Why Do Democrats Want To Keep Americans Locked Into A Bad Medicare Deal?

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With Romney’s pick of fiscal straight-talker Paul Ryan as his running mate he’s ensured that the debate which will dominate the rest of campaign season will be entitlements. Specifically Medicare, for which Rep. Ryan has proposed some controversial reforms.

According to Democrats and their surrogates, Ryan’s plan would be a bad deal for seniors. According to the more rabid of commentators, Ryan’s plan would push senior citizens off a cliff. But in reality, what Ryan has proposed is giving seniors the choice of a better deal.

Currently seniors are locked into a one-size-fits-all Medicare program where the government shapes benefits for everyone. The government rations care. The government controls prices, forcing doctors to accept prices that often have them providing services at a loss to Medicare patients. The government prohibits patients and doctors coming to an arrangement to supplement the Medicare payment with additional revenues.

Put simply, Medicare isn’t unlike a defined benefits pension package, with beneficiaries being guaranteed (for as long as the nation’s tax revenues and debt capacity can sustain it) a certain level of benefits, but being prohibited from accessing anything beyond that. Much like Social Security, which limits how much income beneficiaries can have, Medicare limits how much health care a patient can purchase.

What Ryan’s plan would do is allow senior citizens the option of shifting to a defined contribution plan. If Ryan’s plan passed, those 55 and younger could choose to collect their Medicare benefits in the form of vouchers that would leave them free to make their own health care choices rather than be locked in to government-defined benefits. It would allow them to go above and beyond the scope of their current benefits. It would put the patient, and not Medicare bureaucrats, in the driver’s seat for health care.

That’s exactly the sort of health care reform we need. There is no doubt that Medicare spending must be rationed, because the biggest threat to Medicare as we know it is Medicare as we know it. It is on a fiscally unsustainable path. So the question is, who gets to make those decisions? Should the government begin rationing care under Medicare? Or should we leave that choice up to the individual Medicare beneficiaries?

Rep. Paul Ryan’s plan represents the latter option. Democrats want the former.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • sbark

    From 3 past AMA cheifs……..To date, plans for controlling Medicare costs are primarily based on price controls and rationing. Reducing medical reimbursements to levels near or below the cost of delivering care will inevitably lead to a loss of access to care as doctors, clinics, and hospitals are invariably forced to turn seniors with Medicare away. Price controls sound good to some but they just do not work.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/17/ryan-plan-is-good-deal-for-medicare-beneficiaries/#ixzz23QmSJeQG

    …..basically comes down to Red States view of Trust the people or Trust bigger Govt

  • mikemc1970

    It’s not just Democrats, but all progressive politicians. They care about power not people. Ryan’s plan takes that away from them.

    • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

      So, Mr. 1970, are you a RINO Romney supporter now?

      • mikemc1970

        I’m an anyone but Obama the Marxist supporter.

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          Mr. 1970, just how do you console yourself after such an obvious flip flop.

          • mikemc1970

            With increased personal revenues from the uptick in work. With the sight of the unemployment level dropping like audience attendance levels at the Obama rallies. With 6% estimated growth in the GDP that would come with a Romney victory. With the sight of Americans working, being able to feed their families, and not having to face the humiliation of a government handout.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            OK, Mr. 1970 is now 100% behind the progressive RINO gop candidate.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Well mr. Flipflop… how do you live with yourself knowing you voted for a candidate that was against gay marriage? You must be a BIGOTED HOMOPHOBE!!

          • philgray

            lady, there is only one bigoted party of people who attack people personally, professionally and boycott businesses or anyone who does not agree with thier philosophy,
            Can you say bigoted heterophobe and homosexuals>?
            I can and its true, homosexual supporters and their ilk with call you homophobe as soon as you say your for traditional marriage.
            Hell, the Forum with your were here were queer were in your face tribute to the confused person going to college proves it.
            If anyone I know reads or purchases the Forum realized how stupid that they are….Go keep up online, save your money and donate it to a good cause, like Family Research Council for one…
            Two……….you are the heterophobe and the true bigot out there…

          • two_amber_lamps

            (sigh)

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So, 2 dim bulbs, to you I’m a BIGOTED HOMOPHOBE and to Neiman I’m gay.

            Is it any wonder why nutters crack me up?

          • Onslaught1066

            You’re a self hating bigoted homophobe, what’s so hard to understand.

            And a mother F’ing basement dwelling troll.

            And a grit eating, scum sucking, boot licking, drop kicking gut grinding, nail biting, glue sniffing, scab picking butt scratching egg hatching, sleazy smelly, pepper bellied, dirty, lousy, rotten, stinking, freak.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            And a better man than you could ever dream of being.

          • Onslaught1066

            Dreams from zero’s father?

          • robert108

            You have a rich fantasy life, propagandist; I guess that’s why you lie so much.

          • two_amber_lamps

            You would be correct sir!

          • two_amber_lamps

            MAYBE you need to clarify your position? Do you support gay rights or do you support Obama’s 2008 election platform? Which one is it Bob-o? Did you evolve too?

            So if you believe in gay rights why did you vote for Bamster?

            Set the record straight ol’ boy, which are you? A hypocritical bigot or plodding leftist voting for the democrat equivalent of a RINO who watered down his ideology to chisel independent votes?

            Oh do tell!

          • two_amber_lamps

            As we’ve established you are a bigot and as Neiman has established you are gay…

            Quite the paradox… you are a strange bird with some odd beliefs. How do you resolve these seemingly polar opposite positions? Don’t you think your fellow gays are entitled to marriage? Why do you hate your fellow gays? Is there some sort of barely-concealed self-loathing we detect here? Explain yourself Boob… we dull conservatives are a bit befuddled you.

          • two_amber_lamps

            BTW… do you realize how stupid your premise is?

            You are a RINO because you don’t care for Romney but will vote for him anyways.

            The only “out” in your hypothetical construct is to vote for

            THE SOCIALIST.

            Wow! I’ll show that Romney character by voting for the guy who’s singlehandedly seeking to implode the budget and tear this nation to pieces all for some stupid pursuit of a social justice agenda.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            2 dim bulbs, Mr. 1970 has written that he believes Willard to be a progressive RINO. I was simply attempting to ascertain whether or not he now supports a progressive RINO.

            One of your gop candidates called Willard a Socialist.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Pathetic dodge you jerkoff… anyone here will tell you Mitt’s the lesser of two evils. But your continued support for Comrade Obama proves you support a candidate that was against gay marriage before he was for it… then he was against it, now he’s for it.

            That’s like a full gainer with a half twist.

            And since you voted for him in 2008 you are clearly an anti-gay BIGOT.

            GO eat a Chick fil a sammich,

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            I’m sorry the truth get you all wee wee’d up, 2 dim bulbs.
            Perhaps you’d be better off chatting with Neiman or our Big 180 when they get here.

          • Gary

            The truth: Fast/Furious, Solyndra, Beacon, SunPower, Ener1, adding almost $6trillion to the debt, unemployment over 8%, over 350,000 people losing their jobs and filing for unemployment EVERY WEEK, 45 million on food stamps, 1/3 of the country on some kind of welfare, and the list goes on.
            Since you love the taste of sh*t in your mouth, make sure you vote for the same sh*t sandwich you voted for last time.

          • Wayne

            You forgot to mention all the conflicts Obama got us involved in. Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa… How he is killing inocent civilians and American citizens with drones. That more American solders died in three years under Obama’s watch than 8 years under Bush. That the debt Obama has added, that you mentioned, is far more than the debt of the Iraq war under Bush. These are things that people like LyingBoob had a shit-fit over when Bush was in office but couldn’t care less about with Obama in office. LyingBoob the double standard hypocrite.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Would you like extra pickles on your chicken fried bigot sandwich? How about some Obama waffle-fries? Wash it down with a cold glass of HATER-ade you throwback homophobe…..

          • philgray

            hey dimwit, read what you post, you have such hatred Hitler and his fascists would be proud of you….
            what a bigoted heterophobe on here, tsk tsk

          • Wayne

            Hey Lamps is just throwing LyingBoob’s shit back at him. You don’t understand that?

          • two_amber_lamps

            THANK YOU WAYNE! Someone gets it… :)

          • philgray

            The bigotry of people is quite prevelant here….
            Why cant any person choose where to eat?
            Are you that much of a fascist bigot that you will attack someone for where they eat?
            WOW what a heterophobe, and who needs counseling…

          • two_amber_lamps

            Phil you’re killing me…

            do I always have to put the (sarc)(/sarc) in there so you know when I’m not being serious?

            It’s called using leftist own fascist-speak against them….

          • Wayne

            Obama is the most unqualified, radical president ever. The biggest liar too. His record proves what a mistake his election was. Thanks misinformed/ignorant Democrat voters. The Democrat Party base.

          • mikemc1970

            As you are 100% behind the Marxist golf pro trying-to-be.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So for the record, Mr. 1970, you’re going to vote RINO this November, is that right?

          • mikemc1970

            I’m voting for liberty as you’re voting for tyranny.

          • Gern Blanston

            I’d vote for McCain over this administration. Wait, I did vote McCain over this administration. Not a good chouice the Republicans gave us last time; but superior to what has proven to be an unmitigated disaster in Obama-Biden.

          • Wayne

            For crying out loud, knock it off! We get it. Stupid idiot.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Answer the question Boob-o… were you for Bamster when he was anti-gay marriage?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Yes, 2 dim bulbs, I was. But leave it to you to miss the point. I haven’t flip flopped on my support. Your fellow nutters have. Would you like to read what others have said about Willard and what they have to say now?

          • two_amber_lamps

            So you still support Obama but you still hate the gay marriage agenda?

            BIGOT!!! HOMOPHOBE!!! Go eat a chicken sammich! Bwahaahahahahahahaahahahaaa!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            You believe Willard is a RINO, doncha, 2 dim bulbs?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Lol…. sorry grand inquisitor, I’m askin the questions. So are you a bigot or just a leftist drone? Did you vote for Bamster because he was anti-gay marriage or did you just do as you were told?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            I always thought chatting with a nutter was one way dead end, thanks for validating my suspicion.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Thank you for answering the question below… you admitted you were a bigot and a homophobe. So let’s delve further into that subject. What is it exactly that you hate about the gay agenda and how do you resolve that paradox in relation to your other principally leftist views. What other special interests do you hate? Tell us Bob! How can you both be queer as folk yet be anti-gay marriage? These are the questions we have Boob-o….. Enthrall us with your acumen!

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Faulty premise, please try again, 2 dim bulbs.

          • two_amber_lamps

            You failed to enthrall us. What is it you hate about the gay marriage agenda? Do you hate yourself? Try it again Bob…

          • Barry

            As usual, you thought wrong, you anti American slug.

          • Dave

            He voted for obama because he craves the taste of sh*t in his mouth.

          • two_amber_lamps

            Makes you wonder if Chick fil a could make that a condiment for Bobby’s Chicken Hate Sandwich? If not, I’m sure he’d bring his own… lol!

          • Neiman

            You are wasting your time arguing facts, notice that all you are getting back are juvenile one-liners void of facts and rational arguments. You cannot argue rationally with liberals, it is spitting into the wind. Nice try, but he ain’t tuning you in.

          • mikemc1970

            Even a dog will get tired of chasing its own tail.

          • Neiman

            Not if they are mad or rabid!

          • banjo kid

            That is correct , they have no facts and when confronted with facts they seem to resort to name calling and as you say one liners . I will vote for any one but Obama but it is going to be a easier task now,.

          • Neiman

            I think Ryan being there will encourage many evangelicals to now support Romney. The big key is DO NOT let the Obamanites define Ryan and his Medicare Plan, he and Romney, as they have already started, must aggressively define their own plans.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So Ryan will be leading nutters to vote for evil?
            You do still believe Willard is evil, doncha, Old Pal?

            Will you stand by, like a coward, while this Ayn Rand worshiper leads souls to vote for a false god worshiping evil man?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, would you like to chat about how Ryan has been on the Big Government Payroll most of his life, or that he voted for the auto bail out, or that he voted for TARP or that one of his few private sector jobs was a baloney salesman?

          • Gern Blanston

            Is it relevant to the debate about who is better suited to lead the executive branch of government? If so, how?

  • Emil Kashuntz

    Lets no talk about Mitt’s taxes. Lets spin how the Republicans want to destroy health care.

    • mikemc1970

      Let’s talk about Fast & Furious and why exactly Obama is hiding those documents. Let’s talk about why Obama would be hiding his college records. Let’s talk about why Obama finds it necessary to hide the White House visitors log.

    • robert108

      All your comments are spin, little guy.

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        But a mind to match.

        • Onslaught1066

          and corrupt, don’t forget corrupt.

          ND Supreme Court says so.

    • Wayne

      So Spin Master, Romney’s tax returns are more important to you than the fact that Obama took $750 million from Medicare, pushing Grandma off the cliff. That is how absolutely ridiculous the Democrats have become. Please tell us the spin again about how Democrats want to keep Medicare as it is. Tell us the spin again about how it’s Democrats that care about Grandma. The misinformed and the ignorant (that’s you Spin Master) are the Democrat base now days.

    • Gern Blanston

      Spin away. It would hlp your argument if you could provide facts to back up your argument about Republicans – or Ryan specifically. I am sure if Mitt hadn’t paid his taxes, there’d be plenty of notice from IRS records. If Mitt hasn’t paid his taxes, maybe you could try to explain why the Obama Dept. of Justice or Treasury hasn’t done something about it.

      • Wayne

        All the Spin Master has is lying Democrat spin, nothing else. EvilEmil is so worried about Romney’s taxes but doesn’t care about the 41 people in the Obama administration who hadn’t paid their taxes. So his/hers/its credibility is zero.

    • philgray

      Emil shoomer in chief destroyed it silly….

    • Paul

      You must mean how obama is cutting over $500 billion from Medicare.

      • Wayne

        The actual number is $746 million not $500 million. And of course he rather talk about Romney not releasing 150 years, or whatever the number is, of his tax returns then Obama taking $716 million from Medicare pushing Grandma off the cliff.

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    Say, is this the plan Mittens is backing away from as in:

    Not exactly, according to a set of internal talking points produced by the Romney campaign and obtained by ABC News.

    “Gov. Romney applauds Paul Ryan
    for going in the right direction with his budget,” according to the
    talking points, “and as president he will be putting together his own
    plan for cutting the deficit and putting the budget on a path to
    balance.”

    The memo includes responses to anticipated Obama campaign attacks, key
    messages about Ryan as well as “questions and answers” about the
    Romney-Ryan ticket.

    For example, “Mitt Romney
    and Paul Ryan have different views on some policy areas – like Medicare
    spending, entitlement reform, labor, etc. – do you think those
    differences are going to hurt or help?”

    http://news.yahoo.com/internal-talking-points-romney-push-own-budget-proposal-144740016–abc-news-politics.html

    Ryan was a good pick. He probably will bring back the fringe teastergops and he is a hell of a fund raiser. He needs all that, being the father of Obama care and all.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      It’s funny how, to you, “mainstream” is $1 trillion annual budget deficits and not passing a budget for years on end. “Extreme” is wanting to live within our means and, you know, pass budgets and stuff.

      If that’s being an extremist, I’m extreme.

  • SigFan

    Heaven forbid the government actually allow the citizens to take control of their own health care plans and costs. Why, what would Democrats do if they couldn’t lie about Republicans wanting to take mediscare away from the old people? Oh, I know. They’ll find something else to lie about.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Heaven forbid the government actually allow the citizens to take control of their own health care plans and costs.

      I think that’s what Democrats are afraid of. People getting the idea that they should make their own decisions.

      • SigFan

        I would say they’re afraid that people will find out that they actually can make their own decisions without the nanny-staters “help”.

      • mikemc1970

        Or believing that it’s better for them to make their own decisions.

    • Jamer Morrow

      You forget that government is about stealing from one group and giving to another. That is all the government does.

      • SigFan

        Jamer I know that you as an anarchist believe government in any form is inherently wrong or evil. I don’t agree – if our government were to return to it’s original, constitutionally defined size and scope I think even you would be satisfied. That is what most of us on the conservative side desire and advocate for – and to some degree (yet to be fully determined) that seems to be what Ryan and to a lesser degree Romney want. If they do no more than start us down that path it will be a significant improvement over the nanny-state the Democrats have built – but it won’t happen overnight without such chaos that the country and many people would perish. One step at a time – always trying to move in the right direction is preferable to total collapse.

        • Jamer Morrow

          Maybe its because government never shrinks. North Dakota is a perfect example of a Republican dominated state that still has continuous growth in government. I have little faith because democracy becomes the tyranny of the envious every time it is tried.

          • SigFan

            On that I’ll agree – democracy is a horrid form of government, little better than mob rule. We are meant to be a representative republic and a nation governed by law, not men. We have drifted (or been duped) into something closer to outright mob rule than original intent. The battle is to make people realize that and move us back toward the framers vision. I am not naive enough to think that would be easily accomplished, or that we are guaranteed that it would be successful even if the majority in the country was willing to try. But try we must, otherwise we descend past mob rule into absolute chaos – and that isn’t going to be good for anyone.

          • robert108

            Read up on Calvin Coolidge; his record shows you to be lying.

          • Jamer Morrow

            haha. a hundred years ago. That is funny. Democrats favored small government in the 18th and 19th century. You are hilarious. Lincoln was a Republican and drastically increased government.

          • Onslaught1066

            There was something else Lincoln did but I can’t quite remember what that was…Can you?

          • Jamer Morrow

            Killed millions of Americans. Ignored the Constitution. Put slaves under a system in the South that was not much better than slavery. Enslaved hundreds of thousand to fight his war. Is that what you are talking about? He inflated the currency and increased taxes dramatically. Is that what you are talking about?

          • robert108

            No, the Emancipation Proclamation, which you conveniently try to ignore.

          • Onslaught1066

            Ah! jamer, jamer, so predictable and just as stupid as Boob.

            If Lincoln was such a bad person, why does your lord and savior Dumb-O wish to compare himself favorably to this heinous murderer of yours?

            Riddle me that Flittermouse.

          • Jamer Morrow

            Since I hate Republicans that means I am a democrat? I don’t see the difference between the two. Never have and never will.

          • Onslaught1066

            Didn’t say you were a democrat, I said you were predictable.

            I knew that given free range of choice you would pick the answer that was least obvious and most damaging to America.

            I tend to find that for the most part. pessimistic personalities have a natural affinity for Dumb-O because he taps into and attracts the America haters.

            I am happy to say you did not disappoint.

            au revoir mon ami

          • robert108

            And yet you don’t say that you hate Democrats; why is that?

          • JustRuss

            You didn’t mention the Vampires.

          • Onslaught1066

            Or Zombies (Direct to video)

          • robert108

            So, you try to pull the “hundred years ago” card, then go back 150 years; too funny.

      • robert108

        That is what Democrat govt does.

  • Emil Kashuntz

    What a noble cause, destroy health care for working people and the poor while you line the pockets of the rich. Instead of asking the rich to pay their share gut safety programs for the poor and ask the young to work until 7o. The immoral greed of the Republicans becomes more evident every day, and Rob does what he can to give Satan a hand make life miserable for so many.

    • Neiman

      Only problem is, everything you have said is a lie. There is not the slightest grain of truth.

      It is Obama destroying Medicare to fund Obamacare. Ryan preserves Medicare for those 55 years and older and keeps it as an option for all others as part of their health insurance choices. Ryan saves Medicare, it is Obama destroying Medicare forcing everyone on a socialist system.

      My only fear is that rather than discussing this in a mature way for the good of the country, the Democrats see Romney/Ryan astride the proverbial Third Rail and through extremist demagoguery they will lie and lie and lie so they can stay in power and build Socialist America.

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Old Pal, you see Willard/Petey as a team of Socialistical evil false god worshiping apostates. Why do you defend them so vigorously?
        (if you’d like, I can cut and paste a few of your comments to refresh your memory)

        • Gern Blanston

          Why do you dwell on previous comments? If you think he’s hypocritical for backing Romney now but slaying him in the past, then so be it. Get over it. How about addressing the issues? After all, that’s what the Ryan pick does – it forces a discussion of the central issues of our time: budgets and the economy. Maybe you could enlighten us all on the merits of the Obama-Biden ticket being re-elected. This is a conservative blog, so we are in need of enlightenment on that subject.

          • robert108

            The lying propagandist would rather do anything than have a factual discussion of the issues, which is why he is always trying to change the subject with lying smears and namecalling.

          • Wayne

            Lying Boob does it because he is an idiot who can’t deal in facts.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Waynester, here’s your #2 telling America he hates the bailout because he thinks he has principles but he’s going to vote for it to save his so called principles.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyJBZYz858M&feature=player_embedded#!

            In 25 words or less, tell us how this is exemplary of typical gop principles.

          • Gern Blanston

            …and the President’s position on this topiuc is superior becasue….?

          • Craig

            Why don’t you post the videos of obama promising to cut the deficit in half, reduce the debt and bring unemployment under 8%, you jerkoff.

          • Onslaught1066

            Don’t forget he also promised to lower the sea level.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Hey, Jerry, Gerry, Gheri or Jeri, are you Craig now?

          • Wayne

            This nothing compared to the lies Obama tells every time he opens his mouth. But that doesn’t matter to you just because he’s a Democrat right LyingBoob?

        • robert108

          No facts, just namecalling.

      • Neiman

        For the record,
        1. I have never said anything negative about Rep. Ryan, I have promoted him for President before the campaigns ever started. I have always supported his plans for overhauling entitlements for the good of the country. Those are theabsolute facts about my opinions on Ryan.
        2. I have always attacked Obama for being even a greater evil than anyone else running, a pure Marxist dictator in waiting that must be defeated if we desire to remain free. I also have had to say I cannot vote for Romney on grounds of my faith versus his, which does not imply that I do not believe he will be far better for the country than Comrade-Chairman Obama, it was solely a faith based decision; but I can still passionately defend the Romney/Ryan/Republican/Reagan (RRRR) ticket on pure political grounds, for the good of the nation.
        3. I want you all to notice this absolute, incontestable fact; rather than just saying “Neiman, I disagree with you, I think you are wrong about this and here are the facts a, b. c.. to back it up,” sticking to the subject of the thread and engaging in honest debate, Gay Bob engages in childish threats of his lying copy/pastes, engaging in his usual cheap liberal thuggery, rather than in having an honest, rational exchange of views. That is exactly what we can expect by all liberals in the coming months, cheap, dirty, Chicago style lies and thuggery and NEVER an honest, civil debate on the critical issues of our time. Why? They know they are wrong on every issue and the facts will destroy them. So the politics of personal destruction and cheap, lying thuggery are their only hope for winning. Quite sad really and it demonstrates their passionate hatred for this nation and our people.

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          Why cut and paste instead of writing, Neiman I disagree with you?
          Because it’s more fun to read you disagreeing with yourself.

          Today’s Old Pal:

          I can still passionately defend the Romney/Ryan/Republican/Reagan (RRRR)

          Previous Old Pal:

          …C. For me, I know Romney serves a false God and while he speaks about moral, family values issues today, he has not always upheld them in office. So, for me there is no question, I cannot vote for him [but if you heathen godless evils do, that’s okey dokey by me] and certainly will not vote for Obama, as he is thoroughly evil.

          Reply Just now in reply to Rick Olson 0 Like

          Willard about returning to the Raygun era:

          Look, I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I’m not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.”

          • robert108

            The lying propagandist just keeps lying.

        • chris

          Obama’s policies is far from Marxist, in fact he has been very pro-business so far by continuing policies of the previous administration, like saving major industries and cutting taxes and signing free-trade deals. It’s not for nothing that corporate profits are doing very well right now, even if they’re not hiring like they should. His spending record? It has been relatively low, contrary to conservative claims:

          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/23/facebook-posts/viral-facebook-post-says-barack-obama-has-lowest-s/

          The national debt is unusually high because of the low government revenue and high tax cuts, not major spending increase. Regarding “Obamacare”, the individual mandate part of it was introduced by republicans in the 90s, so regardless if you think it’s a good idea or not, the republicans take the credit.

          Now, let me throw the attack back to you: Which republican president has actually decreased the growth of government and lowered spending?

          • Neiman

            “Too many folks still don’t have a sense that tomorrow will be better
            than today. And so, the question in this election is which way do we
            go?” President Obama asked at a fundraiser in Chicago on Sunday.

            “Do we go forward towards a new vision of an America in which prosperity is shared?” Obama asked. “Or do we go backward to the same policies that got us in the mess in the first place?”

            These inefficiencies manifest themselves as social contradictions in society in the form of class struggle. Under the capitalist mode of production, this struggle materializes between the minority (the bourgeoisie) who own the means of production, and the vast majority of the population (the proletariat) who produce goods and services. Taking the idea that social change occurs because of the struggle between different classes within society who are under contradiction against each other, the Marxist analysis leads to the conclusion that capitalism oppresses the proletariat, which leads to a proletarian revolution.

            Capitalism according to Marxist theory can no longer sustain the
            living standards of the population due to its need to compensate for falling rates of profit by driving down wages, cutting social benefits and pursuing military aggression. The socialist system would succeed capitalism as humanity’s mode of production through workers’ revolution. According to Marxism, especiallly arising from Crisis theory, Socialism is a historical necessity (but not an inevitability).

            In a socialist society private property in the means of production
            would be superseded by co-operative ownership. A socialist economy
            would not base production on the creation of private profits, but would
            instead base production and economic activity on the criteria of
            satisfying human needs — that is, production would be carried out directly for use.

          • chris

            Or maybe, by saying “prosperity is shared”, he was merely referring to teamwork. We as a nation take credit for our collective success or failure. Is this not the definition of patriotism?

          • Neiman

            You know damn well that is not what he is saying or believes. He is a dyed in the wool Marxist, he believes that wealth is evil and that those that produce the most must share equally with those that produce nothing. National health care, federal nannyism, federal control of every part of our lives, even all industry owned or at least totally controlled by the state. Hail, all hail Comrade-Chairman Barak Hussein Chavez!

          • chris

            If he believes wealth is evil, then why does he bail out Big Business and sign free-trade agreements and lower taxes for the rich, just like his predecessor? Which industries are owned by the State that weren’t before? Definitely not banks or the auto industry.

            He’s not proposing National health care, but just a public option. President Clinton tried selling a single-payer system, but it failed. Obamacare is not a single-payer system.

          • Neiman

            The truly evil man NEVER looks or sounds truly evil, he never comes directly at you with something that is recognized as being evil. Yet, in Obama’s and the Democrats power over the State, they absolutely control through federal regulations and stocks most industries in this country. Through taxation they make their profits, and looking at their bank accounts, mostly personal profits. They desperately wanted single payer and once he gets Obamacare up and running, they will move swiftly, forced to of course, to single payer. As I said evil rarely comes at you directly, looking evil, but for anyone but their disciples (liberals), we can see exactly where it is going.

          • Wayne

            He’s drank too much of the kool-aide to know the truth about his lord, Obama.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So, Old Pal, you believe that President Obama is personally getting rich by taking tax dollars and putting into his personal bank account?
            Wait a minute, earlier you wrote that “he [President Obama] believes that wealth is evil”.

            Ya gotta at least try to get your stories straight, Old Pal.
            That is, unless it’s your goal to be viewed as an unhinged nutter.

          • robert108

            obama uses the Democrat circle of corruption to enrich himself; he doles out our tax money to his cronies, who then fund his political efforts and who knows what else under the table?

          • chris

            Taxation and regulation is a fact of life for every country in the world. Name one country that doesn’t have either.

          • Wayne

            So?

          • robert108

            obama believes that all Americans should be under his mandates as the proletariat. He’s just buying off some of them, while punishing the achievements of others, but it all ends up in the same place; with obama’s boot on everybody’s neck.

          • Wayne

            When did Obama lower taxes for the ‘rich’. Liar. And he took over GM and gave a large part of to the unions.

          • chris

            Obama DID lower taxes as part of his economic stimulus and other legislation. The tax rate is lower now than when he first went into office:

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/07/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-he-lowered-taxes-over-past-two-y/

            It’s one of those things your conservative buddies don’t want you to know.

          • robert108

            obama did not lower taxes; that’s just one of his many lies. The tax rates are the same as they have been since President Bush lowered them ten years ago. obama did a phoney baloney “tax credit” scam for anyone who hired someone, which would have cost them far more then any refund they might have gotten, but liar obama could then claim to have “cut taxes” without actually having to do it. In fact, he has introduced many new taxes and restrictive regulations that have driven both jobs and business overseas.

          • chris

            I assume you have link to show.

          • Wayne

            He took maney from ss and gave EVERYONE a one time, what was if? $500? How is that lowering the taxes for the ‘rich’? Typical Democrat liar. That’s how Obama lowered taxes? BS You lying sobs piss me off.

          • chris

            Obama didn’t cut taxes for the “rich” and never claimed that he would, but rather for the middle class. According to politifact he made a tax cut of $400 for every year from his first year in office until 2010. After that he made a 2 percent reduction in payroll taxes that go to Social Security (from 6.2% to 4.2%). It doesn’t sound like a lot but he actually reduced more taxes for the working class than Bush. In addition, he extended Bush’s original tax cuts.

            So, now that you know this, where exactly is your objection?

          • robert108

            The unionists are very rich and powerful, in case you haven’t noticed.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, if President Obama thinks wealth is evil, why is he a wealthy man?

          • robert108

            All commies think that they’re going to be part of the ruling elite, not one of the proletariat. obama gets really cheesed off when he’s treated like everyone else. He’s a walking ego trip.

          • Onslaught1066

            Rules for thee and none for me.

            My what a stupid little troll you are tonight, drugs?

          • Wayne

            No, it’s not the definition of patriotism. Were in the hell did you get that idea? And since when does ‘prosperity is shared’ merely mean teamwork. Another kool-aide drinker. Spin away lefty.

          • chris

            I assume you played in a team sport in high school? No matter if you made the winning goal or not, the whole team wins the game, not just you. Prosperity is in fact shared in a team.

          • robert108

            Ever been on a team? Each team member does his job, so there’s no “sharing” cop out for failure. Collectivism fails; teamwork succeeds; that’s the difference.

          • dakotacyr

            And they do it together for one outcome. They help each other succeed. Obviously, you’ve never been on a team.

          • robert108

            You just keep lying; it’s still not a collective, it’s a team. There is a difference, which you would know if you had ever been on a team.

          • chris

            Each member does his job as part of the bigger whole. you either win as a team or lose as a team. The trophy is shared by the whole team.

          • chris

            I bet “united we stand, divided we fall” was also code word socialism…

          • robert108

            obama’s policies ARE Marxist to the last detail. His class warfare rhetoric is classic Marx, along with his redistribution of income and punishing the achievers.

          • Wayne

            They can’t handle the truth.

          • Wayne

            Just what we need…another idiot. Another starship dreamer. Keep drinking the kool-aide buddy.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Nutters here stopped using the Kool-Aid thing a while ago.
            Just though you should know.

          • Wayne

            Boy you are a clever guy. Idiot.

            I’ve always wondered who these ‘nutters’ are that you keep mentioning. Now I know you mean people like you, kool-aide drinkers.

          • robert108

            The shoe obviously fits, little namecaller, since you’re wearing it.

          • robert108

            BTW, tax rate reductions stimulate the economy; they don’t “cost” anything.

          • chris

            In the end, tax rate reductions is equal to costing money. If you earn 100$ a day and you spend 80$ of it, then you end up with 20$. However if your earnings are lowered to 70$ but you still spend 80$, then you end up owing money even though you haven’t spent more.

          • Bat One

            If your earnings are lowered to $70 but you still spend $80 you are being irresponsible. And if you foist the bill for your irresponsible financial stewardship on your children and their children without ever trying to find a serious and viable solution to the problem, then you ought to be kicked out of office for dereliction of duty.

          • chris

            Republicans as much as Democrats are guilty of such irresponsibility.

      • Neiman

        Cracks me up – do you know how to show how evil liberals are? Challenge them to debate issues on the facts like adults and they are incapable, they prove me right every time, because they refuse to debate issues, it is only lies, personal attacks and cheap liberal thuggery. What a bunch of anti-American crud.

    • robert108

      Pure Marxist dogma. When are you going to start preaching about a violent revolution, little guy?

    • philgray

      At least you acknowledge Satan emil…
      Use this in explaining Shoomer in chief’s choice of a racist, bigoted church for 23 years, baptizing his kids there and considers the Reverend in charge of that church to be a good friend and mentor.
      I would think in your brilliance emil you would admit a racist church like this, promoting xenophobic black hatred speech would be a bit satanic then>?

  • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

    There are a number of good alternative approaches to health-care reform. Obamacare is, of course, not about health-care reform. Obamacare is government power dressed up in a health-care Hallowe’en costume.

    • Wayne

      I agree. Obamacare’s goal is not to decrease the cost of medical care. We need market based solutions to actually reduce the cost of medical care.

  • Jamer Morrow

    Medicare rationing is already starting to happen. Inflation is pushing up prices in healthcare and medicare has a cap it will pay. If you are a doctor you might as well help those that will pay more. Medicare patients will get pushed to the side. Republicans usually make medicare bigger and more costly and I have little faith they will reverse that trend.

  • awfulorv

    What happens when Medicare cannot afford to finish replacing both knees, or both Cataract eye surgeries? That’ll be a Hoot…

    • mikemc1970

      Two words: Death Panels

  • LastBestHope

    FL Seniors will vote for Romney/Ryan. The know it was Obama who took 700 Billion outta Medicare to fund ObamaCare.

    Romney answered critics who say Ryan’s Medicare plan will hurt the ticket’s chances, especially in Florida.

    “There’s only one president that I know of in history that robbed Medicare, $716 billion to pay for a new risky program of his own that we call Obamacare,” Romney said.

    “What Paul Ryan and I have talked about is saving Medicare, is providing people greater choice in Medicare, making sure it’s there for current seniors. No changes, by the way, for current seniors, or those nearing retirement. But looking for young people down the road and saying, “We’re going to give you a bigger choice.” In America, the nature of this country has been giving people more freedom, more choices. That’s how we make Medicare work down the road.”

    This is the part that readers claim was edited out of the broadcast, which if true would be journalistic malpractice

    Ryan added, “My mom is a Medicare senior in Florida. Our point is we need to preserve their benefits, because government made promises to them that they’ve organized their retirements around. In order to make sure we can do that, you must reform it for those of us who are younger. And we think these reforms are good reforms. That have bipartisan origins. They started from the Clinton commission in the late ’90s.”

    Ryan’s plan doesn’t affect those already eligible for Medicare. In fact, one of the conservative criticisms of the plan was that he didn’t give current Medicare recipients the option to choose a private-insurance plan, as younger Americans will get once they become eligible. That’s a pretty newsworthy detail, no?

  • banjo kid

    I think Ryan is the only one who has taken this issue that needs to be addressed and that is the reason they give for dissing him and his ideas , someone has to step up and be counted. The politicians have raided the funds for social security and the medicare for years and now it is time to pay and there is no monies for that so they have to do something to insure future benefits . I am on social security and no matter the out come for me I will vote for the Romney Ryan ticket, it is the only sane thing to do . Any one but Obama and with a straight shooter on the ticket just made it more of a pleasure to vote for the two .

  • Dakotacyr

    As people age they seek security and the total restructuring of Medicare feeds that insecurity. That is why over 70% of the public supports Medicare as it is.

    • robert108

      Whether they support it or not, it’s still going broke.

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