Who Really Gets Rich Off Of Expensive Gasoline?
Exxon’s 2007 tax bill was more than the entire bottom 50% of taxpayers in America.
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Comments
Thank you, Rob!
If the tax is per gallon, why would the government get richer off of expensive gasoline than inexpensive gasoline. Do we drive more when gas is expensive?
Your logic is flawed.
I wonder who gets rich.......hmmmmmm
Poor oil companies....
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
If the tax is per gallon, why would the government get richer off of expensive gasoline than inexpensive gasoline.
Income/payroll/etc taxes.
What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity? I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.
Hawk,
It’s not Rob’s logic that is flawed… it’s your understanding. Those on the Left, including both Democrat candidates for president, have advocated increasing the taxes on oil companies, including a so-called “windfall profits tax” which would NOT be assessed on a per gallon basis.
Incidentally, your verbiage is as flawed as your understanding. Considering the budget deficits roundly complained about by conservatives and (disingenuously) liberals, deficits that would undoubtedly increase with a Democrat win in November, to suggest that the government is “rich” and getting “richer” by raising taxes is rhetorical nonsense.
“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”
It’s not Rob’s logic that is flawed… it’s your understanding. Those on the Left, including both Democrat candidates for president, have advocated increasing the taxes on oil companies, including a so-called “windfall profits tax” which would NOT be assessed on a per gallon basis.
No, Rob is claiming the government is getting rich on a per gallon tax.
Um, gas taxes have not increased recently. Taxes have nothing to do with the fact that the price of gas has more than doubled since Bush took office.
Life is great if you happen to own an oil well these days (like many of Bush’s old buddies in Texas)!
We think we’re paying more for gas, but the truth is that we’re paying more for govt. It’s the social engineering schemes and the entitlements, stupid!
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
The Dems have made govt an entitlement.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Wasn’t old lady Pelosi and her cronies going to “do something” about energy prices?
Here’s a major reason for the increase in the cost of US gasoline: 
More than 60% of our oil consumption is from foreign sources. Isn’t it a bit shocking that our oil production has been steadily declining since 1970, in spite of the continuous discovery of new sources (e.g., ANWR, Gulf of Mexico)?
But blame Bush, WOOF, I’m sure that’s his fault too.
Jimmy.. that all depends on the state you live in. Washington state is the highest gas tax chargin’ state out there and they just announced another increase.
Of course it’s all for the good of the people ... cause that’s what they gov’t says ya know
Washington Tax rate scheduled to increase to 36 cents on July 1, 2007.
Right now I’m paying $3.49 a gallon. My monthly gas bill is more than my morgage
Wasn’t old lady Pelosi and her cronies going to “do something” about energy prices?
Good point. How much has the price of gasoline increased since the Dem congressional “landslide” that promised to “drain the swamp”?
I blame Pelosi.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
I’m still waiting for an explanation from Jimmy for this:
Taxes have nothing to do with the fact that the price of gas has more than doubled since Bush took office.
Explain to us which Bush policies that you think are responsible for this?
As far as I can see your reasoning is Bush was in office, the gas increases occurred, therefore we have cause and effect. That’s pretty much the logic behind this curve too:
By your logic, the world is getting warmer because of the GOPs crackdown on global piracy.
No, Rob is claiming the government is getting rich on a per gallon tax.
The taxes that impact the price of a gallon of fuel are more than just the per gallon state and federal gas tax. There are payroll taxes, income taxes, royalties paid to the government, etc.
All of these things jack up the amount of that per/gallon price which goes to taxes. And yes, those taxes have been going up.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Rob’s recently listened-to songs:
Here’s a major reason for the increase in the cost of US gasoline:
?????
So oil went from $15.67 back in Jan 2002
to $110 because of Prudhoe Bay production?
What was the dollar index at in 2002? Near record high.
What is the dollar index at now? Record low.
Idiot.
Even dumbass bush knows why oil prices are high.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
Gee, Mark D, so you’re going on record as saying that supply and demand have nothing to do with the current cost of gasoline?
Who’s the idiot here?
Not you. I’m pretty sure you need mental help.
As to the issue of the exchange rate of the dollar, try to address this as an adult if you can Mark.
If 100% of US oil consumption were from domestic sources, why would you expect the exchange rate to affect the cost of our gasoline? A rational person, not you, wouldn’t of course.
It’s only the imported oil that the drop in the exchange rate for the dollar affects.
Wasn’t old lady Pelosi and her cronies going to “do something” about energy prices?
Well, we can blame them for failing to address a problem they promised to address.
Seriously. There are many things we could do to mitigate the increase in energy costs within the US. First increase our domestic production, secondly increase our refinery capacity (at $20 billion per refinery plus ecological requirements, this isn’t just a free-enterprise decision), third grow our nuclear electrical energy generation capacity and so forth.
The liberals have been the road block on all of these separate policy issues for decades. That’s a record that’s hard to defend with $3+ dollar/gallon gasoline.
Personally, I don’t mind so much if gas gets expensive as that’s exactly the sort of market force that will influence change toward other energy sources and I’d much rather the market drive that change than politicians doing the bidding of green industry lobbyists.
But, on the flip side, I don’t think we should artificially inflate the price of oil through excessive taxation and restrictions on development.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Rob’s recently listened-to songs:
Increase in oil prices is a result of supply and demand. That’s what I said.
It’s the supply and demand for the USD.
You keep floppin from gasoline to oil.
We don’t get gasoline from Prudhoe Bay.
Have we or do you think we will ever be 100% from domestic sources in anything we consume?
We can’t even finance our homes, corporations or government debt without the help from the governments of China, Saudi Arabia or UAE just to mention a few.
If we drill for more and not address the value of our currency, then they will just lower their production rate to keep the price relative to the value of what it is priced in.
Why don’t you believe commander bush?
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
We can put a limit on how much of the current cost of gasoline is related to the change in the value of the dollar, by the way.
The dollar has shifted in value from about 0.85 dollars/euro to 1.6 dollars/euro. That represents an average (geometric) of 11%/year. Keeping in mind that about 60% of our oil is imported, this means that the devaluation of the dollar has contribute about 7%/year to the increase in the cost of crude oil.
Over the same period, the cost of a barrel of crude have increase from $27/barrel to it’s current $110/barrel. That corresponds to an increase of 26%/year.
The bottom line is the greater majority of the increase in the cost of crude oil is unrelated to the exchange rate for the dollar.
Personally, I don’t mind so much if gas gets expensive as that’s exactly the sort of market force that will influence change toward other energy sources and I’d much rather the market drive that change than politicians doing the bidding of green industry lobbyists.
The problem is that the government is restricting development of domestic sources while mandating non viable energy sources such as ethanol and wind.
What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity? I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.
The problem is that the government is restricting development of domestic sources while mandating non viable energy sources such as ethanol and wind.
Exactly.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Rob’s recently listened-to songs:
The bottom line is the greater majority of the increase in the cost of crude oil is unrelated to the exchange rate for the dollar.
There you go again, Carrick; giving facts in the face of leftie hysteria.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Increase in oil prices is a result of supply and demand. That’s what I said. It’s the supply and demand for the USD.
Two problems here. You are claiming that the increase in the cost of oil (gasoline) is only (giving you lenience “mainly") due to the decrease in the value of the currency. I just showed above that this statement is patently false.
I’ll let others more informed than me comment on it, but it is not my understanding that exchange rates are controlled only by supply and demand. Rather, I thought that domestic monetary policies within for instance the EU had a bigger role to play that strict supply and demand.
You keep floppin from gasoline to oil.
I don’t keep “floppin”, Mark.
If you want to talk about inflationary pressures associated with the exchange rate, it’s a fairer comparison (for your hypothesis) to look at crude oil prices, since they are almost all purchased internationally using US dollars.
Comparing gasoline prices is a bit more complicated because it conflates supply and demand issues such as the increase in demand for gasoline conflated with the decrease in the refinery capacity since 1978.
We can’t even finance our homes, corporations or government debt without the help from the governments of China, Saudi Arabia or UAE just to mention a few.
Talk about being all over the map.
For somebody who talks as much about economics as you do, that was a pretty illiterate description of how a change in productivity would effect OPEC. If they dropped back on their production they would lose market share as well as total revenue. Thus while they might be able to manipulate the market to keep the cost per barrel high (to an extent), they have no incentive to do so: It certainly wouldn’t benefit them, though it would certainly benefit their competitors.If we drill for more and not address the value of our currency, then they will just lower their production rate to keep the price relative to the value of what it is priced in.
Why don’t you believe commander bush?
Trust, but verified.
Oil, like gold and other commodities are used as an inflation hedge.
The dollar has lost 46% since 2002 when it is against the basket of currencies (dollar index)
Dollar Index.......Federal Reserve
The US Dollar Index (USDX) is an index of the United States dollar relative to a basket of foreign currencies. It is a weighted geometric mean of the dollar’s value compared to the Euro (EUR), Japanese yen (JPY), Pound sterling (GBP), Canadian dollar (CAD), Swedish krona (SEK) and Swiss franc (CHF).
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
If they dropped back on their production they would lose market share as well as total revenue
?????
So what happens when OPEC cuts production?
Oil prices go down?
Hmmmmmm.
when they cut production they get to keep more of their product while increasing their revenue due to the increase in price.
I have yet to see a decrease in oil prices when OPEC cuts production.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
Mark,
You’ve developed quite a reputation for braying about the diminished value of the US dollar, although to imply that its even the major cause for the increase in crude oil prices, and gasoline at the pump, is downright silly.
Still, I notice that while you continue to decry the decline of the dollar, you have studiously avoided making any sort of reasonable suggestion on how to address what you obviously consider to be a major economic problem. Is there a reason for your reluctance?
Surely someone as clever and glib as you ought to have some idea what ought to be done to address the decline in the USD. If the value of the dollar is of such a concern, why not explain to the rest of us what actually caused that decline and tell us what policies you think should be implemented to correct the problem.
“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”
So what happens when OPEC cuts production?
Oil prices go down?
Wow woof, you figured out what a international government cartel does.
I’m glad you’re ready to support drilling in the US to somewhat insulate us from this cartel.
True the price might not fall, but at least the money will stay in the US.
What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity? I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.
Mark D: If oil prices are simply about the value of the dollar, why have oil prices plummeted from $111 to $104 in the last two days? Has the dollar gone up?
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Mark D:
Oil, like gold and other commodities are used as an inflation hedge.
So give us a quantitative argument for how hedging on oil affects the long-term cost of a barrel of oil/gallon of gasoline?
Then explain to us how increased demand and reduced global supply of oil/gasoline doesn’t play an important factor in increase in its cost for the consumer.
I would wager you can do neither.
when they cut production they get to keep more of their product while increasing their revenue due to the increase in price.
Speaking of shooting fish in a barrel.
If the price of the product remains static at P and the supply of the commodity from OPEC nations is commensurately reduced from S1 to S2 in oder to keep the global supply of oil fixed, then the change in gross income is:
(S2-S1) * P < 0
A 10% reduction in supply by OPEC nations, with a constant global supply, means they lose 10% of their gross revenues. When you include their fixed costs for maintaining their production facilities, you are probably talking about a loss in net revenues of 20-30% for a 10% cut in supply (assuming again they adjust their supply to keep the cost of oil/gasoline at a fixed value).
As I said, while they could certainly do so, it is is not in their monetary interests to do so.
True the price might not fall, but at least the money will stay in the US.
LOL
Yes BP will make sure of that.
Do ya think haliburton will move their corporate headquarters from Dubai to Alaska? Cool. Keep the money here. What a joke. You still have no clue who the cartel is, do ya....
Batman
When did the fed start lowering rates? When did sec. snow stop issuing 30 year treasuries? (hint march 01)
Please, I thought you said you’ve been in banking for the past 20 years. And you don’t know why our dollar has lost 46% of it’s value?
And now we have the fed and treasury nationalizing the bad debts of the banks. Bad boy batman for not criticizing what the banks are doing to this country and our dollar.
JP Morgan........a share holder of a private corporation called “The Federal Reserve”
Stomps on the shareholders of Bear Stearns
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
Mark shows himself to be one of the tinfoil hatters who believe in conspiracies. It’s the eeeevil Halliburton and the Fed....right.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
So what happens when OPEC cuts production?
Depends on the total supply of oil, not just the OPEC piece, and how the other suppliers respond to the shift in production by OPEC. In an oligarchical system like oil, the OPEC nations would lose revenue, even if they managed to drive the price of oil up.
In any case, to keep our minds from wandering to far, here is your original statement that this discussion came out of:
If we drill for more and not address the value of our currency, then they will just lower their production rate to keep the price relative to the value of what it is priced in.
So you were positing that they drop their supply to offset the increase in e.g. US supply of oil. What would happen in that case is exactly as I described it. They would lose a commensurate percentage of their gross revenues (an even greater percentage of their net revenues, and US oil companies would gain both in gross sells and even more in net revenues.
Bottom line is your scenario is not in the OPEC nations economic interests.
MarkD:
Do ya think haliburton will move their corporate headquarters from Dubai to Alaska? Cool. Keep the money here. What a joke. You still have no clue who the cartel is, do ya....
You’re all over the map again.
If we ever got a cogent discussion from you on anything instead of this word salad you keep serving, I would be amazed.
Bat One:
Surely someone as clever and glib as you ought to have some idea what ought
to be done to address the decline in the USD. If the value of the dollar is
of such a concern, why not explain to the rest of us what actually caused
that decline and tell us what policies you think should be implemented to
correct the problem.
I’d love to see a really clean discussion of this. Don’t expect one from Mark Halliburton-is-coming (twitch) D some how.
I would expect that such a discussion would include issues like domestic monetary policies within the EU for example as well as purely economic factors, like the out performance of the US economy against the EU economy over that period.
Bottom line is your scenario is not in the OPEC nations economic interests.
It also shows an abysmal ignorance of basic market economics.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
r108
Are you that stupid?
carricko
show me where opec has cut production and it resulted in a decrease in oil prices.
when was the last opec cut?
come on carriko..... do your formula and show me when opec cut production.....lost revenue and market share.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
Mark is pretty dense.
I’d love to see a really clean discussion of this. Don’t expect one from Mark Halliburton-is-coming (twitch) D some how.
I would expect that such a discussion would include issues like domestic monetary policies within the EU for example as well as purely economic factors, like the out performance of the US economy against the EU economy over that period.
Certainly the lower interest rates are spearheading recent drops in the dollar. They’re cutting interest rates because of the problem in the credit markets. The credit markets seem to be suffering due to the bubble bursting in the housing market. That seems to be because of problems in the adjustable rate mortgage area which was caused by the Fed raising interest rates relentlessly for several years.
Of course we were due to a business cycle correction, but I suspect when all things are said and done we’ll see that the Fed did us no favors.
What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity? I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.
When did the fed start lowering rates? When did sec. snow stop issuing 30 year treasuries? (hint march 01)
Please, I thought you said you’ve been in banking for the past 20 years. And you don’t know why our dollar has lost 46% of it’s value?
And now we have the fed and treasury nationalizing the bad debts of the banks. Bad boy batman for not criticizing what the banks are doing to this country and our dollar.
Mark,
The question wasn’t whether I know why the dollar has declined. The question was whether you have a clue what should be done about it. Any ill-informed moron can complain about a problem… obviously. But whining about a problem without offering some sort of reasonable solution is a waste of everyone’s time… not to mention your host’s bandwidth.
If you don’t know enough to offer a meaningful policy suggestion, please stop boring everyone with you tedious complaining.
“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”
tw
I’m dense?
Certainly the lower interest rates are spearheading recent drops in the dollar.
was caused by the Fed raising interest rates relentlessly for several years.
Hmmmm. so I wonder what the value of the dollar would be if greenspan hadn’t raised them?
batman
The question was whether you have a clue what should be done about it
uhmmmm let me think..... if the decline in the value of the usd was due to the fed lowering the rate..........then to increase the value of the usd the fed should ____________ the rate.
batman....fill in the blank.
If you need help......ask tw.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
Mark D:
show me where opec has cut production and it resulted in a decrease in oil prices.
when was the last opec cut?
come on carriko..... do your formula and show me when opec cut production.....lost revenue and market share.
This is an intellectually dishonest argument on your part.
I was addressing this comment:
If we drill for more and not address the value of our currency, then they will just lower their production rate to keep the price relative to the value of what it is priced in.
You posited that OPEC would drop production to keep world supplies fixed. If they did so, they clearly would lose money.
You lost that argument, so now you’re trying to substitute another one for it.
The oil industry is a type of economic oligarchy, which is characterized by the high percentage of overhead of capital equipment and operations. If OPEC were to drop their production, without a commensurate increase by other oil producers—this not being the scenario you originally proposed—the resulting increase in the price of oil would not loss the drop in gross and especially net revenues for the OPEC nations.
That’s just standard economics.
*** the resulting increase in the price of oil would not offset the loss the drop in gross and especially net revenues....
r108
Are you that stupid?
Oil is now below $104; what’s your readymade explanation for that? Has the dollar just gone up?
Try an actual explanation instead of commenting on what you obviously don’t know.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Robert108:
Try an actual explanation instead of commenting on what you obviously don’t know.
Based on how he can’t stick to an argument and articulate it, clearly or otherwise, I would suggest he doesn’t know much about this topic.
MarkD:
Please, I thought you said you’ve been in banking for the past 20 years. And you don’t know why our dollar has lost 46% of it’s value?
LOL. Previously you said it was “supply and demand” for the dollar.
Which is it?
uhmmmm let me think..... if the decline in the value of the usd was due to the fed lowering the rate..........then to increase the value of the usd the fed should ____________ the rate.
That’s it??? That’s the best you can do… the best you can come up with? Raise rates while the economy’s slowing? Next, you’ll be suggesting that we should raise taxes too!
So… given a reasonably opportunity to engage in a serious discussion of economic and fiscal policy, you instead to turn to this simplistic drivel, not doubt thinking you’re being clever.
Problem is, Mark, you have a Ferrari vocabulary, powered by a Briggs and Stratton intellect and a learners permit. Twit!
“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”
carriko
I did not lose the argument.
They will cut production relative to the value of the currency it is priced in.
We will never gain market share over opec. the oil cartel (I think TW knows who they are) would rather have taxpayers clear the way with wars, setup shop in countries where oil is plentiful and easy to extract, than to put up with sucking it out of rocks or sand cutting into profits.
Whoa.... I’m goin all over the map here....that is why haliburton has a headquarters in dubai and not the US. Profits.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
r108
I guess you are that stupid.
wow dow down 214......what does it mean? gold down.....what does it mean. stable markets my ass.
what will tomorrow bring?
carriko
Previously you said it was “supply and demand” for the dollar
pay attention.
the value of the dollar decreases when the fed lowers the rate.
the price of oil increases due to the value of the dollar....it takes more dollars for the same amount of oil.
too many dollars. supply and demand
I don’t have a formula for you.
batman
you have a Ferrari vocabulary
LOL
I have never driven a ferrari, but I sure hope they are better than my vockabilary
vrooom vrooom
lower interest rates is what got us into this mess.
up to now we had the luxury of deflecting our inflation to places like china at the expense of our manufacturing base. now it is coming home. no more cheap stuff.
So IMO we have to bite the bullet and concentrate on what the effects of inflation will have on our economy, rather than what effect it will have on the banks and ceo’s. Stop the bailouts.
besides....it’s contained. just a few bad people that took out stupid loans.
Or is this a derivatives market collapse?
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
record profits should equal record taxes....
Taxes have nothing to do with the fact that the price of gas has more than doubled since Bush took office.
Use the magnifying glass more efficiently, and you can see what’s happened to gas prices since the dems took over Congress if you really want to be indignant.
that is why haliburton has a headquarters in dubai and not the US
Profits yes. Perhaps you’d be in favor of a less restrictive tax policy to bring some of those companies back to shore (ie. Ireland).
"Can’t I just eat my waffle....”
-BHO
record profits should equal record taxes....
Why?
“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”
MarkD:
We will never gain market share over opec. the oil cartel (I think TW knows who they are) would rather have taxpayers clear the way with wars, setup shop in countries where oil is plentiful and easy to extract, than to put up with sucking it out of rocks or sand cutting into profits.
I notice how your theory is full of paranoid BS and devoid of anything approaching economically sound reasoning.
Somehow I’m not surprised.
Nonetheless, many of your original claims: why the price of oil is high, whether OPEC has an monetary advantage from cutting oil production, etc is simply wrong, and demonstrably so. That’s why I suppose you have scurried away from them as quickly as you could.
record profits should equal record taxes....
Why? Because to lefties, taxes are an entitlement.
Mark: I see you are trying to change the subject again.
I never said anything about “stable markets"(unless you’re buying and selling horses), so you just made that up. Answer the question, if you can. Why did oil prices drop if the dollar didn’t change? According to your version of reality, oil prices are due to the market price of the dollar, so explain the oil price drop, please, and don’t keep trying to change the subject.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Stop the bailouts.
The only sensible thing you’ve ever said, Mark. I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often.
Let’s stop all the bailouts, and end all the social “safety net” schemes that only enrich the political class and degrade the purchasing power of the dollar for the productive Americans.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
We will never gain market share over opec. the oil cartel (I think TW knows who they are)
I was referring to OPEC bonehead. That’s comprised of governments doing things that private enterprise cannot.
Stop blaming private companies for the actions of governments.
What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity? I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.
Oil is in “a freefall” now(down to less than $102/barrel); the dollar must be “skyrocketing”, eh, Mark?
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
I don’t know why “record profits” should necessarily mean higher taxes.
If you think about it, it isn’t like Exxon is paying these taxes. We are. They’re built into the price of the fuel.
A tax cut for Exxon is a tax cut for us, especially at the pump.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Rob’s recently listened-to songs:
carriko
show me where cuts in production resulted in a lower price in oil.
r1088888
I suggest taking a look at what the dollar settled at.
Oil, gold and other commodities are used as a hedge against inflation.
As I said before, what will tomorrow bring.
If you think forex trade reacts simultaneously with the commodities market, then I feel you should pick up a book on econ 101. Duh
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
If you think forex trade reacts simultaneously with the commodities market, then I feel you should pick up a book on econ 101. Duh
I know better, but you don’t. You just change your rant when you get busted. You have ranted long and loud on this blog about oil prices being about the value of the dollar, but when it doesn’t fit your BS, you change your tune. That’s called intellectual dishonesty.
You did get one thing right, though; let’s stop using taxpayer money to bail people out, on all levels.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
carriko...let me help you out
just a few examples of what cuts in production have accomplished.
Reduction of 1.2 million barrels a day is first in more than two years
Crue oil prices have declined more than 25 percent since mid-July. After the announcement, a barrel of light sweet crude rose 47 cents to $58.97 in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, up from its close Thursday at $58.50.
“If the market doesn’t stabilize, they are going to continue to cut production,” said Phil Flynn, an analyst at Alaron Trading Corp. in Chicago. “Prices from $57 to $60 is an area they are willing to defend.”
Oil prices jump after Opec cuts output
OPEC Cuts May Raise Gas Prices
March 31, 2004
Crude Oil Rises as Saudi Arabia Says OPEC May Increase Cuts
Oct. 19 (Bloomberg)—Oil rose as Saudi Arabian Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said OPEC will reduce the group’s actual production to try to stem a three-month decline in prices and may make additional cuts in December.
so you tell me carrick......
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
so you tell me carrick......
Nothing in your ignorant rant justifies your statement that increased US production won’t change anything. That’s just plain stupid.
You do make a good argument for a supply/demand determination of oil prices, which we have all stated. You insisted that it was all about the value of the dollar, but have now abandoned that ignorant position, apparently.
Please explain the recent fall in oil prices, if you can. I’ll keep asking until you make a valid explanation(hint: supply/demand), or admit you are full of it.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
r108
WTF are you yakin about....you take one day of market trading and that is your model?
hmmmmmm. strange. I hope you don’t invest with that theory.
follow the value of the dollar and the price of oil.
even dubya knows.
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
r108
why did opec cut production?
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
r108
why did opec cut production?
Why did the price of oil plummet for the past two days?
The dollar didn’t go down. Maybe it’s supply and demand, eh? If the US increases production, more supply, and more oil dollars flow into the US. It’s basic econ, but apparently over your head.
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
Mark: Why is the price of oil going down? It doesn’t fit your model; maybe your model is wrong. Hint: it’s supply and demand. Sorry you don’t know that.
Admit your dollar nonsense is wrong; be a man. Of course, your childish namecalling marks you as a child.(pun intended)
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
and if it continues a downward trend, opec will cut production to stabilize the price that is relative to the value of the dollar. The same reason they cut back in 06 and 04........to stem a three-month decline in prices
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
supply and demand.....too many dollars
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
why did opec cut production?
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
MarkD:
and if it continues a downward trend, opec will cut production to stabilize the price that is relative to the value of the dollar. The same reason they cut back in 06 and 04........to stem a three-month decline in prices
They lost money on that venture too. This is obviously only going to work as a short-term maneuver. If they did it long term, other people would develop oil fields that had been shut down (because OPEC for many years had undercut them to the point where it wasn’t economical to keep them running).
Do you have a point left?
supply and demand.....too many dollars
Oversimplified, as is your want. Soaring US demand for goods, relatively slow demand for products in stalled European economies, European economic policies that have kept the Euro artificially high-valued, at the expense of their economies, etc etc.
Generally people who are knowledgeable about the effect of commodities on currency (not Mark D) admit that the high price of oil is driving the dollar down, rather than the other way around.
The world is a more complex place than MarkD wants in some ways, and MarkD understands far less than he allows.
supply and demand.....too many dollars
If that’s true, then why did OPEC cut production?
I’ll ‘splain it one more time to you, boy, then I’m done with your foolish off-topic BS: The price of oil is determined by many market factors, but the bottom line is supply and demand. OPEC is attempting to shore up the price by cutting production, so it’s simple logic that if the US increased production, OPEC would have far less market influence, especially in the US market. Furthermore, more oil revenue would flow to the US; all of this is beyond your understanding, since it’s basic economics.
Begone, fool!
Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.
They lost money on that venture too. This is obviously only going to work as a short-term maneuver.
Yes, they lost so much.......good thing it’s only short term. I would hate to see how much oil would cost if it were long term. lets see $15 in 2002.....
$110 in 2008. is that short or long term?
Hey look at this:
U.S. Crude Oil and Petroleum Products Imports from Saudi Arabia
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
1/2001 = 1,804 cost $22.10
12/2007 = 1,686 cost $91.69
So I guess a 313% increase in revenue while selling less product is..... a loss?
DOE
I forget what my point was.
yes carriko, the dollar has fallen because oil has driven it down and our economy is so robust and other countries want to hold our dollar and that makes the euro artificially high valued.
hmmmmm.
You are right r108......Saudi Arabia has less market influence, they don’t need to sell so much and make mo money. If they cut production any more their oil will last forever.......while we are sucking it out of rocks and sand trying to figure out why it costs so much.
again......what was the dollar worth in 2001, and what is it worth today?
“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08
MarkD,:
I forget what my point was.
I think that happened along time ago.
Just about all commodities decreased in price today.