Say Anything Blog

Clinton slaughtered Christians, and simply let Islamic terrorists get away with minimal prison sentences.  Lefties are constantly whining about “unfair” treatment of terrorists at Gitmo, but don’t protest at this treatment of accused polygamists.  I think the anti-Christian bias is obvious.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

One thing I have not read or heard. How many guns were seized in the operation?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Your Homeland Security $$$
at work.

I read that though there were some hunting rifles discovered they were not seized.

Be aware this is one group of Christians harassing another.

Hear, Hear!

My sentiments exactly, Rob.

Have a very Blackwater day y’all.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

Be aware this is one group of Christians harassing another.

We have a secular government.

Have a very Blackwater day y’all.

Someone needs to explain to boob the difference between “foreign” and “domestic.”

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Some one needs to show rube pictures from New Orleans after the levees broke

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

rbb: I thought you were “rube”!

Trolls. It’s what’s for breakfast!
And then I eat their lunch.

I have a lot of respect for law enforcement, and worked with our county officials when I was on the fire department of my small town years ago. But I reserve the right to have some healthy amount of contempt also should anything like this begin around here.
One thing I noticed working with emergency responders of all sorts was the tendency of most to believe that whatever they wanted in equipment, resources, etc. was always justifiable. The piece of equipment in the picture is the personification of that mindset.

Isn’t better to be prepared than not be prepared at all?
Not saying the tactics were justified, but the rights of the young females were at risk if left alone. Some where, some how, something needed to be done on the behalf of the girls.
You do what you need to do to remove those girls from illegally marrying and being raped by old men, (God almighty only knows who is related to who when they marry them.) They toss young boys out of the cult so not to interfere with the older men’s breeding preference and pick of the litter.

Someone needs to explain to boob the difference between “foreign” and “domestic.”

Thier is a whole hell of a lot that needs to be explained to Rbb.  He won’t listen though.  He only listens to himself.

Go ahead HG, tell me how I am wrong.
I am listening reading.

Ya might wanna ask poof to help you though.
Or B O...he recently found his bonnet.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

See what happens when you give taxpayer money to a bunch of people who never grew tired of playing “cops and robbers?”
They buy fancier toys with other people’s money.

I Posted on this on the reader side.

This makes me very nervous.  Very NOT 4th amendment.

This is a problem, I’m not for polygamy, but talk about your major overkill. 

Wasn’t Waco just about this time of year anyway?  April 19th??  What’s in the water in Texas.  Do we just look for some religious nuts to murder or raid every April???

Wasn’t that the same date as the Oklahoma City Bombing.  What the heck is going on here anyhow.

I’m not happy about this.  Seems like serious overkill.  They can’t find the little girl that called in the complaint.  AND, lots of failies, moms and yes dads have been split up. 

Sure, it’s an abberation, but how bout some common sense.

Seems likes Texas Lacks any. 

Next year, April, Let’s see boys, let’s see who we can blow up this spring.

Doofeses

the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Go ahead HG, tell me how I am wrong.

If you didn’t get it all the other times I and others have pointed it out to you, why the hell would you get it now?

(doing my best Stewie impression)

I didn’t think you could do it.
Thank you for living down to my expectations of you.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

Thank you for living down to my expectations of you.

That was easy since liberals expect little from individuals and everything from government.

Thank you for proving your own point.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

You’re welcome.  Couldn’t have done it without you.

robert108:  Let me expand a little on the point of your post.  I’m not sure that I yet understand what was going on at the compund [hundreds of defense lawyers have volunteered to defend these folks], but as soon as the news broke about the massive Texas show of paramilitary force, all I could think of was Janet Reno and the slaughter at Waco.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

No problem, liberals are always glad to help nutters out of their ditches.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

No problem, liberals are always glad to help nutters out of their ditches.

I don’t consider the Waco massacre to be “help”.

You arrogant elitist.

Typical liberal, always suffering under the delusion that they are “helping” people.  Just keep telling yourself that Rbb.

While I agree the underage and polygamy thing is wrong, I have heard nothing about the polygamists killing anyone.

On the other hand, there has been the unanswered questions of Ruby Ridge and Waco—atrocities in every sense of the word.  If it had been German troops committing such things in WWII, they would have been on the dock at Nuremburg and then hung.

This Unconstitutional militarization of law enforcement is something every American should take clear warning of.  Particularly with respect to how government selects its targets—embittered po’ white folks who cling to their religion and guns.

Seems to be a pattern.

At Ruby Ridge, they shot:

- the family dog
- the young boy, in the back as he ran away and
- mom, through the face, as she held her baby.

In Waco, they:

- gassed, burned, machine-gunned and crushed the men, women and children to save them from molestation.

All on April 19th, the day of Concord and Lexington, the Nazi attack on the Warsaw Ghetto and Waco.

Seems to me an outstanding justification for RPG’s for civilians to level the playing field between a rogue government which seems to enjoy overkill and a beleaguered citizenry.

...for great justice

Typical liberal, always suffering under the delusion that they are “helping” people.

It’s their arrogance.

Just look at who you are responding to. “realitybased"bob. Pure arrogance.

lik, Shhh, Waco was Clinton not Bush.  You trying to confuse Rbb?

In Waco, they:
- gassed, burned, machine-gunned and crushed the men, women and children to save them from molestation.

Not a proud day for the Clinton administration.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Not a proud day for the Clinton administration

Are you saying there is one?

I have yet to see any justification for masked, armored, auto-weapon carrying troops to go against these people. From all indications this was a herd that John Law had no problem with. Other than polygamy. And the under aged crap. Idiots. This is the other, primary, abuse of religion.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

anna, nope, not one day…

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

I am certainly not in favor of Polygamy but had this been a Muslim compound with men with multiple wives nothing at all would have happened to them. No investigation, no arrests, we would not know about it because it would be ignored. Why is that? I mean really, what is the deep down basic answer as to why it would be tolerated. Answer that question and you will have answered why so many people think the war is wrong, Obama is right, and other conundrums.

What a bunch of ass clowns. Its only an apc. How many of you have ever been shot at? You all act like your pro police, but God forbid they do something to protect themselves. This is not the good old days rob, cops are facing armaments and booby traps never dreamed of 20 years ago. The apc worked ,did it not? No one got hurt
the bad guys were intimidated and the cops were protected. BTW this was a cult that was forcing marriage and sex on 12 yr, old girls, not just polygamists.

I am certainly not in favor of Polygamy but had this been a Muslim compound with men with multiple wives nothing at all would have happened to them.

The best point in the debate.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

What a bunch of ass clowns. Its only an apc. How many of you have ever been shot at? You all act like your pro police, but God forbid they do something to protect themselves.

It’s an armored vehicle, apparently armed with a mounted automatic weapon and several heavily-armed cops, storming ac compound of people that offered no resistance and had only a handful of deer rifles.

And by the way, I’m the son of a 20 year law enforcement veteran and spent plenty a wakeless night worrying about my father’s safety.  Please don’t patronize me.

I’m all for cops being safe.  I’m not for police departments being para-military forces.

the bad guys were intimidated and the cops were protected. BTW this was a cult that was forcing marriage and sex on 12 yr, old girls, not just polygamists.

I’m not defending the polygamists even a little bit, and there has got to be a happy medium between “safety” and “armed soldiers.”

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

rob, were you able to find out about the ‘force’ in N O after the levees broke?

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

Hey Rob, that is an ancient apc, Army surplus. There is no mounted weapon because it is not being USED as an assault vehicle. It is being used as a SWAT COVER vehicle. Most all SWAT units use some form of armored protective vehicle. They appear to be armed with H&k
MP-5,s again used by SWAT and military units for room clearing with minimal collateral damage. So you are way off base with your whining. BTW I am not patronizing you hero. I served 26 yrs as a PA Trooper, including SWAT.I also did two combat tours in A-Stan and was glad I had an uparmored HMMV when we cleared compounds. Oh yeah the polygamists had a compound too. BTW I have read your posts regarding your father, including his military performance. He has my upmost respect.

Spike, on closer inspection you’re probably right about the mounted weapon.  But even so, I don’t really care.

Outside of national emergencies when the national guard is properly called up by the state Governor, we have no need for armed troops like this within our borders.

If crime is so bad we need soldiers instead of cops it’s clearly time for us to seek other solutions.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I don’t want to see another incident like when Janet Reno had tots toasted in Waco!

What are you smokin dude
These are sheriffs deputies not soldiers. I take it that you propose elimination of SWAT teams or at the very least SWAT teams only armed with sidearms as they take down crack houses etc. BTW who do you think
are on the front lines against domestic terror attacks? Long before you can field a federal response the local and state police agencies will be responding.
Waco was a violation of posse comitatus, the feds used military advisers and ASSAULT armor.

What are you smokin dude
These are sheriffs deputies not soldiers.

The lines are getting blurry, and that’s the problem.

I’ll agree that certain criminals take special weapons and tactics, but it’s going far beyond that.  Even my little town here in the middle of North Dakota has a SWAT team.

It’s completely unnecessary.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

...this was a cult that was forcing marriage and sex on 12 yr, old girls…

This is, so far, an unproven allegation, and the “star witness” is nowhere to be found.  Most importantly, nobody was doing any shooting at the cops.  This was a gross overreaction, and you know it.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

This was not an overreaction. This was a well financed cult. Cults have been known to violently defend their compounds. The cult refused to cooperate with the police, thus, with the allegations of child abuse/rape
the police had to act. NO feds were involved. The cops reacted properly, nobody was hurt because of the SHOW of force.
When a cult refuses to comply or
cooperate,cops do not have the luxury of hindsight. They do not know if there are firearms or if the allegations are true. That’s what courts are for.

You are using twisted logic my man.

All the gross abuses during the clinton administration were committed by federal agencies.
They are the ones who need checked.

This was not an overreaction. This was a well financed cult. Cults have been known to violently defend their compounds.

Despite your denial, this was a gross overreaction; no guns were involved, except in the hands of the cops.  Despite your false claims, the accused polygamist weren’t armed, and there was no credible intel that said they were.
As someone else has already pointed out, if these had been Muslims, the raid would never have happened.  This is pure hatred of Christians, and you know it.  This was about cops showing off and acting macho.
Those cops terrorized people over an accusation of unlawful behavior.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

SM: You have tried to use a buzzword, “cult” to justify this terrorism, but you are just wrong.

Cops should be enforcing the laws in a Constitutional manner, not terrorizing citizens to show how macho they are.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

If you think these cultists were christian, you are more twisted than I thought. BTW I never claimed the
cultists were armed and how do you know what intel the cops had? Oh yeah, you are one of those remote viewers, thats right!

Some cop must have pissed in your wheaties, maybe took your bag of weed?

I’m not going to speak about this particular instance since I don’t really know the specific details. In general though, I do see the over-militarization and expansion of our police departments troubling and a legitimate concern. I know of a lot of towns where the size of the police force is not justifiable.

That being said, I do feel that certain police departments do indeed require access to vehicles and weapons of this magnitude.

I served 26 yrs as a PA Trooper

Spike, you’ve kind of been an ass throughout your comments, but as a PA resident, thanks for protecting my ass all these years.

Some cop must have pissed in your wheaties, maybe took your bag of weed?

Wrong, but it shows how little you care for the rights of suspects, not to mention people who merely disagree with you.  I don’t think cops should be terrorists.  That response without any evidence of an armed threat was overreaction, and your hatred for people you can label “cultists"(with no evidence of that) shows that you should never be trusted with authority over others.
Cops need to be more moral than the rest of the population, not less.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Well Andrew , if you are from PA. you should know there are few Swat Teams. For instance: In Allegheny Co.
Pittsburgh,PD has a SWAT team and Allegheny Co. PD. has one for the rest of the county.There are no other SWAT teams for all of western PA. , except one (yes 1)and that is PA. State Police, they have one SWAT team assigned for all of western PA.
Most PA. counties have only a handful of PD’s The State Police handle all unpoliced areas.Sometimes there are only 2 patrol cars for a midnight shift, covering an entire county! So where are police oversizing?
The only militarization of police dept. are with the SWAT teams, police are, by nature, paramilitary organizations. SWAT has adapted some military equipment and tactics.
Yes, I have been a little abrasive; perhaps due to frustrations with the blame the cops first crowd and people that do’nt know what they are talking about.
I try to apply reason and facts with my arguments, but if you read the dialog in this post, you can see
the counter arguments are misquoting me, ignoring the facts and stating their own personal biases.
Many people dislike authority and take it personal when cops exercise that authority over them. So they feel better when they criticize cops and call them gestapo, macho, power hungry, militarized etc etc.
I will never convince a closed mind.

Robert108
God help anyone who relies on you for sound judgements or decisions.
Does your mother still dress you in the morning??
Nothing you said makes sense, you take all my statements out of context.
I am immoral because I defend the police on this case?
I HATE the cultist, because I call them such?
These people are mormon outcasts,ex-communicated from the church.They are not Christians. They broke the law, they refused to cooperate with the sheriff, a young girl accused one of the cult members of raping her and now she disappeared! What don’t you understand?

The cult refused to cooperate with the police, thus, with the allegations of child abuse/rape
the police had to act.

Indeed.  Folks that choose to exercise Freedom of Religion.  But my favorite is this:

nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

The police were attempting to prosecute the entire town and entire compound.  This is a witch hunt and these folks are justifiably scared shitless of the same out of control government that brought us Waco and Ruby Ridge.

I will simply quote Thomas Jefferson and make mention that Tim McVeigh had the following on his t-shirt when arrested after OK City:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Judges with unchecked power.  Corrupt police that seek to strip common citizens of their right to bear arms (DC gun ban) via a majority of 9 men with absolute power.  Police with armored vehicles.  Taxation for the purpose of “fairness” not for simple revenues to support the basic role of government as agreed upon by the Constitution.

What exactly does that qualify as?  Sounds kinda tyrannical to me.  Especially when the government makes laws that prohibit the free exercise of religion and use that for justification to deprive these citizens of their life, liberty, and property.

These people are mormon outcasts,ex-communicated from the church.They are not Christians. They broke the law, they refused to cooperate with the sheriff, a young girl accused one of the cult members of raping her and now she disappeared! What don’t you understand?

The important part of freedom of religion is that we defend all forms of religion, not just those that we consider akin to our own.  It really is not about their individual doctrine, but rather about the general principle that we have more to fear from our government than we have to fear from some folks that choose to practice their religious beliefs in some far off compound in Texas.  And the important part of the 5th Amendment is that we recognize that in protecting the innocent, it may also protect the guilty. 

So far, the government has failed to produce any evidence of wrongdoing other than a phone call to authorities and a whole bunch of video footage of women being separated from their children.  And the “cult” wasn’t armed with anything other than a few hunting rifles.  No caches of weapons.  They were absolutely no threat.

The alleged “perp” didn’t even live in the state and the government has already cleared him.

This is about Constitutional principles, not about polygamy.

The cops in DC did not ban guns, the city govt. did.

polygamy and child rape are “freedom of religion”

You sir, are a real loser.

Hey Justinb

I’m so glad you are for freedom of religion, no matter the consequences.
I fervently hope a sect of Wahabbi muslims opens a mosque near you. All the pleasantries that come along with it are yours to enjoy. When a muslim woman suffers genital mutilation or an adulterer gets stoned to death
be there to defend them “in the name of religion” When the caal to prayer blasts from a loudspeaker at 5am , from the minaret, just roll over and say"I know, I know, but its freedom of religion.
The constitution does not give any religion the right
to violate the law. I bet you didn’t whine when the catholic priests were sent to jail for child abuse or was that a violation of their rights also?
Good Lord there are some serious moonbats on this site.

Show me some cases of child rape.  Just start showing me some.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15688264/detail.html

Police are asking residents to submit to voluntary searches in exchange for amnesty under the District’s gun ban. They passed out fliers requesting cooperation on Monday.

The program will begin in a couple of weeks in the Washington Highlands neighborhood of southeast Washington and will later expand to other neighborhoods. Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes.

“Bad idea,” said D.C. School Board member William Lockridge. “I think the people should not open your doors under any circumstances, don’t even crack your door, unless someone has a warrant for your arrest.”

Ron Hampton, of the Black Police Officers Association, said he doesn’t expect many in the community to comply.

“This is one of those communities where the police even have problems getting information about crimes that are going on in the community, so to suggest, now, that the police have enough community capital in their hand that the community is going to cooperate with them, I’m not so sure that’s a good idea,” Hampton said.

If weapons are recovered, they will be tested and destroyed if they are not found to be linked to any other crimes.

We just want to come into your home and take your guns.  We might not even prosecute you for exercising your right to bear arms as long as you voluntarily surrender your Constitutional Rights.

You sir support the government infringing on the rights of individuals simply because you make unsubstantiated allegations about their behavior based on a preconceived religious intolerance.

You ever met any polygamists?  I live in Southern Utah and Arizona and happen to know some.  I see them in the Costco in St. George.  They have their families in tow and simply want to live their lives according to the dictates of their faith.

When the government attacks the Branch Davidians and the FLDS, and the people do not defend the 1st and 5th Amendments, it sets the stage for the next step of government intrusion into people’s rights.

I cannot for one moment imagine that polygamy is worse than abortion.  Yet the government protects the “right to choose” at the expense of murdering the unborn.  There is no Constitutional “right to choose”.  There is a Constitutional 1st Amendment and 5th Amendment though.  Yet no one seems willing to defend people’s rights under it.  Gay Marriage, OK.  Abortion, OK.  Polygamy, not so much.

The constitution does not give any religion the right to violate the law.

You have failed to substantiate any allegations of law breaking so far.  No illegal weapons.  No child rape.  At least not on a scale that is even comparable to the amount of force and police intervention sent in to stop it.

These people are not even “polygamists” because their marriages are not legal.  They are spiritual. 

What is seriously fucked up is that if we assume that any sexual relations with a person under the age of consent constitutes the same crime as what you are alleging the polygamists are doing, the only real evidence that is ever used is the DNA testing of a child conceived while the mother was under age.  Yet consistently, we allow Planned Parenthood to destroy the same evidence on a daily basis without even notifying the parents of the victims of these crimes.  As long as underage women do not get pregnant from a married man… Is that it?  Or is it that underage females having sexual relations with married men is OK so long as they are not forced to?

I am inclined to believe that the age of consent means that any sexual contact with someone under it is a crime.  Why does the government not charge Planned Parenthood with the same kind of obstruction you describe and send police in to seize their records?

I’m so glad you are for freedom of religion, no matter the consequences.

Which crime are you concerned with?  Sexual contact with a person under the age of consent?  Or with the act of plural marriage?

The two are clearly not the same thing.  I support age of consent laws.  And those that are found to be violating them should be prosecuted.  Those that are complicit in allowing it should be prosecuted.  But prosecution needs to be even handed and done without regard to the religious beliefs of the people committing the crime.  That means round up the parents of every child under the age of consent that gets pregnant or caught having sex and question all of her friends and find the criminal.  Whether they are polygamists or simply the 9th grader at your kid’s school.

But I believe that consenting adults should be able to enter into any arrangement they choose with regard to their spiritual beliefs so long as it is not with someone under the age of consent.  These are not technically marriages and I generally do not support calling them marriages.  They are extramarital affairs that are justified because of spiritual beliefs.  You can have sex with anyone you want as long as they consent, whether you do it because you want to get your rocks off or because of your religious beliefs.

But then again, I also support people being able to engage in sexual relations for money too so long as they are above the age of consent and it is voluntary.

dumb fucking yanks dont know what freedom or free speech is. you go on about others look at yourselves and dont preach to others fucking queer cunts.

From all indications one Sheriff and several deputies could have handled this. Instead we have a show of force to terrorize citizens into submission. SM, sorry, I call BS. You don’t sound like a career cop, and damn well don’t sound like PA State Trooper with 26 years in service. Perhaps you would like to explain why these same heavily armed para-military forces refuse to engage the gangs of armed criminals crossing our border in Texas? Why are they only willing to attack people who have shown no sign of being armed, nor had offered any resistance? Cop wannabe morons are the problem.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Oh, and there does appear to be a pintle mounted weapon on that 113.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Ah, ain’t that special?!? gavie’s mommy gave it back its computer privileges.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

what!!!
when people rape 13 yr olds and such, they need to have those things role up on their lawn. they should be afraid.

rob,
i bet your position would be different if these were little boys getting raped and married off at a young age would it not?

misogyny.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

This is a perfect example of why we have the right to bear arms. I really don’t believe there was an anonymous call from a girl named Sarah. It was just used as justification to invade the compound. Otherwise, the police did not have a leg to stand on. I think the whole thing was a sham because someone believed that child abuse was being done and noone was doing anything abou it. If they had a case why weren’t any men arrested and removed from the compound. Instead they removed the children from their families causing great trauma to both. Ask any mother how she would feel if her children were forcibly taken away from her. Now what are they going to do? This case could take years. Are these families to be separated, for heaven knows how long, while the case makes its way through the justice system? Go after the perverts. Don’t do this to the poor, helpless women and children who have been brainwashed and victimized by this cult.

Here we go again:

I hear and understand some of the fear associated with police dressing as “soldiers” but let me tell you all this - that’s protective gear they’re wearing. It’s not a wannabe costume.

If you ever had to go room to room to clear a house with an armed subject inside JUST ONCE you’d understand the need for it - right down to the kevlar helmets - a little better. Trust me, the more the merrier especially when there is a good chance some fool will come out shooting.

That APC is a military cast-off probably bought from surplus. A lot of agencies do that these days.

As for using it to approach that compound - I’d suggest asking the tac officer of that department why they did that. They could have had information we don’t know about. And when you’re the one resposible for planning a raid you don’t discount any information. To do so can be not only a career ender - it can end the lives or cripple officers or the target subjects or innocent civilians.

These things are thought through. They don’t just hitch up their jock straps, throw on the helmenst and say, let’s go git ‘em boys.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Ask any mother how she would feel if her children were forcibly taken away from her.

I wonder how they feel when they get beaten and made to have thier daughters raped at pre-teen ages?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

All the above being said, I still have rationalizing the reason for the raid. A mysterious informant - that they haven’t found yet - says there is child abuse going on.

Families were taken out and children separated from their mothers. Got a problem with that - unless there is a specific allegation. You can’t just round up families and take their kids because you can MAYBE get some information out of them. I think they’re on VERY shaky ground there.

One of the commenters above questioned whether this had as much to do the polygamy as it does alleged child abuse and I have to wonder if that could be part of the case.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Was the informant named Curveball?

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

You can’t just round up families and take their kids because you can MAYBE get some information out of them.

oh, but we can invade iraq because MAYBE they have WMDs? oh, but we can rendition people because MAYBE they are terrorists? it strikes me that y’alls sympathies clearly are with the pedophiles. that has been evidenced repeatedly over the last few years. sad.

i have an idea. now let’s bitch about how muslims treat women! /sarcasm

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

From all indications one Sheriff and several deputies could have handled this.

We know that now, but what did they know prior approaching the compound?
Maybe a thorough investigation prior to the invasion could have deemed the overkill tactics unnecessary, but because they did choose to go in at the time they did, it would have been wrong to risk the lives of any law enforcement officers by not preparing for the unknown behind the compound walls.

Oh, and there does appear to be a pintle mounted weapon on that 113.

2H9.  There is no crew served weopon on that vehicle.  It is a rifle that is being carried by one of the deputies.  You can clearly see the front sight.  But I am sure you will come up with an argument why they mount M-16’s now. If it was a crew served weopon it would be mounted in the front of the vehicle, not in the middle.  You are such a tool. I do not even know why I respond to your stupidity. 

This cult is getting what they deserved.  The police did the raid perfectly.  NO ONE GOT HURT!!  As of the outcome of the raid, I guess we will find out in time. 

If the police attempted to do this by walking up to the compound in a suit and tie, flashing badges, talking sweet, and someone was killed then I am sure Rob would have blogged about how they fucked that up as well.  Seems to me Rob likes to sit back at his computer, nit pick at headlines, blog about them and get off by people like, proof and 2H9, praising his every word and fighting his fights.  Which is very queer.

This cult is getting what they deserved.

While I agree with the tactical approach of the police I completely disgree with that statement. See my piece at the top of the page.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pittsburgh,PD has a SWAT team and Allegheny Co. PD. has one for the rest of the county.There are no other SWAT teams for all of western PA

I’m not too familiar with western PA, I’m from the east. But I wasn’t talking about PA specifically, just in general.

Most PA. counties have only a handful of PD’s The State Police handle all unpoliced areas.Sometimes there are only 2 patrol cars for a midnight shift, covering an entire county! So where are police oversizing?

I agree that some counties need more police. I know of areas that only have one part-time officer. However, if you’ve spent time in the areas surrounding Philadelphia (not Philadelphia itself) there are an over-abundance of local police. Many of these areas are more affluent with little serious crime. Also, if you’ve been to many rural college towns in central PA, you’d see that many have more police than necessary. Especially when you consider that all state schools have their own functioning police departments (not merely security guards). Is it really necessary to have a large local PD within blocks of campus? As a result, town police function more as LCBs. Shouldn’t these resources be going toward counties with extremely small PDs?

Yes, I have been a little abrasive; perhaps due to frustrations with the blame the cops first crowd and people that do’nt know what they are talking about. I try to apply reason and facts with my arguments, but if you read the dialog in this post, you can see the counter arguments are misquoting me, ignoring the facts and stating their own personal biases.

That happens a lot around here. It usually goes both ways, though. I encourage you to stick around. Rob’s got a really great site.

Many people dislike authority and take it personal when cops exercise that authority over them. So they feel better when they criticize cops and call them gestapo, macho, power hungry, militarized etc etc. I will never convince a closed mind.

I don’t think people on this site necessarily have a problem with authority, it’s the abuse of authority that troubles them. Wether or not this specific instance exemplifies this or not, I don’t really want to get in to it. However, there are a lot of corrupt officers and departments. It’s a shame that these bad apples make the jobs of good officers (such as yourself, I assume) more difficult.

Sparkie:

I’m glad to see that you haven’t changed. You don’t think any more clearly than you ever did:

oh, but we can invade iraq because MAYBE they have WMDs?

One anonymous coall from an unidentified saource doesn’t exactly stack up to piles of inltelligence from dozens of countries, does it?

Way to think things through, Sparkles.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

But I wasn’t talking about PA specifically, just in general.

Oops, should be “But I wasn’t talking about PA specifically, just the country in general”.

It is not about having multiple wives.  It is about child rape.  This is a very bad deal anyway you look at it.  Let the investigation play out and see what happens.  If they DID have a legitimate tip they would be out of their minds not to do what they did.  If it turns out to be false then I am sure someone will lose their job.  But I cannot feel sorry for these people.  I guess that is what they get for being part of something so shady.