Say Anything Blog

Barry Bonds has been worse for baseball than the designated hitter.

Amen!

The Pres is a huge baseball fan too.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Barry doesn’t care.

The media has done to Barry what it did to the Duke team. The public has been led by the nose on another witch hunt.

We really haven’t advanced much as human beings in the past 300 years.

Try thinking for yourself.

Nobody likes Barry Bonds

Nobody? Rob, you have fallen into the trap that the lefties usually do when they pretend to speak for everyone.  Personally, I have nothing by respect for Bonds achievements.  Besides no one has proven that he took steroids and a even bigger unanswered question is that no one has proven that steroids improve someones capability to hit bmuch less hit home runs.  Hitting a 95+ mph baseball has as much to do with bat speed as anything which requires quick reflexing muscles and not the bulky muscles usually associated with steroid use.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

Nobody? Rob, you have fallen into the trap that the lefties usually do when they pretend to speak for everyone.  Personally, I have nothing by respect for Bonds achievements.  Besides no one has proven that he took steroids and a even bigger unanswered question is that no one has proven that steroids improve someones capability to hit bmuch less hit home runs.  Hitting a 95+ mph baseball has as much to do with bat speed as anything which requires quick reflexing muscles and not the bulky muscles usually associated with steroid use.

Rob is not talking about conspiracy theories like 9-11 being an inside job by the US Government so we could invade Iraq.  No one ever proved that OJ committed double murder either.  They have leaked grand jury testimony, admissions by BALCO employees, and then you have the simple physical evidence of a dude that weighed 165 when he came into baseball and turned into the guy he is now.

Look, I am a Sun Devil and Barry does a ton for ASU baseball.  Tons of money.  And so on.  Let’s just agree to disagree on whether he took steroids and whether the record is tainted or not.

Barry Bonds is the single greatest player of this lifetime for us.  7 MVP’s.  8 Gold Gloves.  Even without the power numbers, he still would be among the all time greats to ever play the game, but honestly, in my mind, he may be the absolute greatest.  But it doesn’t make him “clean”.  And it doesn’t mean that we should ignore that he is A. A real Asshole B. A horrible teammate and C. Not a real great person either.

Mark McGuire was a second rate defensive player that made his mark with the Long Ball.  Barry was a first ballot hall of famer, gold glove winner, MVP, and incredible player, and he adds this home run record to his resume.  I honestly think he would have been better off to hit 500 and go away quietly than to challenge this record or hit 73.  But this record has brought out all the negatives about Barry as a person and every single person has to weigh his accomplishments, which are many, versus the negatives about him as a person and about the possibility that he cheated. 

BTW, Bush said the biggest mistake he ever made was trading Sammy Sosa.  Sosa has been implicated just as much as Bonds and I wonder if Bush called Sammy when he hit 600?

Baseball sucks dirty feet. It is infested with drugs, and I think it is fixed. The 160 something games they play is about 150 too many, and it is a bothersome waste of time. I find it offensive that they demand from cities payment for new stadiums, even as they already have a stadium.

For that matter I hate football, basketball, bowling, and espically golf. Why these are televised is beyond me.

C.

Nobody? Rob, you have fallen into the trap that the lefties usually do when they pretend to speak for everyone.

It was a joking, unserious line in a rather unserious post.  Lighten up.

Besides no one has proven that he took steroids and a even bigger unanswered question is that no one has proven that steroids improve someones capability to hit bmuch less hit home runs.

If Bonds’ swelling head and sudden switch from “skinny outfielder” to “mountain of muscle” isn’t enough to tell you he’d juicing...I don’t know what to tell you.

And if Sosa’s rise in HR’s isn’t enough to tell you taht it does, in fact, ehlp you hit the ball further again I don’t know what to tell you.

Barry Bonds is an anathema to the game.  I don’t question his talent.  Without juicing he’d still probably be among the best ever.  But he tarnished all of that.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

the president placed a three-minute call to the homerun king early this afternoon.

“The president congratulated him on breaking a great record and noted that Bonds has always been a great hitter,’’ said Tony Snow, White House spokesman. “He said it’s great that Bonds’ son was there for the homer and the hug, and added that he knew what it was like to be the son of a famous father. He also passed on best wishes to the Bonds family.

“Bonds, I’m told, was appreciative,’’ Snow said.

And if Sosa’s rise in HR’s isn’t enough to tell you taht it does, in fact, ehlp you hit the ball further again I don’t know what to tell you.

Hank Aaron’s two best seasons as a power hitter came at ages 37 and 39, respectively. Cal Ripken’s best came the year he turned 38, and Tony Gwynn’s peak home run years came at 37 and 38. Did they use steroids?

Sammy Sosa follows a relatively standard career path. He was a decent power hitter his whole life, and sets a career high with 33 at age 24. He improves on that rate in the next two seasons, and then sees another jolt with 40 in just 124 games at age 27 (in 1996; this projects to 53 over a whole season--his season was cut short that year to injury). He regresses in 1997--also injury-related--but then in 1998 he blossoms into a world-class power hitter with 66, a pace he maintains for the next five years before getting worse with age. There’s nothing remotely unusual about any of this; I don’t understand the steroid allegations.

My favorite Snowline of that exchange was when a “reporter” asked why W did not call last night. “When Bonds broke the record last night the President was asleep, when W hit the office this morning Bonds was asleep”. There is a lesson in there, and it is wasted on the WH Press Corps. What time do they show for work in DC?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

It was a joking, unserious line in a rather unserious post.  Lighten up.

So it was a joke. Haha. Dumb me..  The rest of my post stands.  No one has proven that Bonds used steroids and that steroid use will improve a baseball players hitting.  [Anyone here ever hear of the double-blind test?] So all we have left is conjecture which is a very dangerous and nasty stuff which can be use to sullen ones reputation.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

Woof, not sure what BB’s record is against pitchers that used steroids, but do know that 755 was hit off of Clay Hensley and he was convicted and suspended for using steroids in April of 2005?  On the other hand you have BB that has miraculously been attacked before being convicted for such assertions.  Clay was convicted and suspended and he gets no attention, while Barry gets all of the attention and he hasn’t been afforded America’s “innocent until proven guilty in a court of law” process.  This is just one more huge example of people swallowing the hook, line and sinker that the media dangles in front of them without using facts.

One complaint and proof-point that many Barry haters us is that someone at his age can’t possibly hit this many home runs without juice.  Fact:  he hadn’t hit more than 26 home runs since 2003 in a year.  Another reason people choose to dislike him and believe his guilt is that he is supposedly mean to everyone, including his teammates, other players and fans.  Fact 1:  My wife ran into him on a flight and he was unbelievably nice.  Fact 2:  His speech last night after hitting #756 was very appreciative and supportive of his teammates, friends, fans, family, Hank Aaron, and others.  Barry Bonds has endured the wrath of the media for twenty years and has never liked the attention, seeming to be rude by not answering their pointed questions.  Fact 3:  All Media HATE Barry Bonds for this and chose to take the side that supports his guilt without facts.  Did any of you hear John Kruk and Eric Davis interviewed about BB last night?  He is not hated by all and is actually liked by most.  Remember, believing what you read is not wise in today’s world, as there is lots of bias and facts are rarely used.

In 1993 Barry Bonds’ home run production jumped 35%, signaling the start of his 30 - 49 home runs per year run (Aside from 2001).  Coincidentally and factually the average home run productions for each team in MLB jumper 23% that same year.  Home run production per team has jumped 54% from 1992 to 2006, from 116.8 to 179.5.  Barry is simply one of the best few players to ever play the game, and has played for a long time at this level.  His record is great, but won’t last too long.  Alex Rodriguez has 500 home runs in his first eleven full years, off to the fastest HR pace in history.  Aside from 1997 he had always hit between 35 and 57 home runs each of the years that he played.  He will likely play another ten years and should surpass 800 home runs.

Also, people that work out as religiously as Barry Bonds do get bigger as they age and continue their efforts.  I got bigger and I don’t work out like he does.  During my heaviest moment my face was quite a bit larger.  Did I take steroids to do this or did I just get bigger? 

I hate using Barry Bonds to make a point, but people have to stop believing all that they read.  Granted, journalists’ must follow the mantra “if it bleeds, it leads” and dramatizing contentious topics.

Hank Aaron’s two best seasons as a power hitter came at ages 37 and 39, respectively. Cal Ripken’s best came the year he turned 38, and Tony Gwynn’s peak home run years came at 37 and 38. Did they use steroids?

Barry Bonds single season HR record came when he was 38.  He hadn’t hit more than 26 home runs in a year since he turned 40.  He has just been really good for many years.

Also, testing for steroids didn’t begin in MLB until 2003.  If their use makes players larger, ie:  Ken Caminiti, stopping their use will make players return to their original pre-steroid size.  I would also think that once testing for this banned substance began in 2003 many using players would have stopped, in fear of punishment.  Barry body size not reducing once the steroid testing started tells me that he was not using them.  Can people get larger as they age and work-out four hours a day?  Yes!

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

The rest of my post stands also. Unless the achievement is via the same means as the prior record then it has no basis for claim. When the true down home way of breaking a record is accomplished ... thats when I will stand behind someones athletic achievement. Babe Ruth continues to hold the record.

Any more, American Legion baseball is the best.  I watches a 10 year old Cal Ripken State Tournament.  It was wonderful to watch those little guys giving the game their all.  I’ve also watched the Dream Catchers.  Those players are in wheel chairs, on crutches, and carried by “Buddies”.  Go to http://www.nddreamcatchers.com to learn about them.

I love MLB but the best is right here in Minot.  Who cares about Barry Bonds.  Aaron Blivens can hit the ball make it around the bases.  To watch is amazing.

Unless the achievement is via the same means as the prior record then it has no basis for claim. (...)Babe Ruth continues to hold the record.

Most importantly, Bonds has pleyd under a much stiffer level of competition than either Ruth or Aaron. Baseball is a tougher sport to play right now than it has been at any other time in history.

Ruth never had to face black pitchers (or dark-skinned Latinos, for that matter). Bonds did. Ruth played the majority of his career in a ballpark that favored hitters; Bonds played in ballparks that favored pitchers. Does this put Bonds back into the lead?

No, it means ... it looks like, ain’t no one gonna break Babe Ruth’s record then huh?

I hate using Barry Bonds to make a point, but people have to stop believing all that they read.  Granted, journalists’ must follow the mantra “if it bleeds, it leads” and dramatizing contentious topics.

I teach my kids that you are the company you keep.  So you are out running around with a guy that manufactures and distributes steroids.

But it is the whole world’s fault for thinking the worst about Barry when his personal trainer is arrested and implicated and convicted in a major steroids ring…

Barry is just an innocent victim who chose bad friends… sounds like Tank Johnson, or Michael Vick or Pacman Jones… Is that what you are saying>?

Justin, this is where your guilty by association really falls apart.  As an example, your best friend or a close relative (could be your son) gets picked up for drugs.  Does that make you a druggie too?

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

DocDave: When we associate with people that are engaged in questionable and/or criminal behavior we have allowed the ‘appearance of evil’ to attach itself to us. If Bonds knew any associate was involved with steroids, it was his responsibility to provide visual distance between himself and them or at a minimum, by is close prosimity he appears to be condoning their behavior.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Dave: The point is the circumstances were different, each in his own time and circumtances set a record, and yet that does not diminish Bond’s record or accomplishments. For instance, if I recall correctly Ruth set his record while playing many fewer games and fewer years; and he swatted them out of the bark fueled on hot dogs and beer, not having the advanced training, diet and coaching of future atheletes like Bonds.

Bonds now has more home runs than anyone else, that is a record and a great one; as did Aaron and Ruth in their differing times and circumstances, so each deserves their records without diminishing those having gone before.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

I teach my kids that you are the company you keep.  So you are out running around with a guy that manufactures and distributes steroids.

All of my wife’s friends while in high school were part of the parking lot crowd that smoked pot, drank and experimented with other things.  However, my wife remained friends with them even though she didn’t participate in their illegal activitites.  It is almost our eighteenth anniversary and she has never been drunk.  She can’t even drink carbonated soft drinks.  Are my eighteen years of experiences with her wrong, now that I know that she is guilty of the things that her friends did when in high school? 

Justin, I teach my son in a similar way, but also teach him to consider sources of information before blindly believing things that he hears and reads.  It certainly is a good idea to not hang around the bad element, but all that do aren’t guilty.  Lose your bias, consider other sources of information and research facts and not opinions.  Everyone has an opinion but few have the facts.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

Bonds now has more home runs than anyone else, that is a record and a great one; as did Aaron and Ruth in their differing times and circumstances, so each deserves their records without diminishing those having gone before.

Neiman has hit the nail on the head.  It is time to accept this and move on.  However, there will always be those that are never happy and need to constantly complain about something.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

KurtP: Don’t exceptions prove rules?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Look, I am not a professional athlete.  I am not a public figure.  I don’t have a public image that must be protected.  I don’t have agents and handlers and personal trainers.  And I am not chasing one of the most hallowed records in all of sports.  If I was a Congressman and my biggest campaign contributor and closest personal friend got arrested and convicted of fraud and bribery, maybe that doesn’t make me guilty.  I may not be convicted or even charged.  Even if there is evidence, there might not be enough for a conviction.  But it damned sure might cost me an election.  And probably is sufficient that it should.  What you are arguing is that we should ignore that his trainer was convicted of distributing steroids.

Again, as we have discussed here many times--criminal conviction, criminal guilt and government actions are far different from the ramifications for your decisions.  Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.  Innocent until proven guilty (criminal) does not mean that nothing happened and you didn’t do anything wrong.  It means that there might not be ***enough*** evidence for conviction.  Should the government forcibly remove him from baseball and arrest him?  See, that is a different burden of proof.  OJ didn’t get convicted of double murder.  Different standard of evidence.  But he did lose a civil case and further, he lost very badly in the case of public opinion.

Bonds made some very poor choices and had some very poor acquaintances.  That does not rise to the standard of criminal conviction (yet).  It has not risen to the standard or had enough evidence to warrant a suspension from baseball (yet).  It has risen to the level of a Grand Jury subpoena and the leaked testimony of that is very damning.  Does it rise to the level of a Congressional Subpoena and special investigation?  And though it does not rise to conviction at any of these levels, it does rise to the level that Bonds is at very least implicated in these things and the public has every right to make assumptions about him.  He may be innocent and may be wrongly accused and so may Michael Vick, but don’t start saying that we shouldn’t have questions and issues and they ARE BECAUSE OF BARRY’s BEHAVIOR, not a societal bias or persecution or anything of the sort.  He chose to associate with Conti and Balco.  And Sheffield and Giambi. 

And Pete Rose didn’t bet on baseball either.  I have never equated Bonds to Rose and am not now.  Even if he did juice, he never got caught.  He has yet to “break the rules” of baseball.  It was not even illegal until 4 years ago.  But he made some very bad choices and some very bad associates and his name deserves to be tarnished or at very least smudged by his own choices.

Yeah!  Years after high school I learned some friends I hadn’t expected did drugs.  I didn’t do drugs, but the rule of “guilt by assoiciation” means that I have been wrong all of these years and actually did drugs, right?  I need to rethink my life under these new rules.  Ha ha ha.

Great comments Neiman.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

Barry Bonds is the single greatest player of this lifetime for us.  7 MVP’s.  8 Gold Gloves.  Even without the power numbers, he still would be among the all time greats to ever play the game, but honestly, in my mind, he may be the absolute greatest…

Barry was a first ballot hall of famer, gold glove winner, MVP, and incredible player, and he adds this home run record to his resume.  I honestly think he would have been better off to hit 500 and go away quietly than to challenge this record or hit 73.  But this record has brought out all the negatives about Barry as a person and every single person has to weigh his accomplishments, which are many, versus the negatives about him as a person and about the possibility that he cheated. 

I was pretty clear.  The allegations do not diminish how great he is.  But his personal and public issues diminish how the public views his achievements.  He has built a very ***unsympathetic*** public persona.  People (and not all but certainly many) root against him. 

I have personally watched him hit a home run in Pac-Bell at the time into McCovey Cove with my oldest son.  I told him at the time that he was witnessing the greatest player he will probably ever see in his lifetime.  I stand by that. 

But this should certainly be a lesson about the company that you keep.  What if he never was associated with Balco or Conti?  He made the choice to be.  Maybe he was ignorant and didn’t know what his trainer did on the side or what Conti did.  You don’t hear these negatives about Griffey, JR.  And it is because he chooses his associates better, is far more likable, and makes much better decisions.  And that is kinda the lesson in it.

BTW, same son, got to see A-Rod play against Seattle the year after he left them to go to the Rangers.  I just think guys like JR and A-Rod are so much more engaging and likable than Bonds.  I have got to see Maddox and Glavine and Randy Johnson and Bonds and A-Rod and Schilling--some of this generation’s greats play the game, live, in person, in multiple MLB stadiums.  Bonds and Johnson are by far the least likable athlete superstars of baseball.  And it hurts them.  Why deny it?  Why try to make them into likable guys?  They are who they are.

Justin, Barry’s name is tarnished.  There is no undoing that. 

What you are arguing is that we should ignore that his trainer was convicted of distributing steroids.

He broke the record and it will be broken again.  There is often contention surrounding records as they close-in on being broken.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

But agree.  Get over it.  He is the king now.

But Selig and Aaron and so many others sound so less than thrilled with the whole thing. 

Either it is because they think he cheated or they just think he is a dick.  Either way, that kinda says something.

The stacks of information on both sides of this argument aren’t convicing enough for me to do this.

Uh, you mean there are stacks saying he didn’t do it?  Please let me know what those stacks are.

You mean like Grand Jury testimony should be sealed and was illegally leaked.  OK.  Conti and Anderson are liars.  OK.  They are criminals.  OK.  Bonds never failed a drug test.  OK.

Is that the evidence that constitutes your “stack”?

But Selig and Aaron and so many others sound so less than thrilled with the whole thing. 

Either it is because they think he cheated or they just think he is a dick.  Either way, that kinda says something.

Have you ever heard a thrilled Selig?  I think not.  Should Aaron sound thrilled after having his record broken?  Again, thrilled wouldn’t be the word that fits.  However, Aaron did was very supportive and congratulatory.

My Dad doesn’t sound thrilled when talking about me.  Should I read into the tone I project on him when considering a suitable response?  As thrilled as I can be about certain occurences, I temper my emotions and probably never act thrilled.  This is my personality.  Selig and Aaron are entitled to theirs too.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

Selig sounded thrilled when he grabbed the mike and announced that he was suspending play in the 12th during the All-star game.  Now that is “thrilled” for him. 

Come to think of it, he pretty much has one emotion.  “Thrilled”.  It is just like “depressed” or “angry” or “sad”. 

Point taken.

Too funny.  I agree whole-heartedly.

Do I just display one emotion no matter how I feel?  I need to re-evaluate this after your insightful observation of all one of Bud’s displayed emotions.

Have a nice night.

Kurt
http://considercommonsense.com

No Neiman, not really. Bonds may have more but Babe Ruth did it better. Those are completely different records. To beat the all time record you have to hit more HR’s in the same amount of games as Babe Ruth.
There has to be a specific standard for any record to be based on in order to be broken.

Anna; We are not in disagreement, while I may not have been clear, I agree with you!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Yes, I do agree that all the so called record holders played under different circumstances and it will continue to be different as time goes on. Therefore, it is the fault of the MLB organization for failing to set some type of basis. Until then, there will always be a disclaimer on someones record and that is not fair to any of the athletes.

I think you have to compare players within their own era as a starting point.  Within this era alone, there are Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, A-Rod, Jr… Bonds is surely better for longer than all of the above, but A-Rod and Jr are almost duplicating if not ahead of his pace.  When Ruth played, there were no contemperaries.  He was so far ahead of the rest of the world.  In the history of the game, up until 2000, 60hrs was unheard of in a season.  Since then Sosa, Mac and Bonds have hit 65 or more in a season.  That is an important distinction.

So Home Runs are not the true measure of Bonds’ greatness, though these will be his lasting legacy because it is such hallowed ground to pass 755.  He was a 30-40 steals a year guy.  200 walks in a season.  Gold Gloves.  MVP’s.  In 1990, he stole 52 freakin’ bases.  He has over 500 steals.  And the walks numbers are astronomical.  These accomplishments distinguish Bonds more in my mind than the HR.  He may be the greatest combination of a baseball player ever.

But that said, the HR record needs to be kept in context.  How can we compare Elway and Marino’s numbers to Unitas?  The eras were so different.  Or Manning to Unitas?  Same team… different eras… both hall of famers… both among the best ever QB’s.  How do we compare?

Bonds, there is no comparison.  Bonds distinguishes himself with other records.  Roids don’t help you steal 52 bases or win gold gloves.  And maybe age is why he isn’t thought of for the MVPs and Gold Gloves and Steals anymore, or maybe it is his ginormous head and possibly bigger ego.  But like I said, I think the HR record is at very least tarnished, but his legacy as the greatest all around player ever cannot be diminished by an asterisk.

Over the course of Barry’s career I don’t think of him solely as a home run hitter, as he hit more than 49 home runs only one year in his career (2001 with 73).  The other players that Justin referred to were single-dimensional home-run hitters.  Barry won seven MVP awards and in my mind should have won the year the his teammate, Jeff Kent, won it also.  No one else has won more than three of these things.

Justin comments about eras being different between Ruth, Aaron and Bonds is telling.  They are all different.  Hank had to go through things that The Babe and Barry didn’t have to go through.  However, Barry went through things that neither of the other two had to endure.  Babe set the pave early on and I am sure had challenges.

Pitching has changed very dramatically, ie:  mound height, physical abilities, but the battery of pitchers used in any one game has caused the largest difference in my mind, making hitting dramatically more difficult.  Thirty years ago it was common to see complete games pitched by one player.  Mark (The Bird) Fidrych pitched 24 complete games his rookie season and won 19 of them.  Nolan Ryan pitched 222 complete games over his career, weighted heavily between 1972 and 1979.  Roger Clemens has pitched 118 complete games during his career, but only 29 since 1993.  It is very common for four or five pitchers on each team to pitch to opposing players.  This means that the batters will face the starting pitcher two or three times and then face new pitchers for each additional at bat during a game.  There is not the luxury of using previous batting experiences during a game to prepare for the next at bat.

Chasing and breaking records is one of the components that makes baseball so great for kids.  Everyone has their favorite players so there will always be controversies when records are broken.  This will happen until the end of time.  The era component may make the numbers not completely comparible, but it is also part of the fun of the game for kids, and apparently adults.

Play ball....

The era component may make the numbers not completely comparible, but it is also part of the fun of the game for kids, and apparently adults.

Baseball is a thinking man’s and a number man’s game.  It isn’t particullarly exciting.  Games tend to be long and drawn out.  But you can chew on numbers and matchups and righty-lefty versus bringing in the specialist and hit and runs and switch hitters and ERA’s and so on.

It really isn’t the same game now.  Old school games that you refer to were decided 2-1 and 3-2 so there were fewer runs scored than today.  That is counterintuitive to your argument, but still point taken.  How many left handed specialists would come in for one batter in the 1960’s?  Different game.

I am a newer baseball fan because I am younger and my two favorite teams are expansion teams that came about in my teens and twenties--The Rocks and the D-backs.  I love interleague play and the long ball.  I like an occasional pitcher’s duel, but I like 12-8 games too.  Bonds is the best of this era by far and maybe the best all time, I just don’t think the HR record is as big of a deal to indicate his greatness.  Lots of other things do more for me than his HR total.

Lots of other things do more for me than his HR total.

I couldn’t agree more. 

That is counterintuitive to your argument, but still point taken.

My point was only one sided, as I was referring to how the defensive advantages have grown and not mentioned the offensive imporvements, ie:  larger, more athletic, better conditioned, and stronger players, baseball composition, marketing realizing that their newer audience wants to see the long ball and adjusting parks for franchise players (even though this really doesn’t mean much anymore).

I am 46 and appreciate both old and new games.  However, I would agree that a large scoring game is much more exciting.  I have been to my share of pitchers duels and those offered little excitement.  However, I miss the games played when Ricky Henderson first joined the A’s.  A walk was as good as a triple for him.  He really intimmidated the pitchers and thus created opportunities for him and the batters while he was on base.

You are right that baseball is a thining man’s game.  It is too often overlooked by others that aren’t willing to devote the needed time to understand it completely.

It is also my son’s favorite sport.  It is great to see my excitement pass on to the next generation.  I grew up in the bay Area and now live in the San Diego area.

Great comments Justin.