the vegetable opines:

if there were no idiot soldier boys, there would have been no WWII.

Oh my. No only did George Orwell and Rudyard Kipling know this ignorant git and its kind before this one’s birth, so too did John Stuart Mill:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Fortunately for av‘s liberty, there are a lot of better men about.

My only loyalties are to people who, and causes which, strive to make the world a better place.

Were not Churchill and Roosevelt trying to do precisely this: make the world a better place?

And did they not succeed?

meanwhile anydakota (another member of the SayAnything pigeon shit platoon joins the fray with:

Hey righties, where’s your outrage at your fellow rightie Drudge for endangering the troops in Afghanistan. You all talk big when a democrat does something but stay stunningly silent when one of your own, namely Drudge outs and officer and endangers the troops. So much for patriotism for the right.

Just how has Drudge endangered American troops in Afghanistan?

The Anorexic vegetable and the reality impaired one are seemingly infatuated with the number of posts other people have, thus insuring that their own posts are completely content free!

What’s the difference between the mental activity of rbb, Anarchist vegetarian and roadkill?

No, seriously… what’s the difference ??

realitydenyingboob: defending the indefensible daily, twice on sundays.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.

…

While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

Sally,

Now there’s a thought. In Man without a Country, the early precursor to AV, a man of education and means who cursed America, was condemned to sail forever on US ships, never to see, much less set foot on American soil for the rest of his days.

However, that would be prohibitively expensive and interfer with the Navy troops who are actually doing their jobs.

I would think that those who refuse to pick up a rifle can still serve their country, much as in the same way the Italian troops were encouraged to engage the British in North Africa (by wedging them between the Brits and the German troops thus making sure the Italians kept moving forward)

or how the Red Army cleared German minefields — by sending waves of unarmed Muzhiks ahead of their tanks.

Assuming the Smellyhippy Brigades were used for point-walking or mine-clearing purposes, it would be vital that they wear a distinctive uniform to avoid confusion with Americans — say Tie-dye pattern uniforms or scarves and Dead-Head t-shirts.

Of course, they would be granted Relaxed Grooming Standards, aside from delousing, and allowed to keep long hair and beards — even the women.

That is an excellent question to put before the r-Gumby who in 17 or so months is posting at the rate of 959 per month.

…yet you call me a statist? Funny.

Nobody wants to be communist to be one of the proletariat. Like you, they all think they will be one of the ruling elite, controlling the slaves. Your delusion.

Saddly Ken, the “sophistry” isn’t mine. I read it in a book. Yes, there are other books that aren’t bibles, ya know, even some true books. Some of them even contain “facts”. You should try reading some of them sometime.

The vegetable discounts a better man on the basis of the better man having more posts here…

Well now, in the slightly less than 13 months the Vegetable has been posting here he’s posted at a rate of ~53/month. In the slightly more than 15 months I’ve been here I’ve posted at a rate of ~46/month. Which by the reasoning above makes me more credible.

So how do you hold down a job, vegetable?

Hey righties, where’s your outrage at your fellow rightie Drudge for endangering the troops in Afghanistan

Drudge is not a Republican in any case…. he describes himself as an “independent populist”.

If people in these countries had enough individuality, courage, and morality

You’re joking of course. Since when in the HELL would you know anything about courage.

“I am an engineer, highly educated and have a keen interest in history.”

You have a keen interest in picking debris from you colon.

My Grandfather was an engineer, highly educated and lived history. He was at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th 1941.

You don’t just live on another planet, you live in another galaxy. If not for him and his fellow servicemen a different star system would be the only place you could enjoy the freedoms you do today.

Gee..if only there were no wars…and I could sit at home and play with my erector set…and my mommy and daddy would sing me to sleep…

You are absolutely nauseating.

Fortunately for av‘s liberty, there are a lot of better men about. — Rodney Graves

Yep, there are, but you and your bloodthirsty kind will never be among that group.

pparets, during the bigger slave revolts, it is the soldier-boys who are called in to crush them.

Gang, AV:TFR has told us repeatedly, over and over, that it hates America, it hates freedom for the individual, that no person has the right to own anything, not even themselves, that all is the property of the State, that all laws are evil, that America is evil, that anyone who refuses to submit to the State is evil. So why y’all wasting all this effort on a teenybopper?

lestupid, go peddle your submission to Islam dhimmitude somewhere else. Ain’t no one here buying it.

your only examples invlove soldiers countering soldiers. That only reinforces my points. We’d be better off with none.

AV,

You’ve made no bones about your wish to de-militarize the US and the West. But I wonder if you would explain how you propose to disarm the Islamists who are, from Mindanao, to the Malay Peninsula, to Indonesia, Thailand, Western China, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Algeria, Chechnya, Russia, Europe, South America, Central America, and the US, killing those who they regard as enemies, or merely troublesome innocent bystanders.

I’d end up fragging “superior” officers (superior my ass), and making the world a better place.

So, when you murder, it “makes the world a better place”, AV? You are leftie hypocrisy personified.

How ever I also believe in conscription for both men and women and cowards like AV. — laydownSally

Conscription wouldn’t work for me. I’d end up fragging “superior” officers (superior my ass), and making the world a better place.
By the way laydownSally, you’re examples of Myanmar and North Korea prove my point. If people in these countries had enough individuality, courage, and morality to not join the armed forces, but maybe form a decent revolutionary militia, no one in these countries would live under tyranny.

Move_Zig: Same to you too, if enough people had some individuality, morality, and courage then there wouldn’t have been enough idiots to fill out any army in WWII. German, Japanese, Soviet, or American.

pparet: I am an engineer, highly educated and have a keen interest in history.

Soldiers, like any other force, may serve for good or ill: axis soldiers killed and oppressed, while allied soldiers liberated. — pparets

That is just plain ignorant. Firebombing of Tokyo, in one raid alone, 120,000 civilians murdered, yes women and children. Firebombing of Dresden, upto 80,000 murdered. Nuclear attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, another 200,000 murdered.

These were all civilians. This is just four attacks. The massacring of civilians, from the air, happened daily, for years, throughout WWII. How many were murdered by us, the “good guys”? One million? Thank Christ the Nazis performed even worse crimes (the Holocaust) or else we could not even pretend to be the good guys.

“Liberated”?! Conservatives tend not to have any understanding of morality, hence why I consider them primitive.

One USAF officer noted that if our side lost, they would be the ones attending a war-crimes tribunal, not the Nazi leaders.

That’s a good place to start Ken. Then you could move on to read “History for Pro’s” a little later on. Then maybe, if you reach my level of awesomeness, and you are sufficiently skeptical and you want evidence, “History for Anarchists” is the best.

That’s easy proof…

A Raven still finds something intersting about the roadkill.

And yet it will continue to spew its socialist horseshit. Why? Because this is the only human based blog it is not banned from. All the real human beings on the internet have told it to fuck off, and banned its multiple, spam-spewing IPs.

Using the current situation as an example:

The Islamic Jihadists want freedom from the west, from us, want infidels out of their holy lands, want to negotiate and trade with us on their terms. We have been meddling in the Middle-East for a hundred years.

They respond to perceived interference and oppression with violence. We see this violence and respond with violence of our own. Primitive people without wisdom, like conservatives and fundamentalists from both sides, for example, only suggest actions that increase ill-will and violence. You are part of the problem pparets, and then suggest I lack wisdom? Too funny.

We are the ones with the most power, we could easily smite them from the planet if we so choose, it is up to us to take a lead in sorting this out. Every time we respond with violence we make the situation worse.

The People’s History of the United States is better.

The Islamic Jihadists want freedom from the west.

Unadulterated horse crap! They want the death of the West and all the world to become Muslim so the Mahdi can return. Good Lord, do some studying on the subject of Islam will you? Your ignorance about Islam is appalling and dangerous in the extreme!

Also, considering that Christians have been there many centuries longer and the Jews millennia, why would Islam have any more right to the Middle East than Christians and Jews?

They respond to perceived interference and oppression with violence.

Good Lord, surely no one can be that ignorant! They are in a global war for the world dominance of Islam, they are the agressors in every epsiode of violence in the Middle East, all of them, period! Perceived violence, they are the instigators of all the violence.

We are the ones with the most power, we could easily smite them from the planet if we so choose.

Your ignorance or willful stupidity is incredible! Militant, murderous Islam is in all the world, unless we were willing to bomb the freaking world, the best we can do is kill the bastards when they raise their heads. It is like that game where kids smack some animal that pops up, when we see a murderous Muslim, sure kill them, but we are incapable of smiting all of them.

Okay, I will admit that this is not an argument based on logic, but one based on moral authority and gut reaction. How very un-Conservative of me.

Anarchist Vegetarian: As a student of history, you are no doubt aware of the aggressive nature of Islam

Well dang — I agree with PP for once. Good point.

I support our troops. I support our youth…

Blah, blah, blah…

I recognize that it is a city’s right to self-govern and make decisions to best reflect the vision for the community; Berkeley can make just such a decision by zoning where military recruiting offices can be within the city.

Quoting Medea Benjamin in support of Medea Benjamin has all the intellectual vitality of a nap.

You’ll learn stuff ya didn’t know before.

The same would be true for “The Little Engine That Could” or “The Cat in the Hat”.

pparets, if there were no idiot soldier boys, there would have been no WWII. Dumbass.

Yes, just imagine a world without wars, hold hands, and pet your unicorn.

That should solve it.

Anarchist Vegetarian: As a student of history, you are no doubt aware of the aggressive nature of Islam which, in the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries, swept westward across North Africa and northward into Spain, committing the most unspeakable atrocities against those who refused to embrace Islam – all well before the Crusades. Later, they repeated the same violent conquests in the east, terrorizing as far as India, the Balkans and up the Danube Valley.

Please, please don’t use the Haves/Have-nots argument where Islamic jihad is concerned. Koran demands nothing less than world-wide conquest in the name of Allah and the establishment of a global Caliphate. “Death To The Infidel!”

Do yourself a favor and visit http://www.gatesofvienna.com

Ken, Churchill was a hawk. He got (un)lucky with his guess about Hitler’s ambitions. He wasn’t so much out to make the world a better place, rather he was out to put Britain, his empire, in a better position. He got increasingly dejected, as he was sidelined by Stalin and Roosevelt, as he realised that Britain would no longer be a global superpower after the end of WWII.

FDR, well, again, he was out for his own country. During WWII, especially after ’43 when it was clear those pesky pinko-commies would defeat Hitler single-handedly, he and Stalin drew up what their spheres of influence would be after the end of the war. Sure, he probably believed that what’s best for him, and for America, is the best for the world, but doesn’t every politician or tyrant?

And did they not succeed? — Ken McCracken

Maybe. Could someone else have done a better job? Of course.

Anarchist Vegetarian:

I see from one of your above comments that you’re anti-soldier. Like Hotel said, you’ve stated in the past that you’re also anti-police.

Oh, and by the way….the Orwell quote is my favorite quote of all time. Know why? Becuase between the job I have now and my 7 years in the military you hate and the career I have I’ve spent 26 years in uniform being one of those “rough men” described in the qoute.

So…be anti-soldier and anti-police all you want. It’s you’re right. So don’t worry, Sweety….better men than you will make sure you keep your right to hate them.

Sleep tight, Snookums.

You have a keen interest in picking debris from you colon.

That is a great line! I will use it, I will forget where I heard it and take credit, that is how good it is!

Rationalising murder because it serves your nations interests is exactly what the Nazis were doing, you are no different.

I advocate military action that will end war and save lives, that is the ultimate morality, that we risk our own lives to save lives. Hitler advocated killing that Germany might be the masters of the world. If you cannot see that difference, there is no hope for you.

Just curious, how do you feel about America killing 1.5 million innocent human beings every year in the womb, not by the military but by liberal abortuaries? What about state sanctioned murder called active euthanasia?

The cities bombed were chosen for purposes of military advantage that the regretable devastation and losses of lives would end the war and save millions of lives. That was the military estimate of how many American soldiers would be killed invading Japan, so the ultimate act of military agression was required to save those lives and the lives of millions of dead Japanese.

right now SOOOOO angry at all of us mean conservatives that he could just give us SUCH a pinch — Pilgrim

I can’t get angry at you “conservative” types, I don’t see you as equals. I don’t get angry at children or pets either. But you are occasionally a curiosity. You cling to your ridiculous beliefs, chant mantras, throw tantrums, play dress-up in your uniforms. It’s amazing, it’s like you haven’t passed from children to adults.

I do wonder sometimes if I was born stupid, and a little primitive, if I could have ended up a conservative…

rbb, you ignorant pigeon shit slut of a terrorist apologist, you say the nicest things!

Peabrain, it was out yesterday.

I must have missed the personal call from Drudge notiying me he had posted it.

I’ll try to be more attentive to my phone messages. In the meantime, isn’t it time mommy fixed lunch for you, or some milk and cookies, perhaps?

Then it’s nappy time, Sweetums.

Pilgrim,

Did you also notice that the pigeon shit accused a veteran of being a chickenhawk?

Bat:

I wonder if there is anything on record to suggest that this particular “spineless men-wannabe” actually is, however nominally, male?

Call it a hunch, but I think this is a liberal spoon fed bedwetting metrosexual type male (in a vague biological sense, anyway) who is right now SOOOOO angry at all of us mean conservatives that he could just give us SUCH a pinch !!!!!!

Of course, I could be wrong.

Hey righties, where’s your outrage at your fellow rightie Drudge for endangering the troops in Afghanistan. You all talk big when a democrat does something but stay stunningly silent when one of your own, namely Drudge outs and officer and endangers the troops. So much for patriotism for the right.

Her protesting the Marines at Berkeley might imply her true intentions.

Laydownsally: The problem with conscription, the Marines have always attracted volunteers, professional soldiers, they are all infantrymen, and have little use for people like this.

Yes, there have always been military forces and quite often they have been used by evil men to advance evil ends. There have been many sadists and psychopaths that have used this as an excuse to join and engage their worst impulses. It is the sad story of the human race that such things exist. I cannot answer for history or other nations; but this nation has sent its best young men and women around the world to rescue those at peril of natural catastrophes, from the iron boots of cruel dictators and to defend those to weak to defend themselves. With some exceptions of a few soldiers that have been guilty of evil deeds, virtually all the rest are worthy of our thanks, they deserve our honor for their deeds and we should have pride that our military has for all intent and purposes been a forece for good around the world since we were founded.

We suffer the few evil men and even evil deeds of those wearing our military uniforms, we prosecute their crimes, we condemn their actions; but we honor only a very few of the majority of our brave soldiers, and yet we can be damn proud of all our military. Anyone looking for the exceptions, looking to condemn our military for the few, will benefit from their sacrifices though they don’t deserve the liberty these brave men and women purchased at such a high price.

Rodney and Bat:

Yeah, It’s not surprising that he would call a vet a chickenhawk. He probably doesn’t know the difference between his Barbie doll and his Chatty Cathy doll, so how could we expect any different.

Bat’s point is well taken: There are better women in uniform than spineless men-wannabes like this ever will be.

But – as I said before, those men and women will be fighting to protect his right to hide under his bed in Mommy’s basement and call them “idiots.”

Chickenhawk, your George Orwell quote is out of context since it is clearly advocating defense, not advocating illegal invasions on behalf of private entities, and gaining support for such actions by disseminating lies.

Have to disagree with you that it’s out of context. Rodney was responding to this comment by you:

But me, I am anti-soldier.

This implies that you dislike all soldiers, whether they’re defending us on our own soil or fighting in foreign lands. Never mind that you followed it up with:

Any idiot that sets off to foreign lands to kill people, because their government told them to, is an idiot.

You still did not add a qualifier to your original “anti-soldier” comment. Thus Rodney’s use of Orwell’s quote is relevant to the discussion.

Oh, and nice NOFX pic. They were cool… when I was like 14. Besides, I Heard They Suck Live.

Like usual 2Hotel9, you make accusations without supplying any evidence. Any links to where I stole stuff from? Also, I’d be quite interested to know if there are other people that think like me, I thought I was one-of-a-kind.

Also, some clown with over 7500 posts on this forum is questioning my employment? Funny!

Move_Zig:

Well dang-I agree with PP for once…

Wisdom always comes eventually to those who seek it.

PS: Actually, I’m starting to worry – about you or me – because you also got a laugh out of my comment on the “Chairman of American History Department at Berkeley” photo on a recent post by you.
;P

That’s a stunning piece of sophistry you came up with there, AV.

it is a city’s right to self-govern and make decisions to best reflect the vision for the community; Berkeley can make just such a decision by zoning where military recruiting offices can be within the city.

Not kick them out, just where they can be located.

I love you Neiman.
Matthew 22:39
Our God commands you to love me.
Do you love me Neiman?

Because the United States Marine Corps has a code of honor that parasites like Benjamin would never, ever understand.

Do I hear the voice of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men? You know the part I’m talking about.

This is why her type hates the Marines. The selfish are always in opposition to the selfless.

As they say in the Corps: That’s a big no-shitter

and then there is this gem:

, if there were no idiot soldier boys, there would have been no WWII. Dumbass.

Now, let’s think about this for a second, shall we?

AV, and this is out of character for me to directly address a Statist, but how does your statement follow logically?

Hitler had soldiers (Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine and so on) and he was using them.

Or are you suggesting that if no one had soldiers, there would have been no WWII?

But assuming that is not what you meant. What then?

Stalin had the Red Army and he used that too. As did Hirohito and his military commander Tojo.

Tojo invaded Manchuria.
Mussolini invaded Abyssinia.
Stalin invaded Finnland.
Hitler annexed Austria and the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia and both Stalin and Hitler invaded Poland.

And so on and so on.

Are you saying that the UK, France, the English Commonwealth, the governments-in-exile and the USA should not have formed their own armies and fought back?

I don’t know of a time in recorded history where man did not form cohesive bodies of soldiers and engage in conflict, both in aggression and in defense of aggression. There may have been peaceful groupings of humans who refused to fight, who refused to pick up a weapon and participate in their own defense, I do believe that whenever they have come into conflict with a war-like external threat, they were slaughtered and the survivors taken into slavery.

That’s not what you are suggesting by any chance?

I’m sure we can find a remote spot where all like minded smellyhippies can remove themselves from the awful presence of that area protected by Marines, Army, Navy, Air force, Coasties and heck, even the Brownie scouts, and you can live out your lives in splendid isolation, with your two cats in the yard, life used to be so hard and all that pink fuzzy bunny stuff.

And then pray to whatever God you pray to that you don’t encounter Muslim terrorists, or Abu Sayyaf, any of the warring factions that patrol the jungles or mountain sides of countless Third World nations.

Because when you are surrounded by the khat chewing, AK-47-toting terrorists, who know not of mercy or quarter, they will rape your women, slaughter your children and toy with you as a cat toys with a mouse before it kills it. That is how it has been since time immemorial and it will be well off into the future.

It is the nature of man that the weak will be preyed upon by predators, and it is incumbent upon socialized man to form a unified body for the common defense against predators.

Just curious.

How very un-Conservative of me.

Not necessarily, MZ; emotionally mature people(conservatives) tend to be emotional when it’s appropriate, not when doing the budget or defending their way of life.

I had never been to her web site until you called her out for loathing.
This is a pledge she is asking people to sign.

I support our troops. I support our youth.

I declare my support of counter recruitment efforts and conscientious objectors because I deeply value the sanctity of life, respect human dignity and affirm the right of freedom of thought and action.

I recognize that recruiting efforts by the US military are targeted disproportionately at young people in communities of color or lower income and that Military recruiters are often lying to young people with false promises of cash bonuses, education, jobs training, fun, travel, and adventure.

I recognize that 60% of recruits never receive any money for college and that veterans returning from Iraq are far more likely than the civilian population to become homeless, commit suicide or other violent acts, and have long-term physical and/or mental health problems.

I recognize that it is a city’s right to self-govern and make decisions to best reflect the vision for the community; Berkeley can make just such a decision by zoning where military recruiting offices can be within the city.

Please point to the loathing.

AV:TFR is no more an engineer than my dog is.

…this doesn’t exclusively require soldiers as examples…

It probably does exclude “anarchist vegetarians”, though.

Realitybasedbob requested:

Please link to where she has said she loathes Marines.

Er, I was laboring under the presumption that the protest outside of the Marine recruiters by her and her slimy brood could be taken for their loathing of the Marines. Or maybe it was the name calling. Or maybe the blocking of the entrance to the facility. Or the bullhorns.

I dunno. I get confused easily. I thought her loathing was pretty up front and obvious, Bob. To most sentient creatures, anyway.

…this is a liberal spoon fed bedwetting metrosexual type male (in a vague biological sense, anyway)

Pilgrim,

Yeah, I’ve heard that hospitals sometimes do screw up circumcisions. Pity. I didn’t realize the problem was nearly so prevalent.

You serious? Zinn’s book? He explains it from a leftist perspective I thought? Never read it though.

If you say it’s good, and you’re a rightist, maybe it is worth a look. Thanks.

I just trawled Drudge, 4 days worth, and found nothing even vaguely capable of endangering troops anywhere. Perhaps pissant dhimmi Democrat could link it.