Say Anything Blog

yeah, I go with B only because there is no D

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I can’t vote. My answer is to sell it, which isn’t an option.

If Cooperstown wants a corrupted record’s ball so much, they can buy it. I don’t expect that they would however, so I don’t expect my answer to upset the baseball purists.

Alright, I’ll vote. Just bestow it. Might as well not mark up such a historical item.

They can display the ball right next to a Black Sox jersey, taking it’s place in Cooperstown’s display of baseball’s hall of shame.

No asterisk for Bonds!

Ok, lemme give a little education in baseball to those who don’t get it with all this ‘asterisk’ bs.

1. Pretty much every player in the Major Leagues has the strength to hit a home run IF they hit the ball AT the right time, IN the right spot.

2. Steroids DO NOT help you to hit the ball AT the right time, IN the right spot.

Barry Bonds deserves this untarnished record because of his skill at hitting the baseball, period.

Last point, other than heresay by people with LOTS to gain by implicating Bonds, has it ever been proven with any testing whatsoever that Bonds actually TOOK steroids?

No.

Discussion over, crybabies vanquished.

Paint it up like an asterisk, stick a syringe in it’s backside and display it a Cooperstown.

Bill M, to your point #2..I don’t know if roids help you hit the ball or not. I do know that:
A) they do help you recover quicker to injury thus allowing you to compete in more games, more so the older you get.

B) He’s a good enough player that he’d have broken the record with no juice. He just got greedy.

Bill Mitchell, so… you’re saying (if) Bonds did the steroids route he did it for what ... simply the sake of controversy? Yep, nothing like doing drugs for absolutely no reason, pff…

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Pump it full of steriods until it’s a vollyball.  Then Pop it!

Bill let me give you a little education about steroids.  They allow you to get the bat around quicker and at a faster speed.  That means you can wait longer on a pitch and hit it harder.  What would normally be a pop fly is now a home run.

1. Pretty much every player in the Major Leagues has the strength to hit a home run IF they hit the ball AT the right time, IN the right spot.

2. Steroids DO NOT help you to hit the ball AT the right time, IN the right spot.

So there’s no reason why they take steroids then.  And there’s no reason why Bonds (and other players) started hitting a LOT more home runs after he mysteriously bulked up.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Can someone please point me to the documented evidence of Barry Bonds EVER failing a steroid test?

Right, you can’t.  It is all based upon heresay by those with gain to be made by implicating him.

Lots of people swore Lance Armstrong took steroids too but he never tested positive did he?

So do we look at all his wins with an “asterisk”?

Face it, until they test positive, you HAVE NO PROOF - PERIOD - END OF DISCUSSION.

Think about this - if Barry was as juiced as everyone says, don’t you think he would have tested positive just once?  I mean, lost of athletes test positive, but never Barry, not one time.

How come?

Also, I know people that take steroids - athletes.  They are BIG.  Bonds looks in shape but he is hulking Michelin Man.

Either prove it with a positive test, or shut up.

Regarding Barry “mysteriously bulking up”.  Sorry I just have to laugh.  With proper diet and exercise, anyone can transform their bodies in as little as 90 days.

Don’t believe me, check out the before and after pics at http://www.bodyforlife.com.

It’s amazing.  To assume you have to take steroids to get a nice cut body is just ignorance and a bit of jealousy.

"Can someone please point me to the documented evidence of Barry Bonds EVER failing a steroid test?

Right, you can’t.  It is all based upon heresay by those with gain to be made by implicating him.”

Barry himself said he did but said he didn’t know what it was. That’s pretty believable.

“Also, I know people that take steroids - athletes.  They are BIG”

He came in the league like a twig and is going out like a big sunzibitch. He’s not petite by any means. Why don’t you get a room with Barry...sheesh.

Now now there ..Bill Mitchell, I did say if ... so just caaaaalm yourself down, will ya

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I’d favor putting an asterisk on the ball, so long as we also put one on the home-run records of Hank Aaron (for playing in a ballpark advantageous to hitters for his entire career) and Babe Ruth (for playing his entire career prior to integration). Bonds’s record has come at a time when Major League Baseball is tougher to play than any other time in history)

The ballpark’s Aaron played in, and the racial makeup of major league baseball in Ruth’s day, were factors beyond their control.  And factors their contemporaries dealt with as well.

Barry Bonds used illegal chemicals not available to his contemporaries.  Or, available to them, but only if they acted in a furtive manner and broke the law.

So Bonds cheated.  Aaron and Ruth didn’t.  That’s the difference.

Bonds’s record has come at a time when Major League Baseball is tougher to play than any other time in history

That’s debatable.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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He cheated. Color it any way you want, put any spin on it you want, he cheated. He used performance enhancing, body altering drugs to help him.

If the drugs didn’t make any difference like one of the commentrs said, why use them at all when they mar your skin with acne, increase you chance of various cancers, destroy families and relationships with irrational rages and behaviours, and shrink your hoo-hah?

He cheated. I like the following comments:

Likwidshoe:

They can display the ball right next to a Black Sox jersey, taking it’s place in Cooperstown’s display of baseball’s hall of shame.

Markm:

Paint it up like an asterisk, stick a syringe in it’s backside and display it a Cooperstown.

He cheated. What should he do with the ball? The word “suppository” comes to mind.

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Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Rob:

The ballpark’s Aaron played in, and the racial makeup of major league baseball in Ruth’s day, were factors beyond their control.  And factors their contemporaries dealt with as well.

Are you suggesting that Bonds and his contemporaries did NOT have to deal with the wide availability of PEDs combined with Major League Baseball’s tacit approval of them? Bonds played the majority of his career with and against players who were using perofrmance enhancing drugs--a circumstance that was beyond his control. If you’re going to argue that he had a moral obligation to speak out against these immoral practices (or, at the very least, not participate in them), I’d have to ask you to reconsider your thoughts on Babe Ruth vis-a-vis segregation.

That’s debatable.

Yes, in the sense that everything--from the Holocaust to 9/11--is “debatable” on the Internet.

Quick Fact:  The pitcher who gave up Bonds’ 755th career homerun was Clay Hensley.  Hensley was suspended from baseball in 1995 for, get this, testing positive for steriods!!

Whoops, that last comment should have read like this:

Quick Fact:  The pitcher who gave up Bonds’ 755th career homerun was Clay Hensley.  Hensley was suspended from baseball in 2005 for, get this, testing positive for steriods!!

Oh, yeah, I also spelled steroids wrong.

Man, I give up!!

Rob - Barry Bonds used illegal chemicals not available to his contemporaries.

Creasy tells us otherwise.

Are you suggesting that Bonds and his contemporaries did NOT have to deal with the wide availability of PEDs combined with Major League Baseball’s tacit approval of them?

Tacit approval?  Perhaps, but no player could ever use them openly...so some players followed the rules to the letter while others broke them.

That’s not a “level playing field,” so those who broke the rules should have their careers tarnished accordingly.  And MLB should be ashamed of itself for creating that situation.  Frankly, I wouldn’t care if they did allow steroids, but the policy should be clear one way or the other.  And enforced equitably.

Yes, in the sense that everything--from the Holocaust to 9/11--is “debatable” on the Internet.

Well I was trying to be diplomatic about it, but since you’re an ass I’ll just say “you have no idea what you’re talking about.”

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob - Barry Bonds used illegal chemicals not available to his contemporaries.

Creasy tells us otherwise.

Was the pitcher using them in 2007?

Sure lots of players in MLB used PED’s, but I should note that my objection isn’t to the use of PED’s in and of itself...but rather the MLB’s rather silly and half-assed “it’s against the rules but we’re not really going to enforce anything” position.

Either PED’s are explicitly allowed, or they’re not.  Perhaps if more of the pitchers Bonds faced used PED’s he wouldn’t be near the record now.  Maybe, if more batters used them, the record would belong to someone else.

Frankly, MLB bears as much responsibility for this mess as Bonds does.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I am not sure if the pitcher was using them when he gave up the homerun to Bonds.

However, Bonds isn’t using them in 2007 or else he would have tested postive for steriods.

Who knows for sure what Bonds did or how many pitchers have used them in the past?

The problem of Steroids and HGH in baseball goes way beyond Bonds.

On the other side of that, Hensley didn’t test positive for steroids, so I would have to say that no, he wasn’t using steriods at the time Bonds hit number 755.

The problem of Steroids and HGH in baseball goes way beyond Bonds.

I’ll agree to that.

However, Bonds isn’t using them in 2007 or else he would have tested postive for steriods.

And notice Bonds’ performance has dropped way off too.  Age, or finally getting off the juice?

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Barry Bonds used illegal chemicals not available to his contemporaries.

Outside of the fact that Bonds alleged steroid use has never been proven, who knows what the ball players of yesteryear put into their bodies before a game.  Certainly they were no purists and nobody examined them under a microscope as they do today. 

Additionally, baseball today is technically different with improved equipment (bats, gloves, etc.) and changes in the game itself (the lowering of the pitching mound comes to mind).

Actually, individual batting statistics mean little in an team sport like baseball where pitching and defense usually determines the overall winners.

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The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

Rob-

And notice Bonds’ performance has dropped way off too.  Age, or finally getting off the juice?

The answer to that question is like asking how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? The world may never know.

Outside of the fact that Bonds alleged steroid use has never been proven, who knows what the ball players of yesteryear put into their bodies before a game.  Certainly they were no purists and nobody examined them under a microscope as they do today.

Babe Ruth was at the center of a media circus pretty much all the time.  I’m pretty sure that if there was widespread use of PED’s we would have heard of it.  Especially given the number of “tell-all” books that have come out about baseball’s luminaries.

Additionally, baseball today is technically different with improved equipment (bats, gloves, etc.) and changes in the game itself (the lowering of the pitching mound comes to mind).

Right, but those sort of changes effect all players.

I should note, again, that my objection to PED’s is more about the rather stupid way they’ve been handled by MLB.  They exist in a gray area, and they’ve never been something players could just use openly.  Therefore some players used them, others didn’t.  That’s not a level playing field, which is the point of my objection.

I say we either have the PED’s in the open for everyone to use, or we have an absolute ban that is equitably enforced.

Actually, individual batting statistics mean little in an team sport like baseball where pitching and defense usually determines the overall winners.

Batting is as important as pitching/defense.  Teams can’t win if other teams can put up a dozen runs a game.  They also can’t win if they don’t get any runs.  Saying that “individual batting statistics” mean little is, frankly, absurd.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Teams can’t win if other teams can put up a dozen runs a game.  They also can’t win if they don’t get any runs.  Saying that “individual batting statistics” mean little is, frankly, absurd.

Absurd, I think you are being a little harsh.  Our differences of opinion are with causality.  i.e. Is it bad pitching that inflates batting statistics or the batting skill of certain players.  Granted there may be a few players that can hit almost every pitcher but they are an extreme rarity whom good pitchers can ‘pitch around’.  If you look at the average batting average of the great majority of the players, you would not be impressed.

Anyway I think my point is well proven by the Rangers who in the past few years have had fairly good hitting but lousy pitching and look at their dismal records.

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The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

And notice Bonds’ performance has dropped way off too.

He’s having by far the greatest season by a player of his age in the history of professional baseball. Way off, yeah.

Rob disagreed with:

Bonds’s record has come at a time when Major League Baseball is tougher to play than any other time in history

Okay, Rob, name the other time in MLB history with a higher level of competition that today. I mean, if my statement is “debatable,” formulate an alternate theory. Was MLB really tougher in 1922--when the US population was 1/3 of what it is today, and the pool of players was limited to white Americans--than it is today?

He’s having by far the greatest season by a player of his age in the history of professional baseball. Way off, yeah.

You do know that I was talking about a drop off in his personal performance, right?  I mean, you can read can’t you?

Okay, Rob, name the other time in MLB history with a higher level of competition that today. I mean, if my statement is “debatable,” formulate an alternate theory. Was MLB really tougher in 1922--when the US population was 1/3 of what it is today, and the pool of players was limited to white Americans--than it is today?

The players weren’t pampered in Ruth’s day the way they are today.  Sports medicine wasn’t nearly as advanced as it is now, nor did the players enjoy the same sort of facilities and equipment.  The ball wasn’t juiced.  The bats were more like clubs.  The players traveled in trains instead of cushy private jets.

What you see on the field isn’t the only part of the game.

I’ll stipulate to the fact that competition is tougher today after integration and (perhaps more importantly) expansion of the talent pool to international areas like Asia and Hispanic countries.  But I think you’re foolish to discount the more...spartan...conditions players of old played in.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs: