Amnesty(n): An official pardon for people who have been conviced of crimes; an undertaking by the authorities to take no action against specified offenses or offenders during a fixed period.

Is reducing the penalty then amnesty? Of course not.

You are right on this:

Letting them off the hook for felony identity theft and letting them receive Social Security benefits besides is amnesty.

This is completely fucked up, and yes is amnesty.

Only requiring them to work three out of five years is amnesty.

Check the word definition again. How does this fit in?

Having no plan to do anything about the people in this country that don’t take the amnesty plan is also amnesty.

No, that’s just incompetence.

Why don’t you quit quibbling on the term used and explain why we should reward those that break our laws with exactly what they broke the laws to achieve. While you’re at it you should explain how that won’t encourage more illegal immigration.

Because word choice really does matter. Amnesty has become a loaded word, and is used inappropriately in order to get a desired “gut punch” reaction.

The words you use affect how the debate gets framed. Or in some cases, word choice can be used to stop any debate, “chickenhawk” is a good choice of that, “amnesty” is quickly becoming another.

I’ve been harping over the misuse of the word “amnesty” because it has become such a loaded word, that it prevents any further dialog. Stopping dialog is not in your interest, unless your views represent those of the overwhelming majority.

As to the rest…I happen to have grave reservations with reducing penalties (technically “clemency,” but that sounds so damned boring doesn’t it?) because of exactly the same problem that you mentioned with encouraging more aliens.

I’ve laid out “my plan” before which is:

1) deny the borders using a defense in depth strategy
2) deny employment to illegals by improving the verification process, eliminate loop holes in existing law that makes it easy for them to work without valid social security numbers,
3) enforce existing laws regarding employers who are blatantly violating the law, while making it easier to catch illegals.

My prediction for the plan that will be settled on:

1) do nothing.
2) see #1.

TW: Woof has to blame business; he’s a leftie.

President Bush’s Press Secretary did much the same thing when he was on the Rush Limbaugh show. (Of course even Rush makes that claim)

Rush talks about the time when some midwest meatpackers were targeted by immigration enforcement. They apparently got their Congresscritters to intervene.

I don’t think this is as nefarious as it sounds. As the law is interpreted these meat packers have to hire those with reasonable looking documents. When the government shows up and starts accusing them they’re stuck in a bad place.

1. They followed the rules. And now the government’s enforcing different rules.

2. They are losing a large chunk of their workforce that they hired in good faith by the rules.

3. They must wonder why out of millions of employers they are being singled out.

If the government gave employers the tools to enforce their responsibility it’d be a different thing. However blaming them for something they can’t do differently is wrong.

“Throughout this special Amnesty period, which began in October and ends January 31, individuals and businesses have been paying overdue taxes at a reduced interest rate.”

I would like to see an honest debate, because that is to everybody’s benefit.

Are you saying the politicians are being honest?

Tony Snow said on Rush last week that there was no penalty for illegals in the 1986 amnesty. Umm what punishment works except for deportation! It’s not like we want to pay for their room and board.

The President said that the illegals weren’t jumping in front of the line during his address to the nation. Let’s see, there’s people living in Third World Countries waiting to come here and the illegals get to stay here….

Nor any interest in any real back-and-forth on this issue.

Why then, bother with the posts on this subject?

eventually become legal permanent residents and citizens after paying at least $3,250 in fines, fees and back taxes and learning English.

and we’re led to believe that legal immigrants don’t have to do anything to become citizens.

What does the bill say they’re going to do to those that don’t follow the rules this time either.

The little hillbillies will build their fence by volunteer labor and carry their toy guns and puff out their chests; I wouldn’t doubt if they actually shoot someone (God forbid) and there’d be a big public trial, etc., etc.

Bottomline little Repubs:

There are open borders, there will be open borders.

Bush is a Tier One Globalist of the first degree, his Daddy’s Boy, New World Order, thousand points of light.

Get used to it.