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Monday, April 30, 2007

War Never Did Anything Good Except Save 40,000 Babies In Afghanistan And 15,000 Babies In Iraq

Except save the lives of 40,000 babies in Afghanistan.

And that’s a conservative estimate.

INFANT mortality in Afghanistan has fallen dramatically since the demise of the Taleban, according to a new study, with 40,000 fewer babies dying every year.

Improvements in women’s access to medical care since the Taleban were ousted from power five years ago was cited as the main reason for the death rate becoming significantly lower.

Grim infant and maternal mortality rates have been regularly cited as evidence of Afghanistan’s backwardness after decades of war.

They were also seen as a sign of the slow progress of the internationally funded reconstruction effort.

According to the preliminary results of a Johns Hopkins University study, the infant mortality rate has declined to about 135 per 1,000 live births in 2006, down from an estimated 165 per 1,000 in 2001. . . .

Benjamin Loevinsohn, a World Bank health specialist, said the survey results probably underestimated the improvement in infant mortality.

“It’s a conservative estimate. This is the situation two and a half to three years ago ... It should be better than that now,” Mr Loevinsohn said.

Stupid war of American imperial aggression saving all those babies lives.

/leftard

After reading this, I got curious as to how Iraq was doing in this same area post invasion.  According to figures from the CIA World Factbook there are roughly 864,588 live births in Iraq every year (about 31.44 for every 1,000 citizens).  In 2003 there was an infant mortality rate in Iraq of 55.16 per 1,000 births, or about 47,690 infant deaths.

In 2006 that infant mortality rate has dropped to 48.64 deaths per 1,000 births.  Or about 42,503 infant deaths/year.  Or about 5,187 fewer dead infants every year than in 2003.

So is it safe to say that we’ve saved roughly (and these numbers are, admittedly, very rough) 15,000 infant lives since invading Iraq?  I think that would be in the ballpark.

And just think of that.  15,000 lives saved

The anti-war folks may be quick to respond to that number with talk about the approximate 62,570 Iraqi civilians who have died in Iraq since the invasion over four years ago, a number that works out to about 15,323 dead civilians a year, but I’d point out that fewer Iraqis are dying now in the violence in Iraq than were dying under Saddam’s cruel regime.

According to this article the Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled information on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq under Saddam Hussein’s regime.  That’s probably low as its just the executions we know about and it doesn’t include those who died because Saddam diverted money from the UN’s humanitarian oil-for-food program into his own coffers, but we’ll use it anyway.  If we consider that Saddam Hussein was in power for 24 years, those 600,000 executions puts his yearly death toll at about 25,000/year.

So even with a conservative estimate as to the number of civilian deaths under Saddam there are still 10,000 fewer civilian deaths in that country per year now.

We’re saving lives in Iraq.  But don’t expect anyone in the media to tell you this stuff.

Update: Bob Owens has some problems with my math, and points out that the yearly civilian death toll under Saddam was probably more in the ballpark of 35,000 per year.  He’s probably right.  Civilian death numbers in pre-invasion Iraq are notoriously hard to pin down, mostly because all these murders weren’t exactly something Saddam was advertising.

We know hundreds of thousands of civilians were dying from starvation, poor social conditions, political unrest, Saddam’s wars of aggression and just plain outright murder at the hands of Saddam’s regime before we invaded.  As I noted in the post, my numbers are a conservative estimate.  We’ll probably never know the full scope of Saddam’s murderous tyranny, so it is with little hesitation that I embrace Bob’s numbers.

Comments

Avatar for Ronald Walter

It doesn’t save the 4000 unborn fetuses that are aborted daily in the United States.  Send those troops to America to save the unborn who will be so cruelly aborted each and every day right here.

Ronald Walter on April 30, 2007 at 08:35 am

Ronald Walter
STFU.

Rob
How many Americans or American ‘kids’ have ODed on heroin since we took over there and have tacitly consented to huge increases in opium production?


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 30, 2007 at 09:25 am

Why does the left hate babies?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 30, 2007 at 09:53 am

Whistler
I don’t think they do.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 30, 2007 at 10:10 am
Rob
Rob
17408 comments
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You gotta love how, when it’s pointed out that there’s actually less civilian death going on in Iraq post invasion, someone like Sparkie immediately tries to deflect with some nonsense about heroin.

Yes, Sparkie, the situation with heroin is bad in Afghanistan...but aren’t you for legalizing drugs anyway?

I’m for dealing with the heroin thing domestically by starting to legalize certain drugs like marijuana in order to undermine demand for things like heroin.

Regardless, your point isn’t germane to the subject at hand.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 30, 2007 at 10:35 am

Rob
Your Iraqi civilian death numbers are absurd - 62,000 my foot. Yes, I am for drug legalization. However, I am not for undermining the war on terror by tacitly consenting to the continued rate of poppy production in Afghanistan that is funding the Taliban elements there. The poppy consideration isn’t a deflection. If we were serious about the War on Terror and going after terrorist funding, we would be serious about the poppy $$ and the Saudis… and we aren’t. It flys in the face of all the trash talked about how we are geniumely interested in ending the War on Terror soon with a victory.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 30, 2007 at 11:09 am
Rob
Rob
17408 comments
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Sparkie, my 62,000+ civilian casualty number comes from the anti-war Iraq Body Count site.  Which, frankly, is the most reliable source for that number I’m aware of.

I’d like to hear why you think it’s so absurd.  Because Lancet says it’s more?  Please.  Give me a break.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on April 30, 2007 at 11:15 am

Ah… the ol’ Lancet study.  A study that “estimates” roughly 500 Iraqis die per day - a number that no one can come close to proving.


Fileitunder.com

Hoodlumman on April 30, 2007 at 11:21 am

I believe the Lancet study says it’s something like between 8 and 200,000.

As worthless as those numbers are, this would not be in conflict with that group.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 30, 2007 at 11:22 am
Avatar for Ronald Walter

The United States has the moral authority throughout all of the world.

Snarkie, there have always been heroin addicts. The English grew it in India and marketed it in China.  Hence, the Opium Wars.  Heroin was legal in China before the English started to sell it there.

You’re using a red herring, a ruse.  You’re beating a dead horse, pun intended.

Why do really, really smart ‘Republicans’ hate America so much? 

Those English are such moral, upstanding folks.

The only way the mess is going to end is for the US to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

But since war pays so good, the war will continue for years on end.

Ronald Walter on April 30, 2007 at 11:41 am

Rob
That’s a faux anti-Iraq war site for the use that you have found.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 30, 2007 at 11:52 am

The United States has the moral authority throughout all of the world.

I disagree.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 30, 2007 at 11:53 am

The US is the most moral country in the world.

However much of the world doesn’t see it that way.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 30, 2007 at 11:59 am
Avatar for TallDave

Your pre-war estimate of 600,000 is much too low.  Iraq also invaded Iran, a war which cost around a million lives, and then there was the Kuwait invasion.

Generally, Saddam is held responsible for about 2 million deaths total, or about 83,000 per year.

TallDave on April 30, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Rob
Rob
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That could be, Dave.  In the post I pointed out that my numbers represent a very conservative estimate of Saddam’s carnage, and even with that conservative estimate we’re still saving lives in Iraq.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 30, 2007 at 12:41 pm

The US is the most moral country in the world.

It is not morality that is important, but ethics.

“Morals define whether I should kill my neighbour Joe when he steals my tractor; ethics define whether it’s right or wrong for one person to kill another in a dispute over property.”

America is not among the most ethical of countries, neither is Britain for that matter. Perhaps New Zealand with no significant armed forces (except civil defence) and the freedom that democracy affords.


Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

ManofFireandLight on June 2, 2007 at 04:35 pm
Avatar for Johanna Bartley

America is the most moral country? How about those minors in Drug Treatment Center? Is that moral?

Johanna Bartley on December 28, 2007 at 10:33 am

America has always been the most charitable, giving people on earth. We willingly send our valiant soldiers to help out in a crisis, a Hurricane, Famine, death at the hands of brutal dictators, helping Europe twice in the last century to defeat Germany. The world’s poor and oppressed suffer great danger and risks to get here.

Are we perfect? NO! But, when compared to any other country on earth, please tell me which country do people come to when they need help in time of need?  New Zealand? I don’t freaking think so!


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on December 28, 2007 at 10:54 am
Avatar for Morrison

The solutions to the drug problem in the US are legalization of cheap drugs (such as marijuana) and punitive measures consisting of obligatory long term drug rehab.

Morrison on January 29, 2008 at 10:12 am

The solutions to the drug problem in the US are legalization of cheap drugs…

A simple supply/demand analysis will refute that notion.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on January 29, 2008 at 10:35 am

The solutions to the drug problem in the US are legalization of cheap drugs (such as marijuana) and punitive measures consisting of obligatory long term drug rehab.

This is probably an issue that ought to be dealt with on a state-by-state basis, rather than federally as is now the case… just as soon as each state removes drug rehabilitation from the public trough putting the responsibility back on the individual addict where it belongs, and also as soon as each such state passes a concealed carry law and indemnifies those who shoot to kill defending themselves, their loved ones, and their property.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 29, 2008 at 10:45 am
Avatar for cmhmd

Can somebody provide a link to the original study about the baby-saving thing. I googled a while and only found this…
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/infant-mortality-in-iraq-soars-as-young-pay-the-price-for-war-447931.html

Cheers

cmhmd on May 15, 2008 at 01:26 pm
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