Voter ID Law Racist?

• March 26, 2005

Hmm…

WXIA – About 100 protesters gathered at the state Capitol Thursday to rally against bills that would require that a person show a picture identification in order to vote.
Backers of the bills call them a giant step forward in the battle against voter fraud, but opponents say they’re a giant step backward after years of Civil Rights progress. They contend many of the poor and elderly would be blocked from voting because they do not have drivers licenses or any other photo identification.
Non-photo forms such as utility bills or Social Security cards would no longer be accepted under the measures. The bills, opponents argue, could keep certain people from voting and reverse years of progress in minority voting rights.

This is not a very convincing argument. According to the proposed legislation if you are in a situation where you cannot afford to purchase a photo identification card all a voter has to do is state “under oath that he or she is indigent and cannot pay the fee for an identification card, that he or she desires an identification card in order to vote in a primary or election in Georgia, and that he or she does not have any other form of identification that is acceptable under Code Section 21-2-417 for identification at the polls in order to vote” and they will receive a photo ID card free of charge.
And besides, an identification card is $10.00.
I have a hard time believing that there are many active voters in Georgia who are incapable of paying $10.00 for an identification card or are incapable of applying for a free identification card at any local DMV office.
The ID requirement at the polls is neither racist nor unduly burdensome upon the poorer citizens of Georgia. Those saying otherwise likely have ulterior motives for seeing this legislation stopped.
(via In The Bullpen and Rambling’s Journal)

Tags: General

http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Some have said this law will help against voter fraud and that’s why it’s so important. Cathy Cox, the Secretary of State in Georgia stated that voter fraud was associated with absentee ballots more than any other. She is, of course against this new law.

Why is she against the new law? Because voter fraud happens at the polling level, but it’s not the biggest source of fraud? Well that makes a bunch of sense! /sarcasm

So voter fraud is the excuse, the proof is absentee ballots, and the new law gives absentee ballots MORE leeway. Go figure.

This makes no sense. Combating voter fraud is the reason. Your “proof” makes no sense. Your claim that the “new law gives absentee ballots MORE leeway” makes no sense.

This law is racist and biased against black voters, Latino voters, young voters, first-time voters, ex-felon voters, elderly voters, poor voters, and disabled voters.

How is requiring an I.D. “racist and biased” against any of the groups you mentioned? Are you telling me that it is harder for blacks and Latinos to get I.D.s? Hmm…sounds a little racist Cathy.

Not sure what your ulterior motive is,…

Rob has no “ulterior motive”. Why do you assume that he does? Perhaps because you have an ulterior motive?

…but mine is fair and equal voting privileges for ALL. If you don’t see where this new law is discriminatory then I can only suggest you go back and read your history.

We are talking about “fair and equal voting privileges for ALL”. If you disagree, show where and how it is not equal. Also, what’s with the “go back and read your history” bit? Why don’t you just provide an argument?
http://www.standinthetrenches.blogspot.com/ M. E.

We have a similar debate going on here in Wisconsin. I attended a public hearing this past week, and heard a lawyer for a Midwest Latino group say that “even a dollar” would be too much for some people to pay. That’s right, a one-time expense of One. Dollar.

Besides, in WI the proposed law says the Photo ID’s would be FREE. Well, free to the person getting one; the taxpayer, as always, gets the bill.

Heard the rest of the same arguments too: racist, suppression of the vote, etc.

Nonsense.
Seth Williams

Thanks Cathy, I enjoyed the fruit, now let’s get to the meat of the matter.

You state that, like the posters on this site, you are white and privledged, and that as white and privledge people we can’t presume to know the challenges of being a minority. Then you go to tell us how challenging it is to be a minority. Irony, thy name is Cathy.

Don’t use reverse racism on me! Whether you believe it or not, it is harder for black, Latino and others living below the poverty level (and all the others I mentioned) to get a Government-issued ID. This is FACT, no need to argue here.

Why shouldn’t we cite reverse-racism? You’re quick to use the racism card when it would seem to advantage your cherished beliefs, yet you shrink from it when your beliefs could be protrayed as somewhat belittling of minorities. What makes it a FACT? Just because you say so?

By the way Cathy, I live way the hell below the poverty level, and I have no issue whatsoever with a law like this. Getting ID? Not prohibitively expensicve in terms of time or money. Getting a birth certificate? Not hard, and not usually time consuming considering you can do it by mail in most cities. Even if you do it in person, there usually aren’t any lines. I know this, I’ve done it both by mail and in person. It’s easy, quick, and cheap.

Your point about absentee ballots isn’t quite right. The law doesn’t make it any easier to commit fraud with an absentee ballot, it simply doesn’t make it harder. I wouldn’t disagree that this is a glaring hole, but that doesn’t mean that we, as a society, shouldn’t close some holes. I say again: you make the perfect the enemy of the good.

It’s really condescending to suppose that minorities and poor are so beleagured as to be incapable of doing something so simple, and cheap, and non-time consuming, as getting proof of citizenship and eligiblity to vote.

IF you want to rail against a byzantine system Cathy, take a look at the immigrant visa appliczation process. Now that’s time consuming and expensive.
Cathy Browning

It is obvious to me that you folks must be part of the “white privileged”, as I am too.

So, how would you know that there are segments of society (not your immediate society) that may find extreme hardships and obstacles with issues like this. Your opinions don’t surprise me.

I see “likwidshoe” chose to address a few of my comments and just left the others alone.

You totally ignore my first four paragraphs which happen to be factual and you don’t seem to mind at all.

Instead you comment on Cathy Cox’s objection to this law by stating her objection in your own words. She objects because it is discriminatory and draconian. A few other states tried to pass a similar law and the governor vetoed it.

The new Georgia ID Law gives more leeway to absentee ballots because it will not require ID. Does this make sense to you? Check out Georgia HR 244.

Don’t use reverse racism on me! Whether you believe it or not, it is harder for black, Latino and others living below the poverty level (and all the others I mentioned) to get a Government-issued ID. This is FACT, no need to argue here.

Why are you ignoring what I said about the Guidelines for the Department of Driving Services (sometimes known elsewhere as the DMV)? You need a birth certificate, passport AND the time to get these items. Say you did have the money for that birth certificate. Have you ever tried to get yours. It takes time.

Rob brought up “ulterior motive.” Those are not my words.

In case you weren’t paying attention I was providing facts and arguments which you personally don’t see. So the easiest thing to say to folks like you is go read your history!

Have a nice bowl of fruit.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Evidence of the “voter fraud is the excuse” problem:

The investigation discovered more than 300 noncitizens had registered to vote in Bexar County, some as far back as the mid-1990s, and that 41 of them had actually cast a ballot.
Seth Williams

Cathy said:

This law is racist and biased against black voters, Latino voters, young voters, first-time voters, ex-felon voters, elderly voters, poor voters, and disabled voters.

To which I reply: how? How is it discriminatory to those groups?

Is it somehow easier for white, middle-aged, law-abiding, middle-class voters to get proof of eligibility to vote? Why is this?

Perhaps the law isn’t perfect, but you’d make the perfect the enemy of the good.
Cathy Browning

Seth: You did say it was condescending to assume…..

I think my posts are a mix of feelings and facts and what I have observed and read about the issues. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I am working on voter reform with many groups across the nation.

New absentee ballot law exempts the ID Law, but it also allows for folks to file one without “a reason.” Before last week you had to have a reason. So, no ID and no reason in the area where the most fraud is commited !

All I can suggest is that you Google Georgia ID Law… you will find feelings, opinions and facts. How one convinces you that minorities are being unfairly affected by this is something I can’t answer. Just how many minorities would convince you of this? Should I get 100 or 1,000 people to tell you about this?

I’m working on finding a mother stranded in New Orleans for a family who made it out to Baton Rouge. So my time is limited. I will try to get it together and come back here.
Cathy Browning

Well, I am accused of being racist and condescending to minorities.

I have been a community organizer for 30 years, working with poverty issues spanning many states.

Maybe I did not make it clear, but I am relaying to you what these communities see and feel. For years many had to accept the poll tax, the grandfather clause and the literacy test under the Jim Crow era.

Your solution is: if it’s too much trouble, then you can’t vote.

You may want to look into why it is such a “trouble”, both physically and economically. You may want to read the Voting Rights Act, the history of elections, the history of black and other minorities, the history of poor whites in Appalachia and other places, you may just want to read to be informed and caring human beings.

But, then again that may be too much “trouble” for you.
Seth Williams

Cathy, I can tell you feel very strongly about this issue, and I don’t doubt your commitment to the plight of disadvantaged groups. However, I’ve read, and re-read, your postings and find them unconvincing on the topic simply because they are more based on feelings, and not facts.

I’ve not really called you a racist, and you’ve not really addressed my points nor my queries. I’m willing to have an open discussion, and I’m willing to be swayed in my beliefs. By facts, not by feelings.

I, as an American, want my vote to be secure from fraud. I wouldn’t disagree that this law doesn’t adequately address absentee ballots, but it doesn’t make it any easier to commit fraud with an absentee ballot either.

Instead of issuing a blanket condemnation of voter reform, why not spend some time on thinking of ways the reform could be improved. Unless, of course, you reject the need for reform. In which case I would submit that it is you who needs to get more informed on the issues.

Regards.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Cathy Browning said, It is obvious to me that you folks must be part of the “white privileged”, as I am too.

Why would you even say something like this? Seems you are sowing racial discord to shore up a weak argument.

So, how would you know that there are segments of society (not your immediate society) that may find extreme hardships and obstacles with issues like this. Your opinions don’t surprise me.

Here’s my take: if getting a proper ID is too much trouble, then you can’t vote.

I see “likwidshoe” chose to address a few of my comments and just left the others alone.

You totally ignore my first four paragraphs which happen to be factual and you don’t seem to mind at all.

Whoa. Don’t get ahead of yourself Cathy. I didn’t respond to your first four paragraphs because you spent those paragraphs explaining that only government issued IDs are permissible. I “don’t seem to mind at all” that you clarified the ID issue, and why would I?

Instead you comment on Cathy Cox’s objection to this law by stating her objection in your own words.

Was I wrong in that assessment? If so, show me where.

She objects because it is discriminatory and draconian.

“Discriminatory” to whom? People who don’t have IDs? “Draconian” seems to have a pretty low bar for Cathy Cox.

The new Georgia ID Law gives more leeway to absentee ballots because it will not require ID. Does this make sense to you?

It does now. I don’t know why it didn’t before.

Don’t use reverse racism on me!

“Reverse racism”? What the hell is that? The proper term is simply racism. Using the term “reverse racism” suggests that it solely or mainly the domain of one group and anybody outside of that group can’t be “racist” per se, so the term “reverse racism” is used.

Having said that, can you show me where I was using “reverse racism” against you?

Whether you believe it or not, it is harder for black, Latino and others living below the poverty level (and all the others I mentioned) to get a Government-issued ID. This is FACT, no need to argue here.

Again, this seems kind of racist. And incredibly condescending.

Why are you ignoring what I said about the Guidelines for the Department of Driving Services (sometimes known elsewhere as the DMV)? You need a birth certificate, passport AND the time to get these items. Say you did have the money for that birth certificate. Have you ever tried to get yours. It takes time.

I’m not “ignoring” it. You made your point and I have nothing to add. Don’t think that because I haven’t patted you on the back for making your point, that I have “ignored” your point.

Rob brought up “ulterior motive.” Those are not my words.

No. These are your words:

Not sure what your ulterior motive is, but mine is fair and equal voting privileges for ALL.

Those are your words. You are saying that Rob has an ulterior motive. To which I asked, “why do you assume that he does?” But you tell me: how was I supposed to read that?

In case you weren’t paying attention I was providing facts and arguments which you personally don’t see.

I had made no argument before, so I know that you aren’t speaking to me. In case you weren’t paying attention, outside of the few facts you brought to the table involving the cost of IDs, you brought accusations of racism and ulterior motives.

So the easiest thing to say to folks like you is go read your history!

Which is a meaningly statement in regards to your argument.

Have a nice bowl of fruit.

I wish I could offer the same.
Cathy Browning

Dear Rob: Your missive on the Georgia Voter ID Law was missing facts. You are not alone because every headline on this started out with “photo ids required.” I will tell you that those photo IDs are ONLY government-issued including a driver’s license and photo ID from the Department of Driver Services (DDS)(who by the way have around 59 locations in a state with almost 200 counties), or military and tribal photo IDs.

So in fact a photo ID from a private corporation or any college or university would not be acceptable.

Your illusion that the whole process of getting a photo ID would be free is unfounded. DDS requires a certified birth certificate, passport, etc. There is not only a cost for this service, but most importantly it takes a lot of time.

There were elections held in some place in Georgia yesterday. Do you think these folks had time to get that birth certificate and then toddle down to the nearest DDR which could have been in the next county?

Some have said this law will help against voter fraud and that’s why it’s so important. Cathy Cox, the Secretary of State in Georgia stated that voter fraud was associated with absentee ballots more than any other. She is, of course against this new law.

So voter fraud is the excuse, the proof is absentee ballots, and the new law gives absentee ballots MORE leeway. Go figure.

This law is racist and biased against black voters, Latino voters, young voters, first-time voters, ex-felon voters, elderly voters, poor voters, and disabled voters.

Not sure what your ulterior motive is, but mine is fair and equal voting privileges for ALL. If you don’t see where this new law is discriminatory then I can only suggest you go back and read your history.
http://eyesontheball.blogspot.com/ Pluto’s Dad

The only problem for those people I see is not the cost, it’s having other identification to prove who they are so they can get an id.

At first I thought maybe social workers could “vouch” for them, but then I thought of Seattle and Milwaukee this past election and the outright fraud surrounding the homeless vote.

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