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Friday, February 01, 2008

Virgina Considering “Stand Your Ground” Legislation, Gun Control Nuts Freak Out

The Virginia Center for Public Safety, an anti-gun group, sent out an email alert in response to proposed “stand your ground” legislation that would restore self defense rights to the citizens of that state.  This excerpt from it, found via the Richmond Times-Dispatch’s Bart Hinkle, is hilarious:

[The stand your ground legislation] would eliminate a citizen’s duty to retreat to avoid a threat and allow him/her to freely use deadly force to protect against bodily harm and/or trespassing.

Can anyone tell me why that’s such a bad thing?

It seems like the anti-gun crowd is always apoplectic when legislation loosening gun/self defense regulations is proposed.  Here in North Dakota when a bill like this was making its way through the legislature the state’s liberals - up to and including those at the Fargo Forum - were busy calling it the “shoot your neighbor bill” among other absurd things.  But the truth is that several states - including Florida and Michigan - have passed laws like with with none of the disastrous consequences predicted by the anti-gun people.

In fact, in Michigan the law is saving lives.

So even with proof that this sort of legislation works why do liberals oppose it?  It’s hard to say, but I’m guessing it has something to do with the liberal mentality in general.  Liberals simply don’t trust individual citizens to make good decisions.  That’s why they want the government to run health care.  That’s why they say mandatory Social Security contributions are a necessity.  Because they think we should be dependent on the government instead of dependent on ourselves.

That they recoil from the idea of individuals defending themselves instead of being entirely dependent on the police to protect them.  Hating individualism is just part of being a liberal.

Comments

Ok, I can take the mixups of “its” and “it’s” that occur regularly but this one takes the cake. Please, please change this one.  It is “ground” not “grown”.

Puzzlefeet on February 1, 2008 at 05:55 pm
Avatar for Lee S Gliddon Jr

Congratulations to Virginia! Any CITIZEN should be able to defend themselves or anyone under attack with no fear of any recriminations! This is AMERICA and it is THE LAND OF THE FREE!

Lee S Gliddon Jr on February 1, 2008 at 06:01 pm

eliminate a citizen’s duty to retreat to avoid a threat

So in Virginia sniveling cowardice is a citizens duty?

I wonder if it has anything to do with this?


"we should select our leaders on principle first, electability second.”

A young man whose wisdom far exceeds his years

Spartacus on February 1, 2008 at 06:11 pm

Rob,

The Statists always trot out the same old lies and scarifying propaganda against guns, regardless of how many times they are exposed as wrong or just plain lies.  They are not interested in the truth.  They are interested in ceding all citizen power to the State and then becoming the State

They have nothing but contempt for anyone or anything that gets in the way of those objectives.

It may be an old slogan, but it bears repeating:

A State where only Police have guns is a Police State


...for great justice

Move_Zig on February 1, 2008 at 06:39 pm

LOL, Puzzlefeet .. I just noticed you have 872 comments and no doubt 872 are negative ones. My question is, if everything here is so torturous for you, why do you continuously return? Do you thrive on pessimism?
Seems to me it’s not a healthy lifestyle to pursue or to bestow upon others.


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Anna on February 1, 2008 at 06:54 pm

As opposed to let’s see, hmmmm..... 2h9, movezig, neiman, on and on and on. Anna, I believe you said your were a teacher, I would think that two headlines in a row with misspellings would even get your attention. It wasn’t negative, simply pointing out the headline misspelling.  Now there’s two in a row.  It just doesn’t look good.

This is not torture at all, but obviously I’ve gotten under your skin.  Move along if you don’t want to read my comments.

Puzzlefeet on February 1, 2008 at 06:59 pm

snap


“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on February 1, 2008 at 07:03 pm

Sheesh ..Puzzlefeet, You can point out things that others do that are bothersome to you yet, I point out your rather questionable trait and your claws appear. *shrugs*
Suit yourself if being a pessimist is something you strive for here.
smile


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Anna on February 1, 2008 at 07:22 pm

Anna,

As odd as it may seem, Puz and other visiting Leftards do serve a vital purpose on this Blog—they remind us that Leftists do not think like we do.

Having grown up in a Conservative household, I never had to really develop a debating point. It was generally someone would make a statement about law, politics or government and the rest would nod in agreement.

It wasn’t until I hit the Marxist universities of Europe that I really encountered the extreme BS of the Left, was forced to do research and expose their propaganda as erroneous at best, and more often as blatant lies.  The catch was, they never acknowledged that they were wrong, they’d just insult you and do the Moveon to the next lie routine.  Still, I felt vindicated after finding out the truth and those middle-of-the-roaders who were listening were the ones that were swayed.

Further, I visited the Anne Coulter forum which seems to be devoid of trolls and Statists… it’s boring as hell!

(grin)


...for great justice

Move_Zig on February 1, 2008 at 07:44 pm

MZ, they serve to illustrate that they do not think. Period.

puzz routinely toddles in and screeches about grammar, spelling and punctuation errors. And invariably, those screeches are shot through with grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors.

As for Virginia allowing citizens to defend themselves, those of the Founding Fathers buried in Virginia will finally fall below 2500 rpm.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on February 1, 2008 at 07:57 pm
Rob
Rob
17374 comments
Send a private message

Hey, I make a lot of spelling mistakes and such here.  It happens because a) I’m usually banging out posts in the middle of doing 10 other things and b) the fact that I don’t have an editor, and when I proofread I read what I meant to write instead of what I did write.

Regardless, I don’t think that Puzzled (Queen of the run-on sentence) has any room to call me out in such a snide way.  Usually a nice comment, or better yet a private message, pointing out the error is very much appreciated.


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Rob on February 2, 2008 at 03:48 am

hehehe, like the new avatar. That is from The Great White North, is it not?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on February 2, 2008 at 04:59 am
Rob
Rob
17374 comments
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hehehe, like the new avatar.

Beauty, eh?


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Rob on February 2, 2008 at 05:04 am

Ya hoser.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on February 2, 2008 at 05:06 am
Avatar for Jack

Having grown up in a Conservative household, I never had to really develop a debating point.

It shows.

Having grown up in a Conservative household, I never had to really develop a debating point. It was generally someone would make a statement about law, politics or government and the rest would nod in agreement.

Why is it that conservatives always want a big white Daddy figure to tell them what to think? (see Limbaugh, Rush and Thompson, Fred)

Jack on February 2, 2008 at 07:49 am

Why is it that conservatives always want a big white Daddy figure to tell them what to think?

Gee, Jack, if you ever started thinking, you’d see that folks like Rush merely reflect the thinking of a majority of conservatives who held those opinions long before Limbaugh came along.
Rush validates their point of view by telling the truth in a culture where the MSM is monolithically liberal, weaselly and wrong! (Is it redundant to say liberal AND weaselly?)



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on February 2, 2008 at 08:47 am
Avatar for Jack

...folks like Rush merely reflect the thinking of a majority of conservatives who held those opinions long before Limbaugh came along.

Delusions of Grandeur and an obsessive need of validation.

...the MSM is monolithically liberal, weaselly and wrong!

Paranoia.

Yup, you’re a conservative!

PS:

Premise 1: the MSM is monolithically liberal, weaselly and wrong!

Premise 2: Rush is part of the MSM.

Ergo: Rush is monolithically liberal, weaselly and wrong!

Jack on February 2, 2008 at 09:10 am
Avatar for water joe

You may be right, Rob, about the wisdom of such a law, but I am troubled by your simplistic tendency to equate individualism with conservatism.  Classic conservatism rejects individualism since it sees the individual as a fallen soul, with a disposition to sin.  (Read Burke, Aquinas, Kirk) This is not to say that the alternative is statism.  That is to simplistic.

There were conservatives that opposed the North Dakota bill, and for conservative reasons.  Essential to conservative thought is the principle that there are absolute rights and wrongs and that we cannot do wrong even if there are no “disastrous consequences” and even if there are, as you claim exists in Michigan, positive benefits.  Otherwise, we risk accepting a utilitarian principle—also contrary to classic conservatism—an ends justifies the means principle.

Some conservative legislators opposed the bill because they felt there are certain lines that should not be crossed by individuals and because they concluded that law and order—another conservative principle—would be undermined by the proposed law.

You may not agree with those conclusions, but I think it is mistake to assume that any opposition to such bills is liberalism.

water joe on February 2, 2008 at 09:54 am
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