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Saturday, April 07, 2007

Union Hypocrisy On Illegal Immigration And Mexican Truckers

That America’s unions support amnesty for illegal immigrants and oppose any effort to stop more illegal immigrants from coming into this country is common knowledge.

That unions also oppose America’s NAFTA treaty with Mexico, which promised Mexican trucking companies access to our entire country when they’re hauling loads that originate in Mexico, is also well known.  This access was supposed to have been granted to Mexican truckers by 2000, but it’s been delayed by protectionist union lackeys like North Dakota’s Byron Dorgan who don’t want those Mexicans competing with American truckers enrolled in the Teamsters Union.

So my question for the union supporters is this: Why oppose allowing Mexican truckers into America legally, under the NAFTA treaty, in order to conduct legitimate commerce but support Mexican immigrants coming into this country illegally?

I’d really like an answer to that one.  Because it’s clear, to me, that allowing Mexican truckers access to the American market is a good way to help enrich Mexico’s economy and thin out the number of people fleeing poverty in that country by forcing their way into ours.  In fact, I’d say it’s immoral not to grant these Mexican truckers access to our economy.  After all, competition among business and the unencumbered flow of commerce is good for all of us, Mexican and American alike.

Could it be that the unions are really just interested in their bottom line rather than the well being of Mexicans?  That they want amnesty for lots and lots of illegal immigrants because those illegals represent a broad new base for unionization?  That they don’t want Mexican truckers in America because those truckers would be competition for overpaid union truckers?

I think those are the only conclusions we can really come to.

Comments

Avatar for Amos Van Horn

Could it be that you blindly support anything the Bush administration proposes, even when members of his own party think it’s a bad idea?  I think those are the only conclusions we can really come to.

Amos Van Horn on April 7, 2007 at 03:36 pm

Amos

“Could it be that you blindly support anything the Bush administration proposes,”

“Could it be be that you have pulled your big head and small brain out of your ass lately?’

Come to to the table with at least a knife and a fork when you think you are hungry.

Eneils Bailey on April 7, 2007 at 03:47 pm

Amos,
Got news for you, you don’t want to come in here and banter with these people. They are smart, unforgiving, have little tolerance for ignorance, and will cut you without you feeling the pain until you are dying on the emergency room table.

Eneils Bailey on April 7, 2007 at 03:56 pm

Hey, Amos? The whole open borders, North American Union crap is a Democrat construct from the late ‘50s. W damn sure ain’t helping America in all this, he is not an America first Conservative, and never has been.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 7, 2007 at 03:56 pm

I’m not a union supporter, but an completely opposed to Mexican trucks crossing the border and operating within the USA.

We’ve got enough coyotes and drug-runners already, and the damage they have done should be obvious to everyone with two eyes and ears.

This silly idea can only result in more illegals, and more drugs, coming across our borders.


[Feet make good soup!]

Marty on April 7, 2007 at 03:57 pm

Amos,
Go back to the DaileyKOS, Democratic Underground, The Huffington Post, or whatever.

They appreciate your intellect more than we do.

Eneils Bailey on April 7, 2007 at 04:02 pm
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I’m not opposed to Mexican truckers in the least.  I think opening up the border to more commerce between Mexico and the US is the best way to slow down illegal immigration.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 7, 2007 at 04:04 pm
Avatar for jpe

You’re obviously misreading this for political purposes.  In case anyone doesn’t understand, the point is simple: unions want as many people unionized as possible.  If they’re legal in America, they can be unionized.  If they’re working for shady Mexicano companies, they won’t be unionized.

Very simple.  Think it’s wrong, but it’s just dumb to think it hypocrisy.

jpe on April 7, 2007 at 04:11 pm
Avatar for jpe

I think opening up the border to more commerce between Mexico and the US is the best way to slow down illegal immigration.

I certainly agree in principle.  The problem is that Mexico is insanely corrupt.  I mean, it’s a total wreck.  The passage of NAFTA should’ve waited until Mexico had gotten it together a little more.

That said, we see similar labor movement in EU countries (see, eg, the recent phenomenon of the polish bartender in Ireland).  I wonder how bad it is there, how much they despise the labor influx, and how it’s different from here.

jpe on April 7, 2007 at 04:16 pm
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I love it when libs are stuck having to play apologist for hypocritical unions.  It’s ok to let illegal immigrants in so we can collect union dues from them, but not ok to let them in to, you know, actually engage in legal commerce.

Because that might mean competition for the overpaid union truckers.

Do you really expect people to take you seriously?

The problem is that Mexico is insanely corrupt.  I mean, it’s a total wreck.

That’s a pretty lousy excuse.  Things in Mexico are awful, so let’s isolate them until they work it out for themselves?

I say we open up some free trade and create jobs, and efficient commerce/cheaper goods, for everyone.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 7, 2007 at 04:29 pm
Avatar for likwidshoe

Amos Van Horn, if that is the only conclusion you can come to, then that doesn’t speak too well to your intelligence. Really man, just stick around to when we discuss Bush’s spending or his allowance of an open border. Perhaps then, you’ll see how fantastically foolish your comment was.

likwidshoe on April 7, 2007 at 04:50 pm

Rob, allowing Mexican Nationals to operate large volume freight transport unrestricted within the borders of the US is insane.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 7, 2007 at 05:01 pm

Test, where’s my dancing pic.

likwidshoe on April 7, 2007 at 05:03 pm
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Rob, allowing Mexican Nationals to operate large volume freight transport unrestricted within the borders of the US is insane.

It’s not, actually.  It makes sense.  Opening ourselves up to more commerce with Mexico will make that country a better neighbor.

Isolationism is never a good thing.  Not when we’re talking about war nor when we’re talking about trade.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 7, 2007 at 05:05 pm

I want dancing pictures..Did I not see boobs somewhere… That does not include you, Amos.

Eneils Bailey on April 7, 2007 at 05:15 pm

Could it be that you blindly support anything the Bush administration proposes, even when members of his own party think it’s a bad idea?  I think those are the only conclusions we can really come to.

I see what the Problem is. The problem is that these trucks would meet DOT inspection standards and they are a danger on the roads. Also, once they get here whats to stop them from picking up loads illegally and transfering the cargo somewhere else. I question how well they are being inspected at the port on the southern border.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
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goon on April 7, 2007 at 05:40 pm

I meant to say that the Trucks probably aren’t up to DOT standards.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
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goon on April 7, 2007 at 05:41 pm
Avatar for ellinas

"overpaid union truckers?”
By Rob on April 7, 2007 .

Please enlighten us as to how much a overpaid union trucker makes as opposed to a properly paid non union one.

ellinas on April 7, 2007 at 05:53 pm

I want dancing pictures...

How about a silly little vid instead?

likwidshoe on April 7, 2007 at 05:54 pm

Unions are killing this country.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on April 7, 2007 at 05:54 pm

Poor Rob has gone soft or something.


[Feet make good soup!]

Marty on April 7, 2007 at 06:20 pm
Avatar for ellinas

Poor Rob has gone soft or something.
Marty on April 7, 2007 at 06:20 pm

No he is talking out of his ass.

ellinas on April 7, 2007 at 06:44 pm

How about a silly little vid instead?

Put your hate on straight!


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 7, 2007 at 07:06 pm

I meant to say that the Trucks probably aren’t up to DOT standards.

Are the Canadians any better?  I don’t like the way they drive.

I guess if we can work it out with Canadia than we should do the same with Mexico.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 7, 2007 at 07:08 pm

What Toot said! Put your hate on straight. I hate crooked hate!


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 7, 2007 at 08:14 pm
Avatar for Ronald Walter

Your heads are cabbage.

Unions are a good thing.  Do you want children working in a factory at two in the morning?

There are 200 million people in China who are looking for jobs.  57 cents an hour is the going rate.  Lazy Americans can emigrate to China and go to work over there.  Compete with those starving Chinese workers. 

I am not going to worry about workers from Mexico threatening the job of an overpaid member of the Teamster’s Union.

I also am not going to worry about an overpaid CEO from a corporation setting up shop in an industrial district in Krakow.

Corporations are shortchanging America, not Mexico.

They are the real subversives.

Ronald Walter on April 8, 2007 at 06:28 am
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Your heads are cabbage.
Unions are a good thing.  Do you want children working in a factory at two in the morning?

Hey, cabbage head! Child labor laws keep children out of the factories, not the unions!
Sheesh! Crack a book some time, RW!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on April 8, 2007 at 06:43 am

Are the lefties getting dumber or are we just getting more smarter?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 8, 2007 at 06:49 am

Who pushed those laws Proof, you open a book!

Puzzlefeet on April 8, 2007 at 06:57 am
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Who pushed those laws

Do you want to make the argument that the unions provided a valuable service 100 years ago? I’d accept that argument! Do you want to argue that the unions are an anachronism, and not relevant to today’s labor market? Bring it on!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on April 8, 2007 at 07:04 am
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BTW: Buggy whips and whale-bone corsets had their day, too! It’s just not today!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on April 8, 2007 at 07:09 am

As if unions were the only ones to push for child labor laws. 

I imagine the other groups actually had the welfare of the children at heart versus the union thugs who wanted the labor market for themselves.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 8, 2007 at 07:12 am
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As if unions were the only ones to push for child labor laws.

Grant the devil his due, Whistler! Historically, unions did play a part in enacting child labor laws. Aside from the fact we could say it was in the union’s self interest to have child labor laws (Children were taking away jobs from union members)

But RW’s drivel was present tense:

Do you want children working

Indicating, perhaps, that RW hasn’t had a valid argument in the last century???


For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on April 8, 2007 at 07:22 am
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Marty, I haven’t gone soft.  I still support the exportation of illegal immigrants and the sealing of our border to further illegal immigration.

I just also happen to know that the best way to make Mexico a better neighbor is to stimulate its economy through free trade.  There is nothing wrong with allowing Mexican trucks in.  WE can inspect them for safety and law enforcement reasons.  It will be just fine letting them in.

By the way, Puzzled, still waiting to hear about why you’re fine with letting illegals in but not Mexican truckers.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 8, 2007 at 07:24 am

Rob, they will not be checked for safety or law enforcement, the last 40 years of non-enforcement of our immigration laws and border security clearly shows that. And with the North American Union crowd from both parties in control this will all be enforced even less than current policy allows.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 8, 2007 at 07:33 am

Historically, unions did play a part in enacting child labor laws. Aside from the fact we could say it was in the union’s self interest to have child labor laws (Children were taking away jobs from union members)

I think I said the same thing.

I just also happen to know that the best way to make Mexico a better neighbor is to stimulate its economy through free trade.

That’s true as far as it goes.  However they aren’t going to get very far without eliminating their corruption.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 8, 2007 at 07:33 am
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you open a book!-Puzzlefeet

Instructions to Puzzlefeet & RW: After you open the books,you really should try to read them as well! (Figured you guys might need a little remedial instruction!)



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on April 8, 2007 at 07:34 am
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Rob, they will not be checked for safety or law enforcement

They’ve been allowed across on a limited basis for some time now, and they are being checked for safety and law enforcement concerns.

And that North American Union stuff is garbage.  You do yourself a discredit even mentioning it favorably.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 8, 2007 at 07:35 am

The Presidents of Mexico and America, and the PM of Canada got together and signed papers with the sole purpose of opening the borders between the 3 countries, FOX, CNN, and the Big3 networks all covered it. Are you trying to say it never happened, and that NAFTA and CAFTA do not, in point of fact, exist? Is that really your point here?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 8, 2007 at 07:44 am

According to statistics released by the Border Patrol 1 in 30 vehicles crossing the Mexican/American border are checked. Do you really think that is adequate? Do you honestly think that ratio will go up when there are 5 times as many Mexican trucks crossing every day?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 8, 2007 at 07:58 am

Border Patrol personnel are being disciplined, prosecuted, and sued by foreign nationals for doing their jobs of enforcing our border security. Open the border and do you really think that situation is going to improve?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 8, 2007 at 08:01 am
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Oh, sure, NAFTA and CAFTA exist.  But there’s no North American Union.  That’s isolationist bullshit.

And if we need more inspections of Mexican trucks coming into the US then we need more inspections.  But that’s not a good enough reason to say that the trucks can’t come in.

Free trade, baby.  Gonna make more jobs and our goods cheaper.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 8, 2007 at 08:28 am

Rob: The difference between free trade with Mexico and illegal immigration from Mexico is simple: With free trade, we get something valuable in return; with illegal immigration, we don’t.  The illegals come here to take from us.  They should stay home and work to make their home country better.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 8, 2007 at 08:39 am

Unions have served their purpose. Now all unions are are mouth pieces for the DNC and a PAC. Some union employees are complaining that their union dues are supporting political parties they don’t support.

Also, Union protect employees that should have other wise been terminated a long time ago.


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goon on April 8, 2007 at 10:38 am
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Quite right, Robert.  And the beauty of free trade with Mexico is that it helps Mexico as well as us.  We get cheaper goods and more efficient commerce, Mexico gets less encumbered access to our market.  Which, in the long run, will make Mexico’s economy better which, in turn, will drive fewer Mexicans to illegal immigration.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 8, 2007 at 10:46 am

Rob: Quite right.  Just about the only way for developing nations to acquire capital is to trade what they have with developed nations.  It’s mutually beneficial, or no transaction takes place.  Basic econ.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 8, 2007 at 11:39 am

Rob writes:

By the way, Puzzled, still waiting to hear about why you’re fine with letting illegals in but not Mexican truckers.

As usual Rob, you mischaracterize my view of immigration. You tell me Rob,since you think you know my opinion already since you asked the question that way.

Puzzlefeet on April 8, 2007 at 11:53 am

P: If you could put aside our victim rap for a minute and just answer the question, you might just regain some credibility on the subject.  Nobody’s oppressing you here; we just doubt that you have a logical answer.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 8, 2007 at 12:13 pm

When the question is asked appropriately I will be more than willing to answer.  I don’t care what you think my credibility but you are waiting with baited breath for me to answer though since you keep bringing it up.

Fair and balanced ain’t the tone of the question.

Puzzlefeet on April 8, 2007 at 12:28 pm

it’s akin to:  “when did you stop beating your wife?”

Puzzlefeet on April 8, 2007 at 12:28 pm

More BS, and still no answer.  You obviously can’t answer without exposing your hypocrisy.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 8, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Going out to Easter dinner, keep waiting R108.  Rob knows what he needs to do.

Puzzlefeet on April 8, 2007 at 12:54 pm
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Ok, Puzzle, why amnesty for illegal immigrants who jump the border and no access for Mexican truckers who enter our country legally?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 8, 2007 at 12:57 pm

Rob, I think my stance on immigration is well known on this site.  Again, your definition of amnesty and my definition are not the same.  You think anything short of all illegals leaving this country no matter how long they have been here is amnesty.  I don’t.  Most readers here can go back and read my stance on the immigration issue.

As to the trucker issue, there is no doubt that the Teamsters are worried about the loss of jobs and the loss of wages for their members.  There are also other issues at play here as well.

Our government has not set up the proper cross border transportation safeguards that our truckers have to live by.  To name a few:  hours of driving service, a comprehensive drug and alcohol program for those coming across the border; comprehensive motor carrier safety programs. Mexico has not set up these comprehensive programs and that is why the Teamsters and other are opposing the opening of the borders past the 50 mile program already in place.

Also not to mention that the labor movement is opposed to NAFTA. 

Now talk amongst yourselves.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 03:44 pm

...the labor movement is opposed to NAFTA.

After all that BS, you finally answer the question truthfully.  Congratulations!

The Union Bosses say “Jump!” and you say, “How high?”


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 9, 2007 at 04:57 pm

As the right wing whack job organization says Hey, r108, will you write more right wing whack opinion on Say Anything?  Sure says R108.

You forgot that I am a union boss in your mind.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 05:29 pm

You forgot that I am a union boss in your mind.

How can I forget when you give non-responsive “answers” to simple questions(a day later) and engage in juvenile namecalling?


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 9, 2007 at 06:54 pm

As opposed to your sophomoric rhetoric.  You are simply too too funny.  Like momma says, looks who’s calling the kettle black!

Unlike you R108, I don’t sit around all day waiting on my computer and perhaps you should go back and read my response.  Hmmm....yesterday was Easter and I believe I let you all know that I was going out to dinner.  Sorry I don’t live by your timetable.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 07:00 pm

Excuses, excuses!  You just can’t give an honest answer, can you?  Actually, I think Rob originally asked you the question two days ago, on another thread.
No matter; you follow what your handlers tell you to do, period.  You don’t think for yourself.  No surprise.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 9, 2007 at 07:08 pm
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Our government has not set up the proper cross border transportation safeguards that our truckers have to live by.  To name a few:  hours of driving service, a comprehensive drug and alcohol program for those coming across the border; comprehensive motor carrier safety programs. Mexico has not set up these comprehensive programs and that is why the Teamsters and other are opposing the opening of the borders past the 50 mile program already in place.

So, you union minions are just fine with the millions of illegal immigrants flooding into this country without any sort of background checks or screening processes.  Just let ‘em all in, and if they don’t get caught let ‘em stay as long as they want.

But with the truckers, who are just trying to make some money doing a legitimate and necessary job, you want regulation, etc.

And you speak this hypocrisy with a straight face.

And no, I’m not mischaracterizing your immigration stance.  Until I hear you say that you want to secure the border, and until I hear you criticize your Dems for opposing efforts to do so, you’re an open-borders zealot.

You’re trying to hide that now because your stance on illegals is inconvenient for your stance on the truckers, but whatever.  It’s not like you’re an honest person or anything like that.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 9, 2007 at 07:15 pm

Poor poor baby, can’t get his way, so he whines and moans and whines and moans.  Your problem is that you can’t handle when someone doesn’t follow your directions. Just like the daddy who demands things done his way even when the children are all grown up.

If you don’t like my answers please feel free to move along.  And please stop the whining, it is so unbecoming of you.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 07:16 pm

Puzzled seems to be getting defensive.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 9, 2007 at 07:20 pm
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She does, doesn’t she?  I think she’s mad that she’s been called out on this, and her answers are so lame as to be laughable.

I understand that she and I will never see eye-to-eye on most labor issues, but she should at least recognize the hypocrisy going on here.  Any honest person would.

It’s like she’s trying to tell us that the sky is really orange or something, or that carbon offsets really help stop global warming.  People just aren’t going to buy that.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 9, 2007 at 07:23 pm

If you don’t like my answers please feel free to move along.  And please stop the whining, it is so unbecoming of you.

It takes you two days to come up with a BS answer to a very simple question, and you whine like a victim.  Not so good.  You are dishonest, and are looking around for someone else to blame to take the spotlight of truth off of you.  Won’t work.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 9, 2007 at 07:23 pm

Puzzlefeet said, Poor poor baby, can’t get his way, so he whines and moans and whines and moans.

Puzzlefeet is describing how her union operates when it doesn’t get their way. They whine and moan. (And destroy private property. And intimidate private citizens. And employ mafia-like tactics. All which are much worse than mere whining and moaning.)

Your problem is that you can’t handle when someone doesn’t follow your directions. Just like the daddy who demands things done his way even when the children are all grown up.

Again, without a hint of irony, Puzzlefeet is describing how her union operates.

If you don’t like my answers please feel free to move along.  And please stop the whining, it is so unbecoming of you.

Why don’t you take your own advice Puzzlefeet?

Surprise us all and renounce your union hypocrisy. Take your own words and apply them to yourself.

likwidshoe on April 9, 2007 at 07:31 pm

We really shouldn’t get on Princess P’s case here: she is just following orders from her union leaders.  No amount of propaganda spin can cover up their essential contradiction here: They want to close the border to business, but keep it open for illegal immigration.  One must ask: Why?
As many have pointed out, illegal immigration has numerous economic and social bad effects on the US, and free trade with Mexico might, because it would aid the Mexican economy, tend to relieve the conditions that lead to the illegal invasion.  Who, in their right mind, would be for preventing business and enabling illegal immigration?  Inquiring minds want to know.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on April 9, 2007 at 07:34 pm

You are all so predictable. My stance is well known on immigration Rob on this site, and you know it.

We do disagree on this issue and will continue to disagree all your demands aside. Your continuing mischaracterizing of my position on immigration is so typical.

Lik, is that the best you have.  I’ve heard it time and time again, and obviously I’m not going to change my position on unions and you won’t be changing yours so we’ll just have to continue disagreeing.  I beleive what I believe and you believe what you believe and we’ll all continue to spar here.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 07:48 pm

Lik, is that the best you have.  I’ve heard it time and time again, and obviously I’m not going to change my position on unions and you won’t be changing yours so we’ll just have to continue disagreeing.

Wrong. You’re allowed to disagree with me. On the converse, I’m not allowed to disagree with you. You’ll piss, moan and whine and use the government to force people to accept your shitty little union club into the workplace. We all know what happens to employers who disagree with you. The government gets involved and forces them to hire your thugs. Freedom of association? Forget about it.

So don’t act as if we’re on equal footing here. I’m playing by gentleman’s rules of disagreement. You’re employing mafia tactics.

likwidshoe on April 9, 2007 at 07:53 pm

Now that was funny.  You all have a great night.  We’ll spar again another night. It’s been fun.

Puzzlefeet on April 9, 2007 at 07:59 pm

Now that was funny.

Yes. It’s always funny when we specifically lay out your hypocrisies and then watch as you shrug it off. It’s obvious that you can’t answer for the double standards you employ.

Puzzlefeet, your idea fails in the marketplace of ideas. The only way you have been able to grow unions in this country is to force people to accept them and to force government employees to be unionized.

Which is why I always find it amusing when you bitch about someone you proclaim to be whining and moaning. Not only is that exactly what you’re doing, but you’re also using deadly government force.

But that’s just “funny”. Keep laughing, you pathetic clown. One day people will start to employ your tactics and you won’t be laughing anymore.

likwidshoe on April 9, 2007 at 08:04 pm
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Puzzle, how about you just state your position on illegal immigration for us again instead of being so coy about it?

Do you support a border fence?  Do you support sealing the border by other means?  Do you support allowing illegals already in this country access to citizenship?  Do you support entitlements and other government services for illegals?

Just tell us what your position is so we can compare it to your position on the Mexican truckers and then highlights what a pathetic hypocrite you are.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 9, 2007 at 08:08 pm

Rob,
No, I don’t support a border fence I support border enforcement as you already knew.  Yes, I support allowing illegal immigrants a “path to citizenship” also as you already knew.  In some cases, I do support government entitlements and other government services for illegals specifically the children who are born in this country.  Oh, I know that you will claim illegals immigrants will be reward for criminal behavior.  But there is a lot of blame to go around for all from business to labor unions to the government.  I don’ believe that people that have come here and made a life here have citizen children should have everthing they worked for stripped from them.  I just don’t and I know that is where we part company.

Border security is important and I have stated that I didn’t believe that a wall would work nor would it ever be built. 

I think the problem with illegal immigration is not just with our borders.  Mexico is rife with internal structural problems,a weak education system, a corrupt judicial and law enforcement system, corrupt governments in local areas, a weak labor market issues, serious poverty and very few job opportunites for a better life.  Mexico and other countries like Guatamala and other Central American countries need to work with us to find economic developmen opportunities.  Enforcement of labor laws that protect workers is necessary and is not part of any treaty such as NAFTA or FTAA.  We should also direct our economic development aid to areas where the immigrants are coming from.

That is where I stand.

Puzzlefeet on April 10, 2007 at 04:34 pm

But there is a lot of blame to go around for all from business to labor unions to the government.

There you go smearing business.  As I pointed out in this post the government has made it illegal for employers to enforce the law which they are supposed to enforce.

Why the enforcement of immigration was left solely to private (mostly) business is beyond me. 

So you have people sneaking into this country using fake ID’s to steal jobs from Americans and you’re ready to reward them with citizenship. 

I guess I won’t convince you Puzzled, but in my opinion that is as wrong as wrong can be.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 10, 2007 at 05:04 pm

Whistler, you’re right, we are not going to agree, I don’t look at it as rewarding the immigrant.  I don’t believe that an illegal immigrant should lose a home they purchased through a bank, nor should their citizen children have to forgo the benefits of being an American. I think the punishment should be reasonable and not draconian. 

I simply don’t believe that someone who has been here for 10-15-20 years should lose everything he or she has worked for.

So we’ll just have to disagree.

Puzzlefeet on April 10, 2007 at 07:15 pm

Unions, like Democrats will do anything to get power.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on April 10, 2007 at 07:21 pm

I don’t believe that an illegal immigrant should lose a home they purchased through a bank,

How in the world would an illegal alien purchase a home through a bank?  I’m pretty sure my mortgage was only obtained with my social security number.

nor should their citizen children have to forgo the benefits of being an American.

Strawman argument.  I for one never said anything different.  The United States Constitution says they are United States citizens and that’s good enough for me.

Deport their parents butts sure.

I think the punishment should be reasonable and not draconian.

Exactly, no penalty at all, just return them where they belong.  Certainly that’s no draconian by any reaonable stretch of the imagination.

See we can agree on some things.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 10, 2007 at 08:13 pm
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Rob,
If you think having Mexican trucks on our highways is a good thing, you are a moron.  Who said we have to help Mexico anyway?  No one, but your global handlers have told you it is a good thing so you regurgitate it here.  More cheap labor taking American’s jobs.
saxxet

saxxet on April 13, 2007 at 10:45 am

Another leftie ignoramus.  There are no “American’s jobs”.  Jobs are created by entrepreneurs willing to put up the capital to make a business happen.  If conditions are favorable in America(and they generally are), those jobs will be created in America.  If America becomes so infested with leftie ideology(taxes, regulations, labor unions), conditions will become unfavorable, and the jobs will move to where conditions are favorable.  We are not “helping” Mexico by trading with them.  By definition, such trading is mutually beneficial, otherwise it wouldn’t happen, since economic transactions(in our system) are voluntary.


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robert108 on April 13, 2007 at 10:51 am
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Who said we have to help Mexico anyway?

Who says we’re just helping Mexico?  Cheaper, more efficient commerce helps us all.  Plus, helping out Mexico’s economy means fewer illegal immigrants as economic conditions there get better.

We’re helping ourselves.  Helping Mexico is just icing on the cake.

your global handlers have told you it is a good thing so you regurgitate it here

Global handlers?  Are you serious?

Nobody tells me what to say.

More cheap labor taking American’s jobs.

No, more cheap labor to make goods and services for Americans cheaper.  Which will leave them with more money in their pockets to spend and will, in turn, create more jobs.

You gotta quit looking at this stuff so one-dimensionally.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 13, 2007 at 10:55 am
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I am probably right of both of you, and globalism is a leftist ideology.  You probably think jorge is a conservative!  lol

I can remember not very long ago seeing bumper stickers that read ‘buy American’, and I do believe that this was the strongest country on earth and we were 95% self sufficient.  I guess you will say that is leftist or isolationist or protectionist.  Protectionist sounds like a good thing unless you like foreign