MoF&D,

The logistic buildup for the invasion of Georgia started MONTHS ago. The active cyber-war started a month before the actual Russian invasion. Quite the odd coincidences, those.

There was ample warning that Georgia was planning a response to provocation by the South Ossetian separatists. One hardly needs to invoke any deep theory about how the Russian force build up initiated.

I still think in this case the preponderance of evidence is that Georgia evoked a Russian response, even if the provocation was to an action equivalent to tossing Briar Rabbit into the briar patch…

And this story is typical of the problems in separating out the extremists on either side. I don’t argue that the South Ossetians played their own part in the unfolding of this story, particularly by ethnic cleansing of their own and by bombardment of Georgian border towns…

I don’t believe you. We have deep ideological differences.Ever since WWII, the U.S. has been itching to tangle with the USSR.
Maybe you ought to read the article in Sunday’s GF Herald by a Russian expert. It may be enlightening.

The Georgia conflict isn’t going to be over any time soon.

That’s just the way you conservatives would like it, isn’t it?

Vardo Babutidze, 79, was not lucky enough to be visited by Russian soldiers. Her husband Georgi, 85, was shot twice through the chest by an Ossetian paramilitary who came to their house to demand weapons.

“Ossetian paramilitary”, huh? Seems like the South Ossetians weren’t the poor, defenseless victims our Russian apologist friends would have us believe.

Just as importantly, this points how the very first thing any aggressor will do is try to disarm the civilians who are to be conquered. The significance of the US’ Constitution’s Second Amendment can NOT be over-emphasized.

I’d say that the gloryness of the cover depends in large part, if not exclusively, on your pr management skills. BBC took Russia’s bait, and the rest of us followed suit. In other words, we only know what we read in the news and, this time around, we might be quite far from the truth of it.

Mano,

Again, if I ever feel the need to have someone else put words in my mouth, I’ll be sure to keep you in mind. Meantime, if you are intent on spreading inflamatory innuendo, at least have the balls to do so on your own volition, rather than imputing your belligerence to others… in this case me!

I said nothing about, murders, Muslims, or terrorists, though I can’t help thinking that shooting an apparently unarmed 85 year-old just might qualify as murder. Don’t you agree?

2H9, Georgia (in fact the entire region) has been in a state of flux for millenia not merely the two centuries that you maintain. To ascribe the actions of Russia as the sole cause of the situation in the Caucasus and particularly in Georgia is narrow minded and short sighted. Conducting research and formulating my own opinion (which leads me to conclude that the situation is more complicated than a simple Russian drive for hegemony over the region) is not tantamount to aiding and abetting the Russians, despite what you may think. I do not pretend to hold my views – I hold them because I study and evaluate a situation and draw my own conclusions about it, rather than listening to one-sided hyperbole.

Yes, let’s tar all Ossetians with the same brush. Some of them have decided to take up arms, so we’ll brand them all as murderous types to justify our position. Of course, half of them are Muslims, so they must be terrorists.

What a load of nonsense.

Here’s a brush to clean out that big box of stupid that’s where your brain should be.

ManofF&L:

please support your assertions with citations

Like this one?

“Did Russia Plan It’s War With Georgia?”

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2008/08/mil-080815-rferl07.htm

Rodney, please support your assertions with citations. Am I to take you at your word alone?

Flamer, where did I say anything about 200 years?

My point is that it’s probably best to halt on any qualifiers (Georgia did this, Russia did that) until the knot has been untied a bit. Otherwise, the blogosphere is doing nothing more than propagating and prolonging Russia’s cover. Where MSM often runs the risk of being stupid, the blogosphere runs an equal risk of irresponsibility.

Bat One,
The deep ideological divisions I speak about is Communism vs Democracy. I am sure I do not have to explain that. Since WWII our main foreign policy has been to contain the spread of Communism. The only reason we have not pulled the trigger long ago was the fear of an all-out nuclear war.

Rodney, re cyber war, the original blog posting had this to say:

My experiment also might shed some light on why the recent cyberwar has been so hard to pin down and why no group in particular has claimed responsibility. Paranoid that the Kremlin’s hand is everywhere, we risk underestimating the great patriotic rage of many ordinary Russians, who, having been fed too much government propaganda in the last few days, are convinced that they need to crash Georgian Web sites. Many Russians undoubtedly went online to learn how to make mischief, as I did. Within an hour, they, too, could become cyberwarriors.

Of course there is evidence of Russian troop movements within the Caucasus in the days, weeks, months and even years leading up to this war. This is one of the most unsettled regions of the Russian Federation and troops will be a very active presence in the region, if only to remind people that they are still there and won’t take any shit, particularly from the Chechens who fought a long-running war with them for years. Couple that with the confrontational rhetoric that has been coming out of the mouths of Saakashvili and his cronies in Tblisi for the last couple of years and one can hardly be surprised that the Russians had some troops nearby.

And from this we are to extrapolate that Russia never had any contact with Georgia prior to 1801?

Never? That’s a little extreme. There is not evidence for Russian intervention in the region prior to its annexation in 1801 Trade does not qualify as intervention.

From the fifteenth through to the eighteenth century, Georgia was the battle ground for a protracted war between the Turks and the Persians. Russian ascendancy in the late seventeenth century made that nation appear an attractive ally.

Erekle II, king of [Georgia (as was)] from 1762 to 1798, turned towards Russia for protection against Ottoman and Persian attacks. The Russian empress Catherine the Great was keen to have the Georgians as allies in her wars against the Turks.

sparkless-arse-fuckin-buckle,

If we find we really are in need of shit, we know where to find you and will dispatch someone with a shovel.

We conservatives would like the Russians to stop murdering civilians. We’d also like for Georgia to be a little more dedicated to democracy.

We also recognize that sometimes the only thing people who murder civilians understand is a bit of force.

I’m not anxious to send troops into Georgia at all, but I’m not anxious to see Russian aggression go on unchecked either.

The papers have been full of apologists for the Russian regime. Much like Neville Chamberlain, they’d rather try and explain away the threat an aggressive Russia poses than address it.

Ever since WWII, the U.S. has been itching to tangle with the USSR.

If that were trued we’d have gone to war with Russia long ago.

Thankfully, it’s just the delusion of a blinkered partisan.

randy grapes.
how long have you been on the shill for the KGB?

Both sides here seem to be engaged in ethnic cleansing.

Perhaps. I’m not suggesting that Georgia has entirely clean hands. But only one side used the otherside’s actions as a pretext for empire-building.