Time To Go Over The Fiscal Cliff?


The first hints at what fiscal cliff deal may look like are pretty ugly. Massive tax hikes up front with paltry spending cuts scheduled for years and even decades from now. Reports are that President Obama isn’t going to budget from his tax hikes position.

So Jim Geragthy writes that perhaps it’s time to let America go over the cliff:

At this moment, Republicans in Congress need to examine which presents a more dire threat to the country:
A) A double-dip recession driven by the sequester and the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, or

B) the public’s belief (verified through polling) that our giant debt, our ticking time bomb of entitlements, and our gargantuan government can be solved by “asking the richest Americans to pay a little bit more,” as Obama insists.

Option A is terrible, but Option B is the giant locked door blocking all of the real solutions.

So if we must have tax hikes, let the tax cuts for every income level expire and let everyone of every income level pay higher taxes. Destroy the illusion among so many voters that they can get all the government they want without paying more in taxes.

Limbaugh, too, says it’s time for Republicans to walk away.

…the only leverage that I can see that they’ve got is to back out of this and make sure that whatever happens, they don’t have any fingerprints on it. I know what you’re saying, and you’d be right. You’re saying, “But, Rush, but, Rush, no matter what the Republicans do, they’re gonna get blamed for it.” Yes, totally true. No matter what happens. If there is a reported recession, in fact, it will be said to be the Republicans in the House fault. No matter what happens, that’s going to be said, and no matter what happens, as we sit here now, the American people, the majority of whom, are gonna believe that.

As painful as the expiration of the Bush tax cuts would be, as much as it would hurt our economy, there’s something to be said for allowing all Americans feel the pinch of expansive government spending.

Obama’s plan is to allow this fairy tale of ever-growing government paid for with other people’s money to expire. Republicans, of course, are very sensitive to being blamed for the economic downturn that would result from this. And they should be, because that would absolutely happen, but long-term it may be time for some tough fiscal medicine for the nation.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters.

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  • HG

    I’m of the opinion that republicans and conservatives should stand their ground. Obama has the Senate and he’ll likely get enough moderates to join him in the house. Stand your ground and let the chips fall where they may. When it comes crashing down, and we all know the plan will, the dems and just a very few moderates will be to blame. I wouldn’t touch Obama’s ‘tax now, cut later’ plan with a ten foot pole. When was the last time the dems kept such a promise? They lied to Reagan and they lied to Bush senior. They won’t cut anything. Hell, at the most they’ll reduce the automatic increases slightly and then lie and call it a cut.

    Just do the right thing.

    • $8194357

      We aren’t playing with the same set of rules….
      We haven’t for over 100 years………..
      They switched to three card monty long ago when
      we were left the illusion of a Constitutional Republic.

    • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

      ‘tax now, cut later’ Obama has been beating up the right for months about not having a “balanced” plan of both spending cuts and tax increases. For the Dems to insist on tax increases without cuts, is the rankest of hypocrisy… and totally in keeping with their character.

  • Onslaught1066

    Ye Haw!


  • $8194357



    The “Illusion of national sovereignty”.

    sov·er·eign·ty /ˈsɒv rɪn ti, ˈsʌv-/ Show Spelled [sov-rin-tee, suhv-] Show IPA
    noun, plural sov·er·eign·ties.

    the quality or state of being sovereign.

    the status, dominion, power, or authority of a sovereign; royalty.

    supreme and independent power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community.

    rightful status, independence, or prerogative.

    a sovereign state, community, or political unit.

    1300–50; Middle English soverainte < Anglo-French sovereynete
    ( Old French soverainete ),
    equivalent to soverain sovereign + -ete -ty2


    "Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11..
    Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in world history, the U.S. Government.
    We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future.
    There are some who say it is a coroner’s report that will lead to our demise.

    It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 – Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.

    The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: "The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States?’

    Gold and silver were such a powerful money during the founding of the united states of America, that the founding fathers declared that only gold or silver coins can be "money" in America. Since gold and silver coinage were heavy and inconvenient for a lot of transactions, they were stored in banks and a claim check was issued as a money substitute. People traded their coupons as money, or "currency." Currency is not money, but a money substitute. Redeemable currency must promise to pay a dollar equivalent in gold or silver money. Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) make no such promises, and are not "money." A Federal Reserve Note is a debt obligation of the federal United States government, not "money?’ The federal United States government and the U.S. Congress were not and have never been authorized by the Constitution for the united states of America to issue currency of any kind, but only lawful money, -gold and silver coin.

    It is essential that we comprehend the distinction between real money and paper money substitute. One cannot get rich by accumulating money substitutes, one can only get deeper into debt. We the People no longer have any "money." Most Americans have not been paid any "money" for a very long time, perhaps not in their entire life. Now do you comprehend why you feel broke? Now, do you understand why you are "bankrupt," along with the rest of the country?

    Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are unsigned checks written on a closed account. FRNs are an inflatable paper system designed to create debt through inflation (devaluation of currency). when ever there is an increase of the supply of a money substitute in the economy without a corresponding increase in the gold and silver backing, inflation occurs.

    Inflation is an invisible form of taxation that irresponsible governments inflict on their citizens. The Federal Reserve Bank who controls the supply and movement of FRNs has everybody fooled. They have access to an unlimited supply of FRNs, paying only for the printing costs of what they need. FRNs are nothing more than promissory notes for U.S. Treasury securities (T-Bills) – a promise to pay the debt to the Federal Reserve Bank.

    End quote

    "A thing called by another name"
    Ya don't need to be a "natural born American" to be POTUS
    under the international government in control, huh……

    So what do you think got JFK shot?
    EO puting Treasury Note silver cerificates back in circulation, perhaps?

  • Rick Olson

    Grover Norquist be da**ed!! I can’t figure out how one man holds such undue influence over an entire branch of government? The Democrats and the Republicans have got to come together on this or there will be lots of far reaching effects that even the experts haven’t touched upon yet!!

  • Fatalerror94

    I have to disagree with Rush’s statements about the majority of voters, specifically that they are voting for what they want.

    No, they are voting for what they “think” they want, because they are being inundated by a pop culture that is feeding them only one message, that collectivism is good and Government control is the way things should be. And any contrary message is simply the outmoded ideals of ignorant, greedy and bigoted people.

    I would ask Rush, well, what is the alternative? Do we give up? Since a majority of voters want a socialist nation, we should let them have it? Even though we know the consequences of such a society? Even though those of us that know better will be dragged down into ruin with them?

    No, we educate them, but to do that we must first take back the pop culture. I’m reminded of the scene in the movie True Lies, When Arnold Schwarzenegger character discovers that his daughter is stealing money, about how shocked and disappointed his was, but then his partner played by Tom Arnold tells him that his traditional values are up against Madonna and MTV, that he his out gunned. That is exactly the situation with conservatism and the free market message is in today. Someone once side that it was a mistake for conservatives to surrender the pop culture without a fight in the sixties, they were right.

    Conservatives are making very little outreach to the younger generation. When I went to my local republican headquarters to registrar for the vote, the one thing that stood out to me was how old every one who came through the door was. I’m 34 and I was easily the youngest person there. That has to change.

    Take back the culture.

    • sbark

      To educate them….you’d have to match the funds the left pours into education form kindergartern thru colleges, as that is the foundation of their ideological push, then on top of that you’d have to match them in viewership of ABC,CBS, NBS and CNN………then……..
      …….are you willing to go to the same lengths the Dem’cats are in terms of lying and distortion, and damageing images about our culture.
      The youth has received an continous message since the 60’s on how evil capitalism is, how anyone successful has esentially stolen it or used someone to obtain it. People get Palinized, Bork’d, Thomas’d over and over– there are many good people who wont run because of that threat.
      Why does one think the OWS “movement” this last summer focues on anyone who is successful or producers———–vrs. the actual cause of their generation problems: the Dem’cats, with their decade long push for a permanent dependency class and whine of class envy (covetting other peoples property).

      • Fatalerror94

        If you have any, you are the first bulwark against you kids indoctrination by the schools and pop culture. If you can, take them out of the public educational system and home school them. Get involved with their lives, do you know the names of their friends? what circles they hangout in? Talk about issues at the dinner table. If they do not agree with you on something debate them, but do not berate or belittle them, otherwise it will only make them reflexively harden their stance on the issue regardless of its merits. Use reason, be patient and consider their point of view. When they are old enough make sure they attend a college that teaches practical skills, rather than socialist, anti-American dogma.

        If conservatives and libertarians that are working in the arts produce quality work, promote them, spread the word, but only if what they are doing is any good. If you promote crap just because the person who does it happens to be conservative then people well eventually just tune you out. You don’t want that.

        You fight them by fighting them and never giving up. You do it if you have a trillion dollars to burn or even if you are penniless, you fight, fight, fight. I know that sounds trite but think about it; American Socialist progressives have been around for at least a hundred years now, for about half of that time they where underground, methodically working towards general acceptance. Slowly, at first, they infiltrated news rooms. Then, during the cultural upheaval of the sixties they seized the pop culture. Now, we are where they were a hundred years ago. But the one thing we have that they did not is the truth. If I have a message that I have to lie about to promote then I couldn’t promote it anyway. I stand by liberty and free markets because I believe in my deepest hart that these things make life better for the biggest number of people possible then any other system of governance that we could employ.

  • Spartacus

    Let’s go ahead with running off the cliff. Most of the tax burden I’d see could be minimized by adjusting pre tax deductions such as my 401-k contribution. The only people to be seriously hurt are those Obama and the Democrats claim to be helping.

  • sbark

    Going over the fiscal cliff is actually the desire of the radical left…..always has been, but with the plausible deniability of the GOP controlled house.

    The confiscation of 401k is again sprouting as something only the “rich” have and that of course is not fair………following are recent articles on that squeeze of the succesfull.

    The Atlantic: The 401(k) Is a $240 Billion Waste

    TIME: Fiscal Cliff: Why Congress Might Have to Mess with the 401(k)

    IBD: Does Government Want To Drain Americans’ 401(k) Plan?

    We dont have a indebted population, but we do have a bankrupt govt and ruling class. Problem is, via force, they will drain the private sector bone arse dry before they will even consider change in their spending habits.

    • Spartacus

      If the gov’t tries to confiscate 401-k’s simply roll over to an I.R.A., it’s easy. I’ve done it several times.

      • sbark

        Is not a 401k specific to a particular job. If you continue to be employed at a job, not sure you can roll it to a IRA while still being employed.
        Yes, 401k can be rolled to a ira after leaving a particular employer or moving to a self employed status, but not while a person is under continuous employment at the same job/employer…..correct me gently if i’m wrong

        • Deficit Hawk

          This only partially correct. The want to end the tax deferment and cap contribution at 5% with no employer contribution. This amounts to $240 billion in income taxes annually. Would would keep what you have in it but your unrealized tax liability would be taken of the top. So you would get about 60% to 80% depending on how much you have. This would include IRA’s.

  • WOOF

    The last time Republicans had a hissy fit over the debt ceiling
    they were spanked and sent to their rooms without supper.
    Republicans are dancing with themselves.

    “Paul Ryan said failure to raise the ceiling is
    “unworkable… obviously you can’t default””

  • camsaure

    The result from the spending deal the Republicans made with the Dems coming home to bite them in the a$$. This was brought to us by the likes of Boehner and Rick Berg.

  • chris

    In other words, “since I can’t get my way, I’ll pull the whole country down with me”. I haven’t see this kind of childishness since middle school.

    • http://sayanything.flywheelsites.com Rob

      Well, to be fair, isn’t Obama doing the same thing by refusing to agree to needed spending cuts?

      • $16179444

        nah, its only the big bad GOP – Obama can do no wrong.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      obama’s spending is unsustainable. we are bankrupt now. the democrats own it. so be it.

    • HG

      So if Republicans don’t participate the dem actions will take the whole country down? Tell us something we don’t already know.

  • chris

    Let’s damage the economy so we can blame Obama.

  • borborygmi

    Let her rip. Taxes Up Spending down and deficit starts coming down .

    • two_amber_lamps

      Dems are only going to agree to “taxes up”…

      They will not touch their sacred cow entitlements which more than any war are the source of out-of-control spending.

  • mickey_moussaoui

    The republicans need to go obama and vote “present”. Let everyone feel the pain equally. Drop this mess in his lap where it began. A double dip recession, you own it Democrats. I have news for the Republicans…obama will blame you no matter what. Even if you give him 100% of what he asks he will blame you. Just ask Bush. Call obama’s bluff. I’d rather pay a couple of years of additional taxes and watch his legacy go up in smoke than become part of a liberal socialist utopia.

    F B O

  • RCND

    We went over the cliff when it was decided free stuff is more important that freedom, and the individual was no longer primarily responsible for tending to their own needs and wants. From that moment forward it only became a matter of time. We have completely thrown our kids and their kids (if they are crazy enough to bring them into this messed up world) under the financial bus. The best we can hope for under the current regime (both parties… and both own plenty of blame for this) is the can will just get kicked down the road a little further.

  • mickey_moussaoui

    Anyway you look at it, we will go over the cliff. I say “walk away Republicans”. This is obama’s legacy, walk away, far far away.

  • Random Passerby

    I’m with the others that say ‘Vote present and let it happen’.
    Again, as other have noted, R’s will be blamed regardless. Once that fact is establised, it is easy to stop caring. Let it happen.
    Sequestration, coupled with ObamaCare will be an…interesting event to observe. But at least there will be ‘free’ health care.

  • nimrod

    At this point, going over the cliff is the only option. Any deal pushed by the liberals delays spending cuts to the future where they can’t guarantee they will happen. Going with the automatic option is the fairest way to go, even though it is stupid.