Say Anything Blog

Pll. You do not live in Israel. You are an outsider, and do not know what is best for Israel. .
Not only that you are an instigator trying to inflame peoples emotions. Instigators keep the situation inflamed and nothing good comes out of the violence that follows.
We heard you the first time. You disagreed with Israels decision. Well it seems that on this one Israel disagrees with you.

We heard you the first time. You disagreed with Israels decision. Well it seems that on this one Israel disagrees with you.

Actually, if you check it out I think you’ll find that many Israelis agree with me.

And I’m not trying to instigate anything. I’m expressing my opinion, which happens to include my disgust and disdain for this.

I don’t get it. Period.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pll. You do not live in Israel. You are an outsider, and do not know what is best for Israel. .
Not only that you are an instigator trying to inflame peoples emotions. Instigators keep the situation inflamed and nothing good comes out of the violence that follows.
We heard you the first time. You disagreed with Israels decision. Well it seems that on this one Israel disagrees with you.

Ellinas there is no way you can defend this animal, he should have been lined up against a wall and shot or executed in a gas chamber for war crimes.

Also the part that really burns my ass is that fact that these Israelis soldiers that were released were brought home in boxes while this ass hole got to leave alive, hum who is the more human? That says a lot about the type of animals, criminals, derelicts Hezbollah are.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Not being in Israel does not disqualify someone as knowing what is best for Israel. Obviously, the Israeli’s have the freedom to make their own decisions in their own interests; but the prisoner trades have always been grossly uneven, usually dead Israeli’s for live murderous Islamic terrorists. Thus, to the outside that does not make a lot of sense and that was Pilgrim’s context.

Hell saying hello today can inflame the emotions of someone; but, let us say it did in this case, inflame who? Instigate what? Let’s be specfic or such a charge is meaningless.

I think you are off base this time, Pilgrim made wholly innocent observations about what appears to be a stupid Israeli policy and I agree with his general statements.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

ellinas, I have never felt compelled to opin on your comments because you seem to get enough flack from others here. Well, not tonight.
Let me tell you something, your comment was the most stupid ass thing I think you’ve ever said.
And that my friend, is pert near impossible for you to accomplish.

goon. I am not defending anyone. I don’t know why you would even go there other than to make a cheap point.

Pil. I am sure that many Israelis agree with you.
But you are not Israeli. Are you? We know that the violence in the region is instigated by outsiders through financial and or inflamatory rhetoric. You say you don’t get it. Of course you don’t. You don’t live there yet you want your views to prevail. Not good.

Neiman. My point is simple. What you and others think is best for Israel, may not be best for Israel.
First of all they don’t share the apocalyptic views of many evangelical Christians. So the interests of the two diverge right there. Remember the outcry by Israelis against P. Robertson when he declared that God punished Ariel Sharon because he gave Jewish land to the Palestinians. They told him to butt out. They believe their dead are worth more then the terrorists they released. So all this outrage does nothing. It is not in the best interest of Israel.

Ellinas my friend: This time you are just off base. When did Pilgrim get so powerful he is able to force his views on others or inflame emotions in that hell between Israel and the so-called palestinians?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Anna. Disagree with me all you want. You and others are not Israelis.

But you are not Israeli.

Neither are you, so why are you being an instigator?

This is a predictable outcome of negotiating from a position of weakness.

It is not in the best interest of Israel.

How would you know?  By your own “logic”, you are just another outside “instigator”!

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Neiman good friend of mine.Instigators are not allways powerfull.I am not off base.

BTW, ignoramus; disagreeing with your opinions doesn’t make someone an “instigator”.  I guess that’s just another word whose meaning you don’t know.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Ellinas:

Simple test. Just look into this guy’s eyes and then tell me I’m wrong. In fact, there are other pictures all over the web right now. Look at any of them, look at the eyes, and tell me what you think.

Just sayin’.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pil he does not look good. His eyes look crazy.
But once again. The Israelis value their live and dead more than him. This is not about him. This is about Israels dead soldiers.

Pil he does not look good. His eyes look crazy.
But once again. The Israelis value their live and dead more than him. This is not about him. This is about Israels dead soldiers.

Yes! Pilgrim simply questions the wisdom of that policy!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

This prisoner swap was an inequitable at best. You may ask, how should Israeli have made this equatable? Kill the prisoners that they had. Now, that’s what I call ‘fair and balanced.’

This is not about him.

This guy bashed in the head of a four year old Israeli girl out of pure Jew hatred, and you want to ignore him.
That’s despicable!

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108,

This guy bashed in the head of a four year old Israeli girl out of pure Jew hatred, and you want to ignore him.
That’s despicable!

If that’s true, then he should die a VERY slow death. Makes me sick to even think about it.

Where are Russia, France, the European Union, and many so-called “liberals” with their cries of “disproportionate response”?

If he’d tried that in Texas, he might have gotten the needle

RedTex: If he’d tried that in Texas, he might have gotten the needle

The needle would be too nice if robert is correct in saying that he killed a 4 year old by stomping on her head.

likwidshoe: What are you talking about? Stay on topic.

Too much emotion. Once again. None of you are Israelis. Neiman dear friend. What evangelical Christians have in mind for Israel, is not what Israel has in mind for it’s future. The Israelis kept this terrorist alive all those years for their reasons and and their reasons only. Maybe a prisoner/dead soldier exchange is one of them.
Decrying what they did and calling them wimps (using different words to describe the same)does not help.

Ellinas,

Taking emotion out of it completely, it’s pure, cold hard logic that says that this trade wasn’t equal. Logic would dictate that he would be sent back in the same condition that Israel received their soldiers.

It was emotion that allowed this to happen. Not logic.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim said: Taking emotion out of it completely, it’s pure, cold hard logic that says
that this trade wasn’t equal. Logic would dictate that he would be sent
back in the same condition that Israel received their soldiers.

I agree the animal is allowed to live and the two Israeli soldiers come home dead, not fair one bit.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

ellinas,

Too much emotion. Once again. None of you are Israelis.

With all due respect, nationality has nothing to do with my condemnation of releasing Samir Kuntar that, “shot Danny at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, eyewitnesses said he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle.”

The only problem that I come to is there isn’t anything you can do to him that would equate to what he has done to that poor girl that couldn’t protect herself.

Not everything in life is fair. The Israelis have done this before. It is not the first time. Once again. Their dead are worth more to them than this terrorist does. The Israelis made their decision. I don’t see Israelis in the streets of Jerusalem protesting the exchange. If there are some out there I have to say they don’t speak for the majority.

ellinas,

If you’re speaking to me, then you’re arguing a moot point. I’m expressing my personal opinion and if Israel believes that their dead soldiers are worth, then that is fine, that’s their personal opinion. Not something that I would have done, unless he has a nano-bomb planted in his brain that will explode in a week.

The only problem that I come to is there isn’t anything you can do to him that would equate to what he has done to that poor girl that couldn’t protect herself.
Nunez on July 18, 2008 at 07:39 pm

With your above point I agree 100%.

I bring natrionality into this in order to drive a point.
The point being that they are to decide what is best for Israel. Not stateside cheerleaders. Are you familiar with what evangelican Christians have in mind for Israel?  Now go and ask any Israeli and see if they share the same belief.

. Not something that I would have done, unless he has a nano-bomb planted in his brain that will explode in a week.
Nunez on July 18, 2008 at 07:52 pm

That my friend would have very negative results.
Israelis, Hamas, and Hesbolah negotiated in good faith.
It would not be helpfull in future negotiations.

e hater: What gives you the authority to speak for Israel?  You are a well-known Jew hater on this blog.
Your arrogance and hypocrisy are on display again.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Poll: 63% of Israelis back release of Samir Kuntar for IDF soldiers
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988032.html

Now, I don’t know if Israel at the time of that poll understood that the Israeli’s soldier were deceased.

The needle would be too nice if robert is correct in saying that he killed a 4 year old by stomping on her head.

It’s in the article.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

ellinas: It was a joke, I understand that it would hamper further negotiations. I wouldn’t doubt the ‘Mossad’ is keeping track to where he is at and is planning a ‘mysterious’ car crash or the like for this man.

With all due respect, nationality has nothing to do with my condemnation of releasing Samir Kuntar that, “shot Danny at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, eyewitnesses said he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle.”

Just as a footnote, the eyewitness in this case was Danny’s wife, Einat’s mother, who Danny had hidden in a secret closet built into their bedroom wall.  With her was their other daughter.  To keep that youngster quiet and not reveal their hiding place, her mother held her hand over the little child’s mouth.  Only after the ordeal was finally over and Samir and his companions had left did the mother realize to her horror that she had inadvertently smothered her other daughter to death.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

robert108: I looked it up on Google, which would explain how I knew his name was Samir Kuntar as I have posted above his despicable actions in chronological order. Ohh, and we agree on something! Let’s rejoice! Don’t worry, tomorrow will be another day of slinging shit back and forth! haha

Bat One: Well this just gets worse and worse. The pain that this man has caused on this mother is inexplicable.

Are you familiar with what evangelican Christians have in mind for Israel?

They have nothing in mind for Israel, except they have been the biggest supporter of Israel since they restablished their homeland and without them the U.S. might have completely sold them out a long time ago.

Most evangelicals recognize Israel as the Apple of God’s Eye and that Israel own all of that land, every inch of it, it belongs to Israel. They do not dicate or even influence Israeli political or religious policies.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Nunez: What you don’t do is set him free to continue to do stuff like that.  It’s the consequence of negotiating from a position of weakness.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

...slinging shit back and forth!

You speak only for yourself, not for me.

If you already knew what he did, and that he did it, why did you try to bring me into it?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

...Hamas, and Hesbolah negotiated in good faith.
It would not be helpfull in future negotiations.

So, you are an apologist for those “Palestinian” animals?  The only future negotiations should be the ones for the unconditional surrender of the Hamas and Hez terrorists.  The only “talking” should be informing them of when the bombs start falling if they don’t surrender immediately.  You want the Israelis dead, Jew hater!

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Jews look at it this way - he’s using up valuable resources in prison and they can’t legally kill him there. A free man walking the streets of Gaza? He’s dead meat, without all that pesky paperwork. The bodies of the Jews that were returned + the opportunity to snuff this piece of shit = a win/win situation for the Jews.

Nunez - likwidshoe: What are you talking about? Stay on topic.

When Israel fights Hezbollah, the “world community” complains about a “disproportionate response”.

Something like this happens, and the “world community” is silent.

On topic.

Pil he does not look good. His eyes look crazy.
But once again. The Israelis value their live and dead more than him. This is not about him. This is about Israels dead soldiers.

Why are Israelis dying though? Because Hezbollah can kidnap and kill them, and trade their dead bodies for LIVE terrorists....who can kill more Israelis...like 4 year old girls.

These are the people killing Israelis.

Here’s a question ellinas. What do Hezbollah and most Israelis (not to mention many of us here) all agree on? That this is bad for Israel and good for Hezbollah.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

None of you are Israelis and so therefore you cannot opine on the vast, galactic, criminal stupidity of this latest move.

Is that kind of like the Leftist argument of: you aren’t serving in Irag / Afghanistan and so therefore you have no moral right to advocate that we deploy troops in those places?  e.g. if you do, you are Chickenhawks?

Funny.

By that measure, Leftists aren’t qualified to discuss a vast range of topics, being absolutely bereft of moral authority… period.

Suffice to say I agree with Pilg.

Good thing I wasn’t deployed to the ME.

I’d prolly be one of those bad Jarheads that cap bad guys even in ambiguous situations. Malicide in action.

He benefits himself when he suffers death, and benefits Christ when he deals out death. ‘He does not wear a sword without cause; he is God’s agent for punishment of evil-doers and for glorification of the good.’ Clearly, when he kills an evil-doer, he is not a homicide, but, if you will allow me the term, a malicide, and is plainly Christ’s vengeance on those who work evil and the defense Christ provides for Christians.

Just to be fer sure, fer sure.

...for great justice

I bring natrionality into this in order to drive a point.
The point being that they are to decide what is best for Israel. Not stateside cheerleaders. Are you familiar with what evangelican Christians have in mind for Israel?  Now go and ask any Israeli and see if they share the same belief.

The liberal argument is always about excluding people from the debate. Being wrong on everything, a leftist cannot honestly debate any issue, for even they know they are wrong.

This is why the argument over abortion is never whether or not it is a good or moral thing...or even necessary, but over the validity of the person to question it. Men can never be against abortion, because it is a choice they’ll never have to make. Women who have never had an abortion are not in a position to criticize because they never had to make that “hard choice”. Women who have had an abortion and regret it, like the pseudonymed Roe, are no longer in a position because they have given over to irrational guilt.

The debate is never over ID, but over the religious beliefs of the IDers, and how Christians are to be excluded from the debate.

And how, “non-Israelis” cannot possibly make a good decision for Israel.

And what’s funny is that the rules that exclude everyone else never affect the liberal. A man can come out for abortion and is a hero. A Christian who endorces Evolution is enlightened, and an American liberal who slams Israel is just being a good person.

A buncha bullshit really.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

robert108,

You speak only for yourself, not for me.

If you already knew what he did, and that he did it, why did you try to bring me into it?

I’ve noticed a consistent pattern in your comments that perpetuates a sense of close-mindedness. Bamboozling others with a countless number of posts reflecting a sense of elitism, a faulty predisposition of truth and knowledge, which inevitably compromises your ability to consider new possibilities.

Your own signature echos this, “Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position.” You are blinded by bipartisonaship which cripples this country, halting progress towards a place that this wonderful country deserves.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation” -Herbert Spencer

Kenny.Israel decided. You may debate all you want. I cannot stop you. I expessed my opinions on the issue.
You don’t like what I said. That is fine with me.
It is my opinion that without outside instigators/war financiers Israel and the Palestinians will get along just fine. They will find a solution to their problems. We know what the Moslems do and how they instigate and perpetrate the animosity between the two people.
Neiman will tell you “They have nothing in mind for Israel, except they have been the biggest supporter of Israel since they restablished their homeland and without them the U.S. might have completely sold them out a long time ago. What he does not say is that the evangelicals do not want peace in the Israel/Palestine area. They want Israel to prevail so the apocalypse can start. They want to
“push Gods hand” for the second coming. Some Moslems also have apocalyptic views. So both sides are financing and instigating war and violence.
I do not know your views on the issue, nor do I know if you are religious. However fanatical religious people share a lot of responsibility in the Middle East violence. You would think that Christians at the very least would be calling for peace. However they are financing violence. I know I will be attacked for what I wrote, but IMO it is something worthy of consideration.

It should read:Neiman will tell you evangelical Christians “They have nothing in mind for Israel, except they have been the....”
Pardon the error.

I’ve noticed a consistent pattern in your comments that perpetuates a sense of close-mindedness. Bamboozling others with a countless number of posts reflecting a sense of elitism, a faulty predisposition of truth and knowledge, which inevitably compromises your ability to consider new possibilities.

Wrong.  I would not recommend you go into the counseling or psychology fields.

You are blinded by bipartisonaship…

I think you might want to look up the definition of “bipartisanship”.

I would appreciate it if you found someone else to obsess about.  You’re kinda creepy.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Nunez: I notice you failed to answer my question.  Don’t bother.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108: Replace bipartisanship with partisanship. And your comment on not going into psychology is quite clever, referring to another post to try to undermine me with your assumption that I’m actually in that field. Nice try.

I am Israeli so first excuse my spelling and second, understand that today the part of me that writes this comment is mostly an emotional one.

First things first. The whole situation with the prisoner exchange is a lose lose situation. you also have to understand that Israel in my honest opinion is different than most other countries in that the entire country dies with every Israeli soldier that dies, There is a deep sadness that just lingers around in Israel mixed with amazing happiness, but every time we lose a soldier we all let that sadness engulf us for a day or two before we move on. and it’s always there lingering in the back.

I honestly don’t think that a stranger can understand how this country looks at their soldiers, there is a deep consensus that the soldiers are our sons forced to protect us rather than people that have to do their job. this difference is what makes this so hard. No one wants to see Kuntar set free but no one wants to see the bodies of our sons left in the hands of these animals. There is no right or wrong here, it’s just something that needs to be done.

I could argue that there was no reason to leave Kuntar alive in the first place and that they should have executed him before he was returned but anyone that knows the Hezbollah knows that the only reason they wanted Kuntar back and the corpses of those terrorists back is so they have another moral victory over Israel and something they can brag about on tv.

These people couldn’t care less about the life of Kuntar or what happens to the bodies of those terrorists, they have no morality and no values. They are animals that will stop at nothing to claim what they believe was taken from them. And that’s the big tragedy, Israel is fighting an enemy that can’t lose because by any modern standard they have already lost.

If you know the mentality of these people than you know that nothing Israel will say or do will stop them, they don’t follow the standards and values of modern society. These are people that stone their mothers and sisters to death for looking at another man and there are many more examples like these, that tell you who these people really are. And here’s the “best” part. Israel can’t win because of one simple fact… they have time on their side and we don’t. They truly believe that eventually they’ll win no matter what. They don’t value human life so dieing is not an issue. They sit there and tell their grandsons how one day they’ll go back to their rightful home and that all jews will be dead and the world would become a Muslim world. There’s no way we can win

Ellinas,

What a load of crap.

The Moslems have been relentlessly attacking Israel since the country’s rebirth. Every olive branch Israel puts out, they reject and respond with violence. The ongoing bloodshed is not at the foot of anyone but the savages who follow Mohammad. So stop blaming “outside instigators”, when it’s all Muslims.

And out of all the evangelicals I know, none of them believe that Jews beating Muslims starts the apocalypse. That’s a stupid leftist thing based off of one or two retarded pastors. Even Michael Medved shot that crap down years ago.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

Ziv,

While I sympathize with your situation, let me assure you, among Americans (non-Leftists that is) the loss of any American soldier hits just as hard.  Just because there are more Americans and thus more Americans in uniform, does not make American servicemen any more fungible than Israeli soldiers.

I won’t dispute your outlook as to the inevitability of the loss of Israel—you are far more familiar with the situation and local mentality than probably most of us here.  It must be difficult to be saddled with a Goetterdaemmerung outlook, but I suppose that is based upon a sober evaluation of the circumstances.

On a lighter note, we Americans, and specifically American Marines, have encountered the happiness-to-die mindset before and found an effective remedy: make them happy by killing them in great numbers.  I speak of our fight against Tojo’s Japan, who dispatched bloodthirsty and implacable soldiers, who—like our modern-day Islamic types—felt no compunction against slavery (spelled forced labor and comfort women) , rape, torture and wholesale slaughter of civilians and prisoners of war.

I, like yourself, am troubled by certain factors which I can see that will make victory difficult.

At present, we have a very sizable and influential faction of government and populace who do not recognize that we are at war, much less understands the need for methods needed to be used to prosecute and win that war.  In effect, they are making it very, very difficult to achieve victory, as if somehow they were actually siding with the enemies of the USA and the enemies of her allies.

Please understand that not all Americans feel that way and the country is very much divided in a range of important issues, not the least of which is our mutual effort against radical Islam.

...for great justice

Ellinas,

Another Israeli perspective:
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/07/18/remembering-entebbe-israel-then-and-now/#more-9152

Hey, I don’t blame you for not wanting to get into it. You’re wrong and we both bloody well know it. The fact that you talk in this absurdly stupid “you’re not Israeli” liberal reductionism proves that you don’t have a case. Stop dancing around the issue, girl. If your basic opinion is that non-Israelis shouldn’t have a say so...why should I give a damn what you think? By your OWN admission, you’re irrelevant.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

Kenny. Here is your “That’s a stupid leftist thing based off of one or two retarded pastors. Even Michael Medved shot that crap down years ago.”

Today in the United States, belief in apocalyptic prophecy is integral to the worldviews of many evangelical Christians, such as the Southern Baptist Convention (with an estimated 15 million members) and various pentecostal and charismatic denominations (roughly 8 million members), including the Assemblies of God Church, the Church of Nazarene, and thousands of independent evangelical “Bible churches”

There’s no way we can win
Ziv on July 18, 2008 at 11:59 pm

Yes there is. There are avenues that have not been explored.
If the Greeks and the Turks of Cyprus can talk of reunification, I am sure that Israelis and Palestinians can find a middle ground for peacefull coexistance. This “eye for an eye” has to stop. Outside meddling has to stop. Then Israelis and Palestinians can sit next to each other and discuss peace in earnest.

Ellinas, friend:

Neiman will tell you “They have nothing in mind for Israel, except they have been the biggest supporter of Israel since they reestablished their homeland and without them the U.S. might have completely sold them out a long time ago. What he does not say is that the evangelicals do not want peace in the Israel/Palestine area. They want Israel to prevail so the apocalypse can start. They want to “push Gods hand” for the second coming.

My dear friend: I don’t know where you get your information on evangelical Christians, but it is either from comic books or based solely on some nutcase I’ve never heard of, that wants to usher in the apocalypse. Evangelicals are looking for the coming of the Lord long before that time to take His Church home with Him. The vast majority of evangelicals support Israel because according to Scripture they are God’s Chosen people, even Mohammed agrees when he talks about the people of the Book. God gave the Jews the land we now call Israel, with established borders and He condemns anyone that dares to divide that land with any other people. Evangelicals do not support the Palestinian cause because there is no such thing as a distinct Palestinian people and they have no historical rights whatsoever to one square inch of that land. Evangelicals do not want war in the Middle East, but God said there will never be peace there until Christ returns to establish His millennial kingdom on earth and at that time all of Israel will be restored and every nation shall pay honor to that land and those people.

Lastly, evangelicals do not want to do anything to bring about the End Times, they know the times are wholly in God’s hands and there is nothing in Scripture that tells us to do anything to prepare for that day, except be in spiritual unity with the Lord. You are confusing Evangelicals and Christians generally with Islam that is commanded to force conversions on the world, destroy Israel and kill the Jews to prepare for the coming Islamic messiah the Madhi, there is absolutely nothing like that in the Scriptures for the Church nor is it the desire of any Christian to force anyone to accept Christ or to do anything to prepare for Christ’s return.

In this you are totally, absolutely wrong, you are misguided and you need new sources of information on evangelicals.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Ellinas:

Outside meddling has to stop. Then Israelis and Palestinians can sit next to each other and discuss peace in earnest.

I am struggling with the incredibly ignorant things you have said under this thread. The Palestinian leadership does not want peace under any terms whatsoever except the total annihilation of Israel and the death of every Jew on earth. Barak gave Arafat about 98% of all their demands and Arafat rejected it because they want it all and they will never agree to any thing but temporary false peace accords until they win it all. They will murder, lie about peace, deceive and murder some more until Israel no longer exists and no Jews arte left on earth.

Qur’an 2:61 “Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah’s wrath.”
Qur’an 4:44 “Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They traffic in error and desire that you should go astray. But Allah has full knowledge of your enemies. Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, saying, ‘We hear and we disobey’ with a twist of their tongues they slander Faith…. Allah has cursed them for disbelief.”
Qur’an 4:47 “O you People of the Book to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed.”
Qur’an 4:160 “For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men’s wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom.”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
Qur’an 97:5 “There is peace until the dawning of the day!”

The Jews and Arabs have lived in relative peace and prosperity side-by-side in Israel; but the so-called Palestinians, incited by Islamic extremists are engaged in an unending holy war against Israel until Israel is destroyed, the Jews are dead and Islam holds the sword over the Middle East.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Ellinas, I don’t know where you’re getting this.

I can’t find anything about the Southern Baptist Convention believing that they need to bring about the end times with Israel. I think some of it’s most prominent members Newt Gingrich, Duncan Hunter, Mike Huckabee and Billy Graham would all be surprised that they believe in this. As would former members Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Al Gore. None of these men have publically claimed anything of the sort of belief that you are accusing them of. Nor do a vast majority of those 25 million hold these beliefs. Indeed, the only contriversy that comes up with a search string of “Southern Baptist Convention + jew” or “Southern Baptist Convention + Israel” is that the SBC is using the converted Jews for Jesus to try and convert more Jews. How nefarious.

The Assemblies of God believe that when Christ returns he will bring the salvation of Israel. To put this plainly, Christ comes and restores Israel because it is his will, and doesn’t return because “we have started the Apocalypse”. So the AG doesn’t believe in this nightmarish vision either. Hmmmm, strike 2.

And I find nothing of the sort in viewing the Church of the Nazarene either. Strike 3.

Simply saying that someone believes in something is irrelevant without proof.

Even though the New York times repeats this silly slander about Christians trying to bring about the end times, it is forced to admit that most evangelicals don’t believe this (if any actually do) and provide no evidence of any leader making such pronounciations:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14israel.html?ei=5090&en=60ed9b6dede3816e&ex=1321160400&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1216489353-ydwHekHdb387JRPKtJhyoA

This misunderstanding comes from utopian cults in England in the later 1800s and early 1900s who espoused clearly heretical views such as “Britain is the new Israel” and that they, not God, controlled when the end times would start. These views were short lived and didn’t make it far outside of England.

Like most liberal lies about Christians, this takes a historic event, takes it out of context and twists it to paint millions of modern day Christians with it as crazies. It’s a shameful lie.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

The Jews and Arabs have lived in relative peace and prosperity side-by-side in Israel; but the so-called Palestinians, incited by Islamic extremists are engaged in an unending holy war against Israel until Israel is destroyed, the Jews are dead and Islam holds the sword over the Middle East.

It’s always curious how the “realists” ignore the simple history behind the Israel/Palestine conflict to espouse the same “solution” that hasn’t worked for the past several decades, eh Neiman?

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

"The vast majority of evangelicals support Israel because according to Scripture they are God’s Chosen people, even Mohammed agrees when he talks about the people of the Book. God gave the Jews the land we now call Israel, with established borders and He condemns anyone that dares to divide that land with any other people. Evangelicals do not support the Palestinian cause because there is no such thing as a distinct Palestinian people and they have no historical rights whatsoever to one square inch of that land. Evangelicals do not want war in the Middle East, but God said there will never be peace there until Christ returns to establish His millennial kingdom on earth and at that time all of Israel will be restored and every nation shall pay honor to that land and those people.”

Neiman. There you have it. You are saying the same thing I said, but are using different words to desribe it.
The Bible says only 144,000 thousand Jews will be saved. Correct me if I am wrong but for one to be saved one has to accept Jesus. No acceptance no salvation. The Jews were favored in the Old Testament. God, in His New Testament proclaimed:"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28) To the Colossians Paul explained, “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” (Col. 3:11)
How many times the beginning of the end has been poclaimed by evangelical millennials?

Kenney: Great job in both posts, especially the longer one. Being associated with the Assemblies of God most of my adult life and having close fellowship with most Baptists, I too wonder whom Ellinas is associating with to get his misinformation. Perhaps he gets the New York Times?

Anyway, thanks, great job!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

“The vast majority of evangelicals support Israel because according to Scripture they are God’s Chosen people, even Mohammed agrees when he talks about the people of the Book

That is a problem why?

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

“The vast majority of evangelicals support Israel because according to Scripture they are God’s Chosen people, even Mohammed agrees when he talks about the people of the Book

That is a problem? Why?

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Ellinas, pardon me friend but you are bouncing off the wall with some misunderstandings about Christianity.

I am not going to give Bible lessons here, these subjects are not easy to confine to such a format. The 144,000 Jews, or witnesses are saved during the 7-year Tribulation period, that does not in any way limit the number of Jews restored at the end of the age. The 144,000 during the Tribulation will recognize Jesus as their long awaited Messiah, yes; but other will accept Jesus because of their witness and there have been Jews throughout human history, like the Patriarchs that were accepted by God for their faithfulness and they have already seen Jesus and recognized Him as their Messiah and are now and have been waiting the restoration of all things. So, the number of saved Jews cannot possibly be limited to 144,000.

I won’t debate the silliness of no Jews and no Greeks, that only refers to those that throughout the past 2,000 years accepted Jesus, they are all brothers and sisters in the Lord, members of the Body of Christ, the Church; but God promised to restore Israel to His Chosen people the Jews and establish their homeland there forever. His Covenant to Abraham was an everlasting Covenant and He promised that Abraham’s children (Jews) would inherit the Promised Land forever.

Yes, may people have tried to predict the End Times on many occasions and they have been wrong, it is human nature I am afraid. On the other hand, that Christians might be spiritually prepared to meet the Lord and not become lax and wander from Him, He has told us that Jesus will return suddenly at the end of the time of the Gentiles and therefore not knowing the day or hour, we should live as though that event is tonight. On the other hand, while we cannot know the day and hour of His return, Jesus said His true children could tell by events happening in the world when that general season or time was at hand. Most evangelicals believe the Rapture of the sainsts will precede the 7-Year Tribulation and thus by at least seven years before His physical return for the final battle over the earth. Which alone destroys your theory they want to being about the End Times.

No true Christian wants to interfere with God’s plans, as if they could; they are here to grow in Christ and bring the Gospel to as many souls as possible, in love, and await His return.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman and Kenny. I am pleased that neither of you belong to or believe those cults.
But allow me to attempt to explain this in simple terms.
I have said that Evangelicals Christians do not want peace between Israel and Palestine. I have also said that Evangelicals support the war in the Middle East the same way ($$$$) radical and or non radical Moslems do.
True or false: If there is lasting peace between those two, what happens to the apocalyptic beliefs?

Neiman you further say: “I won’t debate the silliness of no Jews and no Greeks......”

Well neither will I. The Bible says that and no one can alter that fact.
Furthermore quote me a passage in the New Testament where it says that more than 144,000 jews will be saved.

Ellinas,

Yes, you have said this, but you offer NO PROOF. Supporting Israel financially doesn’t mean we want no peace. We don’t support a two state solution for a variety of reasons:

1. There has never been a Palestinian people. When Palestine has been used to describe a group of people pre-Israel’s restoration...it has always been to refer to Palestinian Jews. Those who claim to be Palestinian today were mostly Jordanians. Nonetheless, those who want a historical right of return ignore that their forefathers abandoned the land willingly so that Egypt could destroy Israel.
2. The Palestinians are violent savages who have been unwilling to compromise. They blow up jewish bakeries, deliberately targeting civilians. Then they flee into schools or hospitals so that when Israel responds, innocents are killed on that end too. This bares repeating...every dead innocent in this conflict is the result of Islamic radicalists, and that includes dead Muslims. Is Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, the PLO, and other Islamic savages would stop attacking the peace loving Jews, there would be no need for Israel to defend itself. Everyone would win.
3. Originally a two state solution was imposed by the UN, which was immediately rejected by the muslim hordes. Every peaceful offering that Israel has made has been responded to with more violence. However, when Israel responds militarily and crushes the bad guys this weird peace thing follows. The only two countries that Israel has never made concessions to are the two that today offer Israel the least amount of grief: Jordan and Egypt. Those that they have given concessions to are (in a manner befitting their gifts) their biggest aggressors: Palestine, Hezbollah, and, under Saddam, Iraq. Therefore, military strength promotes peace in the Middle East, and not weak diplomacy.
4. While Israel took in every displaced Jew in the world, the much larger Muslim countries deliberately refused to take in Muslims who voluntarily left Israel to hasten it’s destruction.
5. Israel is now, and has always been (with brief exceptions) that land of the Jew. Even on a secular level, with no religious arguments, the Jews’ claim to Israel is undeniable. Even under Muslim control in the Middle Ages, Jerusalem and Israel were populated by Jewish settlements.
6. Israel is now, and has been since it’s rebirth, the most free and prosperous nation in the Middle East, and is only (maybe) eclipsed by the United States as the most free and wonderful country in the world. Israel offers Muslims and Arabs more rights than they are afforded in any other Middle Eastern country. Israel has contributed innovations in science, computers, medicine, and every other field available. They took a piece of worthless desert and turned it into a beautiful shining city on a hill that should make even Americans jealous. In contrast, look at the filth that encompasses the rest of the Middle East. Why should we wish to erode the one sucess story we have in the region and replace it with the backwardness of Palestinian “culture” which celebrates monsters blowing up innocent women and children? Anything that weakens Israel is bad not just for Israel, but for the world at large.

It is for these reasons that we don’t support Palestine. This is not refusing to support peace. We are siding with undeniable good against undeniable evil. This is the only right and moral position to take, and those who demand that we refuse to make distinctions between the two cultures are not only promoting the evil of moral equivalency, they are the ones not helping the cause of peace.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

Believing that there will be an apocalypse is a pretty much universal belief amongst Christians. We do have a book that kinda goes into detail about it.

This isn’t the same as believing that we can make it happen, or that by promoting Israel we are speeding along the end of times. While a glorious rebirth of the world at the end of Revelations will indeed be a beautiful thing, there is much tragedy that will come before it. And most Christians are horrified at that period as we release the amount of suffering that will fall upon our fellow man. No Christians actually look forward to the end times as there will be enough suffering to go around. On a simple level, many of us aren’t good enough to benefit from the rapture and we don’t want to go through it or have our loved ones go through it.

You don’t seem to understand basic Christian teaching or Christian beliefs E. Neiman explained that the number of Jews 144,000 to be saved is PHYSICAL, on this earth, during the end times. It doesn’t speak to the number that will be reborn, as nowhere in the bible does it tell us that. Nor does it speak to a Muslim/Jewish conflict being necessary for the end times to occur.

You’re projecting the typical liberal arrogance of “humans control and cause everything” onto Christians who don’t believe they call the shots. And you’re conflating completely different beliefs as the same thing. This is a subject you’re completely clueless on and I advise that you try to learn from actual Christians on...instead of “AllChristiansSuckandareEvil.com”.

Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

Ellinas: What am I going to do with you?

You never said cults at first, you claimed these were the beliefs of all evangelicals, that it was a general doctrine or desire. That is not true!

If there is lasting peace between those two, what happens to the apocalyptic beliefs?

To suggest that a lasting peace would undermine the faith and then to suggest Evangelicals are actively engaged in preventing peace or even wishing that there be no peace has not been established by any facts you have presented and it is divorced from reality. No such wish for war or acts to prevent a lasting peace exists among evangelicals regarding Israel, at all. No lasting peace can happen to be sure, not because Isarel has not wanted peace, but because Islam is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the annihilation of all Jews.

Romans 11:26 “And so all Israel shall be saved, there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer: and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob;”

“The people of the Jews, the generality of them, the body of that nation, called “the fulness” of them, (Romans 11:12), and relates to the latter day, when a nation of them shall be born again at once; when, their number being as the sand of the sea, they shall come up out of the lands where they are dispersed, and appoint them one head, Christ, and great shall be the day of Jezreel; when they as a body, even the far greater part of them that shall be in being, shall