Say Anything Blog

The left can’t get their agenda passed without lying.

Class envy runs through a leftys’ veins like poop through a goose.

A large part of the health system utilizes gov’t insurance.

Socialized medicine is already here.
State Children’s Health Insurance Program, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Administration.
If our health care is as Stossel says"the best”, then give some credit where it is do.

Elvis has left the building and he’s not returning.

My sister, brain damaged at birth, is eligible for and uses Medicaid.  They force you to deal with physicians who are, shall we say, “not brain surgeons”.  She has to have a number of prescriptions because of seizures and other problems, and getting the prescriptions renewed is a pain in the arse.  Having said all that, I thank all the little gods that she’s got that insurance.  Call it what you like; without it, I’m sure my parents would have been bankrupted.

Socialized medicine is already here.
State Children’s Health Insurance Program, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Administration.

The difference is we have the private system propping up the government system. 

What we need is more market reforms in medicine rather than wreck the best health care in the world.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

Roxanne, I’m glad your sister’s getting help but I’d rather not deal with the government for my health care.  I think that comparison with the private sector is probably helping her out.

Best of luck.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

WOOF:

A large part of the health system utilizes gov’t insurance.

Not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars in tax credits that are an invisible subsidy for the entire health industry.

But frankly, I don’t think the government support has much to do with the quality of the coverage.  If anything, it has driven up the price of insurance to the point where most people can’t afford it, and is also responsible for the high inflation rate of medical care.

Given the credit where the credit is due, is to acknowledge that it is the privatized portion (about 50%) that gives us the quality health care that we receive.

Carrick, I think it’s wrong to say that the government allowing us to keep some of our money is a subsidy by the government.

And most people have insurance through their employer and in effect they are earning it (or paying for it.).

Aside from those semantics I agree with you.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

TW:

Carrick, I think it’s wrong to say that the government allowing us to keep some of our money is a subsidy by the government.

Except that’s not really how it works.

If you buy insurance through your business you get a 20-30% discount over what it would have cost you.  In effect, the insurance company is receiving 125-133% of what you are paying them.

How is that anything other than a back-handed subsidy?

And it’s completely regressive, benefiting people with the highest income levels (who perhaps need the help the least) the most.

And most people have insurance through their employer and in effect they are earning it (or paying for it.).

Since you can only qualify for the discount if you go through your employer’s selection for insurance, you are significantly penalized for “shopping around”.

How much more non-free-market could a gimmick like this get?

I think when the tax code is used to manipulate behavior among citizens it can truthfully be called a subsidy.  Not for the taxpayers, of course, but rather for whatever interest the politicians are trying to benefit with the manipulation.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

WEll the employer shops around so it’s not as bad as that.

Also self employed get the tax break.

If you buy insurance through your business you get a 20-30% discount over what it would have cost you.  In effect, the insurance company is receiving 125-133% of what you are paying them.

No what the employer pays is a business expense but not a taxable benefit to the employee.  It amounts to a person keeping more of their own money.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

I agree though the systems screwed up but that’s the governments fault.  Open it up to market reforms.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

More market reforms are definitely needed, but few, especially/indluding some who call for them the most, are willing to go as far as we should go.

Why is medical care expensive? Because gov’t, via the FDA and the medical practice acts, restricts competition. Eliminate them, and you will see the price of health care drop like a rock. If I were an accountant, i/o an MD, I would resent the fact that money was taken from me by threat of force to pay some gov’t flunky to decide who could be a doctor and who could make and sell Rx’s in this country. If I want to go to the village idiot to have my appendix out, I should be allowed to do so.

Until we deal with the root cause of expensive health care, gov’t restrictions, we will just be plinking around with patchwork crazy quilt ‘fixes’ that don’t fix anything, while my patients can’t afford their Rx’s or their specialized care, unless Big Daddy gov’t graciously condescends to pay for it, or they work for some big corp; even then their benefits are slowly eroding. And if I read one more medical editorial praising the Canadian system, I think my head will explode.

TW:

WEll the employer shops around so it’s not as bad as that.

Shops around for the best deal for them, not necessarily their employees.  That’s the wrong optimization process.

Also self employed get the tax break.

But not people who work for employers who don’t offer the benefit.  Mostly this affects blue-collar workers.

No what the employer pays is a business expense but not a taxable benefit to the employee.  It amounts to a person keeping more of their own money.

Think about this strictly from an accounting perspective:

A percentage of the payment to an insurance company is returned to both employer and employee from federal income (true even if you didn’t actually owe any taxes that year due to other write-offs), but the insurance company still gets its full payment. 

Where do you suppose that extra money comes from to account for the difference between what you paid and what the insurance company receives?  It doesn’t come from your pocket, because your payment was discounted via a tax credit.

Er I mean “tax break” as in write off ,not tax credit.

I think your reading too much into my mild disagreement.  It seems that we both agree that the government has messed up the market with their tax structure.

It’s just that you called it a subsidy and I disagree calling keeping your own money a subsidy.  Not a big deal.

But not people who work for employers who don’t offer the benefit.  Mostly this affects blue-collar workers.

It effects everyone who is an employee which is mostly white collar workers.  There’s no need for class to enter into this.  I pointed out the self employed provisions showing that it’d be an easy fix to give that provision of the taxes to the rest of the population.

Shops around for the best deal for them, not necessarily their employees.  That’s the wrong optimization process.

I agree that it’s not optimal, but employers (at least ones I know of) use their health care to recruit and retain workers so it’s not a total disaster.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

Socialized medical care has been a hot topic lately with John Edwards platform on requiring regular medical checkups since his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. Maybe not for mental health, but for more of the prevalent diseases, such as free mammograms for women with a high risk of getting breast cancer.

Sara: Doesn’t the totalitarianism bother you?  Whatever happened to free choice?

"If the good men are silent only the wicked are heard.” - Edmund Burke

what and where is that fictional socialized medical system you are all so anxious to avoid and why are so many of you deluded into thinking that the US Health system is No1 (No 1 for what exactly ?) when the stats provided by your own government shows that your system is in fact the most vastly inefficient of the developed world costing over 6000 usd per capita (DOUBLE the average European country level), that most of those of you who are insured will pay a lot more than a European does and will get a lot less for it - except for the UK , none of these other systems are socialized, since all the government does is collecting your fixed contribution along with your taxes and negotiate with the private funds managers and the pharmaceutical industry their rate of profit but it leaves doctors to decide how much they charge and you to decide to whom you go for treatment. While in the US it is your income that determines whether you live or die of a curable disease, in europe,where medical training is as good and FREE, it is the competence of your chosen doctor and your diet/lifestyle which plays the bigger part .. so why are you so keen to get robbed of your hard earned cash for the benefit of insurance companies who have an incentive in letting you die rather than refund your medical costs whenever they find a way to do so? ♠

what and where is that fictional socialized medical system you are all so anxious to avoid...

Government controlled health care is not “fictional”.

...why are so many of you deluded into thinking that the US Health system is No1 (No 1 for what exactly ?)

RTFA.

...when the stats provided by your own government shows that your system is in fact the most vastly inefficient of the developed world costing over 6000 usd per capita (DOUBLE the average European country level)...

You’re comparing one system that gives the world the most medical research (America of course) to one that doesn’t. Think about that as you go on about the supposed inefficiency.

...that most of those of you who are insured will pay a lot more than a European does and will get a lot less for it...

It’s set up that way. The socialists can’t compete so they must blackmail.

While in the US it is your income that determines whether you live or die of a curable disease...

Stop lying varuma.

...in europe,where medical training is as good and FREE...

There is no such thing as “FREE” medical training. Don’t be silly.

...so why are you so keen to get robbed of your hard earned cash for the benefit of insurance companies...

“Robbed”? That’s a weird way of characterizing freedom.

...who have an incentive in letting you die rather than refund your medical costs whenever they find a way to do so? ♠

Wouldn’t the government run health care system have the same incentive? Think about it.

What’s Varuma been smoking?  The Government hasn’t yet taken over anything and made it run more efficiently and cheaper.

What government medical systems do is ration and deny service.  Sometimes that might make monetary sense, like denying treatment to someone with only a 1% chance of living.  That can save hundreds of thousands on a patient that’s going to die anyway.

But for me I find that unacceptable.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

So despite the fact that US patients receive the best care this ranking organization ranked us last.  Excuse me, I’m worried about whether or not I’m getting the best treatment not whether someone who could afford health insurance but doesn’t choose to gets it.

Exactly, very well put, lol.