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Thursday, December 14, 2006

The Search For Jamil Hussein

Eason Jordon, the man who admitted he kept Saddam’s evil doings secret and was forced to resign in disgrace after he admitted it, the man who told the world that our military deliberately targeted journalists for assassination has offered to pay for Michelle Malkin and myself to go to Iraq and search for Jamil Hussein:

Who is Jamil Hussein? Michelle Malkin is leading the charge for an answer, and she put that question to me in her blog. The AP is in the midst of a public firestorm regarding whether supposed Iraqi police captain Jamil Hussein actually exists and, if so, whether he was a legitimate news source for a disputed November 24 AP-reported story saying Shia thugs in Baghdad “grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near Iraqi soldiers who did not intervene.” The U.S. military, the Iraqi government, and many others insisted the AP story was false and that Jamil Hussein either was fictitious or was not an Iraqi police officer, as asserted in the AP’s report. The AP has issued two strong statements defending its initial report and produced fresh statements from witnesses of the alleged crime, but the AP has not produced Jamil Hussein himself.

So the search for Jamil Hussein is on, and rightly so. IraqSlogger’s team in Baghdad is working to track him down. If we find him, we’ll get back to you with details. If we can’t find him, we’ll report that, too. If Michelle Malkin wants to join the search in Baghdad, IraqSlogger will pay for her trip, and I’d even be willing to accompany her. Stay tuned.

I know, my name isn’t in there, that’s because he offered Michelle to come with him and she asked if he would pay for me to go also.

I e-mailed my acceptance of Jordan’s invitation this morning. No way should we just take the word of they guy who admitted covering up for Saddam Hussein and who resigned from CNN after baselessly slandering the U.S. military (maybe we’ll find the Davos tape while we’re on the search). Plus, it’ll be an incredible opportunity to see Iraq and our troops firsthand. I have many friends, heroes, and contacts there I’d like to meet in person.

I also e-mailed to ask Mr. Jordan whether he would pay for Curt from Flopping Aces, the blogger who first broke open the story and is leading the charge for an answer (see, Jordan got his facts wrong already), to come on the search as well if he is able to do so.

1036am Eastern update: Jordan says he will pay for Curt’s trip.

I have to say, I am honored that she thought of me to go along and find the fraud we know as Jamil Hussein.  But alas with a day job as a police officer I first have to get approval from my department for the time off, which won’t be easy.....so stay tuned.

UPDATE

If indeed I am able to go to Iraq I will be in good company:

My friend, photojournalist/milblogger extraordinaire Michael Yon, is scheduled to be in Baghdad on the 19th. He may get answers before we even get off the ground.

Bill Ardolino is also getting ready to embed in Iraq before the end of the month. Bill Roggio is there now.

Still kinda blown away by all this but will update with the results of my time off request soon.

UPDATE II

I worry, as others have, that this may be a set-up of some kind.  Think about it.  Eason Jordon should have a easy time of finding Jamil Hussein since the AP has said they have been talked to him for over two years.  I have blogged many times that there may indeed be a man named Jamil Hussein but my argument has always been he is a fraud.  It has already been confirmed that he is NOT employed by the Iraqi government so why would we go skipping around Iraq in search of someone the AP could supposedly produce in a heartbeat?

Picture this, we are tooling around Baghdad and then Eason say’s “AH-HA!” There he is.  Jamil produces a fake police ID badge and then asks us to comment.  When we say that we would like him to come with us to the Ministry of Interior and have the MoI verify he is indeed a employee Mr. Jordan would spin it as “big time journalist (Michelle obviously, not me) refusing to accept proof that Jamil is real.” His story would be “Jamil found” and thats how it will be filed across the land.

Eason Jordan has already proven to us all that he is void of any ethics when it comes to journalism so why should we trust him now?

Crossposted at Flopping Aces

Comments

Avatar for Robert Perry

Exactly how is Eason Jordan going to find this guy that the AP cannot or will not produce?  Even with, or especially with, Michelle Malkin with him?  Exactly how is anyone going to verify or refute this?

Robert Perry on December 14, 2006 at 10:06 am

If I was Jamil Hussein, I’d come out of hiding to meet Michelle Malkin.

Of course if I was Elvis or Jimmy Hoffa I’d come out of hiding to meet Michelle Malkin.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on December 14, 2006 at 10:14 am

Talk about putting your money where your mouth is...I hope Curt can go on what should prove a very interesting trip.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 14, 2006 at 10:55 am

Exactly how is Eason Jordan going to find this guy that the AP cannot or will not produce?  Even with, or especially with, Michelle Malkin with him?  Exactly how is anyone going to verify or refute this?

Probably the same way he lied to us about Saddam’s atrocities for ten years.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 14, 2006 at 10:58 am
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I’m no fan of Eason Jordan, but at this point any effort to help locate the guy (or disprove his existence) is fine by me.

I’m proud of Curt and Michelle.  I think they’ll do the blogosphere proud over there.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 14, 2006 at 11:09 am

Rob: It has already been established, as far as possible, that this guy doesn’t exist, at least in the way AP claimed he did.  He is not a police captain, and he didn’t file any reports in any official capacity.  What are the odds of finding a guy in Iraq named Jamil Hussein?  I would say about 100%, but that doesn’t verify any of their stories.  This is a coverup, IMO.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 14, 2006 at 11:13 am
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Could be, Robert, but both Michelle and Curt are pretty sharp.  I doubt anybody is going to be able to pull the wool over their eyes.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 14, 2006 at 11:37 am
Avatar for RYP

Hey Curt,

I am the guy setting up Michelle’s trip. Its not a “joke”, setup or anything else. As you know Eason was roasted by the right wing for something they never actually heard or saw a transcript of. So he is sensitive to telling and finding the truth. But more importantly he has turned the other cheek and I assume you know all that comes with that.

I suggested that we send Michelle to Baghdad to find out if this fellow Hussain is fictional or real. We have about 40 people on the ground there right now and Eason bears no grudge against all silly stuff written about him. We are focused on the truth, I don’t see how that has a political label attached to it.

Thankfully for Michelle we are old hands in Iraq and will be able to fully brief her on the conditions there. One of our friends at Time just saw a very well loved PAO killed after an IED and bringing Americans the truth from Iraq is not something for the faint of heart. You are a cop and you know the drill. Its one thing to talk about something, its quite another to get out of the car and go down dark alleys. That’s where our people do our newsgathering every day. So if Michelle can find the answer to her questino and we can show that we are interested in truth regardless of political opinion. Then the soldiers, politicians and men who are fighting this war are better informed and smarter decision makers.

In any case, there is no need to inject rancor or suspicion into what is a genuine offer to get at the truth.

Stay safe and all the best

RYP

RYP on December 14, 2006 at 12:29 pm

RYP:  Why don’t you just prove that there is a Jamil Hussein that’s a police captain? 

That seems a lot cheaper way to do it.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 14, 2006 at 12:45 pm
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As you know Eason was roasted by the right wing for something they never actually heard or saw a transcript of.

Of course, the video/transcript were available, the “right wing” just wasn’t allowed to see it.

So he is sensitive to telling and finding the truth.

He didn’t tell the truth about the atrocities in Iraq under Saddam.  That’s undeniable.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 14, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Avatar for Robert Perry

RYP’s comments actually crystallize my thoughts; if Jordan’s organization cannot get it through their heads that the outcry over Davos and CNN’s non-reporting is legitimate, where else is their thinking more or less impaired?

My answer is simple; it is impaired in thinking that two or three “big names” can go into Baghdad and find out what the AP can not or will not discover--and not become targets in the process.  Sorry, RYP, but don’t your boss, Michelle, and Curt all deserve a little bit of thinking about why they should be able to find this out where the AP has failed--especially in light of the fact that the Iraqi police have categorically stated that they know of no such person?

Robert Perry on December 14, 2006 at 01:08 pm
Avatar for RYP

Its really up to the AP to deal with a stringer they can’t produce. Who is my boss? smile)

You never know what you will find, but its important to look.

As for Davos...hey I didnt get to sit next to Sharon Stone. or even go...so I really don’t care. I live in reality that’s why I think its great that Michelle wants to go.

By the way another site was assuming that this was a military embed...sorry. We don’t put soldiers at risk for journos. But I think if all the right wing blogs (RWB’S) are demanding answers, I think its great that Michelle is going to put everyone to shame and find out!

RYP on December 14, 2006 at 01:16 pm
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This is RYP’s website.

Quite the interesting character.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on December 14, 2006 at 01:17 pm
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Its really up to the AP to deal with a stringer they can’t produce.

Indeed it is.  Which is why it’s so baffling that the AP isn’t producing him.  If they sat him down with someone from Centcom for a 10 minute conversation this whole controversy would blow over.

Which is why I think there’s something to all this.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on December 14, 2006 at 01:19 pm
Avatar for Curt

Thanks for the comment RYP but this whole thing sounds like a farce to me.  The AP has used this guy for years supposedly, all you have to do is give them a call and ask them to produce the guy.  We all know why they haven’t done this yet, its because he is not a legitimate police officer.

That’s where our people do our newsgathering every day.

But you see, I dispute this and have been proving so on my blog which I crosspost here thanks to Rob.  They don’t go out into the dark alleys, they call supposed witnesses from the safe zone and then submit a report.  If they had actually gone into the dark alleys they would have found that this Burning Six event never happened.

Curt on December 14, 2006 at 01:33 pm

...Eason bears no grudge against all silly stuff written about him.

So, he admits lying to us for about ten years, while covering up Saddam’s atrocities, and that’s “silly stuff”?  He bears no grudge???
I bear a grudge for that amoral liar, and he has zero credibility with me, which is exactly what he has earned.  If we held the MSM accountable for their crimes, this guy would be in prison for fraud, at least.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 14, 2006 at 03:26 pm
Avatar for Dexter Westbrook

While we’re at it, let’s get some proof that “Curt at Flopping Aces” actually exists.

What is his real name? Where does he work? He claims to be in law enforcement in LA, but he’s never presented any proof of this. Which “law enforcement agency” does he work for? This information is needed to verify his identity.

He claims to be a former Marine. Which unit did he serve in? When? Why doesn’t he produce his service record? How do we know he isn’t a Section 8?

It’s beyond hilarious that “Curt at Flopping Aces,” who doesn’t have the stones to provide any proof that he exists, is complaining about a news agency’s anonymous sources.

How about it, “Curt at Flopping Aces,” whoever you are? Put up or shut up.

Dexter Westbrook on December 14, 2006 at 07:34 pm

This is more leftie BS.  Curt at Flopping Aces isn’t the source for any major news stories favorable to the Dem propaganda about the Iraq war.  If we subtract all the lies and fabrications that have supposedly come from “Jamil Hussein”, the picture in Iraq changes radically from “dismal” to “the usual war stuff”.
AP has been caught lying and making things up: this is yet another case of Ratherism.  Eat your crow and move on, hopefully to be truthful from now on.  Be thankful you’re not being prosecuted for fraud, AP.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 14, 2006 at 07:43 pm
Avatar for Bat One

They don’t go out into the dark alleys, they call supposed witnesses from the safe zone and then submit a report.

Curt,

Are you talking about the Associated Press, et al., or just the Iraq Study Group?

Bat One on December 14, 2006 at 07:52 pm
Avatar for Bat One

While we’re at it, let’s get some proof that “Curt at Flopping Aces” actually exists.

Dexter,

Does your mommy know that you’re up on the computer this late?  Why don’t you come back again after your voice changes.

Bat One on December 14, 2006 at 07:55 pm
Avatar for Curt

While we’re at it, let’s get some proof that “Curt at Flopping Aces” actually exists.

What is his real name? Where does he work? He claims to be in law enforcement in LA, but he’s never presented any proof of this. Which “law enforcement agency” does he work for? This information is needed to verify his identity.

He claims to be a former Marine. Which unit did he serve in? When? Why doesn’t he produce his service record? How do we know he isn’t a Section 8?

It’s beyond hilarious that “Curt at Flopping Aces,” who doesn’t have the stones to provide any proof that he exists, is complaining about a news agency’s anonymous sources.

How about it, “Curt at Flopping Aces,” whoever you are? Put up or shut up.

Typical lefty tactic.  Lets shine the spotlight somewhere else.  Kinda like “why don’t you go to Iraq and fight?”.

The difference Einstein is that I was not named as a source for 61 stories over 7 months about supposed violent incidents.  The AP claimed he was a valid source and they lied. 

Did I tell the media that six men were burned alive?  No.  I posted my suspicions about Jamil, which later turned out to be valid. 

I have a feeling that you stopped reading by this point because unless you see Bush and Wrong in the same paragraph your mind probably wanders to the next bowl of weed your gonna smoke....so alas, go kill those brain cells.

Curt on December 14, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Avatar for Thom

Curt

Why couldn’t the answer be that they don’t have to prove themselves to everyone who throws up their arms and says “produce” the guy or anyone else? You can’t see how you could just look like another crackpot to them? Just for starters, you called Michael Schiavo a “wife killer.” Why should they give you the time of day?

Thom on December 16, 2006 at 11:04 am

Why couldn’t the answer be that they don’t have to prove themselves to everyone who throws up their arms and says “produce” the guy or anyone else? You can’t see how you could just look like another crackpot to them? Just for starters, you called Michael Schiavo a “wife killer.” Why should they give you the time of day?

Huh?  They claim that six men are set on fire and one of the major sources for this story is a police officer in Iraq.  When proof is given that this police officer is a fraud they now don’t have to answer the charge that they used a fraud for a story?

What kind of screwed up logic is that?  Should our press not be held accountable when they print lies?

Who cares if I look like a crackpot to them, they have to answer to the Iraqi government and the US Military who proved he was a fraud. 

And yup, Michael Schiavo is a wife killer.

Curt on December 16, 2006 at 02:37 pm

Should our press not be held accountable when they print lies?

They should be, but they’re not.  That is the big problem now in this country; we have a very large segment of the information apparatus that isn’t accountable, and so they function as the propaganda arm of those who would undermine and destroy the social institutions of this country.  Dan Rather still roams free, for one.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 16, 2006 at 04:58 pm
Avatar for nilsey

wassa matter? gettin scared to go?

nilsey on December 16, 2006 at 08:57 pm
Avatar for Devil's Advocate

Trying to backpedal about going to Iraq already? I thought the place was safer than [insert name of American city]…

Could it be that you are just a chickenhawk pissing his pants in terror at the mere thought of actually going into a war zone?

Don’t worry, dear, you won’t leave the Green Zone. In fact, you probably won’t leave the bar of your hotel. You and la Malkin can interview the bellhops and the maids, and come back claiming that Baghdad is such a quiet, nice, place to be.

Coward!

Devil's Advocate on December 17, 2006 at 05:01 am
Avatar for Evil Progressive

You and Malkin started the attack against AP. You are the ones who have to provide proof. Get your asses over to Iraq and go interview Iraqis OUTSIDE of the Green Zone.

Evil Progressive on December 17, 2006 at 05:35 am

To the hate-filled lefties:  This was no “attack” on AP; merely “the people’s right to know” if they are telling the truth or not.  Like it or not, after Rathergate and the fauxtography scandals, the MSM has lost its credibility, so expect a lot more accountability questions to arise.

EP: Nice to see you in typical leftie mode: trying to give orders to the rest of us.  “The dictatorship of the proletariat”, indeed.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 17, 2006 at 06:46 am

No, EP, your media outlet, Associated Press, has to supply evidence of what they report.

DA, I been to warzones, have you? Associated Press, Rueters, and CBS have all been caught lying. Burden of proof is on them. Why don’t they go to Iraq and then leave the Green Zone, the same way BBC does. The way NBC does. The way Australian Broadcasting does. The way Foxnews does. The way Donga-Ibo does.

What is wrong? You a coward?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 17, 2006 at 07:07 am
Avatar for Devil's Advocate

You attack AP and other news services because they refuse to disseminate the type of governmental propaganda spewed by Fox News. Get yourselves over to Iraq, tour the country, and come back with all the wonderful news. Then you may have some credibility.

Flip-Flop is trying to wriggle out of going to Iraq, and very transparently, I might add. He is a cowardly chickenhawk like all the armchair warmongers from the far right.

As for Malkin, I would not be surprised if one or both of her kids conveniently get(s) ill with some kiddie disease just as she is walking out the door. She will, of course, be forced to sacrifice an important moment in her “career” to tend to her offspring.

This said, bunch of cowardly right-nutters, as much as I enjoy rubbing your nose in your shit, I must depart. Have a lovely Sunday changing your “Depends”!

Devil's Advocate on December 17, 2006 at 07:58 am
Avatar for Devil's Advocate

One last comment:

Iraq is your war, you wanted it, you shilled for it, you fucked it up, now you own it.

Enlist, cowards! Or go explain to the families of the 22,000 wounded and the 3,000 dead why you cheer on the war but would not be caught dead near a recruiting office.

Devil's Advocate on December 17, 2006 at 08:02 am

6 years, US Army. Defending the lives and freedoms of cowardly little shits like you. What have you done to defend anyone other than your meth dealer?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 17, 2006 at 08:29 am
Avatar for jerry

Curt you should go and shut these idiots up. I know a few contractors over there and they just signed up for another 12 months (big bonus) Managing your fear is the trick.

jerry on December 17, 2006 at 10:41 am
Avatar for Bat One

DA,

I’m afraid that “coward” and “chicken hawk” shit isn’t likely to play awfully well here.  I had two tours of duty in Vietnam before you were much more than a wet spot in your momma’s panties… with the original Honorable Discharge and original medals and citations to prove it (unlike a certain idiot, Democrat Senator from Massachusetts.)

Calling others cowardly only serves to underline your own adolescent ignorance and fear.  Doing so without knowing who, or what, you’re talking about only emphasizes the point.

Look, kid, nobody much cares what you think or believe.  Both Michelle and Curt have far more credibility than you are likely to ever garner, as the sheer stupidity of your comments clearly demonstrates.

Come back again when you can stay longer, please.  Shooting fish in a barrel isn’t what we grown-ups actually consider target practice.  But it’ll do until a real, intellectually qualified opponent comes along.

Bat One on December 17, 2006 at 11:09 am
Avatar for Curt

You attack AP and other news services because they refuse to disseminate the type of governmental propaganda spewed by Fox News.

Geez you lefties have little to no brain cells left do you?  We attacked the AP because they used a fraud to report a lie.  Period.

You and Malkin started the attack against AP. You are the ones who have to provide proof.

We did provide proof.  The story is over.  The Iraqi Government has already stated he is a fraud.  This is a media stunt because of that very fact.  Ever since we proved that he was a fraud the AP has now used “anonymous” police officer.  I’m betting those are just as much a fraud as Jamil is.

Curt on December 17, 2006 at 11:16 am

Shooting fish in a barrel isn’t what we grown-ups actually consider target practice.  But it’ll do until a real, intellectually qualified opponent comes along.

ahem


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 17, 2006 at 11:18 am
Avatar for Bat One

Mike,

The line starts at those questions above regarding the justification for continued membership and active participation in the farce known as the United Nations, questions often alluded to between you and I in the past but never fully addressed.

At your most exasperated, you have never sunk to the level of petty, adolescent ad hominem, or questioning the qualifications or courage of those whose point of view differs from your own.  We may agree on few of today’s important issues, but your demeanor has always been the equal of your intellect… and your honesty.  A fish in a barrel you ain’t.

Bat One on December 17, 2006 at 11:36 am

A really fast fish in a very large barrel.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 17, 2006 at 01:04 pm

I know I don’t persuade anyone here but I hate to think of myself in fish terms...even fast ones. Nothing is gained when anyone questions someone’s personal character on the internet...I could be John Bolton having a lark or 2H9 could be Kofi A. working out some aggression.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 17, 2006 at 03:15 pm
Avatar for Bong

A really fast fish in a very large barrel.

Genius alert!

Just remember, caviar tastes better.

Bong on December 17, 2006 at 03:20 pm
Avatar for Robert Perry

A little lesson in logic for the liberal and “progressive” posters out here:

1.  When a man orders food to be withheld from his disabled wife, yes, he has killed her.

2.  Anonymous writers (say Curt, but he’s not really anonymous) can be trusted if they use verifiable evidence.  If one’s logic is sound and one’s data are verifiable, the conclusion cannot be easily refuted.  In this case, the Iraqis have noted that there never has been such a person as the AP claims.

3.  Known writers cannot be trusted if they use anonymous, unverifiable evidence.  (apply this one to the next DC “leak” story) The logic may be sound, but if the data cannot be verified, the conclusion is void.

4.  Finally, when you attack the person instead of the argument, you demonstrate that you have nothing substantive to say.

Robert Perry on December 18, 2006 at 06:20 am

I love lists!

1. Not true.

2. True

3. Not necessarily true but caution is certainly warranted.

4. Very true.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 18, 2006 at 06:45 am
Avatar for Devil's Advocate

Behold the lunatic fringe get their knickers into a twist at my comments. You are a risible—and small—minority. Like all losers, you have hitched your wagon to a loser: your Decider. Now you are stuck in your delusions and stupidity.

Meanwhile the majority of Americans is laughing at you. You and your ilk have zero credibility with the public. Of course, you would not know that since you only talk to other lunatics.

Curt and Malkin going to Iraq on a fact-finding mission? Right. Curt is already pissing his pants at the thought of Iraq and la Malkin is busy figuring out how she can get herself out of it.

Both were told to put up or shut up. Like all cowards and bullies, however, they are already crying for their mothers.

Cowards, all of you.

Devil's Advocate on December 18, 2006 at 07:01 am

Curt and Malkin going to Iraq on a fact-finding mission? Right. Curt is already pissing his pants at the thought of Iraq and la Malkin is busy figuring out how she can get herself out of it.

Any evidence of this, or are you just making it up?

What are you doing to fight the terrorists, hero?


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 18, 2006 at 07:16 am
Avatar for Bat One

Cowards, all of you.

Well, well.  The return of Hogan’s Goat!

Bat One on December 18, 2006 at 07:29 am
Avatar for HG

DA,

You seem to define cowardice as:

A) not going to Iraq to chase a story.

B) not enlisting in the US military.

C) all conservative “right wingers”

Also you are implying that being a police officer does not require bravery—if as you say, Curt is a coward. 

You can see why your attempt to rub the right wings nose in shit is simply impossible to do by one so full of it himself—or maybe you can’t.  The “shit” you see is in your own eyes and must be removed if you are to see clearly.

BTW how would someone as brilliant as yourself define bravery?

HG on December 18, 2006 at 07:37 am
Avatar for Bat One

Robert Perry says:

When a man orders food to be withheld from his disabled wife, yes, he has killed her.

MikeA replies:

Not true.

So, Mike, semantic, legal, and ethical judgments aside, how exactly do you conclude that willfully starving a person to death does not qualify as killing them?

Bat One on December 18, 2006 at 08:00 am

So, Mike, semantic, legal, and ethical judgments aside, how exactly do you conclude that willfully starving a person to death does not qualify as killing them?

Well, technically, he dehydrated her to death.  Maybe that explains it.  She died of dehydration before she had a chance to die from starvation, so he really didn’t “starve her to death”. He did kill her, though.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 18, 2006 at 08:16 am

Bat One...he facilitated the circumstances that allowed and/ or caused her death to exist. As her guardian, he exercised his authority to request that life support be withdrawn. He didn’t kill her, he allowed her to die. It’s never an easy decision to make and I hope I never have to make it.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 18, 2006 at 08:38 am

"Allowed her to die”?  A bit of sophistry there, I think.  Terri’s parents offered to pay for her care, so Michael caused her to be dehydrated to death; the only life support she was on was food and water. As far as I know, it isn’t generally considered good form to withhold food and water from another person.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 18, 2006 at 08:44 am
Avatar for Bat One

MikeA,

Mind you, I have no objection to so-called “full-figured” women.

That said, reading your comment above regarding the death of Terri Schiavo, I envision just such a woman trying vainly to squeeze her size 12 ass into a pair of size 8 Calvin Klein jeans.

No matter how contorted or convoluted, Mike, it just ain’t gonna fit.

Bat One on December 18, 2006 at 08:58 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Mike, one may quibble over whether the killing was murder or not, but when you orchestrate the situations that lead to someone’s death, you have killed them.  Is that so complicated?

And yes, when a point is made by unverifiable evidence, no one is under any obligation to take it seriously.  Again, it’s sad that the AP and most DC media apparently can’t figure this one out.  A story on “shadow evidence” is at best an excuse for further investigation.

Many thanks, by the way, to many like Devil’s Advocate who are intent on proving point #4.

Robert Perry on December 18, 2006 at 09:03 am

r108...it is sophistry to those who don’t make a distinction between active and passive euthanasia but since I do then I don’t feel I’m trying to muddy the waters. Michael could certainly have allowed/caused her to live but then he wouldn’t have been executing her wishes...not an easy case.

Bat One...see the above and believe that I don’t reach my ethical conclusions lightly. Based on available information I have to believe that the right thing was done.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 18, 2006 at 09:44 am

RP said

Is that so complicated?

Of course it is. Where does the chain of responsibility begin and end? This was clearly a case of passive euthanasia with the husband making the life or death decision but he didn’t kill her.

And yes, when a point is made by unverifiable evidence, no one is under any obligation to take it seriously.

I agree with this formulation and I wouldn’t take it seriously myself unless the writer has given me reason to trust his work before.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on December 18, 2006 at 09:50 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Passive?  What on earth is passive about going to court for over a decade to get the order to terminate feeding?  Yes, he didn’t pull the tube himself, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was awfully active in getting his wife killed.

Again, the question is whether he murdered her or not, not whether he killed her.

Robert Perry on December 18, 2006 at 10:16 am
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Mike, you seem to be playing a pretty inane game of semantics here.  That Michael Schiavo killed is wife is a fact.  What is debatable is whether or not that killing was an act of mercy or an act of murder.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 18, 2006 at 10:20 am
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Sorry, Rob, that is not a fact, only in your mind is it so.

Puzzlefeet on December 18, 2006 at 10:42 am
Avatar for Bat One

I don’t reach my ethical conclusions lightly. Based on available information I have to believe that the right thing was done.

Mike,

While I have no doubt that you are meticulously conscientious in making ethical decisions, that fact in no way validates your conclusions.  Certainly not in this case, it doesn’t.

The question posed was not one regarding the correctness of the Schiavo decision.  The question was whether or not that decision to disconnect her feeding and hydration killed her.  You can hardly approve of that decision as “the right thing” while arguing that your “right thing” didn’t kill the woman.

Bat One on December 18, 2006 at 12:03 pm

Michael could certainly have allowed/caused her to live but then he wouldn’t have been executing her wishes…

So then dehydrating her to death was in her interest?
The fact is, he was the sole source of what were purported to be “her wishes”.  No one else had ever heard her express the wish to be “euthanized”.
His ignoring her parents’ offer, plus his financial interest in her death should have been enough to establish conflict of interest.  I still maintain that the court let her down, and didn’t protect her right to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 18, 2006 at 12:24 pm

That Michael Schiavo killed is wife is a fact. 

In what way did he kill her? I think George W. Bush killed her.
Dave_Comet on December 18, 2006 at 12:26 pm
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I don’t think anyone here is interested in an argument over the nuances of death with someone who can’t tell the moral difference between the Holocaust and a Sat. afternoon burger fry.

Maybe if you were an intellectually honest person people would be willing to engage you, Davey.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 18, 2006 at 01:08 pm

That I am right is a fact.

This is fun! We never have to provide the reasons why we hold assertions to be true!

Dave_Comet on December 18, 2006 at 01:10 pm
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This is fun! We never have to provide the reasons why we hold assertions to be true!

They’re used to being preached at. Faith requires no reason. Reason is against their religion.

Bongo on December 18, 2006 at 01:21 pm
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Bongo, I have no religion.  Nor am I a southern apologist for the confederates.  So far you’re 0/2 with me.

Maybe try being smart.

Dave, still waiting for you to post something intelligent and worth responding to.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 18, 2006 at 01:26 pm
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Rob: I’m not personally attacking you. I’m making a blanket accusation of the blog posters. Tit for tat.

Bongo on December 18, 2006 at 01:32 pm
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Yes, Bongo.  Your comments are so constructive.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 18, 2006 at 01:39 pm
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No less than yours. Wanna cookie?

;;
                .---. .---. 
               :     : 
o   :    me want cookie!
           
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    `
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`.  '`.                   .' ' .'
      `.    `-._           _.-' "  .'  .----.
        `. "    '"--...--"'  
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`-._'    " .     " _.-'`. :       o  :
      .
'      ```--.....--'''    ' `:_ o       :
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.'      .-'
  '  "     "   '      "           "    
_.-'

Bongo on December 18, 2006 at 01:50 pm
Avatar for Dave

Rob: Something as intelligent and worth responding to as “That Michael Schiavo killed is wife is a fact”?

But I already made a completely asinine assertion without providing any evidence for it. What more can I do?

Dave on December 18, 2006 at 03:32 pm
Avatar for Nick

I worry, as others have, that this may be a set-up of some kind.  Think about it.  Eason Jordon should have a easy time of finding Jamil Hussein since the AP has said they have been talked to him for over two years…

Huh? No time for worrying buddy.  I know you’re scared, but go to Iraq, already.  You can do it. Baghdad is safe, safe safe!  Like Fargo on a Sunday afternoon.  All this civil war crap is a fantasy made up by Bush hating lefties. Remember?

This is your big chance to show up the “MSM”. And don’t just hang out in the Green Zone. Make sure you interview LOTS of primary sources, get LOTS of exposure to the real Iraq where the IEDs and insurgents are, unlike those lazy journos you mock.

Nick on December 21, 2006 at 07:06 pm
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I worry, as others have, that this may be a set-up of some kind.  Think about it.  Eason Jordon should have a easy time of finding Jamil Hussein since the AP has said they have been talked to him for over two years…

Buddy, for some reason, you seem nervous over this upcoming trip to Iraq. You’re probably shitting yourself silly over all those reports about people turning up dead in the morning with a power drill marks in their joints and head, all that torture stuff.

Pay no attention to the MSM my friend. They persist in reporting on irrelevant news like people showing up tortured and dead in batches of 60-70 per day. Why don’t those softy lefties report on REAL NEWS.  Like the new POP MACHINES in Baghdad high schools. Hear that CNN??  Badghdad’s teens can now select between Coke, Sprite, and Mountain Dew. MOUNTAIN DEW, you bastards!

Baghdad is safe, safe, safe my friend.  You should go.  You too Curt.

Nick on December 21, 2006 at 07:40 pm

Nick: Nice try at changing the subject, but none of your snark changes the fact that the AP is probably guilty of fabrication here.  They have used the probably non-existent Captain Jamil Hussein as the “source” for over sixty reports, and now it looks like they were making it up, or at best, not bothering to check and verify their source, so they were running propaganda for the terrorists.  Just because AP exaggerated the violence doesn’t mean there isn’t any, just that there is less than they have been reporting.  Duh.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 21, 2006 at 08:22 pm

Are you going too, little nicky? Associated Press lies. Rueters lies. CBS lies. None of their reporters leave their hotel rooms. BBC reporters routinely travel through out Iraq. FoxNews reporters routinely travel through out Iraq. NBC reporters routinely travel through out Iraq. Australian Broadcasting reporters routinely travel through out Iraq. Hell, Donga-Ibo has more personnel working outside secured areas in Iraq and Afghanistan than AP, Rueters, and CBS combined.

Rob, Curt. All these leftarded comments come from the same source, RYP. He has been instigating commentalanches on blogs that take issue with reporting from Iraq.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 22, 2006 at 03:45 am
Avatar for Nick

Are you going too, little nicky? Associated Press lies. Rueters lies. CBS lies. None of their reporters leave their hotel rooms. BBC reporters routinely travel through out Iraq.

Er, no.  My uh power drill allergy has been acting up. Oh and golly gee I’m not sure I can get the time off work.

But you go ahead. 

And really, why stop at exposing the case of Captain Jamil Hussein and 6 deaths reported a month ago. Sure it may SEEM kind of unhinged and irrational to obsess over one story in a massive flood of unhappy news.  So go ahead, investigate all those reports of deaths in the past month, like this one
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,238272,00.html
or this one
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236982,00.html?sPage=fnc.world/iraq
I’m sure all those bad news stories will collapse like George Allen’s Senate campaign.

Take a sabattical from work.  Take an unpaid leave. It’s a small price to pay for the TRUTH COMING OUT. 

See the problem with the war isn’t that our President lied about WMDs or Iraq’s involvement in 9/11.  The problem isn’t the fact that we ignored all the folks Bush 41’s administration who said this was going to be a fiasco.  It’s not that we stupidly ignored those pussies from the army like Shinseki, who said we’d need way more troops on the ground. And the problem certainly isn’t the failure to plan effectively for the post war administration.

THE PROBLEM IS THE PRESS. Sorry my CAPS lock key sometimes gets stuck when I get excited. Those liberal fuckers are wrecking the fighting man’s strength by reporting on all these ‘bombings’ and ‘torture’ and ‘mass killings.’

Yes, I look forward to at least of reporting from Iraq from Michelle Malkin and Curt of Flopping Aces. You can do better than those lazy, cowardly AP reporters.  Make sure you get to those hotspots like Haditha and Samarra and interview the relevant people.  Tell us how the local public library got some new books, and the post office got that squeaky door fixed, thanks to the war in Iraq.

You’ll be welcomed as liberators.  They’ll throw rose petals at you.

Nick on December 22, 2006 at 06:10 am

Where is your proof of any of these things you have written,RYP? Oh, and we all thing it so cute how you switch usenames. Did Eason teach you that? Or did you think of it all by your ity bity precious self?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 22, 2006 at 06:21 am

Nick: You fail to stay on subject, again.  The truth is that AP has lied to us, repeatedly.  We know of phony reports from at least two non-existent sources, totalling almost a hundred “stories” over the past few years, so the real question is: How many “stories” are fictional?  The burden of proof is on AP now, to prove that anything they say is either true or accurate.  Your droning on and on with the leftie talking points will not restore the credibility of AP.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 22, 2006 at 07:46 am
Avatar for Nick

Nick: You fail to stay on subject, again.  The truth is that AP has lied to us, repeatedly.  We know of phony reports from at least two non-existent sources, totalling almost a hundred “stories” over the past few years, so the real question is: How many “stories” are fictional?.

Pay no attention to this guy, Curt and Michelle. Get your butts to Iraq pronto and get to the bottom of Jamilgate. We’re depending on you.

The leftards say that 139 journalists have been killed in Iraq since 2003 but that’s probably more bogus bad news.This is no time to puss out over a trip to Baghdad. Just remember to bring your rose-petal-proof vest.

Nick on December 22, 2006 at 08:51 am

Definite lack of substance.  I support the truth being revealed about AP’s dishonest journalism, no matter how it’s done.  I think Eason Jordan(an admitted liar) is trying to pull off a stunt here, since his dishonesty is well-known. Nick, I nominate you to do the fact-finding here, instead of trying to pimp others to do it.  You have a big mouth, with nothing behind it.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on December 22, 2006 at 09:19 am
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