The Problem With The Progressive Worldview

• October 11, 2005

…a problem many people have with the progressive worldview that feels the need to establish its bona fides with knee jerk self-criticism before it can dare criticize others / Others. Comparing even obliquely the situation of women in Saudi Arabia to that of women here, causes many people in the center and on the right (and probably a few pragmatic Dems, too) to tune out. In fact, such mannered, rote, forced introspection is the reason CNN and the networks lost so many viewers after 911. Its the reason people have cancelled their subscriptions to major newspapers. In its desire to spread the offense and so avoid the charge of making a directed rebuke (which rebuke would invariably be labeled racist, imperialist, sexist, homophobic, etc), it ends up putting people off and soft-peddling the abhorent behavior it starts out to criticize.
We in the US know our failings. We know our past. And we know that, at heart, we are a good country. But after 911, we surrendered much of the liberal guilt we had the luxury to feel when we thought wed reached the end of history, and we have little time for it now, particularly when it strains to point up a symmetry between ourselves and the culture from which our enemy springs like some sword-wielding weed.

Read the whole thing.

Tags: Politics

http://Array Carrick

Hyperbole is not reasoning.

Yes, exactly. But neither is vague muttering. Specific example please? Why not take a quote from Jeff’s post, and show us how it’s hyperbole.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

WOOF said, His screed is full of “because of that comes this.”

Could you give us an example?

I find his reasoning a stretch.

What, exactly, do you disagree with?
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Read my first post lik.

I did WOOF. I see a vague complaint. I asked for specifics. Apparently you can’t deliver.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Hyperbole is not reasoning.

So that is your only complaint? You haven’t touched upon the base of Jeff Goldstein’s argument, I noticed. You only nitpicked upon that one phrase.
http://proteinwisdom.comio/ Jeff G

The End of History was posited by Francis Fukuyama and was thought by many to be the state of the world once communism was defeated with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Fukuyame dealt with the potentiality of Islamic extremism, if I’m remembering correctly, as essentially a fringe movement. He also thought China would succumb to the capitalist system.
Carrick

WOOF:

Because I am not a scatologist.

Well, you were enough of a literary critic to say

Jeff G is clear as mud.

When called upon to defend your derisive comment, the best you could come up with is “end of history”—reasonably well-known literary reference (to those of us who read, anyway).

You may be no scatologist, but you are one big bullshitter.
Carrick

1) Do we?

Given that some of us can’t even reprimand a man who would beat his wife to within inches of her life without groveling on the floor (the post Jeff was responding to), I would say “yes”.

2)We know our past. /He is kidding?

Speak for yourself, you delusional fool.

3) Did you?

Nope. I make it a policy to never bear extraneous crosses. Then again, I think Jeff was referring to himself and others like him.

Thanks or the advice, don’t bother to invoice me

Who would bother?

Good on snarkdom, WOOF. Zero on substance as usual.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

Because I am not a scatologist.

In other words: you have no argument and have no freaking idea what you mean.

Thanks for the admittal WOOF.
Andrey Fedorov

This phrase doesn’t make sense to me: "forced introspection". I guess it’s what you call introspection if you’re in denial…
WOOF

Goldstein BullShit

1)We in the US know our failings.

2)We know our past.

3)But after 911, the majority of us surrendered the liberal guilt we had the luxury to wallow in

4) Repubs and independents explained what needs happen to the Dem Party before they’d consider voting that way again

1) Do we?

2) he is kidding

3) Did you?

4) Thanks or the advice, don’t bother to invoice me.
WOOF

Jeff G is clear as mud.

forced introspection is the reason CNN and the networks lost so many viewers after 911

ItÂ’s the reason people have cancelled their subscriptions to major newspapers

desire to spread the offense and so avoid the charge of making a directed rebuke (which rebuke would invariably be labeled racist, imperialist, sexist, homophobic, etc

we surrendered much of the liberal guilt we had the luxury to feel when we thought weÂ’d reached the end of history

End of history?
Carrick

Personally, I liked the “end of history” literary reference.

My opinion, WOOF, is your basic problem with his post is in his conclusions and not the reasoning used to support them.
Carrick

WOOF, try reading the entire post.

I had no problems following what he said (in context).
Carrick

WOOF: Congratulations for chairing the most banal discussion going nowhere I have seen in years. As likwid said:

In other words: you have no argument and have no freaking idea what you mean.

I guess that says it all. Clear as shit.

In the mean time, I really liked the first comment from Jeff’s blog:

When you mentioned “knee jerk self criticism” the light bulb went on. Self criticism was de rigeur in all the old Marxist/Leninist discourse. We cannot be pure, our system cannot be pure, until it has been subjected to self critical analysis. Self criticism is central to finding truth! And anyone who cannot see the value of this has either been duped into believing what they believe or is (shudder) a wrecker out to discredit and/or destroy the progressive cause. Another tenet of the modern left. It never totally dawned on me before but they are all still a bunch of damned Marxists — sltv

Make sure to read the posts to Jeff’s posts, they are usually quite lively and intelligent, unlike WOOF’s pointless commentary in this thread.
WOOF

you are one big bullshitter.

Not compared to Goldstein.

You can opine on his rant if you want.
Praise his truths to the heavens.
WOOF

Because I am not a scatologist.
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

WOOF said, Read it, have trouble with his jumping to conclusions.
Looked up “end of history”

Are you just going to nitpick on that one phrase WOOF or do you have anything to discuss about the actual subject?
http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

WOOF said, Not compared to Goldstein.

Where’s the bullshit? *cue WOOF’s tap dance and empty partisanship*
WOOF

End of History was not in my Lexicon, so I learned something.

problem with his post is in his conclusions and not the reasoning used to support them.

Hyperbole is not reasoning.
WOOF

Read my first post lik.
WOOF

Read it, have trouble with his jumping to conclusions.
Looked up “end of history”

that liberal democracy may constitute the “end point of mankind’s ideological evolution” and the “final form of human government,” and as such constituted the “end of history.” That is, while earlier forms of government were characterised by grave defects and irrationalities that led to their eventual collapse, liberal democracy was arguably free from such fundamental internal contradictions

http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/fukuyama.htm
WOOF

His screed is full of “because of that comes this.”

He is entitled to his opinions.

I find his reasoning a stretch.
Carrick

WOOF:

Read it, have trouble with his jumping to conclusions.

Not to be obtuse, but where did you think he was jumping to conclusions?

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