Home Mobile Archives Reader Blogs Register Login

Sunday, January 13, 2008

The New York Times Smears Our Veterans As Criminals

In an article where the subtext is that war turns our soldiers into criminals, the New York Times notes that a couple of hundred veterans, including 121 from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, have been accused and/or convicted of crimes involving killing.

The New York Times found 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan committed a killing in this country, or were charged with one, after their return from war. In many of those cases, combat trauma and the stress of deployment — along with alcohol abuse, family discord and other attendant problems — appear to have set the stage for a tragedy that was part destruction, part self-destruction.

Three-quarters of these veterans were still in the military at the time of the killing. More than half the killings involved guns, and the rest were stabbings, beatings, strangulations and bathtub drownings. Twenty-five offenders faced murder, manslaughter or homicide charges for fatal car crashes resulting from drunken, reckless or suicidal driving.

The conclusion we’re supposed to take away is that war turns our soldiers into murderers.  But there are a number of problems here.

First, the Times uses instances where soldiers were merely charged with a crime.  Does it still count if the soldier was acquitted?  What happened to “innocent until proven guilty?”

Second, 121 soldiers out of all the soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan is a number so low as to be statistically irrelevant.  According to this Global Security article, as of 2005 some 1,048,884 soldiers had served in Iraq.  If we extrapolate that number out to include the last two years we hit about 1.5 million.  Using that figure, we can conclude that the 121 veterans who have been charged and sometimes convicted of killing represent 0.000081% of Iraq war veterans.  That percentage would be far lower if we included Afghanistan veterans as well, though that number is hard to quantify as there are many soldiers who have served in both wars.  Again, though, we can safely conclude that the number of soldiers convicted of killing is statistically insignificant.

Third, the rate of killers among veterans is only slightly higher than the rate of killers among the overall population.  According to Department of Justice numbers, in 2006 0.000057% of the US population was convicted of murder or non-negligent homicide.  That’s lower than the rate we arrive at for Iraq war veterans using the New York Times numbers, but lets remember that the Times counted instances were veterans were merely charged and not convicted.  That inflates the total for veterans.  Also remember that most veterans are males, and that males are more likely to commit murder than females.  This also inflates the numbers for veterans.  Conclusion?  I think it’s safe to say that your average veteran is no more likely to murder you than the average American citizen.

The New York Times ought to be ashamed of itself for printing this drivel.  It’s clearly politically motivated, and the subtext of the article - that war is turning our soldiers into criminal killers - just isn’t factual.  This is a slander upon the reputation of our brave soldiers, but sadly that isn’t something all that surprising when you consider the source.

Comments

According to Department of Justice numbers, in 2006 0.000057% of the US population was convicted of murder or non-negligent homicide.  That’s lower than the rate we arrive at for Iraq war veterans using the New York Times numbers, but lets remember that the Times counted instances were veterans were merely charged and not convicted.

The other thing is most veterans are relatively young males.  That’s the demographic with the highest rate of violent crime.

It seems pretty clear that veterans (or at least servicemen) are the most law abiding males of their age group.

I talked to one recruiter who said one of their main challenges is getting recruits with a clean record so they CAN sign up.  We’re starting with very good raw material.

God bless our service members.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on January 13, 2008 at 08:45 pm

How many criminals went to government schools, taught by union teachers?

Kevin on January 13, 2008 at 08:51 pm

more correctly they went to government schools but were NOT taught by union teachers.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on January 13, 2008 at 08:54 pm
Avatar for Lestat

I think it’s safe to say that your average veteran is no more likely to murder you than the average American citizen.

Actually if we use your numbers, the average veteran is about 1/3 more likely to murder me than the average citizen, but neither is likely to happen.

Lestat on January 13, 2008 at 09:05 pm

Lesat,

If all 121 accused of murder actually did the deed…


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on January 13, 2008 at 09:53 pm

Lestat,

They also cite “Twenty-five offenders faced murder, manslaughter or homicide charges for fatal car crashes resulting from drunken, reckless or suicidal driving.” as being a part of that total, which takes the number down under 100 per 1.5 million.

Figures don’t lie, but liars do indeed figure.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on January 13, 2008 at 09:58 pm

I wonder if the NYT is right on top of the number of violent crimes committed by invaders?  Or, would that be considered racist?


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on January 13, 2008 at 11:29 pm

I would hope that our soldiers don’t have a problem with killing or hesitate when the time comes. With a volunteer military, the people signing up accept the idea that they may have to or get to, depending on their point of view, kill. Besides the fact that war changes a guy, I would be more surprised to learn that soldiers are less or even equally violent.

ews48 on January 13, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Avatar for Jamelle

Perhaps the New York Times was only trying to draw attention to the damage war can do to the psychological state of soldiers, especially when there has been a dearth of mental health resources for returning soldiers.

Jamelle on January 14, 2008 at 01:22 am

No body should be shocked that this leftist rag defamed the troops we all know the New York times wants a leftwing leanging blame america first administration that takes its marching orders from George Soros and Moveon.org and from old europe.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on January 14, 2008 at 01:26 am

That the [New York] Times would side with terrorists against fellow Americans is not surprising. This malignant institution is presided over by a squishy, larva-like creature who is quite proud of his treasonous impulses. Publisher Arthur “Pinch” Sulzberger is fond of telling the story of how he let his father Punch, from whom he inherited control of the paper, know whose side he was on in the Vietnam War. Via NRO:

Pinch was a political activist in the Sixties, and was twice arrested in anti-Vietnam protests. One day, the elder Sulzberger asked his son what Pinch calls, “the dumbest question I’ve ever heard in my life.” If an American soldier runs into a North Vietnamese soldier, which would you like to see get shot? Young Arthur answered, “I would want to see the American get shot. It’s the other guy’s country.” Some Sixties activists have since thought better of their early enthusiasms. Pinch hasn’t.

Geez.  I am shocked—shocked, that the Leftard rag NYT hasn’t focused on how many illegal aliens are causing deaths of Americans every day.  Instead, they focus a very small subset of Americas soldiers.

While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens, he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another annual death toll of 4,745. That’s 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.

[COMMENT] for a total of 25 Americans killed a day.  Odd.... I don’t hear the NYT waving the bloody shirt against illegal immigration.

Obviously, it’s not the numbers that give rise to the NYT’s concern… it’s who they can defame using them.


...for great justice

Move_Zig on January 14, 2008 at 01:59 am
Avatar for Corey Mondello

For those who want to blame the “left” for anything to do with not supporting the troops....get your facts straight.

It has been my understanding, when reading, researching and hearing anything about cuts to benefits, armor/protection, medical care or anything else promised or what one would expect would be promised or offered to the troops and vets, are cut by and wanted to be cut by Republicans.

I wonder how than, anyone can say it is the “Left” that does not support the troops when all facts say it is the “Right” that does not support troops.

That is more important to me, not what some paper states.

BTW, wasn’t it the NYT that brought the Walter Reed issue to light where many veterans were cared for in a very poor way, quite disgustingly actually.

Well, I have tried to compile some info supporting my statements;

http://www.coreymondello.com/RepublicansVersusTroopsJan72003toOctober2006.html

BTW;
Here is another reason why the “right” gets it all wrong;

http://www.coreymondello.com/JoeRepublican.html

Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts

http://www.CoreyMondello.com
1-14-08

Corey Mondello on January 14, 2008 at 04:39 am

So, the Democrat controlled Congress of the ‘80s and early ‘90s was run by the Republicans? The Democrat controlled Congress under Jimmah Cahter was run by Republicans. As for the last 6 years, John Murtha is a Republican? Teddi Kennedy is a Republican? Robbie Byrd is a Republican? Harry Reid is a Republican? J. Rockefeller is a Republican? Hillary Clinton is a Republican? Charlie Rangel is a Republican? Nanny Pelosi is a Republican? etc etc.

Do you really expect anyone who has paid attention for the last 20-25 years to buy this load of crap you are shoveling?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 05:13 am

Here you go, point to the people who have been obstructing our military for the last 20 years.

Democrats

Republicans

Ike Skelton, Missouri, Chairman

Duncan Hunter, California, Ranking Member

John Spratt, South Carolina

Jim Saxton, New Jersey

Solomon P. Ortiz, Texas

John M. McHugh, New York

Gene Taylor, Mississippi

Terry Everett, Alabama

Neil Abercrombie, Hawaii

Roscoe G. Bartlett, Maryland

Silvestre Reyes, Texas

Buck McKeon, California

Vic Snyder, Arkansas

Mac Thornberry, Texas

Adam Smith, Washington

Walter B. Jones, North Carolina

Loretta Sanchez, California

Robin Hayes, North Carolina

Mike McIntyre, North Carolina

W. Todd Akin, Missouri

Ellen O. Tauscher, California

J. Randy Forbes, Virginia

Robert A. Brady, Pennsylvania

Jeff Miller, Florida

Robert Andrews, New Jersey

Joe Wilson, South Carolina

Susan A. Davis, California

Frank A. LoBiondo, New Jersey

Rick Larsen, Washington

Tom Cole, Oklahoma

Jim Cooper, Tennessee

Rob Bishop, Utah

Jim Marshall, Georgia

Michael Turner, Ohio

Madeleine Z. Bordallo, Guam

John Kline, Minnesota

Mark Udall, Colorado

Candice S. Miller, Michigan

Dan Boren, Oklahoma

Phil Gingrey, Georgia

Brad Ellsworth, Indiana

Mike Rogers, Alabama

Nancy Boyda, Kansas

Trent Franks, Arizona

Patrick Murphy, Pennsylvania

Bill Shuster, Pennsylvania

Hank Johnson, Georgia

Thelma Drake, Virginia

Carol Shea-Porter, New Hampshire

Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Washington

Joe Courtney, Connecticut

Michael Conaway, Texas

David Loebsack, Iowa

Geoff Davis, Kentucky

Kirsten Gillibrand, New York

Doug Lamborn, Colorado

Joe Sestak, Pennsylvania

Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona

Niki Tsongas, Massachusetts

Elijah Cummings, Maryland

Kendrick Meek, Florida

Kathy Castor, Florida

‘splain it to us, sweety.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 05:18 am

And lets us not be leaving out the Senate, might hurt their feelings.

Carl Levin (Michigan)
Chairman

Edward M. Kennedy (Massachusetts)
Robert C. Byrd (West Virginia)
Joseph I. Lieberman (Connecticut)
Jack Reed (Rhode Island)
Daniel K. Akaka (Hawaii)
Bill Nelson (Florida)
E. Benjamin Nelson (Nebraska)
Evan Bayh (Indiana)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (New York)
Mark L. Pryor (Arkansas)
Jim Webb (Virginia)
Claire McCaskill (Missouri)

REPUBLICANS

John McCain (Arizona)
Ranking Member

John W. Warner (Virginia)
James M. Inhofe (Oklahoma)
Jeff Sessions (Alabama)
Susan M. Collins (Maine)
Saxby Chambliss (Georgia)
Lindsey O. Graham (South Carolina)
Elizabeth Dole (North Carolina)
John Cornyn (Texas)
John Thune (South Dakota)
Mel Martinez (Florida)
Bob Corker (Tennessee)

This one is segregated, just like you leftards like it.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 05:25 am

Corey probably thinks Teddy is too conservative to represent him!



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on January 14, 2008 at 05:37 am

I went to check out its site, got an immediate security flag and backed out.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 05:44 am

I just went to corey’s site and all I can say is blah, blah, the joe conservative is mildly amusging.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on January 14, 2008 at 05:57 am
Avatar for Tuna

The NY Times is proof of evolution--it’s rapidly becoming a neighborhood weekly.

Tuna on January 14, 2008 at 06:29 am

Security sweep finished, and blahblah is about it. Found this more amusing than any of the rest of it,"Congratulations to the Lakota from the Sioux Indian reservations of Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana for after a 33 year struggle, finally becoming Independent Soveirgn Nation in the United States Of America, December 19, 2007”, this, and veganism. Too funny.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 06:43 am
Avatar for FlyOnTheWall

“Twenty-five offenders faced murder, manslaughter or homicide charges for fatal car crashes resulting from drunken, reckless or suicidal driving.”

I’m shocked that number isn’t higher.  The guys coming home are told not to drive for a month because of the driving habits they acquire while in theater.  SOP driving there is downright assinine here and it’s a hard habit to break. 

I’m seeing from the numbers that if you take the demographics involved and the percentages, the question becomes “why are so few comitting criminal acts and how do we get the rest of the population to those numbers?”

FlyOnTheWall on January 14, 2008 at 01:38 pm

Fly, it is odd. I knew a kid as he was growing up, always a problem, never anything major, just in low grade trouble. Figured him for a criminal, his brothers and most friends all are, his dad suicided in ‘96, mom is in jail for meth use/selling. Joined PA NG in 2000 for schooling. 2 combat tours in Irag, both hot. Out now, lost hearing and caught a load of shrap. Man is squared away. Still got the temper, and drinks too much. Criminal? No. Just proves you never know.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 14, 2008 at 07:00 pm

You would think that the NYT should have to be registered as a syndicated stringer or foreign agent for the modern-day Tass, Pravda or Izvestia. The tactics are the same, however, seeming just a tad more subtle than the home offices of Moscow Center.

In April 2007, BJS issued a detailed report showing that veterans were half as likely as non-veterans to be in prison, but that was explained mainly by the fact that two-thirds of male veterans in the population at large were aged 55 or older (older people are less likely to be found behind bars). The incarcerated veterans were somewhat more likely than incarcerated non-veterans to have committed violent crimes, and far more likely to have committed violent crimes against females or minors. There is, however, no evidence at all that ex-military personnel, including veterans who served in combat theatres and saw action, figure significantly or disproportionately in murder, rape, robbery, burglary, or property crimes.

The “Deadly Echoes” story spotlighted an important issue and sensitively profiled several tragic incidents. In many respects it was a model piece of journalism. But, in such a lengthy report, the Times should have done more to put its 121 cases against a broader data backdrop or two, been clearer about what nobody really knows about the subject, and taken much greater care than it did to avoid echoing what the VFW, in a 2006 story referenced by the reporters, rightly rejected as the “wacko-vet” myth.
-- John J. DiIulio Jr., The Wacko-Vet Myth, in the Weekly Standard


...for great justice

Move_Zig on January 15, 2008 at 07:46 pm
Avatar for Melvin Trustaff

The real issue here is that the veterans of today are not like the “real” American men of the World War II and Korea era.  Since the Vietnam era they have been dope addled criminals.  The true figures of their crimes have been kept from the public.

Melvin Trustaff on March 25, 2008 at 01:54 pm

.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 25, 2008 at 01:58 pm

Rod, I can understand your rather mild admonishment, but I don’t believe “melvin” is mentally capable of grasping such a direct and straight forward assessment of the situation. Let me put it into an frame of reference it can grasp.

melvin, fuck you, you cock sucking little piece of shit. Is that phrased in small enough words you can understand, you fuck?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on March 25, 2008 at 07:56 pm
Page 1 of 1        

Post a Comment


Before commenting, please recite:

Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Name   
Email   
URL   
Human?
  
 

Upload Image    

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Note: Notifications will only be sent to confirmed email addresses.