The Horrors Of Government Health Care: Woman With Brain Tumor Forced To Flee Canadian Health Care

Proof • July 13, 2009

A compelling story indicating that, for all the flaws of America’s way of doing health care, we’re still better off keeping the government from taking over.

What got me the most was not the point at which it was revealed that she would have gone blind if she had waited to get treatment in the Canadian health care system, which is bad enough, but rather at the end when this couple indicated that they’re now $100,000 in debt as a result of the testing and treatments she got to remove her brain tumor. She gets emotional and she cries at the fact that her husband had to get a second job and pick up hours to pay off their debts. While I’m sure her good health and vision was worth this mighty sum to them, keep in mind that not only does this couple have to pay off their $100,000 debt but they must also continue to pay sky-high taxes to the Canadian government so that it can continue to fund a health care system that failed them.
Again, there is nothing perfect about market-driven health care systems. But the idea that the government can somehow run health care better is ridiculous. Better to have a system where you can buy all the health care you need, knowing that you may not always be able to afford all that you can get, rather than a system where some bureaucrats decide when and where and how much health care you can get no matter what you do.

Tags: Asshats, Domestic Issues, Politics

http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Actually American’s are happy with their health coverage. The whole thing about being an inadequate system is spin brought about by the guys that want to destroy what we have.

In any case, not “all accounts”. According to this account, only 7% of British respondents are “very satisfied” with their system (and the majority are either dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with it).

In our case 70% of people that are paying for their coverage rate it as good or excellent. Only 6% rate it as poor.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

So compassionate was the American system she has to pay back the $100,000. If she lived here there would be a 1 in 6 chance she’s have no health coverage at all. If she did, the MBA who ran her plan would decide if she got an MRI and treatment.

The Canadians still have a better system despite the anecdotes. This woman’s predictions of how her condition would progress are speculation.

The $100,000 cost to her is proof that our system is in need of fixing. But if you people think that we can keep offering everyone first class while only wanting to spend coach, go for it. As costs escalate much faster than the rate of inflation, more companies will drop coverage and the selfish middle class will begin losing their benefits in large numbers and having to go broke paying for it themselves.

I’ll laugh.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Just because there is a recourse doesn’t mean everyone has the ability to pursue such recourse,

They may have to hire a lawyer on a contingency basis which although less than perfect is better than nothing like you get in Canada when you have a problem.

Like I said before, if that weren’t the case insurance companies wouldn’t hire entire departments dedicated solely to finding innovative ways to deny and delay payment for coverage they have contracted to pay for.

And as I said before, and you didn’t understand, go figure, is that if that does happen it’s better than being up in a government run plan where there is no recourse and the government can do whatever they want.

Plus it doesn’t do the victim much good even if the family does get some restitution.

Actually it does, they have the treatment and get their bills hopefully taken care of. Better late than never. This lady doesn’t have a chance to do that because you can’t sue the government.

These single payer plans have flirted with making it illegal period to let people pay for coverage they want. In fact, what happen when a medicare patient wants to pay their doctor for something extra here in the USA?

And it certainly doesn’t help the numerous other families who didn’t have the ability to pursue such recourse.

I see you object to our system which despite it’s shortcomings is very good in favor of a crappy system like Canada has.

Pretty idiotic actually. No government programs are nearly as good as the proponents claim before it’s enacted.
Hannitized

This is media bias on the part of CNN. They hate Obama.
carrick

AV:

But from all accounts, the British are mostly happy with their system, but the issues it has they blame Thatcher (a conservative funnily enough) for cannibalizing it. The concern is the underfunding, not that there are systemic issues.

Exactly what “account” are you basing this on? Commondreams.mybrainisdead.com?

In any case, not “all accounts”. According to this account, only 7% of British respondents are “very satisfied” with their system (and the majority are either dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with it).

And one of the biggest issues?

Rationing of health care, which is indeed a systemic problem with the system. It is inherent in this form of socialized medicine.

You live in a fantasy world, my friend.
Tim

And the only reason she got treatment here is because she had $100,000 to spend.

So what’s the big deal. That’s how the health care system should work. Health care is a commodity just like anything else.

Only those that can afford to pay for health care deserve to be able to receive it.

Those that can’t afford to pay for their health care, should just be told to prepare to die.

Hard working Americans are tired of having to fork over their hard earned dollars to the government, so some bleeding heard liberals politician can fork it over to the less fortunate.
sayanything-4625

Dino, do you read your own bilge? You are the one that said, “Fuck old people if they vote Republican!” You’re the one that wants to put people into camps. You’re one that wants to destroy the country. I challenge you to find one thing that I have said that’s 1/8 as vile as your mouth on a daily basis. The fact that you lecture anyone on compassion is so hypocritical that it defies reason. I would have to an electron microscope to find a grain of compassion in your heart. You pretend to be compassionate but its just a ruse. You are the consummate snake oil sales man. You are willing to say things that sound civilized, until you realize no one is buying your bilge then its stem, shit stain, third world hell hole and “Fuck old people if they vote Republican.” You are an evil, evil “man”. You are also the exact reason why people don’t want government health care. I can see you Dims rationing it based on voting history or contributions to the party.
Tim

She paid for insurance in Canada and they failed her. If that happened here the insurance company would get sued and she’d eventually prevail.

If she didn’t die first Whistler! Then the insurance company prevails.

The idiots can’t comprehend that.

Exactly what is it the idiots don’t understand?
sayanything-4625

Carrick: Your link to the survey is flawed by the question it asks. What do you think the outcome would be if the question was “would you prefer private health-insurance that will end up three time more expensive?”

Answer that one, genius.

As long as they finished the question with while being three times more expensive it will be 100% more effective and allow you to see the doctor when you want not on the schedule of the government. Actually, I wouldn’t mind, as long as people like Dino and you don’t complain when I come in the doctors office and go straight to the head of the line because I am paying three times the expense. The funny thing is, you wouldn’t. You would screech on about how it wasn’t “fair” and how I was incompassionate and selfish because I paid three times the cost you did to guarantee I could see the doctor. That’s why most health care systems ban private practice and insurance. Its not “fair” and will lead to a two tiered system. So as a result, everyone gets a crappy, fair system.
Tim

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

And that just goes to show you how big a divide there is between the haves and the have nots in this country.

Better start building up your arsenal Whistler!
sayanything-4625

So compassionate was the American system she has to pay back the $100,000.

So compassionate was the Canadian system that she couldn’t get treatment.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

So compassionate was the American system she has to pay back the $100,000. If she lived here there would be a 1 in 6 chance she’s have no health coverage at all. If she did, the MBA who ran her plan would decide if she got an MRI and treatment.

Yet she lives to be able to pay it back. Better to have debt and live than to die free and clear.

For all the talk about the evils of the American system, it kept this woman alive.

Not that Dino cares. She was probably old. Or Republican. Or whatever. Evil little STD (h/t PP).
sayanything-4625

Mr. Compassion comes out to play again. In Dino’s world if you die waiting for treatment, thems the breaks! At least you had access to health care. That’s exactly why I don’t want government health care, idiots like Dino will be in charge. They won’t care if you live or die. They will guarantee access to health care. They don’t say shit about whether or not you’ll get treated once you get access.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Of course she was a republican. She thinks she deserves to be served first no matter what.

Don’t forget that her story is simply her story. Unless she’s a doctor she doesn’t have a clue how her case would have developed.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Exactly what is it the idiots don’t understand?

I see you didn’t understand a couple of things.

First of all you don’t understand that the threat of lawsuit keeps the insurance companies fulfilling their contractual obligations nearly all the time.

Second you didn’t realize that this person would be in no worse shape in the unlikely event she had to fight with her insurer.

You also failed to understand that a person dying doesn’t remove the chance of getting sued by the person’s survivors or maybe even the medical provider that has no other way of collecting what they are owed.

And that just goes to show you how big a divide there is between the haves and the have nots in this country.

No, it shows Obama and the Democrats to be massive liars when they claim that “the rich” aren’t paying their share. They’re paying their share plus the share of a lot of other peoples’.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

You stems would step over a sick person dying in the street rather than assist them. You’d shit on your excess food rather than share it. Ironic that you’d be lecturing anyone on compassion.
sayanything-4625

You mean when Greg bragged about his free enterprise state of geniuses who get to make the space telescope and I reminded him of the trillions in federal tax dollars, way more than they paid in, that his state receives to build said telescope? Oh yeah, that.

Then I countered that all people have to pay to for services they order? If you want a mirror for a space telescope you look around, find the best contractor and pay them? Some how to Dino working and building things for the government is welfare! Remind me again, how should government get the space telescope built Dino? Require mandatory service for free like the Pharohs and the pyramids? For all that didn’t read the thread libs like to add all wages and expenditures for the military, NASA and wages for those serving together to all the other Federal spending then say look Alabama over there receives $1.30 in tax money, more than they send in! Oregon only receives $.80! Hypocrites! Ignoring the fact that Alabama routinely has more people signing up to be in the military than Oregon so it would follow that they would receive more pay. Ignoring the fact that even the government has to pay people when they work.

Nothing really eats at me about politics. I am so delighted to have been vindicated by the failures of conservatism and get to witness the people getting what they deserve for voting republican,

Yeah, that’s why you spent most of Friday getting increasingly nasty and disparaging the state of Alabama because nothing eats at you! That’s why you go from stem, to shit stain, to Alabama’s a third world hell hole to “Fuck the elderly if they vote Republican!” because you are so even tempered. Go sell crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here after your ranting.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

You stems would step over a sick person dying in the street rather than assist them. You’d shit on your excess food rather than share it. Ironic that you’d be lecturing anyone on compassion.

YOU’RE the one who says old people don’t deserve health care. YOU’RE the one who says fuck em to the poor.

And it was DEMS who destroyed food during the Great Depression.

Fact fail.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

She paid for insurance in Canada and they failed her. If that happened here the insurance company would get sued and she’d eventually prevail.

The idiots can’t comprehend that.
Tim

What morons like you don’t understand Whistler, if the threat of a law suit was such a deterrent for the health insurance companies in the US, the health insurance companies, wouldn’t deny and delay coverage so much, and hire many employees to discover new and innovative ways to avoid paying for the services they contracted to pay for.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

the health insurance companies in the US, the health insurance companies, wouldn’t deny and delay coverage so much, and hire many employees to discover new and innovative ways to avoid paying for the services they contracted to pay for.

What the idiots don’t understand is that there is recourse in a private system and that we aren’t rife with examples.

I’m sure you can find a few people making accusations and even a few less where they actually proved the insurance company wrong. However it’s better to not have the judge getting a paycheck from the same place as the guy that denied you coverage.
RJ Richards

Greg,

Dino offers nothing. Name calling, swearing, crazy comments…typical.

I would make a thousand dollar bet that if we were all in person he would be as quiet as a school mouse. He’s only brave in the basement picking his nose and waiting for mommy to call him to dinner.

You schooled him the other day and I’ll bet you anything that ate him up all night long. He can’t hang with you or Goon and it drives him crazy.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

Let’s repeat this filth too:

Of course she was a republican. She thinks she deserves to be served first no matter what.

Because the woman believes she deserves to live she’s OBVIOUSLY evil. This is the “compassion” we don’t have? That she doesn’t want to wait til she’s untreatable she deserves condemnation?

Which is worse? That she could get the care she needed, but it puts her in debt? Or that, had she waited for free, the Canadians admit freely that, best case scenerio, she’d have waited so long she’d be blind?

Demanding this care for everyone isn’t compassionate…it’s pure evil.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

You schooled him the other day and I’ll bet you anything that ate him up all night long.

You mean when Greg bragged about his free enterprise state of geniuses who get to make the space telescope and I reminded him of the trillions in federal tax dollars, way more than they paid in, that his state receives to build said telescope? Oh yeah, that.

Nothing really eats at me about politics. I am so delighted to have been vindicated by the failures of conservatism and get to witness the people getting what they deserve for voting republican, I’m still high on it. $14 trillion in household wealth GONE. Retirements postponed. Luxury homes in foreclosure, builders bankrupt. Sorry, but we warned you and no one listened. You thought you could have it all and now you suffer the consequences of supporting the greed-based cultural cesspool created by conservatism. Do enjoy!

—–

The woman’s story is her high drama. She probably would have been fine had she waited.

I’m still waiting for a study, a list, a statistic, ANYTHING giving data on the hordes of Canadians coming her for health care. Surely she’s not the only one? As of yet I’ve seen nothing.
Rezistik

Doesn’t include the amount of people who won’t be receiving it at all does it?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

I am so delighted to have been vindicated by the failures of conservatism… — Dino

Unfortunately conservatives don’t see it as a failure of conservatism, but that it hasn’t gone far enough. Deeply irrational? Of course.

The first first-world country to inflict free-market, limited-govt, conservative ideology upon itself, New Zealand, suffered a 10-year recession. Wages took a hammering and fell far behind Australia, which at the time was a similar economy and was still social-democrat. (And then a few years later Australia self-inflicted many of the same “reforms”!)

But the wealthy got wealthier, and they engorged themselves on national assets at fire-sale prices (cronyism). This is seen as success for conservatives though, they successfully transferred worker and public wealth into their own pockets.

The US still hasn’t gone very far adopting free-market policies though, there are still massive state-funded subsidies on food and r&d, trade protectionism, …

Yet NZ didn’t scrap it’s publicly funded health-care system because it is popular, despite its waiting lists and other faults (due to underfunding thanks to conservative policies), and far cheaper than the US system.
docdave

Rob, you need to show a chart showing the waiting time for critical surgery which is what a person with brain cancer needs. I believe that a chart like that would show that the waiting time for emergency surgery in the United States is nil. If your condition is life threatening, care is immediate. That certainly was my experience.
RJ Richards

Bottom line Dino, Greg played you like a fiddle. You just can’t hang with him or Goon. You’re not in their league.

Keep the anti conservative talk going, it’s not believable anymore. The lefties are in charge now, you got your wish. Now we can sit back and keep score.
Rezistik

I was talking about the graph at the beginning of the article/front page
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

Docdave, waits for critical surgery are typically zero for universal health care systems. That’s why Rob doesn’t show the graph.
Tim

What the idiots don’t understand is that there is recourse in a private system and that we aren’t rife with examples.

Just because there is a recourse doesn’t mean everyone has the ability to pursue such recourse, and that’s what the health insurance count on, even expect.

Any possible loss is far exceeded by the benefit. Like I said before, if that weren’t the case insurance companies wouldn’t hire entire departments dedicated solely to finding innovative ways to deny and delay payment for coverage they have contracted to pay for.

Plus it doesn’t do the victim much good even if the family does get some restitution. And it certainly doesn’t help the numerous other families who didn’t have the ability to pursue such recourse.
pparets

Angry vert claims…

waits for critical surgery are typically zero for universal health care systems. That’s why Rob doesn’t show the graph.

Having lived with state-run health care in the UK and Italy, I don’t mind saying that you are full of crap, AV.
pparets

mea culpa: “… since it too is due…”
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

pparets, in medical terminology, “critical” means that the patient has a high chance of death in the very near future without intervention?

Can’t really put them on waiting lists can you (unless the wait is only a few hours, like for the surgeon to finish a round of golf)?

I’m calling your bluff PP, from what I’ve read, the only serious (but that doesn’t mean critical) condition which has waiting lists in the UK is heart surgery. Surgeons prioritize surgery depending upon the symptoms. And the number of deaths while on the waiting lists are less than the number of deaths due to the surgery.

There are 50 million Brits, if you’re correct then there would be ample stats (deaths) to back up your point.

P.S. A whole-foods, plant-based diet can reverse the symptoms of Coronary Heart Disease (CHD). Numerous studies back this up. So many of the deaths of those on the waiting list are preventable. CHD deaths are overwhelming due to poor lifestyle choices.
pparets

I am well and personally aware of what ‘critical’ means in medical terminology, Vert.

You don’t get it, do you?

In Italy, no matter how ‘critical’ your illness is, there is a waiting list for scattered MRI and CAT-Scan diagnostics, hospital beds and surgeons skilled in heart, cancer and brain surgery.

Similar conditions exist in large areas of the UK and a strictly regulated list of ‘approved’ drugs ties the hands of doctors in treating illnesses. Trust me, I know.

So many of the deaths of those on the waiting list are preventable. CHD deaths are overwhelming due to poor lifestyle choices.

How revealing, Vert – although with one breath you deny that there are waiting lists for critical cardio-vascular treatment, and with the next you affirm their existence.

BTW… I’m assuming you would regard AIDS as non-critical, since it too is do to “poor lifestyle choices”. Yes?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

pparets, you seem to be having reading comprehension difficulties. In the UK, the surgeon diagnosing the patient decides upon the level of severity in order to prioritize treatment. Critical patients are treated immediately, then the serious, then the less-serious, and so on. There is also an upper limit on how long one can wait too.

The UK system is severely underfunded, about 1/3 of the expenditure per person of the US. But in the US, a person without medical insurance or money will get no surgery until it is so serious they are admitted to an ER, let alone preventative treatment, but they will in the UK. (But there can be waits.)

If the 50 million uninsured in the US could receive the same coverage that the 50 million in the UK get, don’t you think it’d be an improvement?

Canada, as does NZ+Aus, has a mixed public+private system. So if one wants to upgrade their medical coverage, they can.

Everyone gets treatment, some get better treatment. That’s an improvement over the current system (price and performance) is it not?
pparets

Vert… you can read all the tripe you want and believe it if you choose. But when you have spent enough time in the UK or Italy to experience state-run ‘critical’ care, then you will have first-hand knowledge.

Further discussion of this matter seems pointless, don’t you agree?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

I have limited knowledge of the British system, but my sister suffered from a brain aneurysm (extremely critical, death can be expected in minutes) in New Zealand (another underfunded system). Surgery was competent and immediate, and all stuff related to follow-up was too.

But from all accounts, the British are mostly happy with their system, but the issues it has they blame Thatcher (a conservative funnily enough) for cannibalizing it. The concern is the underfunding, not that there are systemic issues.

Most people not from the US are appalled by the costs and systemic failings of the US system though. It is only blind-nationalism which makes conservatives defend the status quo. Evidence doesn’t support your case.

And yes, further discussion probably is pointless, discussing with blind-nationalists is probably wasted effort.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

Docdave, waits for critical surgery are typically zero for universal health care systems. That’s why Rob doesn’t show the graph.

One only has to look at the US VA hospitals to prove this wrong.

My father was suspected of brain cancer and told to wait til July (it was suspected in December) for an MRI. He died in April.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

The UK system is severely underfunded, about 1/3 of the expenditure per person of the US. But in the US, a person without medical insurance or money will get no surgery until it is so serious they are admitted to an ER, let alone preventative treatment, but they will in the UK. (But there can be waits.)

This is a blatant lie. Anyone who signs a statement that they will pay will get treatment in the US.
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

Kenny, you shoot yourself in the foot yet again with the comment “anyone who signs a statement that they will pay will get treatment in the US.”

As I previously commented that someone unable to pay will therefore miss out on preventative or non-emergency treatment. (Signing to indicate that you will pay when you know you won’t is fraud.)

I reckon you’re too cowardly to apologize for accusing me of being a liar, care to prove me wrong, douche-bag?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

Carrick: Your link to the survey is flawed by the question it asks. What do you think the outcome would be if the question was “would you prefer private health-insurance that will end up three time more expensive?”

Answer that one, genius.

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