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1337741 Responseshttp://sayanythingblog.com/entry/the_difference_between_palestinians_and_israelis/The+Difference+Between+Palestinians+And+Israelis2007-01-21+21%3A01%3A00 to “The Difference Between Palestinians And Israelis”
Sore spot? More like you hit a level of absurdity and stupidity that was graciously corrected for your sake.
“Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit”
ellinas on January 22nd, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states.
Like I said before: We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte. The link you provided is fraught with grammatical errors,even thoough it is from the Minnessota state university.It appears to be hastily been put up by someone to prove a point. I am shocked that a meticoulous person like you would post something trashy like that.
ellinas on January 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 am
My village is on the same spot since prehistoric times. Google Assiros. Our dances are circular just like the ancient dances.Our language is the modern equivalent of the ancient Greek language. We enjoy life like the ancients. Now comes a barbarian like you trying to strip away my Greekness.
Well if I am not descended solely from Greeks neither are the Israelis/Hebrews/Jews descended from the ancient Hebrews/Jews. Therefore they should stop their apartheid on their Semitic brethren.
robert108 on January 22nd, 2007 at 4:25 am
The “Indians” invaded America. The Aztecs invade Mexico. Human history is the history of invasion. Where do we start? All of the present population of England is descended from invaders; the aboriginal population was completely wiped out. Most of Europe is full of descendants of invaders. The modern day Greeks and Italians are descendants of the barbarians who invaded ancient Greece and Rome. Almost every country in the world is full of invaders.
does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it?
Actually, you’re speaking about one particular group of fascists. This is the equivalent of saying that “If all computers don’t have a little apple on it, they’re not really computers!”
Yes, all the Nazis were fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.
Robert108, That is what I mean. Is it just a sheild? Hmm…
robert108 on January 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 am
My village is on the same spot since prehistoric times. Google Assiros.Same village, different people. Our dances are circular just like the ancient dances.Same dances, different people.Our language is the modern equivalent of the ancient Greek language.After the invaders changed it. We enjoy life like the ancients. Now comes a barbarian like you trying to strip away my Greekness.Name-calling; how cultured. Well if I am not descended solely from Greeks neither are the Israelis/Hebrews/Jews descended from the ancient Hebrews/Jews. As I said, almost every country in the world has been invaded at one time or the other, some many times. I’m sorry you are unable to deal with that fact. Therefore they should stop their apartheid on their Semitic brethren. It is the so-called “Palestinians” who practice apartheid, along with strapping bombs on children. Stop your lying, please! Your hatred continues to make you stupid.
ellinas on January 22nd, 2007 at 5:31 am
May I remind you that the Roman Empire split into four autonomous regions and then it was consolidated into two? The eastern part The Byzantine empire was decidedly Greekand that is where the modern greeks come from. Besides it is not the Greeks that practiced appartheid and slavery until recently. It was the descendants of the real barbarians in Africa and USA.
Remember Robert? We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.
gavin brown on January 21st, 2007 at 4:17 pm
you dont have to be that well educated to know what is happening in the middle east is wrong.
Israel was fromed by outside governments with no consideration for the people who lived there only through the use of force will it continue. what a story book sayes gives them no right to palestine. if you think they do then the rest of the world should support american indians in killing non-american indians after all it is their country which was invaded and only 500yrs ago
gavin brown on January 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pm
so this discussion has degenerated into irelevant mud slinging I think my opinion has proved itself the cartoon is a load of onesided rubbish
Bat One on January 21st, 2007 at 12:31 pm
(Any of you people have an english (sic) dictionary or does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. (F)ascists dont (sic) like unions, commies, gypsyies (sic), black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups
Hey, Gavin,
Would you be good enough to point out specifically which dictionary defines the word “Fascist” in the terms you describe? Most authoritative definitions that I’ve ever seen, start out with a direct reference to the German Nazi, or National Socialist, party of WWII fame.
Yours is obviously a pretty pathetic position from which to be calling on others to use authoritative reference sources.
…as for terrorists I will remind you again murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, all these have been commited (sic) against civilians in forigen (sic) countries by your government.
Why, Jimmy! I didn’t recognize you at first. How’s Rosalyn and those two ugly kids of yours?
The Islamofascists are hiding behind their women and children.
I on the other hand am hiding behind our army, marines, navy and air force.
I feel pretty good about that.
robert108 on January 21st, 2007 at 1:35 pm
hezbollah didnt fire rockets until scum started killing people.
Even if that were true(and it isn’t), haven’t you ever heard the saying, “two wrongs don’t make a right”? Ever hear of the suicide bombers in Israel, targeting civilians?
robert108 on January 21st, 2007 at 2:17 pm
zz: They are also the real fascists.(favored groups, govt control of business, etc.)
Bat One on January 21st, 2007 at 3:43 pm
the Israeli army attacked the lebs 2 days after the soldiers went missing. I find it hard to believe that they couldnt react instantly to get them back with a precision military operation instead of blitz krieg.
Gavin,
So, you are castigating the Israelis for showing restraint by not reacting immediately militarily, and for taking two days to try and negotiate the return of their soldiers?
Your arguments make no more sense than does the convoluted and illiterate manner in which you present them.
Why do the radical way off the spectrum liberals try to pin the NAZI names on Republicans? Is it to shield themselves from being called those names??? After all they are the Jew haters.
It’s called “projection”, Zsa Zsa. The Left routinely project their own faults upon their opponents.
The Islamofascists are hiding behind their women and children.
…and they’re out of uniform. The Israeli soldier stands identifiably as a military man. The terrorist in tennis shoes hides behind women and children and tries to hide as a civilian as well.
I always bristled when I heard comments after 9/11 that the terrorists were “brave” because they were willing to “die for their cause”. I thought it was (and is) the height of cowardice to attack civilians. They did not (and do not) possess the courage to stand as men in uniform and attack the trained fighting forces of the country they oppose.
I always bristled when I heard comments after 9/11 that the terrorists were “brave” because they were willing to “die for their cause”
Fanatical-yes, brave-not even close.
HG on January 21st, 2007 at 3:05 pm
fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it?
gavin brown spreads his dysfunction, any of you people have an english dictionary or does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it?
No, that doesn’t sound like any of us, but thanks for playing!
arabs will and have lived with jews for thousands of years
And how are they doing? Hell,..how are the Arabs themselves doing? Not too good.
these murdering nutter israeli’s(very few world leaders condemned their murder spree in lebanon)
I’m not going to let this fantasy stand. The Israelis specifically targeted Hezbollah strongholds and infrastructure using high tech weapons designed to minimize surrounding damage. Hezbollah, on the other hand, aimed for civilian centers using rudimentary Katyusha rockets filled with ball bearings designed to injure as many innocents as possible.
Instead of addressing that reality, you invent your own.
[Israelis] cant exist without a gun or support from the great satan and other countries less they become a minority and have to live under arab law.
Which is a good thing, lest the “nutter israeli’s” be subjected to the condemning “arab law”.
as for terrorists I will remind you again murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, all these have been commited against civilians in forigen countries by your government.
The difference between us and you is that we punish that behavior. You reward it. Not only do you reward it, but you revel in it.
You got everything wrong gavin brown. And you’re angry about it because you know that something isn’t right. Pointing out that the Palestinians use their women and children as shields really got you upset, didn’t it? You can’t defend it, so instead of addressing it, you go on the attack.
Why do the radical way off the spectrum liberals try to pin the NAZI names on Republicans? Is it to sheild themselves from being called those names??? After all they are the Jew haters.
robert108 on January 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Bat: Lefties just love that “everybody does it/you do it too” crap, don’t they?
HG on January 21st, 2007 at 3:21 pm
so this discussion has degenerated into irelevant mud slinging I think my opinion has proved itself the cartoon is a load of onesided rubbish
Gavin,
The only thing your opinion has proved to be is comical. Ironic isn’t it.
gavin brown on January 21st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
haha what a reaction hit a sore spot did I
Hezbollah, on the other hand, aimed for civilian centers using rudimentary Katyusha rockets filled with ball bearings designed to injure as many innocents as possible.
hezbollah didnt fire rockets until scum started killing people. the Israeli army attacked the lebs 2 days after the soldiers went missing. I find it hard to believe that they couldnt react instantly to get them back with a precision military operation instead of blitz krieg. the arabs dont have anywhere else to run they have to go about thier lives and fight aggression on the home front. a lot of Israeli’s can go back to where they came from. that is reality. you just dont like it when someone can see what rubbish and onesided the cartoon is.
gavin brown on January 21st, 2007 at 11:39 am
any of you people have an english dictionary or does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it? the arabs will and have lived with jews for thousands of years but these murdering nutter israeli’s(very few world leaders condemned their murder spree in lebanon) cant exist without a gun or support from the great satan and other countries less they become a minority and have to live under arab law. as for terrorists I will remind you again murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, all these have been commited against civilians in forigen countries by your government.
you dont have to be that well educated to know what is happening in the middle east is wrong. gavin brown on January 22, 2007 at 01:17 am
The voice of experience (the incongruity here is priceless)…Do you understand the implication of what you just wrote?
HG on January 22nd, 2007 at 4:15 am
only through the use of force will it continue.
Gavin,
This is the plight of every nation which ever existed, exists, or will exist.
if you think they do then the rest of the world should support american indians in killing non-american indians after all it is their country which was invaded and only 500yrs ago
So wait, since the Israli’s weren’t there first, they have not right to be. But, since the Indians were in America first, they have no right to be? Was there a storybook that gave Indians the right to America? I’m sure you just failed to say what you meant to say. Try it again.
Whistler. We now have evidence that some of the “brave” suicide murderers have been kidnapped hostages and their families threatened if they don’t blow themselves up. Notice that Sadam and UBL don’t blow themselves up. Just like the proletariat in communist countries. They don’t sacrafice and work for “slave wages”!
Pilgrim on January 21st, 2007 at 12:07 am
Good job, lik. In this casea picture is indeed worth a thousand words.
robert108 on January 23rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm
ellinas: Yet another personal attack from you(sigh):
Robert 108, we (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.Only in your fantasies.
When you say something stupid like:”So, the Romans are one of the Graecian clans? I don’t think so” That was sarcasm, to emphasize your denial of the Roman invasion, which is what I said in the first place, and you denied.
do not complain about being attacked. Any person with an iota of knowledge concerning ancient history would have known what I was talking about when I said: “Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states.” I was talking about the four major clans the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians, and Achaeans.I never claimed that the Romans are one of the Graecian clans. So noted; you missed the sarcasm, which isn’t to your credit.
But you did not know that because you are deficient in ancient history. You hastily linked me to a web site, supposedly put up by a university,to prove that you are versed in history.No, it was to prove that Greece has been invaded many times, which was what I said in the first place. Are you really that dense? Baloney. Cut your crap. Sometimes I think that you are a teenager because you say childish things. Your entire approach to me is childish. I simply stated that Greece has been invaded, which it has, and so you went into a hissyfit about my “taking away your Greekness”, which only demonstrates your profound stupidity. I know you are probably a fairly intelligent person when you are not emotionally triggered, but your hate makes you stupid.
If you continue to be devoid of factual replies, don’t expect any more dialogue from me; I find your ad hominem approach extremely boring. I don’t care about your feelings, just cogent thoughts, when you have some.
robert108 on January 22nd, 2007 at 5:04 am
ellinas: I have not denied you your “Greekness”, so calm down. I simply stated historical facts. I don’t know why you don’t know your own heritage, but that’s your responsibility, not mine. No smear here, just the facts. Ever hear of the Gothic tribes? You might want to do some reading. Actually, the Romans invaded Ancient Greece, and the Goths invaded the entire Mediterranean region.
robert108 on January 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 am
ellinas: Are you maintaining that the present-day Greeks are the descended solely from the Ancient Greeks? My point was about invaders, and there have been plenty in the Mediterranean region throughout history. If you are ignorant of that fact, there is no hope for you. I am not responsible for what you have “established” in your own hate-addled mind.
ellinas on January 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 am
The modern day Greeks and Italians are descendants of the barbarians who invaded ancient Greece and Rome. Almost every country in the world is full of invaders.
robert108 on January 22, 2007 at 01:25 pm
How dare you deny me my Greekness.
We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte. Stop spreading lies. Any factual basis for your most recent smear? Any proof that the Greeks of today are not descendents of the Greeks of the old?
robert108 on January 22nd, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states. So, the Romans are one of the Graecian clans? I don’t think so. Like I said before: We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.The only thing you have “established” is your inability to admit when you are wrong. The link you provided is fraught
with grammatical errors,even thoough it is from the Minnessota state university. No factual errors, though. It appears to be hastily been put up by someone to prove a point. I am shocked that a meticoulous person like you would post something trashy like that. When you are proved wrong, you attack the grammar? Very weak. Google has numerous sources, but you would deny them all, in service of your wounded ego. How sad.
ellinas on January 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Robert 108, we (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.
When you say something stupid like:”So, the Romans are one of the Graecian clans? I don’t think so”
do not complain about being attacked. Any person with an iota of knowledge concerning ancient history would have known what I was talking about when I said: “Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states.” I was talking about the four major clans the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians, and Achaeans.I never claimed that the Romans are one of the Graecian clans.
But you did not know that because you are deficient in ancient history. You hastily linked me to a web site, supposedly put up by a university,to prove that you are versed in history. Baloney. Cut your crap. Sometimes I think that you are a teenager because you say childish things.
ellinas: Since you have questioned my knowledge of history, here are some facts, although this link just covers invasions of Greece BC.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/aegean/timeline.html
Gavin,
Sore spot? More like you hit a level of absurdity and stupidity that was graciously corrected for your sake.
“Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit”
Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states.
Like I said before: We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte. The link you provided is fraught with grammatical errors,even thoough it is from the Minnessota state university.It appears to be hastily been put up by someone to prove a point. I am shocked that a meticoulous person like you would post something trashy like that.
My village is on the same spot since prehistoric times. Google Assiros. Our dances are circular just like the ancient dances.Our language is the modern equivalent of the ancient Greek language. We enjoy life like the ancients.
Now comes a barbarian like you trying to strip away my Greekness.
Well if I am not descended solely from Greeks neither are the Israelis/Hebrews/Jews descended from the ancient Hebrews/Jews. Therefore they should stop their apartheid on their Semitic brethren.
The “Indians” invaded America. The Aztecs invade Mexico. Human history is the history of invasion. Where do we start? All of the present population of England is descended from invaders; the aboriginal population was completely wiped out. Most of Europe is full of descendants of invaders. The modern day Greeks and Italians are descendants of the barbarians who invaded ancient Greece and Rome. Almost every country in the world is full of invaders.
does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it?
Actually, you’re speaking about one particular group of fascists. This is the equivalent of saying that “If all computers don’t have a little apple on it, they’re not really computers!”
Yes, all the Nazis were fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.
Robert108, That is what I mean. Is it just a sheild? Hmm…
May I remind you that the Roman Empire split into four autonomous regions and then it was consolidated into two? The eastern part The Byzantine empire was decidedly Greekand that is where the modern greeks come from. Besides it is not the Greeks that practiced appartheid and slavery until recently. It was the descendants of the real barbarians in Africa and USA.
Remember Robert? We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.
you dont have to be that well educated to know what is happening in the middle east is wrong.
Israel was fromed by outside governments with no consideration for the people who lived there only through the use of force will it continue. what a story book sayes gives them no right to palestine. if you think they do then the rest of the world should support american indians in killing non-american indians after all it is their country which was invaded and only 500yrs ago
so this discussion has degenerated into irelevant mud slinging I think my opinion has proved itself the cartoon is a load of onesided rubbish
Hey, Gavin,
Would you be good enough to point out specifically which dictionary defines the word “Fascist” in the terms you describe? Most authoritative definitions that I’ve ever seen, start out with a direct reference to the German Nazi, or National Socialist, party of WWII fame.
Yours is obviously a pretty pathetic position from which to be calling on others to use authoritative reference sources.
Why, Jimmy! I didn’t recognize you at first. How’s Rosalyn and those two ugly kids of yours?
The Islamofascists are hiding behind their women and children.
I on the other hand am hiding behind our army, marines, navy and air force.
I feel pretty good about that.
Even if that were true(and it isn’t), haven’t you ever heard the saying, “two wrongs don’t make a right”? Ever hear of the suicide bombers in Israel, targeting civilians?
zz: They are also the real fascists.(favored groups, govt control of business, etc.)
Gavin,
So, you are castigating the Israelis for showing restraint by not reacting immediately militarily, and for taking two days to try and negotiate the return of their soldiers?
Your arguments make no more sense than does the convoluted and illiterate manner in which you present them.
It’s called “projection”, Zsa Zsa. The Left routinely project their own faults upon their opponents.
It is so opposite of what Republicans are about. The need to project and take a look at themselves. maybe get a mirror? Reflect.
…and they’re out of uniform. The Israeli soldier stands identifiably as a military man. The terrorist in tennis shoes hides behind women and children and tries to hide as a civilian as well.
I always bristled when I heard comments after 9/11 that the terrorists were “brave” because they were willing to “die for their cause”. I thought it was (and is) the height of cowardice to attack civilians. They did not (and do not) possess the courage to stand as men in uniform and attack the trained fighting forces of the country they oppose.
Fanatical-yes, brave-not even close.
Gavin,
Is this the one-sided mud-slinging you speak of?
Hey Gavin, time to renew your prescription, don’t you think?
Commenting without your ritalin is embarrasing.
gavin brown spreads his dysfunction, any of you people have an english dictionary or does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it?
No, that doesn’t sound like any of us, but thanks for playing!
arabs will and have lived with jews for thousands of years
And how are they doing? Hell,..how are the Arabs themselves doing? Not too good.
these murdering nutter israeli’s(very few world leaders condemned their murder spree in lebanon)
I’m not going to let this fantasy stand. The Israelis specifically targeted Hezbollah strongholds and infrastructure using high tech weapons designed to minimize surrounding damage. Hezbollah, on the other hand, aimed for civilian centers using rudimentary Katyusha rockets filled with ball bearings designed to injure as many innocents as possible.
Instead of addressing that reality, you invent your own.
[Israelis] cant exist without a gun or support from the great satan and other countries less they become a minority and have to live under arab law.
Which is a good thing, lest the “nutter israeli’s” be subjected to the condemning “arab law”.
as for terrorists I will remind you again murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, all these have been commited against civilians in forigen countries by your government.
The difference between us and you is that we punish that behavior. You reward it. Not only do you reward it, but you revel in it.
You got everything wrong gavin brown. And you’re angry about it because you know that something isn’t right. Pointing out that the Palestinians use their women and children as shields really got you upset, didn’t it? You can’t defend it, so instead of addressing it, you go on the attack.
Truer words were never spoken!
Why do the radical way off the spectrum liberals try to pin the NAZI names on Republicans? Is it to sheild themselves from being called those names??? After all they are the Jew haters.
Bat: Lefties just love that “everybody does it/you do it too” crap, don’t they?
Gavin,
The only thing your opinion has proved to be is comical. Ironic isn’t it.
haha what a reaction hit a sore spot did I
hezbollah didnt fire rockets until scum started killing people. the Israeli army attacked the lebs 2 days after the soldiers went missing. I find it hard to believe that they couldnt react instantly to get them back with a precision military operation instead of blitz krieg. the arabs dont have anywhere else to run they have to go about thier lives and fight aggression on the home front. a lot of Israeli’s can go back to where they came from. that is reality. you just dont like it when someone can see what rubbish and onesided the cartoon is.
any of you people have an english dictionary or does the US one have a different meaning for fascist. fascists dont like unions, commies, gypsyies, black people, gays, disabled people and all other minority groups, which sounds like yourselves doesnt it? the arabs will and have lived with jews for thousands of years but these murdering nutter israeli’s(very few world leaders condemned their murder spree in lebanon) cant exist without a gun or support from the great satan and other countries less they become a minority and have to live under arab law. as for terrorists I will remind you again murder, rape, torture, kidnapping, all these have been commited against civilians in forigen countries by your government.
Lik, that is so well said. AND without one word…
The voice of experience (the incongruity here is priceless)…Do you understand the implication of what you just wrote?
Gavin,
This is the plight of every nation which ever existed, exists, or will exist.
So wait, since the Israli’s weren’t there first, they have not right to be. But, since the Indians were in America first, they have no right to be? Was there a storybook that gave Indians the right to America? I’m sure you just failed to say what you meant to say. Try it again.
Whistler. We now have evidence that some of the “brave” suicide murderers have been kidnapped hostages and their families threatened if they don’t blow themselves up. Notice that Sadam and UBL don’t blow themselves up. Just like the proletariat in communist countries. They don’t sacrafice and work for “slave wages”!
Good job, lik. In this casea picture is indeed worth a thousand words.
ellinas: Yet another personal attack from you(sigh):
If you continue to be devoid of factual replies, don’t expect any more dialogue from me; I find your ad hominem approach extremely boring. I don’t care about your feelings, just cogent thoughts, when you have some.
ellinas: I have not denied you your “Greekness”, so calm down. I simply stated historical facts. I don’t know why you don’t know your own heritage, but that’s your responsibility, not mine. No smear here, just the facts. Ever hear of the Gothic tribes? You might want to do some reading. Actually, the Romans invaded Ancient Greece, and the Goths invaded the entire Mediterranean region.
ellinas: Are you maintaining that the present-day Greeks are the descended solely from the Ancient Greeks? My point was about invaders, and there have been plenty in the Mediterranean region throughout history. If you are ignorant of that fact, there is no hope for you. I am not responsible for what you have “established” in your own hate-addled mind.
The modern day Greeks and Italians are descendants of the barbarians who invaded ancient Greece and Rome. Almost every country in the world is full of invaders.
robert108 on January 22, 2007 at 01:25 pm
How dare you deny me my Greekness.
We (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte. Stop spreading lies. Any factual basis for your most recent smear? Any proof that the Greeks of today are not descendents of the Greeks of the old?
Robert 108, we (you and I) have established in the past that history and facts are not your forte.
When you say something stupid like:”So, the Romans are one of the Graecian clans? I don’t think so”
do not complain about being attacked. Any person with an iota of knowledge concerning ancient history would have known what I was talking about when I said: “Different Helenic (Graecian) clans desending into mainland Greece, and forming city states.” I was talking about the four major clans the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians, and Achaeans.I never claimed that the Romans are one of the Graecian clans.
But you did not know that because you are deficient in ancient history. You hastily linked me to a web site, supposedly put up by a university,to prove that you are versed in history. Baloney. Cut your crap. Sometimes I think that you are a teenager because you say childish things.
Still
I think this one begs the question:
What is the US soldier doing in the cartoon?