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Friday, December 22, 2006

The Appalling State Of Our Indian Reservations

Yesterday I had occasion to spend about 15 hours visiting people on the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation in northern North Dakota, and I’ve got to say that I was pretty shocked by what I saw.

I’ve spent a lot of time on North Dakota’s Indian reservations.  I’ve worked there, visited businesses and restaurants and driven throughout them.  I’ve even been up to a lot of people’s houses to deliver things or obtain information, so I’ve been aware of the poor conditions on the reservations for some time, but never before yesterday have I had the opportunity to have such an intimate look at life on the reservation.  I was not impressed with what I saw.

The first thing I noticed was that while I was going around neighborhoods and knocking on doors was that nearly everyone seemed to be at home.  Just about every knock received an answer.  In a non-reservation community when I go through residential neighborhoods during the day it’s hard to find people at home.  Everyone is out and busy.  Why isn’t it like this on the reservation?  Probably because in most of North Dakota the unemployment rate is around 3%, while on the Indian reservations it’s about 65%.

Which is a sad commentary in and of itself, but rampant unemployment aside the simple reality of the conditions these people are living in is even more amazing.  I saw kids playing outside, on a day when the temperature was just below freezing, in shorts and bare feet (though they were wearing parkas).  I met people living in homes with broken out windows and nothing but a piece of plywood or some plastic stretched over them to keep out the cold.  I saw homes with dozens of abandoned vehicles around them, and took in smells emitting from some of the doors that were opened to me that brought tears to my eyes.  Inside the homes I saw mountains of unwashed dishes, mounds of unwashed clothes, overflowing trash cans, walls literally dripping with nicotine from the constant smoking and throughout it all children playing in the reek.

And the people living in these homes were as disappointing as the homes themselves.  I met people who were drunk (or high or something) at noon, even as their children played in the road and on the twisted, sharp metal of abandoned cars.  I saw a visibly pregnant mother smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer.  I met a woman who was 29 years old and already a grandmother (to no fewer than three grandchildren) thanks to both her and her daughter’s young pregnancies.  I met men and women, fathers and mothers, who had spent more of their lives in prison then out of prison.  I met entire families whose only source of income seemed to be from stealing or selling drugs plus whatever they got from the government in terms of assistance.

I have heard tales from the notorious slums in places like Los Angeles and New York, but I’m not sure those slums can beat North Dakota’s Indian reservations in terms of pure filth and abhorrent living conditions.

So how is this happening in North Dakota?  A state that is thriving economically right now?  A state where the unemployment rate is so low that employers are practically screaming for workers?  I know why it’s happening, but not a lot of people are going to want to hear it.

It’s happening because of the total failure of the idea embraced by some that the government exists to take care of us.  The government has been taking care of North Dakota’s Indians, but it’s harming them more than it’s helping.

I know, I know.  The Indians have gotten a raw deal in this country’s history, but “history” is exactly what that is.  We’re in a new era now.  Our government spends billions of dollars on creating education and employment opportunities for Indians, not to mention the billions spent on personal assistance for the Indians themselves in the form of housing money, food money, welfare money, etc.  But none of this is working.  Most of the Indians on these reservations eat up all of that assistance and still don’t manage to lift themselves out of the ghettos they’re living in.  Why?  I think it’s because they live without consequences.

Most of us would probably consider living in a squalid apartment in a nasty housing complex a pretty serious consequence for not getting ahead in life, but it seems to me as though most of these Indians are perfectly content to live there.  Probably because they don’t know any better.  They were likely raised in housing projects by their parents, who in turn were probably raised in housing projects themselves.  The “welfare mentality” has become so ingrained in these people that most of them don’t have any drive to reach for something better.  It’s not that they’re incapable of education and holding down a steady job, it’s just that they don’t have to do those things to eek by in life.  Like their parents before them, they leave selfish lives full of self-gratification and little achievement while the government subsidizes them.

We can give these people all the opportunities in the world, but it isn’t going to make a lick of difference until there are some real consequences for cashing in on those opportunities.  The safety net needs to be taken out from under the Indians.  The reservation system needs to end.  The cradle-to-grave entitlements need to end.  The time of tough love needs to begin.  Because that’s the only way things are going to get better on these reservations.

Our government has tried to take care of the Indians for decades now, and all it has resulted in is rampant crime, rampant unemployment, rampant substance abuse and poverty.  It is cruel to perpetuate the current system simply because the idea of removing assistance from these people seems cruel.  What is cruel is putting them in a situation where there is no impetus to succeed.  Now is the time to shift the responsibility for making it in the world to the Indians themselves.  Not only to help them, but also to end the mean charade of the status quo.

Comments

Avatar for Digger

But what about the casinos? Those are supposed to solve all their problems!

Digger on December 22, 2006 at 08:05 am
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The reservation I was on has had a casino for about a decade now.  If there’s any revenue from that making its way to the rank-and-file tribe members it sure isn’t evident.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 22, 2006 at 08:09 am

I spend a bit of time on a reservation.  There are a lot of honkies working at this casino even though there seems to be plenty of unemployed tribe members within five miles of their facility.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 22, 2006 at 08:38 am
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It is hell what occupation and genocide can do to people

Graeme on December 22, 2006 at 09:36 am

Hey bonehead, this was the opposite of what normally happened during those times. 

Conquered people were given no status and left to make it or not.

In this case the government at the time gave the indians plenty of land (at least in Acreage) and which would have allowed them to do pretty well.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 22, 2006 at 09:44 am
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If the government would have stood by their treaties and not moved Indians from place to place and forced them into re-education camps (some of which were in ND) it might be a different story. The same thing is true in Canada, Australia and other parts of the world. Read up on the Indian wars. It wasn’t that long ago, this country is still in its infancy compared to most of the world.

In Latin America we are seeing a rise of the indigenous people’s political power and we should encourage Native Americans to look to the south and pattern similar movements.

I agree they need better leadership (as do we) and I agree government is the problem, but I don’t believe I hold the authority to tell them to forget and forgive. A trip to an Indian reservation is a pertinent reminder of the horrors of imperalism.

Graeme on December 22, 2006 at 09:59 am
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Also, the Indian reservations I have seen aren’t a whole lot different than some mainly white deep south trailer parks.

Graeme on December 22, 2006 at 10:02 am

Graeme said:

If the government would have stood by their treaties and not moved Indians from place to place and forced them into re-education camps

Just as a thought (an odd concept for liberals, but try it) just what do you think would have happened if the Indians had won? “Re-education camps or reservations where we would live by our own law?

No...it would have been slaughter and slavery as their own history could attest.

If Mexico had won do you think there would be this outcry for the poor Americanos? No. Spanish would be the language from South America to Canada.

In those days he who had the bigger hammer won. Everywhere. Get over it.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on December 22, 2006 at 10:06 am

Graeme it’s fruitless to worry about what some long dead people did to other long dead people.  It’s also fruitless to judge those people by the standards of today.

By the standards of the day the US government at the time treated indians better than other conquered people.  Furthermore they treated indians better than they treated eachother.

I would judge your red-neck trailer park comment means that deep in your heart you realize that the problems are the fault of bad government programs rather than racism or things that happened in history.

Have a Merry Christmas Graeme.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 22, 2006 at 10:07 am
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The Indians weren’t fighting to “win,” they were fighting to survive. There was plenty of land to go around.

Merry Christmas to you as well

Graeme on December 22, 2006 at 10:19 am

The Indians weren’t fighting to “win,” they were fighting to survive.

Very good point, Graeme!  If we don’t fight to win in Iraq and against terrorism, we will enjoy the same fate as the American Indians.


Leftie political philosophy, from a DU commenter:

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH. The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet: Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

robert108 on December 22, 2006 at 10:25 am

There was plenty of land to go around.

And the indians got as much land per person as the settlers.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 22, 2006 at 11:01 am

Graeme--Looked up your blog.  Mostly socialist and democrat.  But to your post--What has happened on Indian Reservations has been grafted to the officials operating them.  One of the first movies I saw that exposed this was HUD starring Paul Newman.  But, the Democrats have made it their legacy to create victims and clients.  They make people dependent upon the big federal government to solve all their problems.  This stiffles creativity and any motivation to work.  Have you ever visited the two large casinos in Connecticut?


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on December 22, 2006 at 11:26 am

What really needs to stop on Indian reservations is the corruption that the tribal leaders engage in.  I have seen many tribal leaders awash in money while the rest of the tribe is struggling to make ends meet.

On my wife’s reservation, the President of a college embezzled more than $5 Million from the school’s budget.  He got a 2-year sentence and the school was closed.  What he purchased with that embezzled money he kept.

bak72 on December 22, 2006 at 11:34 am

bak72-- It souns like you know how to tell The Truth.  Power and money corrupt some people.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on December 22, 2006 at 11:48 am

Graeme said, It is hell what occupation and genocide can do to people

Then stop doing it! After all, it is your “Great Society”.

I agree they need better leadership (as do we) and I agree government is the problem, but I don’t believe I hold the authority to tell them to forget and forgive.

Then let them wallow in their own filth. The question is why you believe you have the authority to confiscate a productive citizen’s money so that the Indians can wallow in their filth. You have a double standard you need to work out.

A trip to an Indian reservation is a pertinent reminder of the horrors of imperalism.

The imperialism here is your “New Deal” and “Great Society” programs. In the ND Indian reservation ghettos: more than half are unemployed, gangs are rampant, dropping out of high school is the norm, and welfare is a given.

You’re helping to destroy people. Take a bow Graeme.

likwidshoe on December 22, 2006 at 01:27 pm
Avatar for Mickey

We used to have the same situation with the local tribes in NE Wisconsin.

The N.D. tribes need to come visit the Oneida tribe here in Green Bay and get some advice. In the past 20 years this tribe has pulled itself out of poverty and become the second largest employer in the region. They generate billions of dollars anually from the casino and related enterprises. There is a new pride in the Oneida Nation that has never been before.

I think we have 14 different tribal casinos in the state and to be honest I have no idea how well the others are doing but I suspect they are all making big ching. It just takes a plan , good management and lots of blue hairs to blow their retirement on the slots and bingo.

The white man took the land away and the red man is buying it back, one quarter at a time.

Mickey on December 24, 2006 at 06:33 pm
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My only problem with the legalized gambling on reservations is this: If they’re sovereign enough to write their own laws respecting gambling, why can’t the be sovereign enough to provide their own schools and roads, etc?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 26, 2006 at 05:53 am

My problem with indian gambling is that since it’s legal for some US citizens to operate gambling halls it should be legal for others to do so.

Not that I want gambling anywhere except for Vegas BABY, but who are we fooling?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 26, 2006 at 06:27 am
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You have a lot of nerve! I built 2 houses in which I paid for without any assistance from any bank or programs and I make $12 an hour. I am 37 yrs old and have one 17 yr old son. I am not a grandmother or never been to jail. I hate drugs and feel sorry for those who use. My house is very clean and stay home a lot because there’s always something to do. I live on the TM rez. My families have built or purchased their own homes and live as I do. When you were knocking on doors and looking at those houses, you probably should looked a little harder because there is a lot of people with beautiful homes and who EVEN have jobs and I am pretty sure the le savage cleans on an occasion. I feel sorry for you if that’s all you have to see when you come home, your pretty bitter about something maybe your backyard needs a little cleaning. You know you sound familiar I betchya you were one of the scouts that lead Yellow Hair to the enemy!

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 07:39 am
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Faith, my intention was never to imply that all residents of the Indian reservations live in the manner observed, but quite a few of them do.  And that’s a big, big problem.

You clearly live on the reservation.  You know I’m not exaggerating what I saw.  You do have a point that not everybody up there lives that way, but enough do to make it so that we have to change things.

Can you at least agree to that much?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 24, 2007 at 08:10 am
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Well of course I can agree to that but you go anywhere, in any country, you are going to see that. Holy crap when you post something put the whole story not just the bad. I’m sure these people commenting on this must think were all drug addicted, lazy, poor, living in crappy houses, on welfare, alcohlics, with fetal syndrome kids with frozen feet. As it is we’re stereotyped enough without one of our own adding to it. And why do you have to blame welfare? We need help so be it everyone comes to that at a time in life just some take advantage of it or don’t have the capabilities to move on. You know for yourself we are not the only ones that get welfare or housing? Why didn’t you post something about the trailer parks or the slums or try the richer side of town I hear their drugs cost a little more but they even have problems. And don’t single people because of their nationality holy cripe you’ll give the skin heads and lord knows who else other great reasons to hate. You know all the races, yellow, black, white, red they all have a percentage of people that live like what you described. Why can’t you write about people as a whole, leave the color of peoples skin out of it. Now you really helped the outside world look more down upon us. Hey here’s a change Scout be apart of the solution and man your ears must be ringing because there is a lot of people who would like to borrow your ears did you see the TM Times????

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 03:59 pm

I"m sure glad that there’s folks like you in the Turtle Mountain community.  To fix the problems on the reservation is going to take some strong leadership from within.

No amount of outside ‘help’ will fix the problems.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 24, 2007 at 04:06 pm
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Faith, I blame the welfare state because the welfare state is the problem.  As long as some of these troubled Indians have the reservation to cling to as a “life preserver” what impetus do they have to improve their lives?

My intention was not to stereotype Indians but rather to tell the truth about the truly shocking and abhorrent conditions I observed.

If that makes you angry, there’s not much I can do about it.  Not everybody on the reservation lives as I observed, and perhaps I should have been more clear about that in my column, but a lot of people there live in poverty in filth.  And that needs to change.

You talk about other racial demographics in this country having problems, and you’re right.  I could probably drive down to a trailer park or some low-income housing and see a bunch of “white trash” living just as badly as those I observed on the reservation.  The thing is that the sort of poverty I observed doesn’t exist in such concentrated numbers off the reservation.

Unemployment on ND’s reservations is some 60%.  Off the reservation it’s 3%.  That’s a problem, and we need to fix it.  And more of the same of what we’re doing now isn’t going to do it.

We need a new direction, and leadership from concerned people in the reservation population like you.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 24, 2007 at 04:20 pm
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and btw for the rest of you, casinos have their ups and downs and the state sure gets there share of money from our casinos. And what’s the big deal is it so hard for anyone to actually look at the positives. I work at one and ours employs over 400 employees, who cares if theirs honkies working at them. Can you become anymore racist? Is it possible that you might take a moment and see the positives, people are employed and working for a living. And I believe it doesn’t matter what the color of your skin is people in high positions and politics have abused or embezzeled you see it all the time on the news or papers, it’s just the person PEOPLE. Yes there are some people educated enough to write a few laws that are on the rez. We just love depending on the government for our roads and schools it’s the greatest feeling ever “to depend on the government” who in their right mind could even post such a ridiculous comment? Who would want to depend on the government for anything, it’s just as ludicris as someone thinking casinos will solve everyone’s problems. I believe after the hurricanes a whole state is DEPENDING on the government I sure hope their the next story, my God for the repercussions, their great, great grand kids are going to go through, they’ll probably be welfare cases forever and than you guys can talk about them next. You know and as far as you guys telling us to get over what the government did to us in the so called war with small pox, slaughtering of the buffalo, our families and the moving of the happy, eager residents. It’s easier said than done. All nationalities have been through some form of genocide just different severities. We are moving on, we are over coming and it is in the past but do you just not mention it or forget it? It is who we are and what was done. What do you think of when you hear “jew”? I pay taxes and live life to it’s fullest what was done, was done but don’t excuse it like it wasn’t anything, holy crap were reminded every day cause we live here. We didn’t migrate here. Don’t you guys tell stories of how you moved or arrived? How would you like it if someone told you to get over your sickening came over on the boat stories. That’s why this stuff is in the history books so it doesn’t repeat itself. Holy cow people! I almost feel sorry for you guys!

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 04:47 pm

Reading the comments here at this post, I find I agree with most and disagree with others.  What I think is lacking is an overall perspective on American Indians and detailed knowledge of their history.

Rarely does a race of peopls in an entire continent do through as much deprivation as did the American Indians as a whole.  From a population of several millions, they were reduced to around 200,000 with most of the attrition cause by diseases for which they had to immunity that were unintentionally brought from Europe by settlers. In many cases, the disease fatalities in a given tribe were 80 - 90 percent effectively destroying the infrustucture of the tribe.  That the American Indians have survived extinction is a credit to their perseverance.

By now some of you may be wondering where I get the expertise for this subject.  Well first, I was born and raised on the White Earth reservation.  Although living on non-Indian land, I attend school with Indians, hunted and fished on Indian land ahd had quite a few Indian friends.  The reservation Indians at the time of my youth had a reputation for drunkeness and laziness, a stereotype that still exists today.  Even in the small town where I lived there was unwarranted biases toward the Indians.  Today the White Earth Indians are a viable people having a casino, in Mahnomen, and selling their home made products under the Native Harvent label.  One of their products is native (wild) rice which harvested from the area lakes.

I had also done an extensive study of the American Indian culture and have visited tribes from Montana to New Mexico.  I have always been graciously welcomed.  I found the Indians to be very patriotic with prominant display of the American flag with a color guard of their veterans at their pow-wows. 

Mostly the Indians want to be left alone to pursue life as they see it and they really don’t want non-Indians to tell them how to live their lives. It seems to me that is not an unreasonable goal since it is share by most of us.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on April 24, 2007 at 04:49 pm
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Mostly the Indians want to be left alone to pursue life as they see it and they really don’t want non-Indians to tell them how to live their lives.

I’d be fine with that, but that’s not what is happening Doc.

The modern Indian reservation is a welfare state which does nothing to help the Indians (it actually harms them) and costs us billions in the process.

All this talk about Indians being nice and gracious and all is missing the point.  I’m not saying that Indians are mean and ungracious, or even that they’re particularly lazy or anything like that.  All I’m saying is that the conditions on North Dakota’s Indian reservations are appalling, and they need to be changed.

And I think we can change them by ending the welfare state which exists there now.

Faith, you’re way off the subject.  We’re talking about the here and now.  The present.

You agree that there is a problem on the reservations.  Let’s talk about what we can do to fix it.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 24, 2007 at 04:56 pm

Rob, you really need to be railing at the BIA and the senseless treaties that were made by our government over the years that promised payment for their land ‘as long as the grass grows and the wind blows’ or similar language.  Those treaties which are still upheld by the courts are what’s responsible for the creation of the Indian welfare system.  Where the BIA is concerned is that they act as overseers for many of the reservations managing their royalty monies and denying the Indians clear title to their lands.  Oh yes, corruption in the BIA has been rampant with much of the royalty money from oil and other tribal land resources mysterious unaccountable.

Like most of us, we want to be free of government in our lives.  I believe that many Indians feel the same way


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on April 24, 2007 at 05:07 pm
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Ya we get it, we live here. Well get off your but and do something about it, if not shut up (that’s what my dad always tells mewink. It’s people like you that Talk but no Walk. And buddy not mad, just pointing out what you should have. Ya umemployment is high holy crap you keep saying it. It’s terrible, terrible, terrible. We have Boston who came in with his business and bringing in another one. We have Ritchie bringing up his. And holy cow “Life Preserver” not that bad, if you dropped off anyone of our residents in in the middle of no where, I bet both my houses they would make it, we are survivors and would make it anywhere. It’s just we love it here, our families are here, it’s our home. If they want to stay home it isn’t no ones business but there’s. The government has programs in place for that, why are you feeding so much energy into it. If assistance ended what do you think we would just die? I guarantee that we would all make it. Come here start some programs, write grants, start up a business, run for council and put your money were your mouth is. It’s so important that you had to put it on the innernet? Easy gunpowder! We will get it maybe moving a little slow, you don’t see anyone starving, if were going without, as my grandma would say “It wouldn’t be the first and won’t be the last” Why are you so blackened man????

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 05:10 pm
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You’re worried about the government wasting money? and you want to change US?????? Wow can you possibly get any nicer, so when and how do you plan on doing this??? WOW we are lucky, my do you have a really tall horse well come on over here, now. So I am way off help me understand I’m not that bright. We have about 15,000 living here half are under 18, lets say 15% retired and 40% percent working, so 60% would be a couple 1,000. Holy cow that is HORRIBLE I wonder how many in Minot or some other city live in filth, on welfare and hang on to their life preservers. After you fix us you should go see them next I bet there’s more.

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 05:24 pm
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Our Government wasting money??????????????? still thinking about that one......

Faith on April 24, 2007 at 05:27 pm

Faith reveals herself as just another raging victim leftie.  Takes no responsibility.  It’s always someone else’s fault, isn’t it, Faith?  Rob was trying to be helpful, and you rage at him because he is giving you bad news.  Tough.


Leftie political philosophy, from a DU commenter:

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH. The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet: Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

robert108 on April 24, 2007 at 05:28 pm
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Faith, no need to shoot the messenger.  All I did was point out the problems and suggest a solution.

You mischaracterizing my intent and aiming insults at me is hardly constructive.

Doc, if it were true that most Indians wanted the government out of their lives then why do so many of them get upset at the idea of ending federal assistance on the reservations?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 24, 2007 at 07:16 pm

It’s happening because of the total failure of the idea embraced by some that the government exists to take care of us. --Rob

You don’t like government welfare when it goes to Native Americans, but corporations get limited liability, that’s almost like welfare for shareholders. If the company goes belly up, the shareholders only lose their stock, they don’t pay a penny to creditors. Ol’ nanny states limited liability jumps in and saves their asses. Where is your rant against that Rob? Do you hate Native Americans Rob?

If our actions are illegal, we citizens risk incarceration, but corporations only get fined, and again, the shareholders share no blame. Ol’ nanny state is saving their asses again. Do you hate responsibility for ones actions Rob?

And what about all the welfare money given as tax breaks, I heard AMD was going to get about $1,000,000,000 for a shiny new fab. I don’t recall your rants against that.

Last year, more was spent on the military than all other countries combined. Tax-payers hard-earned money straight into private hands. Again, Rob was silent?

But if government gives money to the genuinely poor, all of a sudden, Rob’s there to point out the evils of the nanny state. There is an `H’ word that comes to mind, but I can never spell it, oh well…


“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Anarchist Vegetarian on April 25, 2007 at 06:25 am
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Rage??? I don’t rage holy cow just setting the story straight and if you can read I wasn’t blaming anyone ya genius. And I sure am not shooting. You come up with all these problems and announce them to the world and that’s it… nothing else and I’m the problem. “SUGGEST a Solution” well you think your the only one on earth that knows there’s a problem. There’s many people like you that suggest all sorts of solutions. Their called lazy because thats all they do is talk and no walk, Scout! and you think these are insults. Well I apologize Lord knows there’s to much of that going around. Just stating the facts…

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 06:42 am

but corporations get limited liability, that’s almost like welfare for shareholders.

And green apples are almost like rocks. 

I love how the retards have to ignore logic in order to make their point.

But if government gives money to the genuinely poor,

The government doesn’t give anything to anyone.  They take money from one group and give it to another bunch.

Now personally I don’t mind that as much when the recipients are in desperate straits due to no fault of their own.  But to take the money from people who make good choices and give it to people who make poor choices is wrong.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 25, 2007 at 06:43 am

AV. typical anti-capitalistic screed from you.  Also typical liberal equivalence effort comparing corporation ‘welfare’ with other welfare.  Seems like there was also some anti-war stuff there too in your disjointed comments.  What all this has to do with Rob I have no idea.  Try being cohesive next time and stick to the post topic because if you want to slam corporations you can write a guest blog on the subject.  LOL.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on April 25, 2007 at 06:44 am
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If our actions are illegal, we citizens risk incarceration, but corporations only get fined, and again, the shareholders share no blame.

I seem to remember some CEO’s going to jail over the last few years.  Are you exercising some selective memory?

Last year, more was spent on the military than all other countries combined. Tax-payers hard-earned money straight into private hands. Again, Rob was silent?

Well, defense of the nation is a legitimate expenditure of taxpayer dollars.  We live in freedom because our military is so fearsome that other nations can’t bully us.

If the company goes belly up, the shareholders only lose their stock, they don’t pay a penny to creditors.

They “only” lose their stock holdings?  Do you have any idea how much of a loss that is for many of them?

But if government gives money to the genuinely poor, all of a sudden, Rob’s there to point out the evils of the nanny state.

Hey, I’m four-square against giving tax dollars to private enterprise (except in instances of contractors providing government with services or goods during the course of routine commerce).  I like the idea of tax cuts for businesses, but only if they don’t favor one business over another.

What my point in this is that making people beholden to the government makes them slaves.  You remove the peoples’ incentive to raise themselves out of poverty.

What’s going on is this: You dumb liberals have convinced people like the Native Americans that they cannot get by without government assistance.  You’ve made them a victim class.  Then your politicians pander to them, telling them that they’re the only ones who will give them the government assistance they can’t live without.  Then the politicians use that assistance as so much bribe money to buy votes.

It’s sad, mostly because all that government assistance is causing rampant poverty.  Horrible conditions.

If you don’t believe me, just look at the billions we spend on assistance for the Indian reservations as is.  There is 60% unemployment on ND’s indian reservations while in the rest of the state unemployment is around 3%.  You know why that is?  Because the welfare state has made these people feel like they don’t have to work and earn for themselves.

They’re entitled, because they’re victims according to you.  But I don’t see victims.  I see Americans who should demand a better life.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 06:50 am
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You come up with all these problems and announce them to the world and that’s it

That’s more than most people do.  I’m not willing to ignore the problem.  I’m willing to do more to help, but you have to want to be helped.

you think your the only one on earth that knows there’s a problem. There’s many people like you that suggest all sorts of solutions. Their called lazy because thats all they do is talk and no walk, Scout!

So, first you tell me that I don’t live on the reservation so I should mind my own business.  Now you’re telling me that I’m lazy because I’m too busy minding my own business or something.

It’s your community, Faith.  These are your problems, and my problems too because it’s my tax dollars (and yours) being spent on the res.  So why don’t we get past the finger pointing and the name calling and start talking about solutions?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 06:54 am
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Yesssssssssssss it’s everyone’s else’s fault God forbid anyyone is responsible for their own actions and their fate. and that Rob he is so helpful someone should give him an award for all his hardwork, writing all this stuff in this blog. It is going to be so useful, hey maybe it will end the welfare mentality. Thank God he told me the bad news I never knew any of that exsisted. Ok guys help me become more responsible. I wasn’t even aware I wasn’t responsible or responsible. Man do I have a lot of work to do. So guys you abviously know what should take place tell me so I can be a hero like you guys. Wow am I lucky!!!!

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 06:54 am
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Yesssssssssssss it’s everyone’s else’s fault God forbid anyyone is responsible for their own actions and their fate.

Nobody here is saying “it’s everyone else’s fault.” We’re just pointing to a problem and wanting to talk abut solutions.

There’s no need to be so defensive, Faith.  No one is going after you personally, but these conditions really exist on the res.  You know they do.

All I’m asking is: What are we going to do about them?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 06:59 am

And green apples are almost like rocks. --The Whistler

I was referring to the tax-burden on many which benefits just few, which is sort of like welfare.

The government doesn’t give anything to anyone.  They take money from one group and give it to another bunch. --The Whistler

You’re trying to be clever. Once the government has taken something from someone, it can then give it to someone else. And obviously you are not opposed to that, in all cases, or else you’d be an anarchist. In this case, some Native Americans receive a little, and some seem to be unhappy about that.

Well, defense of the nation is a legitimate expenditure of taxpayer dollars.  We live in freedom because our military is so fearsome that other nations can’t bully us. --Rob

By defense you mean offense? I guess you’re speaking Orwellian. And by freedom, you really mean wage-slavery?  smile

Maybe the unemployed Native Americans just don’t want to do shit work. I know I don’t, and won’t.


“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Anarchist Vegetarian on April 25, 2007 at 07:10 am
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You know the bottom line is this. People change because either they want to or have to. Most people don’t even know they have to change, so why change? Some honest, some not we all know there’s problems every where and as long as the humans are alive their will always be someone to complain about. No matter where, who and color of their skin there is always going to be people helping and recieving help. I’m tired of debating with you because I don’t see you as a helper just a complainer who likes blowing smoke, after all of this what are you willing to do to make a differnce or just write about it? I know what I’m going to do. Work til about 6 go home clean my yard, (because the ground is finally drying out) spend some time with my son, maybe go visit my neighbors depends on what time I get done. Good Luck with your quest I’ll pray for your journey and all the welfare people.

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 07:17 am
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Great job my vegetarian buddy. Let’s live as one color and one cause to good for the greater! and btw Rob my aunt takes care of my grandma 24/7 because no one will see her in a nursing home, she recieves welfare.

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 07:22 am
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In this case, some Native Americans receive a little, and some seem to be unhappy about that.

We are unhappy about that because it isn’t helping them.

By defense you mean offense? I guess you’re speaking Orwellian. And by freedom, you really mean wage-slavery?

Wage slavery?  Ahhh, the bitter smell of an angry class warrior.

We have a free job market, and we all earn what we’re worth.

Maybe the unemployed Native Americans just don’t want to do shit work. I know I don’t, and won’t.

Right. Much better to sit back and live on the government dole.

Socialism doesn’t work, Vegan.  It leads to tyranny, oppression and poverty every single time it’s been tried.

You know the bottom line is this. People change because either they want to or have to. Most people don’t even know they have to change, so why change? Some honest, some not we all know there’s problems every where and as long as the humans are alive their will always be someone to complain about. No matter where, who and color of their skin there is always going to be people helping and recieving help.

You’re not wrong on any of this, but the key is that nobody is helped until they are willing to help themselves.  We can spend billions on the reservations, and we do, but none of it will make a bit of difference until many (not all) on the reservations have some impetus to help themselves.

I’m tired of debating with you because I don’t see you as a helper just a complainer who likes blowing smoke, after all of this what are you willing to do to make a differnce or just write about it?

It’s not my land, Faith.  It’s not my community.  You’re in the community, what are you doing to help?  What are you doing to change things?

You’re certainly not listening to new ideas.  I point out some very real, very disgusting problems on the reservations and rather than get angry at the people responsible for those conditions you attack me and all but call me a racist.

Do you really think that’s productive?  If you’re tired of me, fine.  Close your eyes, put your fingers back in your ears and maintain the status quo.  Meanwhile, those of us who care will be trying to foment change.

And writing about problems does help.  I’m calling attention to the issue, and I’ve got a lot of people’s attention.  That makes a difference.

I know what I’m going to do. Work til about 6 go home clean my yard, (because the ground is finally drying out) spend some time with my son, maybe go visit my neighbors depends on what time I get done. Good Luck with your quest I’ll pray for your journey and all the welfare people.

You’re taking this entirely too personal.  This was never meant as a commentary on you, just a commentary on the very real conditions which exist on the Indian reservations.

Great job my vegetarian buddy.

Just so you know, Vegan is a communist who would see all the success and wealth you’ve amassed for yourself seized by the government and redistributed to everyone else (including those who refuse to work for it).  You shouldn’t be complimenting him, you should be mocking him for the idiot he is.  Just because he’s making sounds that are like salve on your defensive rash doesn’t mean his ideas are good for you, your people or this country.

and btw Rob my aunt takes care of my grandma 24/7 because no one will see her in a nursing home, she recieves welfare.

I’m all for giving a helping hand to people like your grandma and aunt.  People who have earned it and are willing to work to provide for themselves.

What I’m not willing to do is subsidize a lifestyle of lazy, drunken, drug-fueled debauchery.  A lot of which is happening on the reservations.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 07:50 am
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yes your writing is doing wonders, just keep writing maybe you can send a letter to all the people who’s doors you knocked on and tell them! So you seem to be riding the fence when it comes to welfare and I’m sure put my fingers back in my ears they were never there, maybe if you give me a list of all the people you went to, I could tell them for you to get off welfare, put shoes on their kids and clean their houses. Listening to new ideas? all I see is a lot of complaining and half wrong information from someone who has a really tall horse who likes to only write about things. If writing on blogs helps a lot. You should write ablout world peace next ok buddy!

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 08:06 am

Are we sure AV:TFR and faith are not one in the same? BIA has made most Rezs into welfare warehouses. Don’t help Indians, just give them enough to survive and then ignore them. Are there people building decent lives on Rez? Yes. The perception that alcoholism, drug abuse, and poverty are rampant on many Rezs is because they are. Getting all snotty and crying that you are a “victim” is pathetic.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on April 25, 2007 at 08:31 am
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all I see is a lot of complaining and half wrong information from someone who has a really tall horse who likes to only write about things

Half wrong information?

Are you really trying to suggest that the conditions I observed don’t exist on the reservation?

maybe if you give me a list of all the people you went to, I could tell them for you to get off welfare, put shoes on their kids and clean their houses

Or maybe you could demand that those who won’t help themselves shouldn’t be helped by anyone else either.  Personal accountability is what’s needed, not defensive posturing from people offended by anyone even mentioning that there’s a problem.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 08:32 am
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You know I think you need help, your saying a lot of harmful words and a making a lot of comments that shouldn’t be made. I said half wrong genius and it’s none of your business how they live as far as that goes on how anyone lives, just like it’s none of ours how you live. You should take a drive to another town next and write about them and quit talking about OURS!

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 09:25 am
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I live on the TM Rez and do agree with a lot of what you are saying Rob but, I guess your mannerism toward us is what everyone is mostly upset about to just single our Rez and not get the whole of the TM Rez. 

I went to boarding schools from the age of ten, due to my parents divorcing and their drinking problems both are healthy today and my Father is a well respected man on the Rez.  When I was about 9 years old I watched this John Wayne western killing the Indians and I remember thinking that I wanted to save them not knowing that I was ½ Indian myself, or that I lived on a Rez it was just home to me, because of the upbringing that my grandparents had to be ashamed of the Indian in us, we only knew the French side, I told my Father that I wished I was an Indian!  “What!!! You are Indian” and next I was shipped off to W.I.S.  I was treated at first like a non-native among the other students because of the French side is more predominant, but my heart is native.  When I was out side the Rez or Boarding School I was treated like I was walking with filth and people would ask me if I was an Indian Lover! 

I started hating coming home because of the condition of the Rez and I asked my Father why we could not move away because he went out got an Education, he worked in the Real World for many years an he also served in the Vietnam Era, His answer to me “this is my home, this is your home and it will be your children’s home and I went out, got my education through college and life and seen that I….one person can make a difference on this Rez…It is up to you my Girl to make the best out of a situation that was not your fault and you will continue to see the bad in this Rez if you choose to not acknowledge who you are and where you came from and remember your ancestors and the fight for your freedom and education and health.  I went on got my education off the Rez and I choose to move home because no matter what condition this Rez is in or who in office is corrupt, drinking or drugging this is still a place I call home.

We are in the infancy staging with cleaning up the housing projects, the Housing Authority has trained their staff on the signs to look for drugging, abuse also they go into homes and tell them to clean.  We have programs for those who choose to clean up.  It is the individual’s choice to become sober like any American out there or to pick them self up and find that job to get off of welfare. 

So eventually we will take bigger steps to have Pride back in our lives.

Take away the programs that our out there to help this individual’s then what would you have us do!!!

Selina on April 25, 2007 at 09:35 am

Rob: Here we have it: the leftie troll blaming you for using “harmful words”.  You tell the truth about conditions on the res, and you are the problem!  That’s leftiethink to a “T”.  No matter what you say, this troll will try to trash it, rather than do anything constructive.


Leftie political philosophy, from a DU commenter:

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH. The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet: Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

robert108 on April 25, 2007 at 09:36 am

If there are any lurkers out there with an open mind please consider that Rob truly wants to see the people on the reservations lifted out of poverty.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on April 25, 2007 at 09:38 am
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Selina:

I live on the TM Rez and do agree with a lot of what you are saying Rob but, I guess your mannerism toward us is what everyone is mostly upset about

I appreciate your comments.

Is it really my mannerism, or are people just defensive about this?  Because I think I’ve been polite.  Blunt and firm, but polite.  I certainly don’t think the conditions on the reservation are anything having to do with deficiencies in Native Americans as a race, but rather the reservation system itself.

I think this…

Take away the programs that our out there to help this individual’s then what would you have us do!!!

Is short sighted thinking.  We’ve had those programs in place on the Res. for decades and they haven’t done any good.  We spend and we spend and we spend, and nothing changes.

We need a shift on the res, and I think a shift toward more personal responsibility and less government dependence is just the ticket.

You know I think you need help, your saying a lot of harmful words and a making a lot of comments that shouldn’t be made.

What harmful words have I spoken?  What comments have I made that shouldn’t be?  All I’ve done is point out the problems on the reservation while being unblinkingly polite to you and everyone else who has contacted me.

I said half wrong genius and it’s none of your business how they live as far as that goes on how anyone lives

Except that it is my business.  It’s my tax dollars (and everybody else’s) being spent to prop up the welfare state on the reservation, and the crime/drugs on the reservation spill over into my community.

We are all Americans, and we are all North Dakotans, and we should tackle this problem together.

Are you going to be part of the problem - choosing to get upset and defensive when people talk about the problem - or are you going to be part of the solution?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:44 am
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We’ve had those programs in place on the Res. for decades and they haven’t done any good.  We spend and we spend and we spend, and nothing changes.

Yes they have been working, one on one and you have to remember there are alot of people on this small overpopulated Rez.  What do you need a list of those that finished the program or paid of there loans!!!!

Selina on April 25, 2007 at 10:03 am
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After reading the article I was offended by most of what was stated in the article because it is not fair and it is one sided.  Obviously there wasn’t nearly enough research done before writing the article. I do see that you did apologize

Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa(TMBCI) has hundreds of well educated and/or trained “workers” including medical doctors, licensed attorneys, engineers, PHD’s and also self owned businesses, electricians, educators, etc… Many live on the reservation some live off.  Many work on the reservation many work off the reservation.  We also have some people who don’t work and can’t find work due to NO jobs available.  Our population is so high compared to the land base and there is not enough work available.  We do have many employers such as our casino, the tribe itself, Turtle Mountain Community Schools (1605 enrolled k-12 students), Ojibewa School(unsure of enrollment 300-400), TM Community College, TM Manufacturing, CTI, Quentin Burdick Health Care Facility, BIA, private businesses, and several more including surrounding indian communities.

Some of our people will not move away from their families.  Family is everything to our people. 

Our lifestyles are improving all of the time.  Most attend our community college and move on to pursue their Bachelor’s, Master’s, PHD’s, and Doctorate’s degree.  Coming out of poverty is not going to improve overnight it will take years and years.  Welfare is not what people want to live on--you can’t survive on welfare (now TANF) The program is not for life; you can only be on it so long and there is a cap on how much you can receive regardless of how many dependants you have.  There are requirements such as attending training sessions on work skills, social skills, life skills and job searching.  Once that is completed--you are “cut off” of TANF.  So there is probably a lot of people out there who have went through this and now receive absolutely nothing to live on and do not live off of the government.  I don’t know how they survive, but they are--it is their business if they choose not to work and live the life they live.  And if they can’t find a job we cannot judge them for that--

Our casino is not profitable;it is basically an employement agency for our people. Probably 99% of the 400 employees are Native American.  We are not located in a suburban area so our profits are low.  Profits go back in to employing our people for the tribe and casino. 

I know I kind of jumped around but this is not an essay and I just wanted to relay some information and give you some websites to go to.

http://www.tmbci.net/index.html
http://www.tm.edu

jackson on April 25, 2007 at 10:25 am
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Great Job Jackson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 10:31 am
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Well yah, who wants to see anyone living in poverty anywhere. What Rob is saying is half right and in order to keep an open mind all the truth needs to be said. And if all you get out of what I’m saying is trash than you need to read with an open mind. Right Scout?

Faith on April 25, 2007 at 10:48 am
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Selena,

Yes they have been working, one on one and you have to remember there are alot of people on this small overpopulated Rez.  What do you need a list of those that finished the program or paid of there loans!!!!

You’d be a better judge of that than I, Selena.  Perhaps you need to be more active in educating the public about the success of these programs (if that success, indeed, real).  Because certainly that success isn’t evident to anyone who visits the reservations.

And perhaps the specific programs you’re talking about haven’t been in place for years, but the reservation system has and it hasn’t done the Indians any favors.

Jackson,

After reading the article I was offended by most of what was stated in the article because it is not fair and it is one sided.  Obviously there wasn’t nearly enough research done before writing the article. I do see that you did apologize

I haven’t apologized for anything.  My article was an entirely accurate representation of what I observed on the reservation too.  If you live on the reservation or have spent any time there I’m sure you know this.

I will say that I should have spent more time pointing out that not everybody on the reservation lives this way.  But that should have been implied.  Most of your problem with my column (most of everybody’s problem with my column, it seems) is that you’re entirely too defensive.  I wasn’t writing about you, personally.  I was writing what I observed.  And in so far as that goes I was spot-on.

I’m sorry if it offends you.  To be honest with you, it offends me as well.  Maybe we should be talking about do something about it?  Something to make people more independent and less dependent on the government.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on April 25, 2007 at 11:09 am
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How typical, an uninvited guest comes to the reservation, begins harassing our people, and then comments on all of the negatory images he sees when he is there. Perhaps, blogger, you had it in your mind, before you even traveled to this reservation (where I am a tribal member, in fact) that you were going to see these images. Perhaps you already had a report of what you would find when you traveled there. Our people have been known by the communities that surround the reservation that we are hard working, diligent and committed people. A lot of the scenes you described happen in any oppressed neighborhood anywhere in the world. Why shouldn’t we have these images and examples when we have been burdened with poverty, loss of identity, and forced religion on the reservation? The Catholic Church was given funds to displace American Indians from their reservation or Indian communities and then they were punished for practicing their culture or speaking their languages. Then, they were sent home to survive after having the Indian beaten out of them. They call this POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER and our people suffer from that. It is not from our own accord if it happens as often as you say, it happens from white men beating the culture out of our people. It has led to parents disowning their children for not taking up the Christian religions and being Bible bangers and forsaking their own culture because, believe it or not, assimilation is a HELL OF A DRUG! You are so wrong. Where were the positive images you saw? Perhaps your preconceived notion stood in the way or blurred your vision so terribly that you could not see straight when you reached the rez line. Well, you were out of line. This is all pure stereotypical hatred coming from a while male perspective.

">Judge Vondall on April 25, 2007 at 11:53 am

This is all pure stereotypical hatred coming from a while male perspective.

A perfect example of stereotypical hatred of white men.


Leftie political philosophy, from a DU commenter:

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH. The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet: Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

robert108 on April 25, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Judge Vondall: I have little knowledge of Native American problems, Although my late brother and baby sister were/are part (1/4) Cherokee. But, I found your the negative views of assimilation quite interesting. To assimilate with a larger cultural group is to become a part of a whole, many tributaries coming together to make a great river. While one can understand your desire to hold onto your own unique and only truly American Culture; nontheless, anyone of any religion, color, race or creed can achieve anything they want to achieve in this country, but that success demands a sufficient degree of assimilation to be able to take advantage of what this greater cultural identity has to offer. To assimilate does not mean losing ones unique group identity, and so I don’t understand why you would not want your children, grandchildren and all Native Americans to have access to all this country has to offer them, if you don’t like the word assimilation use another, but don’t keep fellow Native Americans in poverty by discouraging assimilation or accepting a doctrine of perpetual victimization.


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on April 25, 2007 at 12:28 pm
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Rob,
I was born and raised on the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation.  I am proud to be a Native American.  I am a 39 years old, I am a single mother and I have a 8 year old daughter who will be nine this year.  I did not have a child until I was 30 years old.  So I guess being a greatgrandmother probably won’t happen for a while. Oh, by the way I was also bought up as a housing kid.  But my family moved when I got older.  We moved into the country.  When we first moved to my fathers land, there were no houses around except for maybe one or two.  Now where my fathers house sits there are many homes.  (Probably from the reservation being too over populated)
I am writing this because I would like to know were I can go to get all this help.  First of all I have a home that I own. I had to pay to get it setup and moved.  I had to pay to get everything redone in it.  I am told that I am not eligible for anything because I make too much money for a family of two.  I was not eligible for WIC when my child was little.  I am not el