Home Mobile Archives Reader Blogs Register Login

Tuesday, April 24, 2007

The Appalling State Of Our Indian Reservations, Redux

Update: For those of you coming here from the Grand Forks Herald article, please click this link to read my response to the banishment.

For the January issue of the Dakota Beacon magazine I wrote a column entitled “The Appalling State Of Our Indian Reservations.” I also posted that column here on Say Anything.  I’m publishing it again at the bottom of this post.

It has come to my attention recently that photocopies of the column have been circulating up on the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation along with this website’s URL and the phone number for Beacon editor Steve Cates.  I am happy to learn that my column has generated so much attention (comments have been trickling in from readers of it visiting SA) and I welcome all to the debate over the conditions on this state’s reservations.  It is a serious problem, and one that needs lots of attention.  I have been contacted by the Turtle Mountain Times and they’ve asked permission to reproduce my column in the edition of their publication on newsstands now.  I was happy to agree to do so and will be writing a second, follow-up column to appear in the next issue.

Many of the responses I’ve gotten, both in comments and via email, have taken exception to some of the descriptions I made of conditions I had observed during a visit to the Belcourt area in late 2006.  I’m not surprised that people would be defensive about my descriptions as I was very blunt in making them, but I don’t think it’s very productive to get angry at me simply for pointing them out.  Anyone who has spent any length of time on the Turtle Mountain Reservation (and a lot of other reservations, for that matter) knows that my descriptions are accurate.  These conditions exist.  They’re real, and we should not dismiss them or sweep them under the rug simply because talking about them makes some angry.

What I’m saying is “Don’t shoot the messenger.” I wouldn’t write about the Indian reservations if I didn’t care, and I wouldn’t be trying to draw other people’s attention to the problems of the Indian reservations if I didn’t want them to care as well.

Here’s the original column:

Recently I had occasion to spend about 15 hours visiting people on the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation in northern North Dakota, and I’ve got to say that I was pretty shocked by what I saw.
I’ve spent a lot of time on North Dakota’s Indian reservations.  I’ve worked there, visited businesses and restaurants and driven throughout them. I’ve even been up to a lot of people’s houses to deliver things or obtain information, so I’ve been aware of the poor conditions on the reservations for some time, but never before yesterday have I had the opportunity to have such an intimate look at life on the reservation. I was not impressed with what I saw.

The first thing I noticed was that while I was going around neighborhoods and knocking on doors was that nearly everyone seemed to be at home. Just about every knock received an answer. In a non-reservation community when I go through residential neighborhoods during the day it’s hard to find people at home. Everyone is out and busy. Why isn’t it like this on the reservation? Probably because in most of North Dakota the unemployment rate is around 3%, while on the ND Indian reservations it’s about 63% (according to a recent report from the Governor’s office).

Which is a sad commentary in and of itself, but rampant unemployment aside the simple reality of the conditions these people are living in is even more amazing. I saw kids playing outside, on a day when the temperature was just below freezing, in shorts and bare feet (though they were wearing parkas). I met people living in homes with broken out windows and nothing but a piece of plywood or some plastic stretched over them to keep out the cold. I saw homes with dozens of abandoned vehicles around them, and took in smells emitting from some of the doors that were opened to me that brought tears to my eyes. Inside the homes I saw mountains of unwashed dishes, mounds of unwashed clothes, overflowing trash cans, walls literally dripping with nicotine from the constant smoking and throughout it all children playing in the reek.

And the people living in these homes were as disappointing as the homes themselves. I met people who were drunk (or possibly high) at noon, even as their children played in the road and on the twisted, sharp metal of abandoned cars. I saw a visibly pregnant mother smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer. I met a woman who was 29 years old and already a grandmother (to no fewer than three grandchildren) thanks to both her and her daughter’s young pregnancies. I met men and women, fathers and mothers, who had spent more of their lives in prison than out of prison. I met entire families whose only source of income seemed to be from stealing or selling drugs plus whatever they got from the government in terms of assistance.

I have heard tales from the notorious slums in places like Los Angeles and New York, but I’m not sure those slums can beat North Dakota’s Indian reservations in terms of pure filth and abhorrent living conditions.
So how is this happening in North Dakota? A state that is thriving economically right now? A state where the unemployment rate is so low that employers are practically screaming for workers? I know why it’s happening, but not a lot of people are going to want to hear it.

It’s happening because of the total failure of the idea embraced by some that the government exists to take care of us. The government has been taking care of North Dakota’s Indians, but it’s harming them more than it’s helping.

I know, I know. The Indians have gotten a raw deal in this country’s history, but “history” is exactly what that is. We’re in a new era now. Our government spends billions of dollars on creating education and employment opportunities for Indians, not to mention the billions spent on personal assistance for the Indians themselves in the form of housing money, food money, welfare money, etc. But none of this is working. Most of the Indians on these reservations eat up all of that assistance and still don’t manage to lift themselves out of the ghettos they’re living in. Why? I think it’s because they live without consequences.

Most of us would probably consider living in a squalid apartment in a nasty housing complex a pretty serious consequence for not getting ahead in life, but it seems to me as though most of these Indians are perfectly content to live there. Probably because they don’t know any better. They were likely raised in housing projects by their parents, who in turn were probably raised in housing projects themselves. The “welfare mentality” has become so ingrained in these people that most of them don’t have any drive to reach for something better. It’s not that they’re incapable of education and holding down a steady job, it’s just that they don’t have to do those things to eek by in life. Like their parents before them, they leave selfish lives full of self-gratification and little achievement while the government subsidizes them.

We can give these people all the opportunities in the world, but it isn’t going to make a lick of difference until there are some real consequences for cashing in on those opportunities. The safety net needs to be taken out from under the Indians. The reservation system needs to end. The cradle-to-grave entitlements need to end. The time of tough love needs to begin, because that’s the only way things are going to get better on these reservations.
Our government has tried to take care of the Indians for decades now, and all it has resulted in is rampant crime, rampant unemployment, rampant substance abuse and poverty.  It is cruel to perpetuate the current system simply because the idea of removing assistance from these people seems cruel.  What is cruel is putting them in a situation where there is no impetus to succeed. Now is the time to shift the responsibility for making it in the world to the Indians themselves. Not only to help them, but also to end the mean charade of the status quo.

Comments

Wow.  I have been involved in a debate over the “Religious Freedom” of the Navajo tribe and their desire to control the fate of the local ski area (on non-reservation land) outside of Flagstaff at my own site.

Here is a sampling of the mail I get when I disagree that Indians are not entitled to special preferential treatment of their religion from one of the enlightened Libs that thinks they need “repaid” for past sins of our ancestors or that they need taken care of because they are defenseless:

However, from your telling of the recent Casino situation, global warming, to your details about the Arizona Snowbowl case, its very clear you have never studied anything related to ecological functionality, culture, the history of the US, and specifically Native American History.

Sir, your racism is reminiscent of the civil rights movement in the 60’s. You are one of the micro-reasons racism still exists as your white supremaced attitude leaks through almost every article I’ve read on your blog in the last couple of hours.

I’ll see what my SOAN 630/680 class thinks of this blog in the coming week or two as we may focus a case study on your particular blog as a real world example of neo-colonialism, as well as bounce this off the others at the environmental justice center in Washington that I work with specifically to address such issues as you raise in these articles.

Perhaps we’ll be in contact in the future. Until then I hope your readers distinguish the horrendous hateful tone you express in this blog through the beauty that is skiing, and readers recognize that this perspective is no more than ultra right wing conservative GW Bush type propaganda, hidden under a veil of skiing, creating a neo-colonial platform for white folks to continue to hate Indians so YOU CAN GO SKIING (!?).

We have a system that allows this group of people to continue to demand more and more from government.  Every time someone sees horrible conditions on the Res, the Lib answer is to give more money to them to help lift them from poverty.  In this case, they don’t own the ski resort, the land is Forest Service land, and the Indians want the government to ignore the property rights of the resort in favor of their religious freedom.  We owe them that since we stole the entire country from them in the first place.

Every piece of land given to them has been littered with trash.  They ignore environmental practices the rest of us are forced to endure.  They are a third world country unto themselves.  And imagine them firing up smokestacks of coal power plants because they are exempt from Kyoto and profiteering from that loophole just like they do casinos.  It isn’t that much of a stretch.

Justin B. on April 24, 2007 at 04:43 pm
Avatar for halatbis

Rob--I agree that the conditions on the reservations is atrocious and brings shame on us all--not for what was done years ago, but for what we continue to do.  We keep putting money into a failing system and keep enabling the dependent behavior and lack of personal responsibility.  Two books I read in the last year or so deal with the dependency of the black community on the programs that are to achieve equal opportunity.  The one that is so much like the Indian situation is by Thomas Sowell and the title escapes me--it’s a recent book.  The second is by John McWhorter, called Losing the Race--he has written several on the problems in the black community.
Both writers examine the culture as it is anti-learning, anti-white, and devoid of responsible behavior.
Good luck with your piece.  By the way, I had a conversation with Margaret Sitte about this at the Cates party last fall.  She could give you some insight into the family/social problems that seem to be prevalent within the Indian community.
Hal Neff

halatbis on April 24, 2007 at 06:14 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Hal, thanks for the support.  Comments and emails are rolling in from up there.  There are a lot of people upset, but I think there are a lot of people who have had their eyes opened a bit too.

Maybe this will make a difference.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 24, 2007 at 07:12 pm
Avatar for Johan

Two words: Collective Guilt. This may lead to other atrocities as described in Thomas Sowell’s Aftermath of the 1960s at Townhall.

Johan on April 25, 2007 at 05:24 am
Avatar for Anh

I read your original post when it came out.  Being a Native NY City resident, I can’t seem to see where it is our problem whether they live in filth or kill each other.  I thought that Indian Reservation are sovereign.  Doesn’t that mean I don’t have to care? Indian Reservations are like zoo.  Interest place to go and take pictures, and then leave.

Anh on April 25, 2007 at 08:13 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

I certainly don’t think the reservations are a “zoo.” I think the folks on the Indian reservations are Americans who need to be brought into the mainstream.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 08:33 am
Avatar for Richard Monette

Sir:

You are correct that the current system has empowered dependencies in Mackinaw Wajiw (Turtle Mountain).

1) The State of North Dakota unlawfully imposes a tax on sales of gasoline and heating fuels on the reservations; so when Mackinaw Wajiw tries to impose its own gasoline tax, the State fights it.  Sovereigns like North Dakota survive off revenue gained from taxes; but the State uses everything in its power to disallow the sovereign Tribe from doing the same, even in the face of established law.  I personally proposed a gasoline tax agreement to Governor Hoeven, but he steadfastly declined to agree.  How could Governor Hoeven act that way in the face of the kind of inhumane social ills you point out?  (Of course, you would have no fodder for your diatribe if your leader, Governor Hoeven, didn’t act that way.)

2) The State and its political subdivisions, the counties, impose property taxes on so-called “fee” land within the reservation.  I own fee land on the reservation, and what do I get for my State taxes?  My road is never snow-plowed or maintained in any way; the Tribe’s utility administers the water and sewer; my taxes revenue funds off-reservation schools.  Governor Hoeven only scoffed at the idea that the on-reservation property taxes ought to go to the Tribe, which in turn might consider taxing all lands on the reservation, in turn infusing the Tribe’s property owners with the sense of responsibility and community you say they lack.  Hmmm … why can’t those Tribes be sovereign just because we tax their land as soon as the landowner is capable of paying taxes?  Hmmm.

3) When a company from Winnipeg finds that North Dakota’s economy – specifically labor costs - has made its Town of Pembina operations unprofitable, the Tribe offers cheaper labor, a certain by-product of the poverty you highlight.  In response, Governor Hoeven and the State then offer tax and other incentives to keep the company away from the Tribe and to remain in the Town of Pembina.  Did you mention entitlements?  Paying public revenues to support a private entity is communism.  I guess Governor Hoeven is used to that, given that he is a former President of the Bank of North Dakota, a STATE-OWNED bank; the center-piece of a communist system.  It’s one thing to own a State mill or State insurance company – but a BANK?  Now that’s communism.  Governor Hoeven likes to claim that reservation Indians are his citizens too, but he clearly has his first class citizens – off the reservation – and his second class citizens on the reservation.  How can he and North Dakotans act that way in the face of the Tribe’s grinding poverty and social ills to which you refer?

4) The Tribe attempts to build a nursing home, for short term construction work, then long-term care-provider jobs, let alone being able to keep their elders at home to keep their society intact, instead of sending them to ten different nursing homes in North Dakota to keep the State’s economy afloat.  True to form, the State of North Dakota fought the Tribe with the most deceitful of machinations.  Like you, Governor Hoeven and the people of the State Legislature and government acted like the Tribe’s people were too stupid to understand.  But I did understand such political machinations, having worked on US Capitol Hill and high in the US executive branch.  But the real problem is why I and the Tribe’s people expect the worst every time we attempt to deal with Governor Hoeven North Dakota or to assert our own sovereignty to alleviate the grinding poverty and social ills to which you refer.

Richard Monette on April 25, 2007 at 09:26 am
Avatar for Kade

As a resident of the Turtle Mountain Reservation I have seen some of what you speak of...people who don’t care...people who live in squalor...and people who do not take personal responsibility for their lives and situation.  You need to not be so general and cast such a wide net, however, and make it seem that this is true of all reservation homes and reservation residents.

I am a college educated person (B.A. and M.S. degrees), have been employed very gainfully for years, and do not abuse drugs or “live off the system”.  There are hundreds and hundreds of people like me on the reservation. 

What you should be saying is that poor choices and conditions are not caused by the reservation, but are problems that need to be changed.  This change should be coming from within the reservation system, but the tribal government does not utilize its best and brightest to help solve these problems.  Instead, like all politicians, tribal government would rather garner votes from the electorate through handouts and other actions that perpetuate dependence and do not encourage self-sufficiency, rather than make tough choices.

Your article comes off a bit racist in its generalities.  I don’t think you mean to come off this way, but I can see why people would be angry.

Remember...when you assume you make an ass out of U and ME.

Kade on April 25, 2007 at 09:43 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Richard,

I’ll be willing to listen to arguments about “sovereign” reservation states when the reservations aren’t spending millions of federal tax dollars.

Sovereign means independent, and in no way, shape or form are the reservations independent.

Kade,

What, specifically, in my article was “a bit racist?” I’d be interested in knowing.  I’ll cop to being blunt in my assessment of the situation, and Ill also confess to perhaps not spending enough time explaining that not everyone on the reservation lives as I described, but “racist” is an accusation that is over the line.

If I were racist and didn’t care about Indians, or hated them, I would forget that the reservations exist and let the conditions there go on unnoticed.

You can’t call me racist for caring.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:48 am

I own fee land on the reservation, and what do I get for my State taxes?

Hey common ground!  smile


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 25, 2007 at 09:50 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Richard, I’m not dismissive of your points though.  When you talk of your property taxes not going to your local schools, I’m sympathetic to that.

But can we agree that the problem on the res. is entirely too much dependence on the government?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:51 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Kade, all you’ve proven is that you’re one of the 37% (or whatever) with jobs.  An anecdote proves nothing beyond the fact that an anecdote occurred.

And when you blame “tribal government,” are you not in part blaming yourself?  Those leaders ARE elected, after all.

I’ll make a humble attempt to simplify Rob’s point; sometimes it is a good thing when people are allowed to suffer the consequences of their actions.  In the words of Scripture, if a man will not work, neither shall he eat.

And certainly we’d do well to eliminate some of the Mickey Mouse stuff listed by Mr. Monette.  However, Rob’s got a great point that real progress is going to start when people start doing the basics.  Nobody’s going to bring jobs to an area where it’s obvious people don’t take care of themselves.

Robert Perry on April 25, 2007 at 10:04 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Another problem with the reservations is that they provide an artificial incentive for people to stay where there isn’t enough economic activity to employ them.

The reservations are where they are, and the Indians stay there because there’s entitlements and other government incentives to be had by doing so.  But what incentive is there for economic activity?

Jobs don’t always go where the people are.  Sometimes people have to go where the jobs are.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 11:03 am
Avatar for Lyle Gwin

Rob,

I agree with alot of what you say in this article of reservation poverty. But though it may be history, history is what got the Indian Reservations to the state we are in. Also you mentioned the unemployment rate of North Dakota in general. Well let’s take a good solid look at that issue you and alot of non-natives complain about government money being spent on welfare and other government subsidy programs being afforded to us, not once have any of you mentioned or speak of the farmers and ranchers who get monies from the same tax dollars that you are refering too. Individuals in agriculture get $100,000.00’s of dollars while the majority of Natives only get $3,000.00 - $10,000.00 annually.

So, if you are going to be a messanger please send a complete message about everyone not just the poverty stricken.

Let’s not forget while the nation was in a great Depression and non-natives were lined up at food lines and living in substandard situations, we here at Fort Berthold Indian Reservation were thriving while we lived in the bottomlands. That is until the Army Corps of Engineers took the bottom lands from us and moved us out and then made us dependant upon government subsidies that we were once throwing away.

I could go on and on as I’m sure you could but that is not going to solve anything. So, now that we know what the problem is (poverty); if you truly care as you say you do, than help us come up with an amicable solution to this atrocious state we are in.

Thank you for caring,

Respectfully,

Lyle Gwin

Lyle Gwin on April 25, 2007 at 02:05 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Lyle, thanks for the comment.

ell let’s take a good solid look at that issue you and alot of non-natives complain about government money being spent on welfare and other government subsidy programs being afforded to us, not once have any of you mentioned or speak of the farmers and ranchers who get monies from the same tax dollars that you are refering too. Individuals in agriculture get $100,000.00’s of dollars while the majority of Natives only get $3,000.00 - $10,000.00 annually.

I didn’t mention farm subsidies in that specific column, but I have spent a lot of time being very critical of farm subsidies.  I don’t support them at all.  I didn’t mention them in the column because the column wasn’t about farmers.

That is until the Army Corps of Engineers took the bottom lands from us and moved us out and then made us dependant upon government subsidies that we were once throwing away.

There is no doubt that the Indians haven’t always gotten a raw deal, but I’m trying to look forward and not backward.  I like what you’re saying about being “made...dependent upon government subsidies.” I think we should be working toward making the reservations independent of the government.

So you and I are on the same page there.

if you truly care as you say you do, than help us come up with an amicable solution to this atrocious state we are in.

That’s what I was trying to do with this column, but people keep calling me a racist and getting all defensive because I’m talking about the things I saw.

The first step is raising awareness, and I don’t think a lot of people who live away from the reservations are aware of just how bad things have gotten on them.  So I wrote the column to inform them, and to point out that there is a better way.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 02:14 pm
Avatar for Robert Perry

Actually, the problem isn’t poverty, Lyle.  If it were, we should have expected the worst conditions to be found among immigrants from Asia and so on, who didn’t even have BAD land to start on.  That’s simply not the case; the most wretched conditions are consistently found among those who have been dependent on welfare for a couple of generations.

To use Ft. Berthold as an example, that reservation has about 250 acres per resident, more or less a square mile per family.  Are you seriously claiming that people cannot make a living with that amount of resources, including a wonderful lake? 

There are an awful lot of people who would like to be that “poor” and “without opportunity,” friend.  The trouble is not that people don’t have opportunity.  It’s that they don’t take it.

Robert Perry on April 25, 2007 at 02:24 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Well said, Robert.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 02:32 pm
Avatar for myron lafontaine

Rob,
I am a resident of Belcourt, ND-It is in the beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation. I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed. I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact. Walls dripping with nicotine-nice touch. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living. When you were stuck in our squalor of filth did you notice anything beautiful. I could go to your community and probably find meth addicts within a stones throw of your house, maybe the neighbors daughter is in vegas turning tricks- check your six and you’ll find enough garbage to write a book. You will find whatever you are looking for and you were looking for filth. I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look for the beauty-it is here. The people are extremely friendly, the land is beautiful, and you’ll find expensive homes that any white elitist would be proud to own. Shoot I’ll even invite you to my house-bring a white glove if you want.

myron lafontaine on April 25, 2007 at 06:48 pm

You guys should talk to the people that are lobbying Congress for more money for the reservations.  Those guys are saying that things are so bad you need tons more money.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 25, 2007 at 06:52 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed.

Then your eyes must not be open.  Ever heard of the “old housing” development?  The “east cluster?” Places like that?

They’re bad.  Really, really bad.

I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact.

White superiority?  Where in my column did I even suggest that whites were superior to Indians?  And for that matter, how do you even know that I’m white?

Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

There are nice places in Belcourt, but to call it a “beautiful place with a high standard of living” is more than a little bit of a farce.  There’s 60% unemployment in Belcourt.  That’s not a high standard of living.

I could go to your community and probably find meth addicts within a stones throw of your house, maybe the neighbors daughter is in vegas turning tricks- check your six and you’ll find enough garbage to write a book.

I’m sure you could find poverty and substance abuse in my neighborhood.  Unfortunately, that sort of thing is somewhat pervasive.  But you can’t really suggest to me that things in Minot are the same as they are in Belcourt.  You’re delusional if you think that.

Heck, I listen to your political leaders gripe about the conditions on the reservation all the time...when they’re asking for more government money.

I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look for the beauty-it is here. The people are extremely friendly, the land is beautiful, and you’ll find expensive homes that any white elitist would be proud to own.

I don’t doubt that the beauty is there.  Heck, I’ve seen the beauty, and the nice houses.  But that is the exception, and not the rule, and you know it.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 06:58 pm

http://www.hud.gov/news/release.cfm?content=pr02-013nd.cfm

NORTH DAKOTA - The Department of Housing and Urban Development today announced that the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation will be designated a “Renewal Community,” eligible to share in an estimated $17 billion in tax incentives to stimulate job growth, promote economic development and create affordable housing. The 2000 Community Renewal Tax Relief Act established the Renewal Community Initiative that will encourage public-private collaboration to generate economic development in 40 distressed communities around the country.

As a result of this Renewal Community designation, Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation will receive regulatory relief and tax breaks to help local businesses provide more jobs and promote community revitalization.

“These tax incentives will help businesses grow in some of our country’s most challenging communities,” said John Carson, Regional Director of HUD’s Rocky Mountain Region “By creating the incentives that will promote job growth and economic development, we are joining with the private sector to restore economic vitality and restore whole communities in the process.”

Renewal Communities will use the power of public and private partnerships to build a framework of economic revitalization in areas that experience high unemployment and shortages of affordable housing…

These new RCs can take advantage of wage credits, tax deductions, capital gains exclusions and bond financing to stimulate economic development and job growth. Each incentive is tailored to meet the particular needs of a business and offers a significant inducement for companies to locate and hire additional workers.

With an unemployment rate in excess of 30%, nearly 52% of the residents of the Turtle Mountain Community live in poverty and can’t afford basic necessities for their families. By cutting taxes, improving local services and reducing crime, the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation hopes to attract businesses into the 68-square mile area that will make up its Renewal Community.

I think that before these assholes start criticizing Rob for saying that the place is suffering from abject poverty, horrible living conditions, unemployment, etc., perhaps they should contact the tribe and accuse them of lying on their grant applications to HUD.  Or contact HUD and accuse them of fraud for allocating money to:

Belcourt… a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

I assume that you are lobbying HUD as we speak to take their money back since Belcourt doesn’t need it.

Justin B. on April 25, 2007 at 07:23 pm
Avatar for Huma Ahsan

I think you still need to address Mr. Monette’s point that everytime the Indian tribes try to assert their independence (in Turtle Mountain and else where)the non-native governments (U.S. federal government and state governments)have stepped in to deprive Native peoples of economic opportunities that are enjoyed by the Non-natives. 

It seems like your comments suggest that it is time to terminate the soverignty of Indian Nations by cutting all federal dollars going to tribes as if that would be the solution.  You also seem to suggest that Indians should just go and relocate to bigger popuplation centers to find employment. All of these have previously been tried during the termination period- and have failed (please review Menominee Indians history). 

I think before one critizes Turtle Mountain for receiving a Renewal community designation; they should beware of the History of Turtle Mountain.  People should be aware orginially the Turtle Mountain people owned most of Northen ND and down through Grands Forks and Fargo.  I think the readers should also know that there were approximately three to four treaties that were made and as soon as resources were discovered on a piece of Turtle Mountain land - the Federal government took that land back paying Turtle Mountain people as little as ten cents per acre.  Further when whites wanted to build a Railroad - they further cessed Turtle Mountains land and when white farmers complained that those dirty Indian don’t know how to farm (after being given land and no tools or instruction on how to commerically)- the federal government took more Turtle Mountain lands.  In fact, many Turtle Mountain people were loaded up on buses (curteous of the BIA) and transported to Washington, CA and other places.  THis idea of assimlation and termination has not worked in the past.

I understand you concern for Native Peoples, since you nor I are not Native, and our guilty conscience drives this discussion and our need to try to make things better by stating blank statements without considering the history that Native peoples have had with us non-Indians, but after we go back and review this history of what happened when we did proceed with termination of federal programs to Indians through the termindation era will we understand that this approach will not work. 

I think that Turtle Mountain should be designated a Renewal Community and should be allowed to develop their ecomony just as North Dakota and other states have.  The whole idea of a Renewal Community is that it will bring more invest to the Turtle Mountain area and ultimately this will changed the conditions at Turtle Mountain.  And again - this goes back to Mr. Monette’s point - what are tribes and Native peoples to do when they try to bid for companies to locate to the tribes and the state in turns takes these opportunities away.  Just look at the effect gaming has had on Tribes particularly the Ho-chunk who can now create afforded subdivision for their tribal members and who can now because of gaming diverify into other areas.  Prior to gaming, many Indian tribes lived in similar conditions.

So my basic point is - that you have failed to address Mr. Monette’s point- that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain"(as you called them) - why are not you also complaining about the state of North Dakota and other entities take away ecomonic development opportunities from the tribes.  It seems very hypocritical to complain about those “dirty Turtle Mountain Indian (your words)” while your governments ( state and Federal and other non- Native instutitions) rob tribes from developing sustainable ecomonies through a free market place of ideas.

Huma Ahsan on April 25, 2007 at 08:59 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

I think you still need to address Mr. Monette’s point that everytime the Indian tribes try to assert their independence (in Turtle Mountain and else where)the non-native governments (U.S. federal government and state governments)have stepped in to deprive Native peoples of economic opportunities that are enjoyed by the Non-natives.

Well which way to the reservations want it?  Do they want independence, or do they want billions in state and federal tax dollars?  Because that money comes with strings.

If you don’t like the strings, don’t take the money.

So my basic point is - that you have failed to address Mr. Monette’s point- that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain"(as you called them)

I did not once call the Indians at Turtle Mountain “dirty.” Please prove otherwise or retract that libel (which you made more than once) and apologize.

why are not you also complaining about the state of North Dakota and other entities take away ecomonic development opportunities from the tribes

I do.  Constantly.  I’ve written at length about farm subsidies and phony economic development schemes.  With this particular column, however, I was focusing on Indian reservations.

I don’t think I need to talk about every type of inappropriate government spending when I talk about one.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:07 pm
Avatar for myron lafontaine

No Justin,
I will not lobby HUD to take any money back-I am a student and work at a low paying job, but I don’t really care about money-too much. As long as I can pay the bills and enjoy life I am happy. I don’t even really pay that much attention to politics. I’m a happier person if I don’t get involved with politics.
Yes, you can call me an asshole, or delusional, -I don’t care. With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live with a high standard of living for a rural community. There is no difference between you and the Indian down the block from me. He may even be smarter, better looking, and have a better job than you. Racial alienation doesn’t help anyone. You will be challenged at every turn and proven wrong. Your problem is that in using empirical generalizations your opponents can always find examples proving the opposite. Your not as smart as you think. If you really want to help please donate to the turtle mountain tribal scholarship program. You probably think all Indians get free schooling too. Yes, even in Belcourt we pay tuition which cost me 1,000 ducks, not to mention all the other costs associated with school. But, you know I can’t complain. It is a beautiful college. let’s not even talk about how expensive NDSU, UND, or even Minot is for Native Americans. Can someone please throw me a link to where all this free Indian money is-I applied to about 10 scholarships and am still waiting for all my “free Indian Money”. The turtle mountain tribal scholarship program has always come through for me for 1,0000 every semester. I wouldn’t be in school without it.
We have a beautiful, new college and our futures look bright. I stand behind all my previous statements.You can take them apart piece meal and try to discredit them-you will fail. I can smell the venom of your double standards. I will even go as far as to say the standard of living is higher in Belcourt than Minot. I prefer clean air, woods and lakes, fishing, four wheeling, snowmobiling, to heavy traffic,and fast food restaurants. It’s really a matter of opinion-yours is no better than mine. Your mind is made up and I’m not trying to change it. Your 15 hours here in Belcourt provided you what you were looking for-poor, filthy, Indians who don’t know any better. I see things quite a bit different. I am very proud of Belcourt, my community and our school system. Try writing from an objective point of view next time. You are wrong about the living conditions in Belcourt-it is a great place to live.

myron lafontaine on April 25, 2007 at 09:12 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Myron, while you delude yourself about Belcourt the Tribe’s lobbyists are in Bismarck and Washington D.C. pushing accounts of tragic living conditions in order to bring tax dollars back to the res.

Are these people lying?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:15 pm
Avatar for myron lafontaine

thats 1,000 a semester(:

myron lafontaine on April 25, 2007 at 09:15 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Myron, I’m really glad that you’re proud of where you live, but ignoring the very real problems your community has is folly.  Not to mention irresponsible.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 25, 2007 at 09:17 pm
Avatar for myron lafontaine

The irresponsibility is yours. You are on no higher moral ground than we are. Do you process anything other than your loped-sided opinions? It is a rural North Dakota community. There is going to be poverty and high unemployment. Especially with the high population. I have traveled around the world and across the united states for many years. I’m an old
man. Where have you lived? Alaska and North Dakota? I think I’m in a better position to judge standards of living than you are. The truth if you went to school and lived here you would think this is a great place to live.

myron lafontaine on April 25, 2007 at 09:51 pm

Huma Ahsan said, I understand you concern for Native Peoples, since you nor I are not Native, and our guilty conscience drives this discussion...

“Our guilty conscience”? You’re speaking only for yourself there.

...that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain"(as you called them)...

The only one who has called them dirty is you. Go ahead and do a word search on this thread and see for yourself.

Idiot.

myron lafontaine vomits out, Yes, you can call me an asshole, or delusional, -I don’t care. With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is.

Wow. You are delusional.

I guess it is just easier to label someone a racist. It’s sad that an “old man” has yet to learn how to debate like an adult.

likwidshoe on April 25, 2007 at 10:20 pm

It seems like your comments suggest that it is time to terminate the soverignty of Indian Nations by cutting all federal dollars going to tribes as if that would be the solution.

Umm, cutting the funds and the strings attached would be increasing the tribes sovereignty don’t you think?

The larger issue is that Rob wrote that post hoping to create a discussion to lift the standard of living on the reservation.

All we’re getting here is a denial that there is a problem and a demand for more money to fix the nonexistent (as we are told) problem.

That seems strange.

But if more sovereignty would help lift the lives of those on the reservation let’s do it.

I can see some reasons to be defensive.  Nobody likes their problems to be pointed out.  On the other hand how does a problem get fixed if it’s ignored.

And yes there are plenty of problems in other parts of the state.  But from what I can tell the greatest concentration of poverty is on the reservations so it seems like the best place to start.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 05:04 am
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

It is a rural North Dakota community. There is going to be poverty and high unemployment

There is no rural community off the reservation in North Dakota that sees the same level of poverty and unemployment as the reservation does.

I think I’m in a better position to judge standards of living than you are.

Well, your assessment of Belcourt certainly doesn’t jibe with that which we hear from the tribal lobbyists who constantly complain about the conditions on the reservations.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 26, 2007 at 06:11 am

Either Belcourt is a great and wonderful place to live or it is a place filled with poverty and unemployment as well as substandard living conditions.  It is an A. or B. proposition, unless you believe that places filled with poverty, unemployment, and substandard living conditions are a great place to live.

And therein lies the problem.  To those people that are content to merely exist, Belcourt is as good of a place as anywhere.  They are provided with an existence, albeit a poor, unemployed, substandard one that is growing poorer and further behind the rest of the country’s standard of living.  And it isn’t just this one Res.  It is every Res.  Aside from gambling, these reservations have no real industry to speak of.  There are few educated folks with good job skills.  Most have to import non-native teachers for their schools. 

I believe that Rob is challenging the idea that we continue to allow folks to merely exist on the government dole without finding jobs or doing anything simply because of:

our guilty conscience drives this discussion and our need to try to make things better by stating blank statements without considering the history that Native peoples have had with us non-Indians, but after we go back and review this history of what happened when we did proceed with termination of federal programs to Indians through the termindation era will we understand that this approach will not work. 

White guilt only works so long.  Look at African Americans.  They want to claim every bump in the road is because of racism or slavery.  So they deserve Federal programs to pay them back.  They want reparations.

I want Natives to have jobs and be educated and have solid incomes and live in good conditions.  And the Reservation System is most certainly not the solution that provides that.  We need a new solution.

The folks on here arguing for the status quo want the current system only with “redevelopment grants” or HUD money or jobs programs or anti-poverty money.  It is time we recognize that we have already tried every single one of these solutions and until we take radical steps to restructure the nature of the Reservation System or simply eliminate it, the problems will continue to worsen.

Justin B. on April 26, 2007 at 11:04 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

If this issue is to be resolved by appealing to “white guilt” over historical “white privilege,” those making the claim really ought to answer a really basic question:

If white privilege can keep the native American down despite land allocations totalling about a square mile per family, why couldn’t it prevent immigrants from Vietnam and Laos from making a living, when the latter came here with nothing more than the clothes on their backs?  Why didn’t it prevent ethnic minorities from Europe from making it here?  Again, they were also largely penniless when they arrived.

Robert Perry on April 26, 2007 at 02:30 pm

Your article, Mr. Port, offends me not only as a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa, but it offends me as an educator and as a human being.  After reading your article, I phoned Mr. Cates.  He readily assured me that you wrote the article because “your heart is in the right place”. 

I find that hard to believe considering the generalization that was done.  My offense does not come from the denial that you and others seem to point out.  I will be the first to admit that the living conditions are terrible for SOME people, alcohol and drugs are abused and sold by SOME people, and SOME parents/guardians don’t take care of their children the way they deserve to be taken care of.  This is not the case for all the people who live the on the reservation.  However, you imply that it is.  You imply there is nothing on the reservation, but poor Indians who live in poor housing conditions and raise children who are not able to do anything but continue the cycle.  If this article was truly from your heart, where are the positive things that are on the reservation?  You talk nothing of the school and how most of the teachers who work there are from the reservation and enrolled band members, of how many students have graduated from high school and have gone to college, graduated, and are successful not only on the reservation, but off.  You say nothing of the hospital who also has a large portion of its employees who are Indian providing health care to those who need it.  You say nothing of St. Ann’s, our church, which has been a center of the community since it was built and has brought faith, hope, and love to people who desparately need it. 

There might be many people who don’t make enough money to be considered above the poverty line, but continue to live on the reservation is because it is home, a beautiful home.  It is a place where there is tradition and culture.  It is where family is and no matter where you live, you can always come back and you will be home.  Who are you to decide that Mr. Lafountain is “delusional” about the Turtle Mountains being beautiful?  Why isn’t he as entitled to an opinion as you are?  Do you honestly believe because you spent 15 hours on the reservation that you have somehow come to know all there is to know about the reservation, good and bad?  Enough to not only write an article about it, but to tell the people who have lived there for their entire lives that it is a bad place to live.
My family has lived on the reservation since it became a reservation.  We are proud of who we are and where we come from.  We certainly don’t need someone whose “heart is in the right place” telling us that where we come from is not beautiful.  It is beautiful.  My heart fills with happiness when I go home and it fills with sadness when I leave.  I don’t think the Turtle Mountains are perfect, far from it.  But it is my home and you, a non-Indian with your “heart in the right place” can keep your heart and your judgements.  Because I don’t want it or need it.  I don’t believe that you are a racist, Mr. Port.  I believe you are a person who says they are trying to make things better and improve the living of the poor Indians because you know more than us.  At the same time you belittle and undermine the good and positive that has been occurring and will continue to occur in spite of you and those like you.

Rae Villebrun
Proud Member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 05:13 pm

Rob has admitted that he should have pointed out that the conditions he highlighted on the reservation do not apply to all residents.

That being said how does it help the residents by pretending that things don’t need to be improved?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 05:24 pm

I should have said how does it help the reservations by attacking the person a person who says we should improve the conditions there?

Oh yeah, how did Rob belittle the progress you’ve made?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 05:29 pm

Yes, he did admit that it didn’t apply to everyone.  However, he failed to mention that in the article.

I don’t believe I was attacking anyone.  I was stating my opinion just like you do and he does. 

The belittling occurred when there was no mention of anything good that is part of the reservation.  He provided a one sided picture of the reservation to his readers.  For those people who have never been to Belcourt or are not familiar with Indians, it continues to perpetuate the stereotype of the poor Indians who continue to live off the government because they don’t know any better.  In my comment, I chose to show another side.

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 05:50 pm

maybe he could have mentioned it in the article, and I suspect he will in the followup.

But with the short amount of time and space to do the article he talked about what he’d like to see changed.

My normal smart alec self would normally have written that you don’t want to see those things changed.  But since you probably wouldn’t have seen my sarcasm I’ll say that everyone wants to see the reservation lifted out of poverty.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 05:57 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Rae Marie,

I will be the first to admit that the living conditions are terrible for SOME people, alcohol and drugs are abused and sold by SOME people, and SOME parents/guardians don’t take care of their children the way they deserve to be taken care of.  This is not the case for all the people who live the on the reservation.

Did I say those things were the case for all people on the reservation, or is that just something you came up with on your own?

I’ll answer my own question and point out that I didn’t say that, and would assume that it is your own defensiveness which leads you to say that I did.

I can’t help that you’re sensitive about the conditions that exist on the reservation.  All I did in my column was tell the truth.

I understand that Indians suffer thanks to a lot of stereotypes, but the truth is the truth and I’m not about to turn a blind eye to a tragic situation simply to spare your feelings.

How about, instead of coming after me for my column, we talk about how things on the reservation can be fixed?


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 26, 2007 at 06:12 pm

it continues to perpetuate the stereotype of the poor Indians who continue to live off the government because they don’t know any better.

That is not a stereotype.  That is reality for a significant portion of the residents.  And it isn’t because they don’t know any better, it is because they can.  63% Unemployment in a state with 3% unemployment.  Now, the sad part is that the stereotype is perpetuated by the other Indians that do live off the government and don’t know any better.  Not by Rob for pointing it out.  It is a stereotype I would like to see eliminated, but the only way to eliminate it is to reduce the number of Indians that live off the government and don’t know any better.  And that is why Rob wrote the article.  He wants to reduce that number and it is obvious that the current state of the reservation system is not doing that.

To point out the problems on the reservation is not racist or stereotypical.  You take some colorblind person and have them objectively look at the Res compared to the rest of North Dakota based on income, employment, education, poverty, and so on, and they will come to the same conclusion.  Or further, to travel to every single Res in the country and find the commonality.  And every one of them has the same issues.  Poverty, unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse, diabetes… Not that Indians ARE INHERENTLY lazy or worthless or stupid, but rather that the current reservation system is allowing BEHAVIOR that is lazy and stupid.  It encourages it.

Why does this have anything to do with race?  Why does it imply that there aren’t good hardworking Indians and good hard working people on the Res?  There are.  We could talk about the 37% that have jobs or the folks that don’t live in filth.  This is not to say that they don’t exist.  It is to say that pointing out success stories does nothing to address the problem.  You have to take a good hard honest look at the Res and see the problems and fix them, not try to diminish them by pointing out the success stories.  Let’s talk about the problems and how to fix them, not gloss over them and attack Rob for not saying how beautiful Belcourt is and how many hard working folks there are.

Justin B. on April 26, 2007 at 06:20 pm

Like I said before, you implied. 
I am defending because it is worth defending.  I never said you weren’t telling the truth.  I said you painted a one sided picture.
I don’t believe I was coming after your column.  For some reason, you think you know more about reservation life than those who live there.  And since you want to talk about how things might be fixed, let’s talk.

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 06:24 pm
Rob
Rob
17844 comments
Send a private message

Like I said before, you implied. 

I implied, or your defensiveness is clouding your vision?

For some reason, you think you know more about reservation life than those who live there.

Never said that either.  I just wrote about what I saw.  But I have spent quite a bit of time on the reservations over the years.  Visited the people there.  Been in their homes.  Drove the roads.  Patronized the businesses.  I know more than enough for my opinions.

And since you want to talk about how things might be fixed, let’s talk.

Absolutely.

When i look at the reservation I see a whole demographic of people who have been made almost entirely dependent on the government.  A majority of the population on the reservation is unemployed, meaning that these people are dependent upon the government for day-to-day living.  Most of the jobs that are available involve working for the tribe/government and/or casino, so among those who work most of them can’t speak out to criticize the status quo lest they be fired from their job or otherwise penalized by the powers that be.

This is an example of socialism not unlike Soviet-era Russia, if perhaps not as extreme as that historical example.

What you need on the reservation is more independence, and I think the only way that’s going to happen is if the reservations are ended and Native Americans are embraced as simply American citizens like the rest of us.

This would end the welfare state on the reservation.  Right now the reservation, with it’s offers of entitlements and such, acts as a magnet which keeps the Indians close.  Keeps them from going elsewhere to find employment and their fortune.  Ultimately keeps them from being successful.  If the reservation didn’t exist Indians would go where the jobs were in order to survive.

This would give them the impetus they need to lift themselves out of poverty and grab a piece of the pie for themselves.

Now I know this probably offends your sensibilities, but this is the truth as I see it.  The reservation creates a welfare state that keeps the Indians down.  If you want to lift your people out of poverty, demand an end to the welfare state.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on April 26, 2007 at 06:39 pm

Why is it that because I disagree with Rob that I am attacking him? You are right.  Change does need to happen, but it isn’t going to happen because a person who isn’t Indian says that things need to change.  If that were the case, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.  Many have taken a good, honest look at reservation life and are making gains towards changing. 
Pointing out the success stories provides role models and motivation for more people. Through these successes, there is hope that change can happen for all those who are Indian or non-Indian whether they live on the reservation or not.
I don’t diminish the problems nor the success stories.  I work every day to educate children in hopes they make good choices and are able to be responsible for them.  It is through these children that the life Rob talks about will no longer exist, but it won’t happen overnight.
Again, why is it wrong for us to believe that the reservation is a beautiful place?  Beauty doesn’t only exist in homes and yard.  It also exists in people.

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 06:49 pm

Pointing out the success stories provides role models and motivation for more people. Through these successes, there is hope that change can happen for all those who are Indian or non-Indian whether they live on the reservation or not.

I’ll agree that successful role models are of fundamental importance.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 06:52 pm

What are saying doesn’t offend my sensibilities.  You have the right to your opinion.

It sounds like a good plan.  However, it hasn’t worked for all the other people who still live on the government, aren’t Indian and don’t live on the reservation.

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 06:54 pm

Rae, how many folks get an education and find success off of the reservation?  (I’m sure they still consider it home just like my family that’s moved consider ND home)


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 26, 2007 at 07:08 pm
Avatar for RaeMarie70

Belcourt is in a unique position because it has a two year college on the reservation.  Through the college, other colleges/universities have offered 4 year programs.  Because of this, many people have graduated with 2 and 4 year degrees.  Unfortunately, not all reservations have colleges.
When working on my thesis and trying to figure out a topic, I researched how many people graduated from college.  The numbers were low.  Native Americans have one of the lowest graduation rates.  But, it is improving.
Being successful off the reservation is a reality for many Indians.  With over 30,000 band members, a majority of enrollees don’t live in Belcourt.  I would have to guess that most of them must be successful or they would move home.  I could be wrong, too.

RaeMarie70 on April 26, 2007 at 07:25 pm
Avatar for myron lafontaine

rob

Again, I don’t care if you call me delusional, vomiting, or an asshole. If you need derogatory terms to empower your weak positions-more power to ya. A call to terminate reservations? And what are all these cradle-to-grave entitlements that must end. Am I supposed to be getting something that I’m not. You haven’t done a stitch of research on the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians- have you?
Why is your journalism so obtuse and less than perceptive? You made a road trip to the east cluster-with which you have made sweeping generalizations. You could have had an insightful article showing all the shades of success and the lack of it in Belcourt. You could have examined housing from the east clusters to the many beautiful houses in Belcourt. There wasn’t an ounce of objectivity in your article. It was however instead laced with malice and contempt. Did you interview any community leaders? Business leaders? Teachers? Anyone? Honestly what type of research did you do before you wrote your article? Do you research any of your articles or don’t you care about journalistic integrity? What’s interesting is that the pro-Native
responses above are intelligent and articulate while
the anti-Native responses are demeaning with hints of empirical generalizations, and stereotypes. Brain power wise I would have to chalk one up for the Natives on this board. Mess with Belcourt and you are messing with the best.
Again I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look objectively at the many shades that make up the diverse and beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation.

myron lafontaine on April 26, 2007 at 10:51 pm

What’s interesting is that the pro-Native
responses above are intelligent and articulate...

“Intelligent and articulate” equals making up quotes and going on about elitist, white superiority?

WOW!! No kidding. We have different definitions of what it means to be intelligent and articulate. I use the dictionary definitions. I’m not sure what you’re using.

Brain power wise I would have to chalk one up for the Natives on this board.

Says the person who accuses people of racism with no basis.

Mess with Belcourt and you are messing with the best.

What? Get out of here! Most of you guys don’t even have jobs. You need a new definition of what it means to be the best.

likwidshoe on April 26, 2007 at 11:00 pm

One more thing…

...while the anti-Native responses…

What “anti-Native responses”? Nobody here is against the Indians. We’re against the Indian reservations as they are currently run.

Let me know if that important point needs spelled out again.

It’s amazing. You were going on about being “intelligent and articulate” and yet you missed the obvious. Perhaps a trip to the local college for a remedial English comprehension course would do you well.

likwidshoe on April 26, 2007 at 11:09 pm

There are three main issues that must be addressed when dealing with impoverished regions:

1) Improving the rule of law,
2) Removal of entitlement barriers,
3) The removal of politicians who gain from a large entitlement class (that is a sub-population who are wholly or mostly dependent on entitlement programs).

In poor regions of the US, whether they be on certain reservations such as Turtle Mountain, or places like the Mississippi Delta, you find a breakdown of the rule of law (e.g., corruption, inconsistent or selective law enforcement, etc) and you find a large entitlement class.  On the Delta this entitlement class is partly created by fraudulent disability claims btw. 

Politicians also play a role in maintaining the status quo, since they rely on votes from the entitlement class to stay in office.  Never vote for somebody to “save you,” he’ll probably make a career out of it.

Carrick on April 26, 2007 at 11:55 pm

I don’t care if you call me delusional, vomiting, or an asshole.

Rob hasn’t called anyone that.

Myron what has he said besides saying that he feels bad for those people on the reservation living in poverty, expressing concern for them and suggesting that the blame lies with the federal government?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on April 27, 2007 at 05:39 am

There wasn’t an ounce of objectivity in your article. It was however instead laced with malice and contempt. Did you interview any community leaders? Business leaders? Teachers? Anyone? Honestly what type of research did you do before you wrote your article? Do you research any of your articles or don’t you care about journalistic integrity? What’s interesting is that the pro-Native responses above are intelligent and articulate while the anti-Native responses are demeaning with hints of empirical generalizations, and stereotypes.

Fist, Rob writes op-ed pieces, which is what this was.  Perhaps you confuse journalism with having an opinion because journalists never make opinion statements, only provide facts… wait, isn’t that what journalist do?  What kind of objectivity do you expect in an op-ed piece?  Rob made empirical observations of the poverty rate and the unemployment rate and use these quantitative measures to come to the conclusion that something drastic needs to be done to improve conditions and then offered opinions on what that should be.

The “pro-native responses” have been things like this:

I am a resident of Belcourt, ND-It is in the beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation. I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed. I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact… Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

High standard of living--maybe for the 37% that have jobs and the less than 50% that don’t live in poverty.

With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live with a high standard of living for a rural community. There is no difference between you and the Indian down the block from me. He may even be smarter, better looking, and have a better job than you. Racial alienation doesn’t help anyone. You will be challenged at every turn and proven wrong. Your problem is that in using empirical generalizations your opponents can always find examples proving the opposite… I can smell the venom of your double standards. I will even go as far as to say the standard of living is higher in Belcourt than Minot.

Do you even understand the word “empirical”?  So what you are saying is that Rob makes observations based on experience or verifiable facts and figures like unemployment rates, but that these facts and figures do not take into account that you can find exceptions to the 63% unemployment rate and the 50% poverty rate.  Then you offer the nugget that because the air is clean and the area is beautiful, that Belcourt enjoys a higher standard of living than Minot that has a 3% unemployment rate, 25% of the people have Bachelor’s degrees, and the poverty rate is 12%.

http://local.reply.com/real-estate/ND/minot.html
http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/north-dakota/minot/

Dude, get a clue.  Empirical observations indeed.  If you judge standard of living as being able to sit on your ass, live without having a job, and breathe fresh air, you are right, Belcourt is better than Minot.

Justin B. on April 27, 2007 at 07:39 am

What’s interesting is that the pro-Native responses above are intelligent and articulate…