Say Anything Blog

Wow.  I have been involved in a debate over the “Religious Freedom” of the Navajo tribe and their desire to control the fate of the local ski area (on non-reservation land) outside of Flagstaff at my own site.

Here is a sampling of the mail I get when I disagree that Indians are not entitled to special preferential treatment of their religion from one of the enlightened Libs that thinks they need “repaid” for past sins of our ancestors or that they need taken care of because they are defenseless:

However, from your telling of the recent Casino situation, global warming, to your details about the Arizona Snowbowl case, its very clear you have never studied anything related to ecological functionality, culture, the history of the US, and specifically Native American History.

Sir, your racism is reminiscent of the civil rights movement in the 60’s. You are one of the micro-reasons racism still exists as your white supremaced attitude leaks through almost every article I’ve read on your blog in the last couple of hours.

I’ll see what my SOAN 630/680 class thinks of this blog in the coming week or two as we may focus a case study on your particular blog as a real world example of neo-colonialism, as well as bounce this off the others at the environmental justice center in Washington that I work with specifically to address such issues as you raise in these articles.

Perhaps we’ll be in contact in the future. Until then I hope your readers distinguish the horrendous hateful tone you express in this blog through the beauty that is skiing, and readers recognize that this perspective is no more than ultra right wing conservative GW Bush type propaganda, hidden under a veil of skiing, creating a neo-colonial platform for white folks to continue to hate Indians so YOU CAN GO SKIING (!?).

We have a system that allows this group of people to continue to demand more and more from government.  Every time someone sees horrible conditions on the Res, the Lib answer is to give more money to them to help lift them from poverty.  In this case, they don’t own the ski resort, the land is Forest Service land, and the Indians want the government to ignore the property rights of the resort in favor of their religious freedom.  We owe them that since we stole the entire country from them in the first place.

Every piece of land given to them has been littered with trash.  They ignore environmental practices the rest of us are forced to endure.  They are a third world country unto themselves.  And imagine them firing up smokestacks of coal power plants because they are exempt from Kyoto and profiteering from that loophole just like they do casinos.  It isn’t that much of a stretch.

Rob—I agree that the conditions on the reservations is atrocious and brings shame on us all—not for what was done years ago, but for what we continue to do.  We keep putting money into a failing system and keep enabling the dependent behavior and lack of personal responsibility.  Two books I read in the last year or so deal with the dependency of the black community on the programs that are to achieve equal opportunity.  The one that is so much like the Indian situation is by Thomas Sowell and the title escapes me—it’s a recent book.  The second is by John McWhorter, called Losing the Race—he has written several on the problems in the black community.
Both writers examine the culture as it is anti-learning, anti-white, and devoid of responsible behavior.
Good luck with your piece.  By the way, I had a conversation with Margaret Sitte about this at the Cates party last fall.  She could give you some insight into the family/social problems that seem to be prevalent within the Indian community.
Hal Neff

Hal, thanks for the support.  Comments and emails are rolling in from up there.  There are a lot of people upset, but I think there are a lot of people who have had their eyes opened a bit too.

Maybe this will make a difference.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Two words: Collective Guilt. This may lead to other atrocities as described in Thomas Sowell’s Aftermath of the 1960s at Townhall.

I read your original post when it came out.  Being a Native NY City resident, I can’t seem to see where it is our problem whether they live in filth or kill each other.  I thought that Indian Reservation are sovereign.  Doesn’t that mean I don’t have to care? Indian Reservations are like zoo.  Interest place to go and take pictures, and then leave.

I certainly don’t think the reservations are a “zoo.”  I think the folks on the Indian reservations are Americans who need to be brought into the mainstream.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Sir:

You are correct that the current system has empowered dependencies in Mackinaw Wajiw (Turtle Mountain).

  1) The State of North Dakota unlawfully imposes a tax on sales of gasoline and heating fuels on the reservations; so when Mackinaw Wajiw tries to impose its own gasoline tax, the State fights it.  Sovereigns like North Dakota survive off revenue gained from taxes; but the State uses everything in its power to disallow the sovereign Tribe from doing the same, even in the face of established law.  I personally proposed a gasoline tax agreement to Governor Hoeven, but he steadfastly declined to agree.  How could Governor Hoeven act that way in the face of the kind of inhumane social ills you point out?  (Of course, you would have no fodder for your diatribe if your leader, Governor Hoeven, didn’t act that way.)

  2) The State and its political subdivisions, the counties, impose property taxes on so-called “fee” land within the reservation.  I own fee land on the reservation, and what do I get for my State taxes?  My road is never snow-plowed or maintained in any way; the Tribe’s utility administers the water and sewer; my taxes revenue funds off-reservation schools.  Governor Hoeven only scoffed at the idea that the on-reservation property taxes ought to go to the Tribe, which in turn might consider taxing all lands on the reservation, in turn infusing the Tribe’s property owners with the sense of responsibility and community you say they lack.  Hmmm … why can’t those Tribes be sovereign just because we tax their land as soon as the landowner is capable of paying taxes?  Hmmm.

  3) When a company from Winnipeg finds that North Dakota’s economy – specifically labor costs - has made its Town of Pembina operations unprofitable, the Tribe offers cheaper labor, a certain by-product of the poverty you highlight.  In response, Governor Hoeven and the State then offer tax and other incentives to keep the company away from the Tribe and to remain in the Town of Pembina.  Did you mention entitlements?  Paying public revenues to support a private entity is communism.  I guess Governor Hoeven is used to that, given that he is a former President of the Bank of North Dakota, a STATE-OWNED bank; the center-piece of a communist system.  It’s one thing to own a State mill or State insurance company – but a BANK?  Now that’s communism.  Governor Hoeven likes to claim that reservation Indians are his citizens too, but he clearly has his first class citizens – off the reservation – and his second class citizens on the reservation.  How can he and North Dakotans act that way in the face of the Tribe’s grinding poverty and social ills to which you refer?

  4) The Tribe attempts to build a nursing home, for short term construction work, then long-term care-provider jobs, let alone being able to keep their elders at home to keep their society intact, instead of sending them to ten different nursing homes in North Dakota to keep the State’s economy afloat.  True to form, the State of North Dakota fought the Tribe with the most deceitful of machinations.  Like you, Governor Hoeven and the people of the State Legislature and government acted like the Tribe’s people were too stupid to understand.  But I did understand such political machinations, having worked on US Capitol Hill and high in the US executive branch.  But the real problem is why I and the Tribe’s people expect the worst every time we attempt to deal with Governor Hoeven North Dakota or to assert our own sovereignty to alleviate the grinding poverty and social ills to which you refer.

As a resident of the Turtle Mountain Reservation I have seen some of what you speak of…people who don’t care…people who live in squalor…and people who do not take personal responsibility for their lives and situation.  You need to not be so general and cast such a wide net, however, and make it seem that this is true of all reservation homes and reservation residents.

I am a college educated person (B.A. and M.S. degrees), have been employed very gainfully for years, and do not abuse drugs or “live off the system”.  There are hundreds and hundreds of people like me on the reservation. 

What you should be saying is that poor choices and conditions are not caused by the reservation, but are problems that need to be changed.  This change should be coming from within the reservation system, but the tribal government does not utilize its best and brightest to help solve these problems.  Instead, like all politicians, tribal government would rather garner votes from the electorate through handouts and other actions that perpetuate dependence and do not encourage self-sufficiency, rather than make tough choices.

Your article comes off a bit racist in its generalities.  I don’t think you mean to come off this way, but I can see why people would be angry.

Remember…when you assume you make an ass out of U and ME.

Richard,

I’ll be willing to listen to arguments about “sovereign” reservation states when the reservations aren’t spending millions of federal tax dollars.

Sovereign means independent, and in no way, shape or form are the reservations independent.

Kade,

What, specifically, in my article was “a bit racist?”  I’d be interested in knowing.  I’ll cop to being blunt in my assessment of the situation, and Ill also confess to perhaps not spending enough time explaining that not everyone on the reservation lives as I described, but “racist” is an accusation that is over the line.

If I were racist and didn’t care about Indians, or hated them, I would forget that the reservations exist and let the conditions there go on unnoticed.

You can’t call me racist for caring.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

I own fee land on the reservation, and what do I get for my State taxes?

Hey common ground! 

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Richard, I’m not dismissive of your points though.  When you talk of your property taxes not going to your local schools, I’m sympathetic to that.

But can we agree that the problem on the res. is entirely too much dependence on the government?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Kade, all you’ve proven is that you’re one of the 37% (or whatever) with jobs.  An anecdote proves nothing beyond the fact that an anecdote occurred.

And when you blame “tribal government,” are you not in part blaming yourself?  Those leaders ARE elected, after all.

I’ll make a humble attempt to simplify Rob’s point; sometimes it is a good thing when people are allowed to suffer the consequences of their actions.  In the words of Scripture, if a man will not work, neither shall he eat.

And certainly we’d do well to eliminate some of the Mickey Mouse stuff listed by Mr. Monette.  However, Rob’s got a great point that real progress is going to start when people start doing the basics.  Nobody’s going to bring jobs to an area where it’s obvious people don’t take care of themselves.

Another problem with the reservations is that they provide an artificial incentive for people to stay where there isn’t enough economic activity to employ them.

The reservations are where they are, and the Indians stay there because there’s entitlements and other government incentives to be had by doing so.  But what incentive is there for economic activity?

Jobs don’t always go where the people are.  Sometimes people have to go where the jobs are.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob,

I agree with alot of what you say in this article of reservation poverty. But though it may be history, history is what got the Indian Reservations to the state we are in. Also you mentioned the unemployment rate of North Dakota in general. Well let’s take a good solid look at that issue you and alot of non-natives complain about government money being spent on welfare and other government subsidy programs being afforded to us, not once have any of you mentioned or speak of the farmers and ranchers who get monies from the same tax dollars that you are refering too. Individuals in agriculture get $100,000.00’s of dollars while the majority of Natives only get $3,000.00 - $10,000.00 annually.

So, if you are going to be a messanger please send a complete message about everyone not just the poverty stricken.

Let’s not forget while the nation was in a great Depression and non-natives were lined up at food lines and living in substandard situations, we here at Fort Berthold Indian Reservation were thriving while we lived in the bottomlands. That is until the Army Corps of Engineers took the bottom lands from us and moved us out and then made us dependant upon government subsidies that we were once throwing away.

I could go on and on as I’m sure you could but that is not going to solve anything. So, now that we know what the problem is (poverty); if you truly care as you say you do, than help us come up with an amicable solution to this atrocious state we are in.

Thank you for caring,

Respectfully,

Lyle Gwin

Lyle, thanks for the comment.

ell let’s take a good solid look at that issue you and alot of non-natives complain about government money being spent on welfare and other government subsidy programs being afforded to us, not once have any of you mentioned or speak of the farmers and ranchers who get monies from the same tax dollars that you are refering too. Individuals in agriculture get $100,000.00’s of dollars while the majority of Natives only get $3,000.00 - $10,000.00 annually.

I didn’t mention farm subsidies in that specific column, but I have spent a lot of time being very critical of farm subsidies.  I don’t support them at all.  I didn’t mention them in the column because the column wasn’t about farmers.

That is until the Army Corps of Engineers took the bottom lands from us and moved us out and then made us dependant upon government subsidies that we were once throwing away.

There is no doubt that the Indians haven’t always gotten a raw deal, but I’m trying to look forward and not backward.  I like what you’re saying about being “made…dependent upon government subsidies.”  I think we should be working toward making the reservations independent of the government.

So you and I are on the same page there.

if you truly care as you say you do, than help us come up with an amicable solution to this atrocious state we are in.

That’s what I was trying to do with this column, but people keep calling me a racist and getting all defensive because I’m talking about the things I saw.

The first step is raising awareness, and I don’t think a lot of people who live away from the reservations are aware of just how bad things have gotten on them.  So I wrote the column to inform them, and to point out that there is a better way.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Actually, the problem isn’t poverty, Lyle.  If it were, we should have expected the worst conditions to be found among immigrants from Asia and so on, who didn’t even have BAD land to start on.  That’s simply not the case; the most wretched conditions are consistently found among those who have been dependent on welfare for a couple of generations.

To use Ft. Berthold as an example, that reservation has about 250 acres per resident, more or less a square mile per family.  Are you seriously claiming that people cannot make a living with that amount of resources, including a wonderful lake? 

There are an awful lot of people who would like to be that “poor” and “without opportunity,” friend.  The trouble is not that people don’t have opportunity.  It’s that they don’t take it.

Well said, Robert.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob,
I am a resident of Belcourt, ND-It is in the beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation. I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed. I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact. Walls dripping with nicotine-nice touch. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living. When you were stuck in our squalor of filth did you notice anything beautiful. I could go to your community and probably find meth addicts within a stones throw of your house, maybe the neighbors daughter is in vegas turning tricks- check your six and you’ll find enough garbage to write a book. You will find whatever you are looking for and you were looking for filth. I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look for the beauty-it is here. The people are extremely friendly, the land is beautiful, and you’ll find expensive homes that any white elitist would be proud to own. Shoot I’ll even invite you to my house-bring a white glove if you want.

You guys should talk to the people that are lobbying Congress for more money for the reservations.  Those guys are saying that things are so bad you need tons more money.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed.

Then your eyes must not be open.  Ever heard of the “old housing” development?  The “east cluster?”  Places like that?

They’re bad.  Really, really bad.

I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact.

White superiority?  Where in my column did I even suggest that whites were superior to Indians?  And for that matter, how do you even know that I’m white?

Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

There are nice places in Belcourt, but to call it a “beautiful place with a high standard of living” is more than a little bit of a farce.  There’s 60% unemployment in Belcourt.  That’s not a high standard of living.

I could go to your community and probably find meth addicts within a stones throw of your house, maybe the neighbors daughter is in vegas turning tricks- check your six and you’ll find enough garbage to write a book.

I’m sure you could find poverty and substance abuse in my neighborhood.  Unfortunately, that sort of thing is somewhat pervasive.  But you can’t really suggest to me that things in Minot are the same as they are in Belcourt.  You’re delusional if you think that.

Heck, I listen to your political leaders gripe about the conditions on the reservation all the time…when they’re asking for more government money.

I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look for the beauty-it is here. The people are extremely friendly, the land is beautiful, and you’ll find expensive homes that any white elitist would be proud to own.

I don’t doubt that the beauty is there.  Heck, I’ve seen the beauty, and the nice houses.  But that is the exception, and not the rule, and you know it.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

http://www.hud.gov/news/release.cfm?content=pr02-013nd.cfm

NORTH DAKOTA - The Department of Housing and Urban Development today announced that the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation will be designated a “Renewal Community,” eligible to share in an estimated $17 billion in tax incentives to stimulate job growth, promote economic development and create affordable housing. The 2000 Community Renewal Tax Relief Act established the Renewal Community Initiative that will encourage public-private collaboration to generate economic development in 40 distressed communities around the country.

As a result of this Renewal Community designation, Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation will receive regulatory relief and tax breaks to help local businesses provide more jobs and promote community revitalization.

“These tax incentives will help businesses grow in some of our country’s most challenging communities,” said John Carson, Regional Director of HUD’s Rocky Mountain Region “By creating the incentives that will promote job growth and economic development, we are joining with the private sector to restore economic vitality and restore whole communities in the process.”

Renewal Communities will use the power of public and private partnerships to build a framework of economic revitalization in areas that experience high unemployment and shortages of affordable housing…

These new RCs can take advantage of wage credits, tax deductions, capital gains exclusions and bond financing to stimulate economic development and job growth. Each incentive is tailored to meet the particular needs of a business and offers a significant inducement for companies to locate and hire additional workers.

With an unemployment rate in excess of 30%, nearly 52% of the residents of the Turtle Mountain Community live in poverty and can’t afford basic necessities for their families. By cutting taxes, improving local services and reducing crime, the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation hopes to attract businesses into the 68-square mile area that will make up its Renewal Community.

I think that before these assholes start criticizing Rob for saying that the place is suffering from abject poverty, horrible living conditions, unemployment, etc., perhaps they should contact the tribe and accuse them of lying on their grant applications to HUD.  Or contact HUD and accuse them of fraud for allocating money to:

Belcourt… a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

I assume that you are lobbying HUD as we speak to take their money back since Belcourt doesn’t need it.

I think you still need to address Mr. Monette’s point that everytime the Indian tribes try to assert their independence (in Turtle Mountain and else where)the non-native governments (U.S. federal government and state governments)have stepped in to deprive Native peoples of economic opportunities that are enjoyed by the Non-natives. 

It seems like your comments suggest that it is time to terminate the soverignty of Indian Nations by cutting all federal dollars going to tribes as if that would be the solution.  You also seem to suggest that Indians should just go and relocate to bigger popuplation centers to find employment. All of these have previously been tried during the termination period- and have failed (please review Menominee Indians history). 

I think before one critizes Turtle Mountain for receiving a Renewal community designation; they should beware of the History of Turtle Mountain.  People should be aware orginially the Turtle Mountain people owned most of Northen ND and down through Grands Forks and Fargo.  I think the readers should also know that there were approximately three to four treaties that were made and as soon as resources were discovered on a piece of Turtle Mountain land - the Federal government took that land back paying Turtle Mountain people as little as ten cents per acre.  Further when whites wanted to build a Railroad - they further cessed Turtle Mountains land and when white farmers complained that those dirty Indian don’t know how to farm (after being given land and no tools or instruction on how to commerically)- the federal government took more Turtle Mountain lands.  In fact, many Turtle Mountain people were loaded up on buses (curteous of the BIA) and transported to Washington, CA and other places.  THis idea of assimlation and termination has not worked in the past.

I understand you concern for Native Peoples, since you nor I are not Native, and our guilty conscience drives this discussion and our need to try to make things better by stating blank statements without considering the history that Native peoples have had with us non-Indians, but after we go back and review this history of what happened when we did proceed with termination of federal programs to Indians through the termindation era will we understand that this approach will not work. 

I think that Turtle Mountain should be designated a Renewal Community and should be allowed to develop their ecomony just as North Dakota and other states have.  The whole idea of a Renewal Community is that it will bring more invest to the Turtle Mountain area and ultimately this will changed the conditions at Turtle Mountain.  And again - this goes back to Mr. Monette’s point - what are tribes and Native peoples to do when they try to bid for companies to locate to the tribes and the state in turns takes these opportunities away.  Just look at the effect gaming has had on Tribes particularly the Ho-chunk who can now create afforded subdivision for their tribal members and who can now because of gaming diverify into other areas.  Prior to gaming, many Indian tribes lived in similar conditions.

So my basic point is - that you have failed to address Mr. Monette’s point- that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain”(as you called them) - why are not you also complaining about the state of North Dakota and other entities take away ecomonic development opportunities from the tribes.  It seems very hypocritical to complain about those “dirty Turtle Mountain Indian (your words)” while your governments ( state and Federal and other non- Native instutitions) rob tribes from developing sustainable ecomonies through a free market place of ideas.

I think you still need to address Mr. Monette’s point that everytime the Indian tribes try to assert their independence (in Turtle Mountain and else where)the non-native governments (U.S. federal government and state governments)have stepped in to deprive Native peoples of economic opportunities that are enjoyed by the Non-natives.

Well which way to the reservations want it?  Do they want independence, or do they want billions in state and federal tax dollars?  Because that money comes with strings.

If you don’t like the strings, don’t take the money.

So my basic point is - that you have failed to address Mr. Monette’s point- that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain”(as you called them)

I did not once call the Indians at Turtle Mountain “dirty.”  Please prove otherwise or retract that libel (which you made more than once) and apologize.

why are not you also complaining about the state of North Dakota and other entities take away ecomonic development opportunities from the tribes

I do.  Constantly.  I’ve written at length about farm subsidies and phony economic development schemes.  With this particular column, however, I was focusing on Indian reservations.

I don’t think I need to talk about every type of inappropriate government spending when I talk about one.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

No Justin,
I will not lobby HUD to take any money back-I am a student and work at a low paying job, but I don’t really care about money-too much. As long as I can pay the bills and enjoy life I am happy. I don’t even really pay that much attention to politics. I’m a happier person if I don’t get involved with politics.
Yes, you can call me an asshole, or delusional, -I don’t care. With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live with a high standard of living for a rural community. There is no difference between you and the Indian down the block from me. He may even be smarter, better looking, and have a better job than you. Racial alienation doesn’t help anyone. You will be challenged at every turn and proven wrong. Your problem is that in using empirical generalizations your opponents can always find examples proving the opposite. Your not as smart as you think. If you really want to help please donate to the turtle mountain tribal scholarship program. You probably think all Indians get free schooling too. Yes, even in Belcourt we pay tuition which cost me 1,000 ducks, not to mention all the other costs associated with school. But, you know I can’t complain. It is a beautiful college. let’s not even talk about how expensive NDSU, UND, or even Minot is for Native Americans. Can someone please throw me a link to where all this free Indian money is-I applied to about 10 scholarships and am still waiting for all my “free Indian Money”. The turtle mountain tribal scholarship program has always come through for me for 1,0000 every semester. I wouldn’t be in school without it.
We have a beautiful, new college and our futures look bright. I stand behind all my previous statements.You can take them apart piece meal and try to discredit them-you will fail. I can smell the venom of your double standards. I will even go as far as to say the standard of living is higher in Belcourt than Minot. I prefer clean air, woods and lakes, fishing, four wheeling, snowmobiling, to heavy traffic,and fast food restaurants. It’s really a matter of opinion-yours is no better than mine. Your mind is made up and I’m not trying to change it. Your 15 hours here in Belcourt provided you what you were looking for-poor, filthy, Indians who don’t know any better. I see things quite a bit different. I am very proud of Belcourt, my community and our school system. Try writing from an objective point of view next time. You are wrong about the living conditions in Belcourt-it is a great place to live.

Myron, while you delude yourself about Belcourt the Tribe’s lobbyists are in Bismarck and Washington D.C. pushing accounts of tragic living conditions in order to bring tax dollars back to the res.

Are these people lying?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

thats 1,000 a semester(:

Myron, I’m really glad that you’re proud of where you live, but ignoring the very real problems your community has is folly.  Not to mention irresponsible.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

The irresponsibility is yours. You are on no higher moral ground than we are. Do you process anything other than your loped-sided opinions? It is a rural North Dakota community. There is going to be poverty and high unemployment. Especially with the high population. I have traveled around the world and across the united states for many years. I’m an old
man. Where have you lived? Alaska and North Dakota? I think I’m in a better position to judge standards of living than you are. The truth if you went to school and lived here you would think this is a great place to live.

Huma Ahsan said, I understand you concern for Native Peoples, since you nor I are not Native, and our guilty conscience drives this discussion…

“Our guilty conscience”? You’re speaking only for yourself there.

...that while non- Natives like to complain about tax revenues going to “dirty Indians at Turtle Mountain”(as you called them)...

The only one who has called them dirty is you. Go ahead and do a word search on this thread and see for yourself.

Idiot.

myron lafontaine vomits out, Yes, you can call me an asshole, or delusional, -I don’t care. With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is.

Wow. You are delusional.

I guess it is just easier to label someone a racist. It’s sad that an “old man” has yet to learn how to debate like an adult.

It seems like your comments suggest that it is time to terminate the soverignty of Indian Nations by cutting all federal dollars going to tribes as if that would be the solution.

Umm, cutting the funds and the strings attached would be increasing the tribes sovereignty don’t you think?

The larger issue is that Rob wrote that post hoping to create a discussion to lift the standard of living on the reservation.

All we’re getting here is a denial that there is a problem and a demand for more money to fix the nonexistent (as we are told) problem.

That seems strange.

But if more sovereignty would help lift the lives of those on the reservation let’s do it.

I can see some reasons to be defensive.  Nobody likes their problems to be pointed out.  On the other hand how does a problem get fixed if it’s ignored.

And yes there are plenty of problems in other parts of the state.  But from what I can tell the greatest concentration of poverty is on the reservations so it seems like the best place to start.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

It is a rural North Dakota community. There is going to be poverty and high unemployment

There is no rural community off the reservation in North Dakota that sees the same level of poverty and unemployment as the reservation does.

I think I’m in a better position to judge standards of living than you are.

Well, your assessment of Belcourt certainly doesn’t jibe with that which we hear from the tribal lobbyists who constantly complain about the conditions on the reservations.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Either Belcourt is a great and wonderful place to live or it is a place filled with poverty and unemployment as well as substandard living conditions.  It is an A. or B. proposition, unless you believe that places filled with poverty, unemployment, and substandard living conditions are a great place to live.

And therein lies the problem.  To those people that are content to merely exist, Belcourt is as good of a place as anywhere.  They are provided with an existence, albeit a poor, unemployed, substandard one that is growing poorer and further behind the rest of the country’s standard of living.  And it isn’t just this one Res.  It is every Res.  Aside from gambling, these reservations have no real industry to speak of.  There are few educated folks with good job skills.  Most have to import non-native teachers for their schools. 

I believe that Rob is challenging the idea that we continue to allow folks to merely exist on the government dole without finding jobs or doing anything simply because of:

our guilty conscience drives this discussion and our need to try to make things better by stating blank statements without considering the history that Native peoples have had with us non-Indians, but after we go back and review this history of what happened when we did proceed with termination of federal programs to Indians through the termindation era will we understand that this approach will not work. 

White guilt only works so long.  Look at African Americans.  They want to claim every bump in the road is because of racism or slavery.  So they deserve Federal programs to pay them back.  They want reparations.

I want Natives to have jobs and be educated and have solid incomes and live in good conditions.  And the Reservation System is most certainly not the solution that provides that.  We need a new solution.

The folks on here arguing for the status quo want the current system only with “redevelopment grants” or HUD money or jobs programs or anti-poverty money.  It is time we recognize that we have already tried every single one of these solutions and until we take radical steps to restructure the nature of the Reservation System or simply eliminate it, the problems will continue to worsen.

If this issue is to be resolved by appealing to “white guilt” over historical “white privilege,” those making the claim really ought to answer a really basic question:

If white privilege can keep the native American down despite land allocations totalling about a square mile per family, why couldn’t it prevent immigrants from Vietnam and Laos from making a living, when the latter came here with nothing more than the clothes on their backs?  Why didn’t it prevent ethnic minorities from Europe from making it here?  Again, they were also largely penniless when they arrived.

Your article, Mr. Port, offends me not only as a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa, but it offends me as an educator and as a human being.  After reading your article, I phoned Mr. Cates.  He readily assured me that you wrote the article because “your heart is in the right place”. 

I find that hard to believe considering the generalization that was done.  My offense does not come from the denial that you and others seem to point out.  I will be the first to admit that the living conditions are terrible for SOME people, alcohol and drugs are abused and sold by SOME people, and SOME parents/guardians don’t take care of their children the way they deserve to be taken care of.  This is not the case for all the people who live the on the reservation.  However, you imply that it is.  You imply there is nothing on the reservation, but poor Indians who live in poor housing conditions and raise children who are not able to do anything but continue the cycle.  If this article was truly from your heart, where are the positive things that are on the reservation?  You talk nothing of the school and how most of the teachers who work there are from the reservation and enrolled band members, of how many students have graduated from high school and have gone to college, graduated, and are successful not only on the reservation, but off.  You say nothing of the hospital who also has a large portion of its employees who are Indian providing health care to those who need it.  You say nothing of St. Ann’s, our church, which has been a center of the community since it was built and has brought faith, hope, and love to people who desparately need it. 

There might be many people who don’t make enough money to be considered above the poverty line, but continue to live on the reservation is because it is home, a beautiful home.  It is a place where there is tradition and culture.  It is where family is and no matter where you live, you can always come back and you will be home.  Who are you to decide that Mr. Lafountain is “delusional” about the Turtle Mountains being beautiful?  Why isn’t he as entitled to an opinion as you are?  Do you honestly believe because you spent 15 hours on the reservation that you have somehow come to know all there is to know about the reservation, good and bad?  Enough to not only write an article about it, but to tell the people who have lived there for their entire lives that it is a bad place to live.
My family has lived on the reservation since it became a reservation.  We are proud of who we are and where we come from.  We certainly don’t need someone whose “heart is in the right place” telling us that where we come from is not beautiful.  It is beautiful.  My heart fills with happiness when I go home and it fills with sadness when I leave.  I don’t think the Turtle Mountains are perfect, far from it.  But it is my home and you, a non-Indian with your “heart in the right place” can keep your heart and your judgements.  Because I don’t want it or need it.  I don’t believe that you are a racist, Mr. Port.  I believe you are a person who says they are trying to make things better and improve the living of the poor Indians because you know more than us.  At the same time you belittle and undermine the good and positive that has been occurring and will continue to occur in spite of you and those like you.

Rae Villebrun
Proud Member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians

Rob has admitted that he should have pointed out that the conditions he highlighted on the reservation do not apply to all residents.

That being said how does it help the residents by pretending that things don’t need to be improved?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I should have said how does it help the reservations by attacking the person a person who says we should improve the conditions there?

Oh yeah, how did Rob belittle the progress you’ve made?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Yes, he did admit that it didn’t apply to everyone.  However, he failed to mention that in the article.

I don’t believe I was attacking anyone.  I was stating my opinion just like you do and he does. 

The belittling occurred when there was no mention of anything good that is part of the reservation.  He provided a one sided picture of the reservation to his readers.  For those people who have never been to Belcourt or are not familiar with Indians, it continues to perpetuate the stereotype of the poor Indians who continue to live off the government because they don’t know any better.  In my comment, I chose to show another side.

maybe he could have mentioned it in the article, and I suspect he will in the followup.

But with the short amount of time and space to do the article he talked about what he’d like to see changed.

My normal smart alec self would normally have written that you don’t want to see those things changed.  But since you probably wouldn’t have seen my sarcasm I’ll say that everyone wants to see the reservation lifted out of poverty.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Rae Marie,

I will be the first to admit that the living conditions are terrible for SOME people, alcohol and drugs are abused and sold by SOME people, and SOME parents/guardians don’t take care of their children the way they deserve to be taken care of.  This is not the case for all the people who live the on the reservation.

Did I say those things were the case for all people on the reservation, or is that just something you came up with on your own?

I’ll answer my own question and point out that I didn’t say that, and would assume that it is your own defensiveness which leads you to say that I did.

I can’t help that you’re sensitive about the conditions that exist on the reservation.  All I did in my column was tell the truth.

I understand that Indians suffer thanks to a lot of stereotypes, but the truth is the truth and I’m not about to turn a blind eye to a tragic situation simply to spare your feelings.

How about, instead of coming after me for my column, we talk about how things on the reservation can be fixed?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

it continues to perpetuate the stereotype of the poor Indians who continue to live off the government because they don’t know any better.

That is not a stereotype.  That is reality for a significant portion of the residents.  And it isn’t because they don’t know any better, it is because they can.  63% Unemployment in a state with 3% unemployment.  Now, the sad part is that the stereotype is perpetuated by the other Indians that do live off the government and don’t know any better.  Not by Rob for pointing it out.  It is a stereotype I would like to see eliminated, but the only way to eliminate it is to reduce the number of Indians that live off the government and don’t know any better.  And that is why Rob wrote the article.  He wants to reduce that number and it is obvious that the current state of the reservation system is not doing that.

To point out the problems on the reservation is not racist or stereotypical.  You take some colorblind person and have them objectively look at the Res compared to the rest of North Dakota based on income, employment, education, poverty, and so on, and they will come to the same conclusion.  Or further, to travel to every single Res in the country and find the commonality.  And every one of them has the same issues.  Poverty, unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse, diabetes…  Not that Indians ARE INHERENTLY lazy or worthless or stupid, but rather that the current reservation system is allowing BEHAVIOR that is lazy and stupid.  It encourages it.

Why does this have anything to do with race?  Why does it imply that there aren’t good hardworking Indians and good hard working people on the Res?  There are.  We could talk about the 37% that have jobs or the folks that don’t live in filth.  This is not to say that they don’t exist.  It is to say that pointing out success stories does nothing to address the problem.  You have to take a good hard honest look at the Res and see the problems and fix them, not try to diminish them by pointing out the success stories.  Let’s talk about the problems and how to fix them, not gloss over them and attack Rob for not saying how beautiful Belcourt is and how many hard working folks there are.

Like I said before, you implied. 
I am defending because it is worth defending.  I never said you weren’t telling the truth.  I said you painted a one sided picture.
I don’t believe I was coming after your column.  For some reason, you think you know more about reservation life than those who live there.  And since you want to talk about how things might be fixed, let’s talk.

Like I said before, you implied. 

I implied, or your defensiveness is clouding your vision?

For some reason, you think you know more about reservation life than those who live there.

Never said that either.  I just wrote about what I saw.  But I have spent quite a bit of time on the reservations over the years.  Visited the people there.  Been in their homes.  Drove the roads.  Patronized the businesses.  I know more than enough for my opinions.

And since you want to talk about how things might be fixed, let’s talk.

Absolutely.

When i look at the reservation I see a whole demographic of people who have been made almost entirely dependent on the government.  A majority of the population on the reservation is unemployed, meaning that these people are dependent upon the government for day-to-day living.  Most of the jobs that are available involve working for the tribe/government and/or casino, so among those who work most of them can’t speak out to criticize the status quo lest they be fired from their job or otherwise penalized by the powers that be.

This is an example of socialism not unlike Soviet-era Russia, if perhaps not as extreme as that historical example.

What you need on the reservation is more independence, and I think the only way that’s going to happen is if the reservations are ended and Native Americans are embraced as simply American citizens like the rest of us.

This would end the welfare state on the reservation.  Right now the reservation, with it’s offers of entitlements and such, acts as a magnet which keeps the Indians close.  Keeps them from going elsewhere to find employment and their fortune.  Ultimately keeps them from being successful.  If the reservation didn’t exist Indians would go where the jobs were in order to survive.

This would give them the impetus they need to lift themselves out of poverty and grab a piece of the pie for themselves.

Now I know this probably offends your sensibilities, but this is the truth as I see it.  The reservation creates a welfare state that keeps the Indians down.  If you want to lift your people out of poverty, demand an end to the welfare state.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Why is it that because I disagree with Rob that I am attacking him? You are right.  Change does need to happen, but it isn’t going to happen because a person who isn’t Indian says that things need to change.  If that were the case, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.  Many have taken a good, honest look at reservation life and are making gains towards changing. 
Pointing out the success stories provides role models and motivation for more people. Through these successes, there is hope that change can happen for all those who are Indian or non-Indian whether they live on the reservation or not.
I don’t diminish the problems nor the success stories.  I work every day to educate children in hopes they make good choices and are able to be responsible for them.  It is through these children that the life Rob talks about will no longer exist, but it won’t happen overnight.
Again, why is it wrong for us to believe that the reservation is a beautiful place?  Beauty doesn’t only exist in homes and yard.  It also exists in people.

Pointing out the success stories provides role models and motivation for more people. Through these successes, there is hope that change can happen for all those who are Indian or non-Indian whether they live on the reservation or not.

I’ll agree that successful role models are of fundamental importance.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

What are saying doesn’t offend my sensibilities.  You have the right to your opinion.

It sounds like a good plan.  However, it hasn’t worked for all the other people who still live on the government, aren’t Indian and don’t live on the reservation.

Rae, how many folks get an education and find success off of the reservation?  (I’m sure they still consider it home just like my family that’s moved consider ND home)

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Belcourt is in a unique position because it has a two year college on the reservation.  Through the college, other colleges/universities have offered 4 year programs.  Because of this, many people have graduated with 2 and 4 year degrees.  Unfortunately, not all reservations have colleges.
When working on my thesis and trying to figure out a topic, I researched how many people graduated from college.  The numbers were low.  Native Americans have one of the lowest graduation rates.  But, it is improving.
Being successful off the reservation is a reality for many Indians.  With over 30,000 band members, a majority of enrollees don’t live in Belcourt.  I would have to guess that most of them must be successful or they would move home.  I could be wrong, too.

rob

Again, I don’t care if you call me delusional, vomiting, or an asshole. If you need derogatory terms to empower your weak positions-more power to ya. A call to terminate reservations? And what are all these cradle-to-grave entitlements that must end. Am I supposed to be getting something that I’m not. You haven’t done a stitch of research on the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians- have you?
Why is your journalism so obtuse and less than perceptive? You made a road trip to the east cluster-with which you have made sweeping generalizations. You could have had an insightful article showing all the shades of success and the lack of it in Belcourt. You could have examined housing from the east clusters to the many beautiful houses in Belcourt. There wasn’t an ounce of objectivity in your article. It was however instead laced with malice and contempt. Did you interview any community leaders? Business leaders? Teachers? Anyone? Honestly what type of research did you do before you wrote your article? Do you research any of your articles or don’t you care about journalistic integrity? What’s interesting is that the pro-Native
responses above are intelligent and articulate while
the anti-Native responses are demeaning with hints of empirical generalizations, and stereotypes. Brain power wise I would have to chalk one up for the Natives on this board. Mess with Belcourt and you are messing with the best.
Again I challenge you to come back to Belcourt and look objectively at the many shades that make up the diverse and beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation.

What’s interesting is that the pro-Native
responses above are intelligent and articulate…

“Intelligent and articulate” equals making up quotes and going on about elitist, white superiority?

WOW!! No kidding. We have different definitions of what it means to be intelligent and articulate. I use the dictionary definitions. I’m not sure what you’re using.

Brain power wise I would have to chalk one up for the Natives on this board.

Says the person who accuses people of racism with no basis.

Mess with Belcourt and you are messing with the best.

What? Get out of here! Most of you guys don’t even have jobs. You need a new definition of what it means to be the best.

One more thing…

...while the anti-Native responses…

What “anti-Native responses”? Nobody here is against the Indians. We’re against the Indian reservations as they are currently run.

Let me know if that important point needs spelled out again.

It’s amazing. You were going on about being “intelligent and articulate” and yet you missed the obvious. Perhaps a trip to the local college for a remedial English comprehension course would do you well.

There are three main issues that must be addressed when dealing with impoverished regions:

1) Improving the rule of law,
2) Removal of entitlement barriers,
3) The removal of politicians who gain from a large entitlement class (that is a sub-population who are wholly or mostly dependent on entitlement programs).

In poor regions of the US, whether they be on certain reservations such as Turtle Mountain, or places like the Mississippi Delta, you find a breakdown of the rule of law (e.g., corruption, inconsistent or selective law enforcement, etc) and you find a large entitlement class.  On the Delta this entitlement class is partly created by fraudulent disability claims btw. 

Politicians also play a role in maintaining the status quo, since they rely on votes from the entitlement class to stay in office.  Never vote for somebody to “save you,” he’ll probably make a career out of it.

I don’t care if you call me delusional, vomiting, or an asshole.

Rob hasn’t called anyone that.

Myron what has he said besides saying that he feels bad for those people on the reservation living in poverty, expressing concern for them and suggesting that the blame lies with the federal government?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

There wasn’t an ounce of objectivity in your article. It was however instead laced with malice and contempt. Did you interview any community leaders? Business leaders? Teachers? Anyone? Honestly what type of research did you do before you wrote your article? Do you research any of your articles or don’t you care about journalistic integrity? What’s interesting is that the pro-Native responses above are intelligent and articulate while the anti-Native responses are demeaning with hints of empirical generalizations, and stereotypes.

Fist, Rob writes op-ed pieces, which is what this was.  Perhaps you confuse journalism with having an opinion because journalists never make opinion statements, only provide facts… wait, isn’t that what journalist do?  What kind of objectivity do you expect in an op-ed piece?  Rob made empirical observations of the poverty rate and the unemployment rate and use these quantitative measures to come to the conclusion that something drastic needs to be done to improve conditions and then offered opinions on what that should be.

The “pro-native responses” have been things like this:

I am a resident of Belcourt, ND-It is in the beautiful Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation. I have lived here all my life and have yet to see the dire conditions graphically portrayed. I am offended and amused at the same time. Amused at your elitist, white superiority and offended that some will take your skewed observations of my home as fact… Belcourt is a beautiful place to live and enjoy a high standard of living.

High standard of living—maybe for the 37% that have jobs and the less than 50% that don’t live in poverty.

With my one voice I’ll expose yours and Robs elitist white propaganda for what it is. Belcourt is a beautiful place to live with a high standard of living for a rural community. There is no difference between you and the Indian down the block from me. He may even be smarter, better looking, and have a better job than you. Racial alienation doesn’t help anyone. You will be challenged at every turn and proven wrong. Your problem is that in using empirical generalizations your opponents can always find examples proving the opposite... I can smell the venom of your double standards. I will even go as far as to say the standard of living is higher in Belcourt than Minot.

Do you even understand the word “empirical”?  So what you are saying is that Rob makes observations based on experience or verifiable facts and figures like unemployment rates, but that these facts and figures do not take into account that you can find exceptions to the 63% unemployment rate and the 50% poverty rate.  Then you offer the nugget that because the air is clean and the area is beautiful, that Belcourt enjoys a higher standard of living than Minot that has a 3% unemployment rate, 25% of the people have Bachelor’s degrees, and the poverty rate is 12%.

http://local.reply.com/real-estate/ND/minot.html
http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/north-dakota/minot/

Dude, get a clue.  Empirical observations indeed.  If you judge standard of living as being able to sit on your ass, live without having a job, and breathe fresh air, you are right, Belcourt is better than Minot.

What’s interesting is that the pro-Native responses above are intelligent and articulate…

Especially the threats and profanity.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Now, if I’m not mistaken, and correct me if I’m wrong, but have Mr. Port expressed his idea’s of how perhaps our conditions can be changed? Maybe taking what federal money we are recieving will solve that problem. Then we can continue to live here on the reservation in more poverty and filth and unemployment. And then to fix THAT problem we can all relocate to say, Minot, and leave our homes and land just to start all over again like when we were first put on the reservation. All the things we HAVE been doing to better our reservation (surprise surprise, we have been trying) will just have been a waste of time. I admit that our people have been ‘dragging their asses’ so to say in the past but I have noticed a lot of community action beginning. Pathways to Prosperity, Turtle Mountain Community College, Programs at the IHS to help people stop smoking/drinking, Rehabilitation Centers are possibly in the making and so many more. The truth of the matter is and it’s very simple: We are all entitled to an opinion and Mr. Port expressed his. Stating the problem has been done numerous times before, it’s quite evident (to me and many others anyway) so I don’t think there was a need to tell us about our problems. The Native people do have a lot of different problems that we are trying to work out. Our elected officials sometimes do not know what they are doing and sometimes embezzle our money, but we don’t know that will happen when we are electing them, and they are NOT elected again. Our land and lives are beautiful, I look out the large upstairs windows of my college and that glistening lake and gorgeous trees are so delightful that I know my heart will always be here.

I myself am on Food Stamps and TANF (formerly AFDC) I am 18 with a 2 year old child. I own a great car, I have no home, I am a full time college student enrolled in a four year program that the college has just now learned they are able to offer beginning in two years. I recieve $450 a month from a scholarship and $400 on TANF. Being a full time student and a full time mother, there is no time for me to also work a job. I pay my bills on that “free money” which for me and so many others like me isn’t very free at all. I believe I work hard for that money. I know that I do because at the end of every day when I lay in bed to go to sleep I am so tired and mentally, emotionally, and physically drained. Now that I’ve shared much of myself with you, can you share some of your lives with all of us? Perhaps we just don’t understand where you are coming from.

I’m not afraid to work a job but I’m afraid to watch my son grow up in a daycare and not with me. Family is most important to a lot of us Native people. I also have a question for Mr. Port: How many of these people invited you in, being a stranger? I have a feeling that they all did, and with a smile on their faces. I’m not here to rip you apart, but I’m sure you’ll make a reply comment and rip my comment apart with an answer to every thing just as you have done to Myron and others.

And just to clarify and add some things, When I said I do not have a home, I meant I do not own my own home or rent an apartment/house. Not meaning I am homeless.

I would also like to add that Barnsville (the old housing project) and some other housing projects are far from being expectional and many of those people among others need to get up and get jobs, but it seemed you were speaking of the reservation as a whole, you never really clarified what people or how many people were living this lifestyle that you wrote about. I’ve never been to Barnsville so I don’t know what the conditions are like there.

And in ending the way I see it is the Native people were put on reservations to be out of sight, out of might, and to keep quiet. And I guess thats exactly what we are doing… So someones having their cake and eating it too and they are still not happy.

Whitney, I never meant to imply that all Indians on the reservation live the way I observed nor did I ever come out and state as fact any such thing.  If you took my column that way there’s really not a whole lot I can do, though I’ll keep your criticism in mind for future writings.

Also, I was pretty clear as to what can be done to fix things on the reservation.  Namely, the welfare state needs to come to an end.  Making people beholden to the government leaves them open to be controlled by the government, and right now the powers-that-be are best served by keeping the reservation in poverty so that they have a nice crop of victims to pander to with government entitlements.

And this is nothing specific to the Indians.  We see it with farmers, blacks, women, etc.  All of these groups are told that they’re victims, they can’t get by without help from the government, and then they’re controlled by being beholden to that help.

The problem with the reservation isn’t the Indians but rather the system the Indians are living in.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Maybe taking what federal money we are recieving will solve that problem.

I think the idea would be to find a way phase it out somehow.

Certainly the government programs as they are now constituted have failed the poor and the taxpayer alike.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

By the way Whitney, I read your two posts and I don’t understand exactly what you’re upset with Rob about?

It seems more like you agreed with part of his post and then went off on some things he never said.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

And in ending the way I see it is the Native people were put on reservations to be out of sight, out of might, and to keep quiet.

So the fact that Rob tries to talk about the problems is a bad thing how?

By the way, Rob has those Readers Blogs where you can get your word out in the same way he does.  If your really interested in advancing the discussion you should sign up for one.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Whistler: I have no interest in doing what Rob does. I am upset with Rob for some of the same reasons so many others are. Like Rae has said, he painted a one side picture, you would most likely be uspest if I did to you what he’s done to us. I also think he may have stretched the truth. The things he’s described, I’ve never ever seen here. Not in the circles I run in anyways. He came here to stir up controversy and thats what he’s getting. He’s enjoying this, so be happy for him.

Rob: I’m glad that you will keep this in mind for future writings. It’s hard to come here and try not to insult anyone when I feel so insulted myself. However, I do know that you were not writing about me in particular. And I do agree with some things you have said. But ending the reservation system and welfare system would not be a good idea for ALL indians, especially those who are using it like they should, like me. I think that if people are going to sit at home, smoke weed, not work or get education, be drunk, pop out kids left and right, not clean their homes, and not take care of responsibilites, then they should not be entitled to assistance. End of the problem right there. I’m trying to keep the criticism as constructive as possible. I just feel that you could have at least mentioned the other side of the story a few times. I’m sorry to say that I just feel that you wrote the article to cause a stir up, because I can’t see anything else that you would get out of this. Unless you plan on becoming a politician and helping, pointing out our already obvious problems is a dead end, its been done a million times.

I am upset with Rob for some of the same reasons so many others are. Like Rae has said, he painted a one side picture, you would most likely be uspest if I did to you what he’s done to us.

Well he didn’t say that every resident on the reservation lived like that and he did admit that he could have/(should have) made that clear.

But you still sound upset.

But ending the reservation system and welfare system would not be a good idea for ALL indians

I would consider that for all people but whatever. 

I think we should have a discussion of what would be the best thing for all parties.  What could be the harm in that?

I’m sorry to say that I just feel that you wrote the article to cause a stir up, because I can’t see anything else that you would get out of this.

Knowing Rob personally I think he wrote it because he was concerned and writing about it is what he does to change things.

Unless you plan on becoming a politician and helping, pointing out our already obvious problems is a dead end, its been done a million times.

I think what it shows is that the politicians’ solution hasn’t fixed the problem.

I would ask that you reconsider opening a blog over here.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

The things he’s described, I’ve never ever seen here. Not in the circles I run in anyways. He came here to stir up controversy and thats what he’s getting. He’s enjoying this, so be happy for him.

I’m actually not enjoying being called racist and names and getting threatened in the least.

I did, actually, write the column to stir things up.  But that’s because I wanted to stir things up in a positive matter.  Get people concerned about what’s going on.  What good would an op/ed that didn’t get people thinking be?

I think that if people are going to sit at home, smoke weed, not work or get education, be drunk, pop out kids left and right, not clean their homes, and not take care of responsibilites, then they should not be entitled to assistance.

Absolutely!  Whitney, I feel the exact same way.

I think that if you were a little less defensive you’d see that you and I agree on more of this than you realize.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Whitney,

If I may jump in here, please consider the offer by Rob and Whistler to sign up for a Reader’s Blog here.

If you are correct, and Rob’s portrait was one-sided and intended to “cause a stir up” as you suggest, wouldn’t it help to have another voice, one from inside the community, to describe things more accurately?  How can it possibly not help your people to have one more voice offering an insider’s point of view?

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

It’s free and there’s no obligation to write more often than you feel like it.

Beyond the normal standards of good taste (profanity etc) there isn’t any rules about what you write.

You certainly have no obligation to agree with anyone.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Like I’ve already said though, I do agree in some part with you but some things you have said and how you said them are offensive. I have also said that yes, something should be done. I have also said that stating the problem wont help, and stating the solution wont help, but testing the solution will. So why isn’t the solution being tried? And the same way you do not enjoy being called a racist, we do not enjoy being called filthy and poor. So maybe we should all just aplogize to each other. I came here in hopes that maybe you can consider writing a new article for publication in our newspaper with some kind of apology or explanation. Perhaps reach in a bit farther and also write about the wonderful things here that we treasure and are proud of. Thats your choice but I think it would be nice. I guess I’m just very proud of my accomplishments (even though I’ve made many mistakes, but we all do) and you just made it sound like no one here has much to be proud of. Many of the things that disgust you disgust me just the same, I just don’t point it out for all to see, after all I’m sure they can see it already. I just feel that the people that you focused on in your article were being demeaned even though it was the truth. I guess I’m just sympathetic that they are being embarrassed. I once went to an old friends house and watched as she smoked weed with her mother! But I didn’t put it in the paper, I called child welfare. Some things should just be handled in certain ways and people should conduct themselves accordingly. Thats all.

Just for kicks, take a look at what those arguing with Rob are pointing to.  Rob’s told (when not being libeled or otherwise insulted) to become a politician and help.  A list of initiatives of tribal government is listed and praised.  One poster is a welfare mother, another is receiving student aid.  A few may be gainfully employed.

Look closely.  The testimonies of those who most vehemently disagree with our gracious host indicate that—surprise—he’s got a point.  Those writing have inerrantly pointed to the government as a source of help, re-affirming the welfare state that has imprisoned too many all over the country—and in their hometown especially.

In attacking this column, they’ve proven its points.

And I would sign up and post a blog and what not, but I feel that what I need to say should be put in the newspaper where I read the original article, but some things I wanted to have published in there has already been said by another tribal member. I just came here….. well I already stated why I came here. But it wasn’t to get my voice heard and try to correct Mr. Port so that other people will hear it, it was for Mr. Port only, and most likely not blog worthy because I’m sure we’re almost to the bottom of it now. The damage has been done and I’m not here to try to fix it right now, just get some more answers and perhaps a little apology to the people of Turtle Mountain and a promise that this wont happen again. At least not in all over the states newspapers. I’m not saying he shouldn’t write what he feels anymore, but just to not be so insulting.

If you knew him you probably wouldn’t think that he meant to be insulting but was speaking out of concern.

I realize that you very well might not agree with what he proposed to fix the problem.  A lot of time solutions are found that way.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I think that if people are going to sit at home, smoke weed, not work or get education, be drunk, pop out kids left and right, not clean their homes, and not take care of responsibilites, then they should not be entitled to assistance.

Agreed.  I would like you to quantify what percentage of people fall into this category.  Put it in perspective.

Now we know that these problems exist other places—particullarly in the minority communities (regardless of minorities).  If Native Americans had gangsta rappers, it would be the same story the African American community tells.

If you go back, Rob has said numerous times that these same problems that he describes about the reservation system apply to almost all public housing projects and particullarly to the “victims” of Katrina that lined up to have government take care of them at the Superdome.  They would say how beautiful New Orleans is and ignore the rampant violence and drug crimes that were there both prior to Katrina and after.  But unless we talk about the issues and point out the problems, they get glossed over.

I am happy that you are choosing to go to college and further your education.  I am certain that a significant portion of the population wants a better life.  It is precisely your initiative that is encouraging.  And it is also your recognition that many others do not share you initiative.

I hope that you can differentiate Rob’s comments directed at those that you recognize as being part of the problem as being an indictment of their lifestyle and dependence on government, not as a racist statement about “all Indians”.  But many of the comments here have focused on “the beauty of Belcourt” or the wonderful lifestyle or of family values or of whatever else.

There is no need to defend all African Americans simply because you are black.  Listen to Bill Cosby.  There is no obligation to defend the lazy, ignorant, uneducated, etc., simply because they are Indians and you happen to be too.  We are people first and poverty and apathy transcend race, color, heritage, culture, etc.  But the Reservations and Housing projects represent the absolute worst of poverty and unemployment and something needs to be done.  To label Rob as a racist for pointing out how much worse these problems are in the Reservation system or the Public Housing projects and claim that he hates blacks or Indians or whoever is not right.

What is the answer you propose?  More jobs?  More programs?  Do you really believe that if there were more jobs these folks would jump up and say, “We would much rather work than sit on our asses and smoke pot and drink.”  They are given enough handouts to survive and until the handouts end and they are forced to do something different, they will not.  The current system has built this system of dependence on government and is perpetuating it.  I know it seems mean spirited to point it out and to propose difficult cures, but the easy ones have all been tried and failed.

Whitney,

You are obviously bright, and obviously what you have to say is important to you.  What better opportunity than a forum where you can say what you please, accept the criticisms that are meaningful to you, and tell everyone else to buzz off?

If you honestly think that a newspaper is a more appropriate forum, perhaps you should consider how much wider this audience would be rather than that of a local newspaper, as well as how many of the politically involved leaders of North Dakota read what is written here, even if they don’t always leave their comments.

Finally, there is nothing that says that a person can’t belong to several different communities at the same time.  Your addition here, even if it was only on a part time basis, would benefit all of us regulars here, and you as well.  You will be challenged, forced to think about what you really believe and defend what you say, and you would challenge the rest of us as well.

Besides, Rob is running one helluva deal on new memberships, for the rest of this year only!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I’m sure after everything is taken away they’ll still sit on their asses. Why do you keep saying that? You seen of how they live and what they recieve but you don’t actually know them. Your stereotyping them. I’m sure just die or what?

Why do you keep saying that?

I think Justin was discussing problem areas beyond the reservation:

these same problems that he describes about the reservation system apply to almost all public housing projects and particullarly to the “victims” of Katrina that lined up to have government take care of them at the Superdome.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Why do you keep saying that? You seen of how they live and what they recieve but you don’t actually know them. Your stereotyping them. I’m sure just die or what?

Maybe they will die.  That’s a cruel reality.  But why should we help those who won’t help themselves?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

I’ve been thinking about this article and the comments listed for the past 2 days. I can’t seem to get it out of my mind. I’ve also taken the time to read other blogs you have written and understand your background and why you feel the way you do. You’re a White Republican. It’s as simple as that. (I’m not a racist either, my husband has the same two faults.)

I can’t be angry at the negativity you pointed out with our reservation. It is a fact that there are many dilapidated houses, people living in substandard conditions, and children running around improperly clothed. What I would like to know is how pointing out the worst possible faults of our people is supposed to inspire them to become something more? Inspiration comes from success, not from failure.

I am one of those girls who popped out a child at 18, lived on welfare, received food stamps and medical assistance. Thirteen years later I am a dissertation away from receiving my PhD in nursing. My success is attributed to the fact that there were so few Native nurses, which meant we have White people caring for our people. I never wanted people like you (or your wife, especially if she comes from the same conservative and judgmental background as you do) taking care of my drunk, unemployed, prison-bound people. I hope that my SUCCESS continues to be an inspiration to my upcoming generations.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how you could possibly believe that pointing out the worst case scenarios will help find solutions. Yes there is an abundance of history, none that any other race would want to endure, but we still live that history today. So tell me, how are we supposed to move on? You are trying to encourage those treaties to be broken by saying the government should quit giving us millions of dollars. Much of that money is for our healthcare, which the government is responsible for. You can’t put hard working people on reservations with the poorest land in the state so they can’t farm or grow crops. Instead, they supplied us (and still do) with lard, meat in a can, and numerous other “nutritious” foods. We can’t thank them enough for that. Now our people suffer the highest diabetes rates in the world. Our people were hunters and gatherers. We were healthy and disease free until our wonderful government stepped in to help out us savages. We are doing our best to provide for our people, largely in part with our casino profits. (I’m sure you are against Indian gaming as well). With our casino profits we have been able to build and fund health care centers, youth programs and preventive education. We are making great strides in the right direction.

I find it very hard to believe that my family let you into their homes. You are the reason so many of our people have no trust with Whites. You befriend us and then shoot us down. What, may I ask, did my family do to you in their homes to make you report such sickening observations? Did we not offer you something to eat? Did we not offer you warmth from the cold? As horrible as the living conditions may have been (again, I’m going to assume here, that you searched out the worst possible housings/houses to knock on the door)my family, as poverty-stricken as they are, would offer you the shirt off of their backs. Although you wouldn’t take it anyway since the stench brought tears to your eyes.

Perhaps when you can open your eyes to the beauty of our people, our culture, our heritage then maybe we will invite you back to see the real us. The people that are doctors, lawyers, scientists, teachers, coaches, etc that have improved our communities far beyond the help of our wonderful government.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how you could possibly believe that pointing out the worst case scenarios will help find solutions.

I don’t think that ignoring the problem helps.

Yes there is an abundance of history, none that any other race would want to endure,

If you study your history you’d find that most people at one time had tough times.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

What I would like to know is how pointing out the worst possible faults of our people is supposed to inspire them to become something more?

The first step to solving a problem is admitting that there is one.  I wrote the article less for the people on the reservation than for the people off it.  A lot of people don’t spend as much time on the reservations as I have, and while a lot of them have a vague notion about things being tough, many of them don’t know just how bad it is.

So, my point was to show them.  To hit them over the head with it so that we could get some public momentum toward change.

Perhaps when you can open your eyes to the beauty of our people, our culture, our heritage then maybe we will invite you back to see the real us.

I’m aware of the beauty of the Native American culture.  When I lived in Alaska there were a number of the Inuit people in our area, and here in North Dakota I’ve spent a lot of time on reservations and have seen very beautiful things.

I didn’t highlight those things in my article because I didn’t feel like I had to.  I assumed that most people are aware that not all Indians live in poverty, and that many of them are very successful.  Perhaps that was a bad assumption on my part, but certainly it isn’t enough to discount my column entirely.

You are trying to encourage those treaties to be broken by saying the government should quit giving us millions of dollars. Much of that money is for our healthcare, which the government is responsible for. You can’t put hard working people on reservations with the poorest land in the state so they can’t farm or grow crops.

Well, part of my problem with the reservations is that they’re defacto segregation.  You’re right, the land up there isn’t great.  And there’s not a lot of economic stimulus in the area to create jobs that will in turn lift people out of poverty.

I see the reservations as magnets that attracts, with its promise of entitlements, the Indians away from communities where they could be more prosperous.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Who said the problem was being ignored?  It is addressed everyday when children go to school.  It is addressed everyday when adults are attending the college.  It is addressed everyday that people go to work and provide motivation and incentive for others to do the same.

It continues to amaze me that there are so many people who have no connection to the reservation, but have the plan that is going to save the Indians who live on the reservation.  You base your opinions on what you think you know.  Please tell me what you do know for a fact and do it without making generalizations.

What entitlements are given because one lives on the reservation?  For some reason, people are under the impression that Indians have this supply of “free” money they are given.  People who are poor on the reservation are given the same help as those non-Indians who live in the United States.

It is addressed everyday when children go to school.  It is addressed everyday when adults are attending the college.  It is addressed everyday that people go to work and provide motivation and incentive for others to do the same.

First of all I haven’t visited the Turtle Mountain reservation.  But from what I’ve seen on other reservations the problems haven’t been getting better. 

That’s just an observation, maybe that’s not the case at Turtle Mountain.

It continues to amaze me that there are so many people who have no connection to the reservation, but have the plan that is going to save the Indians who live on the reservation.

I took the original editorial not anywhere close to a solution.  Now I believe that government dependence is a terrible thing.  But the question that comes up is how to break the poverty cycle.

I don’t have the answer, do you? 

By the way you should look into getting a reader blog here and post things of interest about your thoughts.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

What entitlements are given because one lives on the reservation?  For some reason, people are under the impression that Indians have this supply of “free” money they are given.  People who are poor on the reservation are given the same help as those non-Indians who live in the United States.

I don’t think it works out any better for someone in the welfare/poverty cycle whether they live on a reservation or in Minot.  It’s the same problem.

The question is how do we break the cycle?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Is there a problem with the Res or not?  Is there abundant poverty or not?  Is there high unemployment or not?  Is there a problem with alcohol and drug abuse or not?  The answer is in the affirmative for every single one of these questions. 

There are lots of causes for it, but the fact is that the Spanish, English, and French colonized the new world 500 years ago and maybe they shouldn’t have done it, but they did.  Americans moved west.  Lots of bad stuff was done, treaties broken, etc.  It sucks.  But lots of blacks are here because their ancestors were slaves.  They had slavery until the 1860’s.  And it sucked.  Should our ancestors have owned slaves?  No.  It sucks.

Now, we all admit that there is a major problem with the reservation system.  If you dispute it, talk to the Native American leaders that are claiming there is a problem when they write grants to get HUD money or Education money.  They are saying there is a problem with poverty and unemployment.  And almost universally folks seem to agree.  Something needs to be done or the problem is not going to get any better.

The problem with Rob pointing it out is he is white and Republican.  Pointing it out means that Rob wants to change it.  But Rob’s answer to changing the problems is the typical Republican one.  Accountability not victimhood.  Make people accountable and stop subsidizing the existence of those not willing to work.  It is harsh and it leads to things like homelessness and worse poverty for those folks not willing to work even when faced with homelessness and that sucks for them.  Especially when they feel they are entitled to something more than the fruits of their labor simply because their ancestors were treated shitty 100 years ago.  The alternative is to perpetuate the victimhood and continue to throw more money at the victims so that they can continue to be victims and create future generations of victims.

Turn down the HUD funds from the white man.  Act like a Sovereign Nation and fix the problems on your own.  Or accept that help is based on results.  If the programs are not getting results, they need to be rethought and rebuilt.  I believe that the reservations themselves are a huge part of the problem and agree with the “defacto segregation” argument.  That is what it is.  And until the system changes, it will be the same old sad story of poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, unemployment, and despair.

We solve the problem by educating the stakeholders whether Indian or non-Indian. 

Last I read, HUD was a program for all people not just Indians.

Again, solving this problem for all people who are below the poverty line is education.  Sometimes this is tough to do, especially, when education isn’t important to parents, it is hard for their children to find its importance.

So if Rob and the rest of you concerned enough to keep commenting really want to help, and I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you want to help all people not just Indians who are poor, maybe you should spend some time mentoring and volunteering to work with children who need positive role models in their lives.

I must say, after reading this article I am totally appalled by “Rob”, the so-called person who wrote this nonsense!  Let me say first that visiting anyplace for only a couple of hours do NOT make them an expert on the lifestyles of that community.  I’m a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians and I was born and raised on the Turtle Mountain reservation.  I am a very successful young woman with a B.S. in Social Science from the University of North Dakota… and guess what Rob; I didn’t do it on welfare either!  Although there are poverty problem and such on the reservation, there are the same types of problems going on in many other places in the country.  You can visit any “ghetto” (as Rob calls them) and see these same kinds of issues, if not worse.  As a person who has lived in Belcourt their whole life, I have NEVER seen half the things that Rob has described in this article.  His descriptions of Belcourt are VERY EXAGGERATED!!  Also, let me point out his comment of, “I met people who were drunk (or possibly high) at noon, even as their children played in the road and on the twisted, sharp metal of abandoned cars.  I saw a visibly pregnant mother smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer. I met a woman who was 29 years old and already a grandmother (to no fewer than three grandchildren) thanks to both her and her daughter’s young pregnancies. I met men and women, fathers and mothers, who had spent more of their lives in prison than out of prison. I met entire families whose only source of income seemed to be from stealing or selling drugs plus whatever they got from the government in terms of assistance.”  Well Rob, go and visit College Park in Atlanta, GA, North Minneapolis, or South Central in L.A., California, No matter where you go, you will see these same things so, don’t try to isolate these troubles to only Indian Reservations!!  After reading this article, I have come to the conclusion that “Rob” is a VERY ignorant man and he should do some more researching before making such False accusations!!!

Furthermore, as far as your comment, “I know, I know. The Indians have gotten a raw deal in this country’s history, but “history” is exactly what that is. We’re in a new era now. Our government spends billions of dollars on creating education and employment opportunities for Indians, not to mention the billions spent on personal assistance for the Indians themselves in the form of housing money, food money, welfare money, etc. But none of this is working. Most of the Indians on these reservations eat up all of that assistance and still don’t manage to lift themselves out of the ghettos they’re living in. Why? I think it’s because they live without consequences.”  Well, let me give you a news flash Rob, There was a treaty signed between the Turtle Mountain Chippewa Indians and the Federal Government.  In that treaty, the government agreed to give us housing, food, education, etc. for our land…OUR LAND!!!  The government SHOULD be fulfilling their part of that treaty!!!  And may I also add, half the so-called “benefits” (as you call them) i.e. housing, health care, education, etc. are not up top notch by any means!!  So, anytime you want to get a “hand out” from the government, such as a house, probably like the ones that you’ve maybe see in the “ghetto” of Belcourt… Please feel free to move right in!!  If it wasn’t for the Government taking our land in the first place and belittling the native people of this country, maybe my people wouldn’t be in this position!!! Now, I know, I know, you (Rob), have said that this is just “History,” but you shouldn’t be so apt to point fingers at my people because of what your ancestors have done to my people!  KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!!
Sincerely,
Indian Royalty!!

Whitney said, I just feel that the people that you focused on in your article were being demeaned even though it was the truth.

And you, as well as others commenting here, want Rob to apologize for talking about the truth. Think about what you’re asking for there.

The damage has been done and I’m not here to try to fix it right now, just get some more answers and perhaps a little apology to the people of Turtle Mountain and a promise that this wont happen again.

In other words - we must not speak of the truth again. It might hurt someone’s feelings.

You guys are asking the impossible. Rob either gets blamed for pointing out the problems or he gets blamed for ignoring them. It matters not what he does or says since you guys already have your narrative.

Misty Condiff said, You’re a White Republican. It’s as simple as that. (I’m not a racist either, my husband has the same two faults.)

So you’re not a racist even though you find white skin to be a “fault”? Are you kidding? You just defined racism with your response.

KK gets stupid, Well Rob, go and visit College Park in Atlanta, GA, North Minneapolis, or South Central in L.A., California, No matter where you go, you will see these same things so, don’t try to isolate these troubles to only Indian Reservations!!  After reading this article, I have come to the conclusion that “Rob” is a VERY ignorant man and he should do some more researching before making such False accusations!!!

Once again (this has already been said over and over), Rob has said that the problems listed are not isolated to the reservations. Since this has been stated so many times already, I can only conclude that you are the very ignorant one who should do some more researching before making such false accusations.

what your ancestors have done to my people!

How many centuries until you have to take responsibility for your own actions (or inactions)?

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

but you shouldn’t be so apt to point fingers at my people because of what your ancestors have done to my people!

I had missed that the first time I read it. I’d like to ask - whose ancestors? Do these people think that they have traceable bloodlines on us or what? Because if they do, I’d like to see it.

The hubris required to make that kind of ancestral assumption is nothing short of amazing, isn’t it? The balls on some people who can go off on Rob for his supposed ignorance and racism while at the same time making ignorant and racist comments. Some of you people are standing on your heads and telling the rest of the world that it is upside down.

likwidshoe—How wonderful your life must be to sit in judgement of those around you?  You defend Rob, over and over again, for the ridiculous things he said in that article that was written.  You seem to forget and to my knowledge this is the only article that is out there.  It doesn’t matter how many times he continues to deny that he didn’t mean everybody that lives on the reservation lives the conditions he described.  He wrote the article and that is what it implies because he doesn’t say anything else about anyone else.  The only place that I can find where he says otherwise is here on this website.  In fact, I found another link from The Dakota Beacon that looks exactly like this one except the start date is in Demember.  Again, the same denying is going on and the same defending by all of the champions of Rob. 

Okay, okay, okay!  Maybe all of us who disagree with Rob are wrong.  Rob, finally, did something that none of us Indians were able to do.  He was able to see the wrongs with the reservation and begin the process of changing them.  So, Rob, THANK YOU!  Because of your article, the people of the Turtle Mountain Reservation can NOW FINALLY begin working on changing what is going on.  Without you coming to our rescue and giving us, finally, a plan that is going to change everything, we would continue to live in the ghetto.  Your first idea was to take away all the government assistance (treaty right or otherwise), right?  Hmmmmm….Oh yeah, taking everything away hasn’t worked for the non-Indian sector of this country.  Got any other ideas because I believe that this one is in the process of failing right now for most of the people below the poverty line who live in the US.
Good thing we have all those non-Indian people telling what we need to do to fix our problems.  Otherwise, they might not get fixed!  I wouldn’t go to your house and tell you how to fix what is wrong.  Please offer us the same courtesy.  If you can’t offer us the same courtesy, then please, don’t do it in article.  If helping is what you want to do, go to a tribal council meeting, go to a school board meeting, stand at one of the area businesses and offer your advice

likwidshoe—Why is Misty Condiff a racist for giving her opinion of how she sees Rob and her husband?  You defend Rob for giving his opinion of how he sees the reservation which could be racist considering it was written by a White person.  You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.  Based on your comments, either both Misty and Rob are racists or they both are not.

Proof
Right back at you…how many centuries before you take responsibility for your actions or inactions?

Right back at you…how many centuries before you take responsibility for your actions or inactions?

I take responsibility for all my actions. I am not waiting for the government or anyone else to support me, take care of me, or take blame for any shortcomings or misfortunes I might have.

PS I don’t have the option of opening my own casino on any of my ancestral lands (or ancestral lands I can trade for new ancestral lands with a freeway offramp).

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

Right back at you…how many centuries before you take responsibility for your actions or inactions?

Why should any of us be held responsible for the actions of others?  Actions that have taken place years in the past?

I wasn’t alive back then, and neither were you Rae Marie.  Does it do us any good to cling to these past hostilities?  Why can’t we quit pointing fingers and focus on the problems we face today?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

You’re right I wasn’t alive back then.  However, I live with the consequences of the actions of those who lived before me and you. Do you?  I don’t think so because you are not Indian. 

I am not pointing fingers.  I don’t blame you or those on this blog for what was done to us in the past.  I take responsiblity for any and all of my actions.  My life is what it is because I did it.

Who says that we aren’t focusing on the problem besides you and the rest of your buddies?  Because we disagree with how you portrayed our reservation doesn’t mean we are in denial with what is going on and what needs to change.

Proof—Like I said before, I take responsiblity for all of my actions and inactions.  I have accomplished all of the things in my life because of me.  I didn’t get any of the handouts you seem to think are so readily available.  I support myself and my family without expecting anyone to give me handouts.

What the heck are you talking about, Proof?  Are you upset because Indians can open a casino or build a freeway ramp?  Is this what this is all about?  How much do you know about Indian people?  Have you done any research at all?  Why don’t you try reading about life in the boarding schools?  Read about life on the reservation when they first came to be.  Read about how the people were forced to live.

You’re right I wasn’t alive back then.  However, I live with the consequences of the actions of those who lived before me and you. Do you?

Yes, I do.  All of our tax dollars are what is funding the welfare state on the reservation, and the poverty/drugs/crime that exists there spills over into my community.

Who says that we aren’t focusing on the problem besides you and the rest of your buddies?

Maybe you are focusing on them, but I’m not seeing a lot of progress toward change.  I see rampant corruption in the tribal leadership, and continuing high levels of poverty and crime.

People do talk about the problems on the reservation, but one of my points in the original column was that their solutions to the problem are the wrong ones.  A welfare state only exacerbates and perpetuates the problem.  It doesn’t solve it.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

If this is true…

I am not pointing fingers.  I don’t blame you or those on this blog for what was done to us in the past.

Then why did you bring it up?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

What the heck are you talking about, Proof?  Are you upset because Indians can open a casino or build a freeway ramp?

Out in California, it seems that most of the “ancestral lands” the tribes were interested in “reclaiming” were convieniently located alongside freeway offramps. Oh, and by the way, they wanted to build casinos there! Must have been sacred Indian lands! Damn funny how the white man managed to build freeways by so many of them!

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

Where in any of the comments did I say that you or anybody else was to blame for the living conditions on the reservation?  I was commenting on your pointing fingers and past hostilities comment.
Your tax dollars?  You think that the people on the reservation don’t have to pay taxes?

This discussion is pointless.  You want Indians to take care of themselves and when they try to make changes, you get mad because they are.  Those treaty rights aren’t going to change.  The treaties were signed and whether you like it or not, they are a fact of life.  Deal with it.  If Indians decide to open a casino and make money to provide for their own needs, then your tax dollars won’t need to be used to help them.

they are a fact of life.  Deal with it.

Outhouses were a fact of life fifty to a hundred years ago. Some folks are capable of doing more than just “dealing with it”.

If Indians decide to open a casino and make money to provide for their own needs, then your tax dollars won’t need to be used to help them.

Millions (if not billions) have been made from Indian “gaming”. Why has this money not filtered down to the reservations?

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

Rae, you are making Rob’s point. Your sorrows come from the US Government. With the natural resources and arable land most Rezs have, there should be no unemployment or poverty on them. And yet it is Government that thwarts the attempts by individuals of the Tribes to prosper with these things. And they mismanage and waste the revenue from much of the economic activity they do allow.

Rob points out that these are also bad things, just like drug-abuse, unemployment, and poverty.

As you have said several times in this thread, education is the main key. Breaking BIA and Dept of Interior’s strangle hold over your economic development is the other.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Your tax dollars?  You think that the people on the reservation don’t have to pay taxes?

Rae, read my comment carefully.  This is what I said:

All of our tax dollars are what is funding the welfare state on the reservation, and the poverty/drugs/crime that exists there spills over into my community.

I was including your tax dollars in with mine.

This discussion is pointless.  You want Indians to take care of themselves and when they try to make changes, you get mad because they are.

I never get mad when people take care of themselves.  Why do you think I do?  Can you quote something I’ve written proving this point?

Those treaty rights aren’t going to change.  The treaties were signed and whether you like it or not, they are a fact of life.  Deal with it.

Those treaty rights are what’s causing Indians to be segregated from the rest of our society on isolated spots of land with little appeal to economic commerce.  The reservation system isn’t serving your people well, and I’m shocked that you would want to perpetuate something that has brought the Indians nothing but poverty and hardship.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

I was commenting to Proof, not you about the casino issue.  He is the one who seems angry.

When you said our taxes, how was I to know that you were including people on the reservation?  To me, “our” meant you and those like you.