Say Anything Blog

Steven Hayward- hey, isn’t he a senior fellow at the Pacific Research Institute?

Pacific Research Institute- hey, aren’t they the recipients of thousands of dollars in ‘contributions’ from ExxonMobile in a vain attempt to ‘discredit’ Global Warming?

Maybe the global warming extremists, known in the real world as reputable scientists, control the debate because they have science, not oil-industry contributions, on their side.

I don’t know.  Most of the Global Warming skeptics that I’ve known are bright, articulate individuals who think for themselves and contribute to the profits of Exxon/Mobile by purchasing gasoline, rather than receiving contributions from the company.

If you’re going to try to shoot the messenger, you’re going to need a lot more firepower… and a lot better aim as well.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Old he who must not be named can’t come up with any errors in the substance of the video.

Thanks for the confirmation.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Most of the Global Warming skeptics that I’ve known are bright, articulate individuals who think for themselves and contribute to the profits of Exxon/Mobile by purchasing gasoline, rather than receiving contributions from the company.

And yet, B1, the individual Whistler cites, the subject of his post, Steven Hayward, is a whore to ExxonMobile.

I’m sure all the GW skeptics I know are all bright, articulate, & well meaning, as well; it’s just the ones with PowerPoint presentations who get checks from people who have a vested interest in ‘debunking’ good science I’m skeptical of.

Whistler, ever since my girlfriend got DVR I’ve stopped watching commercial advertisements.

That includes ads from ExxonMobile.

Gee * another chance blown.

How about all of the phoney baloney scientist that whore themselves out to get the global warming grants which don’t go to global warming skeptics?

How about Algore looking to profit by forcing other people to buy carbon credits from his fraud of a business?

See we all can play this game.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Whistler, ever since my girlfriend got DVR I’ve stopped watching commercial advertisements.

I really don’t respect parasites that have to mooch off of their girlfriends.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Maybe the global warming extremists, known in the real world as reputable scientists, control the debate because they have science, not oil-industry contributions, on their side.

And maybe not.  Your assertion is typical of those that want to stifle voices that don’t agree with them.  No one knows for certain what causes climate changes but the one variable that is the least important is carbon dioxide levels as they represent only a small fraction of the atmosphere (less than 1 percent).  If anything it is the global warming advocates like Algore that create global warming myths that have no scientific backing.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

I really don’t respect parasites that have to mooch off of their girlfriends.

...and yet… you still try to argue.

Hey, the mortgage and the bills are all in my name, as is the checkbook. Girl just wanted to watch Lost and Medium at the same time.

Fringe benefit, we don’t have to subjugate ourselves to nonsense from people who are desperate to market their product to us.

Like manufactured political skepticism.

Your assertion is typical of those that want to stifle voices that don’t agree with them.

I would be more than happy to listen to a reputable scientist who is skeptical of global warming- provided he is not paid by the industry to be skeptical.

..and yet… you still try to argue.

No I’m making fun of you.  I can’t debate someone who has no substance to offer.

Speaking of making fun of you do you really think you’re the only one clever enough to have a DVR?

I suppose you’re going to put that on your resume.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

By the way, you know any?

...Steven Hayward, is a whore to ExxonMobile.

No more so than Eric Boehlert or Oliver Willis are “whores” to George Soros.  Or you are to whoever signs your paycheck, either.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Eric Boehlert or Oliver Willis are relevant, how?

We’re talking about a man who is paid to shill for an industry, to counter a prevalent ecological concern that has grave ramifications for this very powerful industry.

If you want to bring the thread OT because I’m calling a spade a spade, go for it.

In my opinion, the authenticity of Gore on Global Warming is not important. The genuineness of global warming is not proven but we cannot deny that the climate change in some parts of the world is causing problems to farmers in developing countries. Finding solutions to this problem is much more important than proving or disproving global warming. There should be less debates and more action.

...provided he is not paid by the industry to be skeptical.

Aye… there’s the rub.  What possible rationale would you have for presuming to know someone else’ motive?  Is it just remotely possible in your mind that a “reputable scientist” would be employed by Exxon/Mobil… never mind that one would have the temerity to disagree with you?  And what about a scientist in the employ of Exxon/Mobil who accepts the AlGore nonsense about global warming?  Are his motives also suspect because of the EIN on his W-2, or is that suspicion reseved solely for those who disagree?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Eric Boehlert or Oliver Willis are relevant, how?

The analogy was yours.  You can hardly complain about relevance merely because I have extended it to those on your side of the aisle.

Your accusation was that Hayward is paid specifically to “shill” for Exxon/Mobil.  I merely suggest that the same disqualification obviously applies to Oliver and Eric Boehlert, both of whom are paid by George Soros.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

We’re talking about a man who is paid to shill for an industry, to counter a prevalent ecological concern that has grave ramifications for this very powerful industry.

Where is the proof our your slanderous statement?

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

The genuineness of global warming is not proven but we cannot deny that the climate change in some parts of the world is causing problems to farmers in developing countries.

I think the record shows that the climate has always changed.  I don’t know that we can stop the natural cycles of the Earth.

Finding solutions to this problem is much more important than proving or disproving global warming. There should be less debates and more action.

Well I think we should be certain that our action helps more than it hurts.  It seems that government action actually results in the opposite effect of what they want to accomplish.

One example today.  Man made global warming is said to cause future crop failures and the starving of the worlds poor.  So to fix that we are to burn cleaner fuels such as ethanol in order to save them.

Of course that has already almost doubled the price of corn.  That may not affect you or me, but it sure makes it tough for the poor to feed themselves.

So in order to prevent future starvation we are starving the poor.

Great moments in government meddling dont’ you think?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

B1-

Aye… there’s the rub.  What possible rationale would you have for presuming to know someone else’ motive?

Here’s a simple answer for you: if someone is payed by an industry to refute the negative ramifications of that industry, than that is a possible rationale for presuming his motive.

DD-

Where is the proof our your slanderous statement?

Heh, I’ll forgive ‘our’ little freudian slip.

Here you are, ‘doc’:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pacific_Research_Institute

Note the ES fellow as well as their corporate sponsors.

The nameless one STILL doesn’t have a factual argument.

What a surprise.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Nameless one? I’m sure your mom named you ‘The’ then, didn’t she??

Shorter Whistler:

Hey, check out this hour long video (made by a man employed by the oil industry) to counter claims that the oil industry’s product may be detrimental to the environment.

Shorter me:

Hey- he’s employed by the oil industry. I’m skeptical.

Shorter Whistler:

YOU HAVE NO FACTUAL ARGUMENT.

Whistler:

What is wrong with these facts?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pacific_Research_Institute

If you can refute the fact that this Hayward hack is not being paid by ExxonMobil or Scaife (Gulf) then you will have proved your point that I have no facts to offer.

I’ve got another fact for you, ‘The,’ who once told the National Review the following:

“No. It is a great myth that SUVs are greater polluters. True, they use more gasoline, but they now have the same emissions standards as all other automobiles, so replacing your old clunker with a new SUV will actually help clean up ozone smog in America. Because they use more gas, they do emit more carbon dioxide, but remember, carbon dioxide is not a noxious pollutant, but plant food.”

Now THAT is some rock-solid science AND logic right there.

http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/hayward200504220744.asp

...if someone is payed (sic) by an industry to refute the negative ramifications of that industry, than (sic) that is a possible rationale for presuming his motive.

Perhaps a more elementary approach will resonate with you… Please establish factually that the payments alluded to are for the specific purpose of “refut(ing) the negative ramifications of that industry.”

Unwittingly… an enormously appropriate adverb… you are “presuming his motive” by “presuming his motive.”

Apparently, reasoned obfuscation ain’t exactly your strong suit either.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Yes, B1, ‘presuming his motive’ happens to mean ‘presuming his motive.’ Last time I checked, people are paid to do what their employers want.

He is paid by the oil industry. And believe it or not, they have an agenda.

Please enlighten us using your ‘elementary approach’ as to why this hack is an impartial authority worth an hour of my time?

And please, don’t let facts or common sense continue to get in your way.

In one corner, melting glaciers, fluxuating climate systems, and the entire scientific community.

In the other, a group of hacktanks sponsored by ExxonMobil and Scaife. Oh, and an author notable for writing hit books about cloning dinosaurs.

Flail on.

In one corner, melting glaciers, fluxuating climate systems, and the entire scientific community.

That’s what you’ve got.

In case you weren’t paying attention the glaciers on the south pole are getting thicker.  (Proof that you’re wrong.)

The climate has always fluctuated.  One again proof that you’re wrong.

And there is no consensus of the scientific community only among socialists. 

Sure took a while for you to actually come up with something.  Pity it was so stupid.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

*,

Fully half the problem with Global Warming zealotry is the irrational twits like you who are trying so desperately to convert the more rational half of humanity.

Look, if you’ve really got “then entire scientific community” behind your point of view, a little thing like actually PROVING your assertion about the motives of those who disagree with you ought to be as easy as pi.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

3.14159265358979

After that I have to look it up.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

No, no, *, that link doesn’t prove a thing.  Besides like most thinktanks they get money from a variety of sources.

In 2003 PRI states that 50% of its income came from foundations, 13% from corporations and the remainder from individuals.  It lists foundation and corporate supporters who contributed over $10,000 in the 2003 financial year as:

You insinuated that the man is fabricating evidence against Algore’s global warming claims for the oil companies.  That is what I want you to prove.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Of course lefties can’t debate the facts so they have to smear the messenger.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Maybe the global warming extremists, known in the real world as reputable scientists, control the debate because they have science, not oil-industry contributions, on their side

Says who?

Most of the names on the IPCC list are not even scientists.
Many are positioning themselves for government grants.  And seriously, if you are smart enough to work for a mega corporation as a top rated scientist, you are definately qualified to your PROFESSIONAL opinion.

Most of the names on the IPCC list are not even scientists.

The IPCC is a political organization, not a scientific organization.  Unfortunately.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

You insinuated that the man is fabricating evidence against Algore’s global warming claims for the oil companies.  That is what I want you to prove.

OK Doc:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_F._Hayward

This man has asserted that SUVs are better for the environment, and he’s being paid by the fossil fuel industry.

What more needs to be said? I’m not smearing the messenger, I’m just presenting the facts.

What, other than wishful thinking, can any of you offer to refute that human-generated fossil fuel emmissions are disturbing global climate patterns?

What, other than wishful thinking, can you offer to refute the fact that Hayward is a hack? I didn’t say watching this hour long video was a waste of your time, I said it was a waste of mine. I’d be happy to watch it if you can provide a qualitative answer as to why this man is NOT a hack.

I see a lot of name calling. Why are y’all getting so defensive? I’m no angel, my car gets 32 mpg and I leave the lights on sometime, myself; but what’s with the willfull ignorance?

This man has asserted that SUVs are better for the environment, and he’s being paid by the fossil fuel industry.

No he said that trading in an old car for a new SUV would be better for the environment.  You posted that yourself.  Try to work on your reading comprehension.

What, other than wishful thinking, can any of you offer to refute that human-generated fossil fuel emmissions are disturbing global climate patterns?

It’s actually up to you guys to prove that it is happening which you haven’t done.  We remain skeptical but don’t discount the possibility.

What, other than wishful thinking, can you offer to refute the fact that Hayward is a hack?

Mostly because he gives very good information that you’ve been unable to dispute.  That’s why you’ve resorted to the smear technique.  It’s a pretty good technique for the gullible, but it ain’t working here.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Earth Week, 2007

It was a beautiful day, the sun was warm, the air was cool and dry and it was Earth Week. Best of all it was the weekend and I was at the cabin. Whenever I am lucky enough to retreat north I take a little time to walk the “estate”, all glorious three acres of it.

Only, on this occasion I came across a trespasser, a natural born vandal, and all twenty five pounds of thorny indifference…a porcupine.

There it sat in the crotch of one of my best trees with all the bark stripped from tree top to mid section. A quick inspection of neighboring trees indicated that he/she, (a risky confirmation) had been dining quite well on my little forest. Now what do I do?

After all, it was Earth Week. If I blast the little bugger with a shot gun I run the risk of engaging the wrath of PETA. If I leave it alone then more of my trees will be killed and the planet will suffer the immeasurable cataclysm of CO2 and Global Warming. What a conundrum.

Then it came to me, my epiphany. I could move him to another patch of woods. I could pass my problem on to everyone else. Al Gore would be proud to know that his personal example of self sacrifice has inspired yet another person. So I gently knocked the little bugger out of the tree, wrapped it up in a plastic tarp, tied it tight with a bungee cord and hauled his little tree killing arse several miles away and released him/her.

But now I’m filled with remorse. Porcupines kill trees, trees filter out CO2, CO2 causes global warming (ask Al), and I set the violator free. Now, I need to purchase some carbon offsets to deal with my guilt. 

When I let that prickly rodent go I swear I could hear a polar bear cry.

*, Try this for a list of global warming skeptics and scientists, I’m sure they aren’t all dependent on oil money for their research funds.
I, personally, believe that global warming is a threat to our civilisation (probably more so than islamic terrorism). I’m not sure that it is anthropogenic, because it is not proven. I still take steps to limit my impact on the environment, but not because of a belief in MMGW, rather because of my conservative ethics.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

*, you still have proven a thing.  Maybe you are hanging on this statement in the link you provided.

The American Enterprise Institute and Pacific Research Institute are both heavily funded by oil billionaires Koch Industries, and Richard Mellon Scaife (Gulf Oil).

Anyway it doesn’t matter where the money is coming from since you haven’t proved that any of Haywords statements are false.  But keep flaying away because your credibility can’t get much lower.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

The Whistler-

Mostly because he gives very good information that you’ve been unable to dispute.  That’s why you’ve resorted to the smear technique.  It’s a pretty good technique for the gullible, but it ain’t working here.

I note that I’m the only one to have posted any statements this hack has made. I reserve the right to call him a hack because until now, the only evidence to the contrary is your supposition that he gives ‘very good information.’

Information such as SUVs are better for the environment than cars. Read the rest of the NRO article I provided and come back and teach me something about reading comprehension.

Man of fire and light, I’ve quickly browsed your link and will peruse it more thoroughly later. It does have a few names, but a lot of foundations. Although I remain skeptical, I’d like to applaud you for being the first adult global warming skeptic on this thread.

It is ironic that conservatism and conservation are rooted in the same word. It is this departure from Teddy Roosevelt’s ethos that is one demonstration that modern movement conservatism is a lie. The other being the fiscal prudence of the modern Republican Party.

Chiropractor Dave:

Anyway it doesn’t matter where the money is coming from since you haven’t proved that any of Haywords statements are false.  But keep flaying away because your credibility can’t get much lower.

As the only person to have quoted Hayward, I challenge you to go up thread and read it; in fact, read the whole NRO link. Feel free to move your lips silently as you do if it helps you understand it.

A guide to help you understand:

Not true = false.

Information such as SUVs are better for the environment than cars.

When did he say that?  You really should read what you post. 

This is what you put up on your comment at 12:33.

so replacing your old clunker with a new SUV will actually help clean up ozone smog in America.

What’s untrue about that?  Lots of old clunkers are big polluters.

What are you going to claim next that CO2 isn’t a plant food?

Please keep it up *, you’re really a great display of the vapidness of the global warming activists.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

*, twit, I don’t have to depend on Hayword for refuting the global warming bs since there is absolutely no ‘real’ scientific support for Algore global warming catastrophy predictions.  Is the climate change - yes; is mankind forcing the change—no.  Can mankind contribute to the changes - open question but probably marginally.  Is mankind altering the surface of the planet - yes but most of the planet is covered with water which has a much greater affect on the weather than does land masses.

So * you a long on rhetoric and very short on knowledge.  I’ve wasted enough time with you.  Adios.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.