Oh, no worries, Zsa Zsa, I’ve always preferred a bit of anonymity!  Besides I hate myself in pictures! 

Note that it says "sex," Dave, NOT "bodily modification."  Mr. (yes, MR.) McBeth is still biologically a man.  On the other hand, his self-inflicted mutilation may indicate something of a disability, both mentally and physically speaking, so one might be able to invoke the ADA here.

Which, of course, does nothing to reassure me that he ought to be paid as a teacher. 

My Gosh that’s Scary!

Excellent posts, Tammi. I know virtually nothing about trans-sexuality (beyond the fact that it’s wrong to discriminate against them, even if they are different from me; I learned that lesson when I was 6), so I appreciate encountering someone with some knowledge on the subject.

Ned: A few cut-and-paste procedures can’t make a man into a woman.  It’s a guy.  I just think it’s creepy for the kids.

Robert, I’m sorry for interjecting, but if children are judging people by their exterior, parents aren’t doing their job…  We live in a diverse world!  Exposure to people different than themselves does not create the adverse effect you are suggesting.  Instead it helps them understand diversity and appreciate how different and special each one of us is.  Hopefully, they learn that it’s the insides that counts?  Anyways, that’s what I teach my students!

Tammi: The reason there are so few transsexuals around is that they are on the extreme fringe of human sexuality.  Think about it: Very few people are "troubled" about whether they are a man or a woman;  they just accept whatever organs they are born with.  Out of those very few who are somehow not in harmony with their physical sexual identity, only a very few of those choose to have something surgical done about it.  If transsexuality were common, the human race would not survive, at least in the numbers we have now.

Shorter Whistler:

"Anyone different will poison my kids."

Tammi: I’m not sure what the nature of your gripe is.  You use a lot of loaded words like "tolerance", but since this person, despite being quite unusual, is on the job, so maybe the tolerance would be better applied to your attitude toward those who are exercising their free speech rights on the subject.  I don’t thing "we" are "making" this person do anything.  Those of us who are uncomfortable with the situation, for any reason, shouldn’t be made to feel bad because we have a bad reaction to something so unusual.  I think it’s called diversity of opinion.  I think I have a right to express myself, last time I looked at the Constitution.

Hey, but I thought that I could just "say anything!"  Really, do I have to back it up with FACT???

Dave: When it comes to teaching, I think the appearance of the teacher is important.  I think the impression the teacher makes on the children is important.  This person could be moved into some other position, and still have a job, just not one who is teaching children who are also learning by example, as kids do.  I don’t agree that it is "necessary" to show what someone else has determined to be "tolerance".  We don’t all agree with what that means.  Sounds like dictatorship to me.

What makes him/her above creepiness? 

How much communication is non-verbal?  Over 70%…  We are visual beings.  Period! 

Funny, CV…  why don’t you just drop me a line sometime at 1-800-HOTTIES!

Perfect!

Now about the e-mail address where you can send photos . . .

 

 

Just link to the picture.  No need to scare people away.

Sorry for the repeat – dang computers!

I understand how some people are creeped out by transsexuals.  I don’t think there are many transsexuals running around flaunting themselves (probably from fear of violent rejection).  Unfortunately, the fact that they are not so present in the public eye keeps people from understanding them.  And of course that lack of understanding or opportunity to learn about them breeds the fear of the unknown.  I don’t know how to rectify that situation.  I’m saddened that there’s not more tolerance and I can’t even begin to imagine how a transsexual copes in this world.

Hey, but I thought that I could just "say anything!"  Really, do I have to back it up with FACT???

Tammi, don’t bet on it.  The hypocrites don’t want you ugly, that’s for sure, but if you’re too good-looking, then they’ll accuse you of distracting the boys (or girls) and luring them into temptation.  You won’t be able to win any way you go.

I agree that most teachers are probably liberals (they are at my school).  I think it comes from being in the field…  But, I don’t believe many teachers would dare to talk politics with their students.  There are too many legal repercussions nowadays. 

i think that she should not be criticized by nobody.  Only She knows why she did it and her sexuality is not what is going to be taught in the classroom.  People should learn to respect the decisions of others and live on with their lives.

I am not saying that anybody should be prevented from teaching if they are qualified to do so but I should not have to be "OK" with it.

When you say that, that’s fine. (The idea of transsexuality sounds just as "icky" to me.) We’re talking about people like Rob and others who say that this teacher should NOT be allowed to teach.

Oh, good…  I was getting worried that I was going to have to back this stuff up! 

I never said there was anything wrong with being uncomfortable with it.  It’s hard to be comfortable with something that’s so unfamiliar – that’s understandable.  My only point is that they should not be discriminated against.  Feel free to express your discomfort or even your disapproval.  It’s not necessary to approve of others; however, it is necessary to show tolerance. 

When it comes to teaching, I think the appearance of the teacher is important. 

robert, sometimes you make it too easy . . .

• who is going to judge teacher appearance?  
• do we need a national teacher appearance conformity panel and another big-government organization to oversee how teachers look?  
• what happens when teachers have surgery or get into accidents or just get old?  old teachers are uglier, perhaps we should drop them after age 40 . . . or 30 if kids are upset by how old a 30-year-old teacher looks.

New idea, think about what you want to say, type it, then read it once to see if it sounds stupid.

What happens with a trans-sexuals birth certificate and identification. What if they want to go out of the country? Is that a problem? What about voting Soc. Sec., medical ins.etc.??? What about college degrees and diplomas? How do they deal with transcripts? Don’t those things create problems indentifying a person?…How does their death certificate work? Seem like it would be rather confusing???…

I would imagine gender reassignment might be more difficult than just using another name?

Well, from what I know about it, it is like feeling one way inside and having your outsides not match up.  Sometimes it creates such total discord, that a person must change his/her outside to match.  It is the only way to find a sense of self, an inner peace for some.  I don’t believe they can change who they are, but at least they have the ability with today’s science to change their bodies.  Besides, it’s what’s on the inside that counts, what defines someone’s character, not how they look.  I can’t imagine what it’s like to live every day feeling like your body isn’t your own, like it doesn’t fit.  I think that’s what helps me understand the need for some of them to go through the long and complicated procedure to transform themselves.  I would equate it with someone who was born with an extra body part or something.  Should we make them live their entire life with such a deformity or do we use the science we have acquired to help them?

Tammi: I’m sure you are a good teacher.  Unfortunately, being from CA, I have direct knowledge of this cr*p going on all the time.  My little sister is a schoolteacher in the Bay Area, and what goes on there regularly would curl your hair(unless it’s already curly).  I wish you were right, but it’s really much worse than you think.

Then clearly, you have been indoctrinated. Don’t believe me? Then look at the stupid, braindead crap you have posted in comment here over the last week.

Rick: I wrote: "Dave: When it comes to teaching, I think the appearance of the teacher is important.  I think the impression the teacher makes on the children is important." (emphasis added)  You conveniently left out the second statement, which is my entire point.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with me imposing anything on anyone;  I simply ask if having this particular teacher in the classroom is making a good impression on the kids.  I notice you completely avoided my question, instead using name-calling and insult to attempt to avoid my real point.  Can you now tell me how this will affect the kids? Or maybe you don’t think the impression the teacher makes on the kids is important.  I’s hard to tell, because you didn’t deal with that issue.

Then you wrote: "

robert, sometimes you make it too easy . . .

• who is going to judge teacher appearance?  
• do we need a national teacher appearance conformity panel and another big-government organization to oversee how teachers look?  
• what happens when teachers have surgery or get into accidents or just get old?  old teachers are uglier, perhaps we should drop them after age 40 . . . or 30 if kids are upset by how old a 30-year-old teacher looks.

The kids.

No, and i never said anything to that effect.

I never mentioned age, surgery, or any of that stuff.  I was quite specific in my concerns:  Dresses like a woman, sounds and acts like a man.

So, Rick, you made no points, you just asked questions that had nothing to do with what I wrote.  Instead of answering my specific concern, the presence of a transsexual person in a classroom(the theme of this thread), you attempt to distract with a personal attack on me.  Not impressive.

"effect on the poor children" is not a quote from me.

I never advocated forcing my will on others.  I wrote:  "This person could be moved into some other position, and still have a job, just not one who is teaching children who are also learning by example, as kids do."

Once again, no forcing, so that’s a lie from you. No "poor" children, just kids that are learning by example in the classroom.  I ask again, what example is being given here, and is it in the best interests of the children?  That is my only concern.

Tammi: I don’t agree with your opinions about what I consider classroom indoctrination by example.  Thanks for sharing, though.  I’m sure you are a good teacher, and a good example for your students. 

 

I had many uglier substitute teachers (remember, he/she is a sub, not a regular classroom teacher) in my day.

As for the confusion issue I would think that keeping he/she out of the classroom until the next school year would take care of much of that.

My final question/statement is this:  If the material to be taught does not in any way deal with human sexuality, how is the teacher’s "gender identity" any issue?  Unless one believes that this person changed identities to somehow hide rampant pedophilia, I fail to see the problem.  If he/she, as a substitute teacher, can meet the school district’s expectations of a substitute teacher (IIRC, ending the day with the school not a smoking hole in the ground met that standard), where’s the beef (other than in the surgical trash can)?

How do you propose that she hide her transsexuality, Dave? 

And, Zsa Zsa, thanks for the kind words on our profession.  Teachers are blamed for so much of the problems with our kids…  Teachers are more qualified and better trained than ever before, but they never stop hearing how it’s their fault the educational system is failing.  There are many things wrong with our system, but teachers would be the least of them in my opinion.  Of course, I’m biased! 

If you don’t think that’s distracting you’re a moron. 

People who stutter are distracting. People with severe facial disfigurations are distracting. Obese people are distracting. Transsexuals are distracting.

How about we base our hiring and firing decisions on aptitude, rather than how "distracting" each person is, eh?

Tammi, I agree teachers really do have to walk on egg shells! It is too bad you all have to spend so much time on things that don’t even apply to the subjects! It is unfortunate that people make fun of others too. Our world could use a big dose of compassion. If it makes her or him happy? It is ultimately up to the person. As long as it doesn’t harm another person??? I say ok by me!… I really do feel for teachers.

Rob:

I keep forgetting that you think workers have NO rights, while zygote’s have lots of rights.

Robert, I agree entirely that that particular teacher stepped way over the line.  I would be very surprised if he’ll be able to keep his job.  I’m sure you can let me know about that…  However, that isn’t common practice. 

Man, think of what I could write on those blank slates???    (Don’t worry!  I’ve been very conscientious about not going near those subjects!  They don’t even know for whom I voted…)

I didn’t know workers had a right to perform whatever body modifications they choose and still maintain a job. 

You didn’t? Civil Rights Act of 1964 ring a bell?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00002000—e002-.html

It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer—      (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Tammi… AND, you never know what these guys might do with those pictures!!!!! Every one of them seem very bratty to me?(Even Tom)

I think midgets are creepy for the kids.

Nothing against her/his intellect or teaching credentials, just against hir ability to successfully teach around the distraction he creates.

I don’t think keeping people who can’t figure out the status of their own genitals away from schools is bigoted, nor do I think it implies that I am against gay/lesbian teachers.

Homosexuality is fine by me.  Not my scene, but whatever.  The difference, though, is that this dude is bringing his freak show into the classroom.  Last time I checked, lesbian teachers weren’t making out with their partners in the middle of math.

1) So are midgets!

Midgets aren’t transsexuals.

2) I highly doubt that s/he’s exposing hir genitals to hir students. If that is the case, I’m with you 100%. That’s just wrong! However, on the off-chance that this teacher is not a nudist, I’m going to have to disagree with you.

The kids know this lady was a dude before.  Its both distracting and presents an inappropriate role-model.

So yes, he’s bringing his freak show into the classroom.

Don,

I don’t believe that Ms. McBeth was "making out with [her] partners in the middle of math." Did I miss that part of the story, or were you just being an asshole?

I wasn’t accusing big freaky of making out with anybody, just pointing out how I don’t have a problem with homosexual teachers since its not like they are bringing their sexuality into the classroom. 

The bottom line is that you advocate job discrimination against OTHERS based on YOUR fears and uneasiness. And that makes you a bigot.

Actually, no it doesn’t.  If I, as an employer, don’t want a transsexual working for me I don’t have to hire one.  Nor do I have to hire some kid with pink, spiked hair and a spike through his nose.  These people have chosen to do these things to themselves, and I can dang well choose not to hire them based on it. 

No bigotry involved. 

Davey, the law states that I can’t discriminate you for being a dude.  It doesn’t say that can’t discriminate against you because you had your penis surgically removed and started dressing like a girl.

Well, being a teacher…  I guess it’s a damn good thing that I’m a hot-looking blond!

Tammi, this is your subjective opinion.  We here at Say Anything like to base our opinions on hard facts.

Please send photos and I will post them. For the sake of the accuracy of this debate, of course.

I have to agree with the previous comment. I could see coming back in a few years when no one would know the difference, but coming back immediatley? That could definitley scar some students.