Supreme Court To Hear Appeal In Military Funeral Protest Case

The Westboro Baptist Church (the “God Hates Fags” and “Thank God For 9/11″ folks) was sued by the family of a slain Marine for protesting at that Marine’s funeral and causing the family emotional distress. The family is also claiming an invasion of privacy.
Initially the family got a $5 million judgment against the church. That judgment was vacated by an appeals court, and the family has pushed the case to the Supreme Court.
This is an important case for a lot of reasons, and though it pains me to admit it, I tend to come down on the side of the Westboro Baptist folks.
I’ve long said that one of the things that makes me the most proud of America is the fact that the Ku Klux Klan and the Westboro Baptist Church and other hateful, bigoted organizations can stage protests legally. Because the true test of freedom, I think, isn’t whether we allow speech that most of us find non-objectionable but whether or not we allow speech that most of us find objectionable. Freedom means freedom, and even hateful, bigoted idiots have 1st amendment protections.
That being said, the family in this case has some legal protections as well. The constitution protects their right to peacefully assemble. It also protects their right to practice their religion (funerals are a traditionally religious service).
So whose rights are more important in this case? The WBC’s free speech rights? Or the family’s right to peacefully assemble?
Though I’m certainly more sympathetic to the family, my answer would be that neither group’s rights trump the others. So how should SCOTUS rule?
I’d like to see the matter left up to the individual states. I think that the states (or political subdivisions thereof) can pass laws that limit, but do not prohibit, protests at military funerals so that the right of the WBC idiots to protest is not prohibited, but neither is the right of the family to assemble and mourn the loss of their loved one in accordance with their religious beliefs.
Really, this isn’t a matter for the federal government. Because it’s not the government that’s infringing upon anyone’s rights here. This is a dispute between two private parties, and one that state law should address. And if there is a question about whether or not state law goes too far in restraining one party or the other, then the courts should step in.

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  • http://Array Lioncourt

    Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress is a recognized tort. The first amendment protects you from government action, it does not protect you from being sued in civil court.

    The reason this is in federal court is because WBC is based in Kansas and the family is in Maryland as well as it being a $5,000,000 lawsuit. Federal court has jurisdiction. It is likely Maryland State law that was the basis for the lawsuit.

  • sayanything-287

    I hate everything these people say and do and while I hate no one, I do pray they would come to their senses. It is disgusting!

    The families burying fallen soldiers don’t deserve this filth, on the other hand they all died so that even people like these obnoxious rectal sphincters at Westboro could be free to engage even in this hateful speech. So in an odd way the idiotic, hateful behavior of these people at these funerals only increases the sense of the debt we owe to our soldiers and brings them even extra honor. I know that sounds strange and I would certainly prefer this not happen, but I am so proud our soldiers died even for the free speech of Westboro fools.

  • sayanything-287

    With one exception, states passing laws in these cases, I agree with your approach to this matter. It seems to me Rob that you are advocating that the States, may in some ways limit the exercise by citizens of the Bill of Rights within their borders. If free speech, freedom or worship and other such rights can in any manner be limited by the states, then it seems to me that those rights do not really exist at all as rights, except when on federal property. IMO that would also mean those that suggest the Second Amendment may be abridged by states or local communities are right.

    If my right to exercise free political speech can be subjected to civil suits solely because it causes anyone emotional distress, then again those free speech rights do not exist at all. As, anyone can claim emotional distress and by thus causing a prohibitive financial burden on the person in expressing those speech rights, unless they are wealthy, in effect, it creates an annulment of that right.

    It seems to me that when there are competing rights, each party must be accorded reasonable accommodations; that is, each must as far as it is possible be allowed unrestricted rights. Otherwise, once again those rights do not exist at all.

    When we start down the road of placing unconstitutional limits on any of the Bill of Rights, then IMO those rights no longer exist, except as man through an ever changing standard permits those rights to exist in some limited form. Yet, I can find no words in the Bill of Rights allowing the Congress to in any manner pass any law to abridge those rights in the smallest way; and if that is so, then absent such a federal law or amendment, I do not see how the states or communities have any Constitutional basis for passing any such local laws, including allowing law suits for emotional distress.

    As you suggested it can get messy at times, but our experiment in democracy has never been a tidy business and we should all be very, very concerned when anyone tries to make those rights less messy to enforce, as it will always result in a loss of rights, NEVER an addition to or strengthening of those rights.

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Well, Rob. This is a strange day. You and Neiman are siding with the ACLU, and I am opposing them.

  • sayanything-287

    The Bill of Rights to have any real value requires the majority of our citizens to be passionately dedicated to their defense, not allowing the slightest breach thereto, lest the breach becomes a floodgate.

    It is easy to say there are limits, but two facts are very important to consider: (1) The Bill of Rights does not contain language allowing any such limits and it strictly prohibits Congress from ever changing that clear language by any laws, to impose any such limits. Only the people through the means specified in the Constitution may amend them! (2) Who is to say what those limits should be? Liberals? Conservatives? Probably the Supreme Court, right? The problem is, if the Court is predominately conservative or liberal, the majority in power will have different ideas and impose different limitations and those limits will be problematic in that, each limit will require further amplifications and create new limits and on and on it will go without end. With even the smallest limitation being imposed, how will everyday citizens know what those rights really are and be able to stand upon them against the overwhelming power of the State?

    Wisely the Bill of Rights imposes no such limits, thus taking it out of the hands of political parties or ideologies or the whims of mere, fallible men. No, if any real harm results from their being exercised, the framers left it to the wisdom of the people in such cases to impose limits by the pressures of society placed upon the miscreants that abuse those rights.

    I am sorry to disagree, but as has been suggested here, those rights are there to protect the most extreme and abrasive forms of speech, for the most objectionable people; with the only acceptable limitation being the idea of not being able to cry fire in a crowded theater and causing physical injuries or deaths, by a frivolous misapplication of those rights.

  • Lioncourt

    About the Lindsey Lohan case I saw this on another Blawg:

    “Your so vain, you probably think this ad is about you.”

  • sayanything-7134

    The second coming might be closer Neiman. I have agreed several times now. You stated it very well. Those soldiers died for the idiots freedom. Thats the shame.

  • sayanything-7134

    Nieman, I agree with you and Rob on Freedom of Speech. Rob showed his disgust for the message but I see you didn’t say if you condone the message or don’t (I agree with Rob). What are you feelings on their message and methods.

  • sayanything-7406

    I agree with Rob’s analysis. Now that being said I think that ‘church’ is abominable and disgusting.

  • sayanything-57997

    I am all for the freedom of speech as well as the rest of the Bill of Rights, but there are limits as to what someone can say about someone else. I may have the right to free speech, but I DON’T have the right to defame someone, or I could get hit with a slander lawsuit. That’s where the right to free speech has its limitations.

  • sayanything-1317

    Actually, depending on who the person is, and depending on what you say, you do indeed have the legal right to defame people. If the person is a public official, you are free to lie about them to your hearts content. I know this seems weird, but it’s true.

    Even with private citizens, the right to lie is acceptable as long as it doesn’t cause the person some damage. The lie can be brutal, horrible, and downright evil, but if it doesn’t cause harm, the person has no recourse.

    Freedom of speech was made to protect offensive and unpopular speech. This idea that people have a right to not be offended or angered has led to such stupid cases as this:

    http://omg.yahoo.com/news/lindsay-lohan-suing-e-trade-for-milkaholic-parody/37130?nc

  • sayanything-3444

    The use of the funeral of a fallen soldier to make any kind of political or moralizing statement is despicable, no matter who the exploiting party. That these heroes gave their lives in defense of the right for fools and wise men to be able to speak their minds freely is a point that should not be disputed by anyone. When people like those at Westboro do something this low, it should be shunned and condemned by everyone. There is a time and a place for everything under the First Amendment, even this kind of disgusting display of non-Christian intolerance, but intrusion into the grief of a family over the loss of their loved one is beyond unacceptability. It is truly a shame that many these days have no shame.

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