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Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Socialism On The Campaign Trail

Hillary is upset that “we” aren’t rewarding workers enough.

“We also have to reward work more,” Clinton told a small group of Ohio residents today. “and by that, I mean, I have people in New York working on Wall Street as investment managers, as hedge fund executives. Under the tax code, they can pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes on $50 million dollars, than a teacher, or a nurse, or a truck driver in Parma pays on $50,000. That’s very discouraging to people.”

Denver Post columnist David Harsanyi responds:

I’m not an economist, but I’m relatively certain “we” don’t “reward” anyone for work, per se. Last I heard, folks negotiate the worth of a service or item in a competitive marketplace. (Though teachers typically work in a monopoly, but that’s another story.) You’re worth as much as someone is willing pay you. There is no way to remedy this truth without destroying the economy and allowing the government to decide who is worth what.

Quite right.

What always fascinates me about the proponents of big government is the level of economic illiteracy that goes along with it.  The very same people who complain about the price of gas at the pumps, or the price of food in the grocery stores, are the same people who complain about the wages people make.  They support things like the minimum wage not understanding that if the gas station or grocery store they shop at has to start paying employees higher, government-inflated wages the products they buy there are going to be more expensive.

We’d all like to see our fellow citizens be affluent and successful, but the reality is that the market only supports wages at a certain level.  If you start forcing those wages up the money has to come from somewhere, so that forces the cost of goods and services up as well.  What do we want?  $5.00/gallon gas and $4.00 loafs of bread while cashiers and shelf stockers make $15/hour?  Or the way things are now?

Comments

Hillary Clinton wants to “reward work” with higher taxes.

This woman doesn’t have logic or make any sense.

She’s a typical Democrat - ignorant of all things economic.

likwidshoe on February 19, 2008 at 07:56 pm

It’s actually straight-out Marxism.  In “Das Kapital”, Marx laborously tries to prove that all value in society is created by labor, with no contribution from capital, thus “The Labor Theory of Value”.  He then goes on to claim that workers should get all the proceeds from their labor, and if they don’t, it’s not “social justice”.  Hillary’s rhetoric is right in line with Karl’s view of the world.
In our system, value is calculated very simply: Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 08:05 pm

David Harsanyi responds:

I’m not an economist,

,
he’s not much of a reporter either.

Hedge fund managers take their money as capital gains. Their special.

WOOF on February 19, 2008 at 08:07 pm

Hedge fund managers take their money as capital gains.

Because that’s what they are.  Duh.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 08:14 pm

Putting one’s capital at risk demands a higher “reward”; a concept lost on the free lunch bunch.

Kevin on February 19, 2008 at 08:18 pm

Putting other peoples capital at risk is how hedge funds operate.

WOOF on February 19, 2008 at 08:48 pm

Do you put anything at risk? No, you get rewarded, no matter what and have no risk of loss!

Kevin on February 19, 2008 at 08:51 pm

Putting other peoples capital at risk is how hedge funds operate.

If that capital doesn’t make a profit, you get nothing, which is the risk you get paid for, so good management is profitable, bad management is not.  That’s why it’s capital gains, not drone salary work.  It’s called incentive.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 09:13 pm

capital doesn’t make a profit, you get nothing,

No, you get Fees.

WOOF on February 19, 2008 at 09:17 pm

No, you get Fees.

It’s not the way to make a living.  Try to know something about economics and finance before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 09:34 pm

Harsanyi makes some true statements, you try to change the subject.  Typical leftie sleaze game.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 09:35 pm

I spoke directly to H’s column.
He’s wrong on progressive income taxes eating up hedge fund managers earnings.

I find Hillary’s contention that a hedge fund executive pays less in taxes than a nurse – even percentage-wise – remarkably dubious. A hedge fund hotshot, at the very least, is double taxed on his earning and pays a higher rate of income tax due to our progressive tax system.

WOOF on February 19, 2008 at 09:45 pm

Saint Chelsea works for a hedge fund and Mr. “Two Americas” will go back to work for one, now that he was rejected by voters again.
Hypocrisy be thy name!

Kevin on February 19, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Finally, a logical argument from you, Woof!  It’s an irrelevant difference, though.  The reason capital gains income is taxed at a somewhat lower rate is because it is very productive income, and an important part of the reinvestment cycle, which is the lifeblood of our economic system.  Whether or not the aformentioned hedge fund manager pays additional income tax over his capital gains tax depends on how he has everything structured.  The truth is, Hillary, like all lefties, likes to use class envy buzzwords to emotionalize her rhetoric, and “hedge fund manager” is one of those buzzwords.  She wants her listeners to feel, not to think.

No one’s income should be “eaten up” by taxes in a free country founded on individual independence.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 19, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Avatar for halatbis

Hillary says, “I have people in New York working....” Since when has Hillary run a business where she meets a payroll?  Sounds like she has these people on her payroll.

halatbis on February 20, 2008 at 10:16 am
Avatar for jpe

Putting one’s capital at risk demands a higher “reward”

And that’s why hedge fund managers shouldn’t get taxed at capital gains rates.  The carried interest is fee for service: in exchange for their labor, they get a cut of the profit.  They don’t cut a check to the fund the way the other partners do, who actually do have their property at risk.

jpe on February 20, 2008 at 11:02 am

They don’t cut a check to the fund the way the other partners do, who actually do have their property at risk.

If the other partners could manage the fund, or wanted to, they would.  In fact, things are worth what people are willing to pay for them; you and the govt don’t belong in there.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on February 20, 2008 at 11:10 am
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