Since When Is It Ok For The Government To Force People Out Of Their Homes?

aarp

One of the most powerful arguments in favor of Measure 2, which would abolish property taxes in North Dakota, is the idea that with property taxes in place we never really own our homes. Even after paying off our mortgages, the government expects that property taxes be paid. And if you stop paying them, perhaps because you got sick or you lost your job, they can take your home and force you out onto the curb.

If you have to make what amounts to rent payments to the government, facing eviction if you don’t pay, how can anyone say they own their property?

But the coalition of labor unions and big-government special interests who have come together to oppose Measure 2 want you to know that this is all rubbish. The AARP, specifically, reports that only eight people were kicked out of their homes in North Dakota in 2010, and that’s ok because none of them were elderly.

This is one of the most crassly insensitive things I’ve ever read.

On June 12, North Dakotans will choose whether to change the State Constitution, locking in a tax policy that replaces property taxes with an undetermined formula to be devised by the State Legislature. Proponents of the measure argue that eliminating property taxes is the only way to protect homeowners – particularly the elderly on fixed incomes – from being evicted by the government for non-payment of taxes.

In response to this oft-repeated claim, the North Dakota Association of Counties surveyed County Auditors to get the facts about foreclosures. What they learned is that foreclosures on occupied homes are extraordinarily rare. In 2010, only eight foreclosures statewide involved occupied or recently occupied homes, and none of the occupants were elderly.

It seems to me that one person being forced out of homes they own for non-payment is one too many.

By the way, notice the loophole the Association of Counties and the AARP give themselves in this study. They only count foreclosures on “occupied” homes. That no doubt excludes quite a few homes where the owners, knowing full well they face foreclosure, move out before those proceedings begin.

The property tax is a fundamentally unfair tax. It’s bad for North Dakotans, and the state’s senior citizens specifically, who are the most at-risk.

But the AARP and these other big-government interests care more about the loot than our property.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • headward

    We need to get rid of taxes like this.  I would also be for a VAT replacing the income tax.  We really don’t own our income.  The government is just nice enough to allow us to have some of it.

  • Robertfrost

    The AARP report is a response to loose members of Empower the Taxpayer like Charlene Nelson and Charles Tuttle telling the state that old people are being forced out of their homes everyday.  So, they made a false claim campaigning for Measure 2.  A lawsuit should follow, as that is the mantra of the Measure 2 supporters.

    • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

      Old people are being forced out of their homes every day—maybe not by the sheriff and foreclosure, but by their financial circumstances in the face of a high and ever-increasing property tax.  They see the writing on the wall, sell, and move into more modest (probably subsidized) housing.  They are indeed forced out.  Perhaps you share the attitude of a liberal friend of mine who responded to this problem as follows:

      “As far as people on fixed income are concerned, they do not have a right to live in their homes in perpetuity. If you are on a fixed income, you will struggle.  Why? Because costs go up. Heating, electricity, food and gas. What good is living in a house if you can’t heat it or pay the water and electric bills. These people do have options. They can down-size. They can take in a boarder. They can get a reverse mortgage.”

      F**k you!

      • thevoiceofreason

        People didn’t bother reading the section where he mentions the discrepancy in the report, so it’s pointless trying to explain to these people that an intelligent person would sell before being foreclosed upon. Why? Because it would be impossible for them to understand the actions of an intelligent person.

        • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

          Extremely well put.

      • opinionated

        Exactly… according to the AARP’s own site they say that most Reverse mortgages have come in the last 5 years… that 660 thousand of them have been made to the elderly… That 29% of that 660,0000 used it to pay property taxes… that the average age is 78 years old…. this is a crime..

        • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

          Useful, indeed.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The free market system sure has a way of profiting off of the elderly, forcing them out of their homes, everyday.

            What shall we do about that?

        • $8194357

          AARP is a crime…

          They talk a good show and then contribute to socialist politicians and agendas…

          Go figure…

        • Jimlucks34

          do you happen to have the link for the survey? I was following one of there surveys for a while and taxes were the elderly’s biggest concern. I can’t seem to find that one now either.

    • $8194357

      Suppose those “reverse morgages” taking up so much airtime on TV are fear mongering as well, huh?

      Bankers, lawyers and the state are going to own it all real soon…Just like 29, led to the dirty thirties…Wealth redistribution on a “grand scale”…

      The “art” of the “manufactured crisis”..

      • borborygmi

        Yep the reverse mortgage is definitely putting every thing into the bankers hands.   A great way to aquire property.

        • $8194357

          Yeah gurgle…
          It is what it is, huh?

    • SusanBeehler

      “Loose” like in meaning the ones they can’t brainwash into believing “we know what is best mentality.”   

    • opinionated

      If I live in a 100k home and you live in a $1,000,000 on the same street what is the million dollar home getting that the 100k is not?… same street, same sewer, same garbage man, same water supply! If I remodel my home why should the city benefit if I use granite instead of laminate… If I mow my yard and make the appearance neat for my taste why should the fact that it looks better than my neighbors penalize me with higher taxes? You really need to get a clue pal.. use your brain and cut the mantra

      • $8194357

        Penalized for being successful in the name of “fairness”..
        sucks don’t it..

      • borborygmi

        point taken but why would anyone build a million dollar house in a 100grand neighborhood.

        • $8194357

          Free will choice?

        • donwalk

          Maybe the million dollar house was built prior to the 100 grand house. Maybe the area was extremely rural in an unincorporated area, which later became developed with subdivisions, after the million dollar house had already been built.
          Maybe the million dollar home was built on a large tract of land that was located in the middle of several subdivision tracts and said tract of land had never been subdivided.
          There are all kinds of reasons available for the thinking person.
          Bottom line is, it shouldn’t matter in the realm of things.

          • borborygmi

            Why would you build a 100 grand house next to a Million dollar house?

          • http://nofreelunch.areavoices.com/ Kevin Flanagan

             For the million dollar view?

          • donwalk

            Because you want to be at the lower end of the valuation spectrum for the area. That way you will receive additional value and appreciation because the larger homes will carry you in their appreciation draft. Smaller homes in neighborhoods always fare better in that regard. They could both be farmers or ranchers in a rural area, naturally. Without huge zoning restrictions (most rural areas are more lenient) you build what you can afford. One may have a farm or ranch numbering in the thousands of acres while the other may have a much smaller farm or ranch numbering in the hundreds of acres. If you have driven through farming and/or rural areas you find this all of the time. It is really not very difficult to figure out.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Since When Is It Ok For The Government To Force People Out Of Their Homes?

  • Guest

    Rob, you are pulling this out of context.  The proponents of Measure 2 were making claims that elderly homeowners were being kicked out of their residences due to deliquent property taxes.  This statement was proving that the government wan’t forcing elderly folks out of their homes as the M2 proponents stated.

    Funny, you’re not using those claims in the correct context (which isn’t fair), just as you were criticizing the gender wage gap statistics for “not being fair”.  You seem to twist and turn stories just as much as the ‘news’ you are supposedly uncovering.

    • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

      Statements do not prove anything.  Facts do.  And the elderly are indeed forced out of their homes in various ways.  They get out preemptively.

      • borborygmi

        Such as when the rent goes to high in a free for all zone of the oil patch

        • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

          Your point?  This happens all over the country, all the time, under a variety of circumstances.  Let’s hear your solution.

          • borborygmi

            My point is I didn’t see a lot of support for those forced out because of high rent from the conservatives and now you bleat that oh look at the poor old people.  It seems a bit hypocritical.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Pure drivel.  What do “conservatives” have to do with the high rents?  Do you have a poll on the political orientation of landlords in the oil region?  Why is KIL ND waging a war against old people?

          • borborygmi

            Those people moved to ND because it was low rent; now that it’s successful, they have to find another cheap place to live.  Life goes on.      Right from the Conservatives Thread.  

          • Econwarrior

            So, what’s your Marxist solution?  Rent control, regulating and taxing away all economic growth?  Do you really think there are no other cheap places to live?  Do you think everyone is entitled to a home in perpetuity, immune from economic progress?
            You just hate the success of the American free enterprise system.
            How much of the situation of the “old people” is due to the failed scheme of “Social Security”?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Let me probe borbor’s soul for the answer.  Ah!  I’ve got it! me’s talking out of his ass!

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Personally, I know of no one who has moved to North Dakota because the rent is cheaper, do you?  What conservative thread?
            In urban areas how many millions have been displaced because of the development of cheap-rent areas.  Again, what is the political orientation of landlords?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            His point is that you don’t mind high rent from a conservative driving a person out of a house because they can’t keep up with increased rental fees.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            It is hypocritical.  They don’t mind blacks or minorities getting kicked out of their homes for not being able to keep up with their mortgage, but old white people being kicked out because they can’t keep up with their reverse mortgage…well, that’s different, because these are North Dakotans and we all know that there are few minorities in ND, so it’s much easier to show your outrage.

          • donwalk

            We can always rely on Hannitized to turn it into something racial. Not one posting has been directed towards any race, but here comes Hannitized as usual.
            The term elderly and old applies to everyone and all races, Hannitized. They are not terms applying only to elderly, or old white people.
            Why do you always try to make things into racial hating when there are no reasons to do so?
            Did you lose all of your other Democratic Talking Point Cards or what?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            It has long been established that hanni hates blacks and Native Americans.

          • Guest

             Don’t leave out the Jews, he really hates the Jews.

          • ellinas1

            Jews too? 
            You gotta be kidding me.
            What about Greeks?
            Does he hate Greeks?

          • Onslaught1066

             Who doesn’t?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yeah, sure.  But you are the guy who said that the idea of native Americans were given far to much credit for being considered “noble savages”.

            That’s racism, buddy.

          • ellinas1

            You don’t say!

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            I ‘fess up. Yep, that’s what I said.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Your racism, bigotry and prejudice reveal themselves in many ways.  Most of the time they are revealed in ways that you are not aware, because it’s just part of your nature.

          • Neiman

            This from a man who has played a part in enslaving generations of people of color to the Democrat Party welfare state plantation and tells them they are inferior, that they cannot make it without preferences, hiring quotas, lower standards of performance, etc,  what a hoot that a racist like you could call anyone a racist.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            That’s sheer fantasy on your part, Nieman.  But lying has become part of your nature, you are a sinner in your heart.

          • Neiman

            I am a sinner saved by grace, while you sir are a sinner as well,  have denied Christ and He said in His Word, He will deny you before the Father.

            You are not only guilty of the things above, which are absolute, unassailable facts, you are a conscious accessory to the mass slaughter of over 50 million helpless, innocent babies, you have lied countless precious gay souls into hell and then you dare sit to accuse others of your sins.

            When you became part of the Democrat Party, you sold your soul.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You are a liar by nature and never stop lying.  You do not have an excuse from God to lie.  You simply don’t understand what it means to be a good Christian.

            You can’t provide a link to what you claim I have done, because you are a liar.

          • Econwarrior

            And then, little hanni pontificates on his favorite subject:  himself.

          • Neiman

             “You are a liar by nature and never stop lying.”

            Everything I have said is the Truth, the absolute Truth and I have no need to link to anything, if you support the Democrat Party you are all those things and more. You murder babies, lie gays into hell, enslave people of color and have over and over denied Christ. These are facts, you are simply so sold to Satan you are blind to the Truth.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            “I have no need to link to anything, if you support the Democrat Party you are all those things and more.” – Nieman

            My Christian brother you are a lost sheep who not only has lost God, but you are on the brink of losing your sanity.

            Anyone who bothers to reads your ranting can see your unstable emotional state. 

            It’s sad.

          • Neiman

            Well, by refusing to confess Christ, you are no sheep of His penfold at all. We are not brothers in any sense of the word, as you are by choice outside of Christ.

            Act childish like all liberals and call me names, but at least, unlike you I will not have to answer to God for murdering over 50 million children, lying countless souls into hell and enslaving people of color as your own plantation coloreds.

            What is sad is that you would dare pretend to be okay, when you are facing hell for all the evil you have done and are doing without repentance.

          • donwalk

            Yet, you cannot explain or describe one single incident of bigotry or prejudice on my behalf. You know absolutely nothing about me, my past or my life experiences, yet you have the gall to call me bigoted and prejudiced. Devoid of common sense, facts and true knowledge one must always turn to yelling “racist”! Certainly the top level of ignorance in this world.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Since When Is It Ok For The Government To Force People Out Of Their Homes?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So you are saying you do mind that minorities and poor people are getting kicked out of their house for not keeping up with their mortgage?  Of course you don’t mind, but I bet you mind that these folks suffer the same fate, right?

          • Econwarrior

            Smart people take advantage of the increased success and prosperity, and the dumb ones like you just bitch and whine, little hanni.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            That’s an interesting admission considering Rob is the guy doing the complaining, along with the gaggleof Cons on this site.  You yourself are the number one whiner about Obama, always complaining about how others are responsible for others failure.

          • Econwarrior

            No, little hanni, you lie again.  You and all the other commies on this blog whine and complain about success, especially if it’s economic growth due to oil development on private land.

          • Guest

             What is it with you
            and the constant use of the word “we” when you are attempting to speak for
            yourself?  This is a clear window into your shallow mind and an obvious
            indication that you need SAB to satisfy your sense of belonging….to…..well,
            something, anything.  In this case you need to belong to a group who
            pretend they are somehow more normal than others because your particular brand
            of wackiness out numbers another group of members in your party. How desperate
            and pathetic.You bigoted racist  jerkoff.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Well put.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

             Your inability to properly use a comma doesn’t really generate the same level of distraction from the point that you guys don’t mind it when blacks and other minorities are kicked out of their homes.

            You guys like that just fine.

          • Gary

             Even you, semi white trash, would get kicked out of your home too if you weren’t paying the rent or mortgage.

          • opinionated

            Boobny… those working in the oil field can afford high rent.. grandparents who are retired and living in Williston cannot..

          • Econwarrior

            Those people moved to ND because it was low rent; now that it’s successful, they have to find another cheap place to live.  Life goes on.

          • borborygmi

            There you have it proof of the compassionate conservative.

          • Econwarrior

            So, in your Marxist “compassion”, we should forbid success(economic growth) because it might bother some people?  No wonder your Marxist in Chief can’t produce any economic growth.
            You want to sell everybody out for one group.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Why are there so many Democrap landlords in ND?

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            Probably as many people move to ND because they buggered a 14-year-old & got caught.

          • $8194357

            I semi agree with you.

            Its getting so out of wack alot of entry level oilfield folks can’t afford it either..

            The bigger companies buying bigger chunks for their employees have driven it up so high alot of folks can’t afford to play the hand they were delt to conclusion…

            Big companies have deep pockets and if they need a block of appartments costing $3000 a month or no place to live holding up multi million dollar projects?….

            Big companies are going to pay what an individual couldn’t or wouldn’t, IMO..

            Go big or stay home I guess…

          • borborygmi

            well thanks for stating the obvious.  Does it matter to you those elderly had to move.  Some Conservatives on this board went so far with their compassion that they stated the elderly should have planned better. Now they are being two faced because their cause (the passing of measure 2) needs a boost the elderly who had to leave in the oil patch mean something to them.  Rather pathetic.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      No, I’m using these comments correctly. A lot of people sell their homes to pay yhe taxes long before theyre foreclosed on. Is that really any better?

    • opinionated

      Hey we all get to vote and we all will vote and the majority will win…. And when Measure 2 passes the opponents will try to have our vote overruled they always do… They like votes only when they can win..

    • Drain52

      No, that is a lie. M2 spokespersons have never, never said that “elderly homeowners were being kicked out of their residences due to deliquent [sic] property taxes” What we have said is that the elderly and disabled are being forced from their homes by the ever increasing tax. That is a fact. The number of homes seized for failure to pay the tax is a tiny fraction of the impact of property taxes on home ownership. There are those who sell before their homes are seized, those who take second and third jobs to keep their home or those who (as mentioned in a previous post) sell their home to the bank in a “reverse mortgage.” The emotional, social and economic wake of property tax can hardly be overstated.

  • Guest

    You’re not showing any facts either.  Just because an elderly person chooses to downsize doesn’t mean it’s because they can’t afford their property taxes and that they’ll foreclose if they don’t downsize.

    • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

      There are no available official numbers, just 50 years of knowing what happens with a lot of old people.

      “Just because an elderly person chooses to downsize doesn’t mean it’s
      because they can’t afford their property taxes and that they’ll
      foreclose if they don’t downsize.”

      No kidding?  Really?  What an amazing insight!

      • Guest

        So I am supposed to believe your “statement”?  :P 

        I just laid everything out in terms you could best understand.

        Property taxes should be addressed, but not eliminated in my opinion.  Good day, Sir.

    • SusanBeehler

      The age of person being forced out of their home because they cannot afford to pay property tax should not matter.  What is wrong with you?NO one, NOT one person, should ever, ever have to leave there home before they make the choice to do because of property tax.  Shame on you to think it is ever okay for government to take a person’s home. We paid our state income tax today, it was $6; our property tax is almost $2500, there is a big imbalance in what we are paying for state income tax versus property tax.  We had to pull out of our retirement account to pay our property tax.  Do you want to support us with your tax dollars when we don’t have enough to live off our retirement?  There would be no need for any state to give a homestead credit if we were not using property tax as a method to determine how we pay for services. ARRP does studies and they know the number one concern for seniors is the ability to stay in their home, because there is no place like home.  It is our home, not theirs!!!! 
      Vote Yes2M.com

      • Robertfrost

         All theory, no substance from the Measure 2 crowd.  Theory on who benefits, theory on who loses their home, theory on who will find things and how, theory on what will be affected, and theory on the business that it will spawn.  No facts, just theory.  The state is seeing through it too.

        • $8194357

          Under Constitutional common law the property was the “individuals” once paid for…

          Under Federal incorperation law the “state” owns everything and everybody and we pay rent on property and “tribute” on income…

          Big big difference from our Founders Constitutional Rule of Common Law Republic compared to this “soviet incorperated legal structure” we find ourselves under these days…

          Do some non revisioniost history studies and then come lecture us about your “truth based on usurption and lies”..

          Big big lie sold to America from DC soviet central planning…..

        • $8194357

          How about an in depth study for your arrogant consideration?

          http://www.policynd.org/images

          • borborygmi

            some background  When the Revolutionary War began, the colonies had well-developed tax systems that made a war against the world’s leading military power thinkable. The tax structure varied from colony to colony, but five kinds of taxes were widely used. Capitation (poll) taxes were levied at a fixed rate on all adult males and sometimes on slaves. Property taxes were usually specific taxes levied at fixed rates on enumerated items, but sometimes items were taxed according to value. Faculty taxes were levied on the faculty or earning capacity of persons following certain trades or having certain skills. Tariffs (imposts) were levied on goods imported or exported and excises were levied on consumption goods, especially liquor.
            During the war colonial tax rates increased several fold and taxation became a matter of heated debate and some violence. Settlers far from markets complained that taxing land on a per-acre basis was unfair and demanded that property taxation be based on value. In the southern colonies light land taxes and heavy poll taxes favored wealthy landowners. In some cases, changes in the tax system caused the wealthy to complain. In New York wealthy leaders saw the excess profits tax, which had been levied on war profits, as a dangerous example of “leveling tendencies.”  Owners of intangible property in New Jersey saw the tax on intangible property in a similar light.
            By the end of the war, it was obvious that the concept of equality so eloquently stated in the Declaration of Independence had far-reaching implications. Wealthy leaders and ordinary men pondered the meaning of equality and asked its implications for taxation. The leaders often saw little connection among independence, political equality, and the tax system, but many ordinary men saw an opportunity to demand changes.

          • $8194357

            Impressive fart bubble…
            Now go “research” what the folks in charge said about the system they developed after the war was run..

            They taxed and used “fiat currency” to inflate and make wealth to win independance from the financial slave masters from across the pond is a well known fact of history..

            Their words of warning afterwards are a well kept crony capiralist marxist olagarchy secret..

            The fiat currency private banking and tax systems were warned about over and over..The first experiance with this “Central planning currency scam” called the first cental bank brought with it “corruption that overtook the soul of all who participated in it”.
            Greed, theft, and every form of corruption imaginable..

            Politicians sold their soul to bankers and scams of every sort were rampant..

            They told all who would listen..

            NEVER PUT OUR GOVERNEMENT IN THESE PEOPLES HANDS AGAIN, IT BREEDS “CORRUPTION”.

            The Constituion written up after the events you describe as well protected by limiting Federal central taxation and planning and left those to the independent colonies..19 enumerated powers given the Federal Government usurpted to the total central planning control ” they enjoy today..

            Limited power central governance has been left for soviet central planning and currency manipulation thru central banks and taxation is a very large part of that central planning control that they warned about “both times previously” in American history when Central Banks were used to fianace wars…

            FIRST THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR second
            THE CIVIAL WAR…

            Andrew Jackson and the greenback doller is all but forgotten as fiat federal currency was used a second time to corrupt both the banking and political process..Total “corruption” of the political process…

            Led to those asshole carpet baggers and corrupted once again and created the for highest bidder political process.

            International progressive crony capitalist fiat bankers with their “debt ponzi” came around the third time thanks to the Democratic party in

            1913…ALONG WITH THE IRS LAW ENFORCEMENT ARM TO “FORCE” THE PEOPLE TO PAY THEM THEIR TRIBUTE…

            Taxation without representation by steering commitee agendas has been the result all three times we went with this debt ponzi fiat currency system and the CORRUPTION everyone involved in the first two cental banks warned about have stayed up on the revionsit history shelve all dusty and old where the international progressive crony marxist capitalist globalist want it…Just like that old out dated Constituion…All negitive with the “government shall nots”..

            THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL

            as it breeds corruption and the “LUST FOR POWER” over others that our “Constituional Republic” gave to the states and individuals “COMMON LAW” and not the fascist tyrranical olagarchy of the rule of law above the rule of men olagarchy of eilites..”CORPERATE FEDERALISM”

            Go figure huh fart bubble..

            Constituional limited central federal power by rule of law …..usurpted by soviet style corperate steering commmitee….AND NOW?

            A GLOBAL MISSION STATEMENT

            just like the international progressives had back in 1913 when they gave us this

            “THIRD CENTRAL PLANNING CORRUPT FIAT CURRENCY WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION DEBT PONZI”…

            Death and taxes…Can’t ever escape those two, huh girgle?

            God Bless now, Hear?
            In Liberty and Faith,
            7point62

          • Econwarrior

            “When the Revolutionary War began, the colonies had well-developed tax
            systems that made a war against the world’s leading military power
            thinkable.”

            Yeah, it was our “tax system”, not our spirit or our weapons that enabled us to defeat the British dictator.  Right.

        • opinionated

          I will give you facts… when we vote ourselves a pay raise in June we are going to spend that money at local businesses and pay sales tax on it and companies with pay tax on it and people will move into more house which will free up housing for those trying to get into the market for the first time..Frosty.. if oyu want to give all your money to the state government .. be my guest.. but I prefer to keep what my sweat equity produced… i prefer to stimulate the economy of those I choose to stimulate

        • Drain52

          Not theory. Your local government has already said that eliminating property tax for businesses actually improves the tax base, bringing additional sales and income tax revenues and increasing wages and that all that more than offsets the cost of the PT exemption. Your state and local governments have already implemented tax policy based on this. That’s not theory, that’s policy. 

      • borborygmi

        What is wrong with you?NO one, NOT one person, should ever, ever have to leave there home before they make the choice to do because of property tax.
             Thats right they should be tossed out because the beggers are behind their mortgage, sometimes for the same reason they are behind their  property taxes but they should still be evicted………Pay the rent, I can’t pay the rent, pay the rent, can’t pay the rent…..Dudley Do Right

        • Drain52

          The difference being mortgages do not go up year after year. Property taxes do. And they go up faster than your incomes does. 1/3 faster. Our house payment was 25% of our income when we bought it 15 yrs ago. It’s now near 35%, and that’s after we refinanced for a lower mortgage payment.

  • Guest

    How entertaining it was to read this thread.  Everyone makes their point based on their own versions of the “facts” they bring up in the comments.  Most (not all) sound pretty compelling, but the bottom line is that while almost every post contains theories, hypotheses, and opinion, I would like to see the data presented for all to see.  That’s why I haven’t made up my mind yet on Measure 2- I’m not done with my homework.

    I won’t say who I agree or disagree with in this thread; most (not all) of you have points that sound compelling.  But they don’t compel me to vote one way or the other- they only compel me to find the cold hard truth myself.  I would hope more informed voters also take the time to vote based on truth and common sense, rather than third-person resources.  Even Glenn Beck asked his viewers not to believe him- he steered them in the direction of the facts themselves. 

    • $8194357

      http://www.policynd.org/images/uploads/BHI.pdf

      Ask and Ye shall recieve..Scriptural ya know…

      When ya get done do some research on Constituional common law versus Federal Corperate Law.
       When ya say we don’t base anything on nothin but opinion it is insulting an ya might be in for a shock…
      God Bless now, Hear?
      7point62

      • Guest

        Nope, you misunderstood.  I didn’t say anyone’s posts aren’t based on facts; I’m merely saying that a third-person (or fourth-person, if there is such a thing) account of the facts is never the same as the facts themselves.  You posted the link to the ND Policy council, and that’s great- just a reminder to the casual reader to go get the facts themselves rather than decide based on a blog.  So for that I thank you Sir.

        And God bless you fella.

        • $8194357

          You betcha guest…you betcha…

        • Drain52

          http://www.YesM2.com will link you to the facts–the studies, the government documents, etc.

    • opinionated

      When i see this state government giving tax breaks to everyone who starts a business, to people who live in the right neighborhoods (renaissance zones), to economic development that never pans out. To Museums we don’t need or want, to move kids out of schools that have low enrollment only to now ask the voters to approve three in Bismarck…. I know it is time for me to keep my own property tax monies… Those are my facts

      • $8194357

        Yup

      • borborygmi

        You might not want the museum but others do. Since you aren’t the boss and it is a representative gov’t . . . . Tough shitsky

  • borborygmi

    This is one of the most crassly insensitive things I’ve ever read.      Kind of like the people who had to move because the rent doubled in the oil patch…….What was the consensus among
    Conservatives.. They should have planned better, not that big a deal, they can move somewhere else…  It is only capitalism..free enterprise..   Probably the most crassly insensitive thing I have ever read.  Imagine that two different scenarios with the same out come.  People still having to move out of their homes or apts.  

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      I’m against people being forced out of homes they own, amd somehow Borby makes me out to be the crass one.

      Sigh….

      • borborygmi

        I saw no sympathy coming from the Conservatives on this board for the people having to move because of capitalism.  Yes Crass. 

        • Guest

          I think the line between “sympathy” and unsustainable safety nets has become blurred.

          • borborygmi

            Thats the problem isn’t it one mans sympathy might or might not be the other mans safety net. 

          • Econwarrior

            Not really; sympathy costs nothing, and is an admirable human behavior.  The so-called “safety net” requires the confiscation of the earnings of others, most of which goes to the middleman(big govt).  Not the same at all.

          • $8194357

            Not the same at all..
            Thru punitive force of leftist governance un-Constitutional theft of labor, money and property..
            We fought a dang war over that..

          • $8194357

            God has “Compassion”

            Social justice fascism hides behind human “sympathy”.

            The devils false morality or
            God’s actual “Rightousness”.

            The “trinity of “state”
            OR
            The Father Son and Holy Spirit…

            Can salt and fresh water flow from the same spring without the salty corrpting the fresh?

            Does not the yeast in the dough work its way through out the whole loaf?
            (The parable of the un-leven bread)

            Its called “deception” gurgle…Lies and deception..

            A false given for the actual…The devils structures..

            A way that “seems right” unto a man but in the end leads to death and that death, death “eternal”..

            God Bless now, Hear?

        • Econwarrior

          No one has to move because of capitalism; it’s about their choices.  Take responsibility, instead of playing the victim card.

        • $8194357

          Oh those evil capitalists…
          Commie leftist lemming useful Leninist apoligist.
          Move to Russia…
          Or wait and see if Barry gets 4 more to complete your dream world here, huh?

          • borborygmi

            Sweet ,  and I will have the top bed by the door in the gulag saved for you.     It strikes me that you have no faith in our  form of gov’t.  You truly believe the checks and balances provided by the Constitution have failed thus the Constitution and the Representative form of gov’t is a failure. Please take a deep breath.
                 Anything that has happened today happened before.The rich have more power then the poor. The powerful will most likely use that power to grab more power.   There always has and always will have nepotism, cronyism, power grabbing and behind the scenes maneuvering and self serving manipulation.    But in the end the country keeps going, makes a correction from left to right and back again. The Constitution holds true. The Founders were pretty smart ( but divided) men.  Deep Breaths now.  

          • $8194357

            Told ya before fartbubble and non revisionist  history proves me correct…

            When the 100’s of millions who went to the camps before me…..
            They took the older non re-educatable folks straight to the death camps…

            I prefer to go with a hot empty lead delivery system in hand and my boots on…

            Ideolgies that come from the left lead to human suffering misery and death…Wether at the hands of tyranical communists or fascist jihadists…100’s of million “served” over recorded history….

            You apoligise for those same ideogical systems and points of veiw…

            You “OWN EM”..

            I am done with you.

          • borborygmi

            I am done with you.  I doubt that. 

      • $8194357

        You conservitive meany you..
        Meanwhile the social justice fascists they are “blind to”.
        They need to turn around and look where their leftist root systems come from and lead too, huh?

    • Econwarrior

      Before you get on your antiAmerican high horse, remember the KELO decision, which enabled big govt to confiscate homes.

      • $8194357

        Constitutional Common Law or Corperate soviet Federalism..

        Thats the two choices Americans have had for the last 100 plus years and folks need to wake up and put the Feds back under the chains and fetters of the Limited Governance rule of Law repeublic our Founders gave us..

        • borborygmi

          It is interesting that just like today as is written in the Federalist Papers the’ Founders’ had different notions on extent and scope of power the Federal Gov’t should have. The fact that the first Confederation was unworkable , States having provincial prejudices, goals,crippled the Federal Gov’t so it was moribund.
               It plays itself out again with the National Health Act.  After the Act is found unconstitutional the pendulum starts swinging back to the right. “it was obvious that the concept of equality so eloquently stated in the Declaration of Independence had far-reaching implications. ”    As shown in your video, one mans freedom can be another mans encroachment.

          • $8194357

            19 enumerated powers…for the Fed

            Article 28…

            How did the left get around them for soviet olagarchy elietist tyrrany?

            do the math…

      • borborygmi

        never heard of it.  
        7.62 please do some research for me.     Oh I did watch the video on pc proving that might makes right. 

        • $8194357

          Left brain right brain fartbubble?
          Do your own research…

          Tired of wasting my time educateing you only to have ya do the 180 spin and lose all the info…

          Apple and mac
          Can’t even read the program with out converting the info
          to the leftist “predetermined outcome”..

  • Robertfrost

    The simple fact is that property taxes are taxes of choice.  You don’t have to pay them.  You choose to pay them when you buy property.  Every homeowner knows that property taxes are involved in their home’s ownership when they buy a home, and every property owner knows they can go up.  Measure 2 supporters want a do-over.  It’s that simple.  They have no intention for the good of the state.  They just don’t want to pay a bill they agreed to pay when they made the choice to buy a home.  I guess they figure they can choose to pump gas into their car, but choose not to pay that bill either. 

    • Guest

      Not sure I’m on board with your gasoline analogy… sounds like false logic to me.  A car requires fuel to run.  A home doesn’t need to be taxed in order to remain intact.  Besides, this isn’t a “good of the state” issue to me; it’s about the freedom of the property owner.  Is wanting a do-over such a bad thing?  Isn’t that why we have legislators in the first place?

      • borborygmi

        A home doesn’t need to be taxed in order to remain intact but if you live in a city services need to be provided for the safety and health of the community. If you live in the country no big deal you threaten no one. 

    • Guest

      By your reasoning, we shouldn’t do mortgage refinances either.  I mean, after all, that’s a do-over, isn’t it?

      • Robertfrost

         More smokescreen from the Measure 2 crowd.  If you agree to buy a house with a mortgage, you are agreeing to all methods of finance, including the opportunity to re-finance and also your agreement to be taxed.  Simple concept.  A mortgage is an agreement that you agree to enter into with a bank.  Buying property, or assuming ownership of property, has always been an agreement between you and the government.  You are taxed for your ownership.

        The Measure 2 crowd conveniently fails to mention that all property was originally the governments, including North Dakota.  The homesteaders agreed to be taxed for free land.  We’ve known about property taxes for almost 200 years here.  Tried and true, and now under attack by those who want the ultimate “do over”.

        Bottom line:  Property ownership includes taxes.  Mortgages include terms you agree to.  Honor your agreements.

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