Say Anything Blog

This certainly doesn’t reflect well on the Palins as parents.

What I think it reflects more on is her support of abstinence only education, which studies show does nothing to prevent teenage pregnancy.

If Bristol Palin had gotten more abstinence-only education she probably wouldn’t be in this predicament.

Listen: Teenagers have sex.  There’s not a lot we can do to stop them.  But that doesn’t mean we should condone the sex and start giving the condoms.

The best way to avoid pregnancy, and STD’s, is abstinence.  Period.  And no amount of contorted liberal logic is going to change that.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

We know what causes that now. 

Hawkeye Pierce.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Before you extol “family values” to others, find the time to raise your own, because while many teens will have sex, I know mine have been taught to protect themselves.

Listen: Teenagers have sex.  There’s not a lot we can do to stop them.  But that doesn’t mean we should condone the sex and start giving the condoms.

I would rather have a policy that works than one that doesn’t.  I agree that teenagers have sex (somehow it never seemed to be this way when I was a teenager ) and abstinence only education does little to prevent this.

Premise: Teenagers have sex.  Assumption: There’s not a lot we can do to stop them.

...

Conclusion: The best way [for teenagers] to avoid pregnancy, and STD’s, is abstinence.

Speaking of “contorted logic,” wouldn’t your assumption have to be “there is something we can do to stop them” in order for your conclusion to flow? Just saying…

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

why is it when dems want to talk about true issues involving a candidate’s family, they are scandal hungry and partisan, but when republican’s spread rumors about McCain’s adopted daughter they are good Americans?

If Bristol Palin had gotten more abstinence-only education she probably wouldn’t be in this predicament.

LOL!!!  Good one.

Liberals will have a field day with this news and I can see the headlines now.

Republicans not conservative enough

Message to Rob: Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder (for teens).

As a parent who has faced the delima twice, I am not condeming Ms. Palin, as a parent.  But, as a political candidate, here vivals may be asking, “what else is she going to “cover up”?

This certainly doesn’t reflect well on the Palins as parents.

Please explain to me what this means.  It may well be the most absurd thing I’ve ever read—unless, of course, there’s something hidden in it that I just don’t understand.  I’m always willing to learn, y’know?

If you had all 535 members of Congress form a line with their backs to you, drop their pants or lift their skirts, then bend over and spread their cheeks—you couldn’t tell one asshole from another.

Regards…

William,

What, if anything, has Ms. Palin covered up?

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

Before you extol “family values” to others, find the time to raise your own, because while many teens will have sex, I know mine have been taught to protect themselves.

How?  And from what?  I’d really like to know.

If you had all 535 members of Congress form a line with their backs to you, drop their pants or lift their skirts, then bend over and spread their cheeks—you couldn’t tell one asshole from another.

Regards…

My fiance and I got busy one 4th of July, she was 3 mo. pregnant on our wedding day.  We were married 3 days after her 18th birthday.  That was 18 years ago.

I wish these two all the best.

HG
Was her dad holding an over-under or a pump action?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie
No shotgun wedding needed in my case, we were engaged 6 mo. before.

HG
Congrats. You know, however, that God doesn’t approve of it unless you’re married. At least he’s forgiving.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Speaking of “contorted logic,” wouldn’t your assumption have to be “there is something we can do to stop them” in order for your conclusion to flow?

Not really.  Abstinence is the best preventative for pregnancy and STD’s, but that doesn’t mean hormone-driven teenagers will adhere to abstinence.

But that, in turn, doesn’t mean we should start tacitly condoning teenage sex by handing out condoms, etc

Please explain to me what this means.  It may well be the most absurd thing I’ve ever read—unless, of course, there’s something hidden in it that I just don’t understand.

Absurdity must be in the eye of the beholder, or else you just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

No teenage pregnancy ever reflects well on the parents.  There’s always more that could have been done.  But then, it does happen to a lot of people - even the best of parents - so it’s not like I’m calling the Palins bad people.

It’s a crazy, mixed-up, imperfect world.  What are you going to do?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Was her dad holding an over-under or a pump action?

The hardest thing I ever did was confronting him with the news in person.  It helped that our wedding date was set.

My fiance and I got busy one 4th of July, she was 3 mo. pregnant on our wedding day.  We were married 3 days after her 18th birthday.  That was 18 years ago.

I wish these two all the best.

Nobody saying that these two can’t have a happy marriage.  But the statistics tell that it is far less likely to work out.

For the Democrats to pick on this is about as stupid as when they go after her “lack of experience.”  It’s a lot easier to troll through 143 days as a Senator, for instance, than it would be for two years as a Governor (where the buck stops).

So the Democrats want to come out as attacking pregnant teens?  Let ‘em.

Cf

Abstinence only?!?! You have GOT to be joking!?!?  It’s likely that abstinence only got the poor girl where she is.  As you say -teenagers have sex.  That doesn’t mean that they need to become parents before they are ready - - strike that - - elated to welcome a child into the world.  Access to birth control prevents unwanted pregnancies and all of the moral dilemmas that a pregnant teenager can face.  Is it 100% effective? No, but I bet the failure rate of abstinence only education is a hell of lot higher than 5%-10% (and those of us who actually had SexEd class can tell you that condoms used properly - - maybe something SexEd help with? - - are 98% effective and condoms + birth control pills puts the rate even higher).

No teenage pregnancy ever reflects well on the parents.  There’s always more that could have been done.  But then, it does happen to a lot of people - even the best of parents - so it’s not like I’m calling the Palins bad people.

There would be more they could have done if she didn’t get pregmant, Rob.  As a parent the is always more you could/should/would have done better or differently.

You say you’re not calling then bad people, but you say this doesn’t reflect well on them.  What’s the difference and what do you mean?

If you had all 535 members of Congress form a line with their backs to you, drop their pants or lift their skirts, then bend over and spread their cheeks—you couldn’t tell one asshole from another.

Regards…

Marriage failures are high even without the present circumstances.  These two have all my best and my prayers.

The fact that these situations are so wrought with failure is one very good reason not to politicize it and make it any harder on these two kids than it already is.  A family’s future is at stake here.

If Bristol Palin had gotten more abstinence-only education she probably wouldn’t be in this predicament.

Abstinence-only education doesn’t work. How many of you are virgins?

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” ~Theodore Roosevelt

It’s likely that abstinence only got the poor girl where she is.

Unless basic biology has changed since I went to school, abstinence is the one thing that did not get the poor girl where she is.

If you had all 535 members of Congress form a line with their backs to you, drop their pants or lift their skirts, then bend over and spread their cheeks—you couldn’t tell one asshole from another.

Regards…

The problem with abstinence only education is it is not taught correctly.  The cumbaya way of teaching it is the problem.  If they would be honest with these kids and tell them that the only way to 100% prevent any disease and pregnancy is abstinence, I think it would work a whole lot better.  Especially if they did it the way some countries do it by showing them actual pictures these diseases actually do to the body!

I also think it is funny that a teenage daughter who is pregnant and the parents are staying engaged with is bad family values.  I would much rather have her engaged and still supporting her daughter than having this kid alone and a burden to the system. 

I think this is what is rubbing the Dems the wrong way!  To be truly acceptable this kid should be on her own living on welfare.

Abstinence-only education doesn’t work. How many of you are virgins?

I’m a married father of two.  What’s your point?

And by the way, putting murders in jail hasn’t stopped murder in America.  But I don’t think we should stop putting them in jail.

There would be more they could have done if she didn’t get pregmant, Rob.  As a parent the is always more you could/should/would have done better or differently.

You say you’re not calling then bad people, but you say this doesn’t reflect well on them.  What’s the difference and what do you mean?

It doesn’t reflect well on them because their underaged daughter got pregnant.

It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bad people because we’re all imperfect people and parents.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

She’s 17 and pregnant and the libtards are shocked?  It’s liberals who have put day care centers in high schools.  I understand the importance of a teenage mom continuing her education but schools clebrate these teenage pregnancies and raise it to the level of a great accomplishment instead of understanding that more often than not it is a life limiting experience.  When my daughter was a high school cheerleader we would go to the games and teenage moms would come into the gym and every body in the stands would heap praise upon these teenage moms like she was the first one to ever have a baby.

Rob,

My older sister got knocked up.  It wasn’t the fault of my parents it was hers.  She started dating a real jerk her senior year.  They grounded her, took away her car and did not let her go out.  Well, she slip out one night after everyone was asleep and well you know what happened.  What could my parents have done different?  Short of locking her in ger room and having an armed guard follow her around.  Bottom line, you can be a great parent and it still will not help. 

To everyone else, sex ed is not the answer either.

What part of the “new curriculum” on sex education has cut teenage pregnancy rates.

At least these kids are going to do their best to do the right thing now that it’s happened.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

To everyone else, sex ed is not the answer either.

If education is not the answer, if locking her up isn’t the answer, what is?

The fact that these situations are so wrought with failure is one very good reason not to politicize it and make it any harder on these two kids than it already is.

I agree that this will be hard enough already, but if you don’t want this in the news don’t run for vice-president. This is the Palin family’s decision.

Lestat, glad you agree.  There is however a great distance between this story in the news, and opponents exploiting these kids for political gain.  The first is the Palin’s decision, the latter will depend upon the character of liberals.

My older sister got knocked up.  It wasn’t the fault of my parents it was hers.  She started dating a real jerk her senior year.  They grounded her, took away her car and did not let her go out.  Well, she slip out one night after everyone was asleep and well you know what happened.  What could my parents have done different?  Short of locking her in ger room and having an armed guard follow her around.  Bottom line, you can be a great parent and it still will not help.

I don’t disagree.  And I don’t think it’s Todd and Sarah’s fault specifically, but like it or not we’re all responsible for our children.  And when one of our daughters gets pregnant underage, it doesn’t reflect well on us.

That’s just the way it is.

I agree that this will be hard enough already, but if you don’t want this in the news don’t run for vice-president. This is the Palin family’s decision.

I agree with that, sort of.

The Palins may not have known about the pregnancy.  The McCain campaign is saying they knew about it, but who knows for sure?  Maybe Bristol just sprang this on them?

As far as politics go, I don’t think it’s off-limits to talk about.  But how much of a political issue is this, really?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob,

But that, in turn, doesn’t mean we should start tacitly condoning teenage sex by handing out condoms, etc

Perhaps Bristol Palin would have had a different result if she was encouraged to seek out birth control. Maybe she and her partner would have had a condom on hand if they weren’t shamed, by the abstinance advocates in their lives, into avoiding those small-town Alaskan pharmacies. Of course I’m only guessing about the situation, but having grown up in a small town, that was the prevailing reason our teens didn’t have protection.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

But how much of a political issue is this, really?

I think it is only relevant to her position on abstinence only education and on her determination to run for office.  I will not make any attack on her daughter’s character, bur the reality is that those attacks will be made and it will be tough on her.

Face it.  Society not only condones but promotes not only pre-marital sex but teen sex.  Raging teenage hormones are difficult enough to overcome, but add in pop culture and peer pressure, and abstinence almost becomes impossible.  When you have what should be respectable members of our society (teachers, nurses, etc.) giving kids condoms, how the hell can the virtue, responsibility, and respectability of abstinence ever get through? If abstinence education is ever to be sufficient, our culture is going to have to change… a lot!

Perhaps Bristol Palin would have had a different result if she was encouraged to seek out birth control.

How do you know she didn’t?  You don’t.  You’re just running on emotion and assumptions like most opponents of abstinence education do.  For all we know Bristol and her boyfriend used a condom and it didn’t work.  Or they used the pill and it didn’t work.

I’m more than a little tired of people going around pretending like condoms are a sure-fire preventative for disease and pregnancy.  We can never know for sure, but I’d be willing to bet that more pregnancies are caused by kids duped into thinking their condoms are (ahem) bullet-proof than kids who forgo contraception because they’re embarrassed.

And if you think Bristol Palin didn’t know anything about condoms or the pill you’re kidding yourself.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

The fact that the Palin’s are pro-life and that this could have been avoided with an abortion speaks well of the Palin’s convictions and where there priorities lie.

So Rob, you might be saying that the McCain is lying?

Could be, Puzzled, but I don’t know.

Here’s a newflash: Politicians lie.  And as a conservative, I’m willing to speculate about my side maybe being less than honest.

It’s called integrity.  You should look it up in a dictionary or something.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Sounds like Bristol had a CHOICE.

“We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby,”

Palin wouldn’t allow that to others.

GIVING CHOICE TO A 17 YO? Sounds like a ‘marxist’ ‘hippy’ to me.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

HG

Face it.  Society not only condones but promotes not only pre-marital sex but teen sex.  Raging teenage hormones are difficult enough to overcome, but add in pop culture and peer pressure, and abstinence almost becomes impossible.

HG with the Wahhabist line! Let’s just ban tapedecks too while we’re at it.

So, HG… you are outraged at the social injustice? Our kids are the powerless victims? What was that you were saying about your own forays into pre-marital sex? Are you a poor victim too HG?

What we need is an Iron Christian Fist in Washington to really lay down the law. These states with their varied and deviant policies! The moral injustice! We need someone to take charge of the locality’s moralities!

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Just like the Dimocrats don’t want you to have a choice where your kids go to school, or how to defend your home, or how to insure your health, or how to save for retirement, or whether or not you wish to unionize your place of work, or what car you can drive, or what kind of food you can eat?

Huh woof?

Lestat,

You keep carping on Sarah Palin’s support for abstinence only sex education.  What I don’t see, anywhere on this thread, is some sort of proof that any other public school sex education curricula would have prevented the Ms. Palin from getting pregnant.  For all your caterwauling, you have yet to demonstrate convincingly that you have anything to offer that is any better.

On the other hand, it seems to me that this entire incident certainly points up that Sarah Palin is anything but hypocritical in how she applies her personal beliefs to her day-to-day life.

I for one find Sarah Palin’s integrity and candor in all this very refreshing, and I suspect that the more harpies on the Left attack her over this, the more public sympathy for her they’ll generate.  Attacking Palin over this strikes me as an extremely stupid thing to do from a purely tactical perspective… especially for those who like to trumpet their understanding and empathy for those in need.  Of course, no one has accused “progressive” Democrats of an inordinate level of intelligence in the first place.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Palin wouldn’t allow that to others.

She could have aborted it or put it up for adoption.

The law allows for this choice regardless of what Sarah ‘would’ do. 

I wouldn’t support my daughter’s decision to have an abortion, and if I could legally prevent it, I would.

Moron: To you lying lefties, “choice” has been redefined to mean “baby killing for birth control purposes”.  This is a real choice; the choice to take responsibility for one’s actions.  That’s something you lefties just can’t abide.
You want all choice to reside with govt.  Shame on you!

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Sparkie,

I never suggested any of the nonsense you posted.  No I’m no victim, nor is any teen.  The reality is given the current cultural and political situation, absitinence is a tough sell, especially to teens.  Cultural change is not to be made in Washington.  The change I speak of would be voluntary and made in light of the socially destructive nature of some of our current cultural norms.

Rob,

How do you know she didn’t?  You don’t.  You’re just running on emotion and assumptions like most opponents of abstinence education do.  For all we know Bristol and her boyfriend used a condom and it didn’t work.  Or they used the pill and it didn’t work.

Like I said, I’m only guessing about Bristol’s situation. But my guess does come from experience growing up an in abstinence education environment. So I could be wrong as to Bristol, but I am certainly speaking from a place of knowledge in regards to our general abstinence v. condoms debate. In other words, that’s how I’ve seen most teen pregnancies come about in my high school.

And if you think Bristol Palin didn’t know anything about condoms or the pill you’re kidding yourself.

Assuming, again, that my guess was correct, I never argued that she didn’t know anything about condoms or the pill. I believe the crux of our argument revolves around whether the kid is encouraged to seek out birth control, not if he’s ever heard of it. Way fog up the argument.

BTW. It sounds kind of funny to say “abstinence education.” Which part is educational as opposed to prescriptive?

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

HG
So you feel others shouldn’t engage in premarital sex even though you did?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

yea, you nailed me. i’m pro-choice. like you didn’t know that.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

You keep carping on Sarah Palin’s support for abstinence only sex education.  What I don’t see, anywhere on this thread, is some sort of proof that any other public school sex education curricula would have prevented the Ms. Palin from getting pregnant.

Nobody knows if it would have prevented this specific incident.  But the most comprehensive study to date shows that abstinence only education does nothing to prevent unwanted pregnancies or teen sex.  So by all means, let’s keep this unproductive policy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/13/AR2007041301003.html

Like I said, I’m only guessing about Bristol’s situation. But my guess does come from experience growing up an in abstinence education environment. So I could be wrong as to Bristol, but I am certainly speaking from a place of knowledge in regards to our general abstinence v. condoms debate. In other words, that’s how I’ve seen most teen pregnancies come about in my high school.

So you’re telling me that your evidence is anecdotal, and then you make an absurd claim about knowing the dirty details of most of the teen pregnancies in your high school.

Presuming, of course, that you weren’t lied to.  Or that rumors turned out to be wrong.

You’re not exactly making a convincing case here.

I believe the crux of our argument revolves around whether the kid is encouraged to seek out birth control, not if he’s ever heard of it. Way fog up the argument.

I’m not fogging up the argument at all.  I’m scratching my head wondering how watching some teacher put a condom on a banana was going to help Bristol out.  If she knew about condoms (which you admit) and chose not to use one anyway do you really think a semester-long class about condoms and birth control would help?

You’re really stretching here.

I know, given your stance on abortion, that you apparently think we should all just have loads of sex and then kill off any kids that come out of it but most of us would like to promote a bit more personal responsibility.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Abstinence is 100% effective.  Trying to teach abstinence in a school system with massive sex training programs isn’t so effective, because the kids are constantly programmed to be sexual.  Duh.  Had those kids been abstinent, she wouldn’t be pregnant.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

So you feel others shouldn’t engage in premarital sex even though you did?

The consequences of doing so can make for unecessary challenges and remove some good opportunities. 

Practically speaking, it is the choice of every individual.  Without the cultural and social pressures, and with the support of society and peers, that choice would be more often the right choice for the individual.

Practically speaking, it is the choice of every individual.

Damn practicality. At least you know the right choice everyone should make, individually. You evidence that well here

Without the cultural and social pressures, and with the support of society and peers, that choice would be more often the right choice for the individual.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Rob, busy lying

I know, given your stance on abortion, that you apparently think we should all just have loads of sex and then kill off any kids that come out of it but most of us would like to promote a bit more personal responsibility.

That is a non-sequitor if ive seen one. Can you break it down more. If someone is pro-abortion, that does not mean they do not advocate contraceptives.

Personal responsibility on Rob’s view: having 10 kids, then having the gov’t help you pay for them.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

“So you feel others shouldn’t engage in premarital sex even though you did?”

It’s called “learning from experience”, moron. When you do something, and it turns out to be wrong, it’s the duty of an honest person to share what you learned with others who might benefit from it.  It’s called “being responsible”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

But the most comprehensive study to date shows that abstinence only education does nothing to prevent unwanted pregnancies or teen sex. So by all means, let’s keep this
unproductive policy.

Pure bullshit!  Abstinence works every time, but trying to teach it to kids who have aready been sexualized by the sex instruction classes in the govt schools is difficult.  Why not go for the thing that works, rather than the one that guarantees pregnancies and STDs?  Why do you hate kids?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Sparkie,

You’re dying for me to tell you my belief about sex, but my belief isn’t anothers conviction and therefore irrelevent.  However, there is wisdom in avoiding sex.  The consequences to one’s own life and the subsequent relaxed social norms which contributes to an increase in sexual behavior (and subsequently the situation we’re discussing) are sufficient deterents.  If society and pop culture would simply come to respect such a decision instead of mocking and deriding abstinence and promoting and glorifying teen sex, our kids would at least have a better chance. 

Funny how you libs like to condemn those who would like abstinence education influence teens, but have no problem with the social and cultural norms which pressure and influence teens to engage in sex.

but have no problem with the social and cultural norms which pressure and influence teens to engage in sex.

its called marketing. blame the GAP, abercrombie and fitch, and all the other venues that sell junk with sex. are you trying to call for some serious regulation here or what? a little pissed about free market econ?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

I’m saddened. If McCain knew (and I wonder if he did), I’m surprised that the pregancy was not announced, up front.

I don’t think it reflects bad upon the Palin’s parenting.  If anything it reflects well on the Palin’s parenting. As far as the mud slinging goes, people are going to do what they do.

Rob,

I’m not fogging up the argument at all.  I’m scratching my head wondering how watching some teacher put a condom on a banana was going to help Bristol out.  If she knew about condoms (which you admit) and chose not to use one anyway do you really think a semester-long class about condoms and birth control would help?

I think we already established the argument is not whether the kid knows how to use a condom, but whether he should be encouraged to do so. You’re a smart guy, so I’ll conclude that the disingenous attempt to argue a point that I never made is because you can’t think of a better response.

I know, given your stance on abortion, that you apparently think we should all just have loads of sex and then kill off any kids that come out of it but most of us would like to promote a bit more personal responsibility.

Can I assume that this irrelevant tidbit backs up the above? Also, why can’t I take personal responsibility for killing my unborn kid? I promise to feel very guilty about it for a little bit.

Sorry, throwing conservative bromides like “personal responsibility” around does not a logical argument make. Though you’re probably succeeding in convincing the other tea kettles around here.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

Sparkie,

You are one convoluted mind.

No I’m not advocating any regulation.  I’m advocating wisdom.  Through education and mutual respect, society could come to accept abstinence as a good choice instead of mocking and deriding it. 

Look, if you would stop with the antoginism long enough to listen, you’d know exactly what I’m saying.

HG
I have no sympathies for social conservatives.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

So you feel others shouldn’t engage in premarital sex even though you did?

This argument, the hypocrisy accusation writ large, betrays a willful, adolescent stupidity almost beyond endurance.  Any adult with a modicum of honesty will admit there are things in his/her past that ought not to have been done, or the consequences of which one would not wish on any other, much less a child or someone else near and dear.  Illness, both physical and mental, severe pain, terror, the premature loss of a loved one, the haunting spectre of having taken another human life, these are all things we would not wish on those we care for.

To disparage a parent for hoping that their children do not make the same mistakes, and suffer the same consequences as they did, for hoping for their children enjoy a better, safer, less painful life, is simply idiotic.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I have no sympathies for social conservatives.

I didn’t realize I was appealing to your sympathies. It wasn’t intended I assure you.

I was appealling to reason.  I can see how an emotionally afflicted liberal mind would confuse the two.

I have no sympathies for social conservatives.

————————————————————————————————————————
Too bad HG.

And Rob,

Let’s simplify this (as well as bring it back to the topic of your post):

Either…

1) You admit that “abstinence education” is an abject failure as a policy, or

2) We conclude that Ms. Palin is an abject failure as a mother for failing to “teach” her kid abstinence.

Of course the latter would go against Ms. Palin’s character. We don’t want failures running our country.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

What are you guys going to say to the Christian kooks out in Utah (that you back) who wish to marry and rape 13 to 16 yr old females? When should the abstinence education stop? 12?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Interesting observation:  Conservatives generally want abstinence education taught along with other ‘safe sex’ methods.

But liberals do not want abstinence education taught at all.

Why?  What are they afraid of?

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

You’re going to infringe on the Christian kooks ability to rape and marry off underage women if you teach abstinence past the age of twelve… maybe we could give Burkas a try. whaddya think HG?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

...but like it or not we’re all responsible for our children.  And when one of our daughters gets pregnant underage, it doesn’t reflect well on us.

I would disagree with you there.  I believe it is how you react that is the true reflection of the family.  The Palin’s are doing the best they can in a bad situation.  They are not killing the kid, giving him or her a good home and standing with the daughter when it would be easy to do something different.

Interesting observation:  Conservatives generally want abstinence education taught along with other ‘safe sex’ methods.

Interesting, but false.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

But liberals do not want abstinance education taught at all.

Interesting, and true.

[How about one of your famous links, Arbuckle, proving  that my earlier statement is false.]

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

1) You admit that “abstinence education” is an abject failure as a policy, or

2) We conclude that Ms. Palin is an abject failure as a mother for failing to “teach” her kid abstinence.

Both are false, but your partisan fear and hatred are obvious.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

whaddya think HG?

All those posts and Sparkie still doesn’t know what I think.

What a waste.

Look, if you would stop with the antoginism long enough to listen, you’d know exactly what I’m saying.

That has always been Sparkie’s problem, although he does seem crazier than usual lately.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

HG
You think abstinence is ‘the bomb’. Duh. You are against extra-marital sex. You are against pop culture. You think advertising and MTV are depraved outlets of Western sluttyness. You have made your position clear. I was just wondering about Burkas? What’s your position on those? Hajibs?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Conservatives generally want abstinence education taught along with other ‘safe sex’ methods.

No they don’t.  They want abstinence only.  It’s liberals who want a comprehensive program.  Nobody wants to encourage teenage sex.  But the goal should be to prevent teenage pregnancy and abstinence only doesn’t. 

What we should be doing is focusing on helping young woman’s self esteem where they don’t feel they have to have sex to be loved.  We need to focus on the consequences of unwanted pregnancies and how it effects their future.  That is the main cause of teenage sex.

HG
You think abstinence is ‘the bomb’. Duh. You are against extra-marital sex. You are against pop culture. You think advertising and MTV are depraved outlets of Western sluttyness. You have made your position clear. I was just wondering about Burkas? What’s your position on those? Hajibs?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sorry, throwing conservative bromides like “personal responsibility” around does not a logical argument make.

To the contrary; sound principles are always best, even if you lying lefties don’t like it.  Personal responsibility is not a “bromide”, although it’s revealing that you think that way.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I’m saddened. If McCain knew (and I wonder if he did), I’m surprised that the pregancy was not announced, up front.

No reason to; the daughter’s not running for office, is she?
Chelsea Clinton was “out of bounds”, so why the double standard?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

a little pissed about free market econ?

Sexualizing vulnerable children with sex instruction forced on them in govt schools is hardly “free market econ”, moron.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Both are false, but your partisan fear and hatred are obvious.

As opposed to your objective analysis of Democrats.Ha!!!!

You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

                                Bob Dylan

Sexualizing vulnerable children with sex instruction forced on them in govt schools is hardly “free market econ”, moron.

I was referring to HG’s aversion to social sexual pressures. Hence the reference I made to MTV, ass. The real root of the problem is conservatives who treat women as objects, ‘chicks’, who are only supposed to show some ass and STFU. Take it up with Rush Limbaugh.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

HG’s testimony is mine.

It’s been 42 for us.

So, all the best Bristol, these things work out.

Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this is their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce.       
And they go down fighting.

Sexualizing vulnerable children with sex instruction forced on them in govt schools is hardly “free market econ”, moron.

Exactly.  We all admit the sexual vulnerabililty of teens and have laws against statuatory rape for that very reason.  However,  we allow pop-culture to introduce even pre-teens to sexuality and sexual behavior in a manner which is in some ways extreme and without any respectable boundaries.  On top of that, any other instruction which would set respectable boundaries based on common sense, are mocked and derided.  Only in a fools mind does that make sense.

HG and Gene
Both impregnated women when they weren’t married. I’ve never done that. Apparently its a Christian problem. They’re trying to save US from THEM. And the Christian moralists are ranting about saving society from the leftists! Bwahahaha! If you guys would only follow your own advice, as you both wish others would.

Too funny.

Gene, did her dad have an over-under or a pump action?

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie,

If you insist on being an ignorant antogonist you’ll never recognize the obvious flaws in your posts.

Your last post was a great example.  Because you didn’t get your fiance’ pregnant and I did, only Christians have this problem?  Wow.  What a joke.

Arbuckle, Lestat:  Can either of you provide a link to prove that conservatives only want abstinence education taught?

You have both made the claim that my statement was false. That’s your opinion.  Now, how about a factual link?

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

No HG.

If you guys would only follow your own advice, as you both wish others would.

I merely said that its funny that both you and Gene are Christians for abstinence education and both of you engaged in the activities you rail against. I had tons of premarital sex, never got the clap, never had any kids, and had a great time doing it. I am pro premarital sex. Its fun. Plus, young girls are purty and its unacceptable to engage in statutory rape, despite what Palin’s daughter’s ‘baby daddy’ thinks, so you gotta get it in while your still young.

So, you haven’t commented on MTV and hijabs yet…

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Can either of you provide a link to prove that conservatives only want abstinence education taught?

Don’t need to. Ask HG. r108. gene.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Can either of you provide a link to prove that conservatives only want abstinence education taught?

That is what the current leader of the Republican Party wants, it is what Sarah Palin wants, and it is what John McCain wants.

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

McCain:  “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Sparkie, that response is not credible.  Your assertion that all conservatives want abstinence to be taught cannot be made legitimate by 3 people on a blog.

“In fighting a monster one must not become a monster.”
~Nietzsche

Arbuckle, Lestat:  Can either of you provide a link to prove that conservatives only want abstinence education taught?

You have both made the claim that my statement was false. That’s your opinion.  Now, how about a factual link? :

We renew our call for replacing “family planning” programs for teens with increased funding for abstinence education, which teaches abstinence until marriage as the responsible and expected standard of behavior. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-of-wedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS when transmitted sexually. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for abortion and contraception.

Why don’t you provide a link for how Republicans support a comprehensive policy on sex-ed.

My last post was supposed to point out that that was the Republican Party Platform.