I agree Sigfan, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make ‘em drink. The pathetic thing is that they will spew their insanity all the way to the end and never see the irony. I believe we are already seeing some buyer remorse and if we can last through this term we may be able to salvage our nation. Time will tell…

From Wikipedia – Switzerland Health Care

Healthcare in Switzerland is regulated by the Federal Health Insurance Act. Health insurance is compulsory for all persons resident in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). International civil servants, members of permanent missions and their family members are exempted from compulsory health insurance. They can, however, apply to join the Swiss health insurance system, within six months of taking up residence in the country.

Health insurance covers the costs of medical treatment and hospitalisation of the insured. However, the insured person pays part of the cost of treatment. This is done (a) by means of an annual excess (or deductible, called the franchise), which ranges from CHF 300 to a maximum of CHF 2,500 as chosen by the insured person (premiums are adjusted accordingly) and (b) by a charge of 10% of the costs over and above the excess.

Not socialized medicine by any stretch. Notice they pay premiums with deductibles (and out of pocket), just like we do here. The only difference is the Swiss Gov’t regulates the insurance industry nationwide, rather than the fragmented state-by-state regulation we have here. So I guess some here want the federal government to further mandate how private citizens should spend the money they’ve earned?

Obama was in that congress so he gets his share of blame too.

Greg,

Not exactly. Obama was far too busy campaigning for the White House to have actually been much of a presence in Congress. ‘Course he really ahsn’t proven himself to be much of a president either…

… then you are a imbecile.

A weapons-grade masterpiece of understatement!

So now you WANT us to be like the Euro’s?
You nutters really have to get your stories straight.

realitybasedbob on March 12, 2009 at 07:37 am

And now you don’t? You nutters need to get your story straight. Those people are talking with the voice of experience.

Greg in Alabama on March 12, 2009 at 07:51 am

So Greg, you do want the socialized medicine, and social security that comes along with the adoption of European models of economy and governance.
This is refreshing.

So now you WANT us to be like the Euro’s?

You nutters really have to get your stories straight.

I can’t help wondering when the awakening will happen. Do people still not see that this fraud is not a bumbling idiot? He is doing exactly what he set out to do – destroy the USA, capitalism and western civilization. The saddest part is that half of the voters bought it. I’m sure that makes some here happy as evidenced by their continual spouting off with their pedestrian leftist gasbaggery.

So it would make sense that if we spent 75% less on our military we could have lower taxes. Yea, no shit, if we weren’t policing the world we could have lower taxes. What’s your fucking point. You will cry like little bitches if Obama reduces the bloated military budget.

Only a pluperfect moron would believe that Obama and the Democrats would even contemplate actually lowering taxes by an amount equal to what they’d reduce military spending. The economics and finance illiterates in Congress and the White House are determined to spend this country right onto the ash heap of history.

Obamanomics will indeed create new jobs – in China. And should Card-Check pass – sit back and watch every remaining manufacturing company outsource everything it can overseas. Obama has absolutely no idea how an economy works. Bush was short in this department, too, but that doesn’t justify executing a plan that most economists (ones that work in the real world and not academia) know will export jobs and depress the US Economy. The Chinese love it though!

And National Health Care? Can’t Wait! Or… we will wait.. and wait.. and wait…Waiting through the line to get your license plates will be easier than getting a flu shot. Without a significant increase on the supply side of medical delivery, the economy is guaranted to see a shortage of services. And shortages mean long, slow, inefficient waits for service. Now that is productivity! The government will be left with no other option than rationing.

2010 can’t come soon enough. Here’s hoping Republicans get a brain and a backbone to stand against all that we know will fail.

Now that’s change we can believe in.

And Obama is staying true to his promise of creating more jobs. Problem is there all going overseas!

And only an idiot thinks s aorldwide recession is caused in 2 months.

No. Obambam didn’t CAUSE the recession. No one is saying that. The groundwork for this recession was laid 10 years ago, while Slick Willie was playing hide-the-cigar with his own “porkulus”.
( Source: NY Treason Times, September 1999 )

Go ahead. Keep trying to lay it all at the feet of the Republicrats (repeat a lie often enough and the lemmings start to believe you).

Regardless of the direction of the economy when Zero took office, it only takes one (and maybe another) porked up “stimulus” followed by a continued trumped up chant of “Crisis! Crisis!” to not only knock the economy lower, but to keep kicking it while it’s down.

It’s almost as if the last 50 days of economic shrinkage was orchestrated. Hmmm…

This part impressed me:

The collapse of a housing bubble coupled with the strong euro is raising unemployment and slowing growth, reducing the Celtic Tiger’s roar to a whimper. And the news keeps getting worse. More than $5.5 billion (€3.5 billion) was wiped off the value of Irish stocks on Mar. 17, in what commentators have dubbed the “St. Patrick’s Day massacre.”

Must have been all that anticipation of what was coming that made the housing bubble burst and the markets tank.

The actions taken by free marketeers is like taking a handful of charge cards and buying a bunch of crap. It looks good for a while but then the bills come due. That’s the story behind boom times created by conservative fiscal policy.

And Switzerland’s health care is universal and government supported. Most universal care countries have some form of co-pay for those who can afford it over and above the normal taxation support.

Sorry, but I am not getting that “tingly feeling” about putting complete trust for the financial aspects of healthcare to a gummint that has already mismanaged my future Social Security program into utter financial ruin… and Medicaid… and now the national debt.

Don’t know about you, but I don’t want some gummint-appointed pinhead accountant put in charge of my life decisions. Should those bean counters (who, by the way, would not be under obligation via a Hippocratic Oath) deem it too expensive to treat my illness, I would simply be refused treatment. You know, old chap, you’ve lived a good life, but we feel that the money for your chemo-therapy would not be a good return on your investment. It can be better spent on food stamps for younger folks. Sorry, pal.

Nope. No socialized healthcare for me, please.

What I don’t get is how someone who can type on a keyboard thinks that this mess was caused since Jan 20th when Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Indymac, Countrywide, the housing sector, the financial sector and the DOW all crashed and burned last year.

51 days. That’s it. That’s the sum total of days he’s been in office.

I’m just glad your kids are having to live with the consequences of your voting habits. It’s only fair.

Is everyone in Alabama as stupid as you?

Um, nevermind.

Is everyone in Alabama as stupid as you?

Dino, I am repeating an article YOU posted. It tells you that Obama’s policies have made the stock market tank. He has “over promised” and “under produced”. By the way, Democrats have held the Congress for over two years now. They deserve the blame for the economy as much as anyone. Obama was in that congress so he gets his share of blame too.

To be called stupid by YOU of all people is a joke. Three times yesterday I was able to refute your own argument with the very articles you posted as support. If I am stupid then you are a imbecile , um nevermind.

crshedd, Tax cuts? Yeah, Bush got some tax cuts through. But not enough to lure businesses to America. We are still the highest corporate taxed nation in the world.

Why would a business want to come here? Certainly no so they can hand over 35% (more?) of their profits to a gummint that has produced no tangible product for that business.

It is far better for that company to stay where it is and use the difference in the tax rates (pronounced “income”) to employ people, pay its own debt, fund a little R&D, whatever. The extra money will be better off in the company’s hands.

The con rhetoric is getting increasingly shrill and unhinged.

No doubt they’re feeling the effects of their voting patterns and feeling frustrated that their conservative Utopia never came to pass and that all hopes are dashed.

Tell the kids to enjoy their Republican Depression.

poor Greg in Alabama; hooked by the blog roach again

Your thread is a fucking joke, right?

Switzerland spends 1% GDP on its military.

US spends 4.5% GDP on its military.

It’s simple economics, really. By keeping corporate taxes high, growth is stifled due to the largess that must be paid to the gummint (again, the gummint gets 35% of the profit for producing what?). Worse yet, the tax burden simply chases corporations over to nations where they CAN grow.

Lowering the corporate tax rate allows business a much better chance to thrive and grow, keeping much more of the money in the pockets of the business. This is passed on to new employees (JOBS!!!) vendors, etc. As the companies grow, they make even more money and they pay even more taxes than before — but the tax bill is much less painful because the percentage is much less painful.

Yes, we spend a lot of our GDP on our military. For good reason: It keeps us safe, as is the primary responsibility of a nation’s government (as opposed to “bridges to no where”, “Senator KKK Byrd Libraries”, etc.). It also aids in keeping our less fortunate allies safe as well as providing a measure of protection for just about anyone who asks for our help.

It’s called “peace through superior firepower.” And it works quite well Although, seemingly some still need to be taught the lesson the hard way, but that is another topic. Throw a rock at us, and we can retaliate with a boulder. It keeps the jackals away from the gates.

I have a better idea. Rather than cutting 75% of the military budget ( I certainly hope you were being sarcastic), let us instead cut 100% of our funding for the purveyors of international corruption: the U[seless] N[itwits]. We pick up approximately 30% of the UN’s annual budget. And in return we watch as the UN sexually exploits women and children, turns a blind eye to human rights violations (Iraq, Iran, Cuba, et al.), and plays fast and loose with bribes, kickbacks, and under-the-table payments (as in the Oil-for-Food scandal).

Cutting this eyesore out of our budget would be a huge down payment on the suddenly overwhelming national debt caused by the Teh One’s Trojan Pig.

Ireland’s collapse is not occurring out of anticipation. That’s the same weak argument that says the markets tanked here anticipating an Obama victory.

Then there’s this:

According to Fergal O’Brien and Louisa Nesbitt of Bloomberg News, “up to 50,000 people” are heading for the country’s exits “as Ireland’s economy shrinks the most of any euro-area nation.”

A lot of good tax cuts and deregulation are if the prosperity they create lasts only a few years.

And Switzerland’s health care is universal and government supported. Most universal care countries have some form of co-pay for those who can afford it over and above the normal taxation support.

Reread the quote from Wikipedia on Switzerlands health care system. It is not government subsidized, it government mandated. You get a choice of deductibles and the premiums are adjusted accordingly. It is goverment regulated mandatory insurance paid for by the individual – unlike the UK or Canada where it is paid by the government after confiscating the funds from the individual.

I know quite a few Swiss nationals and they will tell you that the quality of healthcare there is quite good – but also quite expensive.

the stupid will believe what they believe.

I smell an autobiography in the works.

Its all yours now Dino. Your boy is the one killing the stock market. Your boy is the one that has already admitted that his first stimulus package was a failure. Your boy’s policies are the ones driving us to depression.

What part of my statement is wrong?

This if from an article you posted. You thought it was true then, whats changed?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123671107124286261.html

However, economists’ main criticism of the Obama team centered on delays in enacting key parts of plans to rescue banks. “They overpromised and underdelivered,” said Stephen Stanley of RBS Greenwich Capital. “Secretary Geithner scheduled a big speech and came out with just a vague blueprint. The uncertainty is hanging over everyone’s head.” Mr. Geithner unveiled the Obama administration’s plans Feb. 10, but he offered few details, and stocks sank on the news. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is down almost 20% since the announcement, as multiple issues have weighed on investors’ confidence.

Obama’s dithering has sunk the stock market. New York has already tried high spending, high taxes, “green” energy and light rail. What has been the result?

Despite these repeated gimmicks to stimulate economic growth, the private sector here has failed to prosper, taxes remain astronomical, and the public “votes with its feet.” In 2008, Forbes magazine listed Buffalo as one of the top 10 “fastest dying cities.” The previous year, Harvard economist Edward Glaeser wrote an article entitled “Can Buffalo Ever Come Back?” The subtitle was “Probably Not — and the Government Should Stop Bribing People to Stay There.”

Glaeser argued that decades of public spending — on office towers, sports arenas, urban renewal, and the light rail system — failed to halt Buffalo’s population decline from a high of 585,000 in 1950 to under 290,000 today. The surrounding area has not fared much better; census data shows that the Buffalo-Niagara Metropolitan Statistical Area lost 51,000 people since 2000. Ditto for Rochester; the city’s population fell from 328,000 in 1930 to 219,000 in 2000.

People who leave the area tend to head for the low-tax, pro-growth, right-to-work states of the Sun Belt, especially North Carolina and Florida.

But at least the people have someplace to go. If the Obama “stimulus” program replicates the same kind of heavy-handed political agenda and tax policies found in Western New York on a nationwide basis, where will the people go then?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/the_stimulus_will_lead_america.html

What part of reality don’t you get?

To begin, the obvious: In 1986, Ireland slashed spending in areas such as health expenditures, education, agricultural spending, roads and housing, and the military, while abolishing agencies such as the National Social Services Board, the Health Education Bureau, and regional development organizations. By 1993, government non-interest spending declined to 41 percent of GNP, down from a high of 55 percent of GNP in 1985. Subsequently, it significantly lowered corporate tax rates to 12.5 percent, at a time when the lowest corporate rates in Europe were 30 percent and U.S. rates stood at 35 percent. Since 2004, Ireland also has offered a 20 percent tax credit on research and development.

From your own article Dino. The Irish economic miracle was caused by government spending cuts and a cut of the corporate tax rate. This attracted new business and allowed the migration of smart people, innovation and capital to Ireland.

Whether speaking countries or companies, success is a result of the ability to attract and retain capital and talent. Businesses and financial markets, rather than unaccountable government bureaucracies, make proper matches between the two. They leverage creativity and ambition to better channels.

What is causing Ireland to lose its competitiveness?

Again from YOURown article, fear of higher taxes. The Eurozone has a policy known as harmonization. That means that tax rates must be equal across the Eurozone.

hat may be, but there are real fears that if the European Commission succeeds at harmonizing corporate tax rates across Europe, Ireland’s competitiveness would be further eroded. “It would remove significant competitive advantages from economies such as Ireland that have used a competitive corporate tax rate as a sweetener for multinationals to locate here,” Power says.

It has also given control of its fiscal policy to the Eurozone so it has no way to use monetary policy to help its plight.

The problem for Ireland is that, as part of the euro zone, it has no control over either interest rates or exchange rates. That leaves the country no room to maneuver its way out of recession via monetary policy.

Finally, it allows its Unions to set pay rates. Shockingly this has caused Ireland to become non competitive. Who would have ever thought that pandering to Unions would cause businesses to become non-competitive?

At the same time, economists believe that rising wages also must be capped. Roughly every three years, Ireland reaches a national pay agreement, in which unions and employers organizations work together to set national wage increases. “The way we’ll regain our competitiveness in the short term is to ensure we don’t pay ourselves too much,” Ahearne says. “We want to convince multinationals considering investment that Ireland is not a chronically high-inflation country.”

I can see why you cherry picked those articles Dino. If you would have posted all the article it would have really hurt your argument. The threat of harmonization IE raising taxes, giving power over your economy to a centralized government, and allowing unions to set wages taxes sound like what the Democrats want to the US. YOUR OWN ARTICLE say’s that is what is killing Ireland right now.

So Greg, you do want the socialized medicine, and social security that comes along with the adoption of European models of economy and governance. This is refreshing.

NO, you do understand, we are arguing that lower taxes and low regulations lead to more jobs and a good economy. We used Switzerland as an example because you guys are always telling us that we need to be “more like Europe”. The funny thing is, after years of socialism, they are trying to be more like us. Now that they are trying to be more like us, you guys don’t want us to be more like them anymore. Funny that, Europeans aren’t so smart when their experience with socialism causes them to abandon the cause. Then they become greedy capitalists and unworthy of emulation.

Whenever he attempts to be civil, Dino makes the mistake of using half-truths, evasions, exaggerations, misdirections and outright baldfaced lies. Gets nailed by Bat, Sig, Greg, etc. and outed as a total doof. Resorts to fantastic delusion, nakedly obvious projection, and lets loose his sadistic nature with crowing about people suffering recessions, depressions, joblessness, high taxes, any anything else he can find to take pride in.

Dino, why don’t you tell us all, finally and at long last, how your ways will make everything right? Oh wait, you can’t, because you as stated are a self-deluded sadist. You don’t want everything to be right, you don’t want prosperity, you don’t want anyone to be successful.

Blogroach is right.

As long as things continue this way, overseas banking and incorporation and so forth are the way to go to avoid the thievery and keep the economy running.