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Friday, April 29, 2005

Sgrena’s Car Was Speeding

Italian authorities have disputed the American claim that the car transporting freed communist journalist Giuliana Sgrena was traveling at a rapid pace toward the American checkpoint where soldiers fired upon it when it failed to slow down. The speed question has, since the beginning of this controversy, been a point of contention.

Now it would appear as though we have an answer to it:

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US satellite reportedly recorded a checkpoint shooting in Iraq last month, enabling investigators to reconstruct how fast a car carrying a top Italian intelligence official and a freed hostage was traveling when US troops opened fire.

The report, which aired Thursday on CBS News, said US investigators concluded from the recording that the car was traveling at a speed of more than 60 miles (96 km) per hour.

Giuliana Sgrena has said the car was traveling at a normal speed of about 30 miles an hour when the soldiers opened fired, wounding her and killing Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who had just secured her release from a month's captivity.

US soldiers said at the time of the March 4 incident that the car approached at a high rate of speed and that they fired only after it failed to respond to hand signals, flashing bright lights and warning shots.


I think its become pretty clear to anyone who has been paying attention, and who's perception of the matter is clouded with a partisan desire to make America look bad, that the tragedy was the result of the Italians making some serious errors in judgment when planning the rescue. Our soldiers reacted according to their training and the rules of engagement.

This is a controversy that can be put to bed.

Update:

I may have spoken too quickly. There is apparently more to this report than meets the eye.

Comments

Avatar for likwidshoe

In short -

the communist lied,
the Italians covered up their own malfeasance,
liberals and anti-American people (same thing, I know) blamed America right off the bat and made excuses for their maleficence
and the American military was vindicated because they were simply following military protocal.

Color me not surprised.

My question to liberals and anti-American people (same thing, I know): why were you so quick to blame America?

likwidshoe on April 29, 2005 at 03:04 pm
Avatar for Aaron

Goooooooooooooood night!

Aaron on April 29, 2005 at 03:04 pm
Avatar for maxxdog

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!
This woman’s support of the terrorists cost a good man his life. The “ransom” paid for her is helping to kill Americans and Iraqis!
I wish the bullet would have found her instead of Mr Calipari, an honorable man!

maxxdog on April 29, 2005 at 05:04 pm
Avatar for WOOF

Where’s the video, where’s the car?

WOOF on April 29, 2005 at 06:04 pm
Avatar for maxxdog

The car is in Italy. It was not “bullet riddled” as has been stated in some places. 3 maybe 4 bullet holes from the pictures shown. No main gun rounds like the lying bitch tried to say.
A good man died protecting this lying ho and that saddens me. Brave Italian soldiers have died helping Iraqis gain freedom and this bitch lives on.
Life is not always as we would have it be.

maxxdog on April 30, 2005 at 03:04 am
Avatar for Sluggo

The left is reflexively anti-American.  Marxian philosophy says “jump” and the left bleats “off which cliff?”

Sluggo on April 30, 2005 at 09:06 pm
Avatar for Collin

Deep in the churning bowels of Scott’s White House Briefing Room, the unholy tension began to build. Tormented by sweat-breaking revelations and squeezed tightly, Jeff’s bald head squirmed side to side, desperately fighting back against the constricting maneuvers of angry protestations. The intensity of the flagrant, scandalous behavior became too great to for him bear. He couldn’t hold it back any longer! Losing control, his life story spasmodically surged forth as he was ripped out of the place, spraying the seedy news on the publicly exposed back of the entire Administration.

Collin on May 2, 2005 at 11:05 pm
Avatar for Aaron

... what are you smoking? It’s probably not very good for your health…

Aaron on May 3, 2005 at 03:06 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

Good God Collin, maybe you should get out more.

Seth Williams on May 3, 2005 at 04:05 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

Lorenzo, a day late and a dollar short, said:
“The car was shot at, for no reason.”

Except that it wasn’t for no reason Lorenzo. They were speeding unannoced towards a roadblock and ignoring warning shots. It was the irresponsibility of the the very agents in that car that got them killed.

It’s unfortunate, but also very true.

Seth Williams on July 4, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Avatar for likwidshoe

The car was shot at, for no reason. That’s it.

Hey ah...Lorenzo?  Did you miss the fact that the car was speeding towards a checkpoint in a war zone?  Miss that one there buddy?

People are right to be pissed, and justice must be made.

First people have to get their facts straight and then the conclusion that justice has already been metted out will surface.

likwidshoe on July 4, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Avatar for Lorenzo

The car was shot at, for no reason. That’s it.
The fact that Sgrena is an idiot communist
does not change the fact that Americans killed an innocent Italian agent. People are right to be pissed, and justice must be made.

Lorenzo on July 4, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Avatar for Lorenzo

"First people have to get their facts straight and then the conclusion that justice has already been metted out will surface.”

I agree with this.

When I said “justice” I meant also the necessary investigations to get the facts straight, as you say.

Lorenzo on July 5, 2005 at 04:07 pm
Avatar for Lorenzo

The thing is, ther are different versions of the facts.
The fact that the car was speeding and ignored
warning signs is only the version provided by American military authorities. Some witnesses tell a different story.
The fact that the driver was so stupid as to ignore
warning signs at a checkpoint is a bit hard to beleive.The fact is, you should not shoot first and ask questions later. Also, another version is that US military authorities were notified of the car being due to pass there.

To those who wrote about “liberal” people:
being liberal has nothing to do with anything here.

Plus, I am not sure what “liberal” means. In Europe, for example, being “liberal” means having liberal doctrines and views in economics, little government intervention, that is, what would be normally defined as “conservative”.
It looks to me especially Americans use the word “liberal” to define anybody who says something different from the traditional conservatives, even if it what he’s saying makes perfect sense.

Lorenzo on July 5, 2005 at 04:07 pm
Avatar for Sphagnum

.The fact is, you should not shoot first and ask questions later.

Actually, in a war, that’s exactly what you do.  What were the soldiers expected to do when a speeding car would not slow down for a mandatory checkpoint?  When in a war zone, don’t screw around like these people were

Sphagnum on July 5, 2005 at 04:07 pm
Avatar for Sphagnum

1)That was not a battle zone.

Um.... The entirty of Iraq is a battle zone…

2)In a war, you don’t shoot people that you don’t know if they’re enemies or comrades/allies. Missed that, buddy?

Are you just ignorant? War is exactly the place that you shoot people you don’t know… War sucks, that’s why it’s war.  If you have a designated checkpoint in the middle of the night and someone is speeding at you with no signs of stopping, eventually you HAVE to shoot them, right?  When else is suppose to happen..

Once again, and for the last time, the fact that the car was speeding is just the official US version, not necessarily the truth. That’s what we’re discussing here.

It’s pretty well proven at this point, even according to Sgrena’s own account of the event, hydroplaning on puddles and such…

Sphagnum on July 11, 2005 at 05:07 pm
Avatar for Lorenzo

"Actually, in a war, that’s exactly what you do. What were the soldiers expected to do when a speeding car would not slow down for a mandatory checkpoint?”

1)That was not a battle zone.
2)In a war, you don’t shoot people that you don’t know if they’re enemies or comrades/allies. Missed that, buddy?
3)Once again, and for the last time, the fact that the car was speeding is just the official US version, not necessarily the truth. That’s what we’re discussing here.

Plus, the fact that the US military did try (without managing, thanks to a mistake in using Adobe Reader) to conceal the names of the people involved and other important information to the Italian authorities, leads one to doubt of the validity of many claims, including the fact that the car was speeding.

Let alone the lack of respect that this represents towards an official inquiry conducted by a sovereign country, Italy, investigating the death of one of its citizens. Don’t you think?

Lorenzo on July 11, 2005 at 05:07 pm
Avatar for Lorenzo

1)That was not a battle zone.
2)In a war, you don’t shoot people that you don’t know if they’re enemies or comrades/allies. Missed that, buddy?

I am rewriting myself here. About these two points I wrote 1) and 2) I am not an expert in combat zones or checkpoints, so probably it was not appropriate for me to say this in these drastic terms applied on this case. Still, I don’t think this this was the correct behavior at a military checkpoint even IF the car was speeding.

I confirm what I wrote at point 3.

Lorenzo on July 11, 2005 at 05:07 pm
Avatar for likwidshoe

Lorenzo said, Still, I don’t think this this was the correct behavior at a military checkpoint even IF the car was speeding.

When the enemy is known for speeding to checkpoints only to blow up when they get there, shooting a speeding car is the only thing the U.S. military can do.  As you would say, “Missed that, buddy?”

likwidshoe on July 11, 2005 at 07:07 pm
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