Senator Graham: We’re Going Over The Cliff

Sen-Lindsey-Graham

Senator Lindsey Graham, one of the Republicans who has deemed himself willing to increase taxes as part of a “fiscal cliff” deal, says that we’re probably going over that cliff:

“I think we’re going over the cliff. It’s pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. This offer doesn’t remotely deal with entitlement reform in a way to save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security from imminent bankruptcy. It raises $1.6 trillion on job creators that will destroy the economy and there are no spending controls,” Graham said on CBS’s “Face The Nation.”

Graham had signaled a willingness to violate Grover Norquist’s anti-tax pledge to avert the fiscal cliff if Democrats made an effort to reform entitlements. But he said Sunday the White House’s plan for entitlement reform was laughable.

“I’m serious about revenue,” Graham said. “You can limit deductions to $40 or $50,000 a person, which takes care of the middle class. Upper income Americans will lose their deductions, and raise about $800 billion of revenue. But I’ll only do that if we do entitlement reform, and the president’s plan when it comes to entitlement reform is just, quite frankly a joke.”

Obama’s plan was massive tax increases, and the removal of the debt ceiling as a check on national debt creation, and a tiny dollop of spending cuts.

That’s worse than going over the cliff. Republicans shouldn’t even negotiate. Unless Democrats come back to the table with something more serious, let’s take the sequestration cuts and tax increases.

Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner is saying no deal unless Republicans agree to higher marginal tax rates:

“There’s not going to be an agreement without rates going up,” Geithner told CNN’s Candy Crowley. “If Republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the Clinton levels, a time when the American economy was doing extraordinarily well, then there will not be an agreement.”

It’s ironic how often Democrats talk about Clinton-era tax rates as if they were a boon to the economy. If that were true, why are they so insistent that tax rates not go up on middle class Americans now?

That’s the bluff Republicans should call. Let’s go back to Clinton-era tax rates, which would represent an enormous tax hike from current levels, and see what that does to our economic recovery.

Meanwhile, for comic relief, here’s Tim Geithner trying to explain on Fox News Sunday how counting savings from ending wars we weren’t going to continue fighting anyway isn’t a budget gimmick.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • WOOF

    Lindsay claims he’ll do Krauthammer and
    springboard dive into a waterless pool.
    He won’t.
    The election indicated voters don’t want “reform”
    of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

    • Thresherman

      If that were true, the Democrats would be in control of the House.
      On the other hand, if Obama had said before the election that his plan included removing the cap on the national debt and drive it up by massively increasing spending without balancing it with an EQUAL amount of revenue, Romney might well be President. But instead, while demanding every last detail of what Romney planned to do, the most onesided Washington Press Corps (Obama would pronounce it Corpse and that is a fair description of the idea of a fair and unbiased press) in the history of the nation, decied to give Obama a pass on that along with Benghazi, Fast and Furious and scandal after scandal in the government funded green energy sector.
      As in 2008, the Democrats are mis-interpeting their electoral victory with what the people really want. They mainly voted for the status quo of the last 2 years and not a return to the first 2 years of runaway Federal spending Democratic high handedness that lead to the electoral drubbing in 2010.
      Either way the Democrats and the lap dog media is going blame the GOP no matter what, so they might as well get the blame for adhering to their principals instead of abandoning them.

      • WOOF

        The house hardly changes because of state house gerrymandering, not a good indicator.

        Blaming Obama for Benghazi, Fast and Furious; is FOX NEWS fantasy. The people spoke and keep speaking on social programs . They are off the table.

        • Thresherman

          Yeah, that is why it turned in 2006, gerrymandering. Nice try.
          And if you actually had some reading comprehension, you would have noted that I did not say that Obama was to blame for Benghazi but that the media gave him a pass on it. Because the media chose to ignore it, nearly 3 months later we still do not know what happened, except it was not the result of a little seen You Tube video as the Adminstration repeatedly claimed. Hell, they are even giving him a pass for sending out Susan Rice to lie for him on their very own shows. Whores have more ethics than the Washington Press Corps.
          If there is any fantasies here, it is with those who believe we can expect a fair, balanced and informative perspective from the majority of the media. In 2007, a member of the Washington Press Corps said that it was the constitutional duty of the press corps to have an adversarial relationship with the President. Has there been a truth in newsreporting law like there is a truth in advertising law, he would have been compelled say that he believed that only applied to Republican Presidents and not to Democratic ones,more especially if they have a certain ethnic background.

          • WOOF

            A 30 seat turnover out of 435 means almost everyone remains in their district. Seats are mostly safe havens for incumbents.

          • mickey_moussaoui

            Eventually the public wakes up and you and yours will be exposed to sunlight

          • awfulorv

            You spelled pubic, as in Pusses, wrong…

        • $16179444

          yeah, but you continue to blame 9/11 on Bush – amazing the hypocrisy of the left

          • camsaure

            Yes, While you are absoluty correct on this, GW Bush, is also a progressive, as well as his father was. Time for the consevatives.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Did you vote for the progressive, George Bush?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Who should 9/11 be blamed on?

          • guest

            Clinton, for letting Bin Laden go, twice, you child of mongoloids.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Raygun, for arming them in the first place.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Reagan was bowing down to the Taliban in the White House.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            He really was a lousy President. How many of his people went to jail, about 130 or so?

          • Bob

            obama funded and installed his Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and embedded them in Homeland Security..

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So the rule is never blame Bush, always Blame Clinton or Obama, is that the nutter rule?

          • guest

            So,child of the mongoloids, you want to blame Bush for Clinton letting Bin Laden go, twice? Is that the rule of idiots?

          • $16179444

            rule? LMFAO — everything has been blamed on Bush. even now as the world burns from the policies of the idiot you worship, the blame is still on Bush — don’t worry, I’m sure master will toss you a few crumbs for being a good little sheep.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yet, strangely, you manage to ignore how everything is blamed on Clinton and Obama.

            Tell you what. If you got the balls, why don’t you engage in a little battle of facts? Let’s lay out what spending was the result of Bush’s policies in 2008, and what Obama added to it. We can first start off by seeing if you even understand that much.

            We can just have a little exchange of fact and verify what’s true and what’s fiction. Deal?

          • $16179444

            you tell me.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You’re the guy mocking those who put some blame on Bush. If you are purporting to be an authority, back it up, son.

        • mickey_moussaoui

          Obama
          attempted to cover up both Benghazi and F&F. You are a useful tool mr puppy.
          So why the lies? Where is that Obama transparency you dolts keep spreading like manure on a plowed field?

          Who
          gave the order to run guns to Mexico? Who gave the order to change the official intelligence from Benghazi?
          Keep your head in your ass. It fits.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      A 3% win does not speak for “the voters”. The “voters” want a REAL compromise on both sides. The sheep like you simply treat this like a sports event

      • dakotacyr

        Of course it does.

        • mickey_moussaoui

          Ordinarily I don’t bother with your simpleton comments. In this case all I have to say is; 1.compared to what?…2.at what cost?…3. what hard evidence do you have to defend your stupidity?

          • camsaure

            Hate to say it, but he demonstrates his stupidity on this blog constantly.

  • Neiman

    Every liberal forgets that it was Clinton, driven to sanity by a GOP controlled Congress and without them, he would have failed.

    Politicians are by nature cowards, so I don’t have much faith in the GOP to demand compromise and concessions and Obama is willing to let the economy fail to blame the GOP and help the democrats take back the House in two years.

  • sbark

    The GOP ought to double down on demands for entitlement reforms, as well as reform on the biggest tax increase in world history……ObamaCare.
    We might slip past this thing they call the “fiscal cliff” with GOP appeasment once again to those who have waged economic and social war against our society for decades…
    ….but the true fical cliff lies in no entitlement / welfare reforms which eat up 100% of Fed Inflow, let alone the effect of ObamaCare…….this fiscal cliff is minor in comparison

  • Roy_Bean

    So this just means that Turbo Tax Tim will be evading taxes at a higher rate.

    • two_amber_lamps

      Makes you wonder, is Timmy Tax Cheat in agreement with raising taxes on himself… but of course! Why worry about taxes when those are for the common folk to pay!

      • $8194357

        His money is safe in China..

        • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

          Unfortunately, no one’s money will be safe anywhere. There will be widespread collapse. The elites will be insulated from the consequences of their actions by simply voting themselves higher salaries and other benefits. Money itself is not an asset that can be protected—only tangible property and gold and silver to some extent. Brokers, even those who are usually optimistic, are calling for emergency meetings with clients around mid-January.

          • camsaure

            Ya got to know who you can trust, the barter system can still work, even if not total collapse, trading goods and services can help offset damage and pain. Know who are your true friends.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            I know whom I can trust here. I have cussed and discussed survival tactics with ex-military and other patriots. The weapons, information, and surveillance situation is far more unbalanced between government and civilians than ever in history. Add to that a population that is at least half government sympathetic and it is clear that resistance is futile. The only hope for a rapid turnaround is—as Thomas Sowell has suggested—a military takeover. Being in a cold climate, heavily dependent on energy and without reliable local food supplies for half the year is another drawback. Being in the daily company of countrymen who have succumbed to self-hatred and moral degeneration is a sickening prospect that offends my sense of taste. In traditional tyrannies one could often depend on more of the general populace for support in rebellion. That is not the case in today’s United States. It has been Sovietized. For all the anti-Semitism that has emerged in this country over the last few decades, it is ironic that suddenly virtually everyone has become a 1930s Jew who firmly believes that what is happening is not really happening. I would not do well in a camp, and I am certain, based on collected data, that lists have already been drawn up along with the organization, training and arming of personnel for purposes of population transfer to camps. I do not get my information from Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, and suchlike whom I never listen to—I get it from observation, analysis, and considerable political, historical, and psychological knowledge and research. I continue to monitor the situation, develop new information sources and observe the behavior and “thinking” of my “fellow Americans.” At this point everything indicates disaster with very long term consequences. In any case, I am unlikely to be alive through much of it. I do consult with my children, two of whom are in all likelihood doomed liberals. They are the main concern, along with my wife. I would like to have a safe haven and preserved assets in place for all of them.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I am glad you have admitted that your crazy is your very own, and that it’s not originating from the likes of the Glen Beck craziness that has infected your party. You gladly own your paranoia that’s based on your own conclusions. Well done.

            By the way, it’s not “information” that you have collected, it’s a conspiracy theory that you have imagined. Let’s be clear about that.

          • $8194357

            Sad but true, IMO.

          • awfulorv

            Not to be flippant but, “People in Hell want Ice water too, but they don’t get it”, applies quite well to the situation. BTW, if one considers finding a hiding spot in this vast land, Google, and it’s sky cameras, have made that nearly impossible.

          • $8194357

            Sad but true…
            And on target, goal and agenda, IMO..

          • banjo kid

            Gold and silver owners will be surprised when the government will buy it back at a reduced rate leaving them with a empty bank account .

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            This https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/13b6ac0e05872f10

            from the Wall Street Daily. A short time ago you’d have thought it was from Alex Jones. Protecting assets will be difficult indeed. Many people are getting into real tangibles: necessary home repairs, buying rental properties, foods suitable for long-term storage, fishing tackle, better and more practical vehicles, moving south, studying alternative medicine, etc.—people who would never have before contemplated doing so. Even my Mary Sunshine Ameriprise financial advisor is starting to get real serious, as are his colleagues. Beware the Ides of January.

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            P.S.—My daughter, who has run a very successful business in Russia for over 10 years and has a good understanding of such matters—with tongue-somewhat-in-cheek—suggests that one “obtain a Party Card”—i.e., work your way as fast as possible into a secure position in the American Communist Party (a.k.a. Democrat Party). Probably a maneuver most of the liberal trolls on this blog are attempting. Better get a move-on fellas, it’s getting crowded at the top!

    • guest

      “Turbo Tax Tim will be evading taxes at a higher rate”

      And willie bonilla AKA hannitized, also.

  • jimmypop

    “I’m serious about revenue,”

    i hate this shit. SAY TAXES YOU COWARD.

    the longer i watch, and its already been LONG, the more i think the gop is full of the dumbest our country has to offer. they have little to no vision (those that do are called out as kooks and/ or nazis) and are weak. its sickening.

    • $8194357

      Investments in our (the elitists) future would be the proper
      termonolgy when real understanding is applied..

    • camsaure

      You have to realize the difference is between progessive /socialists and Constitutional conservatives. I am sure you already have, but for others, just do a search on “Fabian socialists and or the progressive movement in America” Be sure to read more than just one description, most descriptions are usually tilted towards it in favor. But most with any sense of decency or intelligence should see through all the BS.

  • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

    Have fun everyone. We will be leaving for … elsewhere.

    • $8194357

      God Bless flamer..

    • Matthew Hawkins

      You can’t leave fast enough.

      When you abandon your country do I still have to call you a patriot?

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        Along with many others, I no longer have a country. In any case, it should go back to the Indians and Hispanics a.o. The U.S. is on fast-track to becoming a communist state ruled by criminals and populated by fools and I’m too old to want to participate in what will be coming …

        • $8194357

          It is the pits to see it coming isn’t it..
          And the know it all know nothings haven’t got a clue..

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            It was extremely frustrating to watch. The Marxists have implemented every step of their plans as though they were dealing with children. Even they have been shocked at their success. One cannot blame them for not fully announcing their plans or for not telling us exactly what they were going to do. It will be a hard, hard lesson. Burke’s line that “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it” will come down hard.

          • $8194357

            yup

        • camsaure

          Stick around, we need ya, I was a pretty good fighter in my day(even though that aint cool to libs now days) And still can. I am gettin up there, but still don’t run, and don’t plan to. If my Grandkids see me in an obuma concentration camp, they will realize in their minds I was correct in leiu of all the propaganda and PC crap. Don’t run and don’t surrender. We whom actually work have more at stake in this country then slackers and bums. (and of course the socialists)

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            I appreciate the sentiments. Remember, in the Stalinist period many children and grandchildren ratted out their parents and grandparents to the NKVD, for which service they were honored and rewarded. I have seen this mentality in many people who are no longer children, and God knows what monsters have been bred in the public schools. As I say, I will be dropping by this blog from time to time, but right now I am formulating a series of essays which I can send to wherever from Ecuador, Costa Rica or some other place in the warm south. Some might appear in The Dakota Beacon.

          • $8194357

            ( in the Stalinist period many children and grandchildren ratted out their parents and grandparents to the NKVD, for which service they were honored and rewarded.)
            Nazi Germany as well..
            Reminds me of ‘corperate americas’ recognition
            and team work awards. Little bennie to hang on the wall
            for good corperate citizenship and telling on co-workers who aren’t giving 110% to mother company..

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The Obama concentration Camp?

            Rob, you have grown some pretty good nutters here. Congratulations. Your tree is dropping nuts like no other. I can only hope more nut balls continue to flee the country.

  • Lynn Bergman

    The so-called fiscal cliff is, in reality, like the water park ride in which we first do a free fall that scares the heck out of us but then enter a recovery angle that re-directs us and slows our speed to come to a “safe” place. That “safe” place will be the realization that “spending cuts” were not the disaster we anticipated… but tax increases are the curse from hell to our economy.
    Or we can just cut the spending, without raising taxes… like we should… and avoid the water park ride? It’s up to our leaders to decide.

    • The Grey

      The only leader in the last 100 years got second in the GOP primary. It’s a little late for this kind of realization and a little late for any real hope. The GOP and the cronies made their bed, this blog and the MSM fully supporting the status quo and expecting different results. Leaders in the GOP, don’t make me laugh!

      • camsaure

        Do not even blame this blog. This blog is probably more responsible for exposing and clarifying what happens in ND politics than any other source. Can you think of any better?

    • camsaure

      OK, But where are the leaders? Progressive Republicans are only better then Progressive Democrats in that the pain is longer and slower, the end result is the same. But I have to ask, . Does that make them any less liars or any more honorable?

  • $8194357

    Well?

    Whens the brown shirts come a knocking?

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/obamas-quietly-released-insider-threat-policy-memo/

    Barack Obama continues to release important information and executive orders late on Friday afternoons or around the time of holidays so that they are not as noticed by the public, or at least don’t get the media attention they should. Just prior to Thanksgiving, the White House published a memo from Barack Obama, in which he lays out guidelines for executive agencies to establish effective “insider threat programs.”

    The memorandum was issued on November 21, 2013 and is titled National Insider Threat Policy and Minimum Standards for Executive Branch Insider Threat Programs. It was issued to “heads of executive departments and agencies.” The short memo reads as follows:

    Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/obamas-quietly-released-insider-threat-policy-memo/#ixzz2DwbRIm4Q

    • borborygmi

      I am starting to buy some wire so I could put up my own little Gulag in the back yard. You are invited to come and enjoy my ‘hospitality’

  • camsaure

    With no help from you, Lindsey, Rick Berg etal, You helped set this up about a year ago.

  • $16179444

    no worries, i’m sure after his 4 million Hawaiian vacation (another one!) obama will get to work….hanni must be so excited!

  • Stuart

    THIS IS MY TAKE…WE HAVE SO MANY UNFUNDED MANDATES, THAT WE ARE OVER THE CLIFFK RIGHT NOW. THE ONLY WAY POLITICIANS CAN FIX THE PROBLEM IS TO BORROW MORE MONEY,RAISE THE RETIREMENT AGE HIGHER, THE MEDICARE AGE HIGER, RAISE THE DEBT CEILING HIGHER AND PRINT OUT MORE MONEY QE-4 TO DEVALUATE YOU NET WORTH. SOMETHING THEY DON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WITH THEIR GUARENTEED RETIREMENT AND BENEFITS.

    And many of them being millionaires already.

    • geoff

      I agree Stuart. We hit the cliff when the debt hit 15 trillion. All pooliticans have done is prolong the inevitable. Let it happen, then we can rebuild. It will most likely take 50 years to recover from the first 4 years of Obama. Let’s not let it last 100 years by giving the POS his way.

  • Stuart

    Camsaure,

    You are a dreamer..lost in an inigma.

  • HideFromObama

    This is all ridiculous. The GOP is screwed either way, because the Dems control the narrative. If they go over the cliff, it’s the “obstructionist GOP that did it-they are protecting the rich at the expense of the middle class” If they agree to a tax hike, then it’s “Well, the GOP agreed to vote for tax increases which are hurting our economy-Dear Leader Obama is trying to now remove those tax increases” Either way, they GOP should never have agreed to the fiscal cliff in the first place. They got beat there, they are sure to lose no matter what happens here. And THAT is why Obama can toe a hard line. Why should he agree to cuts? The GOP is screwed no matter the outcome here. And he now knows the public believes his BS, so he can spin the outcome however he sees fit. The GOP is now irrelevant because they can’t articulate their principles and they have been too stupid to quit bringing a knife to a gunfight.

  • borborygmi

    Let her rip. OVer the cliff we go. Both sides will have things cut near and dear to them, raise the taxes, cut spending and lower the debt.

    • camsaure

      Are you really that foolish to believe that there will be any real cuts?

  • LastBestHope

    Graham is right. Obama wants it.
    The only remaining item is for the GOP to be clearly seen as willing to deal, and not get hung with the “obstructionist” tag. They did that today with their written offer of a $2.2 Trillion plan, signed by the House leadership, including Paul Ryan.
    Ball in Obama’s court.

    ANALYSIS: by Jeffrey H. Anderson

    “First off, it’s not a “fiscal cliff.” What we’re slated to hit as of New Year’s Day, as the Wall Street Journal notes, is a tax cliff. Our fiscal cliff, which drops off into a far deeper canyon, is what looms because of our $16,000,000,000,000+ debt and the runaway entitlement spending that fuels it — Medicare, Medicaid, (and now) Obamacare. In truth, the debt deal passed in the summer of 2011 — which the press now says we must scrap if we are to avoid the “fiscal cliff” — was designed to postpone our going over the (actual) fiscal cliff.

    In poker, if you have a weak hand, you have two choices: fold or bluff. The problem for the Republican House is that this is like a crooked game of 7-card stud — most of the cards were dealt face-up, and a couple of the others are marked. In short, everybody can see that the GOP has a weak hand.

    The reason why Obama has a strong hand is not because he just won a whopping 50.6 percent of the popular vote and 26 of the 50 states. No, he has a strong hand because what will happen on New Year’s Day if no deal is reached is that taxes will be hiked about $4 for every $1 in spending cuts. More specifically, every taxpaying American will see his or her taxes rise, while defense spending will be rather dramatically cut. Do you think Obama could live with that?

    The only thing better for Obama would be to have the tax hikes and defense cuts kick in and be able to blame the GOP for their happening”

    • camsaure

      Yes, and we owe the likes of Graham, McCain, Bohner, McConnell and even our very own Rick Berg for setting this all up.

  • LastBestHope

    More confirmation that Obama wants to go over the cliff….it’s good politics for democrats, he believes.

    David Corn Monday:

    According to senior administration officials, Obama is not eager to go over the cliff, but he is willing. If no deal is reached by the end of the month, all the Bush tax cuts — for the rich and not rich — will evaporate. Obama would then demand in early January that the new Congress immediately pass legislation to reinstate the lower tax rates for the bottom 98 percent.

    And Greg Sargent shortly thereafter: “I have just confirmed that this is accurate — Obama is willing, albeit very reluctant, to go over the cliff.”

    By Monday evening, the mainstream reporters were sending the signal. Jake Tapper: “Senior White House official: ‘If GOP doesn’t agree to higher rates for the top 2 percent, we’ll go over the cliff and the American people will hold them responsible.'”

    Source: nationalreview.com

  • awfulorv

    It’s time all conservatives became aware that we are now on our own “Long March” and do not need appeasers, as Graham appears to be, to make our trudge more difficult for us. Next he’ll probably co-sponsor legislation which will take our radios, our one semi-unbiased TV channel, perhaps even SAB, and these keyboards, from us and thus, make our march all the more difficult. Soon you will need authorization to withdraw $40 from your ATM, or be told which auto you may purchase, or Health insurance to buy, or French Fry to be eaten. Perhaps you’ll be allowed to marry only if you wed someone who is deemed proper for you, and society. Believe me dear readers those Czars are not sitting around in the maids room at the White House playing Pinochle, they’re writing rules for you to adhere to, or else…

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