Say Anything Blog

UGH...Rob, between the POOP (Port Of Olympia Protest) and FYB (500 Year Betrayal) articles ...I swear you’re trying to give me a stroke from my rising blood pressure.

The really irritating thing to me, having read William Bradford’s history of Plimoth Plantation (as they called it), is that the Pilgrim relationship with Indians really ought to serve as a model.  Yes, there were conflicts, but the Pilgrims also concluded a treaty that required justice for their number who murdered an Indian, and they did their best to pay for the lands they lived on.  They also did a lot of trade with the Indians, benefiting both sides.

More or less, the HUGE problems between New Englanders (or U.S. citizens) and Indian nations were really fomented more or less as Britian and France sought to use Indian blood to fight their battles by proxy--thus conditioning American whites to see Indians (wrongly) as natural enemies, instead of as neighbors.

I don’t mind legitimate criticism of the tragedies of the past.  I do mind, however, when acts of good faith are airbrushed out of history by activists, and when men of good faith are thus demonized by people who aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit.

I mean really, what was the alternative?  Were we all supposed to just stay in Europe?  Were we supposed to se aside the whole continent between the Mississippi and the Rockies a Buffalo preserve?  Most of the deaths came from disease, which is awful, but it has no moral component.  There’s no way we could have stopped it because the theory of contagion was unknown at the time.

DAWN OF THE AMERICAN REFORMATION, AND END OF THE ERA OF THE UGLY AMERICAN
This Ron Paul Libertarian rebellion is an escalation and re-orientation of the American Cultural War, by the American People, against the rising governmental tyranny by Neoconservative Republicans and Leftist Democrats.
It is sweeping across America like a wildfire - ignited by the illegal and unnecessary invasion of Iraq. It raises many crucial questions, such as:
Where does the American Constitution give my government the right to sacrifice precious American wealth and blood, in interests of domestic and foreign lobbies?
Where does the American Constitution give my government the right to allow my nation to be invaded and permanently occupied by illegal aliens?
Where does the American Constitution give my government the right to support the sacrificial killing of children, by their own mothers?
Where does the American Constitution give my government the right to discriminate against traditional religious practices in public schools, universities, marriage institutions, armed forces, and governmental offices?
This creeping governmental tyranny, driven by perverse special interests, has now been going on for so many decades, like the illegal invasion, that the impending American Reformation is regarded with fear and loathing, by those who are to lose their illicit gains.
Like Gandhi, Ron Paul is drawing his intrepid volunteers from the full spectrum of humanity; and World is cheering him on to victory.

Wait a minute.  Thanksgiving...Pilgrims…

Wasn’t that four hundred years ago, not five?  As in, 1600’s?

Maybe they’re using a Native American calendar or something.

TW: england19--"Yeah, whitey, go back to your home country...”

Wow, I hope you used a proxy.  Some of these people here are so anti-Ron Paul they probably think you are a terrorist/stalking scum sucking pig.

I am a Paul supporter as well, Go Ron Paul!!

Ronpaul2008.com

Well, back to the subject.  I grew up around many Native Americans and I found their way of life cool.  The called me “The Ghost” because they did not think I would live long amongst them.  I had good times and bad times with them like any other relationship with other nationalities.  We shared photos of each others families and was very happy at times.  These experiences helped me dealing with other races of people when I moved to bigger cities.  I would say many of them believe the land was stole from them in cruel ways.  I would also say that the history of Thanks Giving has been distorted and commercialized to the point it is quite pathetic here in the United States.  In short, I can see how the school came to that understanding.  Indian taco anyone?  Emm yummm

Teacherdave, sheesh… what’s a mere 100 years when you’re shootin for sensation anyway, pff..with silly facts!
LOL..At least the acronym FYB is still appropriately fitting

Indian taco ... as in cannibalism?  Bear Tooth, thought you said you were friends with them? ..either way count me out on the tacos

Just think--if Columbus had fallen off the end of the flat earth, the natives of whatever this continent would now be called would still be living blissfull, idyllic lives.  They may occasionally wonder, as they look up, what those streaks (vapor trails) are in their sky. No Columbus? Then many of us that are on the net would be reading this stuff in what? Italian? Spanish? Portuguese? German? Norweigian?  Never underestimate the creativity of the PC.

Yup, it would be just plum idyllic with the temple in Tenochitlan (and that of the Pawnee) still going full bore with the obsidian blades, lifting the still-beating hearts out to whatever deity those Aztecs worshipped there, while the bodies were thrown down to a cannibalistic feast…

...sorry, there are real beauties to Native American culture, but to pretend that it was somehow “idyllic” for all is simply to ignore the history of those cultures.  They had war, crime, and all the things that diversity advocates somehow think originated with fishbelly white folks like myself.

And fry bread and Indian tacos?  Bear Tooth, you are aware that the wheat, lard, beef, cheese, lettuce, and even the skillet used to cook it are Old World products & inventions, right?  It’s a little bit more “Indian” than bratwurst with sauerkraut, but not much.

If you want true, historic Indian cuisine, try roasted or boiled bison, venison, wild rice, maize & squash, beans, pemmican, blueberries, maple syrup, planked salmon, and so on.  And you might be a wee bit less likely to get one of the major killers of Indians, a little disease called “diabetes”.

baba,

think a little

Besides, if as modern people today came and seen the pilgrams we would think even worse of them.  They would all be dead IMO.  We would use every thing at our disposal to destroy them if they did not move out of our way.

Or do you still dress and act like them?

Actually, reality is that most of the materials now used in a home were well known to the Pilgrims, and most of the cooking techniques we use today, as well as even many of the very recipes, were in use by the Pilgrims as well.  Moreover, a very significant minority of Americans subscribes to essentially the same religion as the Pilgrims, and all of us are under more or less the same law as they enjoyed.

So no, if they were around today, they’d be treated more or less like the Amish, not run out of town or killed, thankfully.

haha, I thought the same as you with the Amish, I guess it depends who would be the one going back in time that would make the call.  We could put it to the test soon as the Amish have bought large plots of land in North Dakota, they just are not here yet.

What do Thanksgiving have to do with Columbus?  Columbus have his own problem on his day.  Thanksgiving is the only holiday that our family separate being a none religious Asian and all.  I thanks the Pilgrims for planting the seed that became America.  For clearing the land of forests and Indians to build a great civilization so that I can have HDTV and the Internet.

Don’t know how celebrate became separate. Sorry.

Anh: You celebrate Thanksgiving, right? The Pilgrims that planted the seeds for this new country were Christians and they were thanking their God for the new land, the chance to worship Him as dictated by their conscience and for the chance to shape a new future. Now if you want to enjoy this time off every year, to have the good food, enjoy the family gatherings/togetherness and have a nice holiday fine, we are all free to do that as we choose; but just be clear about the fact you are not thereby celebrating Thanksgiving, which was/is an occasion to give thanks to God, not the Pilgrims or the Pilgrim seeds for this great country. Rob does not use this time of year to thank God, he is an atheist, but I am sure he enjoys the holiday although just not as a time of Thanksgiving, which would be contrary to his atheist beliefs.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Anh: I should add that, as I understand Rob, he does not resent the fact Christians observe this holiday, Christmas or Easter for religious purposes, that fact is neither here nor there to him.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Anh, I got your point the first spelling! I grew up around several Asian families, and Thanksgiving was a big day for them. They got it, having a lot to be thankful for.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Manifest Destiny:
“Advocates of Manifest Destiny believed that expansion was not necessarily good, but that it was obvious ("manifest") and certain ("destiny"). It was originally a political catch phrase or slogan used by Democrats in the 1845-1855 period, and rejected by Whigs and Republicans of that era.”

The phrase ”Manifest Destiny” was first used primarily by Jackson Democrats after 1845 to promote the annexation of much of what is now the Western United States including the Texas Annexation and the Mexican Cession from Mexico, and the Oregon Territory to which both Great Britain and the U.S. laid claim.

The term was partly revived in the 1890s, this time with Republican supporters, as a theoretical justification for U.S. expansion outside of North America. Opponents such as Abraham Lincoln wanted vertical modernization with greater complexity and specialization, instead of the horizontal expansion of simple farms. As Lincoln explained, he “did not believe in enlarging our field, but in keeping our fences where they are and cultivating our present possession, making it a garden, improving the morals and education of the people.”

Thus the Indians, a less civilized and modern people were forced to give way to this western expansion and whether we like everything about it now or not; I am reminded of the example of the Sperm Whale having a very small throat and the person explaining this fact asked the listener, ‘do you know why the Sperm Whale has such a small throat?’ The listener responded, ‘No, I don’t!” Wherein the person explaining this phenomena replied, ‘Because that is just the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it!’ The same with what happened in this country as mostly European immigrants took over this land from coast to coast, we can only respond to the critics, ‘Because that’s just the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it! So, stop bitching and accept facts!’

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.