Say Anything Blog

Putin and company----the old USSR---They’re back!!!!!

I bet there’s a little more than that at play; my mom & step-dad recently visited several of the former Yugoslav states, and the consistent thing noted was that one of the big reasons for the breakup was that all the tax money was staying within 20 miles of Belgrade, more or less.

Russian ambitions involved too?  Probably, but there’s an onion to peel here, and while Putin’s in it, he’s not the only layer.

The point of my first paragraph, since it’s not totally clear, is that Ossetia might have wanted to break away because they were being pillaged by the government of Georgia.

Russia just invaded a NATO country…

Ponder on that one for a few moments.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Most things with Putin involved don’t end well…

not good.

You eat the sandwich. The fact that it screams while you’re doing so only bothers you a little bit...

WunderKraut.com

North Ossetia is Russian, South Ossetia is half-and-half and has been mostly independent from Georgia since the early ‘90s. Recently Georgia moved to take more administrative control, re-escalating the conflict.
Most South Ossetians, apparently,(how it’s possible, I don’t know) have taken out Russian citizenship and now Russia is claiming to be acting in support of its nationals

I’m with Rob on this… it isn’t going to be good at all.

I sit corrected.

Georgia has applied for NATO membership but has not yet been accepted.  So NATO can do what they do best, and sit this one out.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Georgia is not one of the 26 member of the NATO alliance, but is part of the 50 members of the sister EAPC economic alliance.

A notable distinction.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

The US has been arming Georgia.

Yes, we have.

Georgia has 2,000 troops (Combat, mind you) in Iraq.  They’ve been maintaining that force level for several years, and have been training up to U. S. standards.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Georgia (used to have) 2,000 troops…

TBILISI, Georgia—Georgia’s president says the country is calling home its troops from Iraq amid heavy fighting in the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Georgia has 2,000 troops serving with the coalition forces in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor after the United States and Britain.

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

"blackwater"boob demonstrates his military expertise:

Georgia [has](used to have) 2,000 troops [(Combat, mind you) in Iraq.]…

Because he read this:

TBILISI, Georgia—Georgia’s president says the country is calling home its troops from Iraq amid heavy fighting in the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Georgia has 2,000 troops serving with the coalition forces in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor after the United States and Britain.

Because they can just step up onto the transporter and [insert sound effect] be deployed back home with all their equipment just like that!

And he accuses me of being a “Trekkie”!

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Hey Rob,

Can you invest in / recruit a better class of troll who actually know something about the matters on which they opine?

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

its about time that russia invaded, georgia has been raping south ossetia for too long… hopefully russia can liberate them from georgian tyranny

Let the localities go. Georgia is preening themselves for NAto. Fuck it, if I was from whatever subdivision of Georgia is flaring up, I would want my OWN county. I would want nothing to do with Russia.

Its probably just some poor, fucked up locals trying to play both sides against the middle, for all I’m concerned Russia and greater Georgia can both go piss off.

Looks like some folks have been using Pravda for something more than a bird cage liner, and drinking deep from the shallow still waters of Wiki.

For those interested in an overview, I commend Wired‘s Danger Room and Dunnigan’s Strategy Page.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Oh,

Here’s a relevant map:

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Ossetia does not want to be part of Georgia. How does Rodney Graves proposes to solve the problem?

------------------------------------------------------------

In Here
Ellinas

Oh geez, I see Rodney is all over that map also.

Rodney, honestly I got it from Tigerhawk, I am not trying to bogart giving you credit.

How did you determine that, ellinas?  Did they have a plebiscite?

Communism is evil

Russia is targeting civilians. They are doing the same war crimes they did in Afghanistan. See for yourself. There is gory video from news sources all over the European Press.  Putin acts like a Red in a blue suit.(Who is Russia’s leader now? All I hear about is Putin) They should build another wall around Russia’s border, and tell them to stay there until they become a real democracy. The UN needs to show they have some authority and must stop Russia from this unlawful brutal invasion of soveriegn European democracy.

Friday night 07/08/08 Georgian military forces started heavy artilery strikes that devastated the capital of South Ossetia. Massive strikes were aimed at city hospital and residential areas 1000 people were killed in the first day of attack. (now the number of civillians killed is more than 2000). Georgians also attacked peacekeepers’ base, sieged, killing even wounded soldiers that couldnt fight back. Russian 58th army moved out that day to rescue peacekeepers and protect civillians. By that very moment Russian military forces push Georgians back to the South Ossetian-Georgian border. That’s the truth.
What is important: CNN started talking about the confilct only after Russian army arrived to South Ossetia and presented everything as russian agression against small but proud Georgia.
Internet community, Americans, Europeans, everyone, please, don’t believe everything that your “independent” media says. It’s not that much independant. Of course there’s a lot of political interests of US and Russia in this conflict. But there also should be common sence! There are only 100000 South Ossetians, 2000 are already dead, 40000 are refugees that are moving to Russia. Georgia started that and Saakashvili has to blame. How many people did Saddam murder? Georgian president is purcuing that result.

lapen, all those civilians in Tskhinvali would have been alive on Saturday morning had Kokoyev’s “army” not intertwined itself among the civilian population. Common terrorist tactic. Disperse your"troops" among civilians, especially hospitals, schools and churches/mosques. Then when you are attacked you have lots of wounded and dead civilians for the press to ogle.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

P.S. Georgians have no rights for South Ossetia as it has never been part of Georgia. At all! South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been independent lands for thousands of years. They formally joined Georgian Soviet Republic during Soviet period. Georgia separated after the collapse of USSR and everything would be OK. BUT. It did it unfairly in some way. It didn’t have any reverendum in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and separated in its Soviet borders. Right after that there was first war with South Ossetia and long conflict with Abkhazia.  All we have is Georgian appetite for even smaller nations that want to be free and democratic.

P.S. Georgians have no rights for South Ossetia as it has never been part of Georgia. At all! South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been independent lands for thousands of years. They formally joined Georgian Soviet Republic during Soviet period. Georgia separated after the collapse of USSR and everything would be OK. BUT. It did it unfairly in some way. It didn’t have any reverendum in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and separated in its Soviet borders. Right after that there was first war with South Ossetia and long conflict with Abkhazia.  All we have is Georgian appetite for even smaller nations that want to be free and democratic.

P.S. Georgians have no rights for South Ossetia as it has never been part of Georgia. At all! South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been independent lands for thousands of years. They formally joined Georgian Soviet Republic during Soviet period. Georgia separated after the collapse of USSR and everything would be OK. BUT. It did it unfairly in some way. It didn’t have any reverendum in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and separated in its Soviet borders. Right after that there was first war with South Ossetia and long conflict with Abkhazia.  All we have is Georgian appetite for even smaller nations that want to be free and democratic.

(Sorry for posting one message 3 times) I know nothing about military tactics. However i believe that heavy artillery shots is not a case when you can be a terrorist and mix with hostages. Just killing those whom you “want” to join your country.

If Russia is intervening on the part of any Russian minorities there, then it may well be the result of a Soviet-era practice of wholesale importing and deporting ethnic populations to suit their own whim.  It’s been some time, but I think Hedrick Smith discussed this in his book THE RUSSIANS. 

As I recall, the intention was to break up homogeneous populations of vassal states, since the Russians have been trying to push their frontiers outward since the Mongols left. At the same time, they could rely on an ethnic Russian cadre to run things in each -stan.

That part of the former USSR was not my area of specialty, so I can’t discuss that area with much expertise, however, given old Soviet practices and the fact that Russia seems to still be under the sway of an old Soviet (Putin, by way of his appointed sock-puppet) my guess is that the old habits are still being applied in this current situation.

By failing to intervene on Georgia’s behalf, if even in the passive manner we outlasted the Soviet blockade of Berlin, or by imposing trade sanctions rather than resort to a shooting war, we will only encourage further Soviet adventurism. 

Putin has been bringing the old USSR back (outlawing religious groups and political rivals, clamping down on free speech, claiming the Arctic floor for their own exclusive oil rights, etc...) and the American MSM has been all but ignoring it. 

This incursion is just more of the same.

We are now on our prep time.

...for great justice

Interesting, what would Americans do, if, say, serbs would devastate the capital of Kosovo killing 2000 civilians and a couple of dozens of American peace keepers…
But America applies double standarts to Russia, claiming that Russia does not have the right to protect its own citizens! Is that fair?

Osetians live with Georgians in one country only because USSR made such border (nobody expected that Georgia will become independent). Most if not all of Osetians want to separate from Georgia. So it is democratic to give them such right, especially after Georgia tried to destroy their capital and villages with heavy artillery. Georgians unleashed the first war against Osetia in 1991-92 immediately after gaining independence from USSR. Only Russian peacekeepers managed to stop the bloodshed, and now all those tens of thousands of Osetian refugees flee to Russia, not Georgia.

Interesting, what would Americans do, if, say, serbs would devastate the capital of Kosovo killing 2000 civilians and a couple of dozens of American peace keepers…
But America applies double standarts to Russia, claiming that Russia does not have the right to protect its own citizens! Is that fair?

Osetians live with Georgians in one country only because USSR made such border (nobody expected that Georgia will become independent). Most if not all of Osetians want to separate from Georgia. So it is democratic to give them such right, especially after Georgia tried to destroy their capital and villages with heavy artillery. Georgians unleashed the first war against Osetia in 1991-92 immediately after gaining independence from USSR. Only Russian peacekeepers managed to stop the bloodshed, and now all those tens of thousands of Osetian refugees flee to Russia, not Georgia.

Interesting, what would Americans do, if, say, serbs would devastate the capital of Kosovo killing 2000 civilians and a couple of dozens of American peace keepers…
But America applies double standarts to Russia, claiming that Russia does not have the right to protect its own citizens! Is that fair?

Osetians live with Georgians in one country only because USSR made such border (nobody expected that Georgia will become independent). Most if not all of Osetians want to separate from Georgia. So it is democratic to give them such right, especially after Georgia tried to destroy their capital and villages with heavy artillery. Georgians unleashed the first war against Osetia in 1991-92 immediately after gaining independence from USSR. Only Russian peacekeepers managed to stop the bloodshed, and now all those tens of thousands of Osetian refugees flee to Russia, not Georgia.