Romney Lets His Conservative Mask Slip

For a while now I’ve been saying that Romney is no conservative, and anyone holding him up as the hope for the conservative movement against Obama in 2012 is fooling themselves. During his campaign for the Republican nomination in 2007/2008 Romney held himself up as a rock-ribbed conservative. The reality is that he’s a power-hungry politician. He was one of the first political leaders in America to institute what amounts to a nationalized health care system in Massachusetts, and his various positions on abortion have changed so often in timing so convenient for his political career as to leave one with the notion that Romney (not unlike Obama) will try to be whatever you want him to be.
And, now Romney is in non-campaign mode, his conservative mask is slipping even more as Soren Dayton at The Next Right points out. In an interview with The Hill, Romney criticizes conservatives for talking about deregulation too much:

In an interview with The Hill, Romney said, “We as Republicans misspeak when we say we don’t like regulation. We like modern, up-to-date dynamic regulation that is regularly reviewed, streamlined, modernized and effective.”

He comes out in favor of government-run economic stimulus:

Similarly, Romney is among the many Republicans who support a stimulus plan, but not in the form Congress passed in February.
“The best stimulus with the highest multiplier effect is one which gives money back to people rather than having government spend more, and so I think they got it wrong. It’s too much weighted toward spending, too little weighted toward tax reductions,” Romney said.

And he’s wobbly on illegal immigration:

Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail.
“We have a natural affinity with Hispanic-American voters, Asian-American voters,” he said.
Speaking in his Ritz-Carlton room with a pair of blue jeans on the dresser, Romney declined to criticize immigration hard-liners like former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), who backed Romney after he dropped his own presidential bid. Romney argued that all 2008 GOP candidates — including Tancredo — strongly favor legal immigration.

I think a lot of people like Romney because he’s a) got a lot of money and serious political support and b) has the looks and the smoothness that can give even Obama a run for his money.
But I ask: What good is winning elections if the people conservatives back to win them don’t end up governing like conservatives?
I was no McCain supporter in 2008, and I think I’d support Romney even less than I’d support McCain. Romney may at times come off as significantly better than McCain on many issues from the conservative perspective, but his opinions and stances seem so cynically calculated all the time that I’m left with the feeling that while I didn’t like what McCain had to say, I could usually count on the fact that he was at least telling the truth.

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  • http://Array docdave

    There has to be someone out there that is a lot more conservative than Romney. Last election campaign he was not on my list of prefered candidates.

  • Brent

    I like the commentary, Rob. I still vividly remember all the yahoos in this state running around supporting Romney (many who had previously supported Rudy). Many of these yahoos are big phonies themselves, so I guess they were just following the money, so to speak.

    I too would support McCain over Romney. Since they are both not conservative, the deciding factor would be sincerity… and I don’t know if Romney has any of that.

  • Hannitized

    Liqwid argues:

    Unions offer a fair chance, not a chance to circumvent fairness. If you want cronyism, go to a non-unionized industry.

    Completely backwards. Unions are all about cronyism. They’re all about who you know and how long you’ve known them.

    So let me get this straight. You worked for a union, and you wanted a promotion, but you didn’t get it because of the seniority rules, and you talked to the boss who said he would have hired you if he could, circumventing the fairness unions provide.

    And I have it backwards? Give me a break.

    Listen, I don’t know what industry you are in, but my father started out a labour rep for CSEA. He retired very high up in the union teaching others how to be field reps. I used to listen to him defend and protect low-skilled workers from being fired for stupid reason, such as political.

    I watched him balance having to defend people who should be fired. Overtime they lost their job. But better people who deserve to be fired go through a lengthy process, than people who don’t get cut right away, for the wrong reasons.

    And were talking non-teaching staff, like janitors. No school is going to go out of business for having a bad janitor.

    So unless you can explain your situation better, you basically sound like you got it backwards. I would like a better example.

    If that’s true, then it’s weird that so many people chose what you consider to be “unfairness”.

    Well, they do so because they are white collar workers. I technically don’t have a choice to work in a unionized consulting office. But I do have a choice to be a white collar worker over a blue collar worker.

    There are white collar union jobs, but I believe they are working for the actual Union, not a unionized job. Anyway…

    You’re not against choice, are you? It’s not too manly to be against another person’s ability to chose for himself.

    I don’t know what you are talking about. Where did I ever say I was?

    In fact I am arguing for choice. You are the one who said you have no choice. Why is that? Give me an example of an industry where every business is unionized.

    Haha! Now I’m laughing at your tic. You’re kinda cute in that metrosexual “but I’m a man!” way. It’s as if you’re conscious about how you appear to others, so you overcompensate by telling us how much of a man you are, how cool and manly you are because you’re a surfer, and that others need to “man up”. Hahaha. Thanks for the laughs, bro.

    WTF? Weren’t you the guy just crying because I picked on you? Now, you are calling me a metrosexual because why? Because I surf? Oh, because I use gel sometimes? Jezzus christ you are a joke bro.

    The argument about being manly for being a surfer was a direct challenge to Move, who claimed professionals who had soft hands, weren’t manly. But that is bullshit because many of them are more manly than any cowboy. So I hammered that point to piss him off….and it did.

    Fact of the matter….Cowboys are pussies compared to modern big wave surfers. I didn’t open that can of worms, I just responded. But, go ahead and keep trying to lift yourself up by tearing me down. I am big enough to take it….that is why I am here after all.

  • Hannitized

    Reagan was a man from another time and another place.

    I liked Reagan, some of his policies, not so much. But…then again, I am pro Military.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Romney has too many policies of the failed Left.

    People are leaving Michigan at a staggering rate. About 109,000 more people left Michigan last year than moved in. It is one of the worst rates in the nation, quadruple the loss of just eight years ago. The state loses a family every 12 minutes, and the families who are leaving — young, well-educated high-income earners — are the people the state desperately needs to rebuild.

    Since 2001, migration has cost Michigan 465,000 people, the equivalent of the combined populations of Grand Rapids, Warren and Sterling Heights — the state’s second-, third- and fourth-largest cities.

    “Hannitized” offers nothing, Nobody is going to get anything done or help the country by governing like a conservative.

    Wake up.

    That’s just useless prattle from someone who endorses the failed ideas of Michigan and Detroit. You don’t get to say “wake up”, for you are one who is in a deep slumber.

  • http://www.pal2pal.com/BLOGEE Pal2Pal

    I’m trying to figure out how your quotes prove your point. For instance:

    Similarly, Romney is among the many Republicans who support a stimulus plan, but not in the form Congress passed in February.

    “The best stimulus with the highest multiplier effect is one which gives money back to people rather than having government spend more, and so I think they got it wrong. It’s too much weighted toward spending, too little weighted toward tax reductions,” Romney said.

    This, to me, sounds exactly right. Why do you think this proves the exact opposite? Stimulus comes from the people, not the government, spending their own money on goods and services from the private sector. That is exactly what Romney is saying. This statement is a call for tax reductions to put the money where it belongs, back in the pockets of Americans, not the inefficient government’s coffers. Pretty smart and fiscally conservative speaking, if you ask me.

    Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail.

    “We have a natural affinity with Hispanic-American voters, Asian-American voters,” he said.

    Speaking in his Ritz-Carlton room with a pair of blue jeans on the dresser, Romney declined to criticize immigration hard-liners like former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), who backed Romney after he dropped his own presidential bid. Romney argued that all 2008 GOP candidates — including Tancredo — strongly favor legal immigration.

    Are you saying he should criticize immigration hard-liners, most of whom are conservative? I don’t get your complaint on this quote either. I thought we all favored LEGAL immigration and that it is the illegals that we want to be dealt with. What is your beef here? What in this statement isn’t part of the conservative line?

    There may be legitimate complaints about Romney, but neither of these quotes comes close.

    Frankly, I don’t give a damn about the “conservative movement,” as you phrase it. I’m far more interested in getting Democrats out of power and getting smaller government, less taxes, business-minded Republicans back in power. All I hear is self-proclaimed conservatives complaining. They complain about everyone, with some kind of pie in the sky perfection the goal. No one is perfect and no two individuals are affected in the exact same way by a crisis. This quest for conservative purity is as moonbat as the nutter left. And when do conservatives ever advance a solution to the things they are constantly ragging about? Never as far as I can tell. Who don’t they try to destroy as soon as it looks like they are getting any public traction. Romney, Palin, Gingrich, Rush, McCain, any number of Republican Congresscritters, writers, pundits, the list goes on and on. No one, as far as I can tell, is ever conservative enough, pure enough.

    What we need is practical people with good common sense who understand capitalism and understand that life is complicated and has to have many solutions and that ALL ideas need to be on the table. That half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, something conservatives are going to have to accept or forever remain on the outside. We may not like every position as we stand with our noses pressed against the window looking in, but believe me, being on the outside with no power at all is never better than working from the inside, where sometimes you may have to compromise on the purity front, but still have a chance to get something done.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Reagan was a man from another time and another place.

    I love it when the trolls try to wax philosophical! “Another place”? Reagan was from the U.S.of A. What “other place” are you babbling about?

    And even though he was from “another time”, you have said nothing that would indicate that his principles would not work just as well today…once we get the deadwood currently in office out of the way!

  • robert108

    Fairness is when you get what you earn; not when you get something somebody else has earned.

  • http://toddyarling.tumblr.com/ todd yarling

    I agree. I am so glad to hear that others seriously doubt Romney’s conservative cred. I was appalled when so many prominent ‘conservatives’ were pushing a guy with his own socialist health plan named after him! To think he won a straw poll at CPAC is pretty scary, too. Who are these so called conservatives, anyways?

    I just do not believe him on abortion and ‘gay rights’. He may be sincere, but the trust just isn’t there for some reason.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Hannitized” excuses his tyranny with a flicker, Cry me a river.

    So much for you caring about the “blue collar worker”.

    You’re a phony.

    I worked for a surgical instruments company when I was 22. And the a manager wanted me to work for him and told me to get more instrumentation experience, so I did, I worked as an instrument managements systems rep, learning all instrumentation sets and how each instrument is used. Company policy was that they promote within, FIRST.

    This mind you, was a non-unionized company.

    When the job opening came up, my boss said I would be a great fit and would recommend me and the other manager asked me to apply. You know who got the job? The shoe salesman whose daddy did consulting work for the company.

    So freedom my ass. Freedom to give the good paying jobs to those who are connected, not qualified. it happens in both cases.

    Not the same thing at all. It is the employer’s right to hire who he wants. It is his money and company, something you don’t seem to get. It’s about personal property rights in business, something you don’t seem to get.

    You want freedom go find yourself some freakin opportunity.

    Unions squashed it twice, something you don’t seem to get. Opportunity does not lie in states where one cannot tell the unions to go pound salt, something you don’t seem to get (but tons of others get it as they are moving out of those states!). Your ideas about forced union shops do not work and the real world results are showing that they do not work, something you don’t seem to get.

    Now I work for a small business, non union. But I have experience that speaks for themselves. Go elevate yourself Likwid, you ARE free, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

    You’re being disingenuous. You heard a clear-cut case of how the automotive unions in Detroit prevent people from rising to the top. In turn, you blame the messenger.

    And you still wonder why states like Michigan and cities like Detroit are failing? People like me are moving the hell out. You know why? Because we’re still free, which is something that you want to take away.

    Look at you, playing the victim. Pussy. The union gave rules and fairness that you can either sign up for or leave. There are other jobs out there, go find them.

    Wow. Seriously? There are other jobs out there in Michigan and Detroit? I tell you what, they’re quickly disappearing. People are leaving in droves because of union rules and “fairness”.

    Now here’s where you call me a “pussy” in an attempt at hiding the fact that your ideas are failing miserably.

    But for people who like the fairness and justice of having a process that is not circumvented by people who are “buddies”….they have unions…sorry, you do not have my sympathy.

    Thanks for the admittance that you do not like freedom. As if you have any say about a company that you do not own. You’ve got a big head there.

    In any regard, the economic situation of Michigan and Detroit is “fairness and justice”? I’d call it poverty and unemployment.

    I think you are a person who lacks personal responsibility. I am a man, friend. I understand that there are unions and there are private sector jobs. You don’t like unions, boo-fuciking-hoo. Go find a private sector job.

    You’ve done nothing but insult me and piss all over freedom. That doesn’t make you a “man”. You’ve been little more than a hypocritical supporter of government tyranny in this thread.

    You favor cronyism over fairness. NOT CONVINCING.

    No, I do not support unions. You’re projecting again.

    I prefer an opportunity for fairness…

    No, you don’t. You support cronyism over fairness.

    I made my life, you made yours. Own it, dont be a baby victim. You supposed conservative.

    Hell, I am more of a conservative than you are.

    That’s rich. When people actually have the nerve to bring to light what your favored policies bring, you blame them before claiming as your own what others hold.

    Now here’s where you go on about how rich you are, how you don’t belong to a union but approve of others having no choice, and about how much you like the “poor” and “blue collar workers” while condescending shitting all over them. You’re a hypocrite all the way around, “Hannitized”.

  • Bat One

    Nobody is going to get anything done or help the country by governing like a conservative.

    A statement of truly weapons-grade stupidity!

    You are one of those who have yet to cite any past example domestic or foreign, when massive Keynesian federal deficits such Obama proposes have provided the sort of economic stimulus that proponents and supports have insisted will occur.

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus Last Best Hope

    it’s not fair but the Mormon thing makes him unelectable…it’s a stupid prejudice based on some old history but the fact is there are likely many millions who won’t listen to Mitt based on his religion alone. After that he has so many doubters on the right and some real haters on the left that I don’t see Mitt as electable. That said, I’d vote for him. He has personal honor, is as smart as they get, is pro military, knows the business world like few others, can speak fluent english without a teleprompter (funny how Obama’s use of the teleprompter is a now a metaphor for a vacuous mind)

    Mitt would be a great POTUS but it’s not in the cards IMO

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Hannitized”, the guy who uses another’s name said, Likwid offers info to create a cause and effect environment by linking to an article that doesn’t have a cause and effect argument.

    HILARIOUS!

    Some things are just obvious.

    Why is Detroit doing so bad? Why does Detroit not have a single supermarket (beyond gas station ghetto markets and corner stores) in the entire city? Why is Detroit such a stinking and shrinking shithole? Why does Detroit and Michigan have such high taxes that just about every business runs out of the city and state? Why does Detroit and Michigan have such sky-high unemployment? Why has Michigan been in a seven year recession?

    Take a big guess.

    Keep laughing. Your victims are rapidly becoming poor and dying early deaths.

    Offering lies is not offering “something” Likwid.

    Wake up.

    You’re a liar who offers nothing.

    I woke up long ago, when I was still a kid, and saw the shysters and hucksters that people like you are. You sell misery and hopelessness, and I and others here can see your big government selling scams for what they are.

    That must really bother you.

    Now you can go back to talking about yourself, just like the guy you voted in as President. It is something I’ve noticed about you of late – that you’re a braggart name-dropper who talks himself up a lot. There’s a line where one can talk about oneself to engender some personality to others and whatnot. You long ago passed that line.

  • Bat One

    Reagan was a man from another time and another place.

    Not nearly so much as John Maynard Keynes.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    They were “laizier” than you were? I don’t think you meant that, but if you both were lazy then neither of you should get one. ;^)

    Haha! Good catch there.

    If you are going to tell me that they were lazy, but kept their job, i don’t know about that.

    There are tons of lazy union members. Hell, they’re even known for it!

    And guess what? In the free market, they often hire people who’s daddy is connected, not who is qualified. So there is no way to argue that unfairness does not exist in the Free market.

    Never would. The world is often unfair.

    That’s why I prefer freedom and capitalism. It levels things out towards fairness much better than any other way of doing things. Yeah, someone’s father may give his son or daughter a connection or head’s up at a company. So what?

    In any job, promoting someone in 15 days over people who have been proving themselves for years would be unfair. I agree with them there.

    Yeah, but that’s the thing – it’s not your call. Neither should it be the call of the absentee union who didn’t know what was going on or the call of the toked up joke of a union foreman.

    Promoting someone in 15 days shows favoritism not based on performance over a long period. That is crazy. IMHO.

    I don’t know why they would have favored me. I knew nobody at the place. The only thing I showed them was a couple of weeks of good work and (this was probably the difference) a cheery attitude.

    Uhh…i think you are mistaken. Where did I argue that?

    Hmmm…my mistake. Sorry for assuming otherwise. It looked to be the way you were arguing, but my mistake.

    I call anyone who promotes people unfairly due to a personal relationship, or for some political reason that skips the concept of meritocracy, cronyism.

    And therein lies the rub. You had assumed that they skipped over the concept of meritocracy.

    I can’t say much about surfing other than I’ve always admired it. It looks like fun and is something I would like to try one day. Maybe one day when I visit an ocean other than the Atlantic seaboard where the waves are a bit puny for surfing… Until then, I’ll just continue tumbling down hillsides on snowboards on those occasions when I do such a thing. I’ve only ever surfed on snow.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Eh…anyone can look metro when they clean up…if they have style.

    Hah. I think it’s just your look. You can’t really help it. In any regard, if the ladies like it, no harm no foul.

    I’m not going to reciprocate with a face pic. But I do have these handstand ones!

    Discussion of Romney to unions to surfing to handstands. I’d call that an improvement.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    And “Hannitized”? I never “worked for a union”. I worked for the company. Big difference there. The unions were just leeching. In some regards, you’re right, I did work for the unions (two different ones), but all in all they were just along for the ride like annoying and unwanted backseat drivers.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    I worked for a surgical instruments company when I was 22.

    Hold the phone! C’mon L’il Kahuna, if you were working for a surgical instrument company at 22, when was it that you served in the military?

    You know, serving your country?

  • Hannitized

    Don’t take too much offense, but you look like one. It’s no biggie. I don’t really care. I just mentioned it because the constant “man up” comments read as something defensive.

    Eh…anyone can look metro when they clean up…if they have style. I talk about that with chickies all the time. It’s not the look, it’s the attitude.

    Most of the time…i am wearing boardies and beaching it…sometimes I step out with some friends (ladies who are freinds) and don’t dress like an idiot…..girls do like it.

    Non-metro-look….maybe?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Yet the article YOU linked as a source said was a mystery. Now, you were saying?

    I linked the article to show how many people have poured out of the state of Michigan in the last eight years.

    Oh, that’s right. You care about the poor. That is why you stand against blue collar workers getting paid fair wage, right? That is why you are anti-union, right?

    You’re making assumptions about my motives with even more assumptions about your intents that are not in evidence.

    You want a “fair wage” as you define it? Go to Detroit. Good luck even finding a job. You want a union? Good for you. Good luck finding one.

    Now can I tell the union to bugger off? Not in Michigan. You know who stood against me making a fair wage? The unions in the automotive industries in the Detroit area. Twice! Two different factories. In one, we made brakes for GM. In another, we made car doors for Chrysler. In both plants, I was personally stifled from rising to the top because of silly union rules. With the company that made brakes for GM, I personally knew the owner of the site and we had had many a discussion about the bloodsucking union and how he would have liked to hire me on my own volition, but since Michigan isn’t a Right to Work state, he couldn’t. At the place that made car doors for Chrysler, the union lodged a complaint because they promoted me ahead of those with “seniority”.

    You don’t care about the “blue-collar worker”. No, you don’t. Don’t feed me that line of shit. You look down upon us and you condescend. Seriously “Hannitized”? Go blow it out of your sanctimonious ass. Mind your own God Damn business. You don’t help me. You only endorse policies that keep the “blue collar worker” like me down.

    You know what I like, Mr. Smarty-Pants With a Nicked Name? I like freedom and the ability to make my own way in this life. I also like it when people don’t erroneously assume my intentions. Can you dig?

    Why don’t you accept the fact that automakers in America made bad marketing decisions and failed to make cars economically, like Toyota?

    I prefer to look at the whole picture rather than only part of the fact.

    Because that requires intellectual honesty, which you don’t have.

    You’re just a sanctimonious jackass all of the way around, aren’t you?

    So i shove it down your throat sideways, and I don’t give a shit about what you think, because you will never meet any of us in the middle anyway, so quit the pretense, it’s bullshit.

    There’s no pretense there. There was no false appearance. I said that you talk about yourself and I stand by those statements I made in that regard. Learn what the word means.

    And you’re right. We’ll never meet halfway. I want freedom. You want government tyranny. There’s no negotiation between the two.

    Your feigning concern for brotherly love is a sham.

    The more you guys talk shit, the more crap I throw in your face. Pick your approach you big phony.

    There you go again misusing the language again.

    There’s no “phony” “brotherly love” for you. You want to know how I feel about you? Fuck off and die.

    Are we clear now?

  • carrick

    Hannitized:

    Conservatism is dead….I told you this.

    Is this because nearly 40% of the populace identify themselves as conservative, compared to around 20% considering themselves liberal?

    Or some other reason.

    In the meantime, I wasn’t aware that Romney had a “conservative mask”.

  • Hannitized

    That’s why I prefer freedom and capitalism. It levels things out towards fairness much better than any other way of doing things. Yeah, someone’s father may give his son or daughter a connection or head’s up at a company. So what?

    In my situation, I had been working in a surgical instruments company as a communications clerk for two years. The western region sales manager said he wanted me to work for him after listening to me talk up a female-coworker. He told me to move within the company to learn instrumentation sets, and instruments better. So I did. I was an IMS (Instrument Management Systems) rep for a year, going on-site to hospitals and standing side by side with doctors as they used the instruments, and watched too many videos of surgical procedures.

    Then, when the opening came, they hired a former shoe salesmen, who just graduated because his dad was hired by the company I worked for as a consultant, and asked that his son be hired as a favor. I hated that kid, cuz he was cool and also a surfer…his happy ass irritated me. So I saw him out in the water one day, and I knew he wasn’t gong to be very good, so I paddled over to vibe him….when I was paddling over, I though, what did this guy ever do to me? Why would I vibe him?

    So I decided to be nice, we became great friends. He ended up being the college roommate of my best friend from high-school at UOP. Small world. Later, when he was promoted…he recommended me for his spot. Again, they gave it to someone else.

    So it was never a dad hiring their child. It was a German corporation AESCULAP that had a horrible policy of being unfair and breaking their own rules. I won’t bring race into it, although it could have been a factor.

    I could come up with a lot of reasons why it was “unfair”….but….i decided that they must have had a reason. So I just took control of my life from there and started my own business. From there…i went into IT.

    I may have talked big and all….but truth be told. I think we all have choices in life and you either step up and get lucky or step up and get the shaft. Nothing is fair in life, but unions can be a good thing and often ensure the little guy can survive.

  • Hannitized

    BTW…snowboarding is as close to surfing as I have experienced…..great, great board sport.

    I miss it.

  • Hannitized

    I was personally stifled from rising to the top because of silly union rules. With the company that made brakes for GM, I personally knew the owner of the site and we had had many a discussion about the bloodsucking union and how he would have liked to hire me on my own volition, but since Michigan isn’t a Right to Work state, he couldn’t.

    Cry me a river. I worked for a surgical instruments company when I was 22. And the a manager wanted me to work for him and told me to get more instrumentation experience, so I did, I worked as an instrument managements systems rep, learning all instrumentation sets and how each instrument is used. Company policy was that they promote within, FIRST.

    This mind you, was a non-unionized company.

    When the job opening came up, my boss said I would be a great fit and would recommend me and the other manager asked me to apply. You know who got the job? The shoe salesman whose daddy did consulting work for the company.

    So freedom my ass. Freedom to give the good paying jobs to those who are connected, not qualified. it happens in both cases.

    You want freedom go find yourself some freakin opportunity.

    After that experience I started my own business…two of them. Made them successful and sold them….all while in school. Then I went into IT.

    Now I work for a small business, non union. But I have experience that speaks for themselves. Go elevate yourself Likwid, you ARE free, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

    Don’t feed me that line of shit. You look down upon us and you condescend. Seriously “Hannitized”? Go blow it out of your sanctimonious ass. Mind your own God Damn business. You don’t help me. You only endorse policies that keep the “blue collar worker” like me down.

    Look at you, playing the victim. Pussy. The union gave rules and fairness that you can either sign up for or leave. There are other jobs out there, go find them.

    But for people who like the fairness and justice of having a process that is not circumvented by people who are “buddies”….they have unions…sorry, you do not have my sympathy.

    I prefer to look at the whole picture rather than only part of the fact.

    Because that requires intellectual honesty, which you don’t have.

    You’re just a sanctimonious jackass all of the way around, aren’t you?

    I think you are a person who lacks personal responsibility. I am a man, friend. I understand that there are unions and there are private sector jobs. You don’t like unions, boo-fuciking-hoo. Go find a private sector job.

    You favor cronyism over fairness. NOT CONVINCING.

    I prefer an opportunity for fairness, but I personally choose to exercise my talent in the free market and refuse to take shit from any employer. I learned what life is like in the workplace and made adjustments appropriately.

    I made my life, you made yours. Own it, dont be a baby victim. You supposed conservative.

    Hell, I am more of a conservative than you are.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/homosexuality_is_wrong_-_a_compendium move_zig

    Hell, I am the only one who is free. I live freedom. I breathe it,

    You live the freedom that others have paid for.

    Not you.

    You are a freeloader and worse yet, so ready to toss aside the freedom of others to Keep and Bear Arms, and if you are the Leftist you seem to be, a raft of other freedoms besides.

    It’s one thing to acknowledge the sacrifice of others, it’s another to spit on it and then work to destroy it.

    “For those who have fought for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected will never know.”

  • Hannitized

    No dude. Not at all. I got a promotion and the union filed a complaint because I didn’t have seniority over those who were lazier.

    They were “laizier” than you were? I don’t think you meant that, but if you both were lazy then neither of you should get one. ;^)

    If you are going to tell me that they were lazy, but kept their job, i don’t know about that. If someone is lazy, and they have a track record of non-performance, they are not ineligible for promotion…regardless of seniority.

    And guess what? In the free market, they often hire people who’s daddy is connected, not who is qualified. So there is no way to argue that unfairness does not exist in the Free market.

    i have seen a lot shit happen in the free market that would never happen in the union. Nothing is perfect….except UUNET…once upona time.

    And yes, you have it backwards. Your idea of “fairness” promotes the lazy and the dumb over the hard working and smart. What you consider “fairness” is just backwards thinking.

    Yeah, oK. And again in the fair market, people can cheat, lie and steal and promote those who kiss ass over those who perform and have integrity. I used to work for WorldCom and those bastards were a bunch of political, non performance oriented phonies. I finally was able to circumvent the system, when they bought MCI and jump to UUNET. UUNET was ethical, promoted for hard work and rewarded those who deserved it. So…..agian. It comes down to controlling your own destiny I think. You can either play along, or make your own path in life. Maybe Michigan or Detroit doesn’t have a lot of other opportunities…i don’t know. But I lived where I could choose union, or do my own thing. I did my own thing, including start my own janky business. It was small, and a really kooky line of work, but it was fun and nobody could control how much I made, or limit me.

    and they promoted me on something like day 15. The union rules stated that I couldn’t even be considered until the 90 day “probation” bullshit was over and until everybody who got hired before me was promoted. The shop didn’t want to do that though and just promoted me, at which point the crybaby union lodged a complaint

    In any job, promoting someone in 15 days over people who have been proving themselves for years would be unfair. I agree with them there.

    If you were working for a long period or a year and you had a better track record, I would agree with you, if it was true the other guys were “lazier”. Promoting someone in 15 days shows favoritism not based on performance over a long period. That is crazy. IMHO.

    This whole conversation. You’ve been arguing against the choice to not join a union. You’ve been arguing against the choice of a company and an individual coming to their own agreements. Remember? You called that “cronyism” and mocked it before casting aspirations on my motives.

    Uhh…i think you are mistaken. Where did I argue that? I call anyone who promotes people unfairly due to a personal relationship, or for some political reason that skips the concept of meritocracy, cronyism.

    Fact of the matter….Cowboys are pussies compared to modern big wave surfers.

    Hahaha! If you say so. I don’t think they compare much and from my view, they’re both pretty kick-ass activities in their own rights. I don’t know why you and others here would argue about such a thing. It looks like it bothers you both. That’s just crazy.

    I have got nothing against Cowboys. I think bull-riding is some crazy shit. It was Move who tried to beat others down by lifting up the Cowboy…so I just smashed some stuff in his face.

    I truly think surfing a 60ft wave is seriously more ballsy than riding a bull. Hell brother, I draw the limit at 20ft faces, and that crap makes me want to cry when it is going to break on my head. Then, look at Teahupoo..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iYC4Nzo4qQ

    Breaking on 6ft of razor sharp reef….you fall….you stand a 70% of death.

    But yeah….its stupid to argue.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Hannitized” tries to determine worth over the Internet, You worked for a union, and you wanted a promotion, but you didn’t get it because of the seniority rules, and you talked to the boss who said he would have hired you if he could, circumventing the fairness unions provide.

    And I have it backwards? Give me a break.

    No dude. Not at all. I got a promotion and the union filed a complaint because I didn’t have seniority over those who were lazier.

    And yes, you have it backwards. Your idea of “fairness” promotes the lazy and the dumb over the hard working and smart. What you consider “fairness” is just backwards thinking.

    So unless you can explain your situation better, you basically sound like you got it backwards. I would like a better example.

    Whatever. Can’t make it any more plain. We made car doors for Chrysler (so you can forget any claims of cronyism as I didn’t know anybody at this plant) and they promoted me on something like day 15. The union rules stated that I couldn’t even be considered until the 90 day “probation” bullshit was over and until everybody who got hired before me was promoted. The shop didn’t want to do that though and just promoted me, at which point the crybaby union lodged a complaint.

    If you’re truly for freedom and the ability to chose, you’d be against the union actions there.

    Well, they do so because they are white collar workers.

    No, they’re not. So-called “blue collar” workers are choosing not to join unions.

    I don’t know what you are talking about. Where did I ever say I was?

    This whole conversation. You’ve been arguing against the choice to not join a union. You’ve been arguing against the choice of a company and an individual coming to their own agreements. Remember? You called that “cronyism” and mocked it before casting aspirations on my motives.

    WTF? Weren’t you the guy just crying because I picked on you?

    No, I had simply said that you were doing nothing but insulting me and pissing all over freedom. Since then, we’ve been having something of a better conversation, so I wouldn’t say that now.

    Now, you are calling me a metrosexual because why? Because I surf? Oh, because I use gel sometimes? Jezzus christ you are a joke bro.

    Don’t take too much offense, but you look like one. It’s no biggie. I don’t really care. I just mentioned it because the constant “man up” comments read as something defensive.

    Fact of the matter….Cowboys are pussies compared to modern big wave surfers.

    Hahaha! If you say so. I don’t think they compare much and from my view, they’re both pretty kick-ass activities in their own rights. I don’t know why you and others here would argue about such a thing. It looks like it bothers you both. That’s just crazy.

  • Hannitized

    Discussion of Romney to unions to surfing to handstands. I’d call that an improvement.

    HAHA!

    Damn..that is an inverted handstand? Crazy shit.

    Good luck in your next venture by the way.

    Im off to go plink some mongoose maybe. Or go for a hike.

  • http://www.worldnet-long-distance.com/ worldnet

    I always had my reservations on Romney as well. Think back to the gay marriage fiasco in his state and i heard he had more of the gay marriage advocates in his office than pro family advocates.

    I think the base is going to go for a strong conservative in 2012, the question is who? At least we have some good options now compared to 2008.

  • patriot

    I don’t get it:

    Romney is right when he says we ‘misspeak’ when he says we speak about ‘not liking regulation’ then he goes on to explain why. The opposition takes those words and with the media’s help twists it into Republicans don’t like ANY regulation. This is false, Republicans favor Regualation that is “We like modern, up-to-date dynamic regulation that is regularly reviewed, streamlined, modernized and effective.” = direct quote from Romney.

    Your phrase “Romney likes Government Run Stimulus” – Romney actually says = he favors tax cuts !! Knock me over with a feather, republicans favor tax cuts. Nothing wrong there. Romney’s quote reprinted from above “…one which gives money back to people rather than having government spend more, and so I think they got it wrong. It’s too much weighted toward spending, too little weighted toward tax reductions…”

    Lastly:
    Romney declines to crticize immigration hard liners, nor does he disagree with them. Romney is right, we do need to pass immigration reform, he doesn’t say he’d veto one written by Tancredo, YOU (Rob) jump to that conclusion. Romney simply voices the obvious, I am strongly against McCain’s version of “comprehensive” immigration reform but like Romney I welcome the writing of a bill, just one that contains a lot more enforcement than McCain’s bill ever has.

    In summary, Rob you have an irrational hatred of Romney. Its showing. There was nothing in the 3 statements you highlighted that was anti-conservative – 1.) Republicans do favor Regulation 2.) Our version of Government stimulus is Tax Cuts, and 3.) We’d all like some immigration reform.

    I’m conservative and I find no offense in his words. I do take great offense at the following paragraph though:

    I think a lot of people like Romney because he’s a) got a lot of money and serious political support and b) has the looks and the smoothness that can give even Obama a run for his money.

    Pure silliness, you need to sharpen your business mind buddy. Do you forget, Romney has run businesses, successfully, turned them around. He has a smart business mind. I find that attractive, very attractive in a potential President. It was some of the experience in Obama that offended me the most. You may have a secret attraction to Romney’s looks and smoothness but it does nothing for me, in fact I don’t really see it. I find him to be a family man, whose 5 sons aren’t really doing anything and have yet to prove themselves. Mitt took a wealthy family name and made more of it by working hard and using the smarts god and a good education gave him.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Nobody is going to get anything done or help the country by governing like a conservative.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

  • Hannitized

    Haha. I love it. Likwid offers info to create a cause and effect environment by linking to an article that doesn’t have a cause and effect argument.

    HILARIOUS!

    Michigan’s exodus is one of the state’s best known but least understood problems.

    Offering lies is not offering “something” Likwid.

    Wake up.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Cowboys are pussies compared to modern big wave surfers. I didn’t open that can of worms,

    Er, yes you did! The first twit to mention surfers in that thread was…you.

    (I’m sure your ADD is keeping you from remembering back that far!) So the link is here:

    The new “Cowboy” is today board riders and surfers.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Hannitized” – Union jobs target certain types of industries. You have the freedom to look into other types of industries and develop different skill sets.

    Sure do. I, along with many others, have moved the hell out of Michigan and will not be going back.

    You’re right. We have that freedom to vote with our feet and move away from your kind of silly policies. Right now. How long will we keep that freedom as we move more and more away from federalism?

    Unions offer a fair chance, not a chance to circumvent fairness. If you want cronyism, go to a non-unionized industry.

    Completely backwards. Unions are all about cronyism. They’re all about who you know and how long you’ve known them.

    No thanks to your cronyism. I much rather prefer freedom, which you seem to detest for some reason.

    And guess what? Unfariness exists their in a much greater capacity. Man up.

    If that’s true, then it’s weird that so many people chose what you consider to be “unfairness”.

    You’re not against choice, are you? It’s not too manly to be against another person’s ability to chose for himself.

    WTF? I don’t want you to move, now?

    No, that’s not what I said at all. I said, “Because we’re still free, which is something that you want to take away.”, meaning, you want to make the forced unionism across the board across the country.

    Man up.

    You keep on saying that. Is it a tic or something?

    WHAT? Look at the thread brother. You attacked me first. Saying I offer nothing but prattle.

    That’s what it was. Let’s look at it again, shall we?

    Nobody is going to get anything done or help the country by governing like a conservative.

    Wake up.

    Yep. “Prattle” is a good word for that tripe. Good call.

    I fired back. Man up.

    Haha! Now I’m laughing at your tic. You’re kinda cute in that metrosexual “but I’m a man!” way. It’s as if you’re conscious about how you appear to others, so you overcompensate by telling us how much of a man you are, how cool and manly you are because you’re a surfer, and that others need to “man up”. Hahaha. Thanks for the laughs, bro.

    And by the way, i can tone this down if you would like to return to civil discourse.

    Return? Hmmm…

    If you say so…

    Personally, I don’t mind a little bit of saltiness as I’m that way myself, but it would be nice if we could focus more of the discussion to ideas.

    Lastly I dont support freedom? Hell, I am the only one who is free. I live freedom. I breathe it, but I see a place for unions, you want to take it away from people who need it.

    No, I don’t want to take away the right to organize. I strongly advocate for right and freedom of association. What that means is that one can join a union or, if one so chooses, one can chose not to associate with a union. I’m all about being pro-choice.

  • jimmypop

    What good is winning elections if the people conservatives back to win them don’t end up governing like conservatives?

    correct. additionally, these republicans think the sheeppeople will vote like they always have… ‘hes got an ‘r’ after his name and hes not as bad as the other guy. so you have to vote for him. otherwise youre just throwing away your vote!!’ i argue i would have thrown away my vote on mac.

    elections are not won by 10% they are won by 2-3%. and the 2-3% walked away from liberal mac. i just hope the republicans wake up next time. and im sure they wont.

  • Hannitized

    Unions squashed it twice, something you don’t seem to get. Opportunity does not lie in states where one cannot tell the unions to go pound salt, something you don’t seem to get (but tons of others get it as they are moving out of those states!). Your ideas about forced union shops do not work and the real world results are showing that they do not work, something you don’t seem to get.

    No, I get it. i live in a union state Liqwid. Do you know anything about Hawaii? I work in a union sate, but i don’t need a union job. I have a skill set that enables me to take care of myself outside of unions. You are a free man, you could do the same thing.

    Union jobs target certain types of industries. You have the freedom to look into other types of industries and develop different skill sets.

    Unions offer a fair chance, not a chance to circumvent fairness. If you want cronyism, go to a non-unionized industry. And guess what? Unfariness exists their in a much greater capacity. Man up.

    And you still wonder why states like Michigan and cities like Detroit are failing? People like me are moving the hell out. You know why? Because we’re still free, which is something that you want to take away.

    WTF? I don’t want you to move, now? Got news for you pal. I left California because people were coming from all over the country to work. So I chose quality of life and lifted myself up by my bootstraps.

    Man up.

    You’ve done nothing but insult me and piss all over freedom. That doesn’t make you a “man”. You’ve been little more than a hypocritical supporter of government tyranny in this thread.

    WHAT? Look at the thread brother. You attacked me first. Saying I offer nothing but prattle. Then you lecture me about being into myself and all that. I fired back. Man up.

    And by the way, i can tone this down if you would like to return to civil discourse. Either way, I am not going to cry about it.

    Lastly I dont support freedom? Hell, I am the only one who is free. I live freedom. I breathe it, but I see a place for unions, you want to take it away from people who need it.

  • Hannitized

    Some things are just obvious.

    Yet the article YOU linked as a source said was a mystery. Now, you were saying?

    Keep laughing. Your victims are rapidly becoming poor and dying early deaths.

    Oh, that’s right. You care about the poor. That is why you stand against blue collar workers getting paid fair wage, right? That is why you are anti-union, right?

    Why don’t you accept the fact that automakers in America made bad marketing decisions and failed to make cars economically, like Toyota?

    Because that requires intellectual honesty, which you don’t have.

    Now you can go back to talking about yourself, just like the guy you voted in as President. It is something I’ve noticed about you of late – that you’re a braggart name-dropper who talks himself up a lot.

    It’s fun to do when you guys spend half you time trying to tear us down. So i shove it down your throat sideways, and I don’t give a shit about what you think, because you will never meet any of us in the middle anyway, so quit the pretense, it’s bullshit.

    There’s a line where one can talk about oneself to engender some personality to others and whatnot. You long ago passed that line.

    From the moment I arrived, or any new Liberal arrives, you guys immediately attempt to tear us down. You guys constantly belittle and shit talk.

    Your feigning concern for brotherly love is a sham.

    The more you guys talk shit, the more crap I throw in your face. Pick your approach you big phony.

  • Rex Hump

    and you would say, Ron Paul right?

  • Hannitized

    But I ask: What good is winning elections if the people conservatives back to win them don’t end up governing like conservatives?

    Conservatism is dead….I told you this.

    Nobody is going to get anything done or help the country by governing like a conservative.

    Wake up.

  • http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

    While don’t mind Mitt, I think he is way too much of a RINO, I also know he doesn’t get a very good rating by the NRA. I think the GOP should take a pass on him and Huckaphony next election cycle. There are other Republicans that can carry the water for us.

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