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Thursday, June 05, 2008

Report Cooked Up By Senate Democrats Accuses The Bush Adminstration Of Lying About Iraq

Which is not just a bogus accusation because Bush didn’t lie, but also because it accuses him of making a claim he never said.

The report repeats the oft-repeated-by-liberals lie about Bush saying Saddam Hussein’s regime was partly responsible for 9/11.  The problem, of course, is that neither Bush nor anyone else associated in an official capacity with his administration made any such claim.  Bush and his people said that Saddam Hussein had communications and/or operation links to terrorists who were responsible for 9/11, but never once has anyone in the Bush administration asserted that Saddam played a part in the 9/11 plot itself.

This is an important distinction, though one lost on the legions of liberals who take it as an article of faith that Bush lied us into war in Iraq.

They also can’t tell the difference between “lying” and “relying on faulty intelligence.”

But here’s a serious question for liberals who insist on re-hashing the case for war even as we watch our troops surging toward victory in the war five years after the invasion: What point is there in continuing to debate the invasion?

We’ve long since invaded Iraq.  President Bush is not, nor can he ever again, run for re-election to the White House.  So then, the question before us is not “Should we have invaded Iraq?” The question before us now is “Do we abandon the Iraqis we promised to help?”

And I think the answer to that question for anyone with a shred of honor is “No.”

Comments

Rob great blog post and no matter how many times this is said the left still continues to lie.


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Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
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goon on June 5, 2008 at 09:11 pm

These people are still crying over the milk they spilled in kindergarten.
What happened to “moving on?”

Kevin on June 5, 2008 at 09:13 pm

Rob,

From the leftards we have here, show me one who has either honor or partriotism.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2008 at 09:16 pm

The question before us now is “Do we abandon the Iraqis we promised to help?”

I disagree; the real question is: “Should we run away from an obviously needed and successful effort in order to appease the terrorist-loving Soros crowd?
Maybe Obambi wants to get paid.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 5, 2008 at 09:30 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

“Do we abandon the Iraqis we promised to help?”

And I think the answer to that question for anyone with a shred of honor is “No.”

Another false challenge from Rob. 

The American people didn’t promise to help the Iraqi’s, Bush did.  Why should the American people be held accountable for his stupid mistakes.

We “liberated” them, right?  We secured the country until they could gain control, right?  I think it is time for them to start helping themselves?

Remember, that little thing called personal responsibility?  Oh yeah, you don’t know what that means.  heh!

Hannitized on June 5, 2008 at 09:42 pm
Avatar for Patty Morgan

I was curious how the Right-Wing Authoritarian demographic was going to spin this. Thanks for delivering the goods.

Patty Morgan on June 5, 2008 at 09:48 pm

Patty Morgan - did you have a point?

likwidshoe on June 5, 2008 at 10:05 pm

I was curious how the Right-Wing Authoritarian demographic was going to spin this.

Patty,

Rightwing, perhaps.  Even with proper capitalization.  But “authoritarian”???

Apparently your intelligence and perceptive abilities are simply no match for your rhetoric.  The single biggest complaint of those of us on/in The Right over Mr. Bush’s tenure is that he has been too inclined to increase the scope, the power, and the financial resources of government.  It is those on the Left who are fervent believers in the expansion of government, not conservatives.  We’re the ones who want more freedom from government, not more pervasive control of our lives by it.

You need to spend more time and effort on the English language, and less on DNC talking points.  You’ll find it immeasurably helpful to actually know what you’re talking about.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on June 5, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Lik,

More so than a conehead.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2008 at 10:31 pm

Rob,

Never mind.  Eunichized has amply demonstrated the absence of both.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2008 at 10:32 pm

The intelligence wasn’t faulty. It was manipulated.

Bush didn’t say that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. He provided Americans a target for their anger which, coincidentally, happened to be his target.

ews48 on June 6, 2008 at 01:03 am

Poor Saddam. If only the Democrats were in charge, he would still be alive.

*SOB*

We now have a choice of electing Barack Obama. Islamic terrorists agree - Obama for President.

Now don’t question the Democrat’s patriotism. They get all atizzy at such notions of love for the country.

likwidshoe on June 6, 2008 at 01:32 am

Is this what is called the straw man argument?


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on June 6, 2008 at 04:10 am
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Poor Saddam. If only the Democrats were in charge, he would still be alive.

*SOB*

And his two evil sons...both S.O.B.s!



Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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Proof on June 6, 2008 at 04:10 am

Funny, all these same Democrats were screeching about how bad Saddam was and how “the world community” needed to force regime change in Iraq. All before 9/11/01. After? They started singing another tune, and as the years of moved along they have morphed into the position that Saddam was just a misunderstood and magnanimous leader of his downtrodden people from the evil American hegemonistic warmongers. What a bunch of hypocritical asswipes.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 6, 2008 at 04:46 am

They never got over Bill Clintons impeachment. This is “tit-for-tat” leftwing nonsense. It is too bad we can’t ship them all over to Venezuela where they would be more comfortable.

Mickey on June 6, 2008 at 05:05 am

But here’s a serious question for liberals who insist on re-hashing the case for war even as we watch our troops surging toward victory in the war five years after the invasion: What point is there in continuing to debate the invasion?

That’s a fair question. I think it’s important to understand how and why the case for war was made in order to learn from the mistakes in the hope that they won’t be repeated in the future. It’s also important to gain an understanding of the players and the process since the players often return to Administrations when the political winds blow in their favour.

I agree that treating this as a “gotcha” moment is a waste of time


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on June 6, 2008 at 08:52 am

I agree that treating this as a “gotcha” moment is a waste of time.

And yet, that’s exactly what you’re doing here, with this article.  You want to use this speculation as a club with which to bash the people(and the Party) that is responsible for our success in the ME, by spinning the entire scenario as negative.  You are completely transparent here.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 09:08 am
Avatar for Jack

I think it’s important to understand how and why the case for war was made in order to learn from the mistakes in the hope that they won’t be repeated in the future.

Also, those responsible for the quagmire in Iraq and the failures against al Queda need to be held accountable for a change.

Of course, “The Buck Stops Here” is exclusively a Democratic virtue.

Jack on June 6, 2008 at 10:19 am
Avatar for Jack

our success in the ME…

Success?

*sigh*

You just live in your own little world, don’t you?

Jack on June 6, 2008 at 10:21 am
Avatar for HG

Also, those responsible for the quagmire in Iraq and the failures against al Queda need to be held accountable for a change.

“Failures”?  al Qaeda is failing left and right.  Sorry to dash your hopes and dreams of al Qaeda success against America.

HG on June 6, 2008 at 10:23 am
Avatar for HG

You just live in your own little world, don’t you?

I suppose earth is relative little compared to the entire universe, but it is where we reside.  What planet do you imagine you live on where our success in the ME is cause for a “sigh”?

HG on June 6, 2008 at 10:26 am

Another false challenge from Rob. 
The American people didn’t promise to help the Iraqi’s, Bush did.  Why should the American people be held accountable for his stupid mistakes.

Americans overwhelmingly supported invading Iraq and toppling Saddam. So, it’s completely accurate to say that, in supporting their President and country’s call to war, that the American people did indeed promise help.

Though we could also say that since the average American isn’t paying for or fighting the war that their opinions are irrelevant. But you don’t wanna go there…

Remember, that little thing called personal responsibility?  Oh yeah, you don’t know what that means.  heh!

You’re simply trying to have it both ways. Clinton and Bush both sold the Iraq war to the American people. Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Gore, all made the case before Bush was in office that we need to invade Iraq. All those Dems who voted for the war, they share a responsibiliy for the war. You want to blame only Bush. That’s dishonest.

You have claimed we brought this mess on Iraq. Yet now you say the Iraqis aren’t bweing responsible in fixing the mess you claim we made. That’s also dishonest.

That’s a shame H. I always thought you were a man of principle who just lost your mind when we talked bout Obama. Now I realize you’re just a leftist parrot who says whatever talking point that makes right wingers out to be evil.

Another leftists true colors shine through.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on June 6, 2008 at 10:38 am

The intelligence wasn’t faulty. It was manipulated.

No less than Hanz Blix told the UN that Saddam did indeed have weapons. Britain told us Saddam was trying to get nukes. France told us his tubes were centrifuges. Unless we’re going to pretend that Bush controls the UN and France enough to manipulate evidence...but not enough to give him a stamp to go to war...your claim is false on its face. Strike One.

Bush didn’t say that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. He provided Americans a target for their anger which, coincidentally, happened to be his target.

That ignores Afghanistan.

Strike two. Wanna go for the Out?

Of course, “The Buck Stops Here” is exclusively a Democratic virtue.

Right. Where are the Democrats taking responsibility for voting for the war? Where are the Democrats apologizing for leading us into war? Where is Clinton apologizing for making regime change in Iraq a national policy that Bush was reguired to fulfill or repudiate? Where are the ones NOT lying about their vote? Where are the Dems apologizing for CONTINUING to fund the war? Where are the Dems apologizing for not ending the war? And, hell, for that matter, where are the Dems decrying their fellow congressman for saying their claims that they’d end the war were lies?

There is NO accountability for Democrats. The Buck is passed on to Republicans.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on June 6, 2008 at 10:45 am

And yet, that’s exactly what you’re doing here, with this article.  You want to use this speculation as a club with which to bash the people(and the Party) that is responsible for our success in the ME, by spinning the entire scenario as negative.  You are completely transparent here.

That’s not what he did at all Robert. He said that trying to understand the run up to war and the players involved was important.

He also said “mistakes” not “lies”.

Mike is one of the few decent Dems on this board. There’s no need to slander him. Remember complaining about people misusing your words?


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on June 6, 2008 at 10:48 am

Kenny: I stand by what I wrote.  Mike doesn’t spew the outright hate that most lefties do, but he absolutely believes this country is wrong, this President is wrong, and no facts to the contrary make any difference to him.  He will use anything, any possible spin, to make this country, and this President, responsible for all he believes is wrong in the world.  He is absolutely tonedeaf to the threat of international terrorism, and is in complete denial of the propaganda function of our MSM.  He’s just nice about saying all that.  Like I said, “transparent”.
Telling the truth isn’t “slander” in this country.
It might be in Europe, though.  Which standard do you use?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 10:59 am

Kenny: I think Mike is wrong on the facts, which is why I’m always refuting his statements about our President and our war policy.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 11:11 am
Avatar for Nunez

Rob,

Bush and his people said that Saddam Hussein had communications and/or operation links to terrorists who were responsible for 9/11, but never once has anyone in the Bush administration asserted that Saddam played a part in the 9/11 plot itself.

You’re arguing a straw man. Bush’s sin of omission about knowingly cherry picking and ignoring others is the problem.

What point is there in continuing to debate the invasion?

Because it was a decision that has killed 1,000,000+ people and has made millions more refugees.

So then, the question before us is not “Should we have invaded Iraq?” The question before us now is “Do we abandon the Iraqis we promised to help?”

This is clearly partisanship. Moving the debate from the point that Bush is one
of the worst President’s in history and clearly incompetent. A President which many of you voted for and have supported, which reflects on your judgement of picking competent Presidents.

Rob, I’m sure you said, “Clinton has long since gotten a blowjob from Monica.  President Clinton is not, nor can he ever again, run for re-election to the White House. Let’s just ignore impeachment and focus on something else.”

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:07 pm

Because it was a decision that has killed 1,000,000+ people and has made millions more refugees.

Another outright leftie lie.  That is the result of terrorism; we have blazed the path to eliminate terrorism from the world.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Avatar for Nunez

Rodney Graves,

From the leftards we have here, show me one who has either honor or partriotism.

Patriotism isn’t ignoring the injustice that your own country has committed, it’s ignorance. Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed—and no republic can survive.

”Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure.“ ~Abraham Lincoln

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Avatar for Nunez

Rodney Graves,

“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”
~H. L. MENCKEN

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Avatar for Nunez

Bat One,

It is those on the Left who are fervent believers in the expansion of government, not conservatives.

Bush’s actions speak louder than your words.

likwidshoe,

Poor Saddam. If only the Democrats were in charge, he would still be alive.

You put one man’s life on top of hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Avatar for Nunez

robert108,

You want to use this speculation as a club with which to bash the people(and the Party) that is responsible for our success in the ME, by spinning the entire scenario as negative.  You are completely transparent here.

This is a Senate Intelligence Committee report, not an ‘article’, which is supported by five Republicans on the committee.

http://intelligence.senate.gov/080605/phase2a.pdf

If a Democrat has created such a disaster, you would be screaming and bitching. Success in the Middle East? Take off the blind fold. Wake up and read about our perception in the world, especially in the Middle East.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Avatar for Nunez

Kenny,

Though we could also say that since the average American isn’t paying for or fighting the war that their opinions are irrelevant. But you don’t wanna go there…

Are you a communist? The President of the United States works FOR the people. Saying that we aren’t paying for the war is, false! We are in trillions of dollars in debt and we will have to pay for that. Getting loans from nations like China is just a way of going behind the backs of Americans and putting the burden of balancing the budget on future Presidents.

Republicans, aside from their rhetoric, are known for outrageous spending, while screaming about taxes.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 12:51 pm

If a Democrat has created such a disaster, you would be screaming and bitching. Success in the Middle East? Take off the blind fold. Wake up and read about our perception in the world, especially in the Middle East.

First, the war is not a “disaster"(except for the terrorists), so you lie there.  Second, the reason we have the situation today with international terrorism today is due to the failure of two Dems(Carter and Clinton) to act against international terrorism at an earlier stage of development.
When you speak of “our perception in the world"(by which you mean “the world’s perception of us”, but lack the English skills to say so), you are speaking about the dictators of the world, not the people, most of whom would love to live here, rather than in the socialist hellholes in which they are essentially slaves.  Get real.
As far as the ME is concerned, the terrorists there should fear us, and the ones who are willing to abandon their medieval ideology should welcome us.
Iraq is now the first democracy in the history of the ME, thanks to us.
Wake up, leftie!


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Republicans, aside from their rhetoric, are known for outrageous spending, while screaming about taxes.

Another leftie lie; Republicans may spend, but they don’t hit the economy with the double whammy of increasing both spending and taxes, like the Dems have always done since FDR.  Most Republican admins, until this one, kept the social(wasteful) spending down, instead preferring to spend our money on legitimate things, like national defense.  Pandering to the Dem agenda by increasing social spending has been a big mistake.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 01:04 pm

You put one man’s life on top of hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Do you know how many Iraqi civilians Saddam murdered and tortured?

It’s always hypocritical for a leftie to criticize President Bush’s spending; they would have spent far more, and on far more wasteful social engineering pyramid schemes.  At least President Bush is spending on our national defense.  He also had to make up for Clinton’s massive gutting of our military and intel programs, which helped cause the terrorism situation we face today.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 01:07 pm
Avatar for Nunez

robert108,

At least President Bush is spending on our national defense.  He also had to make up for Clinton’s massive gutting of our military and intel programs, which helped cause the terrorism situation we face today.

Compare that with the far larger cuts made during the George H.W. Bush administration: In 1989, the military stood at 2,130,229 and the Army had 769,741 soldiers. By 1993, those numbers had declined by 19.9 percent and 25.6 percent, respectively.

http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/MILITARY/history/Hst0989.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/MILITARY/history/Hst0993.pdf

It is not correct to say that the Clinton administration began to cut U.S. military forces. No matter how you measure defense spending, President George H.W. Bush had significantly trimmed it by the time Clinton was sworn in. And it was Bush’s administration, not Clinton’s, that first boasted of a “peace dividend.”

Measured in what economists call “constant dollars,” adjusted for inflation, defense spending declined by nearly 15 percent between Reagan’s last budget (for fiscal year 1989) and the elder Bush’s last budget four years later. The decline was just under 13 percent between Bush’s last budget and Clinton’s final fiscal year (2001). In other words, the buying power of the dollars spent for defense declined more during Bush’s four years than during Clinton’s eight.

The decline in defense spending under Bush is even more dramatic when measured in what economists call “nominal dollars,” with no adjustment for inflation. For example, in testimony given January 31, 1992, before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Bush’s secretary of defense explained that “overall, since I’ve been secretary, we will have taken the five-year defense program down by well over $300 billion. That’s the peace dividend.… And now we’re adding to that another $50 billion … of so-called peace dividend.” That defense secretary, of course, was Dick Cheney.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 01:34 pm

And it was Bush’s administration, not Clinton’s, that first boasted of a “peace dividend.”

Pure bullshit; after the WTC attack in ‘93(the first Islamic terrorist attack on our soil), Clinton continued to cut military and intel assets; in spite of a very clear threat to our national security.  You lie again, leftie.  With the continuing rise of international terrorism during the Clinton adminstration, the concept of a “peace dividend” was ridiculous.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 01:47 pm
Avatar for Nunez

robert108,

First, the war is not a “disaster"(except for the terrorists), so you lie there.

Calling a man’s own judgement about something as a lie, is a lie to ones self. If I judge a woman’s look with makeup as a ‘disaster’ doesn’t mean it’s a lie if you don’t agree.

Iraq is now the first democracy in the history of the ME, thanks to us.
Wake up, leftie!

Turkey, Lebanon and Israel are democracies in the middle east.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 01:53 pm

robert108,

It is true that G. H. W. Bush declared a “peace dividend” and cut the armed forces deeply (almost to the bone).  I was against that at the time, arguing then that maintaining current force levels and development programs would result in a capability gap that no nation would be able to catch in less than two or three decades of very heavy spending.

Clinton then proceeded to continue cutting until he hit marrow.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2008 at 01:54 pm
Avatar for Nunez

Rodney Graves,

I may not agree with all of your opinions, but I respect them, you have the integrity to know when facts are facts.

Have a good day Sir.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 02:07 pm

Iraq is now the first democracy in the history of the ME, thanks to us.
Wake up, leftie!
Truth is the antidote to propaganda.
robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Iran was also a democracy until the CIA and their proxies assasinated their president. Kermit Roosevelt anyone?
Truth indeed is the antidote to propaganda.

ellinas on June 6, 2008 at 02:56 pm

Rodney Graves, This is why I call you Beloved Rodney.
The rtruth does not scare you.

ellinas on June 6, 2008 at 02:57 pm
Avatar for Aye Chihuahua

quagmire in Iraq

killed 1,000,000+ people

*sigh*

You just live in your own little world, don’t you?

Aye Chihuahua on June 6, 2008 at 03:01 pm

If I judge a woman’s look with makeup as a ‘disaster’ doesn’t mean it’s a lie if you don’t agree.

This has nothing to do with a woman and her makeup; you are wrong on the facts, you know it, but you lie anyway.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 03:54 pm

Iran was also a democracy until the CIA and their proxies assasinated their president. Kermit Roosevelt anyone?

That was before a lot of us were born.


Check out:
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Goon’s World

goon on June 6, 2008 at 04:12 pm

Kenny said: Americans overwhelmingly supported invading Iraq and toppling Saddam. So, it’s completely accurate to say that, in supporting their President and country’s call to war, that the American people did indeed promise help.

Also our senate and congress voted to allow bush to go to war.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on June 6, 2008 at 04:15 pm

Iraq was, in point of fact, one of the early representative republics in the ME. Up until the Ba’athists came to power.

r108, hate to have to smack you on this one, but there it is. Turkey, Iraq, Israel. In that order. Egypt was a distant 4th.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 6, 2008 at 05:22 pm

And again, numbnuts has nothing of relevance to say. It merely spews leftarded talking points and lame assed insults. This makes 6 threads in which it does this.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 6, 2008 at 05:29 pm

And while we are on the subject, whose suckpuppet is numbnuts(nunez)?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 6, 2008 at 05:30 pm

Gruesome detail warning!

Turkey is a very odd case.  Institutionally the Army are the heirs of Attaturk.  They consider themselves the guardians of Attaturk’s legacy.  If a government strays too far from that legacy, the Army will intervene to the extent they find neccessary.  Calling their system a democracy is rather problematic as a result.

Iraq’s diversion into Ba’athist dictatorship was long and brutal.  There are not a lot of Iraqi’s who remember what the previous system was like.

Iran’s post WWII history prior to the fall of the Shah I am less conversant with, so I will decline to comment upon it, other than to say this: Democracy in Iran is currently (and for the last 20 + years) permitted and curtailed at the whim of the Mullahs.

Egypt has been a token democracy under the iron fist of one dicatator after another since Naser.

Israel is the only current functional democracy in the region.  Iraq is currently trending that way…


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2008 at 05:45 pm

Clinton then proceeded to continue cutting until he hit marrow.

GHW Bush cut military in time of peace; Clinton cut it in time of war(WTC ‘93 was an act of war that Clinton ignored, with escalating terrorism during the Nineties, culminating in 9/11 as a consequence).  Not the same thing at all.  Another failed leftie equivalence.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 05:58 pm

robert108,

G. H. W. Bush sqandered an opportunity, and cut both fat and muscle from the armed forces.

Clinton cut defense well into the bone.

We know in hindsight that al Qaeda was making war on us in Clinton’s administration, and I certainly agree that he did not respond appropriately to the various terrorist incidents, but no state of war was viewed to be in effect at that time.  The prevailing view and policy was that terrorism was a matter for law enforcement.

That view and policy have since been discredited, and the view of terrorism as warfare with the policy of making war on terrorists and their supporters has so far proved far superior.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2008 at 06:09 pm

G. H. W. Bush sqandered an opportunity, and cut both fat and muscle from the armed forces.

I agree; he should have bitchslapped the Dem Congress at that time, which was spoiling to appease the dictators of the world after our success in the Gulf War by taking a submissive approach to world politics.  Had we finished the job in Iraq then, Iran would already be subdued, there would be a modern, functioning democracy in Iraq(instead of a fledgling one), and many Americans would still be alive, along with all the Iraqis that wouldn’t have been slaughtered by Saddam and the “insurgents”.  Hindsight.
I retrospect, GW has produced a fairly good outcome out of what was handed to him.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 06:16 pm

r108,

Concur.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2008 at 06:20 pm

r108, hate to have to smack you on this one, but there it is. Turkey, Iraq, Israel. In that order. Egypt was a distant 4th.

Turkey, Iraq and Egypt can only be regarded as “democracies” if you change the definition of the word so that it doesn’t require real elections.  As for Israel, it’s in the ME, it’s a democracy(a real one), but it’s not part of the ME terrorist problem.
I confess to verbal imprecision on Israel; the rest, not so much.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 06:25 pm
Avatar for Nunez

robert108,

he should have bitchslapped the Dem Congress at that time, which was spoiling to appease the dictators of the world after our success in the Gulf War by taking a submissive approach to world politics.

I’m not sure what Congress terms you are specifically speaking about ‘after our success in the Gulf War,’ but the Republicans have controlled both houses from 1995-2007(104th-109th).

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 07:39 pm

Kenny...I appreciate the sentiment but I’m definitely not a Democrat. From my Canadian perspective there is not a great deal of difference between your two major parties, the current Republican incarnation excepted. This tired and unusually ideological group is quite unlike any American government that I can remember.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on June 6, 2008 at 07:44 pm

It’s always good to juxtapose what the Dims screech and pound the table about, with, oh… the facts?

UN Admits Saddam Had WMD

UNMOVIC Comes Clean on Saddam’s WMD and It’s Worried

The World Tribune reported on Perricos’s briefing. “He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month… The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters ... required for the production of chemical and biological warheads. ‘It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for,’ Perricos’s spokesman, said. ‘You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax.’”

Anthrax? Reactor vessels? Now they tell us?

Not exactly. The question was never what the world knew. The UN apparat, along with all of the world’s major intelligence services, knew the chief threat Saddam posed was in nonconventional capabilities that threatened the world, either by Iraq’s further use or by export to other countries or non-state actors. The question was, rather, what the world was willing to do about what it knew. The answer, wrapped partly in the vast corruption of the oil-for-food program and partly in fear of a terrorist backlash, was “nothing.”

The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein’s intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that “we had all known weapons facilities secured,” has proven itself to be untrue.

It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump,” he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a 16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were incomplete, they and others have said.

“We know it was there, in place, it just wasn’t operative when inspectors got there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that’s what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they were certainly headed in that direction,” said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly Standard and a FOX News contributor.

Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq


...for great justice

2eaqln4.jpg

Move_Zig on June 6, 2008 at 07:53 pm

I must confess to a great deal of admiration for Kamil Attaturk. He saw what had to be done, and how it had to be structured to survive. He was not subtle, politically, in the western sense. Fact remains, Turkey stands against the Islamic caliphate and socialist hegemony. They are not what Americans accept as democracy, they are, nonetheless , a functioning representative republic. The current stand, supported by the majority of citizens, against the imposition of an Islamic theocracy, such as Iran, is far more important than the political left in America will admit.

Are they what American’s call a “democracy”? No. Then again, the majority of people in America are vastly confused as to what that is in the first place. Thank you, public education.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 6, 2008 at 07:53 pm
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2Hotel9,

And while we are on the subject, whose suckpuppet is numbnuts(nunez)?

Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us. To be insulted by you is to be garlanded with lilies.

Nunez on June 6, 2008 at 07:58 pm

I’m not sure what Congress terms you are specifically speaking about…

Obviously.  GHW Bush was President from the 1988 election until the 1992 election.  That would be the time frame to which I was referring.  Glad I could ‘splain that to you.
The 1995 Congress had their hands full holding back Clinton’s Marxist ambitions for our country, but did manage to pass ANWR, only to have it vetoed by Slick Willy, as has been noted before.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 6, 2008 at 09:03 pm

So, whose suckpuppet are you?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 7, 2008 at 03:16 am

And yes, I am not addressing the subject of this post any longer. This “report” says nothing new, and is of absolutely no value beyond the comedic. Anyone who has paid the least attention to the Mid East during the last 30 years knows who the players are and were, and exactly what the game is and was. Making up fanciful tales about how America is evil, imperialistic, and smelly, whilst portraying Saddam Hussein and religious terrorists as the great heroes of humanity fighting against the evil American boogerheads is bullshit. Yet, you will continue on with it, cause you have nothing else.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 7, 2008 at 03:23 am

Making up fanciful tales about how America is evil, imperialistic, and smelly, whilst portraying Saddam Hussein and religious terrorists as the great heroes of humanity fighting against the evil American boogerheads is bullshit.

I agree and I’ll argue against that position should it ever be advanced.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on June 7, 2008 at 07:42 am

Iran was also a democracy until the CIA and their proxies assasinated their president. Kermit Roosevelt anyone?
ellinas on June 6, 2008 at 02:56 pm

That was before a lot of us were born.
goon on June 6, 2008 at 04:12 pm

You mean to tell me you would have been opposed to the killing of Iran’s president and the instalation of the Shah as leader of Iran if you were born earlier?
Do you realy think anything changed since then?

ellinas on June 7, 2008 at 09:02 am

You mean to tell me you would have been opposed to the killing of Iran’s president and the instalation of the Shah as leader of Iran if you were born earlier? Do you realy think anything changed since then?

I am just saying that I won’t take blame for something that happened before I was born or before I was even out of high school. Just because I am a conservative doesn’t mean that I or other conservatives are responsible for it nor would we condone it.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on June 7, 2008 at 09:18 am

Again, what existed in Iran before the Shah was only a “democracy” if you change the definition for your partisan political purposes.  This is just more of e man’s know-nothing bullshit.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 7, 2008 at 09:45 am

Again, what existed in Iran before the Shah was only a “democracy” if you change the definition for your partisan political purposes.  This is just more of e man’s know-nothing bullshit.
robert108 on June 7, 2008 at 09:45 am

Being unable to refute the facts, robert108 resorts to....well bulshit tyoe comments.

ellinas on June 7, 2008 at 09:54 am

I am just saying that I won’t take blame for something that happened before I was born or before I was even out of high school. Just because I am a conservative doesn’t mean that I or other conservatives are responsible for it nor would we condone it.
goon on June 7, 2008 at 09:18 am

Answer this:Do you realy think anything changed since then?

ellinas on June 7, 2008 at 09:58 am

The Iranian people could never forgive the Shah and Pro-Shah activists (Saltanat-Talabs) for the 1953 bloody coup d’état against the Iranian national hero, Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh, the Prime Minister of Iran who was elected by the parliament, the Iranian legend who enforced the Oil Nationalization Bill to terminate the British ownership and influence on the Iran’s oil industry in 1951.

This is from an anti-Shah site, btw.  Election by the parliament is not any sort of democracy, which is what I said in the first place.  You are full of bullshit, as usual, e man, and you’re lying about me doesn’t reflect well on your integrity or honesty.
You are simply wrong.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 7, 2008 at 10:30 am

There you go goon. Straight from the horse’s mouth.
We killed Iran’s president because he dared take control of their natural resources. And the fact that he was not elected by direct vote (parliament elected him) made it all easier.

ellinas on June 7, 2008 at 11:36 am
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