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Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Reasonable Doubt In Haditha

Andrew Walden:

Eager to score points against President George W. Bush, US Representative John Murtha (D-PA) is calling the November 19 incident in Haditha “murder”. He claims there is a “cover up.” Over 40 news stories appeared Memorial Day weekend calling Haditha, “an atrocity” or “a massacre.” Murtha says, Haditha “is worse than abu-Ghraib.” Terrorist cheerleader and Cindy Sheehan associate Dahr Jamail is calling for the death penalty. The terror apologists of the Council on American Islamic Relations are calling for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign. Al-Qaeda terrorists from Zarqawi’s group, Ansar al-Sunnah are circulating leaflets in Haditha congratulating “those who participated in exposing the dirty deeds of the Americans.”

The liberal media is chiming in to make sure that Haditha is used to wear down support for our troops in Iraq—just as they did with abu-Ghraib. Peering through the media smokescreen few have noticed that all of the actual shooting eye-witnesses in the media’s kangaroo court are local Iraqis--witnesses who are under constant threat from terrorists and whose motivations may be suspect. All the US witnesses currently quoted in the media saw events before or after the alleged shootings—but not the shootings themselves.

Only now—two and a half months after the story broke in the March 19 issue of Time magazine-- are the voices of soldiers who question the charges beginning to be heard. Marine Captain James Kimber commanded Lima Company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment. The troops involved in the incident were from Kilo Company. He tells interviewers that he first learned about the shootings in February when he heard that a Time magazine reporter was asking questions about civilian deaths. Notably, Kimber says he heard nothing about a civilian massacre during weekly meetings with the Haditha City Council and talks with local leaders. "It would have been huge, there would have been no question it would have filtered down to us," he said. "We reported no significant atmospheric change as a result of that day." Kimber who has been relieved of his command and is back in Camp Pendleton, CA says, “I believe I was a political casualty as a result of the Haditha incident.” Some media accounts indicate that some of the dead were relatives of a Haditha City Council member. The May 12, 2006 edition of Iraq Reconstruction Update carries a photo and short article about Marine officers holding weekly meetings with the Haditha City Council with no mention of the alleged shooting controversy.


Read the whole thing.

Comments

Avatar for goprairie

It is important to distinguish between ‘supporting our troops’ and ‘supporting our troops still being there’ as they are very different concepts.  One can be anti-war or anti-this-war or anti-continued-involvement-in-this-war yet still support each individual soldier who is there giving his or her all daily. 

For example, the Patriot Guard, a group of motorcycle riders who provide a barrier between the Phelps harrassers and the funeral goers, is made up of many people with a wide variety of sentiments about the war and gay rights, and they come together from all sides of both issues to help guarantee a peaceful and respectful service and burial. 

We all, including the press, should be keeping more of an innocent-until-proven attitude, yet raising awareness that this MIGHT have happened can help keep others from letting themselves get caught up in a similar situation and can help our leaders think about and manage the stresses that might lead to such a situation, so it should not be ignored.

goprairie on June 6, 2006 at 07:27 am
Avatar for Friend of USA

The terror apologists of the Council on American Islamic Relations are calling for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.

Well then at least half the muslim leaders on the planet should resign because the number of murders that they are not keeping their men from commiting is at least a thousand times the number of murders that Rumsfeld is not keeping his men from commiting.

Friend of USA on June 6, 2006 at 09:36 am
Avatar for robert108

In any legal dispute, the prosecution speaks first, listing all the charges.  Next, the defense speaks, and is charged with examining all the accusations and disproving them wherever possible.  We are just entering the defense phase of this situation.  My question is: are any of the reporters forensic experts? Statements have been made about wounds, and I wonder if they have any factual content whatsoever.  Cross-examination of the evidence is the key here, and it has yet to take place.

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 11:19 am
Avatar for Jesse Lackman

Michael Yon : Hijacking Haditha

Pay attention to the part on how the despicables use children to their own evil ends.

Also I’ve read where the insurgents have used US-like uniforms to try and get US troops tangled up in charges like those at Haditha.

It is amazing what utter crap passes for “news” these days and how the preprogrammed psychomyopic gobble it up while frantically screwing their blinders even tighter. They look at a tree and think it’s the forest, they are right of course, just ask them.

Ah the bliss of psychotic self-righteousness!! 

Jesse Lackman on June 6, 2006 at 11:26 am
Avatar for realitybasedbob

Where is Osama?

realitybasedbob on June 6, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Avatar for Jesse

Is Osama a tree, or the forest??

wink

Jesse on June 6, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Avatar for diane

Where is Osama or Zarqawi?  Haven’t we killed Zarqawi already...no, he popped back up again and, like Osama, looks quite different than he did, quite plump and happy; not like a disabled man running for his life from the most powerful nation on earth.

Well then at least half the muslim leaders on the planet should resign because the number of murders that they are not keeping their men from commiting is at least a thousand times the number of murders that Rumsfeld is not keeping his men from commiting.

Hahahaha.  There it is again:

Na na na na na, you liberals, take this:

Bush isn’t as bad as Saddam.

Rumsfeld isn’t as bad as those Muslim terrorist leader guys.

My daddy can beat up your daddy.

diane on June 6, 2006 at 02:02 pm
Avatar for Jesse

Where is Osama or Zarqawi?

Hey!

Are Osama and Zarqawi trees or the forest??

Or flypaper?

They are catching lots of flies, and as long as they are why not leave them alone??

If you care to pry aside your blinders a bit here are a couple sites to read;

http://jihadwatch.org/

Keeping track of evil islamic programmers and their ignorant programmed blowbots.

http://freedomspeace.blogspot.com/

Domocratic freedom is the cure for famine, war, terrorism, genocide, democide, ect.

Jesse on June 6, 2006 at 03:13 pm
Avatar for robert108

It’s also the cure for imperialistic Islam.

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 03:30 pm
Avatar for Friend of USA

One of the 17 terrorists caught in Canada has said he wanted to behead my prime minister Stephen Harper.( I don’t have a link but it was on every tv station here in Canada today, )

Those savages only understand violence, we have no choice but to kill as many as we can.

Who cares where Osama is, even if the US catches or kill him it won’t change anything, just like catching Saddam did not change anything.

The problem is not their leaders, the problem is their culture of violence that has dragged on for centuries.

The only solution is to kill a lot of islamic terrorists and force the Islamic world to abandon its 7th century barbaric ways and join us the modern civilized world.

Friend of USA on June 6, 2006 at 04:25 pm
Avatar for realitybasedbob

Yeah, yeah, Kill KILL

What if we had a war to end all wars?...oh...wait a minute

realitybasedbob on June 6, 2006 at 05:26 pm
Avatar for robert108

Well, we could pull a “jihad” approach and give the terrorists the choice to either submit to personal, political, economic and religious freedom or die.  Maybe they would be capable of understanding that one.

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 05:30 pm
Avatar for WETBACK

I remember hearing the argument, even if Hitler successfully killed all the Jews, do you think that would make this world a better place? and who would be next? well even if the Jews kill all the arabs, do you think the world would be a better place? and if not who would be next? Oh yea the terroriests right lol, maybe it would include me and you

WETBACK on June 6, 2006 at 05:35 pm
Avatar for diane

Still can’t figure out why all those ‘christian’ Americans are killing tens of thousands of Islamists in their own country and not the other way around.  Especially when those Islamists had done nothing to them.

diane on June 6, 2006 at 06:04 pm
Avatar for diane

their culture of violence

Theirs?  You should worry about the culture of violence existing just south of your border.

diane on June 6, 2006 at 06:06 pm
Avatar for TwoHotel9

Produce 10’s of thousands of corpses. I double dawg dare you.

TwoHotel9 on June 6, 2006 at 06:06 pm
Avatar for diane

What an ass.

diane on June 6, 2006 at 06:14 pm
Avatar for diane

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13171286/

Updated: 3:24 p.m. PT June 6, 2006
WASHINGTON -

The Senate Armed Services Committee plans hearings soon on last November’s incident in the western Iraqi town and to determine whether the military tried to cover it up

...Republican senator...Susan Collins from Maine, said the committee must “ask hard questions such as, ’When did Secretary Rumsfeld learn of the allegations?’ and ’What action did he take?’”

Criticism only a ‘defense mechanism’
The senators spoke on the same day a senior U.S. State Department official brushed aside criticism from Iraq’s prime minister over the Haditha incident.
“It’s a defense mechanism ... I wouldn’t make too much out of it,” James Jeffrey, the State Department’s Iraq coordinator, said of the criticism from Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.
He said he believed U.S. forces were well-respected in Iraq and Maliki’s outburst was to be expected.

Pompous, arrogant invaders!!

diane on June 6, 2006 at 09:38 pm
Avatar for robert108

Actually, Haditha might just turn out to be about “blood money”.  Don’t be surprised:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22801

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 09:46 pm
Avatar for Puzzlefeet

Horowitz is your source?  LOL

Puzzlefeet on June 7, 2006 at 03:38 am
Avatar for Puzzlefeet

Interesting ..... 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/06/AR2006060601396.html

Yup, we’re winning alright, the government is operating we’re standing down as they are standing up, the insurgency is in its last throes.  There is no civil war.  Hm..... really.

Puzzlefeet on June 7, 2006 at 05:01 am
Rob
Rob
19517 comments
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Right, Puzzle, and all those things are obviously refuted by some partisan opinion columnist with a political axe to grind.

Get real.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on June 7, 2006 at 06:16 am
Avatar for Carrick

Puzzlefeet:

Horowitz is your source? LOL

That of course is not exactly a rebuttal.

Carrick on June 7, 2006 at 06:27 am
Avatar for Puzzlefeet

Rob, are you saying the insurgency IS in its last throes?  That the violence isn’t on the increase? That the Iraqi government is operating? That the Iraqi government has appointed ministers to the two most important departments, interior and defense?  That the Iraqi army/police is standing up so we can stand down? That more and more Iraqis are not being kidnapped and killed?

Puzzlefeet on June 7, 2006 at 07:43 am
Avatar for Friend of USA

Maybe last throes is not the right word, but the fact that the terrorists are now - not only killing mostly muslims instead of US troops - but actually blowing mosques and what have you says a lot about how desperate they are…

The day US troops start shooting American civilians and blowing up American embassies or what have you, because they are so frustrated that they can not shoot any terrorists, I’ll admit the US is failing and desperate and in its last throes.

But don’t hold your breath, hehehe…

Friend of USA on June 7, 2006 at 09:44 am
Avatar for robert108

P: “Horowitz is your source? LOL” That’s all you have?
When the Superior Man hears the truth, he immediately puts it into action.
When the middling man hears the truth, he wants to hear more about it.
When the fool hears the truth, he(or she) laughs; if he(or she) didn’t laugh, it wouldn’t be the truth.

robert108 on June 7, 2006 at 09:49 am
Avatar for diane

When the middling man hears the truth, he wants to hear more about it.
When the fool hears the truth, he(or she) laughs; if he(or she) didn’t laugh, it wouldn’t be the truth.

Well, good afternoon, Robert108.  And how are you today?

That’s what happened in my case and why I wanted to know more and then had to change my party affilitation and become an anti-Bush/anti-war person.

diane on June 7, 2006 at 12:18 pm
Avatar for robert108

diane: As usual, you left out the part that blows your little ego out of the water.  Go back and reread the first statement.  Of course, if you could live that one, you wouldn’t be you.  You are the one who laughs, btw.  At least you have used those acronyms in your comments many times.

robert108 on June 7, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Avatar for diane

I’m the middling man.  I never feel I have all the truth.  That’s the problem; all of you are deluded into thinking you’re the ‘superior’ man.

You see, I don’t believe your quote at all.
A superior man doesnt’ immediately change.  He investigates first to make sure it’s the truth.

Don’t believe everything you hear.  Even the devil disguises himself as an angel of light. Things aren’t always what they seem to be.  Look before you leap.  Haste makes waste.

diane on June 7, 2006 at 01:56 pm
Avatar for diane

Robert, you’re the ones who claim superiority.

I’m the middling man.  And I put alot of stock in old sayings, like:

Look before you leap.  Patience is a virtue.  Think before you act.  Even the devil comes disguised as an angel of light.  Things aren’t always as they appear to be.  Haste makes waste.

You, on the other hand, believe that truth is something that lights up the sky and is totally 100% every time self-evident and must be acted on immediately.  Your saying you quote over and over is flawed.

Pilate asked:  What is truth?

Acknowledgement of truth is usually a process, not a ‘Eureka’ moment.

It’s best you learn that, late as it may be for you to do so.  Waiting is a safety valve in most cases.  If things are truth, time will be their friend, not their enemy.  Lies like the quick fix.

diane on June 7, 2006 at 02:02 pm
Avatar for diane

Oh well....they’re both good posts.

smile

diane on June 7, 2006 at 02:03 pm
Avatar for diane

Oh yes:  Question everything.

That’s really my favorite.  My mom would finally say:  “There IS no ‘why’”.

diane on June 7, 2006 at 02:05 pm
Avatar for robert108

diane: point by point:

“Robert, you’re the ones who claim superiority.
I have never claimed superiority.

I’m the middling man. I believe you believe that, but you laugh at what others write, so, maybe not.And I put alot of stock in old sayings,(instead of your own ability to perceive and reason) like:

Look before you leap. Patience is a virtue. Think before you act. Even the devil comes disguised as an angel of light. Things aren’t always as they appear to be. Haste makes waste.

Good advice for the fear-based.

You, on the other hand, believe that truth is something that lights up the sky and is totally 100% every time self-evident and must be acted on immediately. Your saying you quote over and over is flawed.

You have no idea what I believe, other than what I have told you, and none of the above is what I have written about my beliefs.  You are wrong in every sentence there.  BTW, belief is weak; knowledge is strong.  You can’t be manipulated with your knowledge.

Pilate asked: What is truth?

By his own admission, Pilate didn’t know what truth was.  Is he your shining example?  Two thousand years of history tell the truth about him.

Acknowledgement of truth is usually a process, not a ‘Eureka’ moment.Funny example.  The original Eureka moment was when Archimedes discovered the principle of displacement when he lowered himself into his bathtub.  No process at all.  You refute your own argument.

I believe you about your own consciousness.  The truth, however, is always true and never changes. It only takes time for those who initially embrace lies. For the open-minded, knowing the truth is instantaneous.

It’s best you learn that, late as it may be for you to do so. Waiting is a safety valve in most cases. Waiting is the way of the coward, like Chamberlin with Hitler.If things are truth, time will be their friend, not their enemy. Lies like the quick fix.

You admit that you don’t know the truth.  That is the beginning of wisdom.  You speak, then, without knowing the truth, and that is arrogant ignorance.

robert108 on June 7, 2006 at 02:33 pm
Avatar for diane

Robert, further ‘discussion’ with you is absolutely a waste of time for both of us.

We just have almost nothing in common.

Seriously, I’m not interested in what you have to say, so address your remarks to others, not myself.

I can’t make head or tails of you and don’t want to make the effort to do so.

Thanks so much.

diane on June 7, 2006 at 02:38 pm
Avatar for robert108

You addressed me, and I replied to you.  What part of that don’t you understand?  Here’s a saying for you: “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.”
I agree with you that discussion, if you can’t reason properly, but only namecall and insult, is a waste of time.  Glad you realize that.  I used no insults or namecalling with you, and you are unable to reply in kind.  At least you are smart enough to realize that. Come back when you can play with the adults.

robert108 on June 7, 2006 at 02:42 pm
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