Say Anything Blog

President Bush Wanted To Fix Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac In 2003, Democrats Didn’t

By Rob on September 17, 2008 at 08:12 am

And may I ask what stopped the Republican controlled senate and house from taking action even if the democrats did not want to? What stopped Bush from using the bully pulpit to push for reforms? Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go around.

Rob gets it right; guaranteeing bad loans was the initial financial mistake; mandating bad loans was the social engineering blunder.  The rest was inevitable.  The real cure here is to let lenders do business the way they should, instead of trying to use home loans as a tool of social engineering.  No lender makes a loan it knows is bad, unless someone promises to bail it out by buying up the bad paper.
If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it, no matter what kind of mandates the Carter and Clinton administrations created.
The only way for poor people to get rich is for them to participate in the economy.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

President Bush could not have stopped this, with the Dems bitterly clinging to their social engineering mandates.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

And may I ask what stopped the Republican controlled senate and house from taking action even if the democrats did not want to?

It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Hello??? What Republican controlled House and Senate.  Where have you been? It’s the past 2 years that the Dems have been in charge of both houses that this economy has gone in the dumper. And about Pelosi’s cleaning up corruption? Let me say just 2 words: “CHARLIE RANGEL”!!! I’m just sayin….

Hello??? What Republican controlled House and Senate.  Where have you been? It’s the past 2 years that the Dems have been in charge of both houses that this economy has gone in the dumper. And about Pelosi’s cleaning up corruption? Let me say just 2 words: “CHARLIE RANGEL”!!! I’m just sayin….

CJBerg on September 17, 2008 at 08:49 am

It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius.

It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius.

Rob on September 17, 2008 at 08:45 am

And may I ask, how many votes the Repubs could have mustered for reform?
Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go around.

Nice.  Well, the only compliant I have about the republican pary’s behavior on this front is it doesn’t sound like they raised enough of a stink about it.

I was not too aware of the Fannie/Freddie problem brewing till it already exploded.  Then again, in 2003, I was 18, and hadn’t started working in finance yet, so I guess my ignorance may have stemmed from youth.

Who knows?

Well, the only compliant I have about the republican pary’s behavior on this front is it doesn’t sound like they raised enough of a stink about it.

Good Point!  Mr. Bush has been far too inclined to work with Democrats and compromise, rather than take them on in head-to-head competition.  He was 6 years into his presidency before he actually used his veto pen, and he has allowed idiots like Reid and Pelosi far to much sway over government policy.  Mr. Bush may have been thinking consensus and compromise, but congressional Democrats have been thinking command and control the entire time.

If Pelosi was ever serious about cleaning up the corruptioon in Washington, she would have started with Fannie Mae, whose lobbying operation, particularly aimed at long-term Democrats, was arguably the most effective and the most generous in Washington.  Of course, Pelosi was never serious about draining anything but the taxpayers’ wallets.

Johnson, Raines, and Jamie Gorelick, Democrats all, should be in jail.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

  No lender makes a loan it knows is bad, unless someone promises to bail it out by buying up the bad paper.

Enter AIG who insured the loans.

Enter AIG who insured the loans.

Ultimately, it was the govt who backed the loans, no matter what agency it used.  Witness the bailout today.
No value was created by making bad loans; that’s the bottom line.  Social engineering doesn’t pay; it costs.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

And may I ask what stopped the Republican controlled senate and house from taking action even if the democrats did not want to? What stopped Bush from using the bully pulpit to push for reforms? Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go around.

DNC Filibuster, because we all know that these two compainies are shelling out millions to the DNC. Obama has recieved a lot of it in three years.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Yeah; Dodd got the most, and Obama was second.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Enter AIG who insured the loans.

Wrong.  AIG is not in the mortgage insurance business, and if they were, they would only be insuring that portion of a mortgage loan above the 80% LTV threshold.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

No value was created by making bad loans; that’s the bottom line.

Bad loans bought lenders, mortgage brokers, appraisers , hedge fund managers a lot of jet planes
Ferraris , estates in the Hamptons,Ski houses
in Aspen beach houses on St Barts. They maintain ownership, there new
assets did not disappear. That’s the bottom line.

President Bush Wanted To Fix Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac In 2003, Democrats Didn’t

The champion of deregulation wanted to increase regulation.
Pass the salt.

Woof: As a leftie, of course you are ignorant on the matter of value creation; you confuse it with possessions.  Another sad victim of Marx’s lies.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Who the F was interested in value creation
during the debacle?
R108 as you r a student of Marx
you know the concept of
Fictitious Capital.

The champion of deregulation wanted to increase regulation.

So what exactly has Mr.Bush de-regulated?

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Ignore Robert Woof, he thinks the loan problem is America is all the blacks and brownies fault.  40 years of bad loans to those with bad credit for racial reasons is how he thinks.

Whites had nothing to do with this you know.

guaranteeing bad loans was the initial financial mistake; mandating bad loans was the social engineering blunder.  The rest was inevitable.  The real cure here is to let lenders do business the way they should, instead of trying to use home loans as a tool of social engineering

But later he said;

This is about Dem social engineering, and govt-backed mandated loans to people with bad credit, for racial reasons.

What a racist twit.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I meant:

Ignore Robert, Woof, he thinks the loan problem in America is all the blacks and brownies fault.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

R108 as you r a student of Marx you know the concept of
Fictitious Capital.

Yes, that’s one of his Big Lies.  There is no such thing.
Marx’s initial wrong premise was the Labor Theory of Value; everything after that was GIGO.
Too bad you don’t know that.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

H: The truth is right there in front of you, and you are too blinded by your ignorant partisanship to see it.  I pity you.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

DNC Filibuster, because we all know that these two compainies are shelling out millions to the DNC. Obama has recieved a lot of it in three years.

goon on September 17, 2008 at 09:52 am

Who sponsored said legislation? When did this filibuster occur?

Woof: As a leftie, of course you are ignorant on the matter of value creation; you confuse it with possessions.  Another sad victim of Marx’s lies.

robert108 on September 17, 2008 at 10:19 am

Woof is correct, and you sir are mistaken. Value created in the last few years has and or is evaporating rapidly. This paper value is not worth the ink that was used to write it with. However the real wealth (the possetions) is alive, well and more than likely out of reach of the authorities (tax and otherwise).
You are a said victim of lying pseudocapitalists.
Now go ply your propaganda to some idiot cons/neocons and repubs.

The truth is right there in front of you, and you are too blinded by your ignorant partisanship to see it.  I pity you.

What truth Robert?  The truth that the blacks, browns and Asians are responsible for this mess we are in? 

Racist scum.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Woof is correct, and you sir are mistaken. Value created in the last few years has and or is evaporating rapidly. This paper value is not worth the ink that was used to write it with. However the real wealth (the possetions) is alive, well and more than likely out of reach of the authorities (tax and otherwise).
You are a said victim of lying pseudocapitalists.
Now go ply your propaganda to some idiot cons/neocons and repubs.

Except the theory of ficticious capital isn’t relevant here. Marx was talking about the futures market with this rather silly term. We’re talking about debt and loans.

The term is meaningless in this debate.

It’s all political bullshit. Liberals (and Robert108) lie and spin and twist and obscure and distract and cheat to protect their guys and hurt the opposing team. It’s like wrestling. They distract the ref while their team mate hits you with a chair. There’s no rule they won’t break, no law they won’t skirt, no crime they won’t forgive as long as they can win.

The truth that the blacks, browns and Asians are
responsible for this mess we are in?

That’s your bullshit, H.  Forcing lenders to make bad loans, for social engineering purposes, then “guaranteeing” them by promising eventual govt bailout is the problem.  The only racism here is the Dem insistence on buying votes by playing the racist victim card.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The term is meaningless in this debate.

Kenny: Consider the source.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I am not talking about fucking Marx. I am talking about real life.
Your post is meaningless in this debate.

Forcing lenders to make bad loans, for social engineering purposes, then “guaranteeing” them by promising eventual govt bailout is the problem.

Robert,

You argue that the Fair Housing Act forced people to give loans to blacks with bad credit, then you argue that those loans are causing the problem today.

The bad loans went to everyone, include many, if not more whites.

Stop being a racist scum.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

You argue that the Fair Housing Act forced people to give loans to blacks with bad credit, then you argue that those loans are causing the problem today.

You lie again; the Fair Housing Act justified meddling in the housing market for “civil rights” reasons.  It enabled later legislation that established racial quotas for home loans for social engineering purposes, specifically “compensating for past misdeeds” in not loaning money to people who couldn’t pay it back.  The lie was that they had bad credit due to racism, and to the “racist history” of the US.  More racist lies from the Dems, who need to play the race card to win elections.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Several years ago, banks had a practice of not selling standard mortgages to geographic areas which had a history of default.  Those purchasing homes in these areas were required to get mortgages which had protections to reduce the likelihood of default, such as lower LTV ratios and higher down payments.

The lefties dubbed this practice “redlining” and outlawed it because the areas with high defaults happened to have higher minority populations.  The left brought race into the issue.

After the changes, all borrower were able to take out standard mortgages, regardless of their ability to pay them back - hence the current problems.

Affirmative action lending.  Typical Dem racial politics.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

FKing Marx
Fictitious capital is a concept used by Karl Marx in his critique of political economy. It is introduced in the third volume of Capital.[1]

Fictitious capital could be defined as a capitalisation on property ownership. Such ownership is real and legally enforced, as are the profits made from it. But the capital involved is fictitious; it is “money that is thrown into circulation as capital without any material basis in commodities or productive activity”.[2] Fictitious capital could also be defined as “tradeable paper claims to wealth”, although tangible assets may themselves under certain conditions also be vastly inflated in price.[3]

If The Shoe Falls Apart, Get Taxpayers To Pay For Them

More Marxist Big Lies.  The problem stems from the Marxist “equal outcome” beliefs of the Dem Party.  Poor people are not “entitled” to take out loans they can’t pay back, except under the Dem social engineering bullshit.  Pure Marxism, with predictable results.  Every Marxist regime destroys capital formation, which kills economic growth, and requires imperialism to stay afloat.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Marx’s faulty premises kept him from being able to understand either the true nature of capital or the creation of value by applying capital to labor.  Marx was stuck in the medieval mindset of thinking debt was evil.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I am not talking about fucking Marx. I am talking about real life.
Your post is meaningless in this debate.

I have seen my wealth expand this year over last. As have most people. Those in default on loans they couldn’t afford may seem like a huge number, but it’s around 3% of all homeowners. Which means 97% of homeowners are doing fine.

The housing market was artificially high due to leftist housing schemes to simultaneously drive housing prices through the roof…and to punish banks that refused to give out loans that they knew the borrower would never repay. Housing prices dropping back to where they should be will be a boon to people who have been responsible and saved money.

Ellinas: all emotion, no substance.

It’s all political bullshit. Liberals (and Robert108) lie and spin and twist and obscure and distract and cheat to protect their guys and hurt the opposing team. It’s like wrestling. They distract the ref while their team mate hits you with a chair. There’s no rule they won’t break, no law they won’t skirt, no crime they won’t forgive as long as they can win.

Robert,
You argue that the Fair Housing Act forced people to give loans to blacks with bad credit, then you argue that those loans are causing the problem today.

The idea of racist banks that give out racist loans or give out no loans at all to people of color is a common theme in leftist thought. If a bank refuses to give out loans to an area of high default, and that area is primarily (50% +1) black, then, ipso facto, IT MUST BE RACIST! Such rhetoric has not gone away btw:

http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2008/02/28/study_finds_minorities_paid_more_for_loans/

After about 15 paragraphs of how blacks and hispanics are put upon, we finally get to the money quote…buried well into the article, long after people have come to the conclusion that America is unfair…

The federal data do not include significant information about a borrower’s financial circumstances, such as savings, debts, and credit history. The lending industry argues that makes it impossible to conclude that disparities are the result of discrimination by lenders, rather than economic circumstances. Major industry trade groups oppose reporting that data, calling it an unnecessary burden.

So it doesn’t include any of the relevant data….just colors and percentages. The fun part is, the article still casts aspersions, with the “the lenders say this doesn’t give the whole picture”. Well, they’re right. It DOESN’T give the whole picture.

The banks as racists meme is old, and has been used for a lot of governmental meddling. And, like most governmental meddling, it has had negative effects on the economy.

It’s all political bullshit. Liberals (and Robert108) lie and spin and twist and obscure and distract and cheat to protect their guys and hurt the opposing team. It’s like wrestling. They distract the ref while their team mate hits you with a chair. There’s no rule they won’t break, no law they won’t skirt, no crime they won’t forgive as long as they can win.

You’re preaching to the choir, bud!  The racism here is in the Dem Party, which plays the race card to remain politically viable.  The Fair Housing Act did not directly mandate affirmative action loans; it simply established social engineering in the housing market as a part of the “civil rights” movement.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

President Bush Wanted To Fix Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac In 2003, Democrats Didn’t

Wasnt GWB and congressional GOP in full control in ‘03? I dont remember any battle in congress over this. Maybe Bush wanted to fix it, but he certainly didnt invest any political capital in it, or the rubber stamping congress in ‘03 would have gladly sent him a bill. Its stupid to simply blame dems here. They were the minority at the time. What Bush wanted, Bush got. The neo-cons didnt want to fix anything at the time. They were to busy lying about weapons of mass destruction and building the “coalition of the willing”, and pissing off most of the world. In 2003 we invaded Iraq and we indicted Martha Stewart. No one seemed interested in much else at the time. Bush wanted to fix them….if he had wanted to, he would have.

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

How about a look at the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA)(1975), which requires all manner of tedious, and largely irrelevant reporting to the federal government by companies engaged in the origination and sale of home mortgages.

According to Wikipedia, who description is unusually accurate and succinct,

HMDA data can be used to identify probable housing discrimination in various ways:

•  If an institution turns down a disproportionate percentage of applications by certain races (e.g. African Americans), ethnicities (e.g. Hispanics) or genders (typically women) then there is reason to suspect that the institution may be discriminating against these classes of borrowers by unfairly denying them credit. Such discrimination is illegal in the United States.

•  If an institution has a disproportionately low percentage of applications by certain races (e.g. African Americans), ethnicities (e.g. Hispanics) or genders (typically women) then there is reason to suspect that the institution may be discriminating against these classes of borrowers by unfairly discouraging them from applying for mortgage loans. Such discrimination is illegal in the United States.

•  If an institution has a disproportionately low percentage of applications from certain areas, compared to areas immediately surrounding the area in question, then there is reason to suspect that the institution is engaging in redlining.

•  If there is a disproportionate prevalence of high-interest loans to certain classes of borrowers (e.g., Hispanics or women) then there is a reason to suspect that the institution is engaging in price discrimination.

Those with keen perception skills will notice that what’s missing, here, or in the legislation itself, is any meaningful discussion of credit.  In fact, one might almost think that credit scores and credit history are irrelevant to the process of getting a mortgage loan.  Not surprisingly, the same is true for the Pulitzer Prize winning article on racial disparities in mortgage lending, as well as the Boston.com article cited above.  If credit scores are considered, the inconvenient truth is that a higher percentage of African-Americans have lower scores relative to their percent of the overall population, just as a far higher percentage of Asian-Americans have higher scores.

I’m not sure why this is so.  The reasons are probably cultural… much like the reasons why blacks have a much higher high school dropout rate, higher crime rate, and a higher rate of illegitimate births as well.

I know of no studies that confirm this, which is not surprising given the privacy issues and the fact that such a study would be considered an outrage to the race-baiters, poverty pimps, and self-righteous socialists on the Left.  But in nearly 25 years in the industry, I know of no one with any serious mortgage/credit experience that would honestly say differently.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

they are slowly socializing the whole schmang… through the back door.

It started with the PR campaign on the S&L’s and wiping them out into banks. next will be the banks taken over to protect the depositors, and we’ll end up with a huge FEDERAL ownership of the business.

Just how do you think they increase the often mentioned money supply? No, they don’t throw cash out in the streets, they prime the pump at the discount window for LOANS, and these agencies let er rip by packaging the paper and spinning it all around again.

It was a house of cards and had to fail and it’s not over yet. Frankly, I’m surprised it’s taken this long. The Federal Government will be the lenders forevermore, and the heal care providers as well, and who knows, may even be making our CARS!

Typical right wing neo-con propaganda against the democrats… never mind the fact the republicans controlled both the house and senate in 2002 and 2004 by a significant majority.

The neo-cons need to get their heads out of their backsides and leave it to the true conservatives instead of playing the lying blame game that rove started.

The lying and misinformation game the neo-cons insist on playing these days hurts the party and peoples trust in conservative values far more than anything the liberals could hope to do.

The raw numbers for 2002/2004 senate and house were:

House 2002:229(r)/204(d) 2004:232(r)/202(d)
Senate 2002:51(r)/48(d) 2004:55(r)/44(d)

Additionally, the plan purposed by president bush was filled with red tape and would have not taken effect in time to prevent the current situation.

If the republican party wants to salvage much of a future in the next 20 years they had better turn back to their conservative roots instead of being the untruthful lying hypocritical backstabbing backbiting party of petty neo-cons they’ve become since Regan.  I have far more respect for liberals than I do for neo-cons, because at least they’re upfront with what they’re supporting and why… you can’t trust a neo-con the distance you can throw them upwind in a hurricane.

To the neo-con above with the out of context Obama quote:

If you want to keep obama from being elected perhaps, find a real issue with his real policies instead of making up half truths.  You’re hurting traditional conservatives and their values more than helping them by spouting neo-con lies, here’s the quote your out of context blurb refers to:

Actual quote from “The Audacity of Hope” [pg. 261]: Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction. “

I’m not Jewish, and have been a conservative since before you were born, in all probability.  You just humiliate yourself with your ignorant babble.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I’m not Jewish

bobert thinks only Jews are neo-cons.
Read the thread bobert.

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

Oh no. Not the Neo-Con/Jew argument again! Save us all the pain. Stop now.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Stop now.

Good advice for you, Sparkie.  When lefties lie, I smack them with the truth.  Neocon(neo is latin for new) are former lefties who have seen the light and have become conservatives.  Most of them are Jewish.  That’s the truth; any moron who tries to argue with that is simply showing ignorance of the facts.  Lying lefties have tried to smear people who have smartened up and have left their plantation by redefining the word with all sorts of lying smears.
You idiots have swallowed the leftie KoolAid, and simply parrot what your handlers tell you, without thinking.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

A partial list of neo-cons who have put us where we are today. I think Scooter Libby and Joe Lieberman are the only jews among them. 

GWB, Cheney, John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Lewis’Scooter’Libby, Condoleeza Rice, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, James Woolsey, Gary Bauer, John Ashcroft, Richard Armitage, Bill Bennett, just to name a few.
bobert, your stupidity always entertains me. Keep up the good work nitwit. You are a neo-con and you dont even know it. Obtuse and old is no way to go through life son.

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/palins_approval_rating_in_the_teens#c342316
bobert,
Try this thread on for size why dont ya.

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

bu the way bobert, how was your doctors appointment today? I hope your not ill. Well, ill mannered is your norm, but I mean your health. After all you are old and your decrepitude is legendary.

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

Ignore Robert, Woof, he thinks the loan problem in America is all the blacks and brownies fault.

Typical lib trying to play the race card!

A partial list of neo-cons who have put us where we are today. I think Scooter Libby and Joe Lieberman are the only jews among them.

Lieberman gets no love nowadays.  Shows what happens when you stop kissing the dems’ asses after they screw you!

Companies shouldn’t go to bed with the government because the government has herpes.  You can try your whole life but you’ll never get away from that one night.

Yeah, the Dems purged Lieberman for having one diverse view, and they purged Zell Miller for crossing the aisle in the spirit of bipartisanship.  Hypocrites.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The Dems don’t allow disention in the ranks on any issue but yet they claim that they reach across the aisle.  Bipartisanship, yeah right…

Companies shouldn’t go to bed with the government because the government has herpes.  You can try your whole life but you’ll never get away from that one night.

Deflect all you like fella’s. the fact remains….this list of neocons are the power base of the GOP. If this is what your party is offering, your doomed to obscurity.
While I refrained from calling MC a neocon, he does share many of these wierd utopian concepts that have brought the GOP to its knees in recent years. If the neocons get thier hands on Palin, you conservatives will be responsible for the continues slide of you party by ignoring your core values in favor of having the illusion of power. This is not about the dems. They have thier own set of problems. This is about where the GOP is headed, and what you true conservative types can do to stop it. The question is, do you have the power and the ideas, and do you have the stomach to lose on principal instead of win and be the lapdogs and fools for the neocons again…......

When knobert comes-a-ball-sniffin, just swat him away like you would any other stray mutt.

Ellinas wrote:

“It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius. “

Ah, genius, the bill never got out of Committee!  The Committe was chaired by a Republican, AND all that was needed to get it out of committee was a majority,  Had nothing to do with 60 votes.  Do some real research first.

And may I ask what stopped the Republican controlled senate and house from taking action even if the democrats did not want to?

It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius.

Rob on September 17, 2008 at 08:45 am

Hello??? What Republican controlled House and Senate.  Where have you been? It’s the past 2 years that the Dems have been in charge of both houses that this economy has gone in the dumper. And about Pelosi’s cleaning up corruption? Let me say just 2 words: “CHARLIE RANGEL”!!! I’m just sayin….

CJBerg on September 17, 2008 at 08:49 am

It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius.

ellinas on September 17, 2008 at 09:07 am

Ellinas wrote:

“It takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, genius. “

Ah, genius, the bill never got out of Committee!  The Committe was chaired by a Republican, AND all that was needed to get it out of committee was a majority, Had nothing to do with 60 votes.  Do some real research first.

mels on September 23, 2008 at 05:23 pm

mels do me a favor and direct your fire elsewere.

And may I ask, how many votes the Repubs could have mustered for reform?
Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go around.

Since the Republicans had 50 seats and the Dems had 50 seats in the 107th congress in 2003, I’m pretty sure, if you do the math, it would be kind of hard to get 60 votes.

Facts are facts no matter what the media tries to tell you