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Sunday, June 04, 2006

Pre-Judging

Here are next week's Time and Newsweek covers (via Hot Air):

time-newsweek.jpg


The investigation into the Haditha incident is not yet complete and no charges related to the incident have been filed yet.

I guess the folks at Time and Newsweek decided that they don't need trivial things like investigations and trials before assigning guilt.

And then there's this from a New York Times editorial:

So far, nothing in President Bush’s repeated statements on the issue offers any real assurance that the White House and the Pentagon will not once again try to protect the most senior military and political ranks from proper accountability. This is the pattern that this administration has repeatedly followed in the past — in the torture scandal at Abu Ghraib, in the beating deaths of prisoners at Bagram air base in Afghanistan and in the serial abuses of justice and constitutional principle at Guantánamo Bay.

The overwhelming majority of American troops in Iraq are dedicated military professionals, doing their best to behave correctly under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Their good name requires a serious inquiry, not another deflection of blame to the lowest-ranking troops on the scene.


That's something akin to asking a man if he's stopped beating his wife yet, isn't it? What the Times is calling for is someone big in the Bush administration to "plead guilty" to the killings at Haditha, which the Times has already decided is all the fault of Americans, they much like Time and Newsweek not needing the benefit of an investigation or trial.

What is astounding here is the assumption the Times make in calling for the head of a Bush administration big-wig. Even if the Marines did kill those civilians in Haditha, how is that the fault of upper command? They aren't the result of administration policy or orders from the chain of command. They are (if, again, the Marines did kill those people) the result of some soldiers snapping and making a poor decision.

We don't arrest the Postmaster General when some disgruntled letter sorter opens fire on his/her co-workers with a machine gun, and we don't hold the Secretary of Defense responsible for crimes committed by soldiers of their own volition.

All of the political axe-grinding surrounding Haditha is getting a little sickening. The incident is, at most, a rare black mark on the proud tradition of honorable service from 99% of our soldiers. It is an aberration, yet the left/media sees it as more. They see it as a weapon to use against a President and a set of foreign policies they hate. That they would politicize the issue, at the expense of the reputation of our troops, even to the point of assigning guilt before the accused are even formally charged (before an investigation into the matter has even been completed) is just plain disgusting.

Comments

Avatar for diane

Now who was it that prejudged Saddam’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’?  Who was it that sent us into a bloody immoral war based on wrong prejudgements?

Oyeah....Dufus.


The incident is, at most, a rare black mark on the proud tradition of honorable service from 99% of our soldiers. It is an aberration
.

Not according to the leadership in Iraq.  The aberration is they are starting to get caught because other Marines or reporters or civilians are getting them on film. 

It’s disgusting all right, but not for the reasons you’re disgusted.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 02:19 pm
Avatar for diane

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14728788.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

By Nancy A. Youssef
Knight Ridder Newspapers

AL HAMDANIA, Iraq -

On Thursday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki said that American violence against Iraqi civilians had become almost habitual. “We cannot forgive the violations of the dignity of the Iraqi people,” al Maliki said.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 02:27 pm
Avatar for diane

Did anyone see Fraulein Rice this a.m.?  Trying to dig the administration out of the deep pit of poo-poo?  Fraulein RiceCake said that she has talked to Maliki and, hey folks, basically the guys wants us there.

Hahahahahahaa.  Frddddddddddddaulein, get another script, baby.  This one’s wearin’ thin.

Only the nutcases still believe a word you and NeoReichsfuror Dufus, Herr Cheney, and Herr Rumsfeld say.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 02:30 pm
Avatar for diane

HAVEN’T YOU WARMONGERING PEOPLE GOT YOUR POUND OF FLESH YET FOR 9/11????????????…

P.S.  Iraq had nothing to do with it.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 02:37 pm
Avatar for Puzzlefeet

Diane, please please stop posting such long articles.  I have long stopped reading them and you are losing me as a reader.  I would much rather have comments with links to the article so I can go there and read.  Other wise I just scroll down.

Just a friendly criticism, Ok?

Puzzlefeet on June 4, 2006 at 02:41 pm
Avatar for diane

Okay, Puzzlefeet.  My pleasure.  smile

diane on June 4, 2006 at 03:10 pm
Avatar for diane

2006: A CATALOGUE OF ALLEGED US ATROCITIES

http://www.sundayherald.com/56109

“READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE”.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 03:12 pm
Avatar for Puzzlefeet

Thank you, Diane.

Puzzlefeet on June 4, 2006 at 03:21 pm
Avatar for diane

Puzzlefeet, I would do anything you ask.  I respect you alot from what I’ve read here.

I’ve been in a Catch 22.  Accused of throwing out my own opinions without basis, of not being able to throw out my own opinions, of not pasting enough and making it look deceptive and one-sided, of pasting too much and running afoul of copyright laws.

I am going to follow your advice.  An opinion or statement, along with the link and a paragraph or two.

diane on June 4, 2006 at 03:33 pm
Avatar for Bat One

I know this isn’t exactly the first time the question has arisen… nor the tenth… but reading from the original post down through all the comments I can’t help wondering whether this thread is about the liberal media once again pre-judging the Marines at Haditha, or is it once again, tediously, all about Diane?

Bat One on June 5, 2006 at 06:23 am
Avatar for Don Myers

Anyone with a brain can see that TIME is part of the right-wing corporate media.

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/search_results?qstring=time+magazine

Don Myers on June 5, 2006 at 06:36 am
Avatar for Rodney Graves

Heh,

Dan Simmons has the number of these folks…

One doesn’t have to read William James to understand the terrible power and ubiquity of ”The Will to Believe.” In Kurt Vonnegut’s novel The Sirens of Titan, the alien who is stranded on that distant moon and watching Earth through his telescopes is stranded precisely because his spaceship ran out of the most powerful fuel in the galaxy—UWTB—the Universal Will to Believe.

The transformative beliefs of the 20th Century that destroyed the Sonnenschein family’s future (and the Sonnenschein family itself)—fascism, German National Socialism, and Communism—could all be correctly described as collective fantasies that empowered millions of human beings through their collective and individual will to believe.

Lee Harris continues this discussion of groups that seem to rise ”out of nowhere” (but which are actually imbedded deep in the cultural and religious and political underpinnings of the host society) and quickly, by historical standards of time, become compelling fantasy ideologies that sweep millions (or billions) into their folds and then often sweep the world into war—

In even the most casual survey of history, one is repeatedly struck by the fact that certain groups do not seem to have the knack for realistic appraisal of themselves: they seem simply incapable of seeing themselves as others see them or of understanding why other groups react to them the way they do. A fantasy ideology is one that seizes the opportunity offered by such a lack of realism in a political group and makes the most of it. This it is able to do through symbols and rituals, all of which are designed to permit the members of the political group to indulge in a kind of fantasy role-playing. Classical examples of this are easy to find: the Jacobin fantasy of reviving the Roman Republic; Mussolini’s fantasy of reviving the Roman Empire; Hitler’s fantasy of reviving German paganism in the thousand-year Reich.

Added to that—reads the text and subtext of the books I reported on in the April Message—is the current transformative-belief fantasy-ideology of resurgent Wahaabist radical Islam with its dream of reinstating the global Caliphate and its need for martyrs and martyrdom as instruments of that magical transformative belief.

When tied in with the blindfold of press innacuracy, only a fool would rush to judgment on the events of Haditha.

And the fools have.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 09:13 am
Avatar for LoadTheMule

Rodney,

You have got to stop being so rational.  You run the risk of not fitting in around here.

Regards…

LoadTheMule on June 5, 2006 at 09:24 am
Avatar for robert108

Yes, Rodney, try to be more emotionally reactive.

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 09:41 am
Avatar for diane

Rodney, have you heard of the Book of Martyrs in Christianity?  Have you not heard that the rewards of dying as a martyr in Christianity are greater?  Did you not know that Christians refused to obey the government before God?

Martyrdom is an old Christian foundation.  Being willing to die for your beliefs.

But you folks like to pick out a small part of Islam willing to die for their beliefs and make them seem aberrant to religious traditions.

Neoconservatism is the aberrance of what American politics has been.  The NeoCons are the most dangerous mainstream subgroup to have arisen in the history of our country.

They are the nutcases willing not only to die ‘for God and country’ (an aberration in itself) but to take the lives of innocent civilians who never attacked or invaded them to begin with, with no valid reasons and no justification.

They are a menace to the world and to America.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 10:54 am
Avatar for diane

I know this isn’t exactly the first time the question has arisen… nor the tenth… but reading from the original post down through all the comments I can’t help wondering whether this thread is about the liberal media once again pre-judging the Marines at Haditha, or is it once again, tediously, all about Diane?

Bat One on June 5, 2006 at 9:22 AM

Grow up.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 10:56 am
Avatar for Rodney Graves

Diane Dear,

You really should have read the whole thing… Just as you should have reserved judgment until more of the facts were out…

Lee Harris’s essential point—not just about the current state of Islam but about all such fantasy-ideologies past and present, (whether the fantasy arises from a religious or a political will to believe, or, as in the case of Islam, from both at once)—is that the essential and central ingredient of any transformative belief is that other people must serve as means to a greater transformative end. In this real sense, such collective fantasies as Italian fascism, Soviet Communism, German Nazism, and Wahaabist Islam are required to violate (or ignore) the greatest single advance in humanism and Western thought (including Christian Western thought)—i.e. Martin Buber’s explication of the I-Thou relationship. (Simply put, that human beings must never be used as a means to an end, but must always be treated as ends unto themselves.)

But it is informative to the antithesis of Dan’s point paraded in proud ignorance once again.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 11:05 am
Avatar for diane

(Simply put, that human beings must never be used as a means to an end, but must always be treated as ends unto themselves.)

Well, please call Dufus today at the Oval Office and explain this to him, Rodneykins.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 11:12 am
Avatar for robert108

"Martyrdom is an old Christian foundation. Being willing to die for your beliefs...”

The operative word here is “old”.  Christians woke up from that one, oh, about five hundred years ago, give or take.  A lot of Catholic martyrs, btw, were killed for their beliefs, not in some act of explosive immolation, like the jihadis of today.  The Catholic martyrs didn’t think it was cool to kill a lot of other innocent people in their martyrdom, like is the rage with present-day jihadis.  Christianity has never taught to “kill all the infidels” either.  See the differences?

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 11:33 am
Avatar for diane

Christian teaching on martrydom has never changed, Robert.

And what about those ‘christian’ Crusaders, eh?

Most Muslims disagree vehemently with suicide missions and ‘jihad’ being interpreted ‘killing the infidels’, but you folks want to portray it as though they do, which is highly hypocritical of you.

Never forget that the first suicide mission killing was done by an Israelite judge and Nazarite, Samson.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 11:46 am
Avatar for LoadTheMule

Most Muslims disagree vehemently with suicide missions and ‘jihad’ being interpreted ‘killing the infidels’

And you know this how, diane?  Devination?  Mind-reading?  Please find me more than a bare handul of Muslim clerics who have spoken out against the radical fundamentalists.

And for the love of God, please point out what Samson has to do with current day jihadists.  Are you seriously contending there is a causal link between them?

Regards…

LoadTheMule on June 5, 2006 at 11:58 am
Avatar for robert108

The Crusaders mission was to retake the Holy Land from the murdering Islamic invaders.  The Crusaders were not martyrs, at least not intentionally.  They were warriors.
I would agree with your statement that began “Most Muslims...” if their voice could be heard above the suicide bombers in public places, and if they made any real efforts to police their own in this regard.  Absent that, it’s just another lie.
BTW, I never said the teaching of martyrdom has changed; the practice has changed, and that is all the difference between the Christians of today and the jihadis of today.  Didn’t you understand that?  The Christian teaching of martyrdom has never included taking others with you, like women and children on schoolbuses or sitting in an outdoor restaurant.  It has always been about the strength of belief of the individual.  That is the difference.

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 11:58 am
Avatar for The Whistler

It doesn’t seem much to get the residents on the mideast to protest.  You’d think if they violently disagreed with the jihadists they’d make that known.

Also there is some polling that shows the exact opposite.

The Whistler on June 5, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Avatar for Rodney Graves

Diane Dear,

I’d respond directly, but Dan has already done so and more eloquently than I could (I warned you you should read it before further comment, but I would be lying if I denied the pleasure of seeing you fall into the very traps he describes):

But to compare 21st Century Christianity around the world to the realities of radical and militant Islam, as dozens did on our forum and elsewhere, or to compare President George W. Bush to Iran’s President Ahmadenijad—to say that “Bush is worse” because of his Christian faith—is insane.

Even while saying that the time for religious fundamentalism is over everywhere, that it is a luxury we can no longer afford, Sam Harris acknowledges that Christianity has so incorporated tolerance into its faith and practice that the religion has become almost synonymous with tolerance. Perhaps more importantly, Christianity and humanist Enlightenment have been in a long, co-evolutionary spiral for so many centuries now that in most cases in Christian and post-Christian societies and in their institutions—science, free press, the courts, education systems, political systems—the secular and the religious remain essentially separate yet supportive.

Christianity remains a “transformative belief,” but the transformation—as in the case of President George W. Bush, so frequently mocked by the sophisticated—is a private and internal transformation. It tends to breed more tolerance, not less. And I’ve been informed on good authority that even the strongest transformational-belief element in Christian theology required the blood of only one martyr—and that he was crucified long ago.

And he summed the points nicely earlier on:

But to compare 21st Century Christianity around the world to the realities of radical and militant Islam, as dozens did on our forum and elsewhere, or to compare President George W. Bush to Iran’s President Ahmadenijad—to say that “Bush is worse” because of his Christian faith—is insane.

Amen.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 12:11 pm
Avatar for questionmark

Is it so much better then, to fight a war in name of democracy? Isn’t this political ideology being exploited just as a religion?
And what is the difference between war and terrorism? It seems to me that only poeple who can’t afford to win a war would resort to terrorism. Does that make the latter so much more terrible and the former righteous?

questionmark on June 5, 2006 at 01:25 pm
Avatar for robert108

q:  If you don’t already know it, one of the leading tactics of terrorism is to hide among the civilians, so that they are a virtual shield.  There is also the wholesale killing of civilians as a primary tactic, not as collateral damage.  Example: Palestinian suicide bombers.  BTW, the “Palestinians” are more numerous than the Israelis, and have more land.  They are “poor and downtrodden” by cultural and religious choice.  Israel has chosen to be prosperous and successful.

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 01:34 pm
Avatar for Rodney Graves

Question Mark,

If you do not already know the answers to the questions you pose you are a moral embicile.

But we thank you for re-inforcing Dan Simmons point so eloquently, along with our own village idiot.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 01:44 pm
Avatar for al

"The CRUSADERS were warriors”
“Israel has “CHOSEN” to be rich and prosperous”

My oh my,does it get any better than this? And this is NOT a comedy blog! One can only assume he actually believes the puke he types! As for “I guess the folks at TIME and NEWSWEEK decided they don’t need trivial things like investigations before assigning guilt”

Hello? Ever been to planet earth? More likely Bradenton,Fla? Ya know,Terri Schiavo? She wants water? She is talking to the Schindlers and all the other religious loonie tunes who were going in and out of her room! Uh oh,here comes the coroner,damn science and history with their FACTS again! They keep getting in YOUR way and spoiling your cartoons and fairy tales. Oh well don’t panic you still have 5 more months until Novemeber 7th so enjoy it and keep telling more stories,they are actually quite amusing and funny!
THE CRUSADERS WERE WARRIORS! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and Cardinal Law was misunderstood over in Boston,poor guy.

al on June 5, 2006 at 03:16 pm
Avatar for robert108

The loony left, in full scream.

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 03:21 pm
Avatar for Rodney Graves

robert108

Indeed…

The loony left, in full scream.

And not matter how loud they scream,

Iraq is still not Vietnam

Haditha is not My Lai

And neither Haditha nor My Lai rise to within two orders of magnitude of the attrocities at Hue City or Saddam era Iraq.

I question not only their Patriotism, but their sanity as well.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 03:37 pm
Avatar for diane

Rodneykins, I could care less what Dan’s opinion is.

People here claim this is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles, and the President tonight will push a Christian agenda onto the country’s constitution if he is able to.

So, for you not to compare ‘christianity’ today as represented by this country slaughter Muslims thousands of miles from our shores is not only stupid, it is naive.

Rodneykins, my advice for you:  Stop trying to sound intelligent.  It is a thin facade for your less than high IQ and your less than cutting wit.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 04:10 pm
Avatar for diane

And this is NOT a comedy blog! One can only assume he actually believes the puke he types!

Actually, it IS a comedy blog, and yes, he actually does.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 04:11 pm
Avatar for diane

Christianity remains a “transformative belief,” but the transformation—as in the case of President George W. Bush, so frequently mocked by the sophisticated—is a private and internal transformation.

“You’ll know them by their fruit.”

It tends to breed more tolerance, not less.

Tonight Mr. Bush pushes a Constitution ban on gay marriage.

And I’ve been informed on good authority that even the strongest transformational-belief element in Christian theology required the blood of only one martyr—and that he was crucified long ago.

Peter, Paul, James, Stephen, the martyrs of Hebrews 11, etc., etc., etc., etc..........

The aforementioned ‘Crusades’ (’christian’ little ‘c’wink.

You live in a dreamworld of your own making, Rodneykins.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 04:51 pm
Avatar for realitybasedbob
realitybasedbob on June 5, 2006 at 04:53 pm
Avatar for diane

Jesus’ blood was the only sacrifice needed for sin, but martyrdom has been a tradition of the church and continues to be so today.  And will in the future:  Read John’s Revelation of Jesus Christ.

P.S.  Rodneykins:  We have your number as well.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 04:53 pm
Avatar for diane

C’mon, rbb, you can’t blame God for nutcases.
I don’t blame Him for these guys.  They’re making their own decisions.  And the worst part is, like Bush, they seem to want to put God’s stamp of approval on their own agendas.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 04:59 pm
Avatar for Jesse Lackman

Everyone;

re: al-Haditha

read,

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005321.htm

Jesse Lackman on June 5, 2006 at 05:47 pm
Avatar for Jesse Lackman

Woah!

I’ll stop now, weird this comments section will take html

Jesse Lackman on June 5, 2006 at 05:53 pm
Avatar for robert108

"Tonight Mr. Bush pushes a Constitution ban on gay marriage.”

That’s a big lie.  There is no “ban” on something that doesn’t exist.  The TMA is a codification of real marriage, and doesn’t “ban” anything.  The majority supports it by a wide margin.  Traditional marriage, that is.

robert108 on June 5, 2006 at 06:11 pm
Avatar for realitybasedbob

R, the little pinwheel on top is suppose to spin, not guy wearing it.

realitybasedbob on June 5, 2006 at 06:15 pm
Avatar for Rodney Graves

I’ll keep this simple so Diane and realitybased boob can keep up.

The spin here is from the folks rushing to judgment in matters they no naught of.

The lackwit, treasonous, insane, left.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 08:24 pm
Avatar for likwidshoe

diane spews, Now who was it that prejudged Saddam’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’?

Where was the “prejudging”?

Who was it that sent us into a bloody immoral war based on wrong prejudgements?

Spreading freedom = “immoral”. And again - what “wrong prejudgements”?

Oyeah....Dufus.

Dufus diane?

Don Myers spews, Anyone with a brain can see that TIME is part of the right-wing corporate media.

Anyone with a brain can see that you are avoiding the topic.

likwidshoe on June 5, 2006 at 08:29 pm
Avatar for diane

Haditha is the topic.  The slaughter of even little children, shot in the head allegedly by U.S. Marines.

********************

I’ll keep this simple so Diane and realitybased boob can keep up.

The spin here is from the folks rushing to judgment in matters they no naught of.

The lackwit, treasonous, insane, left.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 11:24 PM

Keep it simple for yourself, you little pseudo-intellectual twerp.

And quit writing in Olde English, willya?  It’s just plain stupid.  “naught”....sheesh, what a bimbo.

Colin Powell’s darkest moment.  No WMD’s.
Rush to jugement.  PNAC agenda to move on.

You people don’t want to see.  You want to be wilfully blind and, so....you are.

diane on June 5, 2006 at 09:49 pm
Avatar for Jesse Lackman

Yes Diane, Haditha is the topic. So did you read the link I provided that calls into question if it was US troops that did the killing? Since it seems you did not read it, here it is again;

UK TIMES SMEARS OUR MARINES (UPDATED WITH RESPONSE)

Of course those with severe cases of psychomyopia psychoglaucoma probably will not comprehend there is a slight possibility US troops did not do the killing because of a related psychosis the psychosis of self-rightousness. The psychosis of self-rightousness is so wonderful - you are always right!!

Ain’t that right, Diane?

Jesse Lackman on June 6, 2006 at 12:09 am
Avatar for Rodney Graves

And there you have them…

The lackwit, loud, lunatic left.  The treasonous worms who deal only in anti-americanism and vitriol.

At least there won’t be a follow on generation of our own worst offenders.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2006 at 05:06 am
Avatar for questionmark

The president of Iraq, the president of a government that desperately needs support from the US, has asked US Military to stop killing his people. I’m sure it makes a lot of sense for a man in his situation to tell such lies. 
“In even the most casual survey of history, one is repeatedly struck by the fact that certain groups do not seem to have the knack for realistic appraisal of themselves: they seem simply incapable of seeing themselves as others see them or of understanding why other groups react to them the way they do.”

This sounds familiar. This sounds like people who expect the Iraqis to receive our soldiers like saviors, like people who believe it is right to kill others for ideologies like “democracy” and “freedom of speech,” like people who cannot understand why the US is hated. To those people: no, they do not hate your freedom, just as perhaps you would not hate the Scandinavians for having a higher standard of living. They hate the fact that you have the power to determine how they should live. You, just like them, believe ONLY that your way of forming a society is the ONLY right way. You, just like them, want to impose your standard of morality on other people. The only difference is that you can deliver bombs with airplanes. But they can only deliver them with their own lives. 
I still do not see the moral superiority in killing people as “collateral damage,” especially when it is known that such “damages” that cannot be avoid. If the US government thinks that an eye for an eye is the only way to stop terrorism, then let it have a war. But please cut the world savior crap out. It is not just hypocritical. It is inhumane.

questionmark on June 6, 2006 at 08:05 am
Avatar for Rodney Graves

Oh Aptly Self Named Question Mark

What are you quoting in the blockquote, and where are the links which hold what you claim to have been said?

Or to put it at the Diane and realitybasedboob level, “Got Citations?”

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2006 at 08:10 am
Avatar for questionmark

Rodney,
No, I made a mistake with “b-quote” button. I meant to quote you quoting another person. The message should look like this.

“In even the most casual survey of history, one is repeatedly struck by the fact that certain groups do not seem to have the knack for realistic appraisal of themselves: they seem simply incapable of seeing themselves as others see them or of understanding why other groups react to them the way they do.”

This sounds familiar. This sounds like people who expect the Iraqis to receive our soldiers like saviors, like people who believe it is right to kill others for ideologies like “democracy” and “freedom of speech,” like people who cannot understand why the US is hated. To those people: no, they do not hate your freedom, just as perhaps you would not hate the Scandinavians for having a higher standard of living. They hate the fact that you have the power to determine how they should live. You, just like them, believe ONLY that your way of forming a society is the ONLY right way. You, just like them, want to impose your standard of morality on other people. The only difference is that you can deliver bombs with airplanes. But they can only deliver them with their own lives.

questionmark on June 6, 2006 at 08:31 am
Avatar for Rodney Graves

questionablemark,

Where are the cites?

And no.

The United States in general, and I in particular, don’t hold that our society is the only way.  But when a transformative psychosis and it’s apologists starts killing our non-combatants, then yes, we have the moral authority to act in such a manner as to prevent recurrences and reverse the spread.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.  Failute to choose one of the above results in bootprints all over your ass.

Out Here
Rodney Graves

Rodney Graves on June 6, 2006 at 08:40 am
Avatar for Carrick

oh no, bad news...god is dead

That’s what you got from that?  Interesting.

Carrick on June 6, 2006 at 08:53 am
Avatar for questionmark

I am quoting “Rodney Graves on June 5, 2006 at 12:13 PM” quoting “Lee Harris” I believe?
“Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Failute to choose one of the above results in bootprints all over your ass.” That sounds like the shithole we are in. Perhaps there is no alternative than military aggression. And if that is the case, then be happy that we are on the side that is blessed with USD, high technology and real nuclear powers. But do you have to be blessed by god as well? Do you have to argue that your religion is in anyway “more tolerant”? Protecting our own people is good enough a reason to wage a war. Why then does the politicians have to pretend that they are trying to save the people on the other side? (But of course propaganda is a necessary device of war, even in a democratic country.)Though I’d rather hope that these politicians are pretending, than that they truly believe in such a cause. For it was such belief in an ideology that allowed Hitler to massacre with a clear conscience. 
“we have the moral authority to act in such a manner as to prevent recurrences and reverse the spread.” Perhaps we do. But that would be the only moral ground we hold. Even self-defense is not exactly a good enough excuse, since we are at least partly responsible for digging this shit hole. The West cannot escape its responsibility for mutilating the Middle East and inducing this “psychosis,” starting from the imperialistic era all the way up to today. 

questionmark on June 6, 2006 at 09:19 am

Wow, you have a warped view of the Middle East, Heh, oh yeah, the Middle East was not a tribal, medieval society before the West showed up.

No, they were just happy noble savages, living in a perfect utopia!

If anyone ‘mutilated’ the Middle East and induced ‘psychosis’ over there it was the Ottoman Turks.

Ken McCracken on June 6, 2006 at 10:09 am
Avatar for robert108

To all the terrorist-lovers, devil worshippers and God-hating atheists out there:  Happy 666!  Ann Coulter’s book came out today.

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 10:22 am
Avatar for dave

To all the terrorist-lovers, devil worshippers and God-hating atheists out there: Happy 666!

What about atheists who don’t hate God?

dave on June 6, 2006 at 10:34 am
Avatar for questionmark

robert108,
seriously, I can’t imagine someone hating something that he believes not to exist. And, someone that doesn’t believe in god would believe in devil? What kind of understanding do you have of atheism?
If “terrorist-lover” is alluding to my comment, then that would be a really wrong inference reflecting poor reading skill. Unless you define anything that is not blind hatred “love.”
I really was hoping to enter a discussion with people who can think rationally.

questionmark on June 6, 2006 at 10:52 am
Avatar for robert108

dave: I clearly excluded them, thinking mostly of Rob.

?: Me, too.  Have you ever read any of Madlyn Murray O’Hare’s stuff?  I have always been curious about the God-hating atheists myself.  I am not familiar with your writing, so was not commenting about you at all.  I was referring to the terrorist-lovers, as you can easily read.  If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it!

robert108 on June 6, 2006 at 11:00 am
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