Say Anything Blog

What part of ‘please leave’ did the kid not understand when the cops first confronted him?

He deserved what he got.

Stand up or you’ll get tazed again

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

You can take that to the bank.

Heh, his complaining about the Patriot Act is the most uniquely pathetic thing I have heard anyone say in a long long time.

Perhaps the old ways are best…

A lot less hooting and hollering with a properly applied Billy club or blackjack.

The tape as is should be sufficient grounds for a resisting arrest charge at the very least, and should serve as a warning; contempt of cop is painful.

Out Here
Rodney Graves
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Out Here
Rodney G. Graves
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Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

I wish I had a tazer.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I like the fact that by calling him “Little turd” you are really making it clear where you stand on the subject.

On the other hand, as you reported yourself, he was already up and walking towards the door to leave, and that is what the police wanted too, right? So what is there to cooperate with? He is already leaving, why grab him and “escort” him out when he is doing what he was asked to do? Even if “escorting” is part of the requirements, when the guy is on the move, you can just give way and make sure that he actually is leaving without touching him.

I was there. He was not asked repeatedly and refused. He was approached once by the community officer who was checking IDs and told to leave. He started looking for his Bruin card and couldn’t find it. The officer came back and asked him again, and the kid told him that he has forgotten his ID, but he is in the middle of something and he is going to leave in a second. While the community officer got impatient and went out of the room (to get the cops, apparently), the kid started packing and moving towards the door. Then the cops arrived and grabed him. He said “get off me”, but they forced him down and hand-cuffed him (I was behind the crowd then and I did not see this part). Then they told him to get up, but he said “get off me” and then the rest you can also see in the video.

The “refused several times” bit is a UCPD fabrication to justify the community officer’s impatience and calling on the cops. We were all there and he was just a sleepy kid using the CLICC lab and trying to finish up quick so he could leave. No one goes to fucking Powell at 11 o’clock to provoke anyone. It’s on top of the damn hill and quite a way from the dorms and there are better places in the Westwood village to go and raise protests.

I thought you guys are for small government?

“Stand up or you’ll get tazed again”? Sounds like a mafia thug talking, not a police officer.

Whatever happened to dragging people out of buildings?

Ever try to walk after you have gotten tazed? NO?! Do you know how hard it is to even move after those volts flow through the body? Some people can jump right back up, while others are physically incapacitated for a few. Getting tazed gets one light-headed and dizzy.

That being said, this had nothing to do with the Patriot Act. That was just moronic for the kid to say.

And The Whistler? I wish I had a tazer as well. It would have come in handy two weeks ago when the Detroit mafia or police or whatever they want to call themselves (they sure as hell don’t identify themselves) were acting like thugs and abusing their power.

He is already leaving, why grab him and “escort” him out when he is doing what he was asked to do?

How about a person NOT get aggressive when they escort him out.  The kids got no one to blame but himself.

Speaking of stupid were you the guy asking the cop for his badge number while he was in a confrontation with the guy.  That’s stupid, if you’ve got a complaint wait until the situation is resolved.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I don’t understand how you could constue this video against anybody since the video itself is pretty much worthless most of it.  You can HEAR what’s going on, but you can’t really see anything and without being able to see what’s going on you don’t get all the information.

I’ve never heard “stand up or you’re gonna get tazed”, and it does sound a bit odd.  But that alone I dont’ think constitutes police brutality.  Maybe improper tazer training.  Tazers should only be used as if you were using your sidearm IMHO.

I thought you guys are for small government?

We are, but allowing cops the power to protect themselves and enforce order is one of the few justified areas of government power.

But you don’t get to use the “small government” argument until you quit trying to get me to pay for your health care.

No one goes to fucking Powell at 11 o’clock to provoke anyone.

And cops don’t typically taser someone in a room full of college students who hate cops without good reason.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Tazers should only be used as if you were using your sidearm IMHO.

I think you’re wrong there.  I think the Tazer is a compliment to the nightstick (PR-24).

Only when confronted with potential lethal force should a police officer resort to his sidearm.  In that case the tazer should be left in it’s holster.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

My dad, a former officer, told me that typical police procedure is to always go “one notch above” what the person you’re confronting is doing.

If he/she refuses verbal commands then you can put your hands on them.

If he she resists physically you can use a nightstick of comparable non-lethal weapon (mace, taser, etc.) to subdue him/her.

If he/she pulls a knife or other potentially deadly weapon you pull your gun.

At that point things get a little more complicated.  If you’ve got the person cornered and all they have is a knife you keep them cornered with your gun until they either give up or put someone’s life at risk (like charging with the knife or whatever).

If the person pulls a gun you shoot them immediately.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

What a sickening little episode. Calling a young guy like that “a little turd” is even worse. Laughing at someone shrieking in agony - well, that’s beneath contempt, I’m afraid. And who said all those students hate cops? They sounded like a bunch of scared kids to me. The whole thing disgusts me. What was all this “stand up” stuff? What difference does it make? if you want to neutralise a threat, then the ground is a good place for the guy to be, surely? Barbarism. Ken, I hope you don’t have people laughing at your pain and suffering. Compassion? Try it, you might like it.

Calling a young guy like that “a little turd” is even worse.

Sounds like a Kindergartener problem to me.

The fact is from the audio he was acting like a little turd.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

He deserves every volts that was coming to him!  If you think that was bad, go to Saudi Arabia, the cops over there are brutal.

The kids rights were clearly violated. All the right wingers here just like to see people getting hurt. They are all sitting around, replaying the vid, watching the kid jellyfish, and spooging on their keyboards… while a crucifix looks on over their shoulder.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Well, it’s a disgusting way to talk about someone, regardless. And you can’t even see the incident. Surely the cops were worse? It’s unacceptable to be a little brusque with a cop (if he was, that is,) but it’s fine to repeatedly zap a young student who sounded pretty naive and green? I’m glad I don’t live in the US, if everybody thinks that’s okay, and even finds it funny. Very sad.

We do know the kid was very aggressive at least verbally BEFORE he got tazzed.  It’s not on the video but if he was swinging his arms “resisting arrest” then I think the cops were likely justified in what they did.

Whining about the police calling a little turd “a little turd” is pretty juvenile.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

The only little turds here are the contents of those policemen’s skulls.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

No, I was referring to what another blogger said, and now you too display the same lack of basic courtesy. I just find it to be in very poor taste to say that about someone you’ve just watched suffering that much pain and humiliation. I don’t believe he deserved it, but even if he was being cheeky he ought, according to common decency, to be spoken of a little more kindly. I don’t think that’s juvenile.

Hey, you keep nipping in front of me, Calvin! I’m of course replying to the posts one back.

Calm down, the problem is that you actually have no empathy for the job the police have to do.

They get called in knowing that a person has been asked to leave the library.  Their job is to eject that person.

This person acting aggressive and dawdling on his way out.  They tell him to hurry on and he deliberately provokes them by dawdling more. 

They grab his arm to escort him out and defuse the situation.  He become verbally aggressive and swings his arms (conjecture but almost certainly true).  At this point he is resisting arrest and does not respond to the police officer’s commands.

Furthermore the crowd is hostile and starts harassing the police.  They want to diffuse the situation but the loonball that created the problem does not cooperate.

The whole problem would never have happened if the loonball hadn’t acted up in the first place.

He is a little turd and deserved what he got. 

If it would have happened to me, I would have told them I forgot my ID and asked to save my work.  Then I would have left.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I appreciate that the police have a hard job. But I don’t think it does us justice to laugh at somebody on the ground being zapped repeatedly in front of, well, millions, probably. It’s not funny, it’s pure cruelty. I don’t know if he was resisting in any meaningful way, but I don’t really care. Nobody really deserves that just for being a petulant kid. What kind of country are you running where some dozy student gets zapped in a university library?! For the crime of possible “dawdling” and maybe “swinging his arms”. Jeez, why not just shoot him in the head? He’s clearly a massive menace to society…

I don’t think the crowd is hostile - I think some are shouting at the student to do as the cops are telling him. Surely two armed cops aren’t scared of a few spotty kids? Even I wouldn’t be, and I’m no karate master, I assure you. i’ve defused loads of situations like that - they basically just did everything wrong, and in a particularly unpleasant, pain-inflicting way.

For the crime of possible “dawdling” and maybe “swinging his arms”.

No he was dawdling so the Police put their hands on him. Then he started to resist them and the cops responded in my opinion properly.

Surely two armed cops aren’t scared of a few spotty kids?

This shows just how ignorant you are.  The last thing they need is someone to jump on their back while they are manhandling the little turd out of the library.  The last thing they need is someone to be grabbing at their sidearm while they’re wrestling this turd.

Jeez, why not just shoot him in the head?

Clearly you’ve lost all grip on reality here.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Never been anywhere without an ID, huh?  Don’t remember how much work it was to gather up a bunch of research material for a paper?  Or even just to get all the things laid out one needs to do homework?  Sounds like he forgot his ID, genuinely tried to find it, then reluctantly AGREED to leave by packing up and moving toward the door.  Someone freaked out and it is the police’s duty to be the most professional and calm and rational in any situation and they simply blew it.  Anything he did in fear or panic after that point is irelevant to the case.

If I am somewhere without my ID I realize I’m in the wrong and leave as soon as possible.

No issue and no morons second guessing the cops.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

The “Jeez, why not shoot him in the head comment” was an illustration of how much you’re going overboard with a situation which posed no real danger. You are pronouncing the guy guilty without any proof - and I notice you keep using the term which I find so unpleasant, so thank you for showing once again your courtesy and decency.

I think shocked provides the most plausible explanation. It sounds pretty authoritarian to me. In a library, too. Dearie me.

If I am somewhere without my ID I realize I’m in the wrong and leave as soon as possible.

If i pay expensive tuition for acces to computers i would use them.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

If i pay expensive tuition for acces to computers i would use them.

And you’d also be the first to complain if some non-student nut got into the library and raped a girl back in the stacks or assaulted someone because security was too lax.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

and I notice you keep using the term which I find so unpleasant,

You mean “little turd” offends you?

You must have had a hard time in school.  LOL.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

But no-one’s saying the police were wrong to monitor the guy to make sure he left! But to cattle prod him for being a bit slow or petulant. You can’t put someone in massive pain on the slim chance he might be a criminal. Arrest him if you have to. Full stop.

And no, I did not have a hard time at school. Again, you give the impression of lacking imagination and compassion by apparently thinking one has to be personally bullied in order to be appalled by it. What you’re saying is unkind.

And you’d also be the first to complain if some non-student nut got into the library and raped a girl back in the stacks or assaulted someone because security was too lax.

I thought he was using a computer and not raping anyone.
Hey, when these cops get in trouble you guys will have been wrong. I understand some people might have family in the police force, but that doesnt obligate you to stick up for shitty cops.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Again you totally mistaken how the little turd got to the point of being tazzed.

The police put their hands on him to guide him out of the building.  That’s appropriate when he’s not cooperating fully. 

At that point the little turd got very aggressive.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Calm Down, Sparkie, and all the rest who don’t have a clue what you’re talking about,

A tazer is a valuable tool of police work. All of you lefties out there shriek about the use of the tazer, so let me ask you this…..

Was it better in the day when an officer had to physically fight someone to get compliance? Or when we had to use a club (nightstick, PR-24, ASP, whatever - the function is the same) to get compliance? Why is it better to physically fight someone - risking injury to yourself and the suspect - than to Taze him? The tazer does no harm. It just locks up the muscles making resistance impossible. It hurts like hell - I know, I had to get shot with one to be certified with it.

Tazers can be life savers as well. Here are two great examples that I saw myself:

A woman stood in the doorway of her residence with a cocked .38 to her head. She said she was going to kill any officer who approached her, and that she was going to kill herself because her husband had been unfaithful. One of our officers talked to her while another got withing twenty feet with a Tazer (about max range). The officer talking to her then said “Is that your husband behind you?” She turned to look, taking the .38 from her head for a split second. The Tazer hit her, dropping her to the griound. Officers rushed in, got the gun, and restrained her. Nobody was hurt.

A guy had a molotov cocktail in his hand and a large hunting knife in the other. He had just burned one car. It was his intention to commit “suicide by police.” He kept charging officers yelling, “Shhot me! Shoot me,” and slashing with the knife. A few short years ago we would have had to shoot that guy. A tazer put him down. Nobody was hurt.

Just last week a very large guy hit one of my officers in the mouth when the officer tried to talk to him on a suspicious persons call. A tazer put him down and we were able to handcuff and shackle him without he or my opfficers getting hurt.

A Tazer is a compliance device. It hurts. BVut it does no harm except in the rare cases where the suspect is coked out or has a heart condition to begin with.

For all of you who mourn for the old days when cops just “busted heads” and hauled peole off - well we got sued a lot in those days for just that. And a lot more cops got hurt. So did suspects. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt AND the hospital records to prove it.

I for one like the tool. I saves a lot of grief. Message to that idiot kid and his ilk…don’t want to get tazered? Comply. When they tell you to stop resisting….STOP. Simple.

By the way…the tazer is lited well below deadly force on the force continuum. Right after about the third voice command to cooperate. We don’t want to get hurt and we don’t want to hurt you so….cooperate.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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He was leaving when they put their hands on him. It was unnessary then. These cops obviously have tiny little penises and they are trying to compensate for it. If you ask my opinion, we should only recruit cops with big penises so their ‘complejos’ don’t interfere.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

I understand some people might have family in the police force, but that doesnt obligate you to stick up for shitty cops.

Get this, Sparkie…the Supreme Court of the United States authorizes offciers to use “whatever force is necessary” to make an arrest. Than includes putting their hands on you when you get stupid. The kid got stupid. Pulling away from an officer who is putting his hands on you in the line of duty is resisting. Period. And then…you lose. Simple. Get over it.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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These cops obviously have tiny little penises and they are trying to compensate for it. If you ask my opinion, we should only recruit cops with big penises so their ‘complejos’ don’t interfere.

Sparkie -

Big penises = more testosterone. It would just further intimidate you left wing bed, limp wristed girly man, bed wetting types and give you something else to cry about.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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In this trial by youtube you still insult this person in an unpleasant manner, without having all the facts. It does, however, appear that he was on the ground and they zapped him, for heaven’s sake! And how unworthy to persist with your name-calling. You know nothing about him. Unpleasant, undignified and unnecessary.

Big penises = more testosterone.

You seem to study at the r108 school of science. Nice correlation, but I don’t think its true, otherwise I would be made of pure testosterone.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Calm Down…you sure sounded like you had decided that the cops were guilty based on this “trial by you tube.”

Doesn’t the shoe fit well on the other foot?

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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I’m speaking to Whistler there, by the way. But Pilgrim, I’m not against Tasers per se, who said I was? But it’s got to be used sparingly, surely? That was a sickening clip. If you’re so frightened of crime that a student on the ground has to be zapped again, then I feel for you. And is a college library really the place to strongarm somebody who was leaving anyway? It says he was walking towards the door. So why manhandle him? I would be pretty pissed off myself, to be honest, scared and embarrassed. A policeman needs to be a diplomat a lot of the time, and know how to defuse a situation. But they appear to have helped in escalating the situation.

Your usual MO. Sparkie. Whenever you get yourself into a debate and find yourself pounded by facts and logic you resort to camoflage. Stick to the thead this time.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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Pilgrim.
I’ll stick to the ‘thead’ if you give me some glue and tell me what the hell a ‘thead’ is.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Well, it’s my argument that very little could justify having to listen to that guy screaming in agony. i’m not condemning those cops. I just can’t see at this stage what could possibly justify the degree of pain inflicted. Particularly when he was already on the ground. Get up, they kept saying, correct? Why? I would like the facts, but I cannot imagine what facts (unless he was armed) could make what happened at all acceptable. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

Thread, zippy. Thread. Type-o. I get carried away when I’m pounding you to mush.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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calm down….

If they were giving him commands and he wasn’t immediately complying the use of the tazer to shock him again is justified. I’ve seen it underused as well, when someone was shocked once but still wouldn’t put his hands behind his back or whatever and officers moved in too soon. The fight was on, and they had to back out so the tazer could be used again. Just because the guy is screaming doesn’t mean he’s responding to commands. And make no mistake…thore are COMMANDS. Not requests or suggestions.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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This isn’t Judge Dredd. Police don’t have the authority to dole out punishment, as these cops oviously did. He was already cuffed, on the ground, and not a threat. They should lose their jobs for using the taser again just because he wouldn’t stand up.

Anyway, sorry guys…I didn’t mean to hijack this thread (thead to you, Sparkie). It’s an area where I have some expertise and I can’t help interjecting my opinion.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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I like the police personally. Whenever they have a chance to put me away they get carried away and violate my rights. Then when I go to court I represent myself and crush them. There’s nothing like the look on a troopers face when a degenerate like me walks out a free man because the trooper is a rights abusing tard. God bless 8th grade educations.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Based on your last idiotic post, sparkie, I will now excuse myself from this thread. The imbecile level has just reached critical mass. Have a nice day.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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Police only protect us when they don’t abuse our rights. When they abuse our rights, crooks walk. Simple as that. When they abuse our rights, they guarantee crooks will be out on the streets. The cops you guys stick up for who abuse people’s right make it harder to lock up perps. That’s the point.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Without all the facts, I can’t really condemn one side or the other. However, that being said, with the evidence that was presented, I’d agree that the use of force seemed excessive. I respect the difficult challanges and tasks that police officers must take, but I feel that they still must be held accountable when they make clearly avoidable mistakes or abuses of their authority. This is the case in many private fields, such as medicine, and should be when dealing with the police force.

I don’t think these officers deserve to be prosecuted or fired, but a suspension and extra training classes may be beneficial.

Ken, I hope you don’t have people laughing at your pain and suffering.

Excuse me, but I was laughing at his stupidity, not his pain and suffering.

...I was laughing at his stupidity, not his pain and suffering.

Ken,

And now we have someone else’s stupidity to laugh at.

I laughed when I heard him getting tasered.  I’m not afraid to admit it.

Tasering hurts, I know (stupid high school prank, don’t ask), but it wasn’t like the dude was having his eyes gouged out.  He acted like an asshole, and then he got treated like one.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Thanks for you valuable input Pilgrim.  As you know I’m not automatically on the cops side in cases like this, but it’s obvious from the audio record that the cops did what they had to do.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

It’s good to know that tax dollars are paying for cops to bully assholes…

A couple of other bloggers have been saying that the cops shouldn’t have tasered a guy who was essentially engaged in a non-violent protest.  He went limp is all.

I disagree.  This kid doesn’t have the right to disturb that library in the manner he did, nor does he have a right to ignore police instructions.  So he got tasered.

He deserved it.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob, could you please link us to the particular law you’re referencing that says that citizens may be tasered for sitting down in a public library?

They should lose their jobs for using the taser again just because he wouldn’t stand up.

Uninformed bullshit opinion. Read my above posts for the facts about tasers. ‘Nuff said.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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It’s good to know that tax dollars are paying for cops to bully assholes…

No they were merely helping him leave the building where he wasn’t allowed.

Rob, could you please link us to the particular law you’re referencing that says that citizens may be tasered for sitting down in a public library?

He didn’t have a right to be there, he wouldn’t leave. 

He resisted arrest and got tazzed.

Too bad there’s nothing the little turd could have done to avoid the experience.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

You guys seem to be purposely confusing the two instances of tasering. The first time may or may not have been warrented, it’s hard to say without having been there. The second time is completely unforgivable. The cops weren’t in danger, and all they had to do was carry him out.

It’s not their job to carry the little turd out.  Do you know how hard it is to carry a resisting person?  Why should the cops injure their back because the little turd didn’t want to cooperate.

Do you ever think before posting Chad?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

1) The CSO’s were doing their job asking for students’ ID.
2) The student was asked to leave because he couldn’t produce ID.
3) The student *DID NOT COMPLY*.

It is at this point that the student is GUILTY. It was his CHOICE to not comply, and he suffered the consequences.

4) The cops get called in. Supposedly he was on his way out. Sorry, but that’s too late. This sint’ a little game for teh student to decide when he will or will not leave. And if it was his real intention to leave, he would have been gone BEFORE the cops arrived. But he was eating up the attention and the rush.

I think the patriot act comment and the other remark “this god-forsaken place” tells you a lot about the mindset of this person. He was causing a scene. And he was enjoying it - until the cops did something unexpected, which caused the child to freak out.

The cops endangered their own lives. This scene could have gotten much uglier if the other kids in the library decided to make a fight of it. I really believe the cops were far too complacent about the situation.

It’s not the use of force by the cops that bothers me - it’s that they didn’t handle the situation properly, thereby risking injury to themselves and the others there.

Regardless, the blame lies totally on the student. If he would have complied as he was supposed to, none of this would have happened. Period.

It’s not surprisign that those whoa re taking the kids side won’t mention the kid’s responsibility in all of this. Nope. Just a litany of excuses for the student’s bad behavior.

Good post, slick…

actually thinking the issue through before delivering an opinion. What a novel approach! Paying attention, lefties?

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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It’s not their job to carry the little turd out.  Do you know how hard it is to carry a resisting person?

First of all, it is their job to carry “the little turd” out if that’s what the situation requires. Secondly, Chad was referring to the second tasering, after the student was already on the ground and subdued.

The cops endangered their own lives. This scene could have gotten much uglier if the other kids in the library decided to make a fight of it. I really believe the cops were far too complacent about the situation.

What should they have done? Tasered the sourrounding students? Drawn their weapons, or even fired? Because I can’t really think of any other scenario that is less complacent than tasering the student after he is already on the ground and subdued.

First of all, it is their job to carry “the little turd” out if that’s what the situation requires.

It’s certainly safer for the cops if the little turd walks himself out.

Probably safer for the guy because I’m pretty sure my hands would slip when we were close to the stairs.

Your post doesn’t make much sense, but I dig the avatar.  Sunshine Superman’s my favorite off of that set.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Probably the only way to inflame a bunch of students studying in a library is to unnecesarilly brutalize one in front of the others.

Next time they’ll take him out back and kick his ass.

Won’t be Taser cop, he’ll be out of a job and giving
depositions in the civil action.

Damned radicals.

After mechanical restraints were applied any further use of force was/is unnecessary and is illegal. It appears that the officers in question were using the taser to gain compliance with their verbal orders to get the kid to stand up. Proper procedure is to administer medical assistance by qualified medical personell after the application of force, and subsequent application of mechanical restraints. Once mechanical restraints (handcuffs) were applied and the suspect is on the ground no further force is permitted. The proper removal of the belligerant at this point was to carry him, and if he was kicking the officers additional restraints must be applied (leg irons) or plasticuffs (zip-ties). The initial use of force was necessary,appropriate and legal. The force used after the hand cuffing was unnecessary, excessive and not justified (illegal) under the circumstances.

“Stand up or i’ll taser you again!”

No, i’ve never heard that before!  Get Down or i’ll taser you i can understand, but get up?

No, these university rent-a-cops were way out of line here.  WAY out of line.

[Feet make good soup!]

Because I can’t really think of any other scenario that is less complacent than tasering the student after he is already on the ground and subdued.

He wasn’t subdued, he was still resisting.

All he had to do to end the tasering was cooperate.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

No, these university rent-a-cops were way out of line here.  WAY out of line.

They’re not rent-a-cops, they don’t have the proper training to handle tazers.  These were University Police which is just as legit a police force as your local city police.

they don’t have the proper training to handle tazers.

Why?  Did they miss or something?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

He wasn’t subdued, he was still resisting.
All he had to do to end the tasering was cooperate.
Rob on November 17, 2006 at 10:52 pm
Rob any force used when a person is handcuffed is considered unnecessary force. Go to your local police station and talk with a legal affairs person. And like someone pointed out earlier you tase to subdue long enough in order to apply mechanical restraints (handcuffs) and not to force them to stand up.

Rob any force used when a person is handcuffed is considered unnecessary force.

Was he handcuffed?  I don’t think that’s been established has it?

Go to your local police station and talk with a legal affairs person. And like someone pointed out earlier you tase to subdue long enough in order to apply mechanical restraints (handcuffs) and not to force them to stand up.

He wasn’t just sitting down, he was actively resisting arrest.

I really don’t see what the big deal is.  He hasn’t been permanently injured.  He resisted arrest, he got the taser.

Big flipping deal.  I wish more of you were focusing on how this asshat acted rather than the police.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob any force used when a person is handcuffed is considered unnecessary force.

Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.  We’ve had a police chief already comment on this matter and I’ll take his word 1000 times over yours.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Why?  Did they miss or something?

HAHA! No! That’s not what I meant.. I meant that your rent-a-cop security guard types don’t go through enough training as part of their job to use weapons such as tazers.  Not anywhere I’ve ever heard of anyway.  These cops were not security guards though, they are a full-on police force just like any city PD

Well if he was not handcuffed the cops should go to remedial training. The reason police officers use of non, and/or less lethal force is to immobilize the suspect and apply mechanical restraints. You would not want these cops handling your son or daughter. If you were sitting in a use of force review panel the first thing you would notice would be how easy it was for this “asshat” to provoke the cops. It is also a common tactic among law enforcement officers not to handcuff the suspect, so they can justify whatever force they use on the suspect. I don’t condone what the kid did but I also think these officers are mature trained proffesionals.

Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.  We’ve had a police chief already comment on this matter and I’ll take his word 1000 times over yours.
The Whistler on November 17, 2006 at 11:57 pm
Whistler I say so because for the last 25 years I was and still am a cop.
And Whistler care to provide the name and jurisdiction of this police chief?

Whistler I say so because for the last 25 years I was and still am a cop.

out of curiosity, ellinas…..what is your assignment as a police officer. Street? Admin? Training? CID? Are you taser certified? Ever used one? I’m a twenty year street cop. I don’t see anything wrong with the way those guys handled that fool. I’m curious as to why you do.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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I don’t see anything wrong with the way those guys handled that fool. I’m curious as to why you do.
Pilgrim on November 18, 2006 at 11:48 am
Pilgrim with all due respect please read carefully what I have posted previously on this subject.
out of curiosity, ellinas…..what is your assignment as a police officer. Street? Admin? Training? CID? Are you taser certified? Ever used one?
Pilgrim on November 18, 2006 at 11:48 am
Pilgrim be advised that I’ve been there done that.
Like I said earlier this would not pass muster in a force review panel.

Yep, you’re a cop because you say so.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Whistler, you’re being a little annoying because I say so. The guy’s being nice and you’re being petulant point five. I think you may have far more in common with that wee student you condemn so much than you imagine. But I wouldn’t like you to be tasered like that either! Monstrous. But anyway I’m sure you’re sound as a pound in real life!

Calm down.  Ellinas has been posting here.

From his prior posts he a) lives in California and B) has not been able to save a nickle of money.

A police officer in California would have a very lucrative investment account through his employer. 

As best as I can tell he’s lying.  get it.

By the way I wouldn’t be tasered like that because I would have left when asked.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

What, without getting your stuff? Anyway, I thought he was already heading for the door. Plus it sounds like you would have asked for their badges, heh heh!! What a hoot. Except rather sad and brutal. Oh well. I’ll stick to civilisation, thanks.

Rob any force used when a person is handcuffed is considered unnecessary force.

Sorry, but….bullshit. Ever had a handcuffed guy kick out the windows of your unit after you get him in the back seat? Ever been headbutted by a handcuffed guy? Ever had a handcuffed guy break and run, then fight when you catch him? What did you do when these things happened, have a chat with him? Or thump him?

Ellinas, with all due respect I suspect that, if you are a cop, you’re a desk monkey or a training geek. Any time on the street you’ve spent was a long time ago. Reality and theory are two way different things. You should know that.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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Calm Down: Please read the story.  This was the second set of “cops” that confronted them.  The first was a community resource cop or something like that.

The Community cop asked him for his ID and asked him to leave.  He was STILL around by the time these guys came in for backup.

At this point the police were ok to escort him out.  Since he wasn’t going they grabbed his arm to escort him out.  (That’s pretty clear from the audio on the tape.)

The guy freaks out and refuses to cooperate.

I’ve pissed Pilgrim off before because I don’t always side with the cops.  But in this case they did the proper thing.

What does fighting with the police in Ireland get you Calm?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Well, it depends. I think in Ireland, the cops are a more patient and reasonable! In Northern Ireland (different country, of course) I wouldn’t recommend it, though. But I don’t really know - why do you think I’m from Ireland? But the whole thing could have been avoided - that’s my impression. The cops should have been patient and not taken it personally. The guy might have been slightly annoying, I don’t know, but I don’t accept he was a threat, nor that the cops (as someone said it) put their lives in danger, as if they were very brave. I could have got him out in five minutes without raising my hand once, I promise you.

I could have got him out in five minutes without raising my hand once, I promise you.

Yeah, okay. I think that some people believe that cops are supposed to be mental health counselors, or father-confesors. While there are aspects of both of those in this job the fact is that cops are law enforcement officers.Or, if you prefer, peace officers.

Those guys ddn’t just come to the library, look around and say, “There’s one!” and start to hassle the guy. They were called there because the guy was an intrusive ass. He started it. They didn’t. They didn’t come to counsel him. They came to remove him. They removed him. He should have gone under his own steam without assing up. He didn’t and he got tased. Tough.

By the way, Whistler…..I don’t always agree with everything the cops do, either. I just have the advantage of personal knowledge and experience so I can see things from a different angle that the general public. And…you’ve never really pissed me off. You’ve presented your arguments in an adult manner and I just responded, that’s all. That’s what’s fun about this blog.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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why do you think I’m from Ireland?

My mistake, I mixed you up with someone else.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

We’ve had a police chief already comment on this matter and I’ll take his word 1000 times over yours.
The Whistler on November 17, 2006 at 11:57 pm
Whistler I am still waiting for the name and the jurisdiction of the police chief.
I did not resort to peronal attacks on this post. Both pilgrim and whistler did. Very unfortunate. I guess pilgrim did not read everything I wrote on this post.
Pilgrim if you are interested I will give you a tour of my department any day as a professional courtesy.
Whistler you don’t know what you are talking about.

We don’t remember CAIR having anything to say back in August, when a Muslim deliberately ran over fifteen Californians with his SUV, killing one.  But a recent police stun gun incident on the UCLA campus in the same state has thrown the organization into full battle mode, since it involves an Iranian-American Muslim student.

According to CAIR’s version of the event, the student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, was “Tasered” multiple times after being asked by campus police to leave a computer lab that he had entered without proper ID.  During this (CAIR contends) he told officers that he had a medical condition.

Although technically correct, as far as the sequence goes, it turns out that there are a lot of critical gaps in CAIR’s story.  Fortunately, a camera phone on the scene captured the details that CAIR forgot to mention.

The video and audio begin with the student refusing to stand up and leave the library after failing to produce ID.  The first thing that is heard on the tape is Tabatabainejad (who is carrying a backpack) hysterically shrieking, “Don’t touch me!”

The officers then ask the agitated man no less than 21 times to stand up and leave.  He refuses and is shocked (not Tasered with darts).  The Muslim yells, “Here’s your F____ Patriot Act!” and asks the other students, “Am I the only martyr?”  We didn’t hear any mention of a medical condition, nor could we find an elaboration of it in news stories.  Neither do we hear him say that he is unable to stand.  His resistance appears to be entirely of his own volition.

The officers then order Tabatabainejad to stand up and leave five more times.  The Muslim responds “F___ You!”  The officers again order him to stand up and leave - repeating this an additional 22 times.  The student refuses and is shocked again.  During this, the Muslim informs the police officers that they are “Mother F___ers.”

The officers then issue at least 53 additional commands for the student to stand up and leave.  He declines to comply and is shocked again.  [Editor’s note: Being shocked with a stun gun is much different than being Tasered with darts.  Had the officers done that, this guy would have goose-stepped out of the building chanting the Pledge of Allegiance.]

So, given a fuller view, here’s our version of the event.  A young, self-important college student with a log up his ass resents being told what to do by the police, particularly when he realizes that it’s his fault for being somewhere that he shouldn’t without proper ID.  He also happens to be a Muslim-American with a chip on his shoulder about law enforcement and the Patriot Act.

Against his contrived theatrics, he is ordered over 100 times to stand up and walk out like a man.  Although quite capable of doing this, he refuses to comply and instead goes limp and yells political slogans with a lucidity that belies a conceited desire to make the event much bigger than it needs to be.

Even one of the Muslim students who knows Tabatabainejad later referred to him as a “smartass” to a reporter at a support rally, and the blue-collar police officers, treated so condescendingly by the younger and more-educated psychology major, were a mix of black, Asian, and white. 

In short, it does not appear that Mostafa Tabatabainejad is the Rosa Parks that CAIR has been so desperately seeking.  We expect them to quietly resume their search elsewhere.

Good post, Nomad.

Unfortunately it is full of facts. Facts are such inconvenient things to deal with. The left, CAIR, and those so quick to blame the police whenever there is a confrontation in which someone cries “My rights are being violated” will quietly go away when challenged by the truth. Facts get in the way when you’re looking for a martyr.

Your post is thorough. It will be interesting to see just how the usual suspects ignore the facts this time.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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Great addition to the coversation Nomad.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Sorry you guys I did’t realize he was muslim. I guess that makes all the difference in the world. F**k CAIR. The ease that this student drew in these officers is astounding. After the first tasering they should have hancuffed him, and if he was resisting any further, well trained and competent cops would have used additional mechanical restraints (either leg-irons or plasticuffs)and then carried him out of the library. Nomad adds nothing to the debate but hot air.

ellinas: Thanks for the on-the-spot advice.  I take it you were there at the time, and that is why you know so much better than the police officers who actually had to deal with this madman.  A muslim guy, wearing a backpack(the London bombers had their bombs in backpacks), yells out something about being a “martyr”.  The police showed admirable restraint in not shooting him in the head.  He’s one lucky jihadi.  He was trying to incite the police, and got less than he deserved, IMO.  You need to dial back the hate, ellinas.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Let’s see here.

We have a self-styled Muslim belligerent who refuses repeated requests by legal authority to alter his behavior and comply fully with lawful demands.  After more than a dozen such requests and directives, he finally suffers the consequences of his own belligerent non-compliance.

Sounds just like Saddam Hussein.  Mr. Tabatabainejad certainly should have known better.  What was the dumbass thinking anyway.

Robert108 you are welcome. Y’all can’t have it both ways. Fact remains that he was not singled out,the cops did not know (initialy) his name, or that he was Muslim. Therefore your “A muslim guy, wearing a backpack(the London bombers had their bombs in backpacks), yells out something about being a “martyr”.” is without basis and hysterically funny. I do not fault the cops for the initial use of force, for it was legal justified and entirely appropriate.

Ellinas,

I noticed you dodged my question earlier. I’ll ask again: What is your assignment as a police officer and how long has it been since you were on the street? Your quick condemnation of those officers makes me think that you haven’t been on the street in along time.

After the first tasering they should have hancuffed him, and if he was resisting any further, well trained and competent cops would have used additional mechanical restraints (either leg-irons or plasticuffs)and then carried him out of the library. Nomad adds nothing to the debate but hot air.

So…wrestle with this clown while he’s still resisting? Why? The taser is a tool that forces compliance without harm. fight the guy and risk harming him (bruises, broken bones, torn ligaments or muscles). You handcuff him after he stops resisting or at least de-escalates to the point that an officer can proceed safely.

The more you talk ellinas the more I’m convinced you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The future ain’t what it used to be…..

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