Peter Singer Doesn’t Care if You Die

Rob noted earlier that Peter Singer had written an op-ed for rationed healthcare. Here’s a little more from that op-ed and about Peter Singer.
Peter Singer is a “bioethicist”. This and fifty cents will get you a cup of really bad coffee! Singer has an op-ed in New York Times making the case for the rationing of healthcare. This puts him as a flak for Obamacare.

Governments implicitly place a dollar value on a human life when they decide how much is to be spent on health care programs and how much on other public goods that are not directed toward saving lives. The task of health care bureaucrats is then to get the best value for the resources they have been allocated. It is the familiar comparative exercise of getting the most bang for your buck. Sometimes that can be relatively easy to decide. If two drugs offer the same benefits and have similar risks of side effects, but one is much more expensive than the other, only the cheaper one should be provided by the public health care program.

Or, here’s another scenario…same as above, but now, we’ll give a kickback to one of the officials in charge of that life saving drug, and see which one is chosen? Like that would never happen! (John Murtha)
Or maybe if stocks of the drug are limited, we can have the official allocate the drugs to those with the most political clout or connections?
In all the history of the world, we’ve never had problems with elected or unelected officials making bad decisions, unethical decisions or acting out of incompetence.
…And I have a bridge I’d like to sell you!

The death of a teenager is a greater tragedy than the death of an 85-year-old, and this should be reflected in our priorities.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve known some pretty snotty and worthless teenagers! And some 85 year olds saved our bacon on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima. I do not concede the point that all other things being equal, the death of a teenager is a greater tragedy than the death of an 85-year-old, because all other things are never equal.
Singer goes on to state a formula, which presumably government bureaucrats would use to determine that some anti-social teenage skinhead deserves X amount of healthcare, while an aging WWII vet would receive Y. He doesn’t couch it in quite those terms, but if you read Pinheadese, you can figure it out!
How else can Singer quantify your life? Try wading through this:

Health care does more than save lives: it also reduces pain and suffering. How can we compare saving a person’s life with, say, making it possible for someone who was confined to bed to return to an active life? We can elicit people’s values on that too. One common method is to describe medical conditions to people — let’s say being a quadriplegic — and tell them that they can choose between 10 years in that condition or some smaller number of years without it. If most would prefer, say, 10 years as a quadriplegic to 4 years of nondisabled life, but would choose 6 years of nondisabled life over 10 with quadriplegia, but have difficulty deciding between 5 years of nondisabled life or 10 years with quadriplegia, then they are, in effect, assessing life with quadriplegia as half as good as nondisabled life. (These are hypothetical figures, chosen to keep the math simple, and not based on any actual surveys.) If that judgment represents a rough average across the population, we might conclude that restoring to nondisabled life two people who would otherwise be quadriplegics is equivalent in value to saving the life of one person, provided the life expectancies of all involved are similar.

Got it? You’re not an individual to him, you’re Spam in a can! He can trade two cans of Spam for a pudding pop and a box of Ho-Ho’s to be determined later!

Some will object that this discriminates against people with disabilities. (Damn skippy!) If we return to the hypothetical assumption that a year with quadriplegia is valued at only half as much as a year without it, then a treatment that extends the lives of people without disabilities will be seen as providing twice the value of one that extends, for a similar period, the lives of quadriplegics. That clashes with the idea that all human lives are of equal value. The problem, however, does not lie with the concept of the quality-adjusted life-year, but with the judgment that, if faced with 10 years as a quadriplegic, one would prefer a shorter lifespan without a disability.

What one might prefer in an ideal world and how one might face reality are two different matters. While I might say, theoretically, that I would prefer living for only four years without my legs as opposed to ten years with them, that hypothetical is pretty meaningless when it comes down to making a decision based on the reality of the here and now, and not some pointy headed intellectual exercise as to what measures should be taken to maintain health and life. I want to be considered as an individual, not just another cog in the machine. Peter Singer is very much a cog in the machine kind of guy.

“because people are human does not mean that their lives are more valuable than animals.” Practical Ethics, Cambridge University Press, 1979, p. 185.

So, Mr. Singer, you cannot tell the difference between the value of my life and an animal’s, and yet you want me to trust you and the government you advise to appropriately value the comparison of my life and health to a finite pool of healthcare dollars and make the correct decision? Yeah. Right!

This method of preserving our belief that everyone has an equal right to life is, however, a double-edged sword. If life with quadriplegia is as good as life without it, there is no health benefit to be gained by curing it.

Here in all his pointyheaded liberalness is the fallacy: The “quality” of life is not encompassed by one’s physical wholeness. Who are you, Mr. Singer, as a pointyheaded liberal wonk to tell me that the quality of my life is dictated by the number of functioning fingers or toes I have, as long as my mind is active? What right has the government to decide whether I live or die (or lose more toes) on the basis of your flawed reasoning?
Just how disposable are human beings, Mr. Singer?

He not only advocates abortion but also killing disabled babies up to 28 days after they are born. In his book Practical Ethics, he wrote, “When the death of a disabled infant will lead to the birth of another infant with better prospects of a happy life, the total amount of happiness will be greater if the disabled infant is killed…. Killing a disabled infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person. Often, it is not wrong at all.”

If this guy represents the way you think, then Obamacare may be for you! If you lean more towards the Descartesian “I think, therefore I am”, then you should fight Obamacare with all your strength while you still have it!
Cross Posted at Proof Positive

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  • http://Array carrick

    Ellinas:

    I will let you know that this charitable man, instead of paying a good wage to carpenters and workers associated with the building trades, brought in workers from other states, and payed sub par wages

    Translation: The unions cost these people their jobs by pricing their salaries out of the market.

    Keep crying though Ellinas. I’m sure you pay top dollar for your house cleaner.

  • http://threewisemen.blogspot.com/ Xanthippas

    Peter Singer Doesn’t Care if You Die

    Well, I guess if you’re going to right a misleading post that completely misconstrues someone’s argument, best to make that clear up front.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Hannitized is right about how solutions can be found through recognizing commonalities.

    Unfortunately, Hannitized is a poseur, pretending to want honest and rational discussions, but he is often the first to indulge in the type of ad hominems he claims he dislikes! One does not “recognize commonalities” by constantly accusing the people one merely disagrees with of “lying”, as he does constantly with Rob and myself.

    He has a long history of dishonesty at this blog and making false accusations, and as of yet, I have seen no signs of repentance on his part, nor any indication of a change for the better.

    I treat Hannitized with the contempt he has earned. I have come to recognize the intellectual dishonesty that permeates his every comment.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Well, I guess if you’re going to right (sic) a misleading post that completely misconstrues someone’s argument, best to make that clear up front.

    Is English your first language??? What else didn’t you understand?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Advisor is yet another word Poofie is unfamiliar with.

    For a comprehensive list of English words that Hannitized is unfamiliar with the meanings, go here.

    The horrendous spelling aside,

    LOL! One typo hairgel boy? That’s all you’ve got??? I lost count of the words you’ve misspelled and screwed up the punctuation of in just the last two days!

    his honesty will not be shattered by the fact that a quadriplegic will have a life that will consist of few experiences and fewer joys (Hannitized pulls his mind reading act out of his ass here!) , but a life worth loving nevertheless.

    No, mind numbingly dishonest troll, my honesty will not be shattered, because I told the truth. And the only person who can truly determine if his life is “worth living”, is that person himself! And if, as you grudgingly agree with me, that that person’s life is worth living, then, WTF? You have to make it sound like you disagree even when you agree with me? What a child you are, Wankertized!

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Peter Singer is also in favor of infanticide, euthanasia of the elderly and infirm, and mentally ill, and argues that animals should have more rights than children.

  • sayanything-4625

    I’m not saying they have a duty to die.

    There is not a system that will have 100% coverage. Obama’s own system, if I am to believe the numbers, will give us a trillion dollar deficit and we will still have 17 million uninsured. We don’t have the money to pay for everyone so care will have to be rationed and the “rich” will still get care exactly like the system we have now.

  • Euryphaessa

    First off, there are a great many flaws in your diatribe. While I agree that politicians rarely handle anything well, your first point against allocation of scarce resources by politicians is nonsensical. Peter Singer is speaking specifically about the distribution of public goods, but stocks of drug companies are not public goods. Public goods are services or items that are better provided for by governments as they are generally not profitable to private companies.

    I don’t know about you, but I’ve known some pretty snotty and worthless teenagers! And some 85 year olds saved our bacon on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima. I do not concede the point that all other things being equal, the death of a teenager is a greater tragedy than the death of an 85-year-old, because all other things are never equal.

    Mr. Singer never said that all other things were equal. He specifically states in his article that the teenager may not be as moral as the old man, but because hospitals are not allowed to consider this as a reason for nontreatment, so we should not consider it as part of our reasoning for determining who deserves care. He simply states that the teenager has more remaining years of life than the 85-year-old man.

    The “quality” of life is not encompassed by one’s physical wholeness.

    Are you saying that your life would be no different if you were a quadriplegic? Singer does not argue in this article that people with quadriplegia are not happy at all or never get enjoyment from life. He simply states that their overall quality of life, which does include ability to perform any manner of physical activities, is lower as you will have to admit that quadriplegics are limited by their condition. He discusses the idea of QALYs which are affected by tasks you can perform and how much a disability affects your daily activities.

    Singer is merely saying that our philosophies on healthcare decisions about people who currently have different qualities of life have some inconsistencies.

    As to your quotes from Practical Ethics, I will not address them as I have not read it in its entirety. I would not want to commit the same errors as you have and take quotes entirely out of context.

    In addition, “I think, therefore I am” does not mean what people generally think it means. It is only a prelude to Descartes’ argument for the existence of God. He had to prove that he himself existed before he could begin proving the existence of God.

    Finally, since when has Peter Singer been an advisor to President Obama? Perhaps you should have read the article more carefully instead of posing ad hominem attacks.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    I remember the first time you ignorantly tried to use it after I taught it to you, Wankertized! I had to correct your spelling then, too!

  • sayanything-4625

    Right and in our current system, whoever has more money lives. So that teenager who hasn’t had a chance to make enough dies while the 85 year old lives. For a year or two more because he is already past the average American life span.

    So now old people have a duty to die? You do realize that not to long ago, older people were valued because they had the survival skill to, well, survive to old and while teenagers were a dime a dozen and had to prove their value.

  • Euryphaessa

    Proof, the word different may not mean better or worse, but would your quality of life (including the ability to perform everyday physical tasks) be better as a quadriplegic or as a person with 4 fully functional limbs? There are many people who have productive, fulfilling lives that are quadriplegic, like Stephen Hawking, who suffers from ALS. However, I’m sure that if you asked them if their lives would be improved with the regained use of their limbs, they would say yes.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Because my previous post was mostly a lie.

    Confession is good for the soul, Rezistik!

  • Hannitized

    Advisor is yet another word Poofie is unfamiliar with.

    You are doing a great job of handing this lad his patoot, but it is falling on deaf ears. He has made his mind up, and no amount of facts or logic will get in the way.

    Who’s to say that a quadriplegic who loves live (SIC) should be denied medical treatment because “statistically” quadriplegics may have a degraded quality of life over paraplegics?

    The horrendous spelling aside, his honesty will not be shattered by the fact that a quadriplegic will have a life that will consist of few experiences and fewer joys, but a life worth loving nevertheless.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Here’s a clue: The old people already ARE under a government system…the system FAILED old people.

    Dino makes an eloquent argument for why the government should not be entrusted with any more of our healthcare system!

  • Euryphaessa

    Actually, I don’t believe I made up any coincidence theory, but you were nice enough to do that for me. I generally hold to the theory that when politicians start talking about an issue, people feel the need to have opinions about it in the form of op-eds and even blogs, so it’s just a lovely coincidence that you chose to write about it too.

    An op-ed doesn’t mean that anybody has to do anything about it. It’s meant to get the discussion going, no matter which direction it goes. Peter Singer is one person with no political job; he’s a controversial professor at a university that holds a utilitarian view on bioethics.

    On the other hand, there are millions of voters that, overall, have a greater say in the matter than he does. Each of them has his or her own mind and will form their own opinions based on more than Singer’s position or anyone else’s. I think you have naught to fear from Singer.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Race baiting troll:
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  • Farm4$

    He simply states that their overall quality of life, which does include ability to perform any manner of physical activities, is lower as you will have to admit that quadriplegics are limited by their condition. He discusses the idea of QALYs which are affected by tasks you can perform and how much a disability affects your daily activities.

    Charles Krouthamer . (sorry about the spelling, I don’t have time to look it up, but you get the point) Is in a wheel chair and I don’t recall seeing him move his arms. If I got the story straight, it was an accident that left him quadriplegic. Should a man with his mind be put to death ??? (i know the left would like that but really )

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Are you saying that your life would be no different if you were a quadriplegic?

    No. That’s as nonsensical as Singer’s position. But different does not necessarily equal better or worse. Who’s to say that a quadriplegic who loves live should be denied medical treatment because “statistically” quadriplegics may have a degraded quality of life over paraplegics?

    Is a man with a prosthetic limb less of a man than one without?
    Singer would give you the mathematical formula for it!

    They stole an entire generations inheritance, for all intensive purposes

    That would be “intents and” purposes. How about we give morphine and fluff the pillows of all graduates of the Vermont public school system*? That could raise the national IQ overnight!

    *Most prominent alumnus: Sparkie Carbuncle

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Mr. Singer never said that all other things were equal. He specifically states in his article that the teenager may not be as moral as the old man, but because hospitals are not allowed to consider this as a reason for nontreatment, so we should not consider it as part of our reasoning for determining who deserves care. He simply states that the teenager has more remaining years of life than the 85-year-old man.

    That’s not his argument at all. Few would argue that an elderly person has as many years left as a teenager. He specifically states that the life of the elderly person is of less value than that of the teen. This is something he argues a lot.

    The difference between medical triage and human value is thousands of miles apart.

    Are you saying that your life would be no different if you were a quadriplegic? Singer does not argue in this article that people with quadriplegia are not happy at all or never get enjoyment from life. He simply states that their overall quality of life, which does include ability to perform any manner of physical activities, is lower as you will have to admit that quadriplegics are limited by their condition. He discusses the idea of QALYs which are affected by tasks you can perform and how much a disability affects your daily activities.

    No, again. He states that their overall worth is less than a person with four working limbs. And, by this logic, losing any limb would make someone worth less as a person. This is a moral, not a legal or medical argument.

    When we start arguing who DESERVES to live or die as an absolute, we are useless as a society.

  • sayanything-4625

    I understand, see Micheal Crichton’s State of Fear.

  • Euryphaessa

    Proof, I believe we were not arguing about whether a quadriplegic person’s life is worth living, if you’ve understood my statements properly, but its relative quality of life compared to that of a completely healthy person.

    Regardless of spelling or grammar, Hannitized is right about how solutions can be found through recognizing commonalities.

    Also, I’m loathe to inform that I don’t believe Hannitized was agreeing with you at all or acting like a child as you are.

    Farm4$, no one is suggesting that a man should be put to death because he is quadriplegic. A QALY is merely an assessment of a person’s overall quality of life including physical and mental aspects. As I have already stated, many people with such disabilities lead very fulfilling lives, but would perhaps like to regain the use of their limbs if given the opportunity because it would be seen as an improvement.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    why don’t we find areas where we can agree

    Most of us agree that Wankertized is full of crap! Should we start there?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    The ironic thing is, conservatives say they want to spend millions in that last year of life, giving heart transplants to 85 year olds, that sort of thing, they’re the first to freak out over any spending.

    Here’s a clue: The old people already ARE under a government system and they haven’t broken out the ice flows to set them on when they get sick. In fact, they get BETTER care than if they had to seek insurance on the open market. Can you imagine the premiums they’d pay if they could even get it with all the restrictions; pre-existing, etc? Kiss those inheritances bye bye, stems!

    See, the system FAILED old people. And now, since that the system is failing MORE people, it’s going to be augmented and replaced if it can’t DELIVER.

    Even those people who had great pensions and health care for life deals promised them by the exalted “free market” private sector, what happened to them? Oh, that’s right. Those good, much-smarter-than-government-worker capitalists have reneged on many of those agreements. So where does that leave old people if not for Medicare? NEEDING A SOLUTION.

    So the public sector had to FORCE A SOLUTION like they’re going to do this time.

    The free market has failed the financial sector, the health care sector, the real estate sector, the manufacturing sector. How much more failure do you people want to see? I know, lots of it because you lost the election and you’re always right and no one else can run the country but conservatives and you’re going to hold your breath until the democrats give back your ball.

    Kinda makes you sick when children act that way.

  • sayanything-4625

    How convenient. “I hate government programs and want them to fail or be abolished but I’m going to use them since I paid into them.”

    Dino, once you reach 65 you are forced to be a part of Medicare. If you do have insurance it becomes secondary insurance. Don’t let facts crap your brain though.

    Weak. If you don’t like the government programs, stop using them.

    If you don’t want me to use them don’t force me to be part of them and make me pay for them. Its hard not to use something I’m forced to use.

  • http://verizon.com/ ND in MD

    “…we’ll give a kickback to one of the officials in charge of that life saving drug, and see which one is chosen? Like that would never happen!…”

    And a former Illinois Governor would never ever try to sell a US Senate seat that suddenly became open for his own personal gain, would he?

    Since heath care would be rationed, would rationing apply equally to all or just to the great unwashed masses? Or would certain “special” people get the care they wanted? If I recall correctly, last summer then 76 year old US Senator Ted Kennedy had a new somewhat experimental procedure to treat his brain tumor. I am not sure, but he may have paid for the procedure himself, but the big question is: why should a man of his age, who is near the end of his normal life expectance, be allowed to have such a procedure? Applying the new mantra, why didn’t he do the socially conscious thing and accept his fate and just die? It would have been the responsible thing for him to do, right? Excuse me for sounding like a Democrat, but under Obummer Care will there be two Americas: one for the government elite and the other for the unwashed masses? Probably, you don’t expect the government to live by what they impose on others, do you?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Proof, the word different may not mean better or worse, but would your quality of life (including the ability to perform everyday physical tasks) be better as a quadriplegic or as a person with 4 fully functional limbs?

    Sorry. Intrinsic quality of life cannot be calculated by the number of functioning limbs one has. Quadriplegics might not be able to climb Mt. Everest, but neither can some computer nerds. Should we deny care to computer nerds based on their “quality of life”? Should Stephen Hawking or Charles Krauthammer have to go to the back of the healthcare bus because some rude teenager gets priority?

    Proof, I believe we were not arguing about whether a quadriplegic person’s life is worth living, if you’ve understood my statements properly, but its relative quality of life compared to that of a completely healthy person.

    And, forgive me, essentially meaningless to this conversation! I will grant you that the potential for a better quality of life will always rest with the healthiest, most whole individual. The question is, do we want to turn our healthcare over to a bureaucratic system known for its short sightedness, inefficiency, corruption and waste, only to have a depersonalized, mechanistic formula for who lives, who dies and who receives benefits that could improve the quality of ones life at whatever point it may already be?

  • 2Hotel9

    This headline,”Peter Singer Doesn’t Care if You Die” is misleading. Peter Singer WANTS people killed. That has been his position for decades. He calls people a viral infection upon the planet.

    Don’t take my word for it, take Peter Singer’s word for it. He will merrily tell you exactly what he believes.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Finally, since when has Peter Singer been an advisor to President Obama?

    You’re right! It’s just one big, freaking, honking coincidence that the New York Freaking Times runs an op-ed on rationing health care at a time when Obama is pushing for nationalized, rationed healthcare!

    If a reformed U.S. health care system explicitly accepted rationing, as I have argued it should, QALYs could play a similar role in the U.S.

    Which government is Singer arguing to adopt his positions? The government of Zimbabwe?
    And who might the head of that government be???
    Anybody at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue???

    Let’s go back to your coincidence theory! It makes a lot more sense than mine! /sarc

  • Bat One

    “Peter Singer Doesn’t Care if You Die

    Fair enough. I can’t imagine that anyone would much give a shit if Singer assumed room temperature this morning. I certainly wouldn’t!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Advisor is yet another word Poofie is unfamiliar with.

    BTW, Han-job, I am flattered that you choose to mimic me! (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.) But, along with you stalking me at both blogs, it’s starting to get just a little creepy, Wankertized, so just cut it out!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Ask the rest of America if they have $10,000 or even $1000 laying around for a test or a procedure that their insurance company did not pay.

    The financing of medical procedures was not my point. It is availability of services.

    Mark Steyn:

    Hamilton’s neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) was full when Ava Isabella Stinson was born 14 weeks premature at St. Joseph’s Hospital Thursday at 12:24 p.m.

    A provincewide search for an open NICU bed came up empty, leaving no choice but to send the two-pound, four-ounce preemie to Buffalo that evening.

    Well, it would be unreasonable to expect Hamilton, a city of half-a-million people just down the road from Canada’s largest city (Greater Toronto Area, five-and-a-half million) in the most densely populated part of Canada’s most populous province (Ontario, 13 million people) to be able to offer the same level of neonatal care as Buffalo, a post-industrial ruin in steep population decline for half-a-century.

    Poor little Ava Stinson was insured by the government. The rationing of the Canadian government meant there was no capacity to take care of her. This is not a heartless cry of “Screw the peons”. It is “don’t screw up a functioning health care system” because we will not have a benevolent neighbor to the south with better health care and capacity than we do!

  • Rezistik

    Right and in our current system, whoever has more money lives. So that teenager who hasn’t had a chance to make enough dies while the 85 year old lives. For a year or two more because he is already past the average American life span.

  • sayanything-4625

    I forgot to add, the my employer has to match my 1.4% so the total amount paid to the government is 2.8% for Medicare.

  • sayanything-4625

    Then when your relatives get old, don’t take Medicare, ok? Pay for their bills yourself.

    I pay 1.4% of my income per month for Medicare Dino. I am paying for the bill myself. My relatives have had the same amount taken from their income so they have paid too. To Democrats you should be thankful that a service you paid for your whole life under the guise of “insurance” is a gift from government. Thanks for playing though.

  • sayanything-4625

    These kind would gladly sterilize all of Africa, sterilize all those brown skin people out there, sterilize the white poor, sterilize, sterilize, sterilize. They live in a mad delusional little world where mankind is going to overwhelm them in a tidal wave of flesh any moment. They have a sociocultural paranoia and claustrophobia that they can’t shake as well as a deep fear and loathing of the other, which they cannot understand.

    Suite they would gladly sterilize most people, after all, we in Alabama didn’t go to the Friends School or any of the tony Northeastern Schools. That goes for most places in flyover country too.

  • SigFan

    You do realize that not to long ago, older people were valued because they had the survival skill to, well, survive to old and while teenagers were a dime a dozen and had to prove their value.

    This is one of the main reasons that we have so many of the issues we do today. At one time, and as you point out, not that long ago, elders were revered for their knowledge, their wisdom and their experiences in life. Sometime in the 60′s IMO that started to change and young people (myself at that time) started to think we were the center of the universe and the only smart ones on the planet. The hubris of youth has always been around, but it was at one time tempered with the knowledge that disrepect for your elders would result in unpleasant consequences. That attitude has perpetuated and superannuated to the point where we can even think it is acceptable to have a discussion about whether an older person’s life is worth saving. This is the disgustingly low point that society and liberalism-progressivism has brought us to, and the subscribers to that ideology only want to bring it lower.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Because he can pay it for himself fuck the peons

    I never said that ellinas. If you want to start a mind reading act, start with a mind! I was illustrating the difference between government rationing and our current system. The rest is just your mindless projection!

  • Rezistik

    So now old people have a duty to die? You do realize that not to long ago, older people were valued because they had the survival skill to, well, survive to old and while teenagers were a dime a dozen and had to prove their value.

    I’m not saying they have a duty to die. I am saying we need a new system. Because my previous post was mostly a lie. Sure the person with the most money will live. And the person with the least money will probably also live. The person in the middle is fucked for the most part. Our current system delivers a blow to the middle class. Any preexisting condition would keep a person out of the health care system fending for themselves.

    Not necessarily, but no matter what system we put in place people are always going to die.

    Better a system where I can buy all the health care I want, knowing that I might not be able to afford all I need, then a system where my access is limited for the sake of universal access.

    I understand that. I also understand no politician cares if I live nor die. It is also true that no business man cares if I live or die. Especially not if I cost him more money than I can give him.

    I don’t in anyway advocate socialized health care. Quite the opposite actually. After reading and watching Peter Schiff, I’ve become much more libertarian and believe our problems with health care are caused by the current system. It is the same problem with tuition costs. Student loans and scholarships made money more available to students, and because of this schools continually raised the prices of their tuition. To the point where a decent school costs more than the average American makes in a year. We need to fix the way insurance in this country is run and that doesn’t necessarily mean giving its running over to the government, it means changing who is running it though, or rather how it is run.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Right and in our current system, whoever has more money lives.

    Nice straw man, Rez! You trying out for the Wizard of Oz? Anyone who cannot afford healthcare can receive it at the nearest emergency room.
    Do you personally know of any 18 yr. olds who died because they did not have money for healthcare?

  • Bat One

    Unfortunately, Hannitized is a poseur, pretending to want honest and rational discussions, but he is often the first to indulge in the type of ad hominems he claims he dislikes! One does not “recognize commonalities” by constantly accusing the people one merely disagrees with of “lying”, as he does constantly with Rob and myself.

    Proof,

    A truly epic bit of understatement. Bravo!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    So we have it now

    No, we don’t. If my insurance company does not want to pay for a test or a procedure, I can pay for it myself. If the government decides the allocation of all medical resources, and decides that I am too old, or don’t have enough limbs or make health decisions the government does not approve of, then I would be forced to leave the country, the way Canadians circumvent their system today.
    If our country goes the way of Canada, which country will we be able to flee to for help when ours fails us?

  • 2Hotel9

    Let me translate rez’s teenybopper logic. rez wants it for free, and he wants it right now because he does not care what happens to old people. All that false self esteem has filled him with the belief he is just so darned important that he deserves anything he asks for, for free of course, because it is his right.

    No thanks needed, just doing my civic duty in clearing up that misunderstanding.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    ignore the ad hominems.

    I’m beginning to regret ever teaching you that particular phrase, Wankertized!

  • robert108

    Right and in our current system, whoever has more money lives.

    If it weren’t for the greedy govt killing prosperity with taxation, regulation and confiscating private capital, more people would have more money. The truth is, without govt interference in healthcare, it would be affordable to the vast majority of Americans. That’s what the free market does.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    I apologize for lumping you in with the trolls, ellinas! You might try not to emulate them so closely!

  • Pilgrim

    So…just who will it be who decides whose life is of more value than another?

    Anyone – ANYONE – who puts themselves (or puts others) in that position are very, very dangerous.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    The financing of medical procedures was my point

    Then start your own thread and don’t pollute mine with your fruitless mind reading attempts!

  • Rezistik

    Confession is good for the soul, Rezistik!

    I like to think so.

  • sayanything-4625

    Just my opinion

    Good point.

  • Rezistik

    Let me translate rez’s teenybopper logic. rez wants it for free, and he wants it right now because he does not care what happens to old people. All that false self esteem has filled him with the belief he is just so darned important that he deserves anything he asks for, for free of course, because it is his right.

    Yeah…uhm…I’ve never said that. Or acted like that. In my last post I stated that the government is probably not the answer. I even stated it is part of the problem. And that providing a public option in both health care and education has driven up cost. But …Y’know… while we’re at it though. I’ve only ever heard the term “teenybopper” in hardcore pornography. Am I attractive to you? I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in most parts of the US.

  • http://www.rovianconspiracy.com/ St Wendeler

    Singer’s also a fan of schtupping your pet… since we’re all just big apes, there’s nothing wrong with exploring mutually pleasurable activities with other species.

    Glad he came out in favor of Obama-care. Perhaps people will start to be as frightened as I am of an all powerful state looking to “experts” like Singer for guidance.

  • Rooster

    Hello all I am New to this site. I just would like to point out that eventually all of us will be old and at any time we could become crippled in a number of ways. Do you want someone else deciding for you what is your ‘quality of life’ or whether or not your worth saving? Personally, I think it is my duty to take care of me and my family and you to take care of yours. The government needs to stay out of it.

    Just my opinion.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Personally, I think it is my duty to take care of me and my family and you to take care of yours.

    Then when your relatives get old, don’t take Medicare, ok? Pay for their bills yourself.

  • http://northerngleaner.blogspot.com/ Gene

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t health care rationing EXACTLY what insurance companies do EVERY STINKING DAY. They decide who lives, who dies, who gets what or doesn’t.

    So we have it now, what’s the big deal. OH and for the record I don’t want the guys at the post office rationing MY healthcare, but we have it now, I suspect this can be done in PRIVATE enterprise.

    OR am I wrong?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    How convenient. “I hate government programs and want them to fail or be abolished but I’m going to use them since I paid into them.”

    Why? Why not stop using them? Because you want to get your money’s worth? Ok, then I should start getting my money back for public education. I don’t use it. No kids. I pay more for public education than I do Medicare.

    Weak. If you don’t like the government programs, stop using them.

    mtnbkr1503, you’d have more options under Obama’s plan but asa conservative, you don’t know what you’re talking about. As costs escalate and more people lose coverage and pay much more, remember that you didn’t want to see any changes.

  • 2Hotel9

    Is this the tune you will sing when government run healthcare cuts off your AIDS drug treatment?

  • Rooster

    Dino
    I pay my taxes and do pay for my families health care needs with premiums. I further pay anything that my health care provider does not and if I do not agree with decisions made by my provider I have options of obtaining a new provider, paying myself, etc. Under Obama’s plan I would lose all these options and be told what services the government decides my family needs and we all know with the government ‘all decisions are final’ even if they are wrong. I chose to think for my self and not let big brother do my thinking for me.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing

  • 2Hotel9

    Now Biker! Shame on you, making dinothefakehomo cry. Forty lashes with a wet noodle for you!

  • robert108

    It never crossed his mind that the majority of Americans cannot pay.

    Any evidence to support your claim, faggot?

  • ellinas


    Peter Singer Doesn’t Care if You Die


    By Proof on July 15, 2009 at 05:35 pm

    Neither does Proof:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t health care rationing EXACTLY what insurance companies do EVERY STINKING DAY. They decide who lives, who dies, who gets what or doesn’t.
    So we have it now, what’s the big deal.
    Gene on July 17, 2009 at 05:09 am


    So we have it now

    No, we don’t. If my insurance company does not want to pay for a test or a procedure, I can pay for it myself.
    Proof on July 17, 2009 at 05:56 am

    There you have it. Because he can pay it for himself fuck the peons. It never crossed his mind that the majority of Americans cannot pay. Let the peons eat shit and die. That will teach ‘em for not saving enough.
    Like I said in another thread. With conservatives it is about “me, me and mine. Fuck the rest.”

  • 2Hotel9

    Oh, and only welfare whores such as e can not pay for their healthcare. That is why she has spent her entire life stealing other people’s money by being a welfare whore.

  • 2Hotel9

    Ain’t that cute?!? e still thinks it has an opinion. Bless its little heart.

  • Rooster

    Dino,
    First you are correct, I am FORCED to pay into existing Government programs, so yes I fully intend to use them, or would you rather We pay in and give it to an illegal, who does not? (see parasite). The reason you pay taxes for education is the same reason we all do, because we are forced too or go to jail.

    ellinas,
    Who should it be about. You? If your so magnanimous, I will be happy to let you pay for mine :)
    I am not rich or powerful, I am one of the ‘peons’ you speak of, but I don’t whine and cry about it, I get up, go to work and provide for my family and expect others to do the same. Too much to ask? I don’t think so, what did our ancestors do before Government handouts? They worked and made their own way.

  • Rezistik

    Oh, and only welfare whores such as e can not pay for their healthcare. That is why she has spent her entire life stealing other people’s money by being a welfare whore.

    A welfare whore? How am I the child here? Grow up a little why don’t you?

    There you have it. Because he can pay it for himself fuck the peons. It never crossed his mind that the majority of Americans cannot pay. Let the peons eat shit and die. That will teach ‘em for not saving enough.
    Like I said in another thread. With conservatives it is about “me, me and mine. Fuck the rest.”

    Of course that is how it is. They hide it by saying that this provides cheaper health care and is therefore more accessible and better. But our current system fails the Middle class and the lower class quite a bit. We need a new system to take advantage of the many life saving and more efficient techniques.

  • Rezistik

    what did our ancestors do before Government handouts? They worked and made their own way.

    They also died of common ailments…

  • 2Hotel9

    “They also died of common ailments…” Thats life, get over yourself.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    gop health care plan: Err on the side of strife.

  • Rezistik

    “They also died of common ailments…” Thats life, get over yourself.

    And yet it’s not life anymore. Often due to a mix of people who wanted to help the world and those who sought money.

    I’m just saying comparing todays health care to our ancestors is foolish. It is two separate things.

  • robert108

    gop health care plan: Err on the side of strife.

    What’s your plan, little parrot? Can you state it in your own words, using facts, logic and causal reasoning? Can you explain in detail how it would improve things?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Big 180, we took care of that on another thread.

    Big 180′s health care plan:

    If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it…

    robert108 on August 1, 2008 at 02:22 pm

  • Rooster

    Not because they ‘leeched’ off their neighbors, it was because doctors and drugs were not what they are today. If they went to the doctor, they paid there own bill either in money or trade. They did not expect someone else to pay it, that idea didn’t come along until we ‘progressed’.

  • robert108

    Big 180, we took care of that on another thread.

    Just another cherry-picked, out of context lie from you, little parrot.

    What’s your plan? Please give us all the details, using facts, logic and causal reasoning.
    Lying about mine(which involves affordable healthcare provided by free market forces) isn’t the same as giving yours.

    Anything? Anything?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Ya got me there Big 180.

    Your quote was really about people obtaining drinking water after an emergency.

    Please refer to the other thread about what I’d like to see a health care plan look like.

  • robert108

    Your quote was really about people obtaining drinking water after an emergency.

    Another lie from you, little parrot. It was about wasteful govt social spending to get people things they can’t afford by taking money from other Americans. It would have also prevented the housing bubble.

  • robert108

    Enough of your lying distractions, little parrot! In your own words, using facts, logic and causal reasoning, please give your solution to the healthcare situation, if you can.
    Put up or shut up, narcissist.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Big 180, thanks for the laugh!

    You have never answered one of my direct questions and here you are using histrionics to get an answer from me that we already covered on another thread.

    You’re a pip, Big 180!

  • robert108

    You have never answered one of my direct questions…

    Another lie from you, little parrot. I have answered all your questions that were straight and honest(a very small number, to be sure), and have even, after correcting your wrong assumptions, answered many of your highly agendized, manipulative “questions”. I don’t answer your stalking questions or your social networking questions, unless you reveal your true agenda, which you never do.

    Anything on topic, little parrot? What’s your solution for healthcare, using facts, logic and causal reasoning?
    You seem to have no trouble lying, but seem unable to tell the truth, even when it’s your own truth.
    Why is that, little parrot?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Big 180, please refer to the other tread where I answered your question.

    Here are a few of my direct questions you have yet to answer:

    If the presidential election were held today, who would you vote for?

    In your opinion, who are the con leaders in the gop?

    And this one from earlier this morning:

    Did Sanford lie?

  • robert108

    Big 180, please refer to the other tread where I answered your question.

    I asked the question on this thread, and with your skills at cutting and pasting, it should be no problem for you to do that here. Unless you really don’t have an answer, of course.
    You never seem to tire of cutting and pasting your lies over and over again, so why do you have a problem with cutting and pasting something you claim to be your truth?

    If you reveal the motivation for those questions, and if I’m satisfied with your answers, I’ll answer them.
    You never ask honest questions, only agendized questions. Furthermore, as I have already explained, your disgusting habit of using personal information for stalking and lying smear purposes is a very good reason not to answer any personal questions from you.
    Explain yourself, and I’ll think about it.

  • robert108

    BTW, little parrot, four personal questions is not “never”, so you lied.
    As I have told you many times, it’s very hard to take a liar like you seriously when you complain about anyone else lying, even when they are actually lying.
    You have no credibility on that score.

  • ellinas

    If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it…
    robert108 on August 1, 2008 at 02:22 pm

    Your quote was really about people obtaining drinking water after an emergency.

    Another lie from you, little parrot. It was about wasteful govt social spending to get people things they can’t afford by taking money from other Americans.
    robert108 on July 17, 2009 at 09:22 am

    Here it is again. Because he can pay it for himself fuck the peons. Because “If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it….” Let the peons eat shit and die. That will teach ‘em for not saving enough.
    Like I said in another thread. With conservatives it is about “me, me and mine. Fuck the rest.”
    No further proof required.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Please refer to my answer found on the thread where you originally asked that question.

    It is obvious that you are incapable, either from ignorance or embarrassment, to answer even a simple direct question.

    I am though with you for today.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    through

  • robert108

    Here it is again. Because he can pay it for himself fuck the peons. Because “If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it….” Let the peons eat shit and die. That will teach ‘em for not saving enough.
    Like I said in another thread. With conservatives it is about “me, me and mine. Fuck the rest.”
    No further proof required.

    More lies and distortions from a usual source of same. The saying is really a statement about living within your means, a concept completely beyond the ability of the average leftie’s comprehension.

    If it weren’t for lies, you two little buttbuddies would have nothing.

  • ellinas

    What was said:

    Ya got me there Big 180.
    Your quote was really about people obtaining drinking water after an emergency.
    realitybasedbob on July 17, 2009 at 09:08 am

    The quote:

    If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it…
    robert108 on August 1, 2008 at 02:22 pm

    Now observe and learn how a lying liar lies spins and twists the truth:

    Another lie from you, little parrot. It was about wasteful govt social spending to get people things they can’t afford by taking money from other Americans.robert108 on July 17, 2009 at 09:22 am

    More lies and distortions from a usual source of same. The saying is really a statement about living within your means, a concept completely beyond the ability of the average leftie’s comprehension.
    If it weren’t for lies, you two little buttbuddies would have nothing.
    robert108 on July 17, 2009 at 10:59 am

    This esteemed right wing loon,explained and lied about what he meant, two different ways within approximately 1.5 hrs.
    Need I say more?

    PS: His quote was really about people obtaining drinking water after an emergency.

  • ellinas

    Proof. Please forgive me for using your name to illustrate my point. You don’t have to say it. It is the way it is with cons: Me, me, and mine.
    No mindless projection. A lot of thought and carefull consideration.
    You may be able to afford it. Ask the rest of America if they have $10,000 or even $1000 laying around for a test or a procedure that their insurance company did not pay.

  • ellinas

    The financing of medical procedures was not my point. It is availability of services.
    Proof on July 17, 2009 at 07:08 pm

    The financing of medical procedures was my point. It was not the availability of services.

  • ellinas

    This is not a heartless cry of “Screw the peons”.
    Proof on July 17, 2009 at 07:08 pm

    On the surface no. It is not.
    If you close your eyes, remove the ear wax and concentrate you will hear the echo of “don’t screw up a functioning health care system”. What you will hear is the heartless cry of “Screw the peons” for reasons I allready explained.

  • ellinas

    Then start your own thread and don’t pollute mine with your fruitless mind reading attempts!
    Proof on July 17, 2009 at 07:58 pm

    Trying to silence the opposition?
    If you unleash aimless/mindless torpedoes, take into consideration that others will attach a proper guidance system to to you partisan fact ignoring rantings.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Trying to silence the opposition?

    Silence you by giving you a different forum? You’re a strange little troll, aren’t you, ellinas?

  • Hannitized

    Don’t feed the race baiting trolls like Poofie, e. Do yourself a favor and ignore the ad hominems. e

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    ellinas – Like I said in another thread. With conservatives it is about “me, me and mine. Fuck the rest.”

    Weird, considering that they’re the group who gives the most to charity.

    But let not the facts get in the way of your attacks on those who do not wish to expand the deadly and careless government. Fuck the freedom, right ellinas?

  • 2Hotel9

    I love how all our resident leftards are 100% in support of Peter Singer’s genocide solution, the way the all go along with killing off the elderly, the infirm, the handicapped and the unborn. All the while screeching that they are the compassionate and morally superior “Party”.

    Here is a clue, your boy Barri has said that any healthcare plan he signs WILL ration healthcare. It WILL restrict your ability to buy pharmaceuticals and none medical therapies. It will carry heavy criminal penalties for people who try to get more healthcare than the government allows them to have.

    And you guys are all onboard with that. That makes you all morally inferior, to a dog.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    because we will not have a benevolent neighbor to the south with better health care and capacity than we do!

    You’ve yet to provide anything beyond a few anecdotes of people from Canada seeking health care in the US. Well, there was the lying woman with the “brain tumor” that wasn’t really a brain tumor who is a paid shill of the republican party.

    Surely there is some data put together by the very powerful and rich health care and insurance industries that supports those claims? Wouldn’t you think? Proof? Whistler? Rob? Anybody? Bueller?

  • ellinas

    Weird, considering that they’re the group who gives the most to charity.

    But let not the facts get in the way of your attacks on those who do not wish to expand the deadly and careless government. Fuck the freedom, right ellinas?
    likwidshoe on July 17, 2009 at 09:18 pm

    Fuck freedom? Speak for yourself.

    Let us look at who is giving the most to charity.
    I live in Stockton. One of the richest Americans,ardent supporter of everything republican and conservative,and of Greek decent to boot named Alex Spanos (a real estate developer) also lives in Stockton.
    He is a multi-billionaire. He gives a lot to charity. A whole lot more than I do. I wonder if his punk ass would give the same amounts if it weren’t for the tax deductions.
    Now as a percentage of my income I give far more than he does.
    And I believe this to be true throughout the United States regardless of political affiliation.

    I will let you know that this charitable man, instead of paying a good wage to carpenters and workers associated with the building trades, brought in workers from other states, and payed sub par wages. Also during the recent housing boom, none of the workers at his housing and commercial developments spoke English. Spanish was the language spoken. Very charitable of him.

  • robert108

    The result of the greedy Dem legislature in CA, forcing businesses out of the State with their taxes and regulations.
    Your class envy whining is typical, lgf, along with your usual lying about everything.

  • ellinas

    Silence you by giving you a different forum? You’re a strange little troll, aren’t you, ellinas?
    Proof on July 17, 2009 at 08:50 pm

    Come on now brother Proof. Be honest. You said something, left it intentionally incomplete and or did not think about it. I caught you, and pointed to your erroneous position. You took offense.
    By me, having a different forum would have allowed you to slip by your very partisan position, which does not take into consideration of the ability of Americans to pay for that which the insurance did not.

  • ellinas

    To whom it concern: I do not respond to idiots,wing nuts, loons, and deranged individuals such as robert180.

  • ellinas

    Carrick. You are mistaken. But you are free to believe what you want.
    If we assume that your position is true, how do you explain the hiring of illegal Mexicans, and not non union carpenters and other non union workers of the building trades as he did in the past?

  • ellinas

    Don’t feed the race baiting trolls like Poofie, e. Do yourself a favor and ignore the ad hominems. e
    Hannitized on July 17, 2009 at 08:59 pm

    Brother Hannitized.I ignore ad hominems, intentional redirections, the moving of the goal posts and idiots like robert180.
    I like 2H9 because he is an unadulterated specimen of a neocon. He does not pretend to be civilized. What you see is what you get.
    Plus he brings out the best in me. Makes my dick hard when he talks dirty.

  • 2Hotel9

    “I like 2H9 because he is an unadulterated specimen of a neocon.”

    And there you go again, spewing your hatred for Jews. Wow, being a welfare whore all your life has made you a bitter, ignorant cunt.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    I don’t know about Proof’s long rant against Singer, but 75%-90% of one’s health care costs at the end of life come in the last three months. Don’t waste the dough, just give em some morphine and fluff their pillow. Sad, fucked up maybe, but come on. Who’s going to bloviate about how we should waste dough stringing out the lives of these suffering old people just because their familiy members are too selfish to let them go respectably. It’s time to talk about this shit, like it or not — Especially when Grandma doesn’t have the dough. And, thanks to a group of shoddy bankers let loose by assinine deregulation, it looks like lots of Grandmas ain’t going to have the dough soon. They stole an entire generations inheritance, for all intensive purposes. Get talkin’…

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Remember Star Trek? Remember Doc McCoy giving someone a hypo-spray of some compound, aiming a device at them for a few minutes, and their healing being relatively quick?

    Really, what does that cost? Practically nothing.

    Will that matter to the government when that kind of medicine arrives?

    No.

    Singer is exactly the sort who should tell you why. Their fellow human being is their worst enemy in their eyes and should be controlled in population, reduced in population, and even exterminated, all because they hate their fellow humans so much.

    These kind would gladly sterilize all of Africa, sterilize all those brown skin people out there, sterilize the white poor, sterilize, sterilize, sterilize. They live in a mad delusional little world where mankind is going to overwhelm them in a tidal wave of flesh any moment. They have a sociocultural paranoia and claustrophobia that they can’t shake as well as a deep fear and loathing of the other, which they cannot understand.

    You want a future where things we spend thousands on today to merely treat the symptoms of are actually cured in days instead with just a few minor first-aid type actions? You want a world of healthy happy prosperous people where there’s practically no labor to be done? You want that Star Trek future? THEY DON’T. They seriously see stuff like Logan’s Run being more likely and are working damned hard to make our future that shitty.

    What have I said a thousand times before? If the goal is for the government to maximize its income which comes from the taxation of the public’s income, then it would logically behoove the government to maximize the income of the public at every opportunity so as to have the largest possible take.

    We can all see they never ever do this.

    Instead, they pick and choose who they think should win, and it isn’t the poor and lower class, it isn’t those non-white people, it’s the upper middle class white liberals that they come from, and all the while they call other people racist as their own polices have led to minority illegitimacy rates, crime rates, and other ills to skyrocket.

    Singer is a good example. Sotamayor is another. If anyone thinks those lilly white libs truly gives a damn about Sotamayor and isn’t thinking white supremacist thoughts, they’re nuts. If they think Obama has any true respect, forget it. White libs are racists as we’ve had proven by the trolls on this forum repeatedly and they are only comfortable with whitest black man ever in politics as long as he wears a suit and speaks perfect English. Those other not so white black people can stay in the projects or poor neighborhoods and keep distant as far as they’re concerned.

    This is another reason conservatives keep losing: you’re being entirely too wishful and entirely too compassionate and not seeing your opponents for the truly twisted people they are. Ann Coulter is roundly excoriated for her hyperbole against the left, but what causes that hyperbole is the anger and what causes the anger towards the left is that lack of understanding. You keep assuming that they are sane and have just made a wrongheaded choice of political views.

    They are not sane, they are not normal, they are emotionally and psychologically twisted people, who are fearful of everything and have no idea what would make them happy, and pursue that unknown happiness and lack of fear with fanatic desperation and that is what drives them. It isn’t for nothing that in the intellectual poseur youth of academe that leftism spreads so readily. That group is rife with that sort of neurotic confusion and emotional chaos. Liberalism don’t make people nuts, it attracts people who are already on the road to fully being nuts.

    Stop thinking you’re speaking about rational people. They aren’t.

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    Don’t miss the important underpinning Greg. It has nothing to do with regionalism, politics, etc. It is strictly a deep and abiding lack of understanding of the other, an inability to relate to the other, an inability to see their self in the other, and when that goes on for a while, it results in escalating frustration, and anger.

    They are cynical and dubious about the future and see only the worst in mankind. Even in themselves. They only superficially seem to be doing anything, but since they deep down don’t believe in the very species they are a part of or themselves specifically, they kneecap anything they do and make their dire predictions of doom start to happen. The art of the self-fulfilling prophecy is strong with mankind.

    Pay attention to the enviroapocalyptic writings from the sixties onward. Overpopulation, ice age, global warming, pesticides, you name it. There’s ALWAYS something in the world they seize on and see the worst in and because they believe it can go wrong, they believe it must and they work to make that happen subconsciously. They do not love you, me, or themselves or their very species. They hate and loathe humanity and believe in only the worst possibilities and they act on those beliefs.

    See them for the seriously malformed people they are before it is too late.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Right and in our current system, whoever has more money lives.

    Not necessarily, but no matter what system we put in place people are always going to die.

    Better a system where I can buy all the health care I want, knowing that I might not be able to afford all I need, then a system where my access is limited for the sake of universal access.

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