Paul Kirk Cannot Legally Cast The 60th Vote For The Health Care Bill After Tuesday

Paul Kirk is the man appointed to fill the Senate seat vacated by Ted Kennedy by Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick until a special election could be held. Scott Brown and Martha Coakley are running in that special election to replace Kirk.
And it looks like, according to the law and Senate precedent, Kirk cannot be the 60th vote for the health care bill after Tuesday (despite his promise to cast such a vote regardless of the special election outcome). Which raises the already sky-high stakes in that Massachusetts race.

Appointed Senator Paul Kirk will lose his vote in the Senate after Tuesday’s election in Massachusetts of a new senator and cannot be the 60th vote for Democratic health care legislation, according to Republican attorneys. …
But in the days after the election, it is Kirk’s status that matters, not Brown’s. Massachusetts law says that an appointed senator remains in office “until election and qualification of the person duly elected to fill the vacancy.” The vacancy occurred when Senator Edward Kennedy died in August. Kirk was picked as interim senator by Governor Deval Patrick.
Democrats in Massachusetts have talked about delaying Brown’s “certification,” should he defeat Democrat Martha Coakley on Tuesday. Their aim would be to allow Kirk to remain in the Senate and vote the health care bill.
But based on Massachusetts law, Senate precedent, and the U.S. Constitution, Republican attorneys said Kirk will no longer be a senator after election day, period. Brown meets the age, citizenship, and residency requirements in the Constitution to qualify for the Senate. “Qualification” does not require state “certification,” the lawyers said.

Ed Morrissey notes that Senate pay rules affirm this position:

The pay date for a new Senator who wins a special election starts the following day after the polls close. Republican John Tower of Texas and then-Democrat Strom Thurmond are both precedents for this action. In both cases, their terms started on the day after election, even though it took weeks for their certification by the state.

There’s some precedent for this within the last year as well. Democrats attempted to block Senator Roland Burris, whose appointment to replace Obama’s vacated Senate seat was tainted by Rod Blagojevich’s attempts to sell it to the highest bidder, but ultimately had to cave when they could find no legal reason to deny him his seat. As we learned in that case, Senate rules only recommend that a Senator not be seated until a state certification has been conducted.
But such a certification isn’t required.
Also, remember that when Bill Owens won in the New York 23 race he was rushed to Washington DC and sworn in by Nancy Pelosi before all the votes were even counted so that he could vote for the House version of the health care bill. In fact, there was some worry that the count of the absentee ballots might have shown that he actually lost, though that never panned out. Even so, the Democrats would have to reconcile their actions in that race with their actions in trying to delay Brown being seated in front of an already antagonized and skeptical public.
Democrats are in a bad spot. If Coakley wins they’ve nothing to worry about. But if Brown wins, how much tomfoolery on sitting him is the public going to be willing to stomach? Especially on top of all they’ve already been forced to stomach in the process of pushing this health care bill through including inaccurate fiscal accountings of the bill and broken promises on transparency?
What’s more, if Democrat leadership attempts shenanigans on seating Brown it may well give some moderate Democrats they cover they need to distance themselves from a bill that is increasingly becoming an albatross around their necks. Rather than saying they’re voting against anything in the bill specifically, they can cast a protest vote over Brown’s exclusion.
Of course, again, this all hinges on Brown winning. And what happens beyond that is almost beyond prediction outside of saying that liberals will find themselves between a rock and a hard place.

Tags:


«
»
  • sayanything-287

    I understand WHFF frustration with his words being twisted, like your accusing him of wanting a theocracy when he never said any such thing, and similar lies by your friend rbb. So if he seemed a bit condemning of your life, it is, as I said, understandable given the circumstances of having to confront lies.

    I should first warn you that in the Gospels Jesus was talking to and dealing mostly with Jews, not Christians, as there were yet no Christians until after Calvary! So, one should be very careful about quoting Him and assuming He was talking to the Church, He was not in almost every case, although some references in the future sense can be found.

    None of the verses you provided either encouraged or approved in any way for Christians to have friendships (pals) with ungodly people in the world. Certainly all contact could not be prevented as there were so many of them as not to be avoided in the pursuit of commerce and other daily affairs. Certainly, even Jesus had meals with gross sinners, but for the sole purpose of offering them a way to escape God’s Wrath through the Salvation that was to come and healing from their many sins that He would soon provide, but again no such people were ever listed as His friends, his pals. These people had no part with Him, only a focus of His Love and Compassion.

    It is certainly true the passages you spoke of were referring to not having fellowship with members of the Church that were engaged in such acts, as in Corinth, the idea is to not have fellowship with them until they repent and then to fully restore them. Yet, you have failed to give me any teaching of the Spirit encouraging or approving of friendships (pals) with such people, please show me those passages. There are many other passages about children of the light not having not having fellowship (friends/pals) with children of darkness.

    Where you fail, I believe, is that like many calling themselves Christians, you seem to think that if you are pals with such people and wink at their misdeeds (wickedness) you are doing them a service. Surely, there is of a truth great value in bringing people like them to the Lord by loving even your enemies, doing good to those that abuse you and thus heap coals of fire upon their heads; but still, that does not mean even by silence approving of their sins or being their pals/friends. I have often said to rbb and others, I do care deeply for his everlasting soul and have tried to reach out to him, always to only be more savagely attacked. So, the best I can do considering his lying and hate filled nature, as kindly as possible, is to reject his lies and his attacks upon Christians and thereby upon Christ. Despite many attempts to engage in reasonable dialogue with, to reach out to him to develop not a friendship but a relationship, by his responses I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that he is more than just a sinner, the consistency of his lies and his hatred of the Church is clear evidence of demonic activity in his life, which demon spirits must be opposed, not encouraged or befriended. I am not taking to him in my comments, but the foul spirits talking through him.

    I have counseled and loved many gross sinners, tolerating terrible language and abuse, but they were reasonable people, it was possible to hold a decent and rational conversation with them, many finding Christ through patience, kindness and dialogue. But, when the person like your pal refuses to engage in rational dialogue nor ever hold a decent conversation, always being deceptive, always engaging in ridicule, asinine one-liner responses and saying irrational things like calling me pal when I have asked him not to or even after saying exactly the opposite of what he has said, he thanks me and others for agreeing with him. His delusions are beyond normal human self-deception, there is a spirit within him that is hateful of Christ and so, I am left with the only course of opposing him. If in private you are able to get beneath his mask and converse with him outside truly demonic conversations, God bless you and I pray you will over time be used of the Lord to save his soul. I can only say that approving, even if only by silence, his many sins, you are making your task nearly impossible.

    Whether it is him or Dino, I pray for them often and desire they be saved from the evil that controls their lives; and when they give me no other choice because they are beyond all human reason, all I have left is to point out their lies and their anti-Christian hatred.

    I am surprised that anyone claiming to be a Christian would be offended by those that claim in spirit, at least until recent decades, America has been a Christian Nation. Your opposition to that idea is baffling, as if the idea that in spirit from its founding until 1962 this was a Christian nation offends you. I would think it would please you to know of our past strong Christian identity and then give you great sorrow that it has moved so far from that place of God’s blessings.

    One last, important point: I have too often in the past gotten into the flesh when frustrated with him and have spoken to him in a most unChristian manner, errant behavior for which I have often profusely apologized and privately repented. So, as to my flesh I know I am as great a sinner as any man, only thank God, saved by Grace.

  • sayanything-287

    Every time you call me Pal you prove once again that you are an unapologetic, pathological liar and nothing else you say thereafter can possibly be the truth either. Don’t you get it yet? We are not pals and when you keep calling me pal you are lying!

    Please tell me where I said this was a Christian Nation, oops! You lied again, didn’t you? That is two strikes (lies), now let us go for three and out ->

    It is not contestable that we were founded by mostly Christian people, by mostly Christian Founding Father’s. From the time of our founding the nation was always extremely friendly towards the Christian faith in all their public affairs and they considered the Laws of God in drafting the Constitution. Thereafter, they remained very friendly in all their laws, judicial decisions and public acts towards the majority Christian faith in America. Today, while most are sadly carnal, we remain according to all the polls by a strong majority Christian people in America. So, while we have no national Christian denomination and we are not officially a Christian nation, we are a nation mostly of Christians, in all but name a Christian people.

    Strike Three!

    Lastly, before you can have any hope to have insights into what is or is not a true Christian, you first have to become one and by your own admission you are not a Christian at all, so you are woefully unqualified to make that judgment. If Jesus came back to earth today and/or any of the Apostles, I assure you that the world, your people, would still be deeply offended by them all and kill every one of them again and like then, you would still prefer a murderer to the Lord. It is said that the world, your people, during the Last Days will rejoice with great celebrations all over the world when the last two great prophets of God stand in Jerusalem and condemn the world, your people and are killed. It should be noted that three days later that joy will turn to fear when they rise from the dead. So, I am not surprised that you find any Christian offensive to your liberal, worldly tastes that does not pander to your lusts.

  • BartST

    Nice stated, Neiman

    We need to get more Christians to serve in public offices.

  • sayanything-51

    It’s obvious that you are an anti American radical wingnut.

  • sayanything-287

    Every time you call me Pal you prove once again that you are an unapologetic, pathological liar and nothing else you say thereafter can possibly be the truth either. Don’t you get it yet? We are not pals and when you keep calling me pal you know you are lying, but you lie anyway just because you enjoy lying! You said it twice in these comments making you twice the pathological liar you have always been.

    Another lie from you: “I never said that America was not founded in any sense on the Christian religion.” It was founded in many ways on the Christian religion and it was that Christian faith, because of the religious tyranny in the lands they came from that our Christian founders insisted on freedom of religion for everyone. They had the votes of the people, they could have insisted America be a Christian Nation, but these Christians more than anyone gave you the liberty you now enjoy.

    So three more times you lied. Twice up to bat and both times you went down swinging! You cannot help it, your father is the Prince of All Liars, like him the truth is not in you, not the most remote hint of truth, you have no relationship with the truth, you are to the core of your being a liar!

    Thank you for agreeing that you are a most damnable liar!

  • sayanything-5371

    Is a treaty a founding document, imbecile?

    Thanks for admitting that you are full of shyt and that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

  • sayanything-51

    Not according to my Old Pal.

  • sayanything-5371

    Here is a brief history of government and Christianity in America.

    A careful look into the past reveals landmarks which were essential in guiding America along the pathway that led us to where we are today. More often than not, at each one of these landmarks, there also appears irrefutable evidence that a sense of divine destiny accompanied the most important events of our history.

    Here in part are some of these landmarks:

    1490-1492 – Columbus’ commission was given to set out to find a new world.

    According to Columbus’ personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to “bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. …. It was the Lord who put into my mind … that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely … No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service.” (Columbus’ Book of Prophecies)

    April 10, 1606 – The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

    “To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God.”

    November 3, 1620 – King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

    “In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty.”

    November 11, 1620 – The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

    “For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith … doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick.”

    March 4, 1629 – The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

    “For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion..”

    January 14, 1638 – The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

    “To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe…”

    August 4, 1639 – The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

    “Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God…”

    September 26, 1642 – The rules and precepts that were to govern Harvard were set up.

    “Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternall life, John 17:3 and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him Prov. 2.3.”

    Harvard College was founded on Christi Gloriam and later dedicated Christo et Ecclesiae. The founders of Harvard believed that “all knowledge without Christ was vain.”

    The charter of Yale University clearly expressed the purpose for which the school was founded: “Whereas several well disposed and Publick spirited Persons of their sincere Regard to & zeal for upholding & propagating of the Christian Protestant Religion … youth may be instructed in the Arts & Sciences who through the blessing of Almighty God may be fitted for Publick employment both in Church & Civil State.”

    In addition to Harvard and Yale, 106 out of the first 108 schools in America were founded on the Christian faith.

    April 3, 1644 – The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

    “That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses … be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction …”

    1647 – Governor William Bradford publishes Of Plimouth Plantation.

    “Lastly, (and which was not least,) a great hope and inward zeall they (the Pilgrims) had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way thereunto, for ye propagation and advancing of ye gospell or ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world; yea, though they should be but stepping-stones unto others for ye performing of so great a work … their desires were set on ye ways of God, and to employ his ordinances; but they rested on his providence, and know whom they had beleeved.”

    April 21, 1649 – The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

    “Be it therefor … enacted … that no person or persons whatsoever within this province … professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall … henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) … in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof …”

    April 25, 1689 – The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

    “Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government … therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God …”

    May 20, 1775 – North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

    “We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress.”

    Summer 12, 1775 – Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

    “And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day.”

    Summer 2-4, 1776 – Declaration of Independence written and signed.

    “We hold these truths … that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world … And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence…”

    As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: “We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come.”

    On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”

    Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is “the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence.”

    September 17, 1787 – The Constitution of the United States is finished.

    At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

    Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

    The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

    1787 – James Madison, the “architect” of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

    “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

    April 30, 1789 – Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

    “My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes.”

    March 11, 1792 – President George Washington:

    “I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution.”

    December 20, 1820 – Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

    “Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate … and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary.”

    July 4, 1821 – John Quincy Adams:

    “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration … they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct.”

    1833 – Noah Webster:

    “The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles … This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government … the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”

    1841 – Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

    “In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious … there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America.”

    Summer 8, 1845 – President Andrew Jackson asserts:

    “The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests.”

    February 11, 1861 – Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

    “Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail … Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now.”

    Lincoln on the Bible:

    “In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.” (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

    1884 – U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration’s reference to our rights as being God-given.

    These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, “we hold these truths to be self-evident” that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement “that all men are endowed” – not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but “by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these” – not grant them but secure them “governments are instituted among men.”

    1891 – The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a “Christian Nation.”

    “Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian … this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth … this is a Christian nation.” (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

    1909 – President Theodore Roosevelt:

    “After a week on perplexing problems … it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, ‘Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty’ … (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world.” (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt – The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

    1913 – President Woodrow Wilson:

    “America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures.”

    1952 – US Supreme Court defines the “Separation of Church and State.”

    “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being … No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects … The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State.”

    January 20, 1977 – President Jimmy Carter:

    “Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: ‘He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God’” (Micah 6:2).

    1980 – President Ronald Reagan:

    “The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America … our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal.”

    May 3, 1990 – President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

    “The great faith that led our Nation’s Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our ‘firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,’ to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator.”

    And on this day, January 17, Year of Our Lord 2010 – I proclaim really biased bob to be an imbecile of the highest order who knows not of which he speaks.

  • sayanything-51

    Conservatives have proven time and time again they hate America, her Constitution and real Americans.

  • sayanything-7956

    I agree.
    Of course, the Old Testament – over 70% of the Bible – is exactly the same for both Jews and Christians, word for word.
    The New Testament is the point of divergence.
    The Koran contains a perverted summary of the Bible, and paranoically accuses both Jews and Christians of some kind of willful misinterpretation of the issue of G-d. It is certainly far removed from boith Judaism and Christianity.

  • sayanything-453

    Realy Now you now the true story:

    The Pilgrims, a religious group in Britain, wished to separate from the Church of England. When King James treated them harshly for their beliefs, they arranged with the Virginia Company to settle in America. In November 1620, their ship, the Mayflower, was off course and landed in a place the Pilgrims called Plymouth.

  • sayanything-453

    Note: Judaism uses the term Tanakh to refer to its canon of the Masoretic Text. In academic circles, the more neutral term Hebrew Bible is commonly used to refer to the Tanakh.

    Tanakh
    (Books common to all Christian and Judaic canons)
    Genesis · Exodus · Leviticus · Numbers · Deuteronomy · Joshua · Judges · Ruth · 1–2 Samuel · 1–2 Kings · 1–2 Chronicles · Ezra (Esdras) · Nehemiah · Esther · Job · Psalms · Proverbs · Ecclesiastes · Song of Songs · Isaiah · Jeremiah · Lamentations · Ezekiel · Daniel · Minor prophets
    Deuterocanon
    Tobit · Judith · 1 Maccabees · 2 Maccabees · Wisdom (of Solomon) · Sirach · Baruch · Letter of Jeremiah · Additions to Daniel · Additions to Esther
    Greek and Slavonic Orthodox canon
    1 Esdras · 3 Maccabees · Prayer of Manasseh · Psalm 151
    Georgian Orthodox canon
    4 Maccabees · 2 Esdras
    Ethiopian Orthodox “narrow” canon
    Apocalypse of Ezra · Jubilees · Enoch · 1–3 Meqabyan · 4 Baruch
    Syriac Peshitta
    Psalms 152–155 · 2 Baruch · Letter of Baruch

    The Old Testament is the collection of books that forms the first of the two-part Christian Biblical canon. The contents of the Old Testment canon vary from church to church, with the Orthodox communion having 51 books: the shared books are those of the shortest canon, that of the major Protestant communions, with 39 books.

    All Old Testament canons are related to the Jewish Bible Canon (Tanakh), but with variations. The most important of these variations is a change to the order of the books: the Hebrew Bible ends with the Book of Chronicles, which describes Israel restored to the Promised Land and the Temple restored in Jerusalem; in the Hebrew Bible God’s purpose is thus fulfilled and the divine history is at an end, according to Dispensationalism. In the Christian Old Testament the Book of Malachi is placed last, so that a prophesy of the coming of the Messiah leads into the birth of the Christ in the Gospel of Matthew.

    The Tanakh is written in Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic, and is therefore also known as the Hebrew Bible (the text of the Jewish Bible is called the Masoretic, after the medieval Jewish rabbis who compiled it). The Masoretic Text (i.e. the Hebrew text revered by medieval and modern Jews) is only one of several versions of the original scriptures of ancient Judaism, and no manuscripts of that hypothetical original text exist. In the last few centuries before Christ Jewish scholars produced a translation of their scriptures in Greek, the common language of the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire since the conquests of Alexander the Great. This translation, known as the Septuagint, forms the basis of the Orthodox and some other Eastern Old Testaments. The Old Testaments of the Western branches of Christianity were originally based on a Latin translation of the Septuagint known as the Vetus Latina, this was replaced by Jerome’s Vulgate, which continues to be highly respected in the Catholic Church, but Protestant churches generally follow translations of a scholarly reference known as the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. In 1943, Pope Pius XII issued the Divino Afflante Spiritu which allows Catholic translations from texts other than the Vulgate, notably in English the New American Bible.

    The Hebrew Bible divides its books into three categories, the Torah (“Instructions”), the Nevi’im (“Prophets”) (according to some Christians, essentially historical, despite the title), and the Ketuvim (“Writings},” which according to some Christians might better be described as “wisdom” books (the Song of Songs, Lamentations, Proverbs, etc). The Christian Old Testaments ignore this division and instead emphasise the historical and prophetic nature of the canon – this the Book of Ruth and the Book of Job, part of the Writings in the Hebrew Bible, are reclassified in the Christian canon as history books, and the overall division into Instructions, Prophets and Writings is lost. The reason for this is the over-arching Messianic intention of Christianity – the Old Testament is seen as preparation for the New Testament, and not as a revelation complete in its own right, see Supersessionism for details.

    Although it is not a history book in the modern sense, the Old Testament is the primary source for the History of ancient Israel and Judah. The Bible historians presented a picture of ancient Israel based on information that they viewed as historically true. Of particular interest in this regard are the books of Joshua through Second Chronicles.

    The oldest material in the Hebrew Bible – and therefore in the Christian Old Testament – may date from the 12th century BCE. This material is found embedded within the books of the current Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, which reached their current form at various points between the 5th century BC (the first five books, the Torah) and the 2nd century BC, see Development of the Jewish Bible canon for details.

  • sayanything-287

    Yeah, like they really care about the Law or our Constitution! I assure you they will delay Brown's being seated, all for good reasons of course, and they will allow Kirk to keep that seat and vote as long as possible.

  • http://Array sayanything-106

    Dems don't care about the constitution.

  • sayanything-15427

    They wont even try to pretend its anything but a power play. If Brown wins they will stand up and proudly state that the rules don't matter when the outcome doesn't favor them. Anything to win, ends always justify the means. Everything from wrong, to semi-evil, quasi-evil and out-and-out evil.

  • sayanything-51

    No one hates our constitution more than gop.

  • sayanything-4808

    Derangedbob, it's the other way around. The Dems cannot stand the US Constitution because they are arrogant self-declared geniuses who think they know everything better than all the unwashed masses and assume themselves deserving of rule in advance, the rules of the game be damned. They've demonstrated it constantly, not that you have a snowball's chance in Dino's butthole of of understanding it.

  • sayanything-51

    Over the years gop has demonstrated it's deep seated hated of everything our founder held dear.

  • spartacus

    Over the years gop has demonstrated it's deep seated hated of everything our founder held dear.

    Your founder, Goebbles?

  • sayanything-5371

    Over the years gop has demonstrated it's deep seated hated of everything our founder held dear.

    Of course we hate Marx, you imbecile. Why wouldn't we?

  • sayanything-287

    I measure how one treats the Bill of Rights as the best measure of how they feel about the Constitution. You must ask which party has passed those laws most clearly restricting free speech, ones that express official hostility to our freedom of religious worship. How they interpret the right of private citizens to keep and bear arms and etc., and that will tell you which party has the greatest disregard fro the Constitution. It amazes me how many people in the current administration, including Lord Obama feel the Constitution is faulty, not sufficiently progressive on things like income redistribution and economic justice and want to change its meaning outside the Amendment process by executive order.

    The Health Care Reform Act is a perfect example of their contempt for liberty when they feel is is Constitutional to demand everyone buy health insurance or suffers fines and prison for failing to buy such a service. Unfortunately, those on the Left will continue to live under the delusion that they represent what the Founding Father's believed and wanted, but let me end with one glaringly difference.

    The Founding Fathers, by their legislation, judicial decisions and public statements, virtually all of them virtually all the time, believed that the Bible was a vital part of our public educational system, even buying bibles for public schools and including such a strong support of the Christian faith in The Northwest Ordinance wherein they spoke of including study of the bible in all the public schools of all new territories applying for statehood. Now fast forward to today when teachers cannot even have a bible on their desks or pray during school or at any school related activities and their demands of a total, blind separation of Church and State in our schools.

  • sayanything-51

    America was not founded as a Christian nation.
    Although I do understand why fake Christians like my Old Pal continually push their bunk.

  • sayanything-5371

    This is a patent lie and standard lib talking point, really biased bob.

    America was not founded as a Christian nation.

    It was and still is a Christian Nation. We are aware however, that you would like to legally install your religion of marxism.

  • spartacus

    To your dismay, nor was it founded as an athiest nation. Bottom line is one of the founding principles was freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, please link us to any passage in any of our founding documents that prove your point.

  • sayanything-5371

    America was founded as a Christian Nation you godless heathen.

    Thank you for admitting you can't prove it wasn't founded as a Christian Nation, really biased imbobcile.

    Now run along back to your masters at the Center For American Progress for your next anti-America propaganda post.

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, if you can't provide a link to anywhere in any our founding documents that America was founded as a Christian nation, isn't it time you shut up?

  • sayanything-6955

    I think most of us would rather listen to "Mr. Food" than you slime ball. Your time has been up foe a while.

  • sayanything-51

    My Old Pal agrees with me on something.

    It's odd that something is that American was not founded as a Christian nation.

    I suspect my Old Pal will have more to say on this subject, but will completely ignore that our founders actually voted unanimously that America was not founded in any sense on the Christian religion.

    Good job, Old Pal.

  • sayanything-5371

    really biased imbobicle, since you can't provide a link proving that America wasn't founded as a Christian Nation you are essentially admitting that this is a Christian Nation, was always a Christian Nation and was founded as a Christian Nation.

    It was you who raised the subject, so thank you for admitting America was founded as a Christian Nation.

    Now, isn't it time for you to shut up and run along back to your masters at the Center for American Progress for your next libstain anti-America post?

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, do you really need a link to what most people of average intellegence already knows to be true?

    Well, perhaps Mr. Food, you are one of those…other…kind of people.

    Ok Mr. Food, here's your link.

    This is what was voted unanimously in the affirmative for:

    Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    If you have a link from a founding document…oh lets say…our Constitution…that proclaims America to be a Christian nation, please do post that as well.

    Maybe my Old Pal can help you. He's just full of stuff.

  • sayanything-5371

    really biased imbobicle, once again you have failed to provide any link to any founding document saying that America was not founded as a Christian Nation.

    You raised the subject so it is incumbent on you to prove that America was not founded as a Christian Nation, which you cannot do. So, you are admitting that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

    Thank you for admitting that America was founded as a Christian Nation, which it still is and always will be, you godless heathen.

    Run along back to your masters at the Center for American Progress for your next anti-America/anti-GOP/anti-Christianity post. BTW, imbecile, has anyone ever told you how pedestrian and boring your recurring themes and attacks are? Well, they are. You need some new material, imbecile.

  • sayanything-287

    WHFF: I could provide more evidence, but these three bullets below prove once again that rbb is a pathological liar, he is incapable of ever telling the truth!

    "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." John Jay the first Supreme Court Justice

    “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religious, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” Patrick Henry 1776

    “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams 6th US President and son of John Adams

  • sayanything-51

    Oh Mr. Food, our founders voted in 1796, just a few years into our great countries life, in what was to become know as The Treaty of Tripoli. Wherein Section 11 (see above) was voted for unanimously in the affirmative. And your point of it not being in what are commonly referred to as our founding document is well taken, but the fact remains, America was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

    If it were, I'm sure those smart men and women would have included it in said document.

    But go on Mr. Food, you were saying?

  • sayanything-51

    Did I tell you my Old Pal would have something to say?
    Now he is doubling back to reverse what he thinks he already claimed.

    But tell us Old Pal, what section of our Constitution are those phrases to be found?

    Take your time. I'm home for the evening.

  • spartacus

    Can Reality Based Bobbie Joe Goebbles provide a link from a founding document…oh lets say…our Constitution that clearly proclaims America not to be a Christian nation?

    If he can, he's a liar. They didn't have readily available electricity, much less computers and the internet to link shit with back in the late 18th century.

  • sayanything-6955

    He is an A$$ Neiman, the goalposts keep moving. He use to be entertaining, now, just wasting space for logical thinkers.

  • sayanything-5371

    Very, good Neiman. I know full well this Nation was established as a Christian Nation, by Christians. Our documents are filled with reverence for God. Our government buildings have many examples of Christian Symbolism. Imbecile bob cannot disprove any of this, so he tries to distract and see if we will play his game when he is the one who brought it up.

    He tries using some language from a treaty used to subdue muslims at Tripoli to prove his point. How pathetic. The imbecile is a godless heathen and should be pitied, but I'm tired of giving pity to imbeciles.

  • sayanything-51

    You'd think with a football helmet avatar, you'd know where the goalposts are.

    Go ahead Randy, link us to the goalpost.

  • sayanything-287

    The imbecile is a godless heathen and should be pitied

    There are two reasons he hates me:
    1. Like several others here do, I will always expose his lies and call him a liar!
    2. He is godless heathen and I expose his wickedness all the time.

    I do not hate him, I do not get angry at him, I just stand up to him and no cheap bully likes that and so they blubber and bluster and run away. I would love to see him get saved, I pray for it often.

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, if you can't find any link, any phrase, anything at all in our Constitution that proclaims America to be a Christian nation, aren't you just blowing smoke up your own cavity?

    Please, give us a link.

  • sayanything-51

    I love you Old Pal, do you love me?

  • spartacus

    Homo

  • sayanything-5371

    You are digging a hole for yourself, godless heathen. You really are an imbecile, really biased bob. You raised the subject and can't prove what you say.

    Thanks for admitting America was founded as a Christian Nation.

  • sayanything-15427

    Freedom of religion was meant to protect the church from government, not the other way around. And it is Freedom OF Religion not freedom FROM religion as atheists with too much money try to claim over and over in court.

  • sayanything-287

    You are wholly incapable of loving anyone! There is no love outside of Christ and you are by your own admission outside of Christ. So, that is another lie! I love your soul which is precious to God, but not the lying person you are on the outside, not the evil in you, just your everlasting soul and that not of myself, it is Christ in me that loves you.

    One more "pal," is one more lie from you! You just cannot stop lying!

    WHFF: See there is no use debating him, he lies and he knows that he is lying, he enjoys it. He knows that even the Supreme Court looks at the private letters of our Founding Father's, they look at previous SCOTUS decisions and public statements by former justices among other early documents to help them understand what the Constitution actually means. The Constitution is more than just the words used, but how the framers understood what those words meant.

    In the infamous Separation of Church and State decision by former KKK member Hugo Black, even that pig used a single line from a single letter outside the Constitution to create that lie out of whole cloth; but he did appeal to another document of a Founding Father, because he had no support at all in the Constitution or prior SCOTUS decisions, the point is, Justices do not just use the Constitution but supporting documents of that time.

    We do thank you rbb for agreeing that this is a Christian Nation!

  • sayanything-287

    Exactly right JR!

  • sayanything-287

    I am glad you caught that homoerotic wish of rbb too!

  • spartacus

    Yeah, it's kinda creepy. Sounds like he wants some dude to ice down his marbles. Where's Dino?

  • spartacus

    If he starts offering candy, call the police!

  • sayanything-287

    As my political guru Larry the Cable Guy would say, "Now that there is funny, I don't care what anyone says!"

  • sayanything-51

    To bad you non Christians don't know the second greatest commandment.

    Shame on you pagans.

    I'm not surprised my Old Pal is ignorant though. It's what he has built his house on.

  • sayanything-6955

    Bravo WHFF! Good work, damn good work.

  • Dell

    Uhhh….How about "In God We Trust"? Does that count?

  • sayanything-51

    So Mr. Food, nothing in a founding document to prove your foolish claim?

  • sayanything-98

    Correct. They are the democrats–the socialist democrats. FDR was the first obvious one.

  • sayanything-51

    Well Dell, since that wasn't introduced until the 1950's, I don't think that qualifies as a phrase from our Constitution.

    Nice try though.

    Keep up the good work.

  • sayanything-98

    He is incapable of fathoming logical discussions.

  • sayanything-98

    Correct, but certain people find one obscure letter to a friend and point to it as part of the US Constitution. They seem incapable of reading the original document. We did back when schools were just that, places of imparting knowledge.

  • sayanything-51

    Chief, is a treaty, once signed, part of our law?

  • sayanything-287

    You just keep calling me pal, I love it, you just keep showing everyone here that you are a pathological liar!

    As I've said, to understand what God says you have to be a Christian first and by your own admission you are not a Christian, so: (1) You know nothing about the Christian Faith, you are not capable of understanding a single word of the Bible. So, when you say such things you are talking out of spiritual ignorance. (2) Not being a Christian, unless you repent and ask Christ to be your Savior and Lord at some point in your life, the bible says you are an enemy of Christ, you are condemned for not being part of Him and you are of your father the devil. Christians are to love everyone, but not love their evil deeds, not love the evil within them, which is what I said!

    Next, no one in the flesh is capable of real love, which real love is wholly selfless and can only be found in and by God. Christians can only be instruments, vessels through whom the Love of God in Christ can flow to others and that love is for our brothers and sisters in Christ first; and as to those of the world (YOU) we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, which is what I have always said, I love your soul that is precious to God, while I must hate your sins, among which the greatest is your lying nature.

    Now I would ask you to stop lying, but I know you can't, it is your nature!

  • sayanything-2

    boob? Prove that "In God We Trust" was only intorduced in the 1950s. Do it now.

  • sayanything-287

    No Randy, WHFF is being a show-off now! He had to up my three examples by, goodness how many?

    Just kidding, great job!

  • sayanything-2

    Oh, and boob? The facts are that after Tuesday, no matter who wins, Kirk CAN NOT VOTE IN THE SENATE. That is the rule, in the Senate, stupid c*nt.

  • j.l.

    Again, that`s why his name is BasedBob; he has no concept of reality. As in, this post started out talking about the legality of Kirk casting the 60th vote if Brown wins, and BasedBob is debating whether we`re a Christian nation or not. Ok.

  • robert108

    Relax! rbb is just trying to draw attention to himself, as always. If he could politicize a disaster at the same time, he would be in hog heaven.

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, I'm not arguing that the unanimous agreed to treaty which was signed just 20 years after my country's founding is part of it's founding documents.

    I'm just stating fact.

    Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

  • sayanything-51

    OOOHHH wrong again, huh Big 180 McCain voter.
    Neiman brought it up.

    Nice try though.

    Do try to keep up with the class.

  • sayanything-5371

    Imbecile, Kirk can't vote after Tuesday, Brown is ahead in the polls, Obama is doing as good as a coat tail campaigner for Coakley as he did for Corzine and Deeds and America was founded as a Christian Nation.

    Your muslim president agrees with you though. I guess that's something.

  • sayanything-51

    And yet nothing at all to prove your point.
    Oh Mr. Food, have you nothing at all?

  • sayanything-287

    No 108, he is lying again, no scratch that, he is still lying as usual. I made mention that it was founded on Christian principles, I did not call it a Christian Nation – he did!

  • sayanything-51

    Thank you Old Pal, now tell Mr. Food that America was not founded as a Christian nation.

    Oh what I wouldn't do to see the look on his face!

  • sayanything-5371

    If you don't like living in a Christian Nation why don't you move to one of your workers paradises? Hugo Chavez would love to have you come down and kiss his butt. And Just think, you'd be kissing the same butt kissed by the likes of Sean Penn and Danny Glover and Harry Belafonte. You'd be almost famous.

    America was founded as a Christian Nation, imbecile. Get used to the idea that most people in the USA are Christians. You must hate that. You are a sick hater.

    I don't have to prove anything, imbecile. You do. You brought up the issue and can't prove anything you say.

    Thanks for admitting that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

  • sayanything-453

    Theocracy huh? Just like Iran. Ayatollah Pat Robertson, is he ready to rule?

  • sayanything-51

    Mr. Food, what?

    If you want to live in a Christian nation why don't you move to one?

    My Old Pal says my country was not founded as a Christian nation. Take it up with him.

  • sayanything-5371

    I already live in a Christian Nation, fool. Its always been a Christian Nation and that's why its a great country in many ways. If you weren't such a secular hater you'd know that.

    Thanks for admitting that America is a Christian Nation, even though you have no appreciation of how Christianity has benefited you.

  • sayanything-287

    You lied twice again! My goodness lies pour out as fast as you can take a breath!

    I am not your pal, you know we are not pals so you are LYING!

    I said we were not officially a Christian nation and then I pointed out why we are a Christian nation and so you LIED again!

    How do you spell his name? LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR

  • sayanything-287

    YOU ARE LYING!

  • sayanything-287

    No one said it was a theocracy, like your pal RBB you are LYING! America by virtue of our constant Christian majority, a very large majority in deed and many other things we discussed before you stuck your nose in without having all the facts, we are in spirit a Christian nation, always have been, not officially but in reality and not a THEOCRACY!

  • robert108

    With you in charge, ellinas, it would be an Idiocracy.

  • robert108

    rbb and his leftie buddies live in an idiocracy of their own imaginations.

  • sayanything-51

    Sorry Mr. Food your fighting with my Old Pal now.

    I said we were not officially a Christian nation and then I pointed out why we are a Christian nation and so you LIED again!

    Even if he has no idea what he is writing, of course.

  • sayanything-453

    I am not your pal,

    A real Christian would never say that. Your heart is filled with hatred.

    I had hoped that your Christianity was real. It is not.

    It is a tool you use to oppress and bash others. You always claim holier than thou, but you realy are a real hater. I cannot say it enough. A hater!

    What a disappointment! What a let down! My God!

    I will pray for your perverted soul. You remind me of all those fallen preachers.

    The louder they screamed and railed against homosexuals, the more gay they proved to be.

    Liars, cheats, thieves, oppressors all of them. Christian American Taliban. Christian American mullahs. All of them.

  • sayanything-51

    Our nutters seem a little more bitter, a little more angry that usual tonight heh, E?

  • sayanything-5371

    You have no old pal, so your strawman won't help you.

    Your desperation is showing here, bob. You party is losing it. So are you.

    Next time someone you or someone you love needs a surgery and a good doctor are you going to not go to Providence Hospital, or Emanuel Hospital or any of the good Christian hospitals where you live if that's where your general practitioner sends you to see the specialist who will save you? Are you going to say, no, I'll die first before I let a "Christionist" work on me?

    Look around you, fool. All of the great hospitals are Christian. All of the best charities are Christian. All of our laws are based on Christian principles.

    All the founders were Christians and based our founding documents on Christian principles.

    This is a Christian Nation no matter how much you live in denial. When your marxist utopia finally lets you down and your death panel sends you or your loved one to die God and Christianity will still be there for you even though you deny it now.

  • sayanything-453

    Angry is not the word. They are getting crazier by the minute.

  • sayanything-453

    OK. I'll play. All that you say is true.

    What difference does it make?

    We are Christian! Hurray! What is next. And who's Christianity are we to follow?

    Pat Robertson's? Ted Haggard's, The Pope's, The Orthodox church? The snake charmers?

    The holly rollers? Who's Christianity? Every corner a Christian church, selling their own brand of salvation. Christianity is a big business, not only in the USA, but everywhere.

    So are other religions.

    Which one is right? Are you going to ask your doctor if it's right for you?

  • sayanything-287

    My goodness I must have hit a nerve! Think about it Ellinas, why would I be "pal's" with someone of the world when the Lord said we are not to have fellowship with them? You do not understand all the conversations we've had, even under this thread, it seems sadly that you no nothing at all about Christianity either and your defense of homosexuality says an awful lot about how you tolerate and even encourage evil. While not intending to, wanting him to be your pal, you are unconsciously doing the work of the enemy and then you get out of your mind upset because I refuse to be a "pal" with a known pathological liar, a person that openly confesses they are no Christian and attacks people of faith here at SAB all the time? That is nuts!

    Do you realize how insane you appear? All this insane, out of control overreaction because I refuse to be identified as a "pal" of such a person? You have lost your freaking mind! A pal is a friend, a chum and what fellowship does light (a Christian) have to do with darkness (a person of the world)? How can I be a chum, a friend of anyone that hates Christ? You might say he doesn't hate Him perhaps? The Bible says that if you do not love Him and become one of His own, then you hate Him. If you are a Christian, you should really read your bible.

    I'll tell you what Ellinas, I sincerely care more for rbb's soul than you ever could. I love his soul and you hate him! You may disagree with my approach, but I want him saved, not encouraged as you do to keep lying and attacking Christians. You don't appear by your rabid defense of him to care about his soul at all, you just want to play nice with him and have him see you as his friend and be careful not to upset him; and if he then goes to hell because of your silence in not confronting his sins, you don't seem to care what happens to him. Well I do! I'll take his insults and yours and keep confronting his lies and attacks on the faith for the sake of his everlasting soul.

    "So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more." Ephesians 4:17-19

    "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. or it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret." Ehpesians 4:11-12

    First he must see the utter sinfulness, hopelessness of his deeds before he will ever confess those sins and seek Christ. As long as you tell him he is okay and tolerate his sins, he is encouraged to stay in them and not seek Christ at all and that to his destruction. I want him to face his sins and seek Christ and find salvation, apparently that does not concern you at all!

    Your tirade now tells him his fine, he should continue in his constant lies, in his attacking people of faith and as a person facing eternal punishing; because by this insane outburst of yours, you are telling him that he is okay just as he is and anyone not tolerating what he does is the one that is evil. That is an upside down, anti-Christian morality!

    I am sorry you feel the way you do and so offended for your friend who is of this world, but what can I do, stay silent, pretend we are friends and just allow him to think the way he is going is okay? I can't!

  • sayanything-287

    Did you see the attack I got just for reminding him for I don't know how many times that we are not pals? Do you see how these people cannot be reasoned with, they are delusional!

    Keep going, nothing you are saying is wrong! You dealt in facts, you overwhelmed him with facts and he answered in lies! Then all they have left is insults! Sorry you got caught up with these nut bags!

  • sayanything-5371

    You don't know anything about Christianity except media sensationalized crap ellinas. Neither does bob. You are both a complete waste of life.

  • sayanything-287

    You keep lying tonight! WHFF never called for a theocracy, he never spoke of any denomination in charge, only that in spirit we are and always have been a Christian nation. He never spoke of a national denomination, he only spoke to the nature of our Founding Fathers and the influence of their faith on bringing forth this nation and that mostly we are a Christian people today.

    Why are you so extreme tonight, something else, somewhere else has gotten you way off the deep end. Attack me okay, but by what he said WHFF doesn't deserve lies!

  • cathy

    The comment that our nation was not built on christianity is a very uneducated statement…Honey you need to read more history before you make a comment like that…

  • sayanything-2

    Where is all your proof that Christians are using terrorism to force people to convert to Christianity, whiny lying c%nt?

  • sayanything-2

    So, to sumarize, boob can not prove that "In God We Trust" was never used before 1950, or that America was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles.Just spewing lies and sh*t, as usual.

    Oh, and after Tuesday Kirk can not vote, on anything, in the US Senate. Suck on that, whiny lying c*nt.

  • sayanything-9974

    The legality of an issue doesn't present much of a concern or impediment to the Dem/Lib Neo-Coms. They are currently laughing while they wipe there a$$ with the US Constitution. We will see who has the last laugh very soon. The time is now – we are the ones we have been waiting for to take our country back from the red menace that threatens from within.

  • sayanything-5371

    You are not a Real American, imbecile. You are a liberal ideologue. Your loyalty is to marxist idiology. You are the idiots who hate the USA and our Constitution.

  • sayanything-4625

    Conservatives have proven time and time again they hate America, her Constitution and real Americans

    Bob, considering the selective outrage you display and your blatant hypocrisy I would suggest your "love" of the constitution is as shallow and hollow as your hatred of corruption. In other words, you could care less about the constitution unless you can use it to make a political point.

  • sayanything-453

    I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world.

    But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler– not even to eat with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:9-11)

    Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

    And if anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that man and do not associate with him, so that he may be put to shame. And yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thessalonians 3:14-15)

  • sayanything-453

    I have given them Thy word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. (John 17:14-18)

  • sayanything-453

    Are these the words of a Christian?

    "You don't know anything about Christianity except media sensationalized crap ellinas. Neither does bob. You are both a complete waste of life."

    WillHuntForFood in reply to ellinas

  • sayanything-453

    Neiman said:

    "Well I do! I'll take his insults and yours and keep confronting his lies and attacks on the faith for the sake of his everlasting soul".

    "I am sorry you feel the way you do and so offended for your friend who is of this world, but what can I do, stay silent, pretend we are friends and just allow him to think the way he is going is okay? I can't!"

    I wonder why you have not confronted this?

    Why have you remained silent?

    "Where is all your proof that Christians are using terrorism to force people to convert to Christianity, whiny lying c%nt?"

    2hotel9 in reply to ellinas

    You know it is not true. Yet you remain silent? Why? What are you afraid of?

    Why don't you apply your standards on him?

    You choose to attack only those that are politically different then you.

  • sayanything-453

    America was founded by Puritan Christians. Not Judeo-Christians.

  • sayanything-203

    America was founded by Puritan Christians. Not Judeo-Christians.

    Really???

    Philadelphia, founded by William Penn, was initially a largely Quaker colony. Baltimore was majority Catholic well past the American Revolution. The Carolinas were settled by Dutch, Germans, and several large groups of Scottish Presbyterians. New York, formerly New Amsterdam, was majority Dutch for several generations.

    Exactly where did you learn your American history, anyway?

  • sayanything-453

    The first to land and form a colony were puritans, not Judeo-Christians.

    The founders of the Commonwealth in Massachusets in 1630 were the Puritans.

    That there were other denominations is unquestionable, I was merely pointing that America was not founded by "Judeo-Christians." If you have any evidence to the contrary, please feel free to post it.

    The Mayflower, as I recall, was the ship that transported the English Separatists, better known as the Pilgrims, from Southampton, England, to Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States (which would become the capital of Plymouth Colony), in 1620. There were 102 passengers and a crew of 25–30.

    Exactly where did you learn your American history, anyway?

  • sayanything-7956

    The founding fathers were mainly Deists, which is an overarching view of a single G-d.

    "Judeo-Christians" is a valid definition of a group that would follow the central Monotheistic tenets of that belief. Catholic Maryland and the Quakers, Shakers, etc, were also representative of the religious variations in the colonies. Congregationalism and Unitarianism were the most common sects of the early founders.

    Baptists and Methodists only became important at the frontiers, because of their strong proselytizing. It was only in the early-mid 19th century that they became preeminent.

  • sayanything-287

    The reason Judeo-Christian has been used is that both Judaism and Christianity share the same God and moral/spiritual values. While America was first settled by Puritans, by the time of our founding as a nation, I believe we had left virtually all of that Puritanism behind and it could be more rightly said that most of our Founding Fathers that made us into a nation, were more traditional Christians and their values were mostly Judeo-Christian in nature.

  • sayanything-453

    All the above are nice and dandy, and fall in with your version of Christianity, which I find lacking and wanting.

    No matter though. I will not condemn you, nor reject you.

    The idea that this nation was founded by Christians, does not offend me. Why would you say this about me?

    I wonder why you have not confronted this?

    Why have you remained silent?

    "Where is all your proof that Christians are using terrorism to force people to convert to Christianity, whiny lying c%nt?"

    2hotel9 in reply to ellinas

    You know it is not true. Yet you remain silent? Why? What are you afraid of?

    Why don't you apply your standards on him?

    You choose to attack only those that are politically different then you.

  • sayanything-453

    Geoguy, the term "Judeo-Christians" is not a valid definition, as the founders considered themselves Christian and not "Judeo-Christian"

  • sayanything-453

    Jews and Christians do not share the same God.

    They are monotheistic religions, and share parts of the Old Testament. That's where the similarity ends.

    The Christians use the old Testament (among other things) to justify and verify the birth and death of Jesus. The Jews, not so much. Actually not at all.

  • robert108

    To the idiocrat: Since Jesus Christ was a Jew, all Christians are "Judeo-Christians". Sorry you don't know that. Christian principles include the Ten Commandments, which date from the time of Moses. Again, sorry you don't know that.

    As usual, you are dead wrong. "Judeo-Christian" is not a denomination. Sorry you don't know that.

  • robert108

    "Jews and Christians do not share the same God."

    A statement of pure ignorance from an idiocrat.

  • sayanything-287

    I swear you are worrying me, you know better that this! While Jesus, God the Son is not recognized yet as the Jewish Messiah, you cannot seriously say that the same Almighty God the Creator, the Father, is not the same Almighty God for both faiths? Next you'll be saying that Islam and Judaism DO share the same God?

  • sayanything-51

    So do Jews believe in Jesus or do Christians not believe in Jesus?

    And a follow up question to my Old Pal.
    If this is true, when did the Jews adopt the New Testament?

    This is all so exciting and new!

  • sayanything-287

    I said it offended you because below you have fought tooth and nail to deny our Christian heritage and that in all but name we have always been a Christian nation. How can you fight that suggestion so passionately and not expect the conclusion that the idea offends you?

    I understand you do not agree with my Christian faith, but I resent the idea that is is my version, as if I subjected the Bible to private interpretation. I have not! In my opinion, yours is a very liberal interpretation of Christianity as being a form of social justice, rather than one that while seeking to save the lost absolutely condemns this world and that it will soon suffer God's Wrath!

  • sayanything-7956

    What I'm saying is that many of the founders did not often believe in Jesus as being the Messiah ro the Son of G-d, but they believed in his message of peace and termed themselves as being Christian. This was a result of the philosophy of the times, where the Enlightenment made it declasse for educated people to be strict followers of the mainline Christian movement.

    They were as much a part of the wider education- and class-based culture as we are today. I'm not giving a value judgement here…

  • sayanything-453

    I said it offended you because below you have fought tooth and nail to deny our Christian heritage and that in all but name we have always been a Christian nation. How can you fight that suggestion so passionately and not expect the conclusion that the idea offends you?

    The idea that this nation was founded by Christians, does not offend me.

    Why would you say this about me?

  • sayanything-7956

    So (if I read your post correctly) are you saying that Christians do not believe in the Jewish G-d of the Old Testament?

    Or is there another Old Testament somewhere that we haven't seen yet? The original Old Testament texts were in Hebrew, translated into Aramaic, retranslated into Greek and then from Greek into the Latin from which the various other languages derived their translations, both good or bad (and in some cases, very bad).

    Jews do not beliieve that Jesus was the Messiah. Period. Therefore the adoption of the New Testament is out of the question.

  • sayanything-287

    I explained it in the quote you copied and pasted!

  • sayanything-453

    I still wonder why you have not confronted this?

    Why have you remained silent and are still silent?

    "2hotel9 in reply to ellinas

    Where is all your proof that Christians are using terrorism to force people to convert to Christianity, whiny lying c%nt?"

    You know it is not true. Yet you remain silent? Why? What are you afraid of?

    Why don't you apply your standards on him?

    You choose to attack only those that are politically different then you.

  • sayanything-203

    The first to land and form a colony were puritans, not Judeo-Christians.

    Really? I wasn't aware that the Jamestown (1585) colonists were Puritans. Nor were any of the other colonists I mentioned above.

    You stated that America "was founded by Puritan Christians." And you were wrong in that assertion.

  • sayanything-7956

    Actually, they were Vikings.

    So…. North Dakotans actually discovered America..

  • sayanything-453

    Neiman says:

    I explained it in the quote you copied and pasted!

    You wrote and explained what suited your needs. You ignored what I said, and ignore what I say.

  • sayanything-287

    The Pilgrims were the early settlers of the new land, but by the time of the Founding Father's of our nation the Pilgrims were no longer a factor at all, the peolpe mostly considered themselves Christians with Judeo-Christian common beliefs. Thus while not officially, we were and remained a Christian nation in all but name until very recently when liberals, secularists an some atheists started a war against that idea! Many quotes have been provided under this thread in support of that truth!

  • sayanything-287

    The idea that this nation was founded by Christians, does not offend me.
    Why would you say this about me?

    Because despite many arguments in favor of that notion, you have passionately fought against the idea of this being a Christian nation in spirit at all and even falsely accused those saying it was a Christian nation of wanting a theocracy.

  • sayanything-203

    This much, at least, is true, but those Puritans were not the firt to land here, nor the first to found a colony, nor did they found the United States.

  • sayanything-287

    If, as I have always believed you are a Christian, we should not talk like enemies or be separated in the desire to see rbb saved. You may not agree with me on his level of evil, but he admits he is not a Christian and therefore needs Salvation, don't you agree? We may disagree on some things and I know I cannot ever reconcile homosexuality or abortion with Holy Scripture, but we should stand together and not apart on these things.

    In the case of our Christian heritage and our being a mostly Christian people and nation, both of us should be proud of that fact and both saddened about this country becoming so hostile to Christ and the Church. If on Christian matters, notice I did not say religion because Christianity is not a religion; but on Christian matters, we should strive to find common ground and not allow others to sow seeds of strife.

    I pray you will realize all those here, as this thread got taken off track, were simply arguing for our Christian heritage and mostly Christian nation which faithfulness to Christ has, I believe, made it possible for us to be the most prosperous and powerful nation on earth. Many of us believe and feel sad that His blessing have been taken away when we kicked Him out of the Public Square in 1962 and I believe only a national repentance and restoration of those values will save us from falling into third world status in the coming years. No one here is arguing for a theocracy, but a return to the values that once made us so strong.

  • sayanything-2

    Nice dodge, boob, does not change the facts that after today Kirk can not vote in the Senate. Period.

Create a SAB Readerblog


Recent Comments

Powered by Disqus

Blog Advice and Support
Installs and Upgrades
Theme Modifications
Custom Plugins
Theme Design
Conversions and Relocations
Hacked Site Recovery
Mobile Apps Development