Say Anything Blog

And this is EXACTLY why pastors, preachers, mullahs, and rabbis lose credibility in the eyes of the world.

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Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

It’s idiots like him that give evangelicals a bad name.

Rob, Pilgrim and Bill,

I have had a problem as a pentecostal with some of Robertson’s views and methods. 

I didn’t want to say anything, it’s always dangerous, and it’s pretty much targeted towards those who look to me as a spiritual leader.  I publish a “word of the Lord”.  Every year. 

I would not mention it because it only means lots of people have a hard time with the whole idea that God tells some people what is going will happen.

But, I do operate in the Ministry gift of Prophet. That doesn’t make me special or exceptional any more than one who is a Pastor Teacher, Evangilist or Apostle.

SO, Here is my take on Robertson’s track record and where I disagree from him completley.

Here is the intro to the word of the Lord for 2008 from my blog.

And, here is the track record from last year’s “Prophecies” given to me for 2007. 
And, you can look back in the last several years of how I did.

Please, I’m not interested in getting into any theological discussions.  I am interested in encouraging people with the prophetic.

I also want you to know that just because i flow in the prophetic doesn’t mean I have universal insight.  Like my appreciation for Huck isn’t prophetic. It’s just me.

Prophetic and my opinion are very different and I would tell you if it were of the Gift or of myself.

So, read what you want, I am much more accurate in the Prophetic gift than Robertson ever was.  I might post on it on my blog, comparing what he says God told him, to what God told me.  One of us is wrong.

I don’t think it’s me.

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the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Give me 5 good lottery numbers and the powerball

Mickey,

If there was a Godly purpose in it He would give those numbers to me, Or YOU.

There isn’t so he doesn’t.

It wouldn’t be very encouraging to just get some numbers for some big money.  It could be destructive.

Believe me, I have often thought the same thing.

But, He knows full well what all the winning numbers are or will be from now until the very last time the last number is drawn on the last day man is on the earth.

What in the world makes anyone think that the creator of the universe who created time itself doesn’t know everything that happened has ever and ever will happen as long as time exists. 

So, knowing all Lotto numbers is a layup.

He just isn’t telling.  I guess he knows ME too well.  I’d just squander it.  I’m trying to convince him I wouldn’t.

I kinda wish I hadn’t tipped my hand on this, it always brings the a-religious out of the woodwork.

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the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Well Gene, after years of witnessing big wigs like Robertson and no name small fries at the corner church thoroughly abusing the title of prophet and the phrase “thus says the Lord,” you have got your work cut out for you.

From a Christian standpoint regardless of what anyone might prophesy a Christian’s responsibilities are pretty well laid out in the Bible wouldn’t you say?

So why doesn’t God talk to me… or my neighbor...or anyone else that I know of, including the pastor at my church?  Why would he choose you, Pat and the Pope?  Just curious?

Jay,

So why doesn’t God talk to me… or my neighbor...or anyone else that I know of, including the pastor at my church?  Why would he choose you, Pat and the Pope?  Just curious?

God is Constantly talking to you.....and your neighbor. 

Jesus kept saying, Let he who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit says.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 says, “I wish every one of you would prophesy”.

So it’s not about if God wants to or is trying to talk to you, HE IS.

You can hear.  You just need to listen.  Aye, there’s the rub.  I have honed whatever ear I have over 30 years.  I suspect the Pope and Pat have done the same.  Sometimes I still misunderstand, just like I do when people talk to me in the natural.  I misinterpret.

They are accurate, I’m not perfect in reporting.

If, and I mean this, you or ANYONE wanted to know how to hear from God for yourself, there are lots of resources available to develop the Gift.  Then there is the anointing that comes only from God to do this.  We don’t choose it, it chooses us.

HOWEVER, everyone is supposed to be able to hear, everyone is supposed to be able to prophesy.

Few do. 

That is sad.  For that reason, most of evangelicalism takes the easy way out of the conundrum and says, “everything God has to say is in the Bible and if you want to know what he says look it up”.  That’s true, kinda.  I would say that if Me or Pat or the Pope or any other Prophet ever says anything that does not have a witness in the Bible it’s wrong.  The Bible is a screen thru which all prophecy must be strained.  That’s th issue of Judgment.

So, Jay, if you really want to hear from God, he’s talking.  Do what I did.  Go somewhere alone for several days, just a bible and a few gallons of water.  Sit all alone with a notebook.  Ask God to speak.  The first couple days you will hear nothing.  On the 3rd day or so you will get whispers.  The fasting and quiet will open the heavens.

Then the download will come and you will hear what God’s voice sounds like.  Then when he speaks you will be better able to discern. 

I did this and do this.  Last time it was on the open prairie of North Dakota in a July summer.  I pitched a tent on some friends land a mile any direction from anyone.  Sleeping bag, ground pad, tent and Bag Chair.  I sat and prayed, listened, prayed and after a few days began to hear.

I have never been the same.

Anything is possible for those who decide to pay the price.  I wonder if Pat does or did?  I won’t judge.

This is probably more information than YOU requested, but I’m always prepared to give an answer.

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the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

As a fundamentalist who is not altogether “closed” to pentacostalism, my take on Robertson is that he shows himself to be a false prophet by, well, his false prophecies.

Biblically, that’s blasphemy; it is to insert false words into the mouth of the Lord, effectively calling the Creator a liar.  It was not for no reason that the Mosaic/Old Testament punishment for false prophecy was death.

Methinks Robertson needs to realize that, as do his listeners. 

Out of curiousity, I also tried to look up how many people watch CBN and the “700 Club.” Interestingly, I went through a few Google screens, and I’d have to guess that most of their million daily viewers are liberals who want to make fun of it.  :^)

Pat Robertson is not Christian or Christian.
He is a shrewd buisinessman, and snake oil hustler.
Like many other televangelists he is fleecing his flock. Notice how the family buisiness was handed down to his son.
The real tragedy in all this, are the guilible people who are willingly fleeced, hoping this charlatan will lead them to salvation.

Pat Robertson’s Christian image may be bad at times and possibly his business practices may be suspected of not being in line with God’s Word. His prophecies may be false, he may have many problems and not being doing any good for the image of Christ and the Church; and thus his fruits, that is, his words and actions may not seem to reflect the image of Christ, which should cause people to question his ministry and their support; but, please tell me who knows the heart of another man that, we can judge whether or not he is a genuine Christian and a beneficiary of God’s Grace unto Salvation?

Every Christian I know, at various times in their lives, do not always seem to be reflecting the best image of the Lord, we get into things of the flesh and can even engage in acts of sin, even habitually. But, I know I would hate to be judged at such times in my life, for my thoughts and actions.

The people supporting Pat must decide whether or not they should continue that support and I know that in the right season, God will deal with Pat according to His Perfect Knowledge and Will. Until then, such harsh judgments about him say more about the lack of charity of the people criticising him that they do about Pat.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman it is easy to lok at this mans heart.
It says somewhere in the bible a man cannot serve two gods:"Ye Cannot Serve God and Mammon.”
How or why Pat Robertson is exempt from this?
Jesus said: “Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal”? [Matthew 6:19]

Neiman it is easy to lok at this mans heart.
The above should read: Neiman it is easy to look at this mans heart.

Until then, such harsh judgments about him say more about the lack of charity of the people criticising him that they do about Pat.

Assumptions are made about people’s faith based on their political affiliation on this board CONSTANTLY.  That is OK?  But now it’s somehow unfair or a “lack of charity” when the arrows are directed at this carnival weight guesser?

I stamp bulls**t.

People like Pat use religion to gain personally.  The Bible isn’t anything more than another “get rich quick” book...only this one is blatantly placed in the living room and upon the lap instead of hidden in the wet bar cabinet.  He does nothing for Christianity except dillute it’s message and the people who subscribe to his madness are either blind fearmongers themselves or are pitifully unaware of his true intentions. 

Pat hasn’t heard God.  Pat’s heard register chimes.

I wonder if any of the theologians here about have ever read where Jesus said that with the same manner we measure (judge) other people, He will use that same standard of measure (justice) against them. So, since you all are so sure about your judgment that Pat is not a Christian for the things he might say and do, I guess you think its okay if God judges your words and actions in the same way and He deals with you as you want Him to deal with Robertson?

I said I know Pat has much to answer for concerning his false prophecies, his business dealings and many other things, but I simply posed my feelings about the lack of wisdom in saying something like this: “Pat Robertson is not [a] Christian.”

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman I disagree with you.
A man using Christianity to enrich himself is not a Christian or Christian.

I wonder if any of the theologians here about have ever read where Jesus said that with the same manner we measure (judge) other people, He will use that same standard of measure (justice) against them.

Obama being the 21stCentury version of Jack Kennedy and the Black Messiah it will be President Obama and then God help us all, because he is an extremist of the first order.

Neiman on January 4, 2008 at 09:03 am

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“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

God has spoken… spoken to us all in the bible, not in Pat or Gene’s head.  The insignificance of the prophetic claims of this kind of stuff is profoundly telling and even humorous if it wasn’t misleading and deceiving so many. 

Let’s say the market is going to crash, what are we to do?  Sell all stock?  Oh, wait that would crash the market sooner than prophesied.  Hold on then sell right before the year 2009, or 2010?  Oh, that would be self-fulfilling.  You’d think if God wanted his people to hear such important news through Pat he’d at least get the date right.  I cannot express how absolutely stupid and pathetic this is.  What’s worse? Some actually believe it.

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We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality — we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation,” 1/14/07)

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” (MSNBC’s “Response To The President’s Speech On Iraq,” 1/10/07)

“[E]ven those who are supporting — but here’s the thing, Larry — even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 3/19/07)

“My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.” (NBC’s “The Today Show,” 7/18/07)

Senator Barack Obama

"Place no man between you and God.” That, from the Qur’an, should be the guide post. I can not remember clearly, but I am rather sure there is a similar bit of advice in the Bible.

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Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

”God has spoken… spoken to us all in the bible, not in Pat or Gene’s head. ”

Exactly.

And to this:

“Jesus said that with the same manner we measure (judge) other people, He will use that same standard of measure (justice) against them.”

Fine with me.  Assuming the “get into heaven free” card is given based on one’s actions, I think I’m better off than Pat will be on this one.

That is, of course, unless the criteria for being a “christian” and thusly one’s admission into heaven is simply to believe in Jesus, and has nothing to do with one’s deeds, then I guess we’re on par.

unless the criteria for being a “christian” and thusly one’s admission into heaven is simply to believe in Jesus

Believing in Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean that one has invested one’s entire eternity in the truth that Jesus’ sacrifice met the requirements of divine justice in the place of and on behalf of every person. 

If forgiveness and entrance into heaven were about deeds alone, then God would not have had to become a perfect man in order to make both possible.

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We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality — we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation,” 1/14/07)

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” (MSNBC’s “Response To The President’s Speech On Iraq,” 1/10/07)

“[E]ven those who are supporting — but here’s the thing, Larry — even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 3/19/07)

“My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.” (NBC’s “The Today Show,” 7/18/07)

Senator Barack Obama

RBB: Have you ever been right about anything? You are so consistently wrong that it defies the imagination. Making a personal judgment about how bad I think Obama will be as President based on his own words, is not the same as judging whether or not someone is a Christian. I have hopes that sooner or later, if nothing but by accident and the law of averages you may once be right about something.

Jay: Salvation has to do with a free Gift of God’s Grace in Christ Jesus. If we genuinely believe in our hearts that He is the Son of God and paid the full penalty for all our sins, then we are saved. Faith in Him and His finished work on our behalf is the only requirement. Now if we say we accept Jesus and go on sinning without knowing in our hearts we are in sin, then one should be concerned that their own acceptance of Christ was not sincere. But, we cannot judge whether or not someone like Pat at one time genuinely accepted Christ, despite the many things they say or do that seem inconsistent with that confession. Only God knows the heart of a man or woman and only He knows the Truth! So, in charity we should refrain from such rash and eternal judgments about the soul of any man, while we are certainly to judge their fruits (words and deeds) and have nothing to do with their unspiritual works.

You and Ellinas and others are concerned about what appears to be Pat’s misdeeds and I share those concerns, but I am not willing to judge that he is not a Christian as I don’t want to be measured as to my own salvation based on my failures to live the Christian life always as I should. The difference between us is that I am a really bad sinner, I don’t deserve God’s Salvation; so I accept that undeserved gift knowing that I am no better than any other man and I know that other men can truly love Him and yet fail in many, many ways through lack of faith in Him.

I did not disagree with your assessments about the appearances of serious problems in Pat’s ministry, I just suggested a little charity in your judgment of his soul, which you are obviously chosing to ignore and that is your right.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

“I also believe the Lord was saying by 2009, maybe 2010, there’s going to be a major stock market crash,” said Robertson, who is a millionaire businessman as well as an evangelical leader.

Compare this weak rhetorical speculation with the “Thus saith the Lord” recorded in scripture.  Then compare the always fulfilled prophecy recorded in Scripture with Pat’s 0-5 record last January 2007.  Then compare the “prophetic” ambiguity of Pat to the precise phophecy in scripture. 

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how phony this stuff is.

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We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality — we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation,” 1/14/07)

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” (MSNBC’s “Response To The President’s Speech On Iraq,” 1/10/07)

“[E]ven those who are supporting — but here’s the thing, Larry — even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 3/19/07)

“My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.” (NBC’s “The Today Show,” 7/18/07)

Senator Barack Obama

Gene - So, Jay, if you really want to hear from God, he’s talking.  Do what I did.  Go somewhere alone for several days, just a bible and a few gallons of water.  Sit all alone with a notebook.  Ask God to speak.  The first couple days you will hear nothing.  On the 3rd day or so you will get whispers.  The fasting and quiet will open the heavens.

Uh, yeah. A bible will do that to you.

The same parts of the brain light up. The same booming voice from the heavens. The whole shabam.

It’s probably something in our brains. Fasting, depriving yourself of nutrients, and then hearing voices isn’t exactly all that surprising.

HG: I know that Pat does not have a sterling Christian character nor are his many public pronouncements and prophesies and perhaps even his business dealings in harmony with God’s Word. I have other information that would cause me to highly suspect the spirit within him. But, I also think God knows all about it! I pray for his soul and for those that contribute to his ministry, that God might deal with each of them according to His perfect Wisdom in Love, as that is how I would like Him to deal with me.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman - ...but I am not willing to judge that he is not a Christian as I don’t want to be measured as to my own salvation based on my failures to live the Christian life always as I should.

And yet you always make judgments of those who are not Christian. No disagreement is too small before you claim that one or another of us “hates” Christianity.

What does the good book say about making false claims on peoples’ characters? How do these false claims fit into your goal of living “the Christian life”?

Go somewhere alone for several days, just a bible and a few gallons of water. Sit all alone with a notebook.  Ask God to speak. 

But, don’t read it?  Ironically, one must take the written word of God, then ask God to speak?  I can hear what he would say to you without being there.  “Open it up and read what I have already spoken”.

The first couple days you will hear nothing.

Especially if your bible is closed. 

On the 3rd day or so you will get whispers.

That is madness setting in. 

The fasting and quiet will open the heavens.

Can someone please tell me where this instruction on how to hear from God came from, ‘cause it sure isn’t in the bible.  Just the opposite is said in Scripture, and that is that God has spoken and everyone with access to a bible can read it for themselves.

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We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality — we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation,” 1/14/07)

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” (MSNBC’s “Response To The President’s Speech On Iraq,” 1/10/07)

“[E]ven those who are supporting — but here’s the thing, Larry — even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 3/19/07)

“My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.” (NBC’s “The Today Show,” 7/18/07)

Senator Barack Obama

Neiman,

This stuff ain’t all that funny, it is used to dupe the simple into financial disaster as well as other self-destructive behaviors. 

I will not entertain this nonsense.  It ruins good Christians by getting them to believe (put thier faith in) people and events that are absolutely false.  It destroys true faith (absolute confidence in what God has said) and subsequently their behavior.  It makes a mockery of Christianity and provides an excuse for unbelief.  No good has come of it.

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We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality — we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation,” 1/14/07)

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” (MSNBC’s “Response To The President’s Speech On Iraq,” 1/10/07)

“[E]ven those who are supporting — but here’s the thing, Larry — even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 3/19/07)

“My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.” (NBC’s “The Today Show,” 7/18/07)

Senator Barack Obama

Likwidshoe: (a) I am not perfect and often in the emotions of the moment I have been guilty of behaving less like a Christian than I would prefer, with less charity than I know I should, I am saved but I am very far from perfect. (b) You have never been able to grasp the difference between evaluating a person’s words and actions and having strong opinions about the import of those words and actions; and, judging one’s eternal soul and reacting without charity. Maybe some day yu will, but so far you simply cannot discern the difference.

HG: Who said these things were funny? Not I! Who said or implied people cannot be hurt by Pat’s words and actions? Not I! But, then I must ask if I have been anointed with the gift of discernment, being able to judge who is and who is not of the Spirit of Christ. For me the answer is no! I must ask myself, have I first followed the Divine order by in private going to the man causing offense, if rejected going back privately with 2 or more other Christians (witnesses) having the same views on the matter, if rejected then going directly to his governing board, all before publicly criticizing one who may have been, at least at one time, called and anointed for ministry; who as far as I know is still one of God’s servants, albeit now being in grievous error. Am I doing it all in a Spirit of Love and Charity? If I have failed at one point, then I believe I am in the wrong!

Yes, such behavior does bring the Body of Christ into a general impression of disrepute and can hurt His children; but I cannot defend God, He has not called me to defend His Name or His children; for me, I think He is perfectly capable of dealing with every matter under the sun in His own Perfect timing and His own perfect way; and if He chooses, finding the right vessel (person) to be His instrument.

That is how I would prefer to deal with the matter, on the other hand you should deal with it as you determine is best.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

You have never been able to grasp the difference between evaluating a person’s words and actions and having strong opinions about the import of those words and actions; and, judging one’s eternal soul and reacting without charity. Maybe some day yu will, but so far you simply cannot discern the difference.

Egh. Whatever.

I just don’t like the false claims on our characters. It’s rude beyond belief. That’s all I was speaking of. You spend a good amount of comment space telling the world that I, Rob, and just about every other atheist and agnostic “hates” you, Christianity in general, and Christians. You do this, ironically, after telling us of the things that you hate. It’s not cool Neiman.

Nobody is asking for perfection. Such a thing does not exist in man. I’m just asking for a little respect for the non-believers around here. Far be it for a sarcastic bastard such as myself to ask for such a thing, but there you go. Take it for what you will. But please consider it. You’re a welcome additional voice around these parts. You filled in a viewpoint that we didn’t previously have. I’m sure we can all be somewhat civil to each other. We do, after all, talk with each other every day.

Likwidshoe: Many points you made are well taken!

I will only add that right or wrong, I feel that sometimes examining what someone says about a subject over and over and then by painting what views those words seem to indicate in more extreme language than they employed, is often useful in flushing out the depth of those feelings and/or revealing where weaknesses in my impressions may lie by examining their defense of their own views, can both be useful in improving communications and establishing common understandings.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

If one is religious then one makes prophecies, but if one is a-religious then one makes predictions based upon reasoned thought.
Which is more reliable? Neither, in my opinion, because both are arrived at the same way. I wish I had the faith to believe that such things as prophecies were actually inspiration from God. Alas, I don’t.
Prophecies or predictions are only ever proven to true after the event, when enough similarities can be drawn between them and what actually happened.

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Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Neiman exposing Pat for what he is (a shrewd buisinessman),Is not against Gods word. Not telling the world that the man is a charlatan (where religion is concerned) is a diservice to all involved. Gods command is simple::"Ye Cannot Serve God and Mammon.”

Who is P. Robertson serving? God or Mammon?
I think in P. Robertsons case the answer is easy.
I pray for his soul to be saved. I do not want him condemned. Maybe Pat does not realize how far he has strayed from being a good sheppard. Someone has to rise to the occassion and point to Pat that his view of Gods ministry is contrary to biblical teachings. Jesus and the Apostles never shied away from pointing out sin or sinfull people.

Ellinas: I have no perticular problem with most of what you said, this statement is revealing, “I pray for his soul to be saved. I do not want him condemned. Maybe Pat does not realize how far he has strayed from being a good sheppard. Someone has to rise to the occassion and point to Pat that his view of Gods ministry is contrary to biblical teachings.”

I have spoken to the biblical way to handle such cases and while Jesus and the Apostles, under direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit did rebuke and reprove sin, I would not encourage any Christian to take on that calling unless they were sure they were being directed and empowered by the Spirit. I know many here do not like my caution, but in my many decades as a Christian, I can tell you that God has His perfect time and way and we better not rush in where even angels would fear to tread.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Protestantism would not exist today if people shied away and did not speak against what the pope was teaching and his (the pope’s) enrichment scams.
Set yourself free and rise above what is not right. The protestant leaders, theologians,and everyday peons risked life and limb. And you are afraid of what? Speaking against a fellow evangelical?

e: Don’t forget Martin Luther!

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If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

Robert108 I did not forget Martin Luther. I just did not want to mention names.