Say Anything Blog

Wow, that was quick, Rob.

Please explain to me how giving rapists parental rights is anything but a travesty. 

What if I am not religious, but oppose abortion?  Am I some kind of secular taliban?  Is that possible?  Can someone be pro-life without being a "Jesus Freak"?

It is impossible for any educated and enlightened person to believe anything but that abortion should be allowed in all cases including to 12 year olds without parental consent during all three trimesters up to and including when the baby is crowning and the mom is 10 cm dialated.  If you don’t believe this, you are part of the Taliban.  Regardless of how you arrive at the different conclusion.

Where did Rob say that, ryan?

Explain to me, Ryan, how denying a father the right to Due Process of the Law and Spousal notification if his wife wants to abort THEIR CHILD is anything but a travesty.  Rob never said Rapists should have parental rights, however NARAL and PP and the Democratic Party fought in Casey to block spousal notification.

Does that make the Pro-Life folks that Taliban because they want Parental and Spousal notification?

Ryan,

Even rapists who conceive children are entitled to petition for their parental rights and should not be deprived of Due Process under the Law.  That does not mean that they will win, simply that they are entitled to Due Process.

You ever read the Constitution?  This is the 14th Amendment:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Are rapists not entitled to Due Process?  I can’t imagine a Rapist winning custody, but he still should be entitled to Due Process before being deprived of his parental rights.

We are not talking about giving rapists custody, but rather granting them due process.  Do you support Rapists getting Due Process before being deprived of their parental rights?

Please explain to me how giving rapists parental rights is anything but a travesty.

Can you give me a situation where this has ever happened?  And even if it has, it is something that can be corrected through law.  We have agencies and a court system charged with acting in the best interest of children.  Abusive or unfit parents routinely have their parental rights taken from them.

Are you saying that the better way is to kill the child? 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

He is not only so not getting elected ‘m guessing that all three people who donated to his campaign will be asking for refunds. That’s gonna sting when his mom asks for her money back…

Ryan will need to beg mom for some more money so he can buy a few books to learn about the constitution while he’s at it. A judge cannot give someone rights they were born with and already has, the rapist has the right as an American citizen, a judge can only take them away after due process. He’s one very confused little boy trying to make his way in an adult world.

And Justin, for an example of a non-Christian, agnostic Jew who is pro-life, check out Nat Hentoff. Just google Hentoff and pro-life and you’ll come up with half a dozen essays on the matter.

ryan, we are still waiting for you to tell us where and when Rob said this. Well?

Jeremy,

Is Nat Hentoff part of Ryan’s Taliban?  I am having a tough time with Ryan’s little Taliban theocracy rant here and notice how suddenly he stops participating in the discussion when we mention the Constitution, Due Process, and the fact that not all pro-lifers are Pat Robertson Bible thumpin’ folks, but some of us are educated and enlightened, yet still believe in the rule of law and the 10th and 14th Amendments.

Ryan,

You hear that.  Come on back here and explain whether the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment specifically is being violated by Roe v. Wade and the Supreme Court acted like unelected dictators in overriding the BOR, or whether some of the pro-State’s Rights folks who support the BOR and the 10th Amendment and also support Due Process for Rapists are the Taliban.  Where you at smart guy.  You want unelected folks to tell us what the law should be.  Which sounds more like the Taliban:

SD Voters passing a law through Democracy to ban abortion<BR>-or-<BR>9 unelected officials forming a tribal counsel and deciding for all Americans whether Abortion is legal or moral and overriding the will of the majority?

Answer me that question there Taliban boy.  You started this conversation and notice how quickly you left this thread.

It would be nearly 4,000 miles of travel for me each way but it’d almost be worth it to see him chewed up and spit out so I’m going to keep watching his blog to see if he announces any debates he might be in. I know 9th graders in Texas that could rip him to shreds.

Bullwinkle, I’m tempted to drive down to Bismarck and video tape one of his debates or speeches just so we can post it here and get a kick out of it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Please do, it’ll save me a lot of time and money.

Rob, I do have to give Ryan credit for one valid point: "Second, the legislators killed a bill in committee to take away parental rights from rapists if the rape ended in pregnancy. This means the rapist will be able to sue for parental rights - including visitation. Same goes for cases of incest."

Now you said: "And even if it has, it is something that can be corrected through law." It can be, if the legislature hadn’t killed that bill.

Rob, while I do agree that Ryan has gone overboard with the Taliban comparison, I also think South Dakota has left a nasty loophole in their rush to get abortion banned.

Just for clarity, in the abortion debate, I am pro-state. In other words, the states should determine the legality of abortion, not the Supreme Court.

How many rapists that aren’t in prison for the crime are going to ask for visitation rights? Wouldn’t a judge that actually granted the rights fall under the category of ACTIVIST JUDGE? Isn’t that what Ryan and every other liberal wants, more activist judges?

And even if a rapist is convicted of Rape, that in itself is not sufficient to take away parental rights without due process.  The first is a criminal proceeding against the person for the crime of rape and by all means, if convicted, that person will spend time in prison.  The second is a hearing determining custody of a child.  I do not like the idea of custody hearings and criminal court being handled by the same judge at the same time.  There are different burdens of proof and different standards of evidence.

How about this--a person is accused of rape but acquited, but since the custody hearing was handled during the criminal trial, a later hearing by the judge has increased difficulty taking away the rights of the parent in this situation.  The fact is that the burdens of proof in family court and the criteria used for the decisions are different.  That is not to say that I support parental rights for rapists, simply that I support due process for all people.  Anyone that does not support appropriate hearings to deal with these situations has a real issue.  To take away someone’s parental rights, we definately need to error on the side of caution and due process, not jump to some conclusion and start calling people the Taliban over it.

And I don’t believe that the legislation regarding how Rapist’s parental rights are handled necessarily needs addressing in an Abortion bill.  How are Rapist’s parental rights handled now for women that choose not to get abortions?  And why does the change in the abortion statute necessarily mean that the laws regarding child custody hearings for rapists need to be changed?  Do these two really have anything to do with each other?  And if not, why are people like Ryan calling SD the Taliban for granting rapists custody regardless of how the abortion laws are structure.  I’ll tell you why--BECAUSE RAPISTS DO NOT GET CUSTODY OF CHILDREN.  Fear of custody hearings is a red herring thrown out there to yell about how evil the Pro-life movement is.  If it is a problem, change the law, but do it in a bill to address this one situation, don’t tack it onto the abortion bill.