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Sunday, September 30, 2007


Our Soldiers As Victims

When does the left/media care about the treatment of our soldiers and vets?  When they can turn our soldiers/vets into victims to be used as so much political propaganda against their political opponents.

Of course, I know that we all want to see our troops cared for in an appropriate manner both during and after their service, but there comes a point at which our vets need to be responsible for their actions the same as anyone else.  Case in point, one Mr. Gamal Awad who is the “case in point” used in an AP article of the “look at the terrible cost Bush’s war has placed on us” variet.

TEMECULA, Calif. - He was one of America’s first defenders on Sept. 11, 2001, a Marine who pulled burned bodies from the ruins of the Pentagon. He saw more horrors in Kuwait and Iraq.

Today, he can’t keep a job, pay his bills, or chase thoughts of suicide from his tortured brain. In a few weeks, he may lose his house, too.

Gamal Awad, the American son of a Sudanese immigrant, exemplifies an emerging group of war veterans: the economic casualties.

More than in past wars, many wounded troops are coming home alive from the Middle East. That’s a triumph for military medicine. But they often return hobbled by prolonged physical and mental injuries from homemade bombs and the unremitting anxiety of fighting a hidden enemy along blurred battle lines. Treatment, recovery and retraining often can’t be assured quickly or cheaply.

“Economic casualties.”  Sounds like something right out of the John Edwards play book.  This reporter has a future in left-wing agitprop.

Anyway, the problem highlighted is one we should take seriously.  We must do everything we can to make sure our veterans, particularly our disabled veterans, get everything they need once they return home from the battlefield.  The problem is that like any citizen, we can’t protect these vets from making bad decisions.  Mr. Awad is held up in this article as an example of how our troops aren’t getting what they need, but the reality is his current situation is the result of his own poor decisions.

From the article:

Every morning, Awad needs to think of a reason not to kill himself. . . .

He stews alternately over suicide and finances, his $43,000 in credit card debt, his $4,330 in federal checks each month — the government’s compensation for his total disability from post-traumatic stress disorder. His flashbacks, thoughts of suicide, and anxiety over imagined threats — all documented for six years in his military record — keep him from working.

The disability payments don’t cover the $5,700-a-month cost of his adjustable home mortgage and equity loans. He owes more on his house than its market value, so he can’t sell it — but he may soon lose it to the bank.

$43,000 in credit card debt?  And a $5,700-a-month mortgage on top?  And equity loans?  That’s horrible, but nobody is responsible for that irresponsible spending but Mr. Awad himself.  The article tries to claim that this house is something he could once afford…

“I love this house. It makes me feel safe,” he says.

Awad could once afford it. He used to earn $100,000 a year as a 16-year veteran major with a master’s degree in management who excelled at logistics. Now, at age 38, he can’t even manage his own life.

...but $5,700 a month is $68,400 a year.  Or about 69% of his before-tax income.  Anyone who thinks that’s a economically sound decision to make is a fool.  I mean, perhaps Mr. Awad could make his payments prior to his injury, but he was sure stretching himself thin.  Which is probably why he’s got $43,000 in credit card debate and a bevy of equity loans to pay off on top of that mortgage.

My question is, why can’t Awad just sell his home?  Maybe he doesn’t have enough equity in it to make it pay, but at least he could divest himself of that big monthly payment and perhaps close out some of those equity loans too.  But regardless, Mr. Awad isn’t an example of soldiers being treated poorly after the war.  He’s getting $51,000/year in benefits (tax-free, I’m sure) which is more than a lot of us get.  And he deserves it, given his service, but his personal financial dilemmas are his own doing.

Again, we can’t protect citizens from their own bad decisions.

Does this tick you off? Click here to email your elected representatives right here on Say Anything, or comment below.

Comments

Good one, Rob; it’s always good to get past the emotion-based crap and run the real numbers.  The fact is, if you want to talk about poor treatment of returning vets, you can’t beat Vietnam, and that was exclusively due to the leftie hatred directed at them.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 09:36 am

He’s getting twice as much in government payments as I make working 40+ hours a week.  And he must have taken advantage of one of those “sub-prime” housing loans, because there’s no way a bank would give him a loan with that kind of debt-to-income ratio.


“No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

Daniel on September 30, 2007 at 09:42 am

GAMAL AWAD!
We let people with MUSLIM-sounding names like that into OUR MILITARY! Someone tell docdave and r108! We have to put an end to this! Someone, whip out a conditional that PROVES something and let’s gripe!


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 09:42 am
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

I don’t have a problem with his heritage.  I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on September 30, 2007 at 09:45 am

My first instinct is to passionately attack Rob for what appears to be his gross insensitivity to how some veterans suffer such great emotional damage in war that they simply cannot make good decisions when they come home and return to civilian life. My brother suffered a great deal after 2.5 tours in Vietnam, despite his many medals for valor he became a wife beater, he couldn’t hold a job and he was drifting through life. Thank the Lord he was able to make a turn around, without sucking once on the federal tit and he has succeeded in life, albeit his body is now failing him due to the injuries of war and thankfully Veteran’s Hospitals have helped him enormously.

We will always have a small number of our soldiers, as compared to the whole that need intensive, long term emotional and other medical help throughout their lives. But the question Rob correctly posed is this: When they get into trouble as did Mr. Awad, can we as a society be expected to keep them from making bad decisions in life and rescue them from all their gross mistakes, all in the name of honoring their prior war experiences? I think the answer is no!

They must have free access to medical care from the Veterans Administration all their lives, in many cases they must receive such financial help as necessary to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs, that is the least we can do for those warriors having risked their all that we might enjoy the fruits of liberty.

On the other hand, I don’t believe it is good for them, their fellow soldiers or society as a whole for us to deliver a message that we will absolve and rescue them from all their poor decisions in life. Most of us since WW-II went into the military voluntarily, knowing the risks and be willing to bear the burdens of our defense of liberty even after discharge. Until recent decades, we still expected out soldiers to take responsibility for their own lives after a war, they had to wake up and realize life is tough, they had to pull up their socks and make a life for themselves. Because we are grateful to them we have extended them many benefits; but, I think we must reassert that time proven formula of self reliance for all our citizens, including our soldiers, recognizing that some will need more help than others, but only help - not rescue from all the vicissitudes of life, for their good and for that of our country.

Lastly, no matter how many msitakes these broken soldiers make in life, no matter how much these mistakes cost them, if any should fail to honor them or offer kindness and some minimal help in times of crisis, these ungrateful citizens don’t deserve any of the fruits of that liberty wherein they now stand.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 09:57 am

I must add, because a few here are hypercritical and looking for weaknesses in others: I am of advanced age and I have never taken one penny from the Federal Government in health care, loans for housing, education or any benefit whatsoever.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 10:00 am

I don’t have a problem with his heritage.  I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.

It is highly probable that they selected a guy with an Islamic name for this article, simply for propaganda purposes, and it worked on Sparkie.
If we didn’t piss away huge sums of money on unnecessary and useless social engineering programs, we might have enough to take care of injured vets, but as you say, Rob, we aren’t responsible for his financial blunders.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 10:06 am

My first instinct is to passionately attack Rob…

Why not a reasonable and logical disagreement?  Why attack?


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 10:08 am

Awad used to make $100K, used to be married, maybe he could afford his house then.
Now he’s a basket case and you think his problem is poor financial planning.

compensation for his total disability from post-traumatic stress disorder. His flashbacks, thoughts of suicide, and anxiety over imagined threats — all documented for six years in his military record

WOOF on September 30, 2007 at 10:09 am

robert108: I hate it whenever you get involved in any debate, you are so unreasonable, overbearing, demanding, bullying and hypercritical of everything, as you are always and only just looking for a way to be disagreeable and hurt others. I wasn’t attacking Rob at all and I am willing to bet he did not think I was after reading my post, although by his own admission he rarely does read my posts.

I used that phrase in order to move from a point of liberal compassion Rob had mentioned in the thread, towards my own demand for personal responsibilty with some help along the way for our veterans. But, you would rather find a way to be disagreeable than to look at what is really being said, it is all hate with you.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 10:20 am

robert108: I hate it whenever you get involved in any debate, you are so unreasonable, overbearing, demanding, bullying and hypercritical of everything, as you are always and only just looking for a way to be
disagreeable and hurt others.

Gee, Neiman; I thought you might take a moment to consider the import of your own words and think about what you do, but instead you follow your “first instinct” and try to attack me.
Res ipsa loquitur.

You attribute your own motives and actions to me, as is usual for you.  Try to dial back the denial, just once.  You do nothing but spew hate.

You said that your first instinct was to attack, and you have just proved it again.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 10:29 am

Awad used to make $100K, used to be married, maybe he could afford his house then.

As Rob has already demonstrated with actual numbers, Awad wasn’t doing that well, even then.  Maybe he should have made a few adjustments.

Neiman: Of course you hate it when I expose you.  You are filled with hate, not Christian compassion.  Of course, you can always make a different choice.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 10:32 am

Robert108: I refuse to engage you in your boorish behavior any longer. I will just ignore you in the future, you are absolutely incapable of decent, civil or intelligent debate. You simply, could not resist your whooly unChristian impulse to find a point in my post wherein you could disagree and then cause chaos and disrupt reasonable debate under this thead. You failed, I will not respnd any further.

So, if you respond further to this matter, you are just pissing in the wind pal!


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 10:41 am

It seems as if everybody is a victim. It’s not just the obvious groups, either. Oh, sure, blacks and Hispanics have turned it into something of an art form. But give women half a chance and they’ll chew your ear off with their endless complaints.

Listen long enough to people like Sens. Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer and Byrd, and you could get the idea that working stiffs in America are being ground under by their bosses.

Nearly everybody in this country seems to revel in being a victim, and I can’t imagine why.

A cheap play for sympathy? Who wants it? Who needs it? Besides, sympathy quickly morphs into pity, and who in his right mind wants to be pitied?

The American Society of Victimology advances the discipline of victimology by promoting evidence based practice and by providing leadership in research and education

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 10:55 am

WOOF
The argument that if he was a RICH basketcase then he would be fine… does seem to hold some water. A ‘on the face’ inspection clearly depends on the meaning of ‘fine’, but if we grant a liberal definition… then I think the antecedent RICHness can only lead to being ‘fine’. Let’s consider an example and then digress into a rant, just to outdo the ‘jive’ you offer!

Look at the President of N. Korea. His only problems are, apparently, financial too. In line with this Dem line of reasoning… which is what it is (see above)... we have only to provide the N. Korean dictator with wads and wads of cash and he will, upon reaching the appropriate threshold (in the Dem case that would be the equal distribution of all the wealth arond the world amongst all gods creatures, including goat and lice) of wealth… thereby reach a state where he is ‘fine’. VOTE OBAMA IN ‘08! Pay the N.Koreans! Only let black and latin kids go to college! Drive the oil companies out of business! Pay whoever we can invoke emotion about! Get your nails done! Trade in your handguns for DIY Marxist indoctrination kits! Make everyone in society stare at unattractive naked women and old men making out for a minute every day! Lock everyone in a padded room to protect them! Don’t let people gamble and use the proceeds for education, that’s immoral! Steal it from them and use some of it for education and the rest to remodel your condo since you can’t afford to on the same salary as EVERYONE ELSE! We cannot ALL be victims now can we?


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 10:59 am

Joel: Isn’t victimization and class warfare at the heart of all Democrat Party policies? You have to admit it is very effective, sadly, because anyone thinking they are a victim on any level will tend to support those in the voting booth that will promise to stop their being victimized.

Some of our wounded soldiers are not immune from feeling like they too are victims and voting for anyone that will give them a free ride. I blame this on FDR and LBJ and the Democrat Party in general, in advancing the social engineering idea that we don’t need to be responsible for our own lives and actions, that government is a federal Nanny with enough tits for everyone at no costs to anyone.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 11:04 am

I blame this on FDR and LBJ and the Democrat Party in general, in advancing the social engineering idea that we [substitute “they”] don’t need to be responsible for our [substitue “their”] own lives and actions.
neiman

Ditto!!!

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 11:08 am

Listen long enough to people like Sens. Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer and Byrd, and you could get the idea that working stiffs in America are being ground under
by their bosses.

This is one of the central tenets of Marxism.  Byrds of a feather.

Isn’t victimization and class warfare at the heart of all Democrat Party policies?

Absolutely.  If they couldn’t buy votes that way, they would be out of business.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 11:10 am

i love it when r108 and knee-high-man get into fights. you just know there is going to be an agreement any time now.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 11:10 am

clearly depends on the meaning of ‘fine’,

Are you sure it’s not dependent on what the meaning of “is” is?

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 11:11 am

Robert108: I refuse to engage you in your boorish behavior any longer. I will just ignore you in the future, you are absolutely incapable of decent, civil or intelligent debate. You simply, could not resist your whooly unChristian impulse to find a point in my post wherein you could disagree
and then cause chaos and disrupt reasonable debate under this thead. You failed, I will not respnd any further.

So, if you respond further to this matter, you are just pissing in the wind pal!

So, like a typical bully, when your attack style doesn’t work, you claim victimhood and run away.  Good riddance.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 11:12 am

He’s getting $51,000/year in benefits (tax-free, I’m sure) which is more than a lot of us get.  And he deserves it, given his service.

He doesn’t need that much not to work. He could get by on half that. After you go nuts you are not entitled to the same amount of money… or even half… what you can make on your best year as a productive person. Regardless of whether ‘habib’ made you go nuts or not, not working is NOT working.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 11:16 am

We should split the bill for the nutso troops from the Iraq war between Israel and Iraq. Its their war, they can pay for our guys that go nuts fighting it.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 11:18 am

Neiman
You are such a victim. Quick… a hankie for my tears! Hee hee hee. VOTE OBAMA!


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on September 30, 2007 at 11:20 am

Sparkie: I have always been nice to you, did you take your anti-meanness pill today? I think you forgot!

It is always a great persnal failure to attack your friends, when the dancing starts you are without a partner!


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 11:26 am

Joel on your post of September 30, 2007 at 11:08 am:

The problem is, I am at a loss to know how to turn this unfortuante trend around, or even if that is possible. Those on the Right we tend to support because of shared political views, usually turn out to be unable to defend their own beliefs and work together towards any common goal. It is really quite frustrating.

Joel: Most conservative Americans are very discouraged. We see the war in Iraq going well and the economy has been doing great, and yet a great percentage of Americans seem to hold opposite views. We saw the Republican led Congress spend like drunken sailors and violate in their votes and/or personal lives some of the core social/moral issues we believe are important to a healthy society and there doesn’t seem to be much we can do about it except gripe and complain.

I for one don’t want to be part of a conservative support group like Alcoholics Anonymous.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 11:36 am

Let’s face it, in the grand scheme of things, the many & various complaints are mere quibbles, rarely rising even to the level of legitimate gripes.

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 11:45 am

Let’s face it, in the grand scheme of things, the many & various complaints are mere quibbles, rarely rising even to the level of legitimate gripes.

However, if they serve the interests of those pursuing a socialist utopia in America, like a blow fish they all increase in size and importance far beyond what they should, so that the Left can keep America feeling everything is a life and death crisis!


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 11:52 am

Neiman the last post I submitted was Friday, September 21, 2007

“Winning The Battle For The “Minds Of Men”
            [here]

If you’re talking about a comment, mouse click on the highlighted date/time, copy the link in the URL field at the top of the page, and add it to your next comment.

I’d like to re-read it in its original context.

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 12:00 pm

Joel: I am confused, I was talking about the post below under this thread:

Democrat Party in general, in advancing the social engineering idea that we [substitute “they”] don’t need to be responsible for our [substitue “their”] own lives and actions.

Neiman

Ditto!!

Maybe the word post is used improperly by me, maybe I should have said your last comment under this thread. I hope I haven’t caused confusion.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 12:06 pm

O.K., I got it…...thanks

Joel on September 30, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Avatar for Lestat

Awad used to make $100K, used to be married, maybe he could afford his house then.
Now he’s a basket case and you think his problem is poor financial planning.

Woof, this man is of no further use to the conservatives so fuck him There will be thousands of more like him in the coming years.  People who cannot function because we have broken them.  But PTSD isn’t a real disability to conservatives. 

How dare any of you claim to support the troops.

Lestat on September 30, 2007 at 03:39 pm

But PTSD isn’t a real disability to conservatives.

You lie again, Lestat.  Actually, he should have been given financial counseling to help him with the transition.  Maybe he was, and he refused it, we don’t know, because this story is designed to paint him as a victim.  Of course, that’s red meat for you America-hating lefties.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 03:42 pm
Avatar for Lestat

You lie again, Lestat.  Actually, he should have been given financial counseling to help him with the transition.

It’s not a financial transition problem dumbass, it’s a mental health problem.  But you righties don’t believe in mental health problems.  That’s why you shut down all the mental hospitals and put all the patients either on the street where they are homeless or in prisons where they don’t get treatment.

Lestat on September 30, 2007 at 03:49 pm
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this man is of no further use to the conservatives so fuck him

Lestat is projecting  again!


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Proof on September 30, 2007 at 03:49 pm

“I don’t have a problem with his heritage.  I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.”

You liked him and called him brave and patriotic when he went off to fight for you, supposedly.

It’s the definition of exploitation. Use them and throw them away when they aren’t any good to you any more.

Disgusting.

ews48 on September 30, 2007 at 03:55 pm
Avatar for Gregory

Think the reporter who wrote the story took up a collection amongst his fellow journalists in the newsroom to help this honorable man with a bill or two? Or is he of no further use to the Associated Press?  Mr. Awad pick up your phone, Keith Olbermans calling.

Gregory on September 30, 2007 at 03:56 pm

It’s not a financial transition problem dumbass, it’s a mental health problem. Why then was he focusing on his financial situation?  He didn’t make the financial adjustments he should have made to accommodate his change in physical and mental condition. But you righties don’t believe in mental health problems. You just made that up. Any proof? That’s why you shut down all the mental hospitals Not all of them, of course, so you lie again. Actually, we kept the lefties from using phony mental illness claims to excuse criminals and lock up dissidents.  You guys were building a real gulag there for awhile. and put all the patients either on the street where they are homeless Most homeless people think they are smart in avoiding paying rent to “the man”. Mental illness or leftieism?  You decide. or in prisons where they don’t get treatment. What’s the cure rate for what you decide is “mental illness”?


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 03:56 pm

Rob writes:  I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is going to be a serious serious issue for our returning vets.  I don’t believe that you can isolate specific parts of the vet with PTSD and claim that this is self-inflicted.

Rob, your support for the troops is clear but it would also be helpful if you would do just a bit of reading on PTSD and not jump to conclusions that this is self-inflicted.
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/post_traumatic_stress_disorder_symptoms_treatment.htm#consequences

Puzzlefeet on September 30, 2007 at 04:02 pm

From what this article states about Mr Awad’s finances he was massively over extended prior to 9/11. With combat shock and physical disabilities his life will never be the same, still, did his wife divorce him because of PTSD or to get out from under a mountain of debt.

I have known too many disabled vets, and their families, to see this story in the light cast by it’s author. Adjustable rate mortgages only adjust in one direction. That is why so many people, vets and civs, are getting burned right now.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 30, 2007 at 04:38 pm

It’s not a financial transition problem dumbass, it’s a mental health problem.

I don’t know who wrote this but, you are right! I made the point that some of our veterans have very real mental health problems caused by their wartime experiences and some of them need intensive, lifetime help to recover their mental health; and they also need the loving compassionate support of family and clergy to restore broken lives.

Since the dawn of man until recent decades, no matter how severe the physical or emotional injuries recieved during war, we expected and I believe rightly so that, each man take responsibility for their actions. For instance, if they exhibit alcohol or drug dependency problems and drive and kill someone, would we let them off simply because they started drinking or taking drugs during combat?  I think the answer is clearly no! Most of our soldiers understand this and they are determined to recover and live full active lives.

Those with mental problems caused by their wartime experiences are not capable of assuming such personal responsibility, so we must ask ourselves, as a society, whether we will bail these people out of every mistake in life; or, will we force them to face reality and thereby assume responsibility for their own decisions.

Those on the Left of a more compassionate, I believe faulty, nature would opt for continually bailing them out and being co-dependents in their mistakes. The cold blooded on the far right would say to hell with them, let them sink and die. In the middle are those of us with a more realistic and yet compassionate nature that would ask these men to face reality which includes rectifying their mistakes, and at the same time we feel we need to provide them with intensive, long term mental health care to help them begin taking responsibility for their own lives. If these veterans refuse help, then we can pray for them and wish them well, but we cannot force them to do anything to help themselves.

We owe our freedom to these warriors, even those with severe mental problems, so kicking them to the curb is to akin to saying ‘yes we want you to risk your lives for us and suffer even lifetime injuries, but after that military job is done - go screw yourselves.’ I believe we owe them help in every way possible to recover, just as we would those with a missing limb or sight; but the difference is that if the mental health problem causes them to engage in irresponsible acts, we must force them to accept responsibility for these acts, while helping them to learn, grow and avoid these mistakes in the future,


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on September 30, 2007 at 04:49 pm

I suppose Guttermouth you could jump to that conclusion or you could also say that they (meaning he and his wife) had the appropriate income to support the housewhere they lived according to the full text of the article. I also think the entire article is interesting and points out that these disabilities not only affect the injured vet but their entire family with sometimes tragic outcomes.

I really don’t think you can separate the two, the debt from the PSTD.  The rate of divorce where there is PSTD is staggering.  I just think that this is going to be a huge huge issue with our returning vets and we are just beginning to see the effects and they will longlasting.

Puzzlefeet on September 30, 2007 at 04:55 pm

Neiman, I can’t disagree with what you wrote.  The important thing is to make sure there is a support system in place that the vet can access at any time.  Right now I think we are coming up short in that are.

Puzzlefeet on September 30, 2007 at 04:59 pm

Awads kids probably will be receiving Social Security because of his disability.

WOOF on September 30, 2007 at 05:11 pm

So, the socialist wants to bailout everyone who is financially over extended. What a shock.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 30, 2007 at 05:58 pm

Right now I think we are coming up short in that are.

Hint: We have always “come up short in that are(a).”, at least, according to the lying lefties, who are always looking to create a new victim class, and who are always looking for something more to blame on the President.  Boring.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 05:59 pm

It’s not a financial transition problem dumbass, it’s a mental health problem.

More leftie hatespew; this time in the form of a false dichotomy.  I never said he should get financial counseling instead of care for his mental condition; I proposed it as an addition.  The hate-filled leftie just made that up out of his BDS.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 06:03 pm

Rob writes: I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.

What part of “financial situation” don’t you understand?  He was in over his head before he went to Iraq; check the numbers.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 06:05 pm

It’s the definition of exploitation. Use them and throw them away when they aren’t any good to you any more.

This guy volunteered, so he wasn’t “used”.  He is receiving benefits, so he isn’t being “thrown away”, either.  How much have you sent him, ews?  Put your money where your big mouth is.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 06:08 pm

r, the VA has a long history of Fing veterans over. DoD ain’t no better from their end. And just take a wild guess which party the majority of career VA and DoD bureaucrats vote for on a consistent basis.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 30, 2007 at 07:40 pm

r, the VA has a long history of Fing veterans over.

I’m well aware of this, and it didn’t just start with the war in Iraq veterans.  In fact, compared to some veterans of other wars, the Iraq veterans aren’t the worst off.  That doesn’t justify any maltreatment of vets, btw.  It just isn’t “Bush’s fault”, the mantra of today’s military-hating and America-hating lefties.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on September 30, 2007 at 07:59 pm
Rob
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You liked him and called him brave and patriotic when he went off to fight for you, supposedly.

It’s the definition of exploitation. Use them and throw them away when they aren’t any good to you any more.

Disgusting.

The guy is getting nearly $60,000/year in benefits from the government, and probably more as that’s just what was alluded to in the article.  I don’t begrudge him one red cent of any of that.

But at what point should we not accept a little responsibility?

This all plays so perfectly into leftist strategy.  Turn the soldiers into victims, and then use them to further your political agenda.

And I’m the one being accused of exploitation.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on September 30, 2007 at 08:28 pm

The gov’t is responsible to treat and hopefully cure the cause but not the effect.
We can not create yet another “hood” for people to live in and never have a need or desire to move out of.
Mr Awad most certainly does need and deserves all the standard financial benefits he is entitled too for his extraordinary service to the country.
I don’t believe there is any one of us who would argue about him receiving all possible medical benefits we can give him to recover from his mental illness.
Put his PTSD issue aside, people need to realize Awad would have most likely been facing these financial problems as soon as he retired from the service without PTSD.
If he is unable to function in a way to support his lifestyle because of PTSD, then perhaps he needs full time care/treatment in a facility that can treat his PTSD condition. When he is better able to adapt to living in normal society his entitled financial benefits will not only continue but should have accumulated quite substantially while he was in treatment.


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Anna on October 1, 2007 at 09:44 am
Avatar for Bike Bubba

Regarding PTSD, it’s instructive that many nations have maintained “Hospitals des Invalides” (sp?) for veterans wounded, mentally or physically, by the wars they fought.  They understood well that a lot of soldiers come back from the wars unable to handle the stresses of everyday life.

But that said, well said by our gracious host.  The simple fact is that any good financial counselor could have told this poor man that he was in seriously above his head, and that before he lost his job.  Sorry, but $5700 monthly in payments translates to over $600k in debt, far too heavy a load for even an income of $100k annually.

As harsh as it sounds, perhaps the kindest thing that could be done for Major Awad is to tell him to let the house (and his debt) go, and dwell humbly in a Hospital des Invalides.

Bike Bubba on October 1, 2007 at 01:48 pm

As harsh as it sounds, perhaps the kindest thing that could be done for Major Awad is to tell him to let the house (and his debt) go, and dwell humbly in a Hospital des Invalides.

Or even a reasonable rental.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on October 1, 2007 at 01:59 pm
Avatar for Bike Bubba

R*108, I’d actually suggest that he might want to go to a place that knows better how to care for him.  The reason is that $47k in credit card debt; he’s got some problems that he needs some serious help for, and he ain’t gonna get it in Section 8 housing.

Bike Bubba on October 1, 2007 at 02:10 pm

Section 8 housing.

I said a reasonable rental, not Section 8 housing.  He could easily save $4000 a month by simply renting a place.  That would go a long way toward helping him to discharge his debt and not go any farther in debt.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on October 1, 2007 at 02:30 pm
Avatar for Bike Bubba

You’re forgetting one factor; smart landlords pull a credit check, and often a background check, on prospective renters, and when they see an otherwise healthy man come in with income derived from disability checks and with massive debts, they’re going to put two and two together and decline to rent to him unless they’re forced to.

In other words, if he chooses to leave his home (good choice) and rent an apartment (good choice), he’s going to bounce down from the “prime” and “nice” properties to the “not so nice” properties where the government forces landlords to take renters.

Put gently, this man’s case indicates exactly why a “Hopital des Invalides” was in many ways a brilliant idea, even if at times flawed in application.  Some veterans simply need more help than our society likes to give.

Bike Bubba on October 1, 2007 at 03:36 pm

BB, r108, I just emailed a friend in the American Legion with the particulars of Major Awads situation. He is a hard charging former Infantry First Sergeant, and relishes breaking off his artificial foot in folk’s asses to get shit done. And yes, he is intimately familiar with PTSD. And financial issues. And the F-ing VA. He particularly enjoys pissing in their punchbowl when the target presents itself.

Hopefully they can get this troop some further assistance, though Doargnner figures from what the article states the man is going to at least loose the house. Multiple refinance/home equity loans is a red flag.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on October 1, 2007 at 04:05 pm

Two: Doesn’t quite sound like the victim the lefties are portraying him as.  Probably a convenient story for the anti-Administration types.


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on October 1, 2007 at 04:21 pm

You’re forgetting one factor; smart landlords pull a credit check, and often a background check, on prospective renters, and when they see an otherwise healthy man come in with income derived from disability checks and with massive debts, they’re going to put two and two together and decline to rent to him unless they’re forced to.

You certainly imagine a dark scenario, but have you any evidence that it might be possible in this particular case?


If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

robert108 on October 1, 2007 at 04:34 pm

BB, you would be amazed who would rent to him BECAUSE of his particular situation. Its funny, what brothers will do for each other.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on October 1, 2007 at 04:49 pm

Joel - Nearly everybody in this country seems to revel in being a victim, and I can’t imagine why.

Sure you do. It’s a source of power.

That the source of power is demeaning to both themselves and their fellow citizens matters not, for this source of power is purely selfish.

Lestat and ews48 - you’re both jackasses. You don’t read what any of us say. You just make up your own narrative and then attack that narrative. In effect, you’re doing exactly what you declare conservatives are - you’re exploiting this soldier. Projection is the game you guys are playing.

Puzzlefeet said, Rob writes:  I just don’t think he should blame his self-inflicted financial situation on the government.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is going to be a serious serious issue for our returning vets.  I don’t believe that you can isolate specific parts of the vet with PTSD and claim that this is self-inflicted.

Financial situations are equal to PTSD? Do you have trouble reading Puzzlefeet? The guy made stupid financial decisions before the PTSD. Don’t pawn off the responsibility onto any of us. We didn’t tell the guy that it was a good idea to take on a huge house he couldn’t afford while racking up credit debt.

Personal responsibility - look into it.

likwidshoe on October 1, 2007 at 04:53 pm
Avatar for Bike Bubba

R*108, I have no evidence except for what the article states; huge debts and no work for over a year.  If I were a landlord, this would be a HUGE red flag telling me that I might look elsewhere for a renter.  2H9 might be right that some might make a special case to help a vet, and for Awad’s sake I hope he’s right.

The long and short of it, though, is that guys like Awad make landlords (like my in-laws) miserable, and I can’t blame the smart ones if they make good use of the credit reports the law allows them to pull.

Bike Bubba on October 2, 2007 at 07:05 am

BB, you are absolutely right. I have spent most of my adult life in construction/remodeling and residential maintenance. Commercial renters, such as Lincoln Properties or Rowand Residential will not lease to anyone who has a questionable record. On that other hand, they will rent to section 8 and HUD leasees. Because they know they can make buckets full of money off Uncle Sugar.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on October 2, 2007 at 03:27 pm
Avatar for trippy

This is a hyperlink to the San Diego Conservative.  They stated that they have verified that Awad is on the up and up.  They have his contact information as well.

trippy on October 15, 2007 at 10:06 am
Avatar for trippy
trippy on October 15, 2007 at 10:08 am
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