Say Anything Blog

Rob: Lest we forget, the so-called “minimum wage” is really a gift to the union thugs, who then can justify strong-arming businesses to raise their wages, which have to be a certain amount above the minimum wage.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Bureau of Labor Statistics

According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2006, 76.5 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.7 percent of all wage and salary workers.1 Of those paid by the hour, 409,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.3 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 1.7 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.2 percent of all hourly-paid workers. Tables 1-10 present data on a wide array of demographic and socioeconomic characteristics for hourly-paid workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage. The following are some highlights from the 2006 data.

We have a law that is called the Minimum Wage, but it really doesn’t mean anything because tipped workers whose wages are subsidized by customer are discriminated against because of the good will of those customers.

Your argument is sounds, but your numbers are skewed using numbers that spins the truth doesn’t help you.  Especially when the real number is readily available.

*IF* there is to be a minimum wage, it should be for everyone.  You should attack the fact that the Democrats allow discrimination to continue against tipped workers.

Another 1.3 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 1.7 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.2 percent of all hourly-paid workers.

But if wages+tips puts food service people over the minimum wage (and that’s almost always the case, unless you’re a horrible waiter) they’re not exactly making the minimum are they?  Their total income from their job is above the minimum.

So the post is, actually, explicitly accurate.

*IF* there is to be a minimum wage, it should be for everyone.  You should attack the fact that the Democrats allow discrimination to continue against tipped workers.

Why would I do that?  I don’t think there should be a minimum wage.  I think everyone should be paid exactly what they’re willing to work for.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Only 450,000 people? Only .whatever percent?

These are people, not numbers. Anyone earning the minimum wage or less even if they are getting tips is barely surviving. Another buck an hour might make the difference between them being homeless or not as their landlords raise the rent or keeping their heat turned on this summer.

Department of labor statistics are a manipulated political tool. These people are working because there is a job to be done. Will the jobs just not get done because there is a minimum raise increase? Restaurant owners pocket much more than $40 per week in cash.

ews48,

It is neither realistic nor Constitutional for the Federal Government to guarantee some arbitrary standard of living to all who live here.  Attempts to do so are a waste of time and taxes.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Anyone earning the minimum wage or less even if they are getting tips is barely surviving.

How do you know?  Most earning the minimum wage are teenagers.  Another good chunk are retirees just staying busy.  Most of the rest are part-timers just making some extra cash.

Enough with the emotional BS.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

As has been posted here before, the loss of jobs is associated with an increase in minimum wage because minimum wage workers generally do work that can be automated thus eliminating the jobs.  Something that the bleeding heart liberals choose to ignore.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

There’s a typo in your quote that I fixed in a later version. I misplaced a decimal point—it’s 0.33%, not 0.033%. Sorry about that, Rob…

J.

ews48 makes up reality, Anyone earning the minimum wage or less even if they are getting tips is barely surviving.

Reminds me of back when I had a server girlfriend. She was making below the minimum wage and yet took home about 200 bucks daily because of all of the tips.

Why do you consider 200 bucks a day “barely surviving”? In what expensive locale do you reside in?

What kind of gall does it take to make your kind of claim?

Can you please stop talking for other people? It’s rude. Can you please mind your own damn business for once? Butt out ews48. Nobody invited you to speak for servers who make less than the minimum wage. Nobody invited you to LIE about the situation.

Yeah.  Only one third of a percent is actually at minimum wage.  So why not continue to fuck’em.  Busniness claims that they will go out of business to give the lowest paid workers a raise, so fuck’em.  After all the business tax breaks in the Bushit administration years you would think people would FINALLY get used to the idea of screwing the poor, sick and colored folks.  That is what the Repulsive Party stands for anyway isn’t it?

Yeah.  Only one third of a percent is actually at minimum wage.  So why not continue to fuck’em.

You’re letting your angry emotions serve as a basis for your economic policy. Do you see the problem here?

After all the business tax breaks in the Bushit administration years you would think people would FINALLY get used to the idea of screwing the poor, sick and colored folks.  That is what the Repulsive Party stands for anyway isn’t it?

WHAT are you talking about? “Bushit”? Tax breaks are screwing the poor and “colored folks”? You’ve lost your mind.

Well, the poster forgot to mention that a raise in the MW affects everyone being paid between the MW and the value it is raised to, not just those getting that exact amount (this is the sort of reasoning clumsiness that I see so often at these conservative sites.) He also neglected to acknowledge that a “raise” in a monetary value is only a raise if defined in real, adjusted terms, and the MW has been falling for years. The current raise would only bring it closer up to it’s value around 1968.

Well, the poster forgot to mention that a raise in the MW affects everyone being paid between the MW and the value it is raised to, not just those getting that exact amount (this is the sort of reasoning clumsiness that I see so often at these conservative sites.)

Oh, well that’s understood. No need to point it out.

But I guess it needs pointed out to you, lest you say that it is “clumsiness” that the obvious isn’t spelled out.

He also neglected to acknowledge that a “raise” in a monetary value is only a raise if defined in real, adjusted terms, and the MW has been falling for years.

Also understood.

The current raise would only bring it closer up to it’s value around 1968.

You don’t know that. You’re not factoring in the inflation that happens every time there’s a minimum wage increase. You’re also not factoring in the ten percent or so of Americans who are unionized. Many of those union contracts are based on set amounts above the minimum wage. The minimum wage goes up and they all get a raise. The price of goods and services then goes up. We call this inflation.

Neil B., we’ll just chalk your glaring inaccuracy to your “reasoning clumsiness”. You sure do display it in spades!

Neil, I didn’t “forget” to mention it. I was noting the number of Americans who make the minimum wage for an entire year. That would be the number who make the annual salary that gets quoted all the time when people take the minimum wage and multiply it out for an entire year.

For a long time I kept asking for that info, looking for it, and no one had it—but everyone could tell me just how much money it was.

The point is, these are the people being used to justify raising the minimum wage—and there aren’t really that many of them after all.

J.

likwidshoe: But you still refer to “factoring in the inflation that happens every time there’s a minimum wage increase” as if you didn’t get the point that it’s still not an “increase” if it just keeps up with the CPI. In fact, even keeping the MW constant in real dollars shouldn’t be an inflationary force. As productivity increases, the same buying power of MW reflects an ever-decreasing portion of productivity relative to the average. (BTW the Fed really has responsibility to control through monetary policy, instead of people blaming the lowest paid workers. Why not blame the highest-paid, and the amount more the company needs to charge to pay for them?)

As for the union pay scales, that is a separate issue that should involve negotiation or change in law perhaps, but once again if the MW stays constant in real dollars there’s no reason it should matter much - again, it’s the illusion created by a sudden change and would sort out if the MW had been indexed all along for gradual adjustment.

docdave: Few MW jobs are being eliminated by automation, AFAIK, since so much is face to face service stuff. OTOH, we are losing good jobs to outsourcing, which we can fight by penalizing any revenue originating outside the USA.

BTW, what do you folks think of the Federal Reserve and how the money supply works, anyway? I have quite a bit of populist skepticism (bet you didn’t know I am more a populist, very against illegal immigration, pro gun ownership, don’t like Kelo decision but suspicious of corporations etc. Watch Lou Dobbs show, to get the idea...)

likwidshoe: But you still refer to “factoring in the inflation that happens every time there’s a minimum wage increase” as if you didn’t get the point that it’s still not an “increase” if it just keeps up with the CPI.

Is this a response to anything I said? No.

In fact, even keeping the MW constant in real dollars shouldn’t be an inflationary force.

Explain. The reality tells us differently (raise the cost of doing business = prices go up; happens every time), but humor us.

(BTW the Fed really has responsibility to control through monetary policy, instead of people blaming the lowest paid workers....

“Blaming the lowest paid workers”? Straw man!

Why not blame the highest-paid, and the amount more the company needs to charge to pay for them?)

You want to blame the highest-paid for the wages set by the free market? That makes no sense.

As for the union pay scales, that is a separate issue that should involve negotiation or change in law perhaps, but once again if the MW stays constant in real dollars there’s no reason it should matter much...

You keep on saying that it “should” not matter much, but you’re glossing over the fact that it does matter when you raise the minimum wage. Why so adamant on denying this reality?

...again, it’s the illusion...

No, it’s not an illusion. What’s with you?

...a sudden change and would sort out if the MW had been indexed all along for gradual adjustment.

That would sort out if only the government coerces it’s way into a private matter? Again, that makes no sense. Inflation is inflation, and you can’t get away from that.

OTOH, we are losing good jobs to outsourcing, which we can fight by penalizing any revenue originating outside the USA.

You’re big on penalties and have a real disdain for freedom. That’s sad.

You know how else we can “fight” outsourcing? Lower taxes and regulations.

Btw, what is your proposal for all of the insourcing? You think that other countries would be happy with your proposed penalties? What do you think they would do?