Say Anything Blog

Rob,

The Constitution forbids religious tests as a qualification for office.  The electorate can and does impose whatever tests it deems appropriate.  That is one reason why ballots are marked in private and do not bear the name of the individual casting the ballot.

You and I may not approve of our fellow citizens using religion as a litmus test, but it’s not something we can or should enforce.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney beat me too it.  A person can vote for a person for whatever reason they want to.

For me, I’m not going to vote for Obama because of his socialist views.  Others can not vote for him for whatever reason they want.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

The Constitution is clear about there being no religious litmus tests for federal office…

The Constitution is silent on what the voter’s may decide to make an issue.

...and even if he was a Muslim that wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.

Islam is fundamentally an evil religion.

That makes it a very bad thing.

Barack Hussein Obama.

Let his middle name be a reminder that if Barack were President, Saddam Hussein would still be dictator. If this country followed Barack’s policies, Saddam would still be running the rape rooms.

There may not be a “Litmus” test but the Constitution doesn’t tell the American people what to believe.  Is Obama a Muslim?  No he is not...but his father was and I think he is a Muslim sympathizer at a minimum.  Islam is a evil death cult and even so called “Moderate” Muslims refuse to take a stand against the so called extremeists.  The so called “Moderate” Muslims are more concerned with the “Laws” of Political Correctness and making excuses for the terrorists.

The reasons I will not vote for Obama are many:

He is the LEAST qualified canidate in history to get as close to becoming President as he has. 

He is a straight up SOCIALIST.

He wants to raise taxes.

He is a complete moron when it comes to Foreign Policy.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

I brought up the Constitutional thing because, in terms of qualifications for President, it’s meaningless.  But I’m not the best person to comment on this.  Religion means nothing to me.  I’d vote for a witch doctor if I thought he or she was fiscally conservative and appropriately hawkish on foreign policy.

It’s just who I am, I guess.

But I disagree that there’s anything fundamentally evil about Islam.  Christianity was, at one time, every bit as brutal as Islam can be now.  The difference is that Christianity has evolved.  Islam, in a lot of ways, hasn’t.  But one can still be an honorable and patriotic citizen of this country and be Muslim.

Finally, I just think it’d be more effective to attack Obama on the goofy religion we know he belongs to.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

But I disagree that there’s anything fundamentally evil about Islam.  Christianity was, at one time, every bit as brutal as Islam can be now.

But was Christianity fundamentally evil?

Christianity was born out of sacrifice. The sacrifice of Jesus to be specific.

Islam was born out of war, rape, and conquest.

Huge difference.

Lik,

Yep. About what one would expect of a religion founded by a brigand, murderer, rapist, child molester, and despoiler of barnyard animals.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Back on topic - Obama isn’t a Muslim, but he is a Marxist.

Who has the bigger death count? Hard to tell.

Marxists are enemies of America. They stand in opposition to all of America’s ideals.

Lik,

Marxist, or ”honest" product of the Chicago Political Machine?

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Christianity was, at one time, every bit as brutal as Islam can be now.

Not an historically accurate statement, Rob.

I very much doubt that we will elect a Muslim as President of the United States any time in the foreseeable future, unless Obama is successful in surrendering to the terrorists.  In that case, we will have no more Presidents, just Imams.  Nice.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

There is no Christian equivalent to “conversion by the sword”.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

Christianity was, at one time, every bit as brutal as Islam can be now.

That is just a silly statement and based in Anti-Christian Propaganda.

The new perspective on Obama is startling.

Really, take the evidence.  His suspicious middle name, the alluring article from the Asia times, his father, and the picture of him with Muslims.

A personal side to Obama has been shown that has never been before.  AND it needs to continue!!!

Trail-Mix is right on target! ”He is the LEAST qualified canidate in history to get as close to becoming President as he has.”

SCARY STUFF! Dems are just picking a good-looking guy.
Well, it is time to know about him.  His real trials should have hardly begun.

I don’t know Trail-mix.  Chivalry in the 1100’s was profane--it was so emphasized that any moderate thought was painfully excluded.

The Spanish Inquisition took “suffering” to a whole nother level.

And the crusades at some points we’re nearly meaningless all in the name for “the virgin”

You’re damn right I’m going to apply a religious test to Obama, but not because he maybe some secret crypto-Muslim.  Besides his ridiculous policy positions, I won’t vote for him because of the racist church he proudly belongs to.

Marxist, or ”honest” product of the Chicago Political Machine?

He’s a follower of Saul Alinsky.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

Speaking solely about Christianity and the atrocities and brutality, most if not all of them were committed by the Catholic Church during their early days.  Most Americans and others give the Germans and the Japanese a pass on their brutality and that was mere decades as opposed to centuries ago.  I would hessitate to believe that Christianity’s past was ever as barbaric and brutal as the last century of Marxism and Facism have been.  Not.  Even.  Close.  So what we can probably agree on is that Christianity has at very best, an occasionally checkered and imperfect past dating back several centuries.  Germany, Russia, Japan, China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, Darfur… these places have far worse issues that date back mere decades.

But save it be a few of the above listed institutions, this is their past.  Islam’s brutality in its past is legendary.  It is worse than any skeletons Christianity has hiding in its closet, though maybe the Crusades and some of the Old Testament rivals some of the lighter periods of Islam’s power grabs.  But it makes little sense to compare our checkered pasts to checkered pasts, when Islam’s brutality today is actually worse than it was in the 1000’s because now they have bigger swords, more merciless killers, and video cameras and the Internet to broadcast their fucked up religion of peace.

Christians are not out there holding Salem witch trials in 2008.  Islam is beheading people, stoning women to death, and cutting off limbs even as we speak.

Republicans can learn a lesson from the Clinton leak machine’s attempts to smear Obamessiah with “muslim photos”, “Chicago buddies”, and sleaze.  It isn’t working for Hill, and she is the queen of attacks and smears.

She is finally waking up to the fact that appeals to racism, religious intolerance, and negative ads don’t work because Obama is so damned effective at portraying Clinton as exactly what she is--the sleazy end of Bill’s sleaze machine.

You beat Obama based on the issues and experience.  Personal attacks, hit pieces, smears won’t work.  You beat him by going issue by issue and comparing your ideas side by side with his.  And by talking over and over about leadership and experience.  Any other strategy, no matter how true and how much it fires conservatives up, will fail.  He is teflon.  And he can play the race card and it actually works because he doesn’t play it the same way the dems have been playing it before.  He has a new race card.  No screaming and yelling “racism”, just smiling and saying that this is politics as usual, he is above racism and bigottry, and that he is going to “change” this kind of intolerance.

The crusades were a response to Islam’s war of conquest against Christian lands.

Once again, blame the victim.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

I don’t know Trail-mix.  Chivalry in the 1100’s was profane--it was so emphasized that any moderate thought was painfully excluded.

What?

The Spanish Inquisition took “suffering” to a whole nother level.

The Spanish Inquisition was far from pleasant, but it definitely had a political aspect to it. The SI was one of the reasons that we seperated Church and state as two distinct powers that could influence, but not control each other. The Spanish crown started the inquisition as a tool against their enemies. When the Pope didn’t agree, the crown threatened to leave Rome vulnerable to the Turks. The Pope relunctantly agreed, only to turn around and be horrified at the result. Describing the SI as inherently Christian, as opposed to Spanish control over the Christian Church, is false.

And the crusades at some points we’re nearly meaningless all in the name for “the virgin”

The Crusades all had meaning. Mostly as a response to Islamic takeover of the Holy Land.

When we look at the “socialist paradise” that is Cuba, we must remember that a sizable share of the misery those people suffer is directly attributable to Che Guevara bringing Castro into power, and giving him many of the policies that have caused so much pain. The real symbol of Che should be the raft, to remind us of all those who have died on rafts in the ocean trying to escape the Cuban nightmare and get to freedom. And had he not been killed, begging for his life like a coward, he would’ve done the same thing again and again in countries all throughout Latin and South America. His actions have inspired terrorists across a continent and caused countless deaths.

I was balancing Trail-Mix’ comment.

Kenny, you obviously don’t know about the romantic era of the 11th century do you?

I was balancing Trail-Mix’ comment.

Why?  The truth doesn’t require “balance”, does it?

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

I was balancing Trail-Mix’ comment.

By being wrong?

Kenny, you obviously don’t know about the romantic era of the 11th century do you?

I have now re-read your quote and STILL have no clue what you were talking about? What about the 11th century don’t you like pray tell? I am knowledgable about many things, but what you are thinking is not one of them.

You don’t like chavlry? OK....why? And don’t just say, it was brutal. What was? English chivalry? Spanish chivalry? The knightly code didn’t stay constant. It wasn’t some blanket code. It changed from king to king, region to region, and country to country. So pardon me if I’m not exactly certain when you say you don’t like 11th century chivary. And saying “you don’t know much about the 11th century” seems even sillier as that broadens the scope, not limits it.

A lot happened in the 1100 hundreds. Care to not be be obtuse here?

When we look at the “socialist paradise” that is Cuba, we must remember that a sizable share of the misery those people suffer is directly attributable to Che Guevara bringing Castro into power, and giving him many of the policies that have caused so much pain. The real symbol of Che should be the raft, to remind us of all those who have died on rafts in the ocean trying to escape the Cuban nightmare and get to freedom. And had he not been killed, begging for his life like a coward, he would’ve done the same thing again and again in countries all throughout Latin and South America. His actions have inspired terrorists across a continent and caused countless deaths.

I wouldn’t vote for a Muslim because I’m afraid of them. I don’t care if Reagan himself came down from heaven and stomped for a particular candidate. I’ve read a good chunk of the Koran, visited pro and anti Islamic websites, read books by former Muslims and have watched what adherents to this lunacy have done and are still doing.

You Christian idiots are funny, and while Likwidshoe claims not to be Christian, he certainly has bias towards this religion.

Your religion tells you that yours is the correct religion, and other religions are bad, like in the story of Moses and the Golden Goat (not sure of the exact name).

Have you not heard of witch burning/drowning, inquisitions, persecution of the Moors and the Jews (and other Christians even), forced conversions, and one of the crusades which was a bunch of nuts following a duck (or some other bird)?

If you are tempted to think your religion is all fine and dandy, but some other religion is evil, then you are hardly the most objective nut on the planet.

Faith is the enemy of reason.

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Have you not heard of witch burning/drowning, inquisitions, persecution of the Moors and the Jews (and other Christians even), forced conversions, and one of the crusades which was a bunch of nuts following a duck (or some other bird)?

Yeah, like 500 years ago?

Maybe your ire should be directed at, you know, people who are actually doing this kind of thing today.

...and while Likwidshoe claims not to be Christian, he certainly has bias towards this religion.

Christianity is not a threat to me.

If anything, the religion has been a positive force in this non-believer’s life.

Have you not heard of witch burning/drowning

HISTORY.

inquisitions

HISTORY.

persecution of the Moors and the Jews (and other Christians even)

HISTORY.

forced conversions

HISTORY.

and one of the crusades which was a bunch of nuts following a duck (or some other bird)?

HISTORY.

You’ve got nothing.

The Christians went through something that they called Enlightenment. I give them credit for it. You apparently don’t.

If you are tempted to think your religion is all fine and dandy, but some other religion is evil, then you are hardly the most objective nut on the planet.

If you are tempted to think that these religions are all the same, and no religion is any more evil than the next, then you are hardly the most objective nut on the planet. In fact, you don’t even recognize objectivity. It is a foreign concept to you.

Faith is the enemy of reason.

Indeed. As has been amply demonstrated by you.

Faith is the enemy of reason.

AV,

Your pronouncement might have some small rhetorical merit, but for one rather substantial problem… You.  For if there is anyone here who has shown a decided penchant for the unambiguously irrational it is you.

For all your self-righteous prattle about objectivity, you are as bigoted in your viewpoint, as disjointed and irrational in your “thinking”, and as unobjective in your pronouncements as any of those who you choose to criticize.

You may have fooled yourself into believing that you have replaced irrational belief with cogent, rational thought, but I can assure you that the only one impressed by that specious excuse for an argument is you.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Faith is the enemy of reason.

Thats odd, given that Albert Einstein was a devout believer in a divine creator until he drew his last breath, as was Charled Darwin, Jonas Salk and Sir issac Newton.

Let me assure you, anarchist vegeterian, that at the moment in your life when you receive the worst news you will ever hear, or should the moment come on a dark road when a head-on collision comes hurtling at you, you will cry out or think, Oh, God!

You may not be into God, but God is in you.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

It is messed up that whenever talk is centered around talk of Islam’s present day evils, an Islamic defender always inevitably brings up Christianity’s long ago history. Stuff from hundreds of years ago.

They then try the equivalency argument while arguing for “reason”.

You couldn’t make that up.

It is messed up that whenever talk is centered around talk of Islam’s present day evils, an Islamic defender always inevitably brings up Christianity’s long ago history. Stuff from hundreds of years ago.

Lik,

For those on the Left, the ones with so little stomach for reality, it is a marvelously entertaining diversion, ignoring the uncertainty of contemporary threats in favor of fighting yesterday’s battles with assurance.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

No enemies on the left? Hell, no enemies anywhere as long as they hate the United States.

AV seems to have bought into that theory a little too deeply.

Bat One - ...it is a marvelously entertaining diversion, ignoring the uncertainty of contemporary threats in favor of fighting yesterday’s battles with assurance.

It is also deadly.

Maybe AV has not heard of the case of Fawza Falih, a woman convicted of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia and sentenced to death.

A man accused her of using witchcraft to make him impotent.

But that’s okay I guess, because it isn’t christians doing it . . .

Lik,

The problem isn’t that such diversion can prove deadly. The problem is that it isn’t selectively so.  If it was only those on the left who endured the risk of their obstinate indifference to reality, then there would be little to be gained in saving them from their own stupidity.

Since I ama conservative and not a Democrat, I’m a firm believer in consequences.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

The problem isn’t that such diversion can prove deadly. The problem is that it isn’t selectively so.  If it was only those on the left who endured the risk of their obstinate indifference to reality...

Agreed 100%. Their lack of foresight proves deadly for US!

It becomes unacceptable at that point.

Thats odd, given that Albert Einstein was a devout believer in a divine creator—pparets

Well, that is open to interpretation. He certainly said things like “God does not play dice with the universe”. But he didn’t mean the benevolent/malevolent dictator of a God that you believe in.

There are other quotes where he definitely rejects the notion of a divine creator. He rejected his religious upbringing at 19, and he used “God” in a way that someone could use the phrase “Mother Nature”, much like a deist (like a lot of the founding fathers).

or should the moment come on a dark road when a head-on collision comes hurtling at you, you will cry out or think, Oh, God!—pparets

Been there, not what happened. It was more like “OH FUCK!!”. (Actually, may not have even had the OH part, and maybe the other part was repeated a few times too.)

What you don’t realise is that as a very skeptical scientific type, I could never let myself regress to a primitive state and believe dumb stuff. I ridicule idiots who make claims without offering, or even hoping to offer, proof.

Mary was a virgin? Sure buddy. God created everything, including laying down fossils to mess with our faith? Yup, he did that too. Floats in clouds? Sure, why not, so does Zeus. Lake of fire for people that don’t waste their lives, and money, on the worship of him? Yep, he’d rather we do that than live our lives properly.

Trying explaining your ridiculous beliefs to a Japanese person. If they are polite, they’ll try very hard not to laugh at you. Since most Japanese haven’t been subjected to a Christian upbringing, they are in a pretty good position to assess it objectively.

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Oops, you nearly sneaked Charles Darwin through pparets. Naughty! There is zero evidence to suggest he died a devout Christian. He was fresh outta faith after his daughter died of what he believed to be a genetic condition. Stayed that way.

There was even a rumour floating around the internet that he recanted his evolutionary beliefs on his death-bed. Again, zero evidence, just a lie spread by the foolish.

Anyone who understands evolution can tell instantly this is a lie too. The only way to invalidate evolution is for a better, more accurate, theory to come along. Didn’t happen in Charles’ life. Still hasn’t. Why would he “recant”?

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Evolution is too elegant a theory to not be true.

Evolution is too elegant a theory to not be true.

Evolution just may be the hand of God.

Christians who adamantly insist that evolution does not exist are limiting their vision.

Yeah, I have never understood why both sides see the two as absolutely mutually exclusive.

It would all seems pretty seamless to me, if I were a believer that is.

Yeah, I have never understood why both sides see the two as absolutely mutually exclusive.

Because both sides are going on faith.

Opposing faith does not reason with each other.

Because both sides are going on faith.—Likwidshoe

An objective scientist requires very little faith. They’ll change their beliefs as information changes, therefore not faith.

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

Ah, another unenlightened! Let’s see AV’s list!:

Have you not heard of witch burning/drowning,

The idea of a supernatural influence is neither distinctly religious, not Christian. The most famous example that people use, The Salem Witch trial was about learned members of Salem using a few young girls false cry of “witchcraft”...used to get out of trouble...(think a medevil Tawana Brawley incident), to spook their neighbors and steal prime land that they wanted. Throughout history, various non-Christian cultures have blamed zombies, various Gods, vampires, etc for their troubles. This is not a problem that is Christian in nature.

inquisitions,

Addressed above, mainly the Spanish variety.

persecution of the Moors and the Jews (and other Christians even),

Well, pointing out the Christians harmed other Christians ALONE shows how silly this critique is

forced conversions,

Shrug. An excuse to conquer. Civilizations do that you know. The funny thing is, every society converted, without a single exception, was made better for it.

and one of the crusades which was a bunch of nuts following a duck (or some other bird)?

Absolute bull. Probably stolen off of a Monty Python movie.

An objective scientist requires very little faith. They’ll change their beliefs as information changes, therefore not faith.

One only has to look at the fields of climate change (we’re going to die of global warming...i mean cooling...i mean warming again!), embryonic stem cell research (20 years and still no breakthroughs, but this NEXT 100 million dollars will do it thank you), or many of the silly anti-Christian endevors taken over the past 50 years (such as trying to prove he walked on ice...not water) to realize this isn’t true. Scientists are just like everyone else. They go into the job with a bias that informs everything they do. Claiming that just because he puts on a white robe that he becomes objective is amazingly stupid.

And it shows more than a tad of bias on your side.

When we look at the “socialist paradise” that is Cuba, we must remember that a sizable share of the misery those people suffer is directly attributable to Che Guevara bringing Castro into power, and giving him many of the policies that have caused so much pain. The real symbol of Che should be the raft, to remind us of all those who have died on rafts in the ocean trying to escape the Cuban nightmare and get to freedom. And had he not been killed, begging for his life like a coward, he would’ve done the same thing again and again in countries all throughout Latin and South America. His actions have inspired terrorists across a continent and caused countless deaths.

"Anarchist” Vegetarian - An objective scientist requires very little faith.

Ah ha! Your faith lies in your perceived objectivity. It is your belief of objectivity that requires a lot of faith.

And not just you. That wasn’t personal. It applies to all.

Likwidshoe: I never claimed to be an objective scientist. Objectivity is an honorable goal, though complete objectivity I believe to be unattainable.

But a scientist is likely to be more objective than someone who thinks faith is a good thing to have.

And how does my beliefs about objectivity require faith? Again, I’ll change my opinions if better information comes along, therefore not faith.

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

You have faith in duality, you have faith in “scientific” rules and precepts devised by others; you have faith that the material world is all there is; you have faith that your physical senses tell you everything, and you have faith that your assumed premises about everything are a sound basis for your logic.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.” —George Orwell

In the case of radical Islam’s war against the rest of civilization, that happens to be true; in the case of so-called “global warming”, it happens to be false.

If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

The crusades were a response to Islam’s war of conquest against Christian lands.
Once again, blame the victim.
The Whistler on March 3, 2008 at 06:34 am

So, in response they conquered Byzantium (a Christian nation, brutalized it’s inhabitants and hastened it’s fall to the Ottoman muslims. Great.