Oh, By The Way, They’re Voting In Iraq Again

• January 29, 2009

No thanks to Obama or the Democrats:

BAGHDAD — Thousands of soldiers, police officers, hospital patients and prisoners cast ballots on Wednesday as part of early voting in Iraq’s provincial elections.
At least one act of violence accompanied the voting. Two police officers guarding a polling center south of Kirkuk were killed by gunmen who fired at them from a passing car, according to an official from the Ministry of Interior who spoke on condition of anonymity. The gunmen escaped, the official said.
Overall, however, the voting appeared to go smoothly, Iraqi election officials said.
About 615,000 people, most of them employed by Iraq’s security forces, were eligible to vote Wednesday, three days before Saturday’s election. Government officials said the early balloting would help ensure that security forces would be on duty to protect polling stations on Saturday, when about 14 million more Iraqis are eligible to vote.
“The arrangements we are seeing today are a slap in the face to those who are betting that Iraqis will not go to the ballot box because they are despairing,” Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki said in a speech on Wednesday.

We won in Iraq – thanks to the troops, their military leaders, General David Petraeus and President Bush – but the people who won the war aren’t ever going to get their due, because it’s politically inconvenient for the Democrats.
Meanwhile, Iraqis will go on enjoying their representative government and not being raped and tortured and murdered by Saddam and his cruel thugs.

Tags: Domestic Issues, Politics, War On Terror

http://Array Hannitized

Bat,

I can’t believe you used the word “fair”…..even if you quickly caught yourself. Ha!

Greg,

I know that the argument against the draft was that there would be people serving who you might not be able to rely on as you would a volunteer. I can appreciate that concern.

But they way I look at it is that we won WWII with the draft. And even though Americans were different then, I believe that when you are in a fight, things change.

But, what do I know? I am just a civilian. I have met too many good men…and boys….who have served too many tours, as far as I am concerned. My ex girlfriends brother served 5 tours in Marines. That just isn’t right for his family to have to endure that and even though none of the servicemen would complain about it. I felt in my heart that it wasn’t right.

Bat was also accurate in stating that part of my arguing for the draft, on-line, was to show that some Republicans would not institute it for political reasons. I believe that to be true, aside from the political advantages of arguing that point.
carrick

A Citizen, as I understand the sources of the intel, there were two main reasons to believe Saddam had stockpiles of WMD.

The first was the “missing WMD” from the end of the first Gulf War. It has always been my take that this missing WMD never existed (think Hitler “ghost armies”). I can expand on this if you want…

The second was unreliable Iraqi defectors, notably “Curveball”, who turned out to be a fake.

The third was the misreading of satellite photos and other surveillance data (for example, the so-called mobile labs I think are now generally accepted as being due to erroneous interpretation by the intel officers).

I don’t blame GWB for this, the intel was in place and accepted by the time he took office. He simply trusted the intel services to do their jobs, and I think they failed. I think Hillary was relying on the same intel in her speech.

In terms of a WMD research program, I think that existed but was in stasis, because Saddam was trying to get out from under the UN sanctions.
carrick

Jack:

The problem is that you don’t blame GWB for anything.

Better keep that day job. The Karnac mind-reading gig is going to be pretty short term, it looks.

I blame Bush for plenty, and am glad he is out of office.

Robert108:

There were 650 tons of yellowcake, and that was just one.

Jack argues the sky isn’t blue again:

I know that you believe that, Robert. We liberals prefer to deal with facts that can be verified with evidence.

The yellowcake stockpiles were real. They weren’t the WMD people were talking about, and are low enough grade they wouldn’t qualify as WMD without considerable refining.

Separate issue of course.

Jack denies facts that don’t fit, then attacks people who accept facts whether they fit or not. Classic liberal head-up-ass behavior.
Hannitized

Friend of USA:

Liberals never ever mention this fact about Clinton.
As a matter of fact they wish we would all forget it.

You mean liberals like Salon, who ripped on Clinton for the bombing???? What?

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/09/23news.html

On Aug. 20, President Clinton personally ordered the leveling of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant on the outskirts of Khartoum. More or less simultaneously, another flight of cruise missiles was dropped on various parts of Afghanistan and also — who’s counting? — Pakistan, in an apparent effort to impress the vile Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden, of course, hopes to bring a “judgmental” monotheism of his own to bear on these United States, and is thus in some peoples’ minds a sort of Arab version of Ken Starr.

And he was trying to kill Osama Bin Laden.
carrick

H:

What information are you using to jump to that conclusion? I supported the surge and wanted to see a draft.

Never saw you support the surge, but that’s interesting.

I’m pretty sure that the current inequities in Iraq are many orders of magnitude smaller than under Saddam. Life isn’t fair, and things will never be perfect.

In the mean time, a fair number of the Iraqis that fled after the war did so because they feared persecution. Being ex-Ba’athists, can anybody figure out why that might be?
Hannitized

Liberals never ever mention this fact about Clinton.
As a matter of fact they wish we would all forget it.

And…

]Noam Chomsky has argued that the bombing of Al-Shifa was a horrendous crime committed by the United States Government that probably resulted in the deaths of several hundreds of thousands of Sudanese people from treatable diseases such as malaria and tuberculosis because they were deprived of medicines manufactured at the plant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory

The bombing of the al-Shifa factory resurfaced in the news in April, 2006, due to the firing of former CIA analyst Mary O’Neil McCarthy. McCarthy was against the bombing of the factory in 1998, and had written a formal letter of protest to President Clinton. According to former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, she had voiced doubts that the factory had ties to al Qaeda or was producing chemical weapons. The New York Times reported: “In the case of the Al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, her concerns may have been well-founded.

Delusions……..Friend…..delusions.
Onslaught

I have always hoped for success in Iraq.

While rooting for the Enemies of the U.S. is, technically. hoping for success in Iraq, I don’t really think that qualifies. IMO.
carrick

A Citizen:

So it was Clinton’s intel??

Well he relied on it for his 1998 speech.

Does he own it?

/shrugs
Bat One

Ask the 1 million homeless refugees streaming out of Iraq if we “won.”

Weren’t they covered in the Zogby poll already?
carrick

Jack:

Like all conservatives, you think that calling someone names wins you the argument.

More hypocrisy from Jack, who never fails to insult when a simple comment would do.

I wasn’t calling you a “name” however.

It is quite obvious that you are a reactionary nut.
Hannitized

Rob says:

Meanwhile, Iraqis will go on enjoying their representative government and not being raped and tortured and murdered by Saddam and his cruel thugs.

News reports say:

After the invasion of Iraq, the US government claimed that women there had ‘new rights and new hopes’. In fact their lives have become immeasurably worse, with rapes, burnings and murders now a daily occurrence. By Mark Lattimer

They lie in the Sulaimaniyah hospital morgue in Iraqi Kurdistan, set out on white-tiled slabs. A few have been shot or strangled, some beaten to death, but most have been burned. One girl, a lock of hair falling across her half-closed eyes, could almost be on the point of falling asleep. Burns have stretched the skin on another young woman’s face into a fixed look of surprise.

These women are not casualties of battle. In fact, the cause of death is generally recorded as “accidental”, although their bodies often lie unclaimed by their families.

“It is getting worse, especially the burnings,” says Khanim Rahim Latif, the manager of Asuda, an Iraqi organisation based in Kurdistan that works to combat violence against women. “Just here in Sulaimaniyah, there were 400 cases of the burning of women last year.” Lack of electricity means that every house has a plentiful supply of oil, and she accepts that some cases may be accidents. But the nature and scale of the injuries suggest that most were deliberate, she says, handing me the morgue photographs of one young woman after another. Many of the bodies bear the unmistakable signs of having been subjected to intense heat.

“In many cases the woman is accused of adultery, or of a relationship before she is married, or the marriage is not sanctioned by the family,” Khanim says. Her husband, brother or another relative will kill her to restore their “honour”. “If he is poor the man might be arrested; if he is important, he won’t be. And in most cases, it is hidden. The body might be dumped miles away and when it is found the family says, ‘We don’t have a daughter.’” In other cases, disputes over such murders are resolved between families or tribes by the payment of a forfeit, or the gift of another woman. “The authorities say such agreements are necessary for social stability, to prevent revenge killings,” says Khanim.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/13/gender.iraq
http://bopl.samharris.us/ Paul

If we won, can we leave now please? I could understand, perhaps, the idea that we’re winning, and hence we need to stay, but if we’ve won, we’ve won. Floodlights off, flags pulled, time to go home.
carrick

For what it’s worth, I think that Noam Chomsky is an extremely gifted linquistic but that’s where my praise of him ends.

I have a couple of his books, and I’m really sorry to say I find them to be just dreck.

We don’t need a draft. In the long run (factoring in the cost of human lives) would be more expensive than simply attracting more soldiers with better pay.

We have an extremely elite fighting force now. I know some on the left think this is a bad thing (they worry about the military getting out of control), but I see that as a much lower risk than the very real threat posed to us by some of our enemies.
robert108

Carrick: There were 650 tons of yellowcake, and that was just one.
Hannitized

Never saw you support the surge, but that’s interesting.

I’m pretty sure that the current inequities in Iraq are many orders of magnitude smaller than under Saddam. Life isn’t fair, and things will never be perfect.

It is true, this is the only link I could find showing support in July of last year….but still.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/here_comes_obamas_flip_flop_on_iraq/#c307367

Even before the word “surge” became so popular, I argued for more troops and a draft. I used to debate on a site called FreeSpeech and it was all there, the evidence. But he changed his site and deleted his data.

I also argued on the radio here locally that there should be a draft, but my Conservative counterparts argued against it. Fred Hemmings, a Republican Senator in Hawaii and surfing legend and I wrestled many a day on the phone on his radio show about the draft and surge.

I word too closely with the military to look them in the eye and pretend that serving 3-4 tours was just. It wasn’t and neither was pulling out too early.
Jack

There were 650 tons of yellowcake, and that was just one.

I know that you believe that, Robert. We liberals prefer to deal with facts that can be verified with evidence.

That’s why the conservative movement is such a dismal failure.
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

Anybody notice that the thread was about democracy in Iraq? Anybody on the Left want to concede that democracy is a good thing?
Jack

Jack, given how you obviously are a reactionary nut blah blah blah

Like all conservatives, you think that calling someone names wins you the argument.

That’s just one reason why conservatives always FAIL.
http://northerngleaner.blogspot.com/ Gene

Jack

Ask the 1 million homeless refugees streaming out of Iraq if we “won.”

Except for the half million headed back home.

That’s what happens after a war is won.

And the people that died. That’s what happens when a war was fought.
Jack

A:

Ask the 1 million homeless refugees streaming out of Iraq if we “won.”

Ask the 50,000 dead civilians if we “won.”

Ask the families who have been liberated from their homes, all their possessions, their uncle, their father, and their sister. Ask them if we “won.”

90% of Iraq has no access to clean water and/or electricity. Is that your idea of “winning?”

“We won in Iraq” is a simple theme for a simple mind. And no one is more simple-minded than a conservative.

And like 90% of what you believe—and conservatives never “know” things, they only “believe” things—it’s bullshit.
http://norseberserker.blogspot.com/ Rugby Reader

There is not a damn thing we “won” in Iraq.

Been there, done that. Ain’t going back.
Jack

Yes, we screwed up, no doubt. But we are rebuilding Iraq. No WMD’s found, granted.

Conservatives don’t believe in holding people accountable for their actions.

It’s become plainly obvious that the Bush regime was riddled with crooks and incompetents. But that’s A-OK with conservatives!
Jack

I don’t blame GWB for this, the intel was in place and accepted by the time he took office

The problem is that you don’t blame GWB for anything. For eight years he presided over the most incompetent and corrupt regime in American history…but just don’t blame him for anything!

As always, conservatives fear accountablity.
Hannitized

While rooting for the Enemies of the U.S. is, technically. hoping for success in Iraq,

What information are you using to jump to that conclusion? I supported the surge and wanted to see a draft.
Bat One

We liberals prefer to deal with facts that can be verified with evidence.

Jack

While I have no intention of hijacking this thread, I would like to know how you liberals can support a massive orgy of Keynesian deficit spending under the guise of “economic recovery” when none of you seems able to cite a single instance, here or abroad, when this policy was successful? Where are the “facts” to back up the contention that all this deficit spending will jump start the economy and put all those laid off folks back to work. Where are your facts, Jack?!
robert108

There is not a damn thing we “won” in Iraq.

None is so blind as he who will not see.
sayanything-4625

They also found 14 barrels of “pesticide” (in an ammo dump), several missles with empty chemical warheads, empty chemical mortar shell and some artillery shells or two. Not enough for a credible stockpile I will admit but something out of the ordinary.
Jack

Colin Powell made quite a convincing presentation at the U.N. with photo’s, audio tapes and documentation.

Uh…you DO realize that his entire presentation was a calculated lie, right?

If not….well, what fucking rock have you been hiding under?
sayanything-4625

Wow, that’s great! I would like to hear your thoughts on the draft and why you want one. Not to flame you just to hear your thoughts.

I don’t like the draft myself, when I was in I enjoyed knowing that the guy to my right and left were professionals and had volunteered but I could see how men of goodwill could disagree.
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

News reports say:

News reports, plural? You have one story from 2007! Nothing more recent?
http://bopl.samharris.us/ Paul

Rodney – Indeed we do, and I think that’s an excellent idea for Iraq, too, if the Iraqis want us there. As a pure guess I’d say there are about 1% of the troops in each of those countries that were originally fighting there (or fighting against those countries directly). So that’s about 1,700 – let’s call it 2,000 – personnel we should leave behind. I’m all for that.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

The intelligentsia left Iraq years ago. Then there’s the tens of thousands dead and the tens of thousands maimed who won’t be showing up at the polls.

Sort of like holding a bake sale at ground zero on 9/12.
Hannitized

I didn’t look that hard. Here is another of Iraqi rape victim of Iraq’s Interior Ministry.

from the November 24, 2008 edition
AMMAN, JORDAN – As though recoiling from her own memories, Khalida shrank deeper into her faded armchair with each sentence she told: of how gunmen apparently working for Iraq’s Interior Ministry kidnapped her, beat and raped her; of how they discarded her on a Baghdad sidewalk.

Rape is a common weapon of any war; no one knows how many Iraqi women have been raped since the war began in 2003. Most crimes against women “are not reported because of stigma, fear of retaliation, or lack of confidence in the police,” MADRE, an international women’s rights group, wrote in its 2007 report about violence against women in Iraq. Some women, like Khalida, are raped by Iraqi security forces. A 2005 report published by the Iraqi National Association for Human Rights found that women held in Interior Ministry detention centers endure “systematic rape by the investigators.”

A handful of organizations are working to help rape victims in Iraq. MADRE, together with the Organization of Women’s Freedom in Iraq, operates several shelters and safe houses in Baghdad for Iraqi rape victims, where the women have access to healthcare and counseling.

But militias often target women’s rights advocates in Iraq, so these facilities are “a clandestine network,” operated by “mostly somebody who at a great risk to themselves has opened a room for these victims,” says Yifat Susskind, MADRE’s communications director. The shelters have helped several thousand Iraqi women since 2003. Most rape victims learn about the shelters from other women.

Documenting sexual assault in Iraq by international researchers remains complicated because of widespread violence. “There’s been a security issue, so we haven’t been able to get people on the ground to look at the issue for a long time,” says Marianne Mollmann, who leads women’s rights advocacy at the New York-based Human Rights Watch, which published its last report about rape in Iraq in 2003.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1124/p07s01-wome.html
Mickey

Typical lefty envy of success. What a pair of dildos you two make. Sorry excuses.

People died in the American Revolution also.

You both, (dino and hannatize) hate America.
sayanything-4625

Where are your facts, Jack?!

He doesn’t care about facts after I used the CBO to school his ass he never showed up in the thread again. Facts are his garlic.
sayanything-4625

Bat was also accurate in stating that part of my arguing for the draft, on-line, was to show that some Republicans would not institute it for political reasons. I believe that to be true, aside from the political advantages of arguing that point

I, respectfully and not as a flame point out three things:

1) The draft has been voted on twice now and voted down twice by both Democrats and Republicans.

2) WWII casualties were terrible because untrained draftees were fed into a meat grinder. Casualty ratio’s were 1 killed for every two wounded. The current casualty ratio is 1 killed for every 6.9 wounded. Part of that can be chalked up to medical advances but part of the reason is the troops are much better trained. (The war isn’t WWII either)

3) Historically, draftee armies are often used as cannon fodder. Things do change but it is often not for the good. Troops that experience high casualties often become quite ruthless and countries that have high casualties often fight, dirty?, as a result.

Thank you for sharing your reasons. I can respect them.

I do agree that my friends that have been on three and now four tours could use a break.
Tim

From http://www.portlandonline.com/police/crimestats/index.cfm there have been 182 reported rapes within the city of Portland. I wonder how that compares to Iraq on a per capita basis?
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

There is not a damn thing we “won” in Iraq.

None is so blind as he who will not see.

r1008: I think the operative word in Ruh-roh Reader’s comment is “we”.

He excludes himself rightly from the U.S.’s success.
Onslaught

What information are you using to jump to that conclusion? I supported the surge and wanted to see a draft.

Well, I guess that’s just the down side of being part of a heard.

It’s difficult to tell one Irrational BDS jackass from all the rest, especially when your heard includes the likes of E, RBB, and DINO as well as a whole host of notable forgettables.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus Last Best Hope

50k die EVERY YEAR on our highways…the libs never say boo

50 million Muslims freed from Sadamn’s & Taliban’s HOUSE OF HORRORS and libs screech about the cost of freedom

mental retards and small children have a better grasp of the world than do liberals
Hannitized

Greg,

Good points, and while I am not trying to dismiss them, no matter what slight negative statistics result from a draft, when the time arises when we are over stretching our military and having servicemen do 3-5 tours, I will always support the draft to relieve some of our men and women in uniform.

I think in this case, a draft was difficult due to the nature of the war being pre-emptive or preventative. Had it been different, I think it could be very likely we would see a draft.

Carrick,

I understand your argument, but do you think that in this war we lost possibly too many elite fighting forces? Or do you think no matter how the military was spread out, in Afghanistan only elite forces would be called upon anyway?

In Iraq, I think we lost a lot of well trained men. But a political firestorm could have erupted if we had a draft, and more lost lives, so I do see a political argument that could be made against.
http://bopl.samharris.us/ Paul

Friend of USA – I don’t know whether the two Presidents were liars or just fooled. I do think there’s a difference, though, between bombing a factory and invading a country. If they lied then compared to Bush, Clinton told a slight untruth. And if they were fooled by faulty intelligence, well I guess one of them was a bigger fool.

Actually I’d guess that in Bush’s case neither is true; I think he saw what he wanted to see, so if he fooled anyone it was himself. I don’t think that makes him either a liar or a victim. I’ve no idea if the same is true of Clinton.
http://www.dartemis.net/blog/ sayanything-42

Paul,

We most certainly won against both Germany and Japan, yet loh these 55 years later we still have forces in both.
Bat One

In fairness (Damn, I hate that word!) I recall a number of discussions last year and before in which H voiced support for both the “Surge” and the re-institution of a draft. His support for the Surge included both the additional troops and counter-insurgency strategy of General Petraeus. The draft suggestion was more whimsical mischief than a justified military necessity.
sayanything-4625

Hannitized,

Fair enough.
carrick

Jack:

Uh…you DO realize that his entire presentation was a calculated lie, right?

Our paranoid delusional lectures us about reality again.

Classic.
carrick

LOL, cyer point there AC.
Friend of USA

When Clinton was President he sent a missile on a “suspicious plant” in Iraq and destroyed it, then we learned that it was a place where they were producing aspirin or something – not a weapons factory.

oops…

The intelligence was faulty.

Liberals never ever mention this fact about Clinton.
As a matter of fact they wish we would all forget it.

But when it was Bush who made a mistake due to same type of faulty intelligence, then liberals shift goal posts and lying trough their teeth put all the blame on Bush.

It is impossible to have serious discussions with the average liberal because they make up rules as they go along.
Hannitized

Typical lefty envy of success.

I have always hoped for success in Iraq.

My response was required because Rob tried to overreach in his efforts to shadowbox his political opponents.

There maybe a lot to be happier about, but no need to flat out lie about the rape allegation. Maybe he didn’t lie, maybe he just didn’t realize women were still being raped by goons who work for the government of Iraq.
Mickey

Jack

Iran fought a war that resulted in the death of over a million people, many of them children, used as fodder. The choice to use children as land mine detectors was not the result of their aversion to America or Israel.

In Algeria, the GIA did not rape and dismember thousands of children because of America or Israel.

Saddam did not invade Kuwait, or threaten Saudi Arabia because of America or Israel.

Poison gas was used in Yemen, in the 1960′s. The perpetrator? Our friends, the Egyptians.

You cannot negotiate with people who are broken.

What were once acknowledged as universal laws, no longer exist in the Arab world. What was once assumed to be understood as universal expressions of civilized behavior are no longer a reality in the Arab world.

Blame the Iraqi war on the rightfull source, that being Saddam.
Friend of USA

Damn that Bush!!!

Look what he’s done;

he deprived a people the privilege of being ruled by a cruel dictator !!!11!!1!!111!

Don’t you hate with when someone comes and gives you liberty, democracy and a chance at the pursuit of happiness?

Impeach Bush now!!!!11!1!!!!11!!!

( it is fun to act like a liberal but too much of it makes me dizzy. you know with the reduced flow of blood to my brain and all…)
carrick

A Citizen, apropos of nothing, I think the intel was wrong on the WMD.
A Citizen

There is not a damn thing we “won” in Iraq.

Didn’t we win freedom for the Iraqi people who can now, in the least vote for what they want?
Bat One

Anybody on the Left want to concede that democracy is a good thing?

Democrats don’t like democracy very much. They’re more comfortable with autocrats and personality cults. They will endorse actual democracy only if its rigged to their advantage (c.f. Jimmy Carter, ACORN, etc.).
Friend of USA

Hannitized,

Either you agree with this,

” Clinton lied, people died exactly as Bush did”

or you agree with this,

” Bush but was simply provided with the same type of faulty intelligence Clinton was.
Bush did not lie and no one died because of any lies because there were no lies only faulty intelligence.”

It is really simple, they are both liars and people died because of their lies, OR they both were victims of faulty intelligence and neither of them lied.

Pick one.
carrick

Jack, given how you obviously are a reactionary nut, you should be the last person lecturing people on what they “know”.

What a wonderful, completely fucked up stimulus package your brilliant party has put together by the way.

It’s like the kindergarten class got a turn at writing legislation.
http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

We won a crucial crack in the facade of Islamic Supremacism. Democracy invigorates the human who has been under tyranny. It calls to their natural rebelliousness and ennui towards the everyday.

Eventually over decades or centuries of too much indolence they similarly gravitate towards tyranny and only those with the capacity to not become inured will resist.

Moral equivocationists will then say based on this that either one is equally desirable by humans but their ignore that humans are capable of qualification and analysis with respect to their needs and their benefits and so forth.

Which is preferable? Tyranny or freedom?

Islamic Supremacism is no different than Nazism. Both like other such schismatic divisive movements must ultimately more and more center on the human paranoia, and continuously cleave people and groups from an ever shrinking core, and become ever more restrictive and separationist, despite the existence of others in the world whose reaction to that must be, yet will not be properly taken into account.

Their enemies will close in, they will become ever more frightful as their distrust is justified after the fact by the resultant reactions to their actions.

The result is chaos and conflict and good for who?

People who claim to love the Iraqis, Arabs, and Muslims would more often than not leave them to this sad inevitability and do so with callous arrogance and estrangement from human kindness.

Iraq is better off with a glimpse of freedom of self-determination ongoing ever changing as we have it, then another few centuries under Pan Arabists or Islamic Supremacists, both of whom detest individual freedom, and the human spirit and must do so as to embrace them would be antithetical to their aims of aggrandizement.
sayanything-2483

Sort of like holding a bake sale at ground zero on 9/12.

You can NOW have your bake sale at Ground Zero. Make sure you get a permit first.
sayanything-2483

JACK: Just a quick follow up. I said that no WMD’s were found, that doeasn’t mean they weren’t there. Even Hillary knew they were there.
Hillary Clinton: Saddam Has WMD, Terrorist Ties (Video)

Senator Hillary Clinton’s (Democrat, New York) address to the US Senate while voting YES to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq:

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, co More..mfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members…

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.

This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction.”

Hillary Clinton: Saddam Has WMD, Terrorist Ties
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eab_1201152136
sayanything-2483

Ask the 1 million homeless refugees streaming out of Iraq if we “won.”

Ask the 50,000 dead civilians if we “won.”

The refugees will return. Ask 1.5 MILLION civilians that Saadam killed.
Yes, we screwed up, no doubt. But we are rebuilding Iraq. No WMD’s found, granted. One ruthless dictator gone, yes.
sayanything-2483

I don’t blame GWB for this, the intel was in place and accepted by the time he took office

The problem is that you don’t blame GWB for anything. For eight years he presided over the most incompetent and corrupt regime in American history…but just don’t blame him for anything!

As always, conservatives fear accountablity.
Jack on January 29, 2009 at 03:31 pm

Well he relied on it for his 1998 speech.

Does he own it?

/shrugs

Well Jack, the all knowing said it was already in place when Bush took office, so I guess CLINTON owns it!!
sayanything-2483

A Citizen, apropos of nothing, I think the intel was wrong on the WMD.

He obviously had them, he used them on his own people. Colin Powell made quite a convincing presentation at the U.N. with photo’s, audio tapes and documentation. I’m not 100% sure, but I think the intel came from several sources in the region.
sayanything-2483

If not….well, what fucking rock have you been hiding under?

Great arguments, I appreciate your input. I guess the Kurds were gassed after all.
sayanything-2483

I don’t blame GWB for this, the intel was in place and accepted by the time he took office

So it was Clinton’s intel??

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