Say Anything Blog

Ordered myself a copy yesterday.

What the war on terror is really about…part two

BAGHDAD—The U.S. agency in charge of $1.4 billion in reconstruction money in Iraq used an accounting shell game to hide cost overruns on its projects in Iraq and knowingly withheld information on schedule delays from Congress, a federal audit has found.

A government agency misused taxpayer dollars.  Shocking.

And, of course, realityboob thinks this is a reason to not fight terrorists.

Right.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

With all due respect Rube, please show me where I have ever written that we should not fight terrorist.

Your mocking of the war on terror indicates that you aren’t in favor of fighting terrorists.

To this you’ll reply that the war in Iraq is not a part of the war on terror, to which I’ll respond that you’re a misguided fool who can’t see beyond the end of his own partisan nose.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rube…that’s a nice one realityboob.  I am a rube.  Backwoods, redneck, North Dakota rube.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

The terrorist savages threaten to wipe us out, and rbb is whining about misspending of taxpayer money.  All Dem admins have misspent taxpayer money.  Get on your soapbox about that, rbb!  At least deal with the murdering terrorists.  Be a man!

Realityboob is worried about misspending on defense, but do you think we could get him to criticize the $3 billion/day spending on MEdicare, Medicaid and Social Security?  Spending that is growing at about 8% annually?  Spending that is unsustainable and will eventually drag this country down?

Oh no, he’s find with that sort of waste of tax payer dollars.  Which isn’t to suggest that misappropriating defense funds is a good thing.  It isn’t, but let’s keep some perspective.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Yeah, like the “War On Poverty” started by LBJ(the peace candidate).  It’s trillions and counting, and no discernable reduction in poverty.  Nice cherry-picking, rbb.  He’s not partisan; oh, no!

Realityboob is worried about misspending on defense, but do you think we could get him to criticize the $3 billion/day spending on MEdicare, Medicaid and Social Security? Spending that is growing at about 8% annually? Spending that is unsustainable and will eventually drag this country down?

Oh no, he’s find [sic] with that sort of waste of tax payer dollars.

Really?  Where did he say that?  Could you please cite the post or article where he said, “I’m fine with wasting money in the following ways…” 

The reality is that you are using what’s called a strawman argument.  Again, Rob, you’re way smarter than to fall back on the debate tactics of middle schoolers and politicians.

robert108 is also guilty of the same tactics.  Saying that because rbb doesn’t want to spend money in the War on Terror he somehow condones terrorism is a fraudulent statement.  (Likewise, claiming that because he supposedly doesn’t want to “deal with the murdering terrorists” he is somehow not a man is a middle school debate tactic.) 

Be reasonable.  There is not a sane person in the world who condones terrorism.  Conservatives, moderates, liberals, Republicans, Democrats, Christians, Jews, Muslims: in general, they don’t believe in terrorism. 

What people object to is sending off our greatest heroes (U.S. Troops) to fight a war that leads to us being the most hated nation in the world.  What people object to is the lack of a preponderance of evidence for such a war.  What people object to are the no-bid contracts that lead to the shell-games that rbb mentions above.  What people object to is that we are being very selective of WHERE we fight this “War on Terror.” (Wouldn’t it make more sense for us to start with the terrorists who did the most damage?  Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

rbb’s objection is not to the War on Terror.  He objects to fraud and mis-spent money.  As a coincidence, the money is spent on a war he doesn’t believe in; that makes his argument no less valid.

Puppies, Kittens and Liberal Love,
bobocopy

bobocopy: You just don’t get it.  In your lust(?) to defend rbb, you omit the most important fact: He brought up his whine about Republican misspending on a thread about murdering terrorists.  Of all the replies he could have made, he chose to ignore the subject completely and to launch a completely irrelevant partisan attack.  Rob and I called him on his distractive shite, as we should have.  rbb is trying to distract attention from the obvious savagery and real threat of terrorism to attack a target more in his agenda.  Talk about straw man tactics!  RBB is the champ at that one, btw.

who was that masked bobo?

WOW, I see it really riles up the poodles when fair criticism of the “fiscally responsible” gop make the news. Especially if it is from a congressionally approved federally funded oversight commission.

Medicare

Richard S. Foster, the government’s chief analyst of Medicare costs who was threatened with firing last year if he disclosed too much information to Congress, said last night that he believes the White House participated in the decision to withhold analyses that Medicare legislation President Bush sought would be far more expensive than lawmakers knew.

DoD spending

The Department of Defense, already infamous for spending $640 for a toilet seat, once again finds itself under intense scrutiny, only this time because it couldn’t account for more than a trillion dollars in financial transactions, not to mention dozens of tanks, missiles and planes.

J. Paul Bremmer

WASHINGTON (CNN)—Nearly $9 billion of money spent on Iraqi reconstruction is unaccounted for because of inefficiencies and bad management, according to a watchdog report published Sunday.

An inspector general’s report said the U.S.-led administration that ran Iraq until June 2004 is unable to account for the funds.

bobocopy:  You see, rbb isn’t worried about misspending on defense.  He is trying to sell the leftie lie that the war on terror isn’t really about terrorists(they don’t really exist, in his leftie world), it’s about “war for oil” or “war profiteering”.  You see, he has to distract from this video, because it reveals the truth about terrorists. He doesn’t want you to see that, he wants you to look somewhere else, anywhere else but at the truth.  If you know the truth, he can no longer sell his partisan lies.

bobocopy: You see, rbb isn’t worried about misspending on defense.

Please cite a quote by rbb or provide further evidence.

He is trying to sell the leftie lie that the war on terror isn’t really about terrorists(they don’t really exist, in his leftie world),

As a leftie, I beg to differ.  I have no problem with a hypothetical War on Terror.  It is the methodology of this War on Terror with which I have a problem.

it’s about “war for oil” or “war profiteering”.

Do you not see how people could believe that those factors at least contributed to the war in Iraq?

I’m not saying they were the sole reason for the war, but do you think we invaded because of WMDs?  I won’t go so far as to say they don’t exist, but the evidence thus far suggests that at the time we invaded, our leaders were lying to us about how much evidence they had. 

Do you think we invaded because of Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda?  I’m sure you know this, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  The War on Terror and the the war in Iraq are competely separate entities. 

I will compeltely agree with you that I don’t think this thread was the place to bring up the misspending.  I will also agree that rbb was using a common and unfair debate tactic: changing the subject.

R108 reacts like a poodle on linoleum running for the door when the mail is delivered.
You and your ilk are fooling yourselves about this administrations capability to conduct foreign policy. They are failing miserably. Their policies are vulgar, disrespectful and day after day proven wrong.

And just where did I say any of the things you just dreamed up, r?

I will also agree that rbb was using a common and unfair debate tactic: changing the subject.

I agree with you.

“R108 reacts like a poodle on linoleum running for the door when the mail is delivered.”

Now, there’s a reply packed with substance.  Nice refutation, rbb!  Right up there with your usual stuff.  When you have nothing, attack the other guy on a personal level.(or at least make a feeble attempt)

“You and your ilk are fooling yourselves about this administrations capability to conduct foreign policy. They are failing miserably. Their policies are vulgar, disrespectful and day after day proven wrong.”

Speaking of dreaming things up…  What you really hate about today’s reality(and the reason you try to distract from it) is that we are succeeding, which protects your disloyal butt as well.  Your ability to spew your lies on this blog comes from innumerable patriots shedding their blood for your right to speak out your ideas.  Try saying that about the administration in Iran, or Venezuela, or on the Daily Kos.  Just give it a try.

“I will also agree that rbb was using a common and unfair debate tactic: changing the subject.”

“I agree with you.”

A sliver of honesty from you, rbb.  Congratulations!  That was my entire point in the first place.

Great!  Now we can all go back to holding hands, being friends and talking about our feelings.

Here’s kitten site for you:

Very cute!

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/

bobocopy: The last time I held hands with a guy was on a battlefield, and here’s a hint: I wasn’t the one who was dying.  Don’t be so anxious about the handholding thing, if you get my drift.

You’re a literalist, aren’t you?  I don’t at all mean this as an insult; I just seel that maybe you suffer from something like Asperger’s syndrome that prevents you from understanding that not every word every person on the Internet says should be taken at face value all the time.  Sometimes, strangers lie.  Sometimes, people joke.  Sometimes, there is a different semantic meaning than literal meaning to the words people use.

When I asked what made you so sure I was a dude, I wasn’t witholding the fact that I was a male.  I was simply making light of the Internet’s anonymity and the assumptions we make about the people we interact with.

When I said that I was a wishy-washy liberal, I wasn’t witholding the fact that I was a male.  I was simply making light of my fellow liberals with a light-hearted joke.

When I said we could all go back to being friends and holding hands, I wasn’t suggesting that people who hold hands should not be allowed to do so, nor was I suggesting that we should literally hold hands.  I was simply making light of the fact that this blog is rife with people hurling insults at one another, so to have a moment where people aren’t (angrily and anonymously) saying rude things to one another was a relief. 

To say that someone is scared of his masculinity because he doesn’t start every post with, “BY THE WAY I’M A MAN” is a bit of a stretch.  (And before you criticize, I’m using hyperbole here to illustrate a point; I’m not actually implying that you literally suggested I do that.)

(Absolutely all kidding aside: if you are truly a veteran, as you claim to be [I believe you], I wish you all the best.  There is not a greater hero in this country than a person who is willing to lay down his life to stand for what the country was founded on.  Sincerely, I salute you.)

Let’s not be angry.  I truly respect what you have to say.  I didn’t come here to insult you or your beliefs.  I came here for a real discussion and to deal in honest debate tactics.  So far that’s what I’ve gotten, today.  If it’s all the same to you, I’d really rather not sling personal insults or call into question the masculinity of others.  Sound good?

bobocopy: Since I have done none of the things you mentioned, I agree.  RBB came out with his usual threadjack away from the real subject, and I called him on it.  You accused me and Rob of using straw man arguments, when in fact we were just pointing out rbb’s egregious change of subject, which is a usual tactic by him. 
As far as being “a literalist”, if you mean that I say what I mean and I mean what I say, that is absolutely true.  I take that as a compliment, not as a mental illness(if you want to be so polite, why the smear?). 
Precisely due to the anonymity of blogs, I find it much more efficient to say what I say, and take others at their word.  An occasional winky face does break things up a bit, and I am guilty of the occasional humorous remark with those who I already know, but I am not obligated to interpret your remarks, for any reason.  Whether you realize it or not, that is asking me to take care of you, and that’s not my job.  On this blog, we stand or fall by our words, and the burden of credibility is on the commenter, not everyone else.  It’s just about being honest, or dishonest, as is the case with some commenters.
Whether you are a man or a woman is irrelevant to me.  I only care about your ideas.  This is written text, after all.

bobocopy: As far as levity is concerned, I did give you the kitten link, didn’t I?  You did mention kittens and puppies, or something like that, didn’t you?

Yeah, that kitten link is one of my favorites.  Great find.  I just finished showing it to my wife.

Just so you know, I really didn’t mean to insult you at all.  I don’t consider a mental illness to be the fault of the person suffering from it, and most of the people I’ve met with Asperger’s (my two brothers, plus many others) are very literal-minded.  I give you kudos for saying exactly what you mean, and I apologize for offending you.

You say:

but I am not obligated to interpret your remarks, for any reason.

Begging to differ.  By the Rules of Conversation (part of the set of rules debate is built on), you really are required to attempt to interpret the semantic meaning of what I say.  If I’m being unreasonable (it happens very often) and I say you’ve ludicrously misinterpreted what I’ve said, then we have a miscommunication.  If you haven’t even tried to look at the semantic meaning of what I’ve said, you’re at fault.  If I say something ridiculous or hard to interpret, I’m completely at fault.  So, if you have a hard time interpreting what I say (I wander a lot and mis-use parenthetical phrases [like this]), you have the right to ask, and I don’t get to treat you poorly for trying to interpret what I’m saying.  Rules of Conversation, yo.

Whether you realize it or not, that is asking me to take care of you, and that’s not my job.

And so we approach the precipice of the slippery slope.  Asking you to at least try to interpret meaning in what I say before you criticize my words is not unreasonable. 

Ex: I’m from MN.  Out here, people say, “Will you borrow me a dollar?” when they mean, “Will you lend me a dollar.”  It would be ridiculous if every time I heard someone ask me to “borrow” them something, I assumed they wanted to borrow something from me.  Having a real context for the mis-use, I could ask them what they really meant or I could infer that their semantic meaning was that they wanted me to lend them a dollar.

Good retort, on your part.  I hope this helps us better understand one another.

bobocopy: So far, we haven’t had any semantic misunderstandings.  You seem to be a bit of a “literalist” yourself, btw.  To my way of thinking, we have had differences in our way of thinking, not semantic differences at all.  To me, it seems disingenuous to imply that someone is suffering from a mental illness because they speak the truth as they know it, and I wonder what you were trying to accomplish by your statement.  I don’t use any such debate tactics, and won’t, no matter what ones you might use.  By trying to label me so, you distracted from giving a substantive response, which is very poor debate, unless you don’t have a substantive response; then it’s understandable.  I run into this tactic from lefties all the time.  They try to substitute smear and personal attack for substantive argument.  If you differ with me on the facts of any matter, please say so, but personal attacks will avail you nothing with me.

No, I won’t loan you a dollar, no matter how you ask me.

Powerful video!  I sent on to my peers at Move America Forward so this can be shared with our member/supporter base.

Thank you very much for posting this.

“realitybased"bob spits, What the war on terror is really about…part two

It’s “really about” fraud? Did you miss the teams of Muslims who blow themselves up in public?

WOW, I see it really riles up the poodles when fair criticism of the “fiscally responsible” gop make the news.

Don’t be an idiot. What we “poodles” object to is the moonbat position that this war is about fraud.

You and your ilk are fooling yourselves about this administrations capability to conduct foreign policy. They are failing miserably. Their policies are vulgar, disrespectful and day after day proven wrong.

Then make an argument for once.

bobocopy says, What people object to is sending off our greatest heroes (U.S. Troops) to fight a war that leads to us being the most hated nation in the world. What people object to is the lack of a preponderance of evidence for such a war.

How much evidence do you need?

I’m not saying they were the sole reason for the war, but do you think we invaded because of WMDs?

That was one of many reasons.

I’m sure you know this, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

If true, who cares? It’s a war against terrorism and is not limited to a war against those who committed 9/11.

The War on Terror and the the war in Iraq are competely separate entities.

And now I know that you’re not an honest person. How could anybody look at Saddam Hussein and say that he wasn’t running a terrorist state? How could anybody look at Saddam Hussein and say that he wasn’t enabling and sponsoring terrorism?

Besides, if you read Maliki’s speech to our Congress, he connects the dots between Saddam, 9/11 and world terrorism, as well as the war in Iraq.  A lot of us knew it from the beginning, but some are slower than others…

… Maliki’s … connects the dots between Saddam, 9/11 and world terrorism, as well as the war in Iraq. A lot of us knew it from the beginning, but some are slower than others…

We’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th.

President Bush

Maliki, just another moonbat bush hater.

Excellent video - should be hsown on television and NOT necessarily on cable.

rbb: Your own words, please!  Stop this cowardly use of mouthpieces.  You cherry-pick, and masquerade as giving real information, when all you do is selectively quote others to try to prop up your sagging agenda.

Great video, kinda shows what ruling by fear really is…..

Judge Awards Iraqi Assets to Families of Sept. 11 Victims by Robert Siegel (All Things Considered, May 7, 2003): http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1254725

Note: This allows you to listen to the original broadcast.

9-11 panel discovers Saddam-Osama link
Documents show Iraqi possibly plotted attacks on U.S.  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39061

In ‘99, Clarke saw
Iraq-al-Qaida link
But Bush critic told ‘60 Minutes’ Sunday there was ‘absolutely’ no evidence ‘ever’
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37704

http://www.geostrategy-direct.com/geostrategy-direct/wnd.html

Iraq-al-Qaida links go back decade
CIA reports show nearly 100 examples of cooperation

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/2395416?source=Evening%20Standard

Yossef Bodansky, author of “The High Cost of Peace,” says joint preparations by Hussein, Yasser Arafat and al-Qaida for a new wave of anti-U.S. terror began last spring. The model for the terrorism campaign is Arafat’s Black September Organization of the 1970s.

dalco: Thanks for the facts.

You can’t win those who dream to die in the war against America. You cant by any violent weapon. As more you fight them, as more hatred you get.
The only way to peace goes through disarmed communication. America needs to stop any military interference in the world, and we also need volunteers who will want to go to Muslim world and talk to their people. Volunteers, who will be same ready to die, as THEY, but without any weapon in their hands.  Many of them will die. But their words will be heard and respected. This is the only way to change the terrorist ideology. There is no way to change it by weapon. May be USA government must redirect all finances, which go now to the war, to the families of those volunteers who dare to go to Muslim countries and talk about peace and love with bare hands and no body-guards.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003911

(WALL STREET JOURNAL)

REVIEW & OUTLOOK

The New Ground Zero
What’s that about no link between Saddam and terrorism?
Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

Nice setup for the terrorists.  Compliant victims.  Great propaganda.  The truth is, we can and will wipe them out, if they don’t relent.  Whether or not the terrorist nations survive another ten years is up to them.  They must grow up and join the rest of the world.  It’s either that or mass destruction.

Christ message (which by the way I question the depth, meaning, use, context and sincerity of your name):

You go first.

Christ Message said, You can’t win those who dream to die in the war against America. You cant by any violent weapon. As more you fight them, as more hatred you get.
The only way to peace goes through disarmed communication.

Hey, you sound just like one of those peace weenies right before WW2! You know the type, those people who were telling us that we couldn’t win a war against Hitler.

How well did the “talk about peace” work back then?

According to an ABC TV special at the time, we couldn’t beat Saddam in 1990, either.  According to them, our smart weapons wouldn’t work.  Nice.  See, lefties are fear-based, and Conservatives aren’t.  Lefties are anticipating a loss, Conservatives want to win.

According to an ABC TV special…

ABC you say? Osama and Hussein are connected says ABC in 1999.

You can’t win those who dream to die in the war against America.

Instead facilitate their immediate meeting with Allah.

You cant by any violent weapon. As more you fight them, as more hatred you get.

How can they hate us more? “Convert or die” they say. They have declared jihad. An Arabic phrase which means “My Struggle”. Sound familiar. Thats “Mein Kampf” in German. The leader of Iran denies the holocaust. He says the real holocaust is happening because Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. Lies. Say them loud enough, over and over, and people believe them. They teach their kids to kill in the name of God. There will be peace when THAT stops happening.

The only way to peace goes through disarmed communication.

I disagree. History is replete with examples of peace obtained through violent means. A moral and just nation does that only as a last resort. Look no farther back than how WW2 ended!

America needs to stop any military interference in the world,

I agree. Lets stop keeping the peace elsewhere. Lets also stop the grants and loans to other nations. In addition lets fix the trade deficit. Also let enforce the laws made by Congress, protect our borders and require the income tax system to be applied fairly to all, both citizens and foreign (undocumented) workers (AKA illegal immigrants). So are we done fantasizing yet? I feel good about all of these things JUST AS A START!

and we also need volunteers who will want to go to Muslim world and talk to their people. Volunteers, who will be same ready to die, as THEY, but without any weapon in their hands.

This is already happening. Where have you been?

Many of them will die.

Again, already happening: on Arabic TV with their throats cut. You know, journalists.

But their words will be heard and respected.

Where then is the Muslim outrage?

This is the only way to change the terrorist ideology.

I disagree. It hasn’t changed in centuries. 1000-man armies have moved into regions and converted or killed peoples since the time of Muhammed. Can you say genocide, boys and girls?

There is no way to change it by weapon.

I disagree. Indeed there may be no way to change it without better weapons (or better use of weapons) than we have so far.

May be USA government must redirect all finances, which go now to the war, to the families of those volunteers who dare to go to Muslim countries and talk about peace and love with bare hands and no body-guards.

Would you like that? In who’s name do you call for this? You call yourself Christ Message. But like the mullahs who call for suicide bombers methinks you find writing to inspire others to go forth easy and safe. And deceptively dangerous for those who listen.

You can’t win those who dream to die in the war against America. You cant by any violent weapon. As more you fight them, as more hatred you get.

That’s just great.  Tell that to the religious social workers who went in to Iraq with an “understanding” of the insurgents and terrorists and who ended up being taken hostage or killed themselves!

The naivitae of the anti-war movement is stunning and, unfortunately, also very dangerous to the well-being of the Western world.

Let us hope that this contingent never achieves political power in this country (via majority rule of Congress or winning the White House).

The Israeli’s tried a more pacifist approach by turning to Ehud Olmert who offered land for peace.  In return he saw attacks launched against Israel by Hezbollah and Hamas.

likwid: “According to an ABC TV special…”
Truthfully, I watched it(and laughed my ass off) sixteen years ago, and it could have been PBS, but it was a major network, with all the bells and whistles, earnestly doubting that our smart weapons wouldn’t work, so we really shouldn’t go to war against Saddam in 1990, because he was a really bad dude, his army was battle hardened after fighting Iran for eight years….blah, blah, blah.  We finished them off in less than a month, as I remember.  That was my main point.  You know how much I love “preliminary reports”.

Listen to this robert108. It’s just a small MP3 file I uploaded the other day.

That should be: “....earnestly doubting that our smart weapons would work…”

likwid: That was great!  I remember hearing all kinds of stuff like this during the nineties, but Clinton never acted on it.  It’s good to get the precise facts, as usual.  I have always known the lefties were lying about the “no connection” BS.

likwid: That was great!

Yeah? Well, I’m about to e-mail you something then. Check your inbox in a few.

Every American should at least see this and make up his mind. Its either then or us. I prefer us.

While this video was, to say the least, entertaining, it’s ALL a lie! 9-11 was an INSIDE JOB!!

WAKE UP!!!

Gotta order up a whole case of tinfoil for this guy!

Man, we got the nutcases here again!

How many times do the bogus conspiracies of people like TruthSayer have to be disproved?

On Flight 800 they tell us to watch a radar echo of a supposed missile, but wait the missile moves AWAY from the Flight 800 beacon on the radar screen before the plane exploded.  Well, NEVER MIND THE DETAILS they tell us!

Forget that not one single person involved in this coverup ever came forward to report the truth.  You know how easy it is to get thousands of people to toe the government line without speaking out, it happens well… never.

They say that there was no plane that hit the Pentagon.  Oh wait, thousands of people saw the plane hit the Pentagon.  Then we see video tapes showing it hit the Pentagon.

Oh well, NEVER MIND THOSE DETAILS EITHER!

You know, it’s not hard to see why certain members of Congress and the news media do not realize we are at war with jihadists when you realize that some of those individuals are probably not much different from the mentality of TruthSayer.  Gullibility apparently knows no bounds!

While this video was, to say the least, entertaining, it’s ALL a lie! 9-11 was an INSIDE JOB!!

How is it that out of 19 “alleged” terrorists, more than 5 have showed up ALIVE elsewhere in the world?

How is it that the “alleged” hijackers could fly airliners like professionals when they were novice pilots, at best?

How is it that some guys with “boxcutters” took over a plane piloted by experienced, “ex-military” pilots who could take care of themselves in a fight due to REAL wartime experiences?

WAKE UP AMERICA!

America is run by a small “elite” of power brokers that, by the way, Bush is one. His friggin family knows the Bin Laden family intimately. They have known each others families for over a decade (or more). They’ve invited them to their home in Kennybunkport, Maine.

Search out that info and you’ll find plenty of evidence on the NET to Substantiate this!

This “administration” had written “war plans” with Iraq for approximately a year before the “alleged” attack by Islamist radicals ocurred.

There’s an old saying people; “Believe none of what you see, and half of what you hear”!!

Governments are tyrannical by nature and OURS is NO DIFFERENT! Look at history and see MANY tyrannical, dictatorial governments who tried to make slaves of their populations. First they start with FEAR. Fear of some unseen “terrorists”. Then, when they have the people seeking more security and safety, they institute “gun bans”, “martial law”, and then the concentration camps follow.

Look at Hitler and Germany, for one EXCELLENT example of a dictator who used fear, conspiracies, deception, false flag operations, psy ops, etc.

Again, WAKE THE HELL UP before it’s too late and we, here in America, lose our beloved country to Global Cabals seeking world domination and a world government - aka “A New World Order”!!!

9-11 was an inside job!! It was “controlled demolition”, people . They had a crime scene there and what did they do to it even before an investigation started? They hired “CDI” to clean up and ship off the wreckage to foreign countries (like China for one) never to be seen again. By the way, ya know who “CDI” is? “Controlled Demolition Incorporated” folks!

Do your damn homework instead of simply believing all this crap about Jihad. Sure, the events continued an Islamic jihad (of sorts) but, Jihad was already underway. Look at The USS Cole. Look at flight 800. Remember the bombing of the marine barracks that killed many of our boys and Oklahoma’s A. P. Murrah building where it was said for months afterwards that there were middle eastern men involved but not caught! John Doe number 2??? He don’t look NOTHING like who they got, Terry Nichols!!!

WAKE UP!!!

Umm, are we supposed to be impressed that multiple users posted the exact same 9/11 conspiracy nonsense?

Loya and TruthSayer should get together at the next MoveOn.org house party.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists aren’t themselves adherents to the Islamic jihad cause of militant terrorism, seeking to undermine U.S. public support for confronting the threat posed by Islamic extremist terrorists.

Tell ya what, Lets send this guy to the Middle East and watch them cut his head off.

Hey, you sound just like one of those peace weenies right before WW2! You know the type, those people who were telling us that we couldn’t win a war against Hitler.
How well did the “talk about peace” work back then?
=========/
the victory against Hitler meant very sad thing: it taught Stalin to kill in order to achieve the desirable. To kill without doubts. Millions were killed during the repressions, and Im not so sure, whether Hitler would kill more if he would win.  Beside, millions of innocent Japanese citizens were killed in the name of this victory. Besides, this “victory” taught America to interfere to Belgrad, Irak, Vietnam, everywhere - what most likely would not happen, if Hitler would die by non-forced death as Stalin died. The victory on Hitler gave to the world the wrong idea that evil can win evil.
================================
R: Message, did you get to watch and listen to that video?  It basically follows my logic.  How to you change someone who is convinced you are Satin and must be killed, it is their duty to kill us?  You must kill them.
me: ‘You must kill them’ - means you must confirm their idea that you are Satin
R: Silly.  So from your perspective it is better to let them first kill you, then they believe they killed Satin.  Which is better?  Better for them to be dead.
R: Likewise, once they are dead, I don’t care anymore it the think Satin did it.  That in fact is the only way for them to realize the truth - when they are dead, they will find they do not go to heaven.  They will find Satin is really ready to welcome them
me: You never will kill ALL of them. But as more fiersfully you try to do that, as more hatred they will pass to their generation. Let say you killed ALMOST all of them, just a few people-refugees survived. They start a new colony, and after three generation will send nuclear-suicide bombers into suspecting nothing happy America, and it will be the last day for 90% americans, including your descendents.
R: You are wong.  Civilization killed barbarians throughout history several times.  The problem is the civilization has to come to grips with it, realize the problem, and deal with it.  If France, Russia, etc, want to push peace, is it because they really want it or because they are afraid the oil will stop.  Actually France and Russia are tainted because they want to get their investments into the oil.  But what do they suffer?  France now has had bombings, destruction, etc.  We all need to get together and stop those that would stop at nothing to kill anyone that is different than islam
me: Beside, after three generation American population will be almost 8-10 fold lower than now even without any suicide Muslim bombers because of the one-child-per-woman birthrate. While one survived soldier in Muslim world after American world attack will work day and night to conceive children from ALL survived women. And in 3 generation they will have 10^3 amount of new worriers per a male survivor.
me: Do not say “France”, “Russia’ and etc. Say “France government”, “Russian government” etc. Aims of the governments were and are - the power and luxury, nothing to do with the aims and true feelings of the people, setteling their countries.
R: k
R: But sometimes the governments need to take actions in spite of popular belief to protect the public from themselves.  Public wants no war = public gets annilated by many sneek bombs by terrorists.  Government does an unpopular war against public desire but then keeps the war overseas, the enemy pinned down, and public lives happily but never understands how the government protected them by doing this
me: Well, R, sorry to say, but we have SOOOOOOO many disagreements in SOOOOOOO many life aspects, that it makes it hard to continua discussion just through logic. Though I really like you and pity, that your ideology does not allow you neither accept any other point of view, neither even try to meet your opponent face to face to discuss it more often and in person - immediately when you feel that you MAY change your opinion, you say, that it is a Satan who tempts you and go away. I will not attempt to change yoru opinion through email, since I worked hard enough for 5 years to change somebody’s opinion through email and now I absolutely convinced, that without personal eye contact any email-discussion are the empty waste of time. You cannot convince anybody by email in anything, if his own life does not go through it.

the victory against Hitler meant very sad thing: it taught Stalin to kill in order to achieve the desirable.

Is this your underhanded way of admitting that the “talk about peace” idea didn’t work?

Beside, millions of innocent Japanese citizens were killed in the name of this victory. Besides, this “victory” taught America to…

It wasn’t a victory? Why the scare quotes?

The victory on Hitler gave to the world the wrong idea that evil can win evil.

How is that the “wrong idea”? It worked.

me: ‘You must kill them’ - means you must confirm their idea that you are Satin

What?

me: You never will kill ALL of them. But as more fiersfully you try to do that, as more hatred they will pass to their generation. Let say you killed ALMOST all of them, just a few people-refugees survived. They start a new colony, and after three generation will send nuclear-suicide bombers into suspecting nothing happy America, and it will be the last day for 90% americans, including your descendents.

Oh! So that’s what happened in Japan after WW2.

Oh wait,...that’s not what happened. How do you explain this discrepancy?

me: Well, R, sorry to say, but we have SOOOOOOO many disagreements in SOOOOOOO many life aspects, that it makes it hard to continua discussion just through logic. Though I really like you and pity, that your ideology does not allow you neither accept any other point of view…

Neither does yours. You have a crazy idea that disarming and talking would work with those who want us dead. One word describes that kind of thinking - naive.

loya - be original and write your own comment. Any more copy and pastes will be considered spam and treated as such.

“the victory against Hitler meant very sad thing: it taught Stalin to kill in order to achieve the desirable.”

Small prob.  Stalin killed because of his adherence to Marxist ideology.  He also killed in the thirties, before Hitler started his mass killings, way before we killed Hitler.  You lack the moral sense of right and wrong, good and evil.  Freedom is good, slavery is evil.  Get it?  When we killed the evil Hitler and the evil Tojo, it was not the same as when they killed millions to gain control and influence over the world.  If you can’t see that, you are truly a disadvantaged person.  Typical flawed leftie equivalency/moral relativism.

We need to stop argueing with each other and start seeing what is happening in this world.  All of this is in the bible, the end times.  Read and see prophecy unfolding right before your eyes.  This war started back in Abrahams day, when Isaac and Ishmael was born.(Gen 17:19)  Isaac the father of Isreal and us, and Ishmael the father of the Palestinian people.
This war is ancient and it will affect America, The bible states that there will be a one world government and a one world religion.  This one world religion will cut off your head if you do not join and worship the beast.  What does muslims do is you are not a muslim,,,,cut off your head!!!!!
We need to be watchful and alert to what is happening around us…pray, put on the whole armour of God.

I favor nukes, myself.

There is a prophecy that says Nuclear war will begin in the middle east on Wednesday.  Aug 2, 2006. 

Read about it here.

I’m not staying up nights worrying about it.  It will happen or not no matter what.

But, it gives one cause to ponder.

Excellent video - should be hsown on television and NOT necessarily on cable.

Marian Panzer on July 31, 2006 at 3:33 PM

Exelent Idea, It will never Happen. CBS,NBC, CNN and all the other are more concerned with Humiliateing a poor Murdering Terrorist by putting a pair off panties on his head. The Main Stream Media is on the side of the Muslims (Death Cult)

Gee thanx for the rosey outlook for the week Gene ... does this mean I should max out my credit card?

YOU ARE NOTHING BUT SHEEP IF YOU HAVE SUCH BLIND FAITH IN AN ADMINISTRATION THAT PROMISED TO LOWER TAXES AND DIDN’T(WHICH WE SHOULDN’T EVEN PAY - IT WAS NEVER RATIFIED IN CONGRESS).

NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUNS!!!!!!!

Gene: If this is true, then advantage us.  We have the best arsenal and the best delivery systems.

All I know is I’ve had this funny feeling for the past few months and have been loading up on guns and ammo. I don’t know exactly what’s coming, but this ‘funny feeling’ tells me it’s not going to be good and it’s going to be right here. For a while I thought it might come from the illegal aliens, but I’m not quite positive that’s it.

Get ready, folks. America is not a country someone can take over by taking Wahington, DC. It’s each individual they will have to defeat.

Well, except for the liberals. They’re gone anyway.

GOD bless America!

Since these extremists only have courage to fight when they are using innocent civilians as human shields (by firing their rockets from within their own communities)(surrounded by people who are predominately similarly brainwashed) - or - by inflicting their wrath on unarmed civilians - there are those that would (somewhat convincingly) argue that the only way to combat this threat is to “nuke’em all & let God sort them out”...

Sadly, even this won’t work. Although, it does have its merits…

This video should be required homework for all network executives.  Perhaps one of them might have the cahones to shrug off the politically correct suits they’re all wearing and give the rest of the nation the info we need to properly understand and combat this malignantly cancerous human “growth”..

Thanks for a great movie which should be required in our high schools.  This movie is a history lesson.  Perhaps should be shown on TV screens in this country. I have lived through many wars since WWII, and it is so frustrating to see so many citizens of this great country totally oblivious to what is going on.  It’s as if they are ostriches.  They just stick their head in the sand and hope all this Islamofacists will disappear.  It’s time to wake up if you care about our children’s future.  If we don’t act now we will be cursed by our future generations for not doing anything about it.

Thanks for a great movie which should be required viewing in our high schools.  This movie is a history lesson.  It should be shown on TV screens in this country. I have lived through many wars since WWII, and it is so frustrating to see so many citizens of this great country totally oblivious to what is going on.  It’s as if they are ostriches.  They just stick their head in the sand and hope all this Islamofacists will disappear.  It’s time to wake up if you care about our children’s future.  If we don’t act now we will be cursed by our future generations for not doing anything about it.  Have Americans lost their spine?

To bobcopy -

Your argument that our prosecuting the war in Iraq has made us the most hated nation in the worls is fallicious at best.  You assume that our actions have spawned their hatred and, hence, their terrorist acts.  How do you then explain terrorist acts before our invasion?  Terrorist acts were rampant during Clinton’s appeasement years.  Remember - he had Yassir Arafat to the White House more times than almost any other foreign leader.  Radical Islam existed long before our invasion of Iraq.  They simply see “The West” as their enemy and seek to destroy us any way possible.
Your assertion that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 attempts to shift the argument and misses the point entirely - perhaps deliberately.  Iraq was exporting terrorism, had acquired weapons of mass destruction (read General Georges Sada’s book if you doubt that), and had a number of terrorist training camp dotting its landscape.  This doesn’t take into account the pervasive rape and mass murder that took place during Hussein’s reign.  Obviously, we needed to take out this threat.  Incidentally, we did not need an “excuse” to invade Iraq as their repeated violations of the UN resolutions after the first Gulf War (i.e., shooting at our aircraft) was enough to justify another invasion.  Too bad you libs don’t know your history.  Or do you just ignore it?

I am grateful to see this posting about radical Islam - I have followed the progress of these lunatics for many years through Zola Levitt Presents, a show that has revealed this information for about the last 20 years, telling the truth where the ‘media’ has refused and refused. This is most convenient to forward around for more people to see, which is probably the only way many people will become aware of the danger we now face. I wish there were a way to force the media to reveal things they refuse to reveal - or hold them responsible for deaths and destruction that comes about due to their irresponsible and treasonous behavior.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/FEDERALRESERVE.HTML

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html

http://www.amerikanexpose.com/agenda21/care.html

http://www.lifesite.net/waronfamily/unicef/homeschoolalert.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/printer_3746.shtml

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2005/090605onleash.htm

http://www.darrenweeks.net/2005/09/martial-law-and-national-emergency.html

http://www.imaja.com/as/environment/cars/SuperhighwaysThreatenNA.html

Federal Reserve: Fraud of the Century
http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=108

Make clickable links man!

Good grief.

What’s the matter? Too damn lazy - eh! I thought so. Yer probably too damn stupid to know how to copy-n-paste em - eh, Moron!!

edit from likwidshoe - No, I am quite aware on how to copy and paste. Please tone down your attitude.

Generally Lik doesn’t mince words so it’s perhaps unwise to translate his stuff.  I am very sure if he wanted to call you a moron he would have done it.

In fact he very well might yet….

Generally Lik doesn’t mince words so it’s perhaps unwise to translate his stuff.

Oh no, that was me. I was letting “TruthSayer” there know that I do know how to copy and paste and really didn’t appreciate that comment in response to my helpful suggestion.

You think he got the point?

“Federal Reserve: Fraud of the Century
http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=108”

Nineteenth Century Marxist economic thinking. Inability to understand the real relationship between capital and labor.  Oh, well!

Nineteenth Century Marxist economic thinking. Inability to understand the real relationship between capital and labor. Oh, well!

You sure about that one? That book is against the Federal Reserve Bank. You know,..that entity that is not federal, not a reserve, and not a bank? Too much central planning for my tastes.

Likwid: Yes, I’m sure.  It is true, IMO, that we do have to have a shell of govt on some levels; the less, the better, and if there were no military threats in the world, probably unnecessary, but the ability to mobilize quickly does require some central govt.  Check Otto von Bismarck.

It is true, IMO, that we do have to have a shell of govt on some levels; the less, the better, and if there were no military threats in the world, probably unnecessary, but the ability to mobilize quickly does require some central govt.

That requires a central bank?

I figured you would be against the unaccountability and possible simple manipulation of the market. Best to leave these sorts of things to the free market.

The uneducated people of the world look to leaders for instruction and tend to believe that a leader is all wise, has all knowledge and actually communicates with his God on a personal level unknown to the uninitiated.  The left tends to believe that their is some special power granted only to the left that makes them all wise, all knowing. The educated left leads the uneducated into eventual oblivion. The educated left knows how to keep themselves from becoming a martyr however.  You don’t see the Sheiks, Ayatollahs, Bin Ladens or Zarkawis “sticking thier necks out” for the sake of Allah.  Instead they cower in tunnels (holes) in the earth, in religious buoildings and behind the bodies of women and children…all the while knowing that Christian westerner Christians would not slaughter innocents to simply get at the animals that call themselves Hezbullah. Hezbullah counts on this trait of Christians to stay effective and alive.  They are nothing more than traitorous cowards, afraid to make it known just how cowardly they are.

In my opinion and as far as I am concerned, every muslim is a potential target since every muslim swears unwavering allegiance to Allah and Allahs minions. They should NEVER be trusted and watched closely.  Your muslim neighbor my also want to be your executioner.

and after three generation will send nuclear-suicide bombers into suspecting nothing happy America, and it will be the last day for 90% americans, including your descendents.

Oh! So that’s what happened in Japan after WW2.
================================/
We ‘ll never know, who/what actually inspired 9/11, but you most likely are right: looks very alike two filled-with-death airplanes above Japanese cities in 1945…
==============================/
Of course, there is no way that anybody can talk with the hysterical crowds as it is there now. Any messenger of peace will be killed indeed with the utmost cruelty and satisfaction, as it was done before in the history and now. Later on crowds may sincerely repent about that, but for that we need, that the messenger’s words be heard before they die.
This only possible if they come there before (instead) or after the war. We have lost the chance of peace interference there INSTEAD of the military interference. We still can STOP the intervention and send volunteers there after hysterical peak has gone.
Anyhow these must be absolutely conscious people, with very high intellectual level, who studied the situation well enough to know all the view-points of opposed sides and all their argumentation. If the government dares to support this action, it should allow to these people the maximal access to the secret information before they go to Palestina. Beside, they will need at least 2 years to learn one of Muslim languages – without it the understanding will be impossible, and they be killed almost immediately. In addition, each such volunteer must be accompanied by an interpreter – the best option, if American government pays to the local volunteers-interpreters as much money as they want if they will be able to find someone. Interpreter is needed, since even 2 years of foreign language study is not enough to express yourself and to understand what is said, good enough for developing a contact with the crowd. Without this contact they will be killed after first few inevitable misunderstandings or miswordings.  After these conditions are met (stopped war, sufficient amount of highly informed volonteers, a period of peace enough to learn language and calm down + the local interpreter), still the risk of being killed will be high enough, but at least they will surely gain some time to TALK and be heard. Christ had three years to talk, and he WAS heard and admired and sorried for, though still disobeyed by all Christian worlds then and now.
The time came to bring HIS words to power.
=======================
well, if my participation here is not welcome I go. Otherwise I could past couple of responses from other believes (Hindu and Buddha).
Be peace with you.

Where can I get a copy of this video?

likwid: We do have a system based on free market activity, which is why I call the govt a “shell”.  I’m not an idealist, and I like the free enterprise system because it doesn’t require ideological perfection to operate effectively.  As a matter of fact, those who require ideological perfection are the enemy.  Individualism is the opposite of perfectionism.  Most of the govt structures are to our advantage, believe it or not.  It always needs to be limited, but it is necessary.

I can’t understand why this documentary is not shown on national television.  I have known for a long time that our mortal enemy is radical Islam. Most Americans, on the other hand, are oblisious to the threat.  We must wake up and marshal our forces to protect the Western world from Islamofacism.  History is repeating itself.  My father was part of the Greek army that liberated northern Greece from Islam in 1912.  I am seventy-four years old and the old problem has reared its ugly head again.

We must warn the world that we are in mortal danger of losing our heritage, our lives and our Judeo-Christian civilization.

+Fr. Constantine J. Simones

CM: Trying to wade through you writing style is daunting, but I think I get a little bit of what you are trying to express; I just think it’s foolish, and a misinterpretation of the teachings of Christ.  Even Mahatma Ghandi admitted in his biography that if he had tried what he did on anyone other than the British, he would have failed miserably.  To have a civilized dialogue, you have to have civilized people on both sides, and that is not happening here.  The savages who would strap bombs on children are not to be talked to, no matter how much you would like to avoid conflict with them.

savages who would strap bombs on children are not to be talked to,
=====
but be saved WITH their children, not be killed WITH their children.
—————/
Did not you heard from psychiatrists that very often the mother of young children (America, European Christian does not matter) - being in psychotic state close to suicide (left or mistreated by her husband or lover for example) first kills her children?
Sounds terrible, ea? Disgusting. But that is what some people do independently on their believe, if they are on despair. What do those people go through now - is this very same kind of psychotic disease - mass psychosis. Which is a very infectious disease, and its danger increases tremendously in time of total despair. You cant heal it by weapon, this only aggravates it. Can you imagine the crazy woman standing on the 5-th floor open window with her children on her arms? Would you talk to her with a gun in your hands or with the soothing softness?
If you can’t talk with them, why do not you ask Indian people? They have much longer history of accommodating to different religions.

Please compare those two paragraphs, one sent to me by one of my opponents, and another - the paragraf from Koran, sent to me by another opponent. I do not see much difference between them. Do you? No. Both passionately want to kill people of another believe. So, we are not better than them! Why we are if we want to kill them same cruelly, wiping away even their children???Yes, they are wrong and do not have an excuse for killing, but same wrong we are and do not have an excuse for killing. And still we do, and interfere to the lands which are thousands miles away from us, and kill people NOT FOR OUR OWN DEFENCE, but to convert people to our believe, to our understanding of “justice”, by fear, by bombing, by very same Muslim approach - “if you do not accept our way of justice, we bomb you on your own land and we kill you” .

—
me: you can’t kill them ALL. Each fallen soldier has 5 to 10 children who will dream to revenge for his father after they are adult. You do not invite to kill children, do you?
he: our “softness” makes things worse. They are breed to hatred since birth. We must kill them ALL.
me: oh, you do, sorry.
==========================================

Koran 8:37
In order that Allah may seperate the impure from the pure, Put All the impure ones (Non-Muslim), one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost
The “All-Merciful Allah” is now specifically instructing all “peace-loving Muslims” to heap up a mountain of corpses of the non believers. Of course, in order to do this holy task for Allah, the Muslim must first go out and attack innocent Non-Muslims and massacre them so that Allah’s wishes are fulfilled. Allah seems to have an inexhaustible thirst for the blood of innocents. Note that the reason given to massacre non-believers is that “Allah may seperate the Impure from the Pure”. It has nothing to do with self-defense or protection as Muslims try to argue.

“Christ Message” continues to vomit in this comment thread, What do those people go through now - is this very same kind of psychotic disease - mass psychosis. Which is a very infectious disease, and its danger increases tremendously in time of total despair.

Let’s kill it!

You cant heal it by weapon, this only aggravates it.

Sure you can. Dead is dead dude.

Can you imagine the crazy woman standing on the 5-th floor open window with her children on her arms?

To be really analogous, the crazy bitch’s kids would have bombs strapped onto them and she would be telling them to walk to me.

Would you talk to her with a gun in your hands or with the soothing softness?

Blow that crazy bitch away!

If you can’t talk with them, why do not you ask Indian people? They have much longer history of accommodating to different religions.

Yeah,..how are those Muslims treating the Indians? Not so well, are they? Kind of blows your message away, doesn’t it?

Now answer honestly, “Christ Message”.

Hindu wrote:
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 01:33:37 -0500
From: “M” To: “r”
Subject: Re: Fwd: Important

I would rate this video a 3/10. Very very poorly orchestrated and more of a propaganda tool than a well-balanced documentary.
It doesnt present any original, objective views based on an indepth original research and analysis, but a very shallow ideologically biased set of opinions of some pompous middle-eastern “experts”. The “daughter of a shaheed” and the “former PLO terrorist” both look like Hirsi Ali wannabes to me.
This video provokes a feeling of disbelief in me, since I cannot comprehend the amount of ignorance of these so-called experts shown there… none of them can barely pronounce an Arabic, Persian or Urdu word (atleast one of the three languages are spoken by around 1 billion or 90% of total muslim population in the world) and yet, claim “expertise” in the diverse muslim world’s cultural mileu and hand out lofty judgements based on some of the videos they show on Arab TV ??
The language used by Hassan Nasrallah maybe a bit incisive, but not much different from the rants of Rush Limbaugh or Pat Robertson.
When Rev. Robertson calls for the assassination of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, how is it any different from the assassination rants of Al-Zarqawi of Ariel Sharon ?
Both sides are not too different here and have their own disturbing brand of extremsists.
And the harsh truth is—the so-called “Radical Islam” is nothing but a tool which world powers have always used to manipulate each other since the creation of Israel after WW-II.
US has earlier used radical islam as a tool to beat soviets by supplying sophisticated arms and equipment to jihadists, who later became Talibaan.
Now Russia is trying to warm up to Iran along with China, to pay back to US in the same coin.
I just hope fewer babies are murdered by both sides in this so-called this “War on Terror” against “radical Islam” or whatever. After witnessing the Qana or Beslan massacres, its hard to justify actions of one side or the other openly anyway.
I’m just too cynical about this whole fight against terrorism, because no side has the right to claim “moral supremacy” here as both of them are guilty of doing some very heinous things for quite a while now.
thanks,
H

So, we are not better than them!

Christ:  You obviously do not see yourself better than them given your rationales and explanations as to why we should surrender to the forces of Islamic terrorism.

Neville Chamberlain would certainly be proud of you!

S wrote:
I grew up in India in a Hindu family, in a city with a predominantly Muslim culture, and did all my schooling in Catholic Schools, where the students were predominantly Hindus and Muslims. An attempt to learn to recite the Gita at a Hindu temple, brought some interesting insights into the minds of the so-called Hindu fanatics - they would make us say a prayer that was as follows:
Om tatsad Sri Narayan tu, Purushottam Guru tu,
Siddha Buddha tu, Skandha Vinayaka, Savita Pavak Tu,
Brahma Mazda tu, Yehova Shakti tu, Isha-pita prabhu tu.
Rudra Vishnu tu, Rama Krishna tu, Rahimta ho tu,
Vasudeva go-vishwarupa tu, Chidananda Hari tu,
Advitiya tu, Akala Nirbhaya, Atmaling Shiva tu.
The essential message is one of the unity of God, irrespective of the systems of faith. I have underlined references to Buddha, Ahur-Mazda, Yehova, and the Lord the father of Christ, as well as Rahim. I found this quite contrary to my expectations of the people who were behind these classes, who I saw as intolerant custodians of Hinduism.
Subsequently, I have had deep intimate relationships with Jews (she lives in Israel now), and Christians (my best-friend in India has found Christ) as well as other minor faiths as I have travelled around the world. In my experience, all faiths have indisputably provided the warmest and wonderful human beings in all domains of life. Through all the exposure at school, in the city, and India and the world in general, I met some of the most beautiful people. I count them among my dearest friends and my most treasured memories. I would not want any harm to come to them in the disguise of fanaticism of any kind.
I was not religious when young and in later years thought that if I ever considered belonging to a formal religion it might be Buddhism. I do not subscribe to a single school of thought now, having realized the inadequacy of any single system of thought to address the human condition. So any attempt to find an explanation in faith systems for the differences in Human beings is I think futile. All systems of faith have different origins. Conditions of those times and places have clearly shaped their original structure. Further, these are living systems, adapting to and modified by history (Read Karen Armstrong and the History of God).
People are smart enough to realize that as far as the human condition goes, the relationship to the spiritual does not address relationships to family, other people, nations, nature etc. And they have over time found answers that work, because a culture and a society based on negative traits is incapable of providing welfare and ensuring their own survival and growth. (Read Non-Zero for example).
Islamic systems which are being criticized in this debate here, have evidence of incredibly successful societies, the originators of some early scientific and social advances, which we have adopted and forgotten. Those beautiful remnants of architecture that we see, for example, that speak of the creativity of a culture cannot originate from a society bent on destruction. Why are we surprised if the modern sytems of thought do not have any place for the early developments and contributions of other societies and cultures? There is proof for example of the debt of Greek thought to Indian and middle-eastern thought, purely through the commerce and interchange that happened in the courts of the Middle East. Of course many in the west would not want to think anything good or useful ever came from there. It is not to say all in the west are like that. What I want to bring your attention to, is that systems of Power exploit and manipulate in different ways, to distort our understanding of what really happened.
So while these systems of thought, Islamic, Hindu, Christian, Jewish have provided a long and enduring source of answers to the Human relationship to the Spiritual world, in other domains people have adopted other worldviews to address situations they have encountered around the world and historically. Of course there have been people who have used religion to further their interests in power. One can then twist the meaning of anything to serve their own interest.
Does Krishna’s message to Arjuna, to kill relatives who oppose him a justification to kill all opposition in a Dharmayuddha - a Sanskrit term that could loosely be interpreted by the vile-minded to mean something like jihad (in modern interpretation), justify war against non-believers?
Interpretations are infinite, and are made to suit our current biases. Going beneath the superficial, and going behind the assumptions is the responsibility of those who want to bring about lasting change and truly solve wicked problems.
The problem of terrorism is a wicked problem. It is intricate and has too many complications, not just of faith, but history, power, economics, politics and so on. As many texts as there are on Islamic terrorism, you will find an equal number on how there might be a case against the state of Israel, or that the state practices a form of apartheid against its Arab citizens and so on. And these are written by Jewish authors too. (do a Google search to begin). There are other horses from whose mouths other truths come.
Before we label an entire culture terrorist, remember that the largest Muslim countries in the world are not in the Middle East - Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. Think about the legacy of the British imperialist policies of divide and rule, and what it has done to the Indian sub-continent. Think about what they might have been thinking at the time of the Palestine partition. Think about the fallacy of blaming the Christians through history blaming the Jews for something that was done 2000 years ago. Think also of the argument for a homeland based on equally old texts. How is an Arab not a Palestinian but somebody from Hungary is an Israeli? Who in modern history inflicted utter horrors on Jews and what have they done to compensate and expiate their crimes against humanity? What gave someone the right to carve out someone’s homes from a land, even if they had been there for only a couple of generations, to fulfill some promise of antiquity? How can such states then deny others who use antiquated texts as justification for their actions?
When the Berlin wall was still up, there was a graffiti there that said - “Those who build bunkers, throw bombs”.... I cannot help but think about the relevance of that statement in today’s context. We build walls to keep others out, real and imagined ones, and then complain how the others do not understand us. This is happening all over the world, I think.
At the personal level, let us practice what Michael Beck suggested.
At the social and political level let us not be naive, and take the time to get under the superficial. I do not know enough, but I know now that these problems are wickedly complicated. Every side has some justification. I also know that the problem cannot be solved by prejudice, by labeling an entire people as terrorist or prone to violence. You would then have sided with the people who find reason for ethnic hatred, enslaving others, Aryan-brotherhood, crusades etc, in other documents of faith. These labels come back to bite us. The first step to peace is to drop them from our own minds.
I think if you truly believe in solving something, then you might want to consider selfless, desire-less listening. Some over here think highly of Gandhi. One Jewish proponent of peace considered him to be one of the best Jews to emulate. Gandhi himself has responded by saying I am a Hindu, a Muslim and Christian. One of his most popular prayers begins with “Allah tero naam….”, your name is Allah and so on. And he also said - “You must be the change you want to see in this world”. And that does not mean we have to put our lives on line in the Middle East to prove this.
We can start with putting the right people in power to represent us everywhere, people who do not believe that the solution to all problems in the world lies in imposing their system of beliefs or in military solutions. People whose lives are not dependent on the growth of defense industry sales, who do not need to create a perpetual fear of terrorism for them to stay in power, who do not need an excuse to pollute so that the oil industry and the auto industry might flourish, who will not distort the legitimate rights of people by corrupting systems of power, just so they can have unlimited and unfair access to sources of energy and so on, who will give others a voice just as much as they give us a voice.
Oh, well…. I have work to do myself.
cheers
S

Cancer needs to be erradicated prior to it killing you! Islamic fundamentalists are a cancer that need to be removed from this earth, else they will devour us. It is impossible to fight an enemy that is willing to kill itself, without us being united. This is not about Republican spending or Democrats getting BJ’s. This is about the way we live our lives in the west. Our European “allies” are in serious problems with over 30m muslims living in their communities. If the estimate on the show is correct (15% are fundamentalist) then there are close to 5m fundamentalists in Europe - so Europe can kiss its ass goodbye. Again, Amercia will have to bail Europe out, but lets ensure that at home we are unified to fight this cancer!!

Yes Europe is screwed but then again so are we. The government says no profiling we I do and will remain doing it. These zealots will be the end of us all unless we stop them.

Excellent job on the movie comparing Islam Radicals to Nazi Germany.  I think though the movie at this time only preaches to the choir.  I can’t understand why more people don’t see the threat to America and non-muslims.  Michael Moore sure doesn’t see it.
But I do.  And I will stand tall against it. God Bless America!

Great job done on this video.  We are at danger of being taken over by these radical Islamics.  However, I blame the government a lot. Why arent they doing more about this.  Why arent Americans and others not being told/educated about this?  That makes me more angry than these terrorists?  Very well said about the west coast in regards to all those in Hollywood that cant see beyond their nose….IF and only IF the west coast had been terrorized like the east coast was on 9/11, would they get their head out of their asses and be against these terrorist and want the government to do something about .......not blame Bush for it. This government is suppose to be for US the people…..we should have imput on all this as a nation.

One more thing…....these extremist groups should NOT be allowed to burn our flag on our soil and chant “Death to America” and “America has a loop hole in its law, the freedom of speech” they should be arrested and sent back to where they came from and NEVER be allowed to come back.