Obama’s Weak Grasp Of History Is Informing His Attempt To Resurrect “New Deal” Programs

Something to keep in mind about the massive investments into national infrastructure Obama is touting as something that will create jobs and help get us out of this economic downturn: America is not the same country as it was when Eisenhower did it.
Here’s Obama making his pitch, and invoking both FDR’s “New Deal” programs and Eisenhower’s creation of the interstate highway system:


As far as Eisenhower is concerned, let’s remember that he spent the money at a time of economic prosperity. The country was flush, and the spending was appropriate.
Second, let’s also remember that the job creation which took place as a result of Eisenhower’s highway projects wasn’t so much due to the government hiring up workers but rather due to the increased mobility the highway system itself afforded. In the 1950′s automobiles were just becoming affordable enough for widespread use in many parts of the country, and the highways themselves made it easier and cheaper to transport goods into the interior of the country. The impact those two things had on the private sector (cheaper goods, cheaper transport and citizens better able to access jobs/goods/services in other parts of the country) created the jobs. Not the government spending.
Eisenhower’s highway system had a profound impact on the nation’s economy. Obama’s spending isn’t likely to do the same thing. We’re already a very mobile society, and so building new roads of bridges isn’t likely to do much of anything for our economy. Obama’s projects will employ more people with the government, sure, but given that all government spending represents a burden on the taxpayers the most you can expect from that is to create the same number of jobs through government spending as would have been created if that money had stayed with the taxpayers and been spent in the economy by them.

Tags: ,


«
»
  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Please link to my statements where I have written:

    (I) don’t want to cut spending. At all.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Mickey. Thanks for the hint. I will go and visit his blog. In no way was I trying to humiliate him, just compare education level and experience since he brought it up.

    I respect http://www.willisms.com/ for a more thorough explanation in this field.

  • di butler

    No, you ass, I didn’t marry money, I married my husband. He happened to have some money,not as much as he did, he had gotten cleaned out from his divorce, and he has made most of what we have with me. I have brought in a lot of income myself, women can do that, you know.

  • syn

    Clearly the major difference between myself and Dino is that I do not NEED any Democrat politician to take care of me, treating me as a hapless child who never learned how to grow up.

    And unlike Dino, I love my independance, my freedom, my liberty from serfdom under which poor, pitiful Dino must suffer.

  • di butler

    Bob wants more IRS auditors, I posit we just give up the IRS. Come up with a new system. Implement Fair Tax. Do something about the combo drag of Medicare/SS. These are losing entities, privatization is a great idea for at least a portion of SS. Make these drones responsible for some of their own retirement. They will be motivated when it is their money.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Just checking back here. Thanks, QueenZel. Dino. Just like affirmative action/quotas/Chicago shakedown artists, the CRA forced banks directly or indirectly to make loans to those individuals who could not repay their loans.

    Every reference people make you attempt to smear instead of debate.

    With that nutjob?

    Here is just one analysis other that those I have posted on my blog:

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

    You have tried to set up a false argument by attempting to create what you call “sub-prime lenders” and them argue against your straw-man. That is not what I posted.
    Try to address the numerous requirements that force banks to loan money to people who would not quality otherwise.

  • Dino

    Just making sure you see this:

    BREAKING NEWS ABOUT FREDDIE MAC CORRUPTION

    Proves REPUBLICANS helped bring about the collapse! So much for Gingrich 2012! HE’S TOAST.

    AP IMPACT: How Freddie Mac halted regulatory drive

    Internal Freddie Mac budget records show $11.7 million was paid to 52 outside lobbyists and consultants in 2006. Power brokers such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich were recruited with six-figure contracts. Freddie Mac paid the following amounts to the firms of former Republican lawmakers or ex-GOP staffers in 2006:

    _Sen. Alfonse D’Amato of New York, at Park Strategies, $240,000.

    _Rep. Vin Weber of Minnesota, at Clark & Weinstock, $360,297.

    _Rep. Susan Molinari of New York, at Washington Group, $300,062.

    _Susan Hirschmann at Williams & Jensen, former chief of staff to House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, $240,790.

    Freddie Mac’s chairman and chief executive, Dick Syron, and McLoughlin, senior vice president for external relations, used Clark and Weinstock extensively, Weber said in an e-mail Friday.

    “I personally met with the CEO several times and with Hollis and his team regularly,” Weber said in the e-mail. “Clark and Weinstock worked effectively and intensely for Freddie Mac under Dick Syron and Hollis McLoughlin.”

    The tactics worked — for a time. Freddie Mac was able to operate with a relatively free hand until the housing bubble ultimately burst in 2007.

    Commercial banks regarded Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae as competitors and were anxious to pick up business that would result from scaling back the two companies.

    Pushing back, Freddie Mac enlisted prominent conservatives, including Gingrich and former Justice Department official Viet Dinh, paying each $300,000 in 2006, according to internal records.

    Gingrich talked and wrote about what he saw as the benefits of the Freddie Mac business model.

    Dinh wrote a legal analysis of private property rights that viewed a hypothetical government-enforced sale of Freddie Mac assets as constitutionally suspect.

    The AP previously described, in October, how Freddie Mac thwarted efforts to bring a tough regulatory bill sponsored by Republican Sens. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, John Sununu of New Hampshire, Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina and John McCain of Arizona to a full Senate vote.

    At a meeting days after Hagel’s bill went to the full Senate, Syron and McLoughlin berated the company’s in-house lobbyists for failing to keep Hagel’s bill corralled in committee, said the four people familiar with events at Freddie Mac at the time.

    Freddie Mac shifted into high gear, secretly paying a Republican consulting firm, Washington-based DCI Group, $2 million to kill Hagel’s legislation. The covert lobbying campaign targeted Republican senators in 2005-06.

    According to the newly obtained records, DCI’s deployment was part of a broader campaign that targeted mainly Republicans on Capitol Hill.

  • Dino

    Mickey, not one person on here has been able to refute anything I said or posted much less humiliate me.

    But then, you people think you won the war in Iraq. Conservatives always see themselves as winners even when they lose.

  • ellinas

    Well if you weren’t demanding everyone else work to support the slackers I’d say good for you. But now it looks like you think everyone else needs to step it up so you can feel good about yourself.

    The Whistler on December 7, 2008 at 05:42 pm

    So what do you suggest we do with the “slackers” amongst us?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Are you blind? Do you not see how it leveled off under Clinton’s budget and tax policies?

    You are referring, of course, to the balanced budgets which originated in the Republican controlled House of Representatives?

    Remove the beam out of your own eye first!

    You people don’t believe anything that doesn’t align with your narrow view of the world.

    Enough projection to light a multiplex! Heh.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    But then, you people think you won the war in Iraq.

    The US military, under Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush, won the war in Iraq. Anyone who thinks (or feels ) differently is delusional.
    (Or suffers from BDS, or both.)

    And what’s with the “you people”? Perhaps someone might take your rantings halfway seriously if you were not constantly painting all conservatives and Republicans ( there is a difference, you know!) with the same broad brush. Don’t you ever learn?
    (Rhetorical question, of course you don’t!)

    not one person on here has been able to refute anything I said

    Impenetrable ignorance with delusions of adequacy!

    much less humiliate me.

    You do such a splendid job of that yourself. We just stand back and watch!

    Now please, call everyone a “brainstem” and congratulate yourself on just how smart you are! It’s fun to watch!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Do you know what open storage is?

    Chief: You’re not talking about that vacant space between Dino’s ears, are you? Heh.

  • pparets

    dino…. google…. try it.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Budgets originate in the Executive branch.

    Budget requests originate in the Executive branch. Budget legislation originates in the House.

    In the case you cited, a Republican controlled House, which gave Clinton balanced budgets despite his requests to spend more.

    Witness how the budget surplus was blown to bits by the republican president that followed Clinton.

    “blown to bits”… interesting choice of words, considering what happened Sept. 11, 2001.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    The interstate highway system was also built as a civil defense measure to evacuate the cities in the case of nuclear war as well as moving troops and supplies around in the case of invasion.

    Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways

    And no, there’s no point to this comment.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    I just skip over Dino’s posts and my life is improved ten fold.

    You’re missing some comedy gold, there, Mickey! This guy is unintentionally funny!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    (Commence with jokes about “blown”.)

    You are your own joke, Dino. I can’t improve upon that!

  • LoadTheMule

    You’re also ‘wasting’ your time, I imagine…

  • http://www.twitter.com/OneAndOnlyZel QueenZel

    These problems did start 30 years ago, but with Jimmy Carter and the Reinvestment Act.

    Right. And, I’ve read all of dino’s info re: how conservatives are delusional for blaming the CRA. Those are wrong and social engineering is not mandated by the Constitution. In liberals’ attempts at “multiculturalism,” etc., they’ve only mucked things up.
    This is excellent, watch:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCtZ2db_Xk

  • Dino

    Proof, I’ve blown so many of your arguments out of the water I’m getting bored.

    (Commence with jokes about “blown”.)

    Spending on SS & Medicare is our money being returned to us. If the government takes from us and doesn’t give anything back, what good is that?

    You people don’t want to pay for the things you USE including SS & Medicare. Every last one of you runs to Medicare to pay for your aged relatives’ health care. Otherwise you’d be helping them.

  • Mickey

    I just skip over Dino’s posts and my life is improved ten fold.

    As for Obama I can’t help but get the impression he is a romantic with a huge ego. He and his followers keep drumming up past presidents like Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy and now Eisenhower in some bizarre attempt to draw correlations between them and himself. The events that shaped those leaders were unique to those times. Granted we can learn from the past and improve on it but that is something that has always been happening and always will. Obama isn’t the first or last president to make an impact, positive or negative, on the country.

    The time has come for Obama to put up or shut up. Be himself and we will decide for ourselves if he is a hero or a zero. But first he must actually implement something and then finish it.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Some one has to pay for the spending your gop has done.
    It’s not like we can just print more money to pay the gop debt…oh wait a minute…

    Biggest spending problem: military industrial complex

  • Mickey

    Obama’s public construction program has merit because most of these infrastructure issues are long over due. I imagine he will shift the funds that was going into the war back into a domestic rebuild of roads, bridges, schools, free broadband and health care. A grand gesture if ever there was one. I suspect Bush would of done the same except 911 happened and the focus had to shift into national security.

    I hope for the nations sake and Obama’s reputation with his liberal base that we don’t experience another major terrorist attack. Otherwise he will have to make a similar tough decision as Bush did. Here is where Obama could be more reflective of Eisenhower and less of Carter. We do not need a repeat of that dismal Carter era in American History but we continue to require a tough Commander and Chief. Protecting the citizens is still the top priority of that office.

  • ellinas

    If that’s were the case they’d have no problems with me just keeping my money and paying my own way in the future.
    It turns out they don’t agree with that at all.

    The Whistler on December 7, 2008 at 11:42 am

    You may be able to pull it through.
    I would suggest that the burden to us all would be greater in the absense of SS. While you are blessed with your good fortune and will be able to invest/save for retirement, many millions of citizens will not.

  • Dino

    Chief economics expert says: “I made the points that the federal government required banks to make loans to unqualified persons.”

    The CRA never mandated lonas be made to anyone unqualified. It requires that banks loan to areas in which their branches are located. That’s all. Not unqualified. And if you’d read the credible news sources I posted, the bad loans that led to the crisis were mostly from non-CRA institutions. That you reject several different legitimate news sources is your problem. That you won’t read them is proof of your total lack of intellectual ability.

    Wow! An economics course. In grad school no less! I took engineering and law courses in grad school. Am I a lawyer or an engineer? I took biology once too. Can I be a doctor?

    The CRA came about in 1977. The bubble burst in 2007. An economics whiz like you should be able to do the math.

    You can pretend that the crisis was created 30 years ago by Carter and that the 30 years of republican policies that followed it had nothing to do with it. Obviously the voters decided otherwise and replaced the republicans.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Great chart, rube!

    Thanks for proving my point.

    How can you nutters keep supporting the fraudulent gop?

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    What is his blog? It is not linked from his name.

  • ellinas

    Try to pay attention gal. You might learn something.

    The Whistler on December 7, 2008 at 05:59 pm

    Ooops!!! I think we both misundestood each other.

    Now on the other hand, since you may have doubts about my gender, feel free to reach across the internets gab between my legs, and once and for all remove any doubts you may have about me being a man /sarcasm

  • ellinas

    Was there any doubt as to what SS is for?

    Your buddy Dino was the one questioning that.

    The Whistler on December 7, 2008 at 05:42 pm

    Then refer your derogatory answer to where it fits.

  • Dino

    You get painted with the same broad brush because you all think alike. Which is to say whacked out and nutty. Conservatism is all about conformity and uniformity of belief.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    You get painted with the same broad brush because you all think alike. Which is to say whacked out and nutty. Conservatism is all about conformity and uniformity of belief.

    See why no one takes you seriously, Brown eyes? Heh.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Yes, tax and spend (paygo) is better than cut taxes and spend.

    Cut taxes and borrow and spend…is that your idea of a good time?

    Why do you support a gop that is such a joke?

  • Mickey

    Economics. Name the courses you have taken. I finished my EdS with a graduate level course in Business Economics.

    Chief,

    Touche.

    Our little libertine masochist troll savors his public humiliation on this blog.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Dino.

    the credible news sources

    once again adding qualifiers that only you approve.

    What degree(s) went with your courses? Mine are posted on my profile.

    I did the math 2007-1977 = 30 about the time 30 year fixed mortgages come due.

    Holding companies have been passing around those worthless paper IOUs for quite some time now, bolstered by the 1935 “rules of acceptable accounting practices” that allow them to claim (worthless) IOUs as assets.

    By the way, “junk bonds” are IOUs that are/were at “sub-prime” rates, but were and are repaid by honest people.

    You have tried to deflect the issue by attempting to shift blame to those institutions who loaned money at branches under “the gun” of CRA to people who could not repay.

    Have you ever heard of Billy Sol Estes? He did about the same thing. In his case, he forced Nitrogen upon unsuspecting farmers who did not want the product, then claimed as assets all those empty cylinders.

    Yes, there are some people like Billy Sol, but at least he was not forced to make those loans.

    Glad to engage in another discussion as soon as you acknowledge that some banks are and still are forced to make loans to overpriced houses and to people who can not and will not repay loans.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Dino, I made a plausible reply to your 30 year “do the math” question.
    Another qualifier:

    The subprime market didn’t exist then as it does now

    .
    No. Nothing is exactly equal in measurement, just in counting integers.

    You are still trying to debate about “sub-prime markets”. Well, they did exist in the form of “junk bonds” that I have already presented, remember? Anyone who took out a 30 year loan before Jimmy Carter’s inflation of around 20% held “sub-prime loans”. In fact, my 30 year loan at the time could qualify, I guess. I signed one in 1977 for about 6%. I did well because my income increased three time the loan rate during the Carter years.

    Well. Interesting statement:

    And no, I can’t agree that the CRA or any other law mandated nor forced banks to lend to unqualified applicants. No banks had that burden. NONE.

    I will interview the president of my local bank, Bank of America and ask her about it next time I go there, but she probably is an “un-credible source”
    In the meantime, how about the NYT :: “Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.”
    Source: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0de7db153ef933a0575ac0a96f958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

    History, Dino. The Republicans had “all the cards” for about four of the last 30 years.
    They took the House around 1994 and the Senate a few years later, then one R changed his affiliation.

    So, I will post on my blog probably the results of some interviews with people who actually are involved in this coercion and see what they say. I wonder what you will do when you are confronted with The Truth?

    I did learn quite a bit in the economics courses of government monopoly power. Did you know that the Federal Government granted Bell Telephone monopoly power back around the mid 1930s if they would stay out of the computer business?

    Do you know what open storage is?

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Spending on SS & Medicare is our money being returned to us.

    If that’s were the case they’d have no problems with me just keeping my money and paying my own way in the future.

    It turns out they don’t agree with that at all.

  • Dino

    Oh, so the people are defaulting on loans made 30 years ago? Ok, that makes sense. ????

    The subprime market didn’t exist then as it does now. Thje mortgages going south were created in recent years, not 30 years ago.

    And no, I can’t agree that the CRA or any other law mandated nor forced banks to lend to unqualified applicants. No banks had that burden. NONE.

    But think about what you believe. If it were true, the banking industry would have had it reversed many years ago when republicans had all the cards, which was most of the last 30 years.

    You’re chasing your tail, doing mental gymnastics to find a villian that isn’t a republican or conservative. You won’t be successful.

  • bill-tb

    Does the desk look too big to you?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Proof, I’ve blown so many of your arguments out of the water I’m getting bored.

    Try actually reading the arguments sometime, then respond!
    Conspicuously absent, for example is your response to my comment at 6:50 last night:

    Are you blind? Do you not see how it leveled off under Clinton’s budget and tax policies? -Dino

    You are referring, of course, to the balanced budgets which originated in the Republican controlled House of Representatives? -Proof

    You haven’t touched any of my arguments. You are a legend in your own mind if you think you’ve actually refuted any of them! There’s a kiddie pool over in Hawaii with your name on it… wear a vest!

  • Dino

    How long shall we give the republicans to make these cuts in spending? The only progress made in the last 30 years to balance the budget or reduce the debt was made by Clinton when he raised taxes.

    You can trace the rising debt and deficits to Reagan’s tax cuts. They did not produce the magic they were touted to deliver. All they did was destroy the middle class. The resentment and anger you’re feeling is misplaced.

    It should be focused on conservatives.

  • ellinas

    You’re also ‘wasting’ your time, I imagine…

    LoadTheMule on December 8, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Oh, no! I am having fun.

  • Dino

    Amazing that you walking brainstems think you’re going to blame Carter for this!

    That’s because, Chief, you’re too stupid to read these:

    The definitive article on the CRA and why conservatives are deluded:

    Subprime Suspects

    More for your enjoyment:

    Edward Lotterman: Don’t believe the myth about the fiscal mess

    See if you can comprehend this one:
    Most subprime lenders weren’t subject to federal lending law

    This one might make your head explode:

    Misunderstanding Credit and Housing Crises: Blaming the CRA, GSEs

    This one requires a higher level of understanding. Kind of academic. Get a kind liberal to explain it to you:
    Fannie Freddie data

    And last but not least, the reason why reining in F&F didn’t happen:

    AP IMPACT: Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign

    But wait! There’s more!

    Bush administration ignored clear warnings
    Under pressure from banking industry, U.S. government eased lending rules

    Greenspan — Flawed Ideology, Deregulation Cause of Collapse, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Only a Factor

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Was there any doubt as to what SS is for?

    Your buddy Dino was the one questioning that.

    I retired at the ripe old age of fifty, and my retirement cost you nothing. Took care of myself, and family.

    Well if you weren’t demanding everyone else work to support the slackers I’d say good for you. But now it looks like you think everyone else needs to step it up so you can feel good about yourself.

    I would suggest that the burden to us all would be greater in the absense of SS. While you are blessed with your good fortune and will be able to invest/save for retirement, many millions of citizens will not.

  • ellinas

    Dino. You are waisting your time. These fellas have already made up their minds. No amount of truth can bring them back to reality.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Without a doubt there are scores if not hundreds of gov agencies and programs that are complete bunk and should be zeroed out within weeks of Barry Hussein’s inauguration. The overruns and redundancy in those that make the cut must be eliminated. Gov. contracts to private entities must be vigorously audited. Contracts to private entities whose base is outside our borders, whose contracts are paid with US tax payers money (re: all gov. contracts) should by law, be obligated to pay what ever the tax rate is for US entities. There should be vigorously enforcement of existing laws covering fraud and abuse, perhaps mandatory decade long prison terms for those found guilty. Saying that, cuts should be made in incarceration of non violent crime, possession crime. Instead, fine the guilty for the court time and whatever a punishing punishment would be. We should not have to house and feed douche bags, just criminals. We incarcerate more people than any nation on earth. Prison is a big business and they always need more customers to grow and provide a return for their stock holders. Our prison system is just a way of bleeding Americans of more tax dollars. End corporate welfare. Stop giving tax breaks to businesses. On both the federal, and local level. If they can’t make it on their own, they shouldn’t be in business. Unless the tax payers get a return on they money…like an investment. phuck big pharma. Tax loopholes are a joke. W has cut IRS auditors. There must be billions upon billion of tax revenue lost to corporate (and individual tax cheats). That must end. So, I would start with fraud and abuse losses to find out what is actually being lost (what the actual tax revenue should be) and balance the real total against what is promised, by law, to American citizens.

    Obviously there is so much more but I have to go

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Then refer your derogatory answer to where it fits.

    I can’t believe it. Every thread you get involved with you make yourself out to be an idiot. And you’ve done it again!
    Dino said that SS was our money being returned to us.

    I said if that were true, they wouldn’t mind it if I kept my money.
    You said that they would miss my money.
    I thanked you for taking my side, that it was a social program.
    You said there never was any doubt that it was a social program.
    I said your buddy Dino was the one who was questioning the fact that you and I agree with.

    Now you get upset and tell me to refer back to Dino my deraugatory answer. Apparently you didn’t notice that you jumped into the conversation (which is 100% fine) but now you’re trying to claim that I shouldn’t have answered you when you jumped in.

    Try to pay attention gal. You might learn something.

  • pparets

    Well, Dino, you asked for ANYTHING – some proof…

    Give me some proof, some statement from a banking official, some data, ANYTHING that shows the CRA as being the cause of the mortgage meltdown.

    So, there is this from Thomas J. DiLorenzo, Professor of Economics at Loyola of Maryland College. But what the hell does he know.. he’s only an economist.

    Banks have been placed in a Catch 22 situation by the CRA: If they comply, they know they will have to suffer from more loan defaults. If they don’t comply, they face financial penalties and, worse yet, their business plans for mergers, branch expansions, etc. can be blocked by CRA protesters, which can cost a large corporation like Bank of America billions of dollars. Like most businesses, they have largely buckled under and have surrendered to their bureaucratic masters.

    Consequently, banks in every community in America have been forced to hold a portfolio of bad loans, euphemistically referred to as “subprime” loans. In order to compensate themselves for the added risk of extending these loans, many lenders have increased the lending fees associated with mortgage loans. This is simply an indirect way of doing what banks always do — and what they must do to remain solvent: charging effectively higher rates of interest on riskier loans.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo125.html

  • di butler

    Dino doesn’t know shit about me, but he loves to take a swipe at me everytime he can. What’s the matter, won’t any of the Sugar Daddies set you up, Dinoster? I’m a pretty tough one, raised in the country, I can survive, how bout you, Mr. Big City??

  • pparets

    Slate? Idaho Statesman? MSNBC?

    omg… I am overwhelmed by the flawless legitimacy of your sources….

    not.

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

  • pparets

    Define social spending. Almost any way you define it, it’s a miniscule part of government spending.

  • di butler

    Sorry, when I was talking about his seal, I meant to say, at his presser, it is huge looking.

  • pparets

    Oh, where, oh where has our diiiiiino gone? Oh,where, oh where has he gone?

    Why does he always seem to vanish when someone actually meets his challenge?

  • Mickey

    Cutting taxes in half would grow the economy and individual wealth faster than Obama’s proposed socialized spending. Government intervention in the economy must be avoided like the plague.

    Socialism’s history is littered with repeated failures and with human misery on a massive scale. Environmentalism, too, has the happy knack of inspiring the young and firing the imagination of idealists. This is because the radical green movement shares many features with old-style revolutionary socialism. Both are oppositional, defining themselves as alternatives to the existing capitalist system. Both are moralistic, seeking to purify humanity of its tawdry materialism and selfishness, and appealing to our ‘higher instincts.’ Both are apocalyptic, claiming to be able to read the future and warning, like Old Testament prophets, of looming catastrophe if we do not change our ways. And both are Utopian, holding out the promise of redemption through a new social order based on a more enlightened humanity. All of this is irresistibly appealing to romantics. Obama is one of those romantics, comparing himself to Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy and now Eisenhower.

    Both socialism and environmentalism also share an unshakeable belief in their own infallibility. Both dismiss their opponents as either ignorant (“walking brainstems”) or in bad faith, and they are both reluctant to allow counter-arguments, evidence, or logic to deflect them from the urgent pursuit of their proffered solutions. Although they both ground their claims in ‘science,’ their appeal is as much emotional as rational, and both take themselves so seriously that they lose any sense of irony, (IE; Dino).

    World poverty has fallen more in the last fifty years than it did in the previous five hundred. This dramatic reduction in human misery and despair is due to the spread of global capitalism.

    Dino may believe he knows what is good for us, but millions of people interacting in the marketplace keep rebuffing him. We can fulfil human needs without first seeking his moral approval. Capitalism works.

  • Neiman

    Dino:

    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

    You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

    You cannot further the brotherhood of many by inciting class hatred.

    You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.

    You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

    –Abraham Lincoln

    We are still feeling some of the negative effects of The New Deal, it morphed into The Great Society (Welfare State) and whatever Imam Hussein Obama will call his program (The Screw Everyone Possible Society), it will just be more of the old, old story, pull everyone down to make everyone equal, with the problem being, we always have a ruling elite that do very well thank you.

    I once heard a preacher, who asked the Choir Director to get up on a bench and pull the minister up with him, it didn’t work out. Then he stayed on the bench, got the Choir Director on the floor and asked him to pull the minister down, it was very easy. But, the minister got back on the bench and left a step stool at the bottom, whereby the Choir Director climbed up by himself. It is easy to pull everyone down to make every one equal, it is very hard to pull anyone up to make them equal with those on top, but the guy on top can give the man below the tools to climb up, while it is up to the guy on the bottom to use those tools. The latter case is conservatism: Give everyone the tools to succeed, but know that they must use those tools themselves, they must take the responsibility.

  • Dino

    Perhaps you could explain that graph and give it a link. it certainly doesn’t look to support your side’s weak argument that social spending is breaking us.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    again rube: Military Industrial Complex…

    More for the soldiers less for the machine

  • ellinas

    how the hell does he think we are going to pay for this?
    Where is the funding going to come from? We can’t raise taxes during a financial crisis.

    goon on December 6, 2008 at 02:25 pm

    What crisis goon? Haven’t you heard Robert108 sing praises to our economy? We are doing fine according to Robert108.
    Quit whining.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    We’ll eat you for lunch.

    Chief: Dino definitely bites! Heh.

  • Dino

    Here’s the smoking gun from di’s article:

    Was there a high enough level of CRA-related lending to spark our current crisis? Not on its own, of course. The crucial link was the extension of CRA-type thinking and regulation to the secondary mortgage markets through the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which buy loans from banks in order to provide liquidity.

    That’s a stretch of logic that the “CRA-type thinking” is even remotely responsible and IT DIDN’T EVEN SAY THAT. And it’s a CONSERVATIVE JOURNAL. Even this conservative journal had to make a huge leap of speculation to tie the CRA to the meltdown.

    Get all that?

    Come back when you learn to argue a point with some intelligence.

  • Dino

    You can laugh off links from respected sources but it doesn’t change the truth.

    But let’s see your evidence that the CRA was the culprit. C’mon Rob, give us some data, some proof. An article from NewsMax, that tired old video from YouTube and “journalism” from World Net Daily doesn’t count.

    Give us the data on how many subprime mortgages were CRA loans. Show us proof that the loan application standards were dropped due ot the CRA. Show us an interview, a statement, ANYTHING from the banking community that says they had to loan to poor people because they werre forced to. Show us all the poor people who bought McMansions in the suburbs of Phoenix, Las Vegas or Sacramento. Give us some data. If your version is the correct one, the data should be easy to find.

    You people don’t believe anything that doesn’t align with your narrow view of the world. That’s why your ideology is on the wane after being replaced in the last 2 elections.

    PUT UP OR STFU, brainstems.

  • Dino

    Well yeah, it is a different country. We’re broke from 30 years of supply-side economics and ruinous conservative fiscal policies. When the most intellectually-challenged among you exclaims that we can’t afford to improve the infrastructure or create jobs you fail to realize that it’s because the people you support, the idiots you voted for BROKE THE BANK.

    I would love to hear what deep thinkers like di “I married money” butler thinks we should do to address the meltdown.

    I actually think we should do nothing and let this country turn into Bolivia so the vasty slums full of poor people can beat the rich with tire irons as they try to escape and then we can create a truly socialist culture.

    Social upheaval won’t be cured by your fascination with weapons, brainstems. You won’t do well if things get ugly. You’re soft from living in your lily white suburbs of relative safety. We’ll eat you for lunch.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Well yeah, it is a different country. We’re broke from 30 years of supply-side economics and ruinous conservative fiscal policies.

    Mostly we’re broke because we have too many people getting checks from the government, and not enough people working hard enough to be taxpayers.

    I’m a teacher. I see a definite mentality where about a third-a half want to sit back and let someone else do the work. I think that’s true in the general public where the people who were lazy students in school are now lazy empolyees or welfare recipiants.

    Theres an old saying:

    Vote Democrat, it’s easier than working.

    And it’s too true.

  • http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

    how the hell does he think we are going to pay for this?
    Where is the funding going to come from? We can’t raise taxes during a financial crisis.

  • http://www.twitter.com/OneAndOnlyZel QueenZel

    Does the desk look too big to you?

    It’s symbolic, huh, of everything he just said.

  • Dino

    You still haven’t denied marrying your money.

    So come on people. Let’s see that data on the CRA and all the bad loans it created. Come on. You don’t want to see my links anymore, let’s see your proof.

    I’ll wait.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    ellinas. Just don’t you laugh when certain people guess the motivations and history of others? ]sarcasm[

    In reference to my previous comment on not accepting a nobel prize, here is a historical post to support my opinion. Note that the NY Times does not dispute the part about Walter Duranty.

  • di butler

    Let’s see, government programs, hmmm, like the new Capitol Visitor’s Center? Only cost $621 mil, instead of $70 mil, way behind on completion. I forsee 5 men standing around, 1 working. And they are all illegals. As for the schools, it costs less to build new ones than to fix old ones. Most don’t need to even be there, just scrapped. The medial records. No need for privacy there, let’s all put our info out there. Most insurances offer this now, a lot of people renege, I don’t want it. This is just shoring up votes for 2012, not really going to help the economy. Next idea.

  • Dino

    Define social spending. Almost any way you define it, it’s a miniscule part of government spending.

    But your comments are indicative of the pathology of the conservative who thinks 90% of the tax they pay goes to lazy people.

  • Dino

    Budgets originate in the Executive branch. Witness how the budget surplus was blown to bits by the republican president that followed Clinton.

  • pparets

    This will surprise you, dino, but I agree about NewsMax and WorldNetDaily.

    But tell me, when did “I-feel-a-tingling-up-my-leg”-MSNBC become a “respected” news source?

  • di butler

    http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon1030hh.html

    You guys may disagree, but I found this article from City Journal pretty fair.

  • Dino

    Ok, I guess you didn’t find anything. LOL, what rubes you people are! I give you the ooprtunity to FIND ME SOME DATA THAT SAYS THE CRA CAUSED THE BAD LOAN MESS AND I’LL GO AWAY.

    But……..YOU CAN’T.

    And to clarify the 20% figure you incorrectly seized upon (you accept that part of my links?):

    An analysis of more than 12 million subprime mortgages worth nearly $2 trillion shows that most of the lenders who made risky subprime loans were exempt from the Community Reinvestment Act. And many of the lenders covered by the law that did make subprime loans came late to that market — after smaller, unregulated players showed there was money to be made.

    Nearly $3 of every $4 in subprime loans made from 2004 through 2007 came from lenders who were exempt from the CRA law.

    State-regulated mortgage companies such as Irvine-based New Century Financial made just over half of all subprime loans. These companies, which CRA does not cover, controlled more than 60 percent of the market before 2006, when banks jumped in.

    Another 22 percent came from federally regulated lenders like Countrywide Home Loans and Long Beach Mortgage. These lenders weren’t subject to the law, though some were owned by banks that could choose to include them in their CRA reports.

    Here’s the deal, brainstems. THE CRA DOES NOT MANDATE LOANS. It’s a fair-lending law, that’s all. Even if 1/4 of the LOANS made were FROM loan providers subject to the CRA, it DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BAD LOANS WERE LOANS MADE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRA.

    And they weren’t.

    So I’ll ask again. And again.

    Give me some proof, some statement from a banking official, some data, ANYTHING that shows the CRA as being the cause of the mortgage meltdown.

    I’M WAITING, BRAINSTEMS.

  • Dino

    Yeah Chief, you know better than all the legitimate news sources we’ve posted. When do you get your Nobel Prize in Economics?

    Our paper here in Portland has a front page story about the meltdown and the foreclosures and features an area of McMansions where 1 in 5 is in foreclosure. I can assure you that none of the upper middle class buying these $400K-$500K homes was poor or got a loan from a bank due to the CRA.

    Kind of disturbing that someone who claims to do generous works for the poor through his church would be so dead set on blaming poor people for the mess we’re in. It’s not only weird, it’s kind of evil.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Dino. You now have created three false arguments.

    First:

    legitimate news sources

    Typical. You are the expert in identifying “legitimate” sources. How about debating the issue here: forcing banks to make loans to those people who would not qualify before the 1977 act.

    Second: Above. You created another term that I did not use

    blaming poor people

    See above. I said people who would not qualify for loans prior to the act.

    Third: Economics. Name the courses you have taken. I finished my EdS with a graduate level course in Business Economics. You attempted to disqualify me from even reading an article because I do not have a

    Nobel Prize in Economics?

    I would not accept one from that organization in any case, but apart from that, I made the points that the federal government required banks to make loans to unqualified persons.

    Finally, I just finished working several days last week in my church repairing and making arrangements to have some doors repaired by persons who were looking for cash. They found eighty-five cents in one secretary’s drawer after destroying three drawers. Pitiful.
    We have a local outreach for persons in need. The amount and numbers of persons is confidential.

    Blaming “the poor”? No. I blamed Jimmy Carter and the Democrats-socialists who passed a law requiring that they give away money in the form of loans to those persons who would not have qualified previously. The default rate of those forced loans was reported in USA Today to be around 40%.

  • Dino

    Well yes, Mickey, ignorance is bliss.

    Which makes you a very happy fellow.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    how the hell does he think we are going to pay for this?

    “We” stopped paying for things when Ronnie ran roughshod over our economy with voodoo.

    “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter”

    Dick Cheney

  • pparets

    Dang, Woof, too bad you don’t know as much about economics as you know about hot air.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    Dino. Sounds like you have some deep seated problems.

    lily white suburbs–eat you for lunch

    These problems did start 30 years ago, but with Jimmy Carter and the Reinvestment Act.

  • Dino

    Was walking the dog.

    You met my challenge? With that nutjob? Here’s a little something about Mr. DiLorenzo:

    Thomas J. DiLorenzo [professor of economics at Loyola College in Maryland and the author of The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War, (Three Rivers Press/Random House). His latest book is Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed To Know about Dishonest Abe (Crown Forum/Random House).

    That’s from your link. A link to LewRockwell.com, a right wing nutjob site.

    Good try but then, where’s the data? The ravings of a right wing libertarian lunatic who even goes after the republican hero Abraham Lincoln don’t suffice as proof of your theories that CRA broke us. He provided nothing but empty rhetoric, the kind posted by people just like you, pp.

    But let’s look at what you posted. If these bad subprime loans were so heavily CRA-dependent, why did it take THIRTY YEARS for the effects to be seen? Why in just the last 10 or so?

    What you and the other conservatives refuse to believe is the truth. The banks were alowed to collude with Wall Street once the republicans repealed the Glass-Stegall Act that had been in place since the Depression to avoid situations like the one we’re stuck in now. The banks unloaded all those subprime loans onto Wall Street who packaged and sold them to others. The banks and Wall Street found it all very lucrative until the music stopped. The whole scheme was riddled with fraud on the part of the BANKS and WALL STREET.

    The reason this didn’t happen in the many earlier years of the CRA or Freddie & Fannie’s existance is because we had a government that regulated the financial markets with mechanisms like Glass-Steagall. THE REPUBLICANS AND THE REPUBLICAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE REMOVED THOSE SAFEGUARDS.

  • di butler

    I said I found it pretty fair, I am not in some childish pissing contest with you, you goob. I have no idea about the person who wrote it, their affiliations or whatnot. Just thought it had some interesting points. Jeez, you need a Midol, in a bad way.

  • Dino

    Do you not see the steep climb in the debt under the last 3 republican Presidents?

    Are you blind? Do you not see how it leveled off under Clinton’s budget and tax policies?

    How does that support your contention that republicans are fiscally responsible?

  • di butler

    Actually, in his defense, I think it is just the camera angle on the desk, but he seems like he is shrinking. Is it me, or does he keep getting skinnier by the day? At this rate, he will be a skeletor on Inauguration Day. I think makbe it’s the huge sign/seal that is in weird proportion. The way the camera is, it looks huge, and his head looks like a dang peanut. I truly hope this plan goes by the wayside, who is going to pay for it? Are little monkeys printing money as we speak?

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    I would suggest that the burden to us all would be greater in the absense of SS. While you are blessed with your good fortune and will be able to invest/save for retirement, many millions of citizens will not.

    So it is a social program.

    Thanks for taking my side Ellinas.

    By the way I think you slackers should quit expecting everyone else to carry you.

  • Dino

    And unlike Dino, I love my independance, my freedom, my liberty from serfdom under which poor, pitiful Dino must suffer.

    Yeah, syn, you and a lot of others stand a good chance at finding out what serfdom means when you’re unemployed and suffering under our latest Republican-created Great Depression.

  • Spartacus

    “blown to bits”… interesting choice of words, considering what happened Sept. 11, 2001.

    you’re wearing out your knuckles for nothing Proof.

    legitimate news sources

    such as Rosie Odonnel have already proven fire has no effect upon steel…even iron age cave men know that, catch up with the 221st century B.C. knuckle dragger.

  • ellinas

    So it is a social program.

    Thanks for taking my side Ellinas.

    By the way I think you slackers should quit expecting everyone else to carry you.

    The Whistler on December 7, 2008 at 01:16 pm

    Was there any doubt as to what SS is for?

    You slackers? Wow! Be advised I retired at the ripe old age of fifty, and my retirement cost you nothing. Took care of myself, and family. Paying full tuition for my kid to go to the university (minus $15,000.00 scholarship) But if you insist in labeling people you do not know as slackers I can arrange for you to pay for his tuition through your taxes.Now go wash your mouth with some strong soap.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    So come on people. Let’s see that data on the CRA and all the bad loans it created. Come on. You don’t want to see my links anymore, let’s see your proof.

    By your own previously-posted figures, 20% (1 in 5) of the subprime loans were CRA loans.

    I’d say that makes the CRA a pretty big part of the problem. Not the only part, but a big part.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Yes, tax and spend (paygo) is better than cut taxes and spend.

    Paygo in practice is a joke. It’s so full of loopholes spending can be increased unchecked without any real need to “pay” for it.

    Now, I’ll agree with you that tax cuts should be coupled with spending cuts. But the reason why I don’t take you seriously is…you don’t want to cut spending. At all. You think we can just tax and spend and tax and spend and be ok.

    That’s not going to work, and if you’d stopped with your deranged “Goppers suck Democrats rule” schtick for two minutes you might get that.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Give us the data on how many subprime mortgages were CRA loans. Show us proof that the loan application standards were dropped due ot the CRA. Show us an interview, a statement, ANYTHING from the banking community that says they had to loan to poor people because they werre forced to. Show us all the poor people who bought McMansions in the suburbs of Phoenix, Las Vegas or Sacramento. Give us some data. If your version is the correct one, the data should be easy to find.

    I’ve written post after post explaining those very things, but you ignore them.

    And by the way, the problems in those links you keep tossing around have been pointed out repeatedly and you ignore them as well.

    We can lead you to the truth, I guess, but we can’t make you believe it.

    Do you not see the steep climb in the debt under the last 3 republican Presidents?

    Are you blind? Do you not see how it leveled off under Clinton’s budget and tax policies?

    How does that support your contention that republicans are fiscally responsible?

    Not all Republicans are conservatives. But debt is what happens when we cut taxes (a good thing) but keep spending (a bad thing).

    The point is: Spending is the problem, it doesn’t matter who is doing it. And of our spending problems, social spending is the biggest by far.

    Frankly, I don’t think you get to complain about Republican spending until you end your support for expanding entitlements and spending.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Some one has to pay for the spending your gop has done.
    It’s not like we can just print more money to pay the gop debt…oh wait a minute…

    Uh, right. And who wants more government spending?

    Nationalized health care? Bailouts for the labor unions and the corporations they’ve killed?

    Democrats. And yes, Republicans too.

    What you’re telling me is that tax and spend is better than cut-taxes and spend. Which is stupid.

    Neither is optional, and if you were capable of seeing politics as anything more than a football game between Democrats and “goppers” you’d get that.

    Too bad you aren’t smarter.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    We’re in a debate about American spending, Boob. Comparing our military spending to the rest of the world is meaningless.

    But if you want to make that comparison, our yearly bill for entitlements ways in at about $1.4 trillion. Which is about $200 billion more than the entire rest of the world (plus us) spends on all the wars and all the armies and all the navies and all the air forces.

    This really is a problem.

    Please link to my statements where I have written:

    Well, what spending cuts do you want outside of military?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Define social spending. Almost any way you define it, it’s a miniscule part of government spending.

    Military spending, in total, is under 5% as a total of GDP:

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Medicare and Social Security alone represent 7.5% of our GDP (both growing at a nasty annual clip), and overall social spending represents approximately 1/4th, or 25%, of our overall GDP.

    But go ahead and whine about spending on the soldiers (and the care and benefits for soldiers) that keep us safe so that layabouts get get free viagra.

  • WOOFX

    But what the hell does he know..

    Not much about American banks

    If they don’t comply, they face financial penalties and, worse yet, their business plans for mergers, branch expansions, etc. can be blocked by CRA

    All this time and nobodys been blocked

    Consequently, banks in every community in America have been forced to hold a portfolio of bad loans,

    Not CRA loans, which are performing loans,

    Has the Secretary of the Treasury, The president, The head of the SEC , the Federal Reserve , blamed the CDA?Answer;NO

    Only sad assed wingnuts crying to assign blame for their failed economic theories.

    Everyday you got the blues.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    rob,
    perhaps you forget, but the bush appointed successor to wolfowitz at the world bank was talking new deal jive last year.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    *shrugs*

    When have you known me to defend profligate spending by Republicans?

    I think the phenomena here is that Democrats are tax hikers. Yes, that leads to less deficits, but is taxing the hell out of everyone to fund ever-increasing spending really any healthier than deficits?

    We need to cut taxes…and cut spending.

    And I’ll take you seriously on budget issues when you start talking spending cuts with me. Starting with the biggest problem: social spending.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    “We” stopped paying for things when Ronnie ran roughshod over our economy with voodoo.

    Right.

    Because we’d never had a federal debt before until Reagan.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Dino, copy/pasting the same links over and over again and then calling people stupid when they don’t agree with you doesn’t make for a very convincing argument.

    In fact, your stupidity does more to make your ideological opponents look good than anything else.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Here’s the link for my Social Security/Medicare numbers above.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Create a SAB Readerblog


Recent Comments

Powered by Disqus

Blog Advice and Support
Installs and Upgrades
Theme Modifications
Custom Plugins
Theme Design
Conversions and Relocations
Hacked Site Recovery
Mobile Apps Development