Say Anything Blog

Redistribution is economic vengeance.  It is based on the Marxist “fixed pie” belief that those who have more got it by taking it from those who have less.  That is the justification for stealing from the achievers.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

“The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.”

Who recently said this?

Ooohhh…..the suspense is killing me Joel-sixpack…...whom?

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Hillary, known Marxist “fixed pie” thinker.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Make Me Some Pie

Uttered in a campaign speech By Michelle Obama only AFTER her husband, Barack, began winning.

“That is why I am here, because Barack Obama is the only person in this who understands that. That before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation.”

  “Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics.”

  “... as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station, you know.”

  “My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my ‘blackness’ than ever before.”

  “Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost.”

  “The truth is most Americans don’t want much. Folks don’t want the whole pie. Most Americans feel blessed to thrive a little bit, but that’s out of reach for them.

  The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.”

OMG Joel, you are right!!!!

WWJD??????

Telling one lie or even consistently lying about one subject…doesn’t make you a liar…

robert108 on May 18, 2009 at 03:23 pm

“You have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point.”

Titular gop Head Mr. Steele

Of course, the enviroassholes believe in the “shrinking pie”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The problem with liberals is that they assume that the pie always remains the same size.

If you raise the tax rate on the current level of GDP, you get more revenues for the Treasury.  Sounds simple enough.  But what it doesn’t take into account is that by raising marginal tax rates, you reduce the ROI for businesses to expand the businesses and this payrolls and thus the tax base.

So even though your marginal rate is higher, your pie is smaller and the total revenues shrink.

Liberals don’t get that.

Their real problem with economics is that they always use static analysis, which is bunk.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Of course, the enviroassholes believe in the “shrinking pie”.

Hey that’s a step up from “environazis”, i suppose.  Albeit not to classy of a word, and it certainly reflects his attitude to the T. 

I would like to see more display of this non Daily KOS attitude exhibited by the right wing.  It really shows us who the adults are in this bunch.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

No facts to refute anything I said, just squealing about my voicing my opinion of the jerks who have caused our high gas prices, high food prices and economic slowdown.  Nice.

If you ever have anything more than your self-centered, irrelevant opinions, let me know.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

So do we believe in the “shrinking pie” or that the pie stays the “same size”??

You guys confused me on what you tell me I believe. It is almost as if none of you asked for yourselves.  Can someone call Rush Limbaugh and ask him what it is I think please!

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I made it clear to those of average intelligence, but forgot to dumb it down enough for you, obviously:

Marxists=“fixed pie”

envirocriminals=“shrinking pie”

Get it?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Neo-Cons = If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it.

Telling one lie or even consistently lying about one subject…doesn’t make you a liar…

robert108 on May 18, 2009 at 03:23 pm

“You have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point.”

Titular gop Head Mr. Steele

It is based on the Marxist “fixed pie” belief that those who have more got it by taking it from those who have less.  That is the justification for stealing from the achievers.

j

Here is a hypothetical for you Robert.  I happen to do a lot of consulting work for a large utility here where i live.  We manage their infrastructure from everything to their SAN, Oracle Databases, Exchange QA, DEV. PRoduction environment, ect. ect.  When we make reccomendations on how they should set up their infrastructure so they can be effective at running their businesss.

Why is it fair that the new CEO they hired get’s a one million dollar signing bonus, before he has done anything, while the guys who develop and manage the shop make less than 100k a year?

Oh, and the guy before him got a 1.5 million dollar bonus to leave…..you know, for loosing the company money.  I think both of those bozo’s should pay taxes through the nose.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Looking back at the comments on this thread we see that the usual “progressive” lemmings have left the usual pile of snide remarks directed at those with whom they disagree, along with WOOF’s poor pictorial attempt at humor, but again, not one mention of Obama’s economic policies, not one attempt to defend or even explain the Democrats’ insatiable lust for raiding the economic achievement of our most productive citizens with more tax increases, and not one suggestion that those on the Left have any more of a clue about economic policy and taxes than they had when Jimmy Carter was in the White House.

All fluff… no substance.  Again!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

And for clarification, the guys who run and manage the shop who work for the utility make less than 100k….some of the outsourced help makes a bit more. 

They guy at the top just takes their reccomendations, that come from consultants and then gets a pat on the back for running things.  And his opinion constantly needs to be re-shaped by the guys below him.  It’s nuts brother.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

rbb comes up with his usual Jew hatred.  Actually, it’s
socialism-no one can afford it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Why is it fair that the new CEO they hired get’s a one million dollar signing bonus, before he has done anything, while the guys who develop and manage the shop make less than 100k a year?

H,

Why is this any of your business in the first place?

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

“If you talk to Warren [Buffet], he’ll tell you his preference is not to meddle in the economy at all — let the market work, however way it’s going to work, and then just tax the heck out of people at the end and just redistribute it,” Obama said. “That way you’re not impeding efficiency, and you’re achieving equity on the back end.”

This is the flawed premise; in fact, when you tax the heck out of people at the end, it changes how they act in the beginning.  The usual leftie mistake is to believe static analysis has any meaning in the free enterprise system. The only way he can control the entire process is to implement a totalitarian, command economic system.  In other words; “the dictatorship of the proletariat”.  The enviros want exactly the same thing, but they want to be the dictators, rather than the political class, like Obama wants.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

They guy at the top just takes their reccomendations, that come from consultants and then gets a pat on the back for running things.  And his opinion constantly needs to be re-shaped by the guys below him.  It’s nuts brother.

Another illustration of your complete ignorance of how business and economics work.  This is the usual Marxist claptrap about how only “workers” produce value.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Why is it fair to hire a guy with a million dollar signing bonus?  Because that’s what it takes to get the guy they want.

Why only pay 100K to the guys that run the shop?  Because that’s what they are worth in the marketplace.  If they were worth more they’d get it either at that company or another.

Why did they pay $1.5 million for the last guy to leave?  Because it was the cheapest way to get some fresh blood in the top job.  Apparently the company needs to adapt faster and this guy wasn’t doing the job.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I happen to do a lot of consulting work for a large utility here where i live.

Assuming you are telling the truth(highly unlikely, IMO), you are apparently unaware the so-called “public utilities” are socialist in nature, and are insulated by govt from market forces.  It is one of the distinguishing characteristics of socialist operations to be very administration top-heavy.
Sorry I had to tell you that.  All those wages are set by govt regulations, as is the return on investment.
If you don’t like the outcome, you should be campaigning for market forces to be restored to that operation.
If you had any sense, that is.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Anyone here ever notice that - no matter what the topic is - Hannitized always manages to be an expert of some kind?

Consulting, marine biology, power utilities, and on and on and on….

What a busy, busy chap he must be.

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

Typical narcissist; he’s willing to claim anything to get attention.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The problem with liberals is that they assume that the pie always remains the same size.

If you raise the tax rate on the current level of GDP, you get more revenues for the Treasury.  Sounds simple enough.  But what it doesn’t take into account is that by raising marginal tax rates, you reduce the ROI for businesses to expand the businesses and this payrolls and thus the tax base.

So even though your marginal rate is higher, your pie is smaller and the total revenues shrink.

Liberals don’t get that.

To liberals they think that success should be rewarded with their income being confiscated. If BHO gets the keys to the white house be very affraid. Both the Obama are morons; I mean marxists. This doesn’t not work in a capalistic society.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Why is this any of your business in the first place?

Well, they put the information in the news paper Bat.  What can I tell you.

Also, the guys they burn out by over working and underpaying end up leaving the company to another, that doesn’t.  We are one of the companies that supports them.  So for purposes of providing an example. We see that CEOs who fail, not only make too much but get paid lots and lots of money to leave.

It’s a good example of why some people who don’t really earn that money they get, should pay more than those who don’t get paid for what they are worth.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Another illustration of your complete ignorance of how business and economics work.  This is the usual Marxist claptrap about how only “workers” produce value.

So you think that CEO’s are IT experts and can tell their IT management and employees how to design and implement their data centers?  Ever tried moving and collapsing data centers?  Do you think a CEO knows how to look at reporting data of servers, make a recommendation on what needs to be refreshed vs. replaced with new technology, what applications can be virtualized (either hard partitioned or soft)?  What is the best option, blades or high end server with lots of CPU to take advantage of an new optimized VMWare kernel?  Dont think so.

Who do you think this highly paid CEO relies on to make a decision on how to do what they need to do?  Consultants.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Anyone here ever notice that - no matter what the topic is - Hannitized always manages to be an expert of some kind?

Consulting, marine biology, power utilities, and on and on and on….

Nice personal attack there PP.  I don’t blame you.  You are what you are.

And btw, I called Marine biology as a hobby as I had my own business importing and exporting marine aquarium fish and I used to have a second business building closed systems for sharks, living reefs and fish only tanks.  That was while i was in school.

You don’t need to be an expert in marine biology, but it helps.  You are going back to the whole nitrogen cycle thing and how it differs in fertilization vs. in the ocean. 

And I wasnt talking about power utilities my friend.  Although we do a lot of work for them as well.

What a busy, busy chap he must be.

Very busy, just as I assume most of you are.  You are doing a great job of lashing out PP.  I thought you were tougher.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

So you think that CEO’s are IT experts and can tell their IT management and employees how to design and implement their data centers?

You just made that up; I said nothing of the kind.  While claiming to be a consultant for a public utility, you are ignorant of how they are structured.
A CEO of a private enterprise company is fiscally responsible to his shareholders; your public utility administrators are probably political appointees.
Sorry I had to school you on that.

In private enterprise, without the CEOs, there would be no need for consultants.  Sorry you don’t know that.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The lie:

And I wasnt talking about power utilities my friend…

The truth:

I happen to do a lot of consulting work for a large utility here where i live.  We manage their infrastructure from everything to their SAN, Oracle Databases, Exchange QA, DEV. PRoduction environment, ect. ect.  When we make reccomendations on how they should set up their infrastructure so they can be effective at running their businesss.

Why is it fair that the new CEO they hired get’s a one million dollar signing bonus, before he has done anything, while the guys who develop and manage the shop make less than 100k a year?

Your entire rant was based on your claimed experience with a public utility.
Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Telecom is a utility, not a power utility.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

So, now you’re revising your initial statement?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

BTW, I never said “power utility”; you just made that up.  What I said was “public utility”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Also, the guys they burn out by over working and underpaying end up leaving the company to another, that doesn’t.  We are one of the companies that supports them.  So for purposes of providing an example. We see that CEOs who fail, not only make too much but get paid lots and lots of money to leave.

H,

First, nobody asked you for yet another tiresome lecture on your personal views on social justice.  Fact is, nobody much gives a shit.  What I asked was why it is any of your concern how and what a company pays its officers.  As I might have expected, you neglected to answer that question.

Second, your “example” has nothing to do with anything pertinent.  You now appear to be claiming that the subject newly hired CEO is a failure because some of the employees are burned out?  That is a specious and inordinately stupid assertion… even for you.  There is no demonstrated correlation between any of the nonsense you’ve posted here.  Much less anything approaching a rational, orderly, sequential train of thought.

It’s a good example of why some people who don’t really earn that money they get, should pay more than those who don’t get paid for what they are worth.

More irrational blather.  You have demonstrated nothing whatsoever beyond the obvious fact that you haven’t the faintest idea what you’re talking about… again!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I think you confused the words POWER and PUBLIC….....genius.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

r108: Save your breath! This guy makes up definitions as it suits him. He only appears as a lying troll to those who believe that words have meanings fixed in reality.

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

What I asked was why it is any of your concern how and what a company pays its officers.  As I might have expected, you neglected to answer that question.

I did answer the question you mental giant you.  I said THE INFORMATION WAS IN THE NEWS PAPER!!  Take it up with the news paper if you have a problem.

Second, your “example” has nothing to do with anything pertinent.

Except for that small point that some people don’t necessarily earn or deserve the ridiculous amount of money they get paid.  Right?

You now appear to be claiming that the subject newly hired CEO is a failure because some of the employees are burned out?

No, I claim that he gets a lot of money to be told what he needs to do by others who make a hell of a lot less than he does.

That is a specious and inordinately stupid assertion… even for you.

Only because you stupidly mischaracterize what you think I said.

There is no demonstrated correlation between any of the nonsense you’ve posted here.  Much less anything approaching a rational, orderly, sequential train of thought.

Go drink a cup of coffee or a RedBull and call me when you wake up you moron.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I think you confused the words POWER and PUBLIC….....genius.

Wrong again; it was you who changed “public utility” to “power utility”, then changed it to “Telecom” after getting busted for his ignorance.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

And why are you guys so focused on personal attacks instead of talking about the issues and the circumstance provided?

Could it be because you don’t have any argument?  I think so.  The word for your behavior is ad hominem. 

You guys are going nowhere fast.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Wrong again; it was you who changed “public utility” to “power utility”, then changed it to “Telecom” after getting busted for his ignorance.

My god you guys are brilliant.

I never said public utility, go back and look it up. or quote me.

PP, used the word power utility, not you.  I responded to him.

I narrowed it down to a telecom utility because you confused it with a power utility.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

And why are you guys so focused on personal attacks instead of talking about the issues and the circumstance provided?

Another lie from you; Obama’s Marxist tax plan has been thoroughly refuted.  Your lies and bullshit have been, as well.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

How do you guys get through the day?

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I narrowed it down to a telecom utility because you confused it with a power utility.

No, you first said “utility”, and when you were refuted, you changed it to “Telecom”, and now it’s “a telecom utility”.
Want to change your story some more?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

No, you first said “utility”,

Glad you admit that you were wrong and that I only said utility.  YES, I SAID UTILITY.  Phone service is a UTILITY, Peaches.

and when you were refuted, you changed it to “Telecom”

You confused me talking to PP about a “power utility”.....and then you got further confused by the word Public and power so I made it clear for you by telling you that Telecom is not a power utility.  It is not.

, and now it’s “a telecom utility”.

Telephone service is a utility.  Always was, always will be.

Want to change your story some more?

You are certifiable.  I can’t believe your buddies don’t try to bail you out.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

You confused me talking to PP about a “power utility”.

You lie again; you said “utility”, which generally means “public utility”.  You failed to catch it, so I assume I was right; then, when I schooled you on how wrong you were about the nature of management of public utilities, you changed your tune.  You first tried to bullshit about “Telecom”, and then changed it again to “telecom utility”.  You lied, got caught, then kept lying to cover your first lie.  Typical for you.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

And why are you guys so focused on personal attacks instead of talking about the issues and the circumstance provided?

The issue, MORON, was the tax and economic policies of the radical secular “O-messiah” your idiotic party is about to unwittingly nominate for President.  And you have yet to add anything meaningful, pertinent, knowledgeable, or interesting to that subject.

Instead, you have once again hijacked a thread about issues to offer up yet another dose of your uninformed, self-aggrandizing bullshit.

As expected!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

You lie again; you said “utility”, which generally means “public utility”. 

Only in your wild world of silly nonsense, perhaps.  But not in the real word Robby-boy.

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: electricity, natural gas, water and sewerage. Telephony services may also be included.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilities

You failed to catch it, so I assume I was right; then, when I schooled you on how wrong you were about the nature of management of public utilities

You confuse public sector vs. private.  A Telecom is a private sector public utility.

You first tried to bullshit about “Telecom”, and then changed it again to “telecom utility”.  You lied, got caught, then kept lying to cover your first lie.  Typical for you.

Ha!  You are the funniest thing since Marvin the Martian Robby.  I swear you are so delusional it is funny man!

I started with utility, Telecom is a utility (privately owned, public utility SERVICE) as it was in the end of our conversation.  I’m sorry Robert, but you are just way, way out in right field man.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

You confuse public sector vs. private. A Telecom is a private sector public utility.

I’m sorry, but you just illustrated your abysmal ignorance again; it’s either a private sector business, or it’s a public utility; it can’t be both.

If you were really a business consultant, you would have said so initially.  You’re just lying to cover your bullshit, once again. No private business calls itself a “utility”, moron.
If you really worked for a telecom company, you would know that it’s in the business of selling its equipment and service, not providing it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Universal health care is rationed health care. A better plan is to somehow get a fair cash rebate into everyones hands and let them purchase the health plan that best suits their needs.

Would someone tell Micheal Phelps to give up one of the Gold Medals he EARNED to the last place finisher in the preliminary heats so that loser can have MORE?

Why would anyone need more than one Gold medal?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I’m sorry, but you just illustrated your abysmal ignorance again; it’s either a private sector business, or it’s a public utility; it can’t be both.

Robert,

I feel like I am picking on a retarded person here for hammering this point. I really don’t want to do this, because it is so obvious that you are mentally unstable.

Scroll up!  I called and see where I identify it as a Public Utility Service (service being in CAPS).  A privately owned Telecom company IS STILL A UTILITY.  The telecom industry was busted wide open with the divestiture back in 84.

If you were really a business consultant, you would have said so initially.  You’re just lying to cover your bullshit, once again.

I have said from the beginning.  But I really don’t need to clear my credentials with you.  You would never believe it anyway, and you are not smart enough to know what a consultant is.

No private business calls itself a “utility”, moron.

Did you even read the Wikipedia information I provided, you drooling baboon?  You look like such an idiot it isn’t even funny.

Check out this company you twit:

UTILITY TELECOM Consulting Group Inc.!!!!!

How about UTILITY TELECOM COUNCIL?????

http://www.utc.org/

I swear…you are such a twad.
http://www.utcg.com/

If you really worked for a telecom company, you would know that it’s in the business of selling its equipment and service, not providing it.

I don’t “work for” a Telecom company anymore.  I “work with” a telecom company as a consultant.  I used to work for Worldcom, before they bought MFS, and then I moved over to UUNET, Who was bought by MFS, before WorldCom bought them!

In case you don’t know, Worldcom purchased MCI….as well.  They were one of the largest telecoms in the world, with the largest commercial internet backbone in the world.  And guess what?  We sold our SERVICE…..OUR UTILITY SERVICE!!!  That of the telephony kind as internet is not considered a utility.  Worldcom was also a privately owned utility service.

LORD!!!!

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I’m sorry, but you just illustrated your abysmal ignorance again; it’s either a private sector business, or it’s a public utility; it can’t be both.

Sorry, there is just too much stupidity here for words.  There was so much wrong with this statement, that I left some corrections out.

You say that it’s either a private sector business, or it is a “public” utility.  That’s wrong off the bat, but even still, at no point did I EVER say I consult for a Telecom “public utility”.  I said that the company was a privately owned public utility SERVICE.  Service being the operative word!

Again, refer to public Utility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilities

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: electricity, natural gas, water and sewerage. Telephony services may also be included.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

The issue, MORON, was the tax and economic policies of the radical secular “O-messiah” your idiotic party is about to unwittingly nominate for President.

Tax the rich….im on board with that.  Even though I will be taxed more!  Sue me.

And you have yet to add anything meaningful, pertinent, knowledgeable, or interesting to that subject.

I demonstrated millionaires make millions and sometimes don’t deserve it. or earn it.  You don’t like it so you call it uninteresting.  Yawn!

Instead, you have once again hijacked a thread about issues to offer up yet another dose of your uninformed, self-aggrandizing bullshit.

Blah, blah, blah….don’t hate me because I am beautiful.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I said that the company was a privately owned public utility…

No, you said you worked for “a utility”.  Again, if it’s privately owned, it isn’t “a public utility”.  It’s the difference between the private sector and the public sector.  You are more ignorant than you originally appeared to be.
I know your entire story is a lie, and you just can’t stop lying to try to cover that up.

I don’t hate you; I pity you.  Your combination of narcissism, arrogance and ignorance is anything but “beautiful”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Hannitized,
If you hate capitalism, why not just say so. I’m not being snarky…just say “I’m a socialist” - it’s okay. I’m a Conservative who thinks abortion is abhorrent, but says if you’re comfortable killing a baby it’s on you; one who could care less about gay marriage; I’m a volunteer greenie (I think the environmental movement is almost totally comprised of 60’s retreads and anti-capitalists and collectivists. But, I dig conservation and green building and permeable streets and rain gardens, etc.); I’m for low taxes because they encourage investment and growth in this country, and free people from the most oppressive jackboot the government has on your neck- the ability to steal you money, and hence your time; and I’m for a strong national defense, and of course a few other odds and ends as concerns - that’s pretty much where I stand. So, why not just say what you’re for. I keep thinking the same thing about Barry, For Pete’s sake Barry, just come out and be honest and say you’re a socialist.

You don’t like a CEO making the kind of money he makes, and I too think it sounds crappy when some total under-achiever gets a massive golden parachute. But do you really want the government deciding what’s too much. Because that will apply to everybody: Mr. Clooney, your movies have been absolute shit and lost money, we’re going to have to take back X amount of dollars. Same with the professional athletes, other entertainers, blah, blah, blah. Mr. Hannitized, after a brief generic analysis the Labor Politburo has decided you’re making too much compared to Worker x, sorry, but your losing $20K a year. Of course, our current system has the ability to make those decisions based on merit/the going market rate. Are you seriously more comfortable with some lifelong civil servant who’s likely not subject to those influences making those kinds of decisions.And you act like CEOs work 40 hours a week. Do you really think the janitor works the same kinds of hours or lives with the same kinds of pressures or has to deal with the liability, etc., that the top guys do.

And Woof, the Cartman doesn’t have the same kind of panache it usually does when you get the “respect my authoriTIE.”

“Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.”

No, you said you worked for “a utility”.  Again, if it’s privately owned, it isn’t “a public utility”.

What you said is moronic Robert.  Of course a privately owned company can be a utility!  I said it was a utility and it is.  I also said it was a public utility SERVICE…..and it is.  Just look it up.

Why are you ignoring the Wikipedia data? 

Why are you ignoring the links where there are TELECOM UTILITY Consultants and UTILITY TELECOM COUNCIL??????

You look like a complete fool, because you are.  You need to admit you are wrong or you will continue to look like an idiot.

Further, do you think the PUC looks into the Telecom’s here on our island?  Telecoms such as Oceanic/Time Warner and Hawaiian Telecom and Pacific Light Net, yes or no?  The answer is yes.  Because why?  They are a public utility service!!!!  You idiot!

http://www.puc.hawaii.gov/dockets/HT%20Weekly%20Update%2002-22-07%20FINAL.pdf

It’s the difference between the private sector and the public sector.  You are more ignorant than you originally appeared to be.

Dude.  Even Hawaiian Electric Company, the only Electric company in Hawaii is a private company!!!  The PUC also checks on them!

Hawaiian Electric Company Inc.
Private Subsidiary, Headquarters Location
PO Box 2750, Honolulu, HI96813-2919, United States
(808)543-7771, http://www.heco.com/
Primary SIC: Electric Services, Primary NAICS: Electric Power Distribution
Description: Utilities: Electric services.

Robert, I am handily serving you your ass right now.  In fact, I have to go pretty soon because I am taking my customer (who is also my friend), the UTILITY, golfing today!!

I just gave you proof the only electric company on Island is a private company, the PUC looks into all Telecom’s on island and definitions that TELECOM is a public utility service.

You can not argue this anymore unless you are a complete twit. So please, argue it and prove that you are!!!

I know your entire story is a lie, and you just can’t stop lying to try to cover that up.

Dude!!!  I love that you just can’t believe that I know so much more than you.  But guess what?  I do!

I don’t hate you; I pity you.  Your combination of narcissism, arrogance and ignorance is anything but “beautiful”.

Dude….sorry….but I am what I am, and you just can’t admit it to yourself that I am all that I say I am.  I am popeye the sailor man…sorry…i couldn’t resist.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Oh and Robert, here is the link to Goliath, they do reports and can tell you who is private vs. public.

This is the link that showed our only electric company is a private company and of course it is a public utility.  You complete drooling baboon!

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000323462-page.html

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

This is the link that showed our only electric company is a private company and of course it is a public utility. Does it have any competition, or is it really a govt-enabled monopoly?  If so, it isn’t in the free market, and it doesn’t have to obey market rules, like a real private business would.  It gets a guaranteed return on its investment, through manipulation of its rates by the govt. You complete drooling baboon!  Nice adolescent touch, sonny.

If I’m really a “complete drooling baboon”, and I know so much more about the subject than you do, what does that make you?  Arrogance and ignorance, your favorite combination.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

You look like a complete fool, because you are. You need to admit you are wrong or you will continue to look like an idiot.

Actually, the fact that you have changed your story so many times makes you look like a little kid making up stories to make himself look like he knows more than he actually does.
Typical narcissism.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert do you concede that:

1.  The utility I work with can be a private company, yes or no?

2.  Telecoms are a public utility service, yes or no?

3.  Public utilities can be privately owned companies, yes or no?

I know so much more about the subject than you do, what does that make you?

What do you know Robert?  So far you missed all of these facts:

1. Privately owned companies can be utilities.

2. Privately owned utilities can be public utility services

3. Telecoms can be a utility

4. Telecoms are public utility services

5. Public utilities can include things like:

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: electricity, natural gas, water and sewerage. Telephony services may also be included.

6. and more..

Does it have any competition, or is it really a govt-enabled monopoly? 

It is a private company that has no government “enabling”.  It is a private company dude.

Just so you know that was a question, you asked, not a statement.  So you don’t KNOW anything yet.  You won’t until you look it up yourself or until I tell you.  That makes me more knowledgeable on the subject.  Sorry bud.

If so, it isn’t in the free market, and it doesn’t have to obey market rules, like a real private business would.

It has no competition but it has to provide electricity to all of Hawaii’s islands and it has to do it in a way where they can stay in business.  Even though electricity cost in Hawaii are the highest in the United States, they can’t rape us on pricing…that is what the PUC helps regulate.

http://www.puc.hawaii.gov/PUC-%20Energyregulated.htm

Hawaii Public Utilities Commission (PUC)  regulates all franchised or certificated public service companies operating in the State; prescribes rates, tariffs, charges and fees; determines the allowable rate of earnings in establishing rates; issues guidelines concerning the general management of franchised or certificated utility businesses; and acts on requests for the acquisition, sale, disposition or other exchange of utility properties, including mergers and consolidations.  *  Hawaii PUC Annual Reports :  *

You are getting smashed Robert, just concede.

It gets a guaranteed return on its investment, through manipulation of its rates by the govt.

Then you don’t know what ROI is.  Because the government can not guarantee a profit to HECO.  HECO has to maintain the equipment, build new power plants, pay their employees.

You just DO. NOT. KNOW.  WHAT.  YOU.  ARE.  TALKING.  ABOUT.

http://www.puc.hawaii.gov/PUC-%20Energyregulated.htm

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

makes you look like a little kid making up stories to make himself look like he knows more than he actually does.

A little kid or Algore.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Personal attacks aside, Robert will refuse to answer the yes or no questions.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

H boy: I won’t answer your stupid, agendized questions; I prefer to stick with the facts.

When are you going to stop beating your boyfriend?  Answer that.

One more time, moron; a company, even if its nominally owned by private citizens, is a public utility if it enjoys monopoly protection by govt.  If govt prohibits competition, that gives the “private” company insulation from market forces, since the consumers have no choices.  In this situation, the usual rules of economics don’t apply to such a company, and it ceases to be fiscally responsible.  It is the competiton for profit that assures quality at the lowest price for the consumer.
Your calling a private company a “utility company” is about as idiotic as calling Circuit City a “utility company” because it sells appliances.s You just don’t know what you’re talking about, which is nothing new for you.  You got caught making up a story to make yourself look like an adult, and now you’re squealing one lie after another to try to escape from your initial lie.  Pathetic.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

It has no competition After spewing out a mountain of irrelevant bullshit, you finally answer the question. but it has to provide electricity to all of Hawaii’s islands and it has to do it in a way where they can stay in business. If there’s no competition, how could they go out of business, moron? Even though electricity cost in Hawaii are the highest in the United States, they can’t rape us on pricing…that is what the PUC helps regulate. The PUC sets the price, just like in any socialist system.  If there was competition, rates would be lower than under govt fiat.  That’s what market forces do.

Here’s where your lack of economics shows through.  Your socialist programmers have filled your head with lies, and you don’t even know it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Your calling a private company a “utility company” is about as idiotic as calling Circuit City a “utility company”

Do you realize how crazy you sound?  Seriously dude.  You just proved what a complete idiot you are.  I hope your friends read this because this destroys any credibility they might have imagined you had.

So you are now denying that Hawaii’s electric company is a utility company and that our telecoms are utility companies?????  SERIOUSLY??? 

YOU.  HAVE.  GOT.  TO.  BE.  KIDDING.  ME!!!!

I won’t answer your stupid, agendized questions;

I knew you wouldn’t.  I predicted that because you know I handed you your ass. 

Now you are clinging to the Electric Company example and distracting from the Telecom example, who has lots of competition.

One more time, moron; a company, even if its nominally owned by private citizens, is a public utility if it enjoys monopoly protection by govt.

Question: Which company that was mentioned enjoys government protection from competition? 

Answer: NONE OF THEM! 

The only reason we don’t have a viable competitor is because nobody is investing money, you dolt.

And how does that resolve the question about the Telecom utility, that enjoys plenty of competition?  It doesn’t!

If govt prohibits competition, that gives the “private” company insulation from market forces, since the consumers have no choices. 

The government does not prohibit competition!!!  The government does not prohibit competition.  The government does not prohibit competition.

Did it sink in yet?

You just don’t know what you’re talking about, which is nothing new for you. You got caught making up a story to make yourself look like an adult, and now you’re squealing one lie after another to try to escape from your initial lie. 

OMG…..dude.  You need schooling and therapy.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

If there’s no competition, how could they go out of business, moron?

OK, I didn’t want to go back to your moronic ROI statement, because you are so fucking dumb, that you are clearly not capable to handle that.  If you don’t know that private companies can be utilities, how can any mature adult have a serious with you????

The answer is they cant.  Any discussion with you is a fruitless exercise in verbal masturbation.

For anyone who is intelligent, I offer this bit of information.

The PUC prescribes rates, tariffs, charges and fees; determines the allowable rate of earnings in establishing rates.  This does not mean they guarantee the company will be profitable, but that it’s service has a certain amount of profit.

With that said, the electric company has to use that certain amount of money to re-invest and maintain it’s infrastructure. 

Now HECO has to be able to provide service to all houses, apts. condos, ect. ect. in Hawaii.  To build infrastructure, maintain it and staff the people to manage it might cost more than they profit. 

For the life of me I can’t imagine that someone could be so stupid as to not get that.

The PUC sets the price, just like in any socialist system.  If there was competition, rates would be lower than under govt fiat.  That’s what market forces do.

So you are saying we have a socialist system in America?  Wow!

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

So you are now denying that Hawaii’s electric company is a utility company and that our telecoms are utility companies????? SERIOUSLY???

No, idiot!  You started your little story by claiming you worked for “a utility company” and then claiming that it gave you some ability to know how that company should be managed. I pointed out that utility companies aren’t in the private sector, and that their administrative salaries are always inflated, which is typical of socialist enterprise.  You then changed your story to being that your “utility company” was really in private enterprise, but got caught in that lie by finally admitting that it has no competition.  It’s hard to keep track of all the lies in your convoluted story, but then you changed it to Telecom, which then transformed itself into “a telecom utility”.  What got lost in your web of lies is the fundamental truth that the management style of a company is dependent upon whether it is subject to market forces or not, which you never answered(probably because you just don’t know). Now, you’ve changed your story again, and are squealing about a power utility company that is under the PUC(Public Utilities Commission), which is definitely involved with “public utilities”, which is what I said in the first place.
The bottom line here is, despite all your lies and phony stories, public utility companies are not the same as private companies, and thus have different criteria for choosing managers.  With a guaranted rate of return, public utilities don’t have to be fiscally responsible, nor do they have to be competitive, so competent management is not necessary.  Thus the hiring of “trained monkeys”(what real managers call consultants) to do most of the work.  In the competitive private sector, however, competent people are offered a position with the company, and “trained monkeys” are only used occasionally.
I realize you don’t know any of this, which is very sad.
Once again, you attempt to draw attention to yourself by lying and making up stories.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Clearly this post proves that brain trust and intellectual capital resides with the left.  Thank you for playing Robert.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

The PUC prescribes rates, tariffs, charges and fees; determines the allowable rate of earnings in establishing rates. This does not mean they guarantee the company will be profitable, but that it’s service has a certain amount of profit.  Your last statement is a direct contradiction.

I already said that public utilities have a guaranteed profit on their investment, and you just agreed with me.  This is why they really aren’t like private companies in a free market situation.
You continue to display your abysmal ignorance.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Thank you for playing Robert.

It is you who are playing around, telling fantastic lies; I’m telling the truth.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert,

Be prepared to eat crow.  Why you never clicked on my link I will never know.  Here you go SON!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilities

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies.

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: electricity, natural gas, water and sewerage. Telephony services may also be included.

In the United States of America they are often natural monopolies because the infrastructure required to produce and deliver a product such as electricity or water is very expensive to build and maintain.[1] As a result, they are often government monopolies, or if privately owned, the sectors are specially regulated by a Public Utilities Commission.

Developments in technology have eroded some of the natural monopoly aspects of traditional public utilities. For instance, electricity generation, electricity retailing, telecommunication and postal services have become competitive in some countries and the trend towards liberalization, deregulation and privatization of public utilities is growing, but the network infrastructure used to distribute most utility products and services has remained largely monopolistic.

Public utilities can be privately owned or publicly owned. Publicly owned utilities include cooperative and municipal utilities. Municipal utilities may actually include territories outside of city limits or may not even serve the entire city. Cooperative utilities are owned by the customers they serve. They are usually found in rural areas. Private utilities, also called investor owned utilities, are owned by investors.[ citation needed ] Unlike private companies, private utilities may be listed on the stock exchange.[ citation needed ] Private, in this context, means not owned by the public or the government.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies

Even the words you parrot agree with me.  All of this is a distraction from my original truth, which you tried to deny with your made-up story:  Management styles differ between a public utility and a private business, so your original comments were bullshit.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert, that last wikipedia information just crushed every single point you made and proved me right in ever single instance.

You are so desperate to deny me the reality that I am exactly what I say I am that you deny reality all together.  This is how you view life and politics too by they way.

I have just demonstrated your commitment to denial and to avoid reality.  Well done on helping me out with it.

I already said that public utilities have a guaranteed profit on their investment,

You idiot.  I never used the word investment.  The optimal word is investment you idiot.  The PUC does not guarantee ROI….you don’t know what ROI is…stop using the term.

The PUC offers a set profit on it’s SERVICE…...not it’s investment.  They still need to make the investment.  The investments they need to make can and does often cost more than they make annually.  This is why they have budgets.  CAPEX vs. OPEX.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!

and you just agreed with me.  This is why they really aren’t like private companies in a free market situation.

Please, please, please read wikipedia!!!!

You continue to display your abysmal ignorance.

Dude, you need therapy. 

I have to go play golf with my customer (and friend) who works for a privately owned utility that I consult for.  These great guys offer a public utility service that enjoys lots of competition and they struggle to keep their head afloat.  In fact, they lost money last quarter.  So much for the “fair market laws”.

The privately owned public utility HECO, has no competition and they tend to be more profitable.  Imagine that???

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Hannitized said:

I work with a utility.

Wiki says:

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service

Hannitized said:

The utility is a telecom, not a power utility:

Wiki says:

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: electricity, natural gas, water and sewerage. Telephony services

Hannitized said:

The utility I work with provides a public utility service.

Wiki said:

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure)

Hanitized said:

A public utility can be a privately owned company.

Wiki said:

Public utilities can be privately owned or publicly owned.

Hannitized said:

Privately owned public utilities are regulated by the PUC.

Wiki said:

if privately owned, the sectors are specially regulated by a Public Utilities Commission.

Robert said:

Your calling a private company a “utility company” is about as idiotic as calling Circuit City a “utility company

Wiki said:

Public utilities can be privately owned or publicly owned.

Robert said:

...but you just illustrated your abysmal ignorance again; it’s either a private sector business, or it’s a public utility; it can’t be both.

Wiki said:

Public utilities can be privately owned or publicly owned.

Robert said:

No private business calls itself a “utility”, moron.

Wiki says:

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure).

Public utilities can be privately owned or publicly owned.

Robert said:

If you really worked for a telecom company, you would know that it’s in the business of selling its equipment and service, not providing it.

Wiki said:

The term utilities can also refer to the set of services provided by these organizations consumed by the public: Telephony services

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure).

To sum it up….I KICKED YOUR ASS.

Going to golf now.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

To sum it up….I KICKED YOUR ASS.

Wrong again, moron!  Your little story was to justify your criticism of the management of the utility you claimed to work for, and I told you, correctly, that utilities are govt enabled monopolies(that means “one seller”, for you ignoramuses), and so the management is typical of socialism, not normal private business.  You were wrong, I was right, and your mountain of lies can’t cover that up.

Your little parrot performance just demonstrates your own ignorance, H.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The PUC offers a set profit on it’s SERVICE…...not it’s investment.

After your mountain of lies, now you try to play semantic games; the return is guaranteed, otherwise they couldn’t afford to provide the service, moron!  Without a guaranteed ROI, they couldn’t pay the interest on their loans, and that interest is one of their operating expenses.  Dumb, dumb, dumb!
You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

None of this has anything to do with Obama’s commie tax plan, btw.  Nice distraction, as usual, H.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Retarded Robert says:

I told you, correctly, that utilities are govt enabled monopolies(that means “one seller”, for you ignoramuses), and so the management is typical of socialism, not normal private business.  You were wrong, I was right, and your mountain of lies can’t cover that up.

Hey idiot.  This privately owned Telecom is a utility and it has LOTS of competition.  You hung on to that as your last salvation, and you are wrong on that as well. 

You are such a tool it isn’t even funny.  You have no credibility as you are clearly a moron.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Your little story was to justify your criticism of the management of the utility you claimed to work for, and I told you, correctly, that utilities are govt enabled monopolies(that means “one seller”, for you ignoramuses), and so the management is typical of socialism, not normal private business.  You were wrong, I was right, and your mountain of lies can’t cover that up.

And you are wrong on that as well. 

They management is nothing but over paid goons who failed and were paid millions to leave.  That is the problem when you introduce divestiture….you get really cheap product and over paid goons at the top who screw everything up.  See Bernie Ebbers. 

If it was a true public utility that was run by the state (and it is not), perhaps it would have a chance at managing its money better?  As it stands now, this guy who works for the private utility gets paid too much while who do the real work, get the short end of the stick.

The Telecom utility is a privately owned company with lots of competition and so you are wrong, wrong, wrong…...AND a moron.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

They management is nothing but over paid goons who failed and were paid millions to leave. That is the problem when you introduce divestiture…

No; that’s the problem with all govt-controlled enterprises; the management has no incentive to be profitable, so they are usually overpaid, incompetent political appointees.

If it was a true public utility that was run by the state (and it is not), perhaps it would have a chance at managing its money better?

No difference who is called the owner; as long as the State controls the outcome, the inefficiency is built in.
This is why the free enterprise system beats socialism every time.

If this “Telecom utility”(another change in your little story) is a private business in a truly free market, it’s a private business, not a “public utility”.  Just read any good econ book, and you will not sound like so much of an arrogant ignoramus.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

You are such a tool it isn’t even funny. You have no credibility as you are clearly a moron.

Every time your little story gets busted, you change it to try to cover your bullshit.  Just keep lying; your comment about management doesn’t apply to private enterprise, so you demonstrate your ignorance; and you keep lying, which illustrates your dishonesty.

Educate yourself.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert,

You are just plain wrong on the facts.  This isn’t a discussion on political theories, its a discussion in reality.  You can’t play your cheap little tricks on this one!!

Let’s prove how much of an idiot you are.

No; that’s the problem with all govt-controlled enterprises; the management has no incentive to be profitable, so they are usually overpaid, incompetent political appointees.

The specific company we are talking about isn’t a government-controlled enterprise, peaches.  So all of your points are meaningless.  You keep ignoring that fact so you can pretend to yourself that you are not having your ass handed to you.  This demonstrates what how delusional you can be.  Stop doing this to yourself man, I feel bad for you.

No difference who is called the owner; as long as the State controls the outcome, the inefficiency is built in.

You see how you ignore reality so that you can have an argument?  I gave you a clear example that proves the point I was making, so you refuse to accept the reality in order to have an argument.  Well…read it and weep my friend:

“I’m going to focus on making sure that we build the trust of each employee and each customer one by one,” Yeaman, 40, said. “This company has been through a lot, and our employees and customers are top priority.”

Robert F. Reich, who has served as interim chief financial officer since March 7, has been appointed the company’s chief financial officer. He previously was vice president, controller and treasurer for McLeodUSA.

Alan M. Oshima, currently the company’s general counsel, will become a senior advisor to the company and join the board. James A. Attwood, Jr., global head of the telecommunications and media group at The Carlyle Group, has been named vice chairman of the board and chairman of the executive committee.

Hawaiian Telcom, which has 1,500 employees in Hawaii, was bought by Washington D.C.-based private equity firm The Carlyle Group, in May 2005 for $1.6 billion, and began operating independently with its own systems in April 2006.

Hawaiian Telcom lost $320.3 million in its first two years of operation from 2005 to 2006.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/05/05/daily56.html

Awwww….did you read that reality Robert??  Who is the Carlyle Group???

The Carlyle Group
Established in 1987, The Carlyle Group is a private global investment firm that originates, structures and acts as lead equity investor in management-led buyouts, strategic minority equity investments, equity private placements, consolidations and buildups, and growth capital financings.

See that word…“PRIVATE”????

How much money do these genisuses who loose hundreds of millions of dollars get for their great job?

Novolipetsk Steel to Acquire John Maneely Company from The Carlyle Group for US$3.53 billion

Tax him….

---

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Awwww….did you read that reality Robert??  Who is the Carlyle Group???

The Carlyle Group
Established in 1987, The Carlyle Group is a private global investment firm that originates, structures and acts as lead equity investor in management-led buyouts, strategic minority equity investments, equity private placements, consolidations and buildups, and growth capital financings.

See that word…“PRIVATE”????

How much money do these genisuses who loose hundreds of millions of dollars get for their great job?

This guys lost the company over a hundred million in just two years!!

He should pay more than most people in his taxes.  And the guy he didn’t pay enough for should pay less taxes, or get a higher salary, because guys like this just don’t earn their money sometimes.

World’s oldest startup

Hawaiian Telcom is refashioning
itself from a 120-year-old
utility into a 21st century
telecommunications company

Nearly five months after the deal closed, the new Verizon Hawaii, which was rebranded this year as Hawaiian Telcom, is beginning to answer the question, showing glimpses of what it might become.

Since May 2, Hawaiian Telcom has started a new wireless phone company and long-distance service, and is rolling out products that leverage and converge its land-line, wireless and Internet systems.

The company has forged partnerships with local media and entertainment companies to distribute homegrown digital content to customers.

And after years during which Verizon Hawaii stood mute while Oceanic Time Warner Cable aggressively marketed its Road Runner cable Internet service as superior to Verizon’s DSL service, Hawaiian Telcom is beginning to fight back with advertising poking fun at Road Runner.

Underlying all of this is a $100 million back-office computer system and new customer-support services, which, when completed early next year, will integrate Hawaiian Telcom’s systems and provide locally based customer support.

The apparent paradox of a 120-year-old utility company refashioning itself into an aggressive, 21st century telecommunications outfit isn’t lost on Mike Ruley, Hawaiian Telcom’s chief executive, who has described the company as “the world’s oldest startup.”

What Hawaiian Telcom has done so far, Ruley said, is just the tip of the iceberg.

So I know you are too stupid to get it Robert, so let me splain it to you.

A utility that delivers telephony service can be privately owened.  The difference between a utility and a telecom is that in “the olden days” you had utilities only deliver either local dial tone or long distance. 

With the divestiture, that I told you about that occured in 84, the world changed and traditional phone companies became TELECOMs…...because they did more than one thing. 

Some offered Local and Long distance (pac bell), some offered local long distance and internet (Worldcom).  Some started offering local, long distance, internet, cell phone, ect. ect. 

As I told you earlier, internet is not considered a utility, neither are cell phones.  That is why companies like Hawaiian Telecom are Telecom utilities, because they also offer LOCAL DIAL TONE….and they are the predominant company that owns all of the CENTRAL OFFICES.  So they deliver last mile connectivity for all the other telecoms like Oceanic, Pacific LightNet, ect. ect. because all of the other companies re-sell or use their infrastructure as they were once the monopoly.

Read Wikiepedia, it explains everything to you that I have been try to for days now.

But you wont get it, because you are that dumb!

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Read Wikiepedia, it explains everything to you that I have been try to for days now.

Actually, only the truly dumb believe that Wiki is an accurate or complete source of anything at all.  All you have been doing for days now is lying about yourself and making up story after story.  You base your hate for big business on Marxist talking points, since you have no real knowledge of actual economics.  Your bullshit is obvious to everyone but you.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert F. Reich…

A certified moron from the Clinton administration.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

H: Instead of polluting your tiny brain with Wiki, try reading some real economics; I suggest something by Milt Friedman; he and his wife originally were economists for the commie New Deal, then he saw the light and went “free people making free choices”.  He knows how both sides work.  You might learn something…

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert,

GOTCHA!!!!

I was waiting for you to bust out that excuse.  Here you go son!

Actually, only the truly dumb believe that Wiki is an accurate or complete source of anything at all.

I knew you would be stupid enough to make that argument.  So I have been sitting on this for two days waiting…....so, here is the Encyclopedia Britannica telling you that you are an idiot.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/482523/public-utility

public utility

enterprise that provides certain classes of services to the public, including common carrier transportation (buses, airlines, railroads, motor freight carriers, pipelines, etc.); telephone and telegraph; power, heat, and light; and community facilities for water, sanitation, and similar services. In most countries such enterprises are state-owned and state-operated, but in the United States they are mainly privately owned and are operated under close governmental regulation.

Did you see the part where they say in the US the public utilities are mainly PRIVATELY OWNED??????

I keep handing you your ass, over and over.  And you just keep denying fact, after fact, after fact.

This proves that you have absolutely ZERO credibility.  Because you will lie and squirm your way out of all reality to try and convince your superiors that you are right, when in fact you are only delusional.

You base your hate for big business on Marxist talking points, since you have no real knowledge of actual economics.

So to you our country is a Marxist government, which further proves nobody should take you seriously, about anything.

And I don’t hate big business. I hate idiots who make more than they deserve and I hate them even more when they underpay their staff, who actually earns their living by keeping the company up and running.

Which only proves Obama is right.  We should tax the rich.  Especially guys like that CEO who lost millions and walked away with them for having done so!

I love big business because it puts money in my pocket.  Because big business relies on consultants to for business continuity planning.

All you have been doing for days now is lying about yourself and making up story after story.

Oh I bet it realllllly chaps your ass that I am what I say I am.  Because it destroys all of the fantasy you have built up in your head about me.  You have to deny the reality in which I live so you can live comfortably in yours.  That is pathetic Robert.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Lamest thread ever… and the most pointless.

Did you see the part where they say in the US the public utilities are mainly PRIVATELY OWNED??????

Moron: I say again, it doesn’t matter who owns a govt-enabled monopoly utility company; it doesn’t operate in the free market like a real business.  That is the important point, and you are too stupid or too dishonest to get it.  Again, management style(which you claim to know so much about, which is obviously another lie) is different in a competitive, for profit business than it is in a govt-enabled monopoly.  If you don’t know that, you are too stupid for words.
I have no fantasies about you; you have fantasies about yourself and your “knowledge”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

H:  I think 108 has the right of it here.  Even privately owned utilities, wherever they may be, are almost always governed by a public utilities commission or other regulatory agency.

  The city council on which I serve has several regulatory contracts with privately owned companies whose cell-phone towers are located on public land within our city and with a privately-owned water company.

  All privately-owned utility companies expect to deal with state and local regulators.

  Do we impinge on their profits?  Not at all! They approached us to use our land in order to make money. For that privilage, we recieve service fees. It’s a win/win situation.

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

I demonstrated millionaires make millions and sometimes don’t deserve it. or earn it.  You don’t like it so you call it uninteresting.  Yawn!

Now, this is an interesting assertion.  Wrong, of course, since you’ve demonstrated nothing, proved nothing, and actually did nothing beyond offer an accusation, based on personal partisan BS instead of any sort of proven or documented fact.

Still, the godawful presumptuousness of what you say is telling.  To say that someone does or does not deserve something… anything… is a subjective judgment.  For example, does Alex Rodriguez deserve $30 million per year?  Does Bill Gates deserve to be worth $55 billion?  Did “Tookie” Williams deserve to be executed for his crimes?  Does the state of Israel deserve to survive?  Did George W. Bush deserve to be president?

Obviously, its not just your conclusions that are wrong, but your entire thought process (if that’s really the correct description!)

Nowhere in federal tax law does it say that taxes are to apportioned based on the presumption (wrong-headed and unsubstantiated) that some people may not deserve what they are paid.  That’s the sort of childish blather that marks the Left’s approach to punishing those with the temerity to disagree.  But it is neither legal nor rational.

But, the stupidity of your argument aside, I’m interested in the fact that you’ve once again refused to address the fundamental question of why increase taxes when it has been shown that doing so has an adverse effect on the nation’s economic growth.  Your pointless, personal anecdotes aside, you have yet to give any sort of satisfactory answer to the simple question of why Democrats are so determined to raise all sorts of taxes despite the economic consequences.

Personally, I don’t think you’re smart enough to handle that question capably, but it should be amusing to watch you try to prove me wrong!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I say again, it doesn’t matter who owns a govt-enabled monopoly utility company; it doesn’t operate in the free market like a real business. 

I say again and again, the telecom is not a government enabled monopoly.  There are at least 3 other telecoms for customers to choose from and indeed, Oceanic Time Warner has been dominating.

You are desperately clinging to a point that has no relevance.

Again, management style(which you claim to know so much about, which is obviously another lie) is different in a competitive, for profit business than it is in a govt-enabled monopoly.

We are talking about a for profit business you idiot.  You have no more argument left to debate.  It’s over pal.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

There are at least 3 other telecoms for customers to choose from and indeed,Oceanic Time Warner has been dominating.

Your story started out with you claiming to work for “a utility”, and has now morphed and changed into this.  A business is a business, and a utility is a service.  Get the difference?  As usual, you are piling one lie on top of another to defend your original lie, and now you are trying to make this a semantic argument.  In reality, you know nothing about business, and have no qualifications to make judgments about your betters.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

PP,

You should read the thread before you jump in an with both feet, without a life vest.

I think 108 has the right of it here.  Even privately owned utilities, wherever they may be, are almost always governed by a public utilities commission or other regulatory agency

.

I have been arguing that point for over 3 days now.  Robert has been so insistant that telecoms can’t be a utility.  Yet he can’t explain why the PUC regulates them.

You should read the thread before you choose a side, because you just picked mine.

The city council on which I serve has several regulatory contracts with privately owned companies whose cell-phone towers are located on public land within our city and with a privately-owned water company.

And?  What relevance does that have to the argument?  How does that fact change the fact that a privately owned telecom is, or is not a government enabled monopoly?

Explain to me why you think a privately owned telecom is government regulated monopoly when it has lots of local competition.

All privately-owned utility companies expect to deal with state and local regulators.

Yes.  But not the kind that would make Roberts argument stronger.  What regulations does a telecom utility have to deal with that makes your argument stronger?  Are you sure you know who’s side you are on??? 

Do we impinge on their profits?  Not at all! They approached us to use our land in order to make money. For that privilage, we recieve service fees. It’s a win/win situation.

Again, you are arguing my point.  Robert’s point is that the Telecom in question is a government enabled monopoly, that looses money due it it’s marxist nature. 

You just argued against him.  Thank you.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

Bat,

Wrong, of course, since you’ve demonstrated nothing, proved nothing, and actually did nothing beyond offer an accusation, based on personal partisan BS instead of any sort of proven or documented fact.

Scroll up for your facts, genius.

When you find the courage to do that, explain to me why a new CEO who looses over a 100 million in two years and then gets shown the door, deserved his money.  Especially, the 1.5 million he was paid to leave!

In this specific case, that I cited (hint, not Bill Gates, not GWB) this guy really didn’t deserve his money.  The fact that you don’t accept it means nothing.  The facts have been laid out weather you admit it or not.

To say that someone does or does not deserve something… anything… is a subjective judgment.

I won’t argue that point.  You are 100% correct.  Now show me where my judgement is off.  Show me how this CEO, who lost over 100 million in two years deserved the millions he was paid. 

For example, does Alex Rodriguez deserve $30 million per year?  Does Bill Gates deserve to be worth $55 billion?

Don’t know about Alex, but Bill certainly does.  Microsoft continues to enjoy great profits under his leadership.

Does the state of Israel deserve to survive?  Did George W. Bush deserve to be president?

Obviously, its not just your conclusions that are wrong, but your entire thought process (if that’s really the correct description!)

Well of course it would seem like that to you, when you attribute crazy notions to specific examples I never argued.

What are you talking about??

Nowhere in federal tax law does it say that taxes are to apportioned based on the presumption (wrong-headed and unsubstantiated) that some people may not deserve what they are paid. 

You are correct again, but what does that have to do with this particular CEO?

That’s the sort of childish blather that marks the Left’s approach to punishing those with the temerity to disagree.  But it is neither legal nor rational.

You created your own strawman, then knocked it down.  Congratulations.

This particular CEO didn’t deserve his millions, when he failed in Hawaii…he left the state and headed for the hills.  There are more slime weasels like him….tax them and I wont have a guilty conscience.  Trust me.

I’m interested in the fact that you’ve once again refused to address the fundamental question of why increase taxes when it has been shown that doing so has an adverse effect on the nation’s economic growth.

Ah, now you are finally getting to the point.  Your analysts agree with you but do you agree there are other analysts who agree with Obama’s tax plan?  Or do you simply think he is going against all economists for the sake of argument? 

You do, don’t you?  The stupidity of your argument astounds me.  How does it feel Bat?

There is one final reason - well known to economists - that more tax breaks to the rich might not help the economy. If you give them more money, they may do less: The rich may just retire early, satisfied that they had all the wealth they needed.

A long range of experts, from Douglas Holtz-Eakin, the current director of the Congressional Budget Office and former Bush advisor, to the investor Warren Buffet, have presented the case that cutting taxes for the wealthy will not increase growth. Lacking evidence, like the Bakkers, President Bush prefers that we accept his tax cut on faith.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-columns/op-eds-columns/tax-cut/prosperity-connection-pure-hooey/

Read the whole thing, they make my argument for me, using Jim and Tammy Baker as an example of people who make millions, but who might not necessarily deserve it.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

How about some meat?

http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2007/11/tax-rates-and-growth-rates-some-graphs.html

BTW… here’s what I’m seeing, to help those who want to tell us a story…

1. the first major cut in taxes seems to be in 1964, and then in 1965. That cut follows several years of increasing growth rates.

2. There’s a tax hike (70% to 75.25%) in LBJ’s last year… coinciding with fast growth. I don’t know when in the year that tax cut happened, but the following year (a year that Nixon also cut taxes) growth rates weren’t too hot, and they were worse the year after that.

3. Nixon had a few good years after his 1971 tax cuts bringing the top marginal rate back to 70%.

4. The next cut was a smidge in Reagan’s first year, and then from 69.5% to 50% in Reagan’s second year. There was a huge jump in real GDP per capita growth the next few years.

5. Reagan’s next two tax cuts - in 1987 and 1988 are accompanied by increases in the annual change in real GDP per capita. The next year, the first year after these tax cuts took effect, 1989, looks awful.

7. The year GHW’s tax hike, 1990, doesn’t look so good. But the tax hike was enacted as part of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 - in November (remember, one’s story must have some reasonable causality). The next year, the growth in real GDP per capita went from bad to worse.

8. Clinton also had an Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act - passed in August of 1993. That year, the growth rate dropped. The next year… it rose. It had another down year, and then stayed up.

9. GW had small cuts in the top rate in 2001 and 2002, and a bigger one in 2003. Growth was negative in 2001, tiny in 2002, and still somewhat small in 2003. 2004 was his best year, and growth rates have been drifting down since.

My best guess… same story I’ve told before… tax cuts may help when tax rates are too high. And they may help in the year immediately following the tax cut, but seem to be unmaintanable. (Presumably we can’t cut tax rates every year to eternity.)

One other thing… as tax rates have drifted lower, we’re also seeing more stability, but slower “fast” years. I suspect that’s more due to the Fed (I’ve had plenty of posts on the real MS growth and real GDP per capita) than tax rates though.

Instead of finding things to attack each other over, why don’t we find areas where we can agree, and find compromise long enough to take a step back and enjoy the recognition of our similarities? 

Then, we can take steps forward in a constructive way, together, to tackle the issues where we really do disagree.

I won’t argue that point. You are 100% correct. Now show me where my judgement is off.

Because it’s subjective.  You already had the answer, and weren’t bright enough to realize it.  Do you know what “subjective” means?  Your judgment only reflects your own level of knowledge, belief and emotion(whichever predominates) and so doesn’t apply to the real world; it’s just your imagination, like your convoluted little story.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!